Saving all your gear is a bit like an alcoholic trying to give up his addiction but keeping a bottle of whisky in the cupboard just in case. Too tempting. Its a lot easier to walk away from UO with no regrets if you have nothing to go back to.
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It's not a new thing. Anything can be abused. Of course they don't want it to happen. Please be sure to clarify if you mean running two UO's vs one person making their second account do something with a robotic program. Which would be attended macroing?
February 3, 2010 , 2D client patch 7.0.5.0 and, SA client patch 4.0.5.0 has been released. (from Japanese site) UO.com does not go that far back.
It becomes the-at the same time 2D client it possible to run multiple instances, but this is not a supported feature. If you try to start multiple 2D client, you will see the following warning window.
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Running two instances of Ultima Online at once IS an UNSUPPORTED feature. This Will not Work Correctly on some Systems, and IS not supported by Mythic Tech Support. Proceed?
February 3, 2010 , 2D client patch 7.0.5.0 and, SA client patch 4.0.5.0 has been released. (from Japanese site) UO.com does not go that far back.
It becomes the-at the same time 2D client it possible to run multiple instances, but this is not a supported feature. If you try to start multiple 2D client, you will see the following warning window.
-------------------------
Running two instances of Ultima Online at once IS an UNSUPPORTED feature. This Will not Work Correctly on some Systems, and IS not supported by Mythic Tech Support. Proceed?
Honestly shard shields are over rated. I'd rather just start a new character on a new shard any day of the week! It's a hell of a lot more exciting and challenging.I've been playing almost 14 years, just a few more months and my acct can finally use shard shields.
Yet each day I find it more a chore to want to log in and play UO. I find no fun in the simple things I used to love doing in game.
One of the things I still occasionally enjoyed were EM Events.
Now today I read that Mesanna herself is allowing multiboxing? Really?! Oh well.
I just might not make it to those long awaited shard shields after all.
Been there. It's time to step into some new ground. Start making a list of those things you haven't done in UO and start knocking them off. That will regain your desire and motivation to play. Before you say that you have done everything in UO, just know that none of us have... even though we might THINK we have. There is still much out there to accomplish. Start working on those things.I've been playing almost 14 years, just a few more months and my acct can finally use shard shields.
Yet each day I find it more a chore to want to log in and play UO. I find no fun in the simple things I used to love doing in game.
One of the things I still occasionally enjoyed were EM Events.
Now today I read that Mesanna herself is allowing multiboxing? Really?! Oh well.
I just might not make it to those long awaited shard shields after all.
Also make sure you are getting enough multi player interaction. Playing solo will kill the interest in UO for you.
Good bye. Best wishes.I've been playing almost 14 years, just a few more months and my acct can finally use shard shields.
Yet each day I find it more a chore to want to log in and play UO. I find no fun in the simple things I used to love doing in game.
One of the things I still occasionally enjoyed were EM Events.
Now today I read that Mesanna herself is allowing multiboxing? Really?! Oh well.
I just might not make it to those long awaited shard shields after all.
the problem with the multi accounts at events is the lag/crashes. it would be so great if everyone just used one account for events. its just going to get worse and worse. people have already have quit. theres already too many chars at most events. soon there will be so many chars at events, some peeps wont be able to move much, if at all lol. then they will quit. we will have about 20 -40 peeps using around 10 accounts lol. best to stop multi(s) now. wonder what kind of posts will appear on steam about uo. I feel the same bud and really cant believe what I see going on at events, 2 to 10 account, many are here in stratics just loving what mesanna has said about the subject. I also wish only 1 to 3 items drop per month per shard, then the drop would really mean something.
I dont understand..this isn't a new thing, people literally have been doing this for as long as events have been going on. It's not all of a sudden going to be a huge influx of it. Here's the deal, the people that currently don't multibox or multi client with a 3rd party program won't all of a sudden start. The 3rd party programs are still illegal no?
I've always had a res character follow me to events and sit in the back and res while my dragon or thrower went at it.
There's 40-50 people at some of these events, did you really think that many people still play?
