Such mobs tend to require that sampires and others also be healed by magical means. It's still an investment in points that non-tamer templates generally make.
-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
State of UO address, just one word : R-E-P-T-A-L-O-N-S !!
That's how it should be. There are mobs that my bard isn't allowed to peace,provoke,or discord by rule of game mechanics. It's called balance.
No no you do not understand, we tamers have to be able to take on all content with our All Kill Greater Dragon or else it just isn't fair!!!
Is there a pet vevamp ideas thread or has this thread become it?
Out of curiosity, how many MoBs are in UO that a dexer (Sampire or variations of) or a ranged template (thrower or archer or variations of) cannot engage with ? Way less then what tamers cannot fight..........
Just by looking at what templates players prefer to use in PvM it looks quite clear at least to me that Tamers are not any longer a much viable PvM template (when hunting high end MoBs) but dexers or ranged characters instead are.........
Balance to me means that there should be an equal (or close to that) number of high end MoBs (Bosses) that Tamers, Dexers, Archers/Throwers/Bards/Spellcasters etc should be able to fight or not fight.
Unfortunately, it is my perception that when it comes to PvM, Tamers have way more disadvantages in fighting high end MoBs then Sampires etc, Archers etc. Throwers etc.
And the point is not to just shelf Tamers and that all UO Tamers go make a Sampire etc. an Archer etc. or a Thrower etc and go PvM with that because this would make UO monotonous with all players just pretty much using the same PvM template to maximize their hunting results.
Tthe point, IMHO, is buffing up Tamers so that once again players might be willing to use Tamers for their high end MoBs fights and not feel obliged to have to make a Sampire etc, an Archer etc. or a Trhower etc. for their PvM needs....
The short answer is that YES, IMHO, Taming does need, as things are today in UO, a sound revamp and a buffing up of pets' ability to fight high end MoBs and Reptalons and Skrees should be top priorities.....
Last edited:
IMO since tamers are still the HARDEST skill set to work up and gain..... still take the most work to get trained.... sure I can buy a mythic token throw on some jewels and be "ok"... but to gain even from 90 to 120 is rough.... it ought to have better reward... Years ago it did. Now not so much.
As we've pointed out you really can't do a lot of the newer content as a tamer. Sure I can do Despise... but to try to do much in Shame or Wrong.... or Covetous..... no. We don't do mass damage to mass mobs.. don't do area effects... pretty much just make a tank so others can do more damage and take less damage...
As we've pointed out you really can't do a lot of the newer content as a tamer. Sure I can do Despise... but to try to do much in Shame or Wrong.... or Covetous..... no. We don't do mass damage to mass mobs.. don't do area effects... pretty much just make a tank so others can do more damage and take less damage...
I want to point out that technically the taming 'template' is half a template really. 360 points max. To compare that to,lets say a mage half-template of magery,eval int,and med. Those three skills would be woefully under-powered by itself if you tried to go deeper into a dungeon than maybe 3rd or 4th level. Melee? Haha no chance. Weapon skill,tactics for specials,and parry? Or maybe healing or chiv for healing? But without either focus or meditation,you'd have to lean heavily on mr imbued onto a suit.
Which brings me to another issue. Armor. To use a melee character requires a pretty buff suit to do well in the lower level of the dungeons and some champ spawns. While tamers have their pets as a meat shield,they get to be pimped out in 1,300+ luck suits that my melee toon could never get away with wearing.And now the OP is asking for an item/ability which would basically allow their greater dragon to have a persistent EoO triggered that costs no mana to use.
I am not against the tamer half-template getting some new 'toys' to play with,but let's use some common sense here. Each 'class' must have it's advantages and disadvantages. Seems to me that those who's main toon is a tamer wants to remove all the disadvantages under the guise of "We have earned it" because it's hard to gain taming. I get it. It gets old taming bull after bull after bull at the Jhelom farm. But it's the same with poisoning and lockpicking. It's the nature of the beast that is UO.
Which brings me to another issue. Armor. To use a melee character requires a pretty buff suit to do well in the lower level of the dungeons and some champ spawns. While tamers have their pets as a meat shield,they get to be pimped out in 1,300+ luck suits that my melee toon could never get away with wearing.And now the OP is asking for an item/ability which would basically allow their greater dragon to have a persistent EoO triggered that costs no mana to use.
I am not against the tamer half-template getting some new 'toys' to play with,but let's use some common sense here. Each 'class' must have it's advantages and disadvantages. Seems to me that those who's main toon is a tamer wants to remove all the disadvantages under the guise of "We have earned it" because it's hard to gain taming. I get it. It gets old taming bull after bull after bull at the Jhelom farm. But it's the same with poisoning and lockpicking. It's the nature of the beast that is UO.
How about then fighters getting 1,000 Luck from perfection ?
Well, I have well clear what the disadvantages to Taming currently are, quite a lot of the high end MoBs are a no-no to tamers...
It is unclear to me what the disadvantages in todays UO are for dexers (Sampires and the like) or ranged characters (ABC Archers and the like and Throwers and the like).....
Now, if we want balance we either need to increase the disadvantages for dexers and ranged characters OR increase the advantages for Tamers....
Now, which way do we want to go ?
Nerf dexers and ranged characters more or leave them as they are and instead BUFF Tamers to reach the same appeal as dexers and ranged characters?
As a player who plays a whole range of tempaltes, I'm going to have to side with Dag Nabbit on this one. Tamers don't need buffing. The pet revamp shouldn't be about making tamers stronger but allowing tamers the opportunity to be more unique in the pets they hunt with. These days with the proper training program (ie training only taming, no other skills on the list to keep your total skill points as low as possible) I can GM taming in three days if I work really diligently at it. It takes much longer these days to put a proper suit of equipment together which will let my warriors somewhat compete with what my tamers can do and that is on top of training up the warrior.
Not all melee templates include the samurai skill. Even if they did,the 1,000 luck is not persistent.
You want the tamer half-template to be all-powerful? Your greater dragon is already the best at tanking,which was it's purpose. Now you want it to be able to nuke any mob? How is that fair?
From having to balance stats and mods on my suits to timing AI's and other specials that cost mana so I don't burn through my limited mana pool too quickly. Also meleers get hit. A lot. We don't get to hide under the belly of our dragon and cry when a mob uses an AoE that damages us as well.
We already have balance. Tamers are fine how they are,right along with bards that can't bard some mobs,meleers that can't stand toe to toe with some mobs(even as a sampire),and casters that have their summoned elementals crushed or dispelled quickly by some mobs. Again it is my opinion that you want to remove any disadvantages to the tamer template and thus create a very overpowered 300-360 point half-template. If you honestly want to have that kind of 'easy button',there are plenty of Facebook games that would be a good fit.
News flash: they already can nuke most mobs. Balrons and Ancient Wyrms, which are pretty much the top of the food chain among regular enemies, require no/minimal healing; the greater I use most often can take 2 consecutive non-Paragon Balrons without even needing a single heal. Bosses are a different story, naturally, but they're not (usually) meant to be soloed...and if you do solo them, it takes forever.
Mana Leech. if it procs often enough, my sampire can just AI things endlessly. If it doesn't, I just switch to Lightning Strike spam, which lets me replenish my mana and potentially crit for damage comparable to AI. There's only a few things my sampire can't/won't solo: Rikktor, Corgul, Scalis, Slasher, and the Harrower/the True.
As far as stuff that uses AoE on a tamer: You do realize that each AoE attack has a range limit, right? Learn what the range is and stand outside it. I can't even remember the last time I used the Veterinary skill in a combat situation.