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that was the whole point of the question at the meet and greet. Alot, and i mean alot of players do not mulitbox because mesanna has always said it was illegal and punishable. Now that her stance has changed to "um, dont do it, but we also wont enforce it" you can bet alot of players who didnt want to risk their accounts being banned will take advantage of the ease of multibox programs. 2-3 characters many people do manually. 5 - 10 account you pretty much need to multibox.
I think I get what she meant when she said Supreeme open it up to do this multi clients means you are able to play more the one account. Meaning yes you may multibox long as you do it manually, but not with a illegal 3rd party program. Seriously would make no sense to open up multiclients if you were not able to play more than one at a time.
no she said its legal if attended even if using a program. which is pretty lame. before it was illegal to use those programs at all, now just if you do it unattended.
: [Crystal] says: ok next question: I have been noticing lots of multiboxers at events and blatant cheaters.
: [Crystal] says: are these being policed at all or is something being done?
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: I have answered this question every time
: [Crystal] says: oh
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: Its a matter of catching them macroing at this point
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: if the GM’s catch them unattended they will action them
: [Crystal] says: ok so thats interesting. you say “unattended”
: [Crystal] says: the players may still be atteneded despite mirroring keyboard and mouse inputs across characters
: [Crystal] says: this is illegal is it not? controling multiple characters with single keyboard and mouse inputs
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: Since Supreeme put in the multi client option he opened the door to this
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: the only way we can action anyone is to get them macroing
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: at this time
: [Crystal] Bleak says: attended play of multiple accounts is not illegal
: [Crystal] says: what about using programs to mirror actions across clients
: [Crystal] says: with “atteneded” keystrokes
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: I will only say the only thing we can do is action against unattended macroing
: [Crystal] says: ok so its legal. roger
: [Crystal] says: last question
: [Crystal] says: can i get my masks dyed
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: dependsw on how late we are
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@Smoot
I realize and read what she said. I also think it's a huge misunderstanding. The consensus from what I'm seeing is that it's ok to multibox farm resources as well, as long as I watch my little nifty bots farm for me, and I highly doubt that's the case here. Considering you can't "multi box" without 3rd party aid. Supreem allowed multi clienting which yes opened that Pandora's box of multi boxing, it's seems out of context and misinterpreted as multi boxing is having an automated second client which is only achievable by 3rd party programs
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I realize and read what she said. I also think it's a huge misunderstanding. The consensus from what I'm seeing is that it's ok to multibox farm resources as well, as long as I watch my little nifty bots farm for me, and I highly doubt that's the case here. Considering you can't "multi box" without 3rd party aid. Supreem allowed multi clienting which yes opened that Pandora's box of multi boxing, it's seems out of context and misinterpreted as multi boxing is having an automated second client which is only achievable by 3rd party programs
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seems pretty specific to me. Honestly, if mesanna Still doesnt know what he means after he spelled it out like that, after being asked at about 5 meet and greets now and emailed for about 6 months, then we have bigger problems.
If this is what UO has come to, i think it might be time for me to find a game where rules are actually enforced as well. I realize in other games muliboxing can be totally legal, but the nature of UOs play is different from other games. Multiboxing / scripting in UO is a gamebreaker where in other games its only a slight advantage in a minority of situations.
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Multibixing is not simply running multiple clients at the same time, multiboxing, by its very nature, requires an illegal 3rd party program to replicate keystrokes and mouse movements. This allows multiple clients to be controlled by one keyboard and mouse, turning someone into their own mini army.
Mesanna KNOWS THIS.
Thee is no legal method of controlling (not talking about putting chars on autofollow) multiple clients at the same time unless you ran them on multiple machines and used a mouse in each hand. At any rate, this would still be just multiclienting, not multiboxing. The terms are not interchangeable.
@Mesanna @kryonix
Is "multi boxing" as it's been defined legal?
Only way to know if it was truly meant as using 3rd party illegal programs as "OK" to control a secondary account as long as attended. Or simply running two simultaneous accounts. Is to ask!
If in fact she does mean the latter and it is in fact OK to bot an account so to say..then yes that is a HUGE issue and is far from cool. At that point you might as well sanction scripting while attended. Just flat out say it, and spare us the the debate and agony of the beginning the coming carpal tunnel.
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Is "multi boxing" as it's been defined legal?