News flash for all of you... What a Greater Dragon can do any mage/archer/dexer can do 10x FASTER. I can kill a Balron easily on any dexer or mage... Takes a dragon awhile to kill it. I can do a Balron on my archer in almost one shot... maybe 2... Besides which WHO THE HECK HUNTS THOSE?? What would be the point??? Ok maybe with the new loot items it "might" be worthwhile but that's pushing it..... TRUTH of the matter is that the things people DO hunt now and need to hunt to make a living and get by are NOT things a tamer can do solo most times. They are stuff that Sampires etc... might solo but NOT a tamer. Even taking a tamer to do most the things in the Abyss is not possible... THIS is what we are arguing about.... THIS is why taming needs an overhaul. I don't want to have to play the game on my Sampire..... I love my taming. I love my pets.
Reptalons are horrible... they need help. Skree are the biggest disappointment in the game... I want a Fairy Dragon! We need pets that can survive some of this stuff.... I don't want to be limited to a Greater Dragon. Could you imagine how much nicer it would be to attend an EM event and have Tamers with Skree instead of Greaters? Tiny little Skree? Wouldn't that be better??? I would be ok with them taking the 5 slots if they didn't suck.
I only know that because of Blackthorn, when the Balron respawns after I lure it away (it'll chill for a couple hours, then go poof); my sampire kills a normal HP Balron in Blackthorn in 5 hits (I could probably do it in less, but my temp & suit aren't geared to do that)
A Greater Dragon, on the other hand? My sampire's AI's cap out at 159 damage if I have a slayer weap and EoO active. On VERY rare occasions, she (stupid Semidar...) can hit for 190. My mystic mage outdamages even my sampire, just by wearing 42% SDI (the Kasa of the Ra-jin, Compassion's Eye, Protector of Battle Mage, and Pendant of Magi) and using a lesser slayer spellbook: a few nights ago in Destard, I was testing the damage output of Hailstorm on the way in, and I got 230+ on normal dragons, a max of 181 on a greater (unknown resist, since I couldn't lore), and 120-ish on Rikktor (before he was disco'd), and hitting similar #s (in comparison to the greater) after discord.
My Archer Malag does 222 damage to most mobs he has slayers for. Sometimes if it's discorded he can do 248 ...... a Greater does max about 60 to 75 damage with firebreath...... otherwise it's generally about 15 to 35 damage per hit. NOTHING like my warriors. Greater Dragons are only used most often because they have HIGH HP and don't die in 2 seconds flat like a Rune Beetle or CuSidhe will to such things.... and if you miss a bandage they won't fail and die. If you miss a heal for just a second on a Rune Beetle or Dread or something it's dead. Skree while they are decent HP wise do like 12 damage at most... they are pathetic. Certainly NOT worth the slots they command same with the reptalon....... and the reptalon will die in the drop of a hat.
I'm with a lot of others in that I would LOVE to have a BIG cat ..... Large tiger.... or something BIG enough to ride like CuSidhe... And I personally want to be able to tame Dread Spiders and Black Widows.... would love to have a big Sentinal Spider as a pet.
I feel like people in here are so ignorant to how templates work.
Yes the warrior and mage do more damage than your dragon.
Think about this way.
Tamer = At the highest around 240 skill investment, 120 taming/120 lore. Add/minus because you don't need both max to control a gdrag the strongest pet. Throw in another 120 for Vet to get healing.
If you take out vet, with a 240 skill point investment out of a 720 skill cap, you get a huge benefit of getting a super tanky pet. That is 33% of your skillcap and you get something really strong.
If we are assuming equal grounds for mage, 120 Mage, 120 Eval, throw in 120 Med to keep casting. Thats 360 skill point investment. Thats half of your skill cap 50%. A mage can not solo the same content a tamer can do with the exact skill investment, tamers are stronger in this aspect. A 360 skill point mage stands no chance against most content.
A dexxer of equal grounds, 120 Weapon Skill 120 Tactics then 120 Chiv/Healing/Etc. 50% skill point investment, will not stand a chance against most things unless geared to the brim.
A sampire/whammy/good dexxer in PvE has to invest all 720 of his skillpoints to make his template work. 240 for weapon/tactics. Maybe 100-120 for Bushido for the damage bonus