Only way to know if it was truly meant as using 3rd party illegal programs as "OK" to control a secondary account as long as attended. Or simply running two simultaneous accounts. Is to ask!
If in fact she does mean the latter and it is in fact OK to bot an account so to say..then yes that is a HUGE issue and is far from cool. At that point you might as well sanction scripting while attended. Just flat out say it, and spare us the the debate and agony of the beginning the coming carpal tunnel.
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@Mesanna needs to clarify this then, because from what she said at the meet and greet third party programs / multiboxing / scripting will not be policed or enforced unless unattended.
I completely agree!
I probably should have clarified the 'Mesanna KNOWS THIS!' line with "But she's apparently forgotten..."
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: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: I will only say the only thing we can do is action against unattended macroing
: [Crystal] says: ok so its legal. roger
That last bit was NOT Mesanna...in no way, shape or form did she ever say the words *IT IS LEGAL TO MULTIBOX*
I don't know where you people are coming up with that.
Read all that again...and again...do you see anywhere where she said it was legal?
No she didn't answer the question to the degree we all wanted her to answer it....but she never said it was legal.
: [Crystal] says: ok so its legal. roger
That last bit was NOT Mesanna...in no way, shape or form did she ever say the words *IT IS LEGAL TO MULTIBOX*
I don't know where you people are coming up with that.
Read all that again...and again...do you see anywhere where she said it was legal?
No she didn't answer the question to the degree we all wanted her to answer it....but she never said it was legal.
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She didn't have to say those exact words. "The only thing we can do is action against unattended macroing" implies that the legality itself is irrelevant. It might as well be legal because they aren't going to do anything about it.
When asked point blank if multiboxing was legal, with it described by the questioner, she gave a non-answer. More importantly, she didn't contradict when someone said "ok so its legal".
So it's wide open. The actual legality is irrelevant.
Honestly, if you're feeling like the game isn't fun any more, continuing to log in even occasionally is likely to make you feel worse not better. If you're asking the question you need at least a holiday from UO to see if your enthusiasm returns. Especially if you keep an account or more open for a long period and barely actually want to play the game. Or you fall into the pattern of keeping accounts open to keep a house and you feel obliged to keep playing this game you actually aren't enjoying right now. I did that for years!
The best thing I did was pack my important stuff in the bank and drop my houses. Then I could activate an account when I actually wanted to play, ,maybe place a house for that month and be a tourist visitor! Do random silly things and step right out of the obsession of the UO arms/equipment race and just do things for fun/relaxation. I come back when there is content I want to play. Then I know I can stop the sub at the end of that month and return when I need a UO fix in the future. Once I'd quit for a few months and didn't have to worry about a UO house, I just found myself enjoying a range of other games instead.
I think it's better to step away from the game before you get so sick of UO that you never want to see it again. Friends rarely want you to quit but they can keep in touch in other ways. I used to be someone who said "no! don't go!" but now I understand that it's better to all play different games and stay in touch outside UO. I don't want someone playing the game if they aren't really having fun. Or worse if they stay just to make me happy.
Wenchy
The best thing I did was pack my important stuff in the bank and drop my houses. Then I could activate an account when I actually wanted to play, ,maybe place a house for that month and be a tourist visitor! Do random silly things and step right out of the obsession of the UO arms/equipment race and just do things for fun/relaxation. I come back when there is content I want to play. Then I know I can stop the sub at the end of that month and return when I need a UO fix in the future. Once I'd quit for a few months and didn't have to worry about a UO house, I just found myself enjoying a range of other games instead.
I think it's better to step away from the game before you get so sick of UO that you never want to see it again. Friends rarely want you to quit but they can keep in touch in other ways. I used to be someone who said "no! don't go!" but now I understand that it's better to all play different games and stay in touch outside UO. I don't want someone playing the game if they aren't really having fun. Or worse if they stay just to make me happy.
Wenchy
This has already been addressed several times on Uhall. Go back and search the threads (Do your own search).
You guys are making more of this than there is.
How many time does Mesanna need to address it!? Once a week? Twice a week? Once a month?
No form of botting or automating of tasks is allowed, or condoned...period.
Running Multiple clients is allowed. Clearing having multiple clients is allowed since you can do so with the EC client without any warning or prompting.
So as Dot Warner states there is a different of Multi-Clienting and Multiboxing.
It's really not that hard to understand.
As for S_S.
Good riddance....oh and can I have your stuff?
You guys are making more of this than there is.
How many time does Mesanna need to address it!? Once a week? Twice a week? Once a month?
No form of botting or automating of tasks is allowed, or condoned...period.
Running Multiple clients is allowed. Clearing having multiple clients is allowed since you can do so with the EC client without any warning or prompting.
So as Dot Warner states there is a different of Multi-Clienting and Multiboxing.
It's really not that hard to understand.
As for S_S.
Good riddance....oh and can I have your stuff?
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Pretty sure everyone is mad because her saying they can't punish people unless they see them cheating personally is the same as a real life police officer saying "robbing stores isn't illegal unless I see you robbing them personally".
Sorry @HoneythornGump, you couldn't afford my stuff.
@Mesanna won't. Her answers were left vague like that on purpose in attempts to retain as many accounts as possible. Not taking action against blatant cheaters (against their own TOS) is the absolute worst stance to have. I've seen far too many players quit from this and something really needs to be decided one way or the other. Either say these programs are legal or start taking actions against the obvious players using it. What she doesn't realize is that this grey area she has created is causing more people to quit than if she just decided one way or the other.
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The problem with this, is that it has been taking 5+ days on average to get a GM to show up to help with anything, whether it be deleting something or responding to a harassment page, and by then the person that got paged on is long gone and all proof that it ever happened has disappeared, making it impossible for the GM's to do anything when they do eventually show up.
That's because they've banned so many accounts for scripting and multi-boxing...
Due to the loss of that revenue they had to lay off a few GMs.
She DIDN'T say it was legal, she DID say it was not going to be policed by GM UNLESS it was unattended.
: [Crystal] PLAYER says: what about using programs to mirror actions across clients
: [Crystal] PLAYER says: with “atteneded” keystrokes
: [Crystal] Lady Mesanna says: I will only say the only thing we can do is action against unattended macroing
WABES
Who cares. It's been legal by default and her words just say as much.
I think the problem is they can't detect what 3rd party programs people are using so it must be hard for them to take action. If they could detect them already then they would be gone by now (the players using them).
thing is, in the specific case of multiboxing, action could be taken extremely easily. date / time of when mulitboxers show up is posted publicly (every EM event) and its extremely easy to visually identify for anyone familiar with standard game mechanics vrs third party manipulated characters. Its just laziness / fear of banning a few cheater accounts. 1hour a week. 1 ban a week and im sure the vast majority of multiboxers would go back to playing within tos.
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Sadly, it's not 'can't', it's 'won't'..... and it's not just macroing, attended or unattended, or multi-clienting, or multiboxing or any other form of words people care to use - it's simply anything across the entire range of cheating, disrupting, rule breaking...
Been noticeable for a long time the words about all this stuff did not match customer's first-hand experience of what was going on, it's just gradually becoming more blatant now that there's barely even a pretence of enforcing anything, we'll just see another made-up excuse why they 'can't' do anything.
I totally agree Smoot and I have seen people use it with my own eyes and there is even YouTube videos that show them in action.
The trouble is I guess they can't just ban someone if it "looks" like they are cheating without any actual evidence that can prove they are running these naughty programs.
We all know what is going on, the devs know what is going on but they just cant enforce it.
Mesanna should just say it as it is. Not try and hide the problem away and give out vague information.
The trouble is I guess they can't just ban someone if it "looks" like they are cheating without any actual evidence that can prove they are running these naughty programs.
We all know what is going on, the devs know what is going on but they just cant enforce it.
Mesanna should just say it as it is. Not try and hide the problem away and give out vague information.
Terrible advice
Well, I can understand it if UO truly is a harmful addiction for you and you can't control it - I hope most of us have been able to set limits
No, it's been specifically said that multiboxing is not legal, "by default" or otherwise. I'll give some Mesanna some credit. What she said wasn't that it's legal (that was someone else's erroneous conclusion), just that there are problems enforcing it.
"Multiboxing is not illegal but Macroing is, and this is considered macroing in UO. If you observe a player using multiboxing please report them and CS will investigate the report, per the TOS." - Mesanna, April 27, 2011
Quoting something she said nearly 4 years ago and nothing has been done about it says worse things than just arguing about the whole topic. The fact is this has been on the radar for 4 years....end of story.
Nice backtracking from your claim of "legal by default." The policy hasn't been changed, and whether or not it's being enforced, it's still the rules. At least it tells legitimate players that there is a limit, even if it's self-enforced as a matter of honor, otherwise the rest of us would throw up our hands and follow the cheaters.
I would not do that... but I must ask WTF good are rules if they are not enforced? That's like if we fired all the cops. What do you think would happen to stores and everyone on the planet if suddenly the laws were not enforced?
It's like saying ok well it's against the law to shoplift but if you do it ... well we won't do anything about it unless we "see" you do it. So even though we have you on camera and 5 other shoppers saw you put that hat on and walk out of the store... we didn't "see" you do it ..... so it's ok.
I share the sentiment, and it's the lack of enforcement that dismays me. Personal honor, satisfaction that we aren't cheating, can go only so far. Most of my original PvP friends quit 10-11 years ago, not because WoW was so much better, but because they'd rather play WoW (or just quit UO) because of all the cheating in UO. I have no doubt most would still be playing if EA had taken a firmer stand on all the exploits.
I have to agree with Malag. If the rules aren't enforced, they they're worthless. 'Self-enforced as a matter of honor' has gotten us to the sad state we're in now. IT DOESN'T WORK.
- Resource scripters are still rampant (random resource generation only hurts legit players)
- Botting of high-end content such as Blackthorn's still happens (auto reveal only hampered part of the issue)
-Multiboxing at events is highly likely to increase.
- RMT sites still in operation and leaching off the game
She said all that they would enforce is unattended macroing. So, what, someone training a skill somewhere? That's the least of the cheating at this point.
How would someone feel if the police suddenly said that they wouldn't go after muggers or drunk drivers anymore, but would go after jay walkers?
By saying they won't enforce all the rules, she kicked the door off the hinges so the cheaters can take over.
- Resource scripters are still rampant (random resource generation only hurts legit players)
- Botting of high-end content such as Blackthorn's still happens (auto reveal only hampered part of the issue)
-Multiboxing at events is highly likely to increase.
- RMT sites still in operation and leaching off the game
She said all that they would enforce is unattended macroing. So, what, someone training a skill somewhere? That's the least of the cheating at this point.
How would someone feel if the police suddenly said that they wouldn't go after muggers or drunk drivers anymore, but would go after jay walkers?
By saying they won't enforce all the rules, she kicked the door off the hinges so the cheaters can take over.
This is a video game. Lets all take a step back and remember that.
It's an analogy. Lets all take a step back and ignore those throwing out straw men to confuse the issue.
Unattended is ALL they can detect. Simply put, we all had our chance at punkbuster to end all of this but when the time came people bucked the idea.
I don't like the idea of multiboxers but I also don't like the idea of giving GMs the power to ban without solid proof either.
Analogies usually relate to each other. Trying to relate/compare a video game TOS enforcement or lack thereof to our criminal justice system is the definition of throwing straw men.
Hey guys, remember that phrase about "gameplay experience may change-yadayadayada...
That's why I said it only goes so far. The rest of us won't cross the line we've been told, knowing there seems to be no penalty. But at a certain point, players see so much that they cancel accounts, or some throw up their hands and start breaking the rules themselves. EA didn't care enough 10 years ago when there were extremely bad exploits, not just speedhacking, and I doubt they'll start now because it could be significant account losses. It's a shame because the game might have been saved for legitimate players some time back, if EA hadn't been so short-sighted in turning a blind eye for the sake of revenue.
It's to the point people macro unattended at banks, which used to be a stoning offense. Multiboxing shouldn't be hard to notice at EM events or in PvP if a GM will just take the time, but how many GMs are around these days, and how busy are they? (With the reduced player base, I can't imagine there are too many calls that legitimately need a GM's intervention.) How are they prioritizing calls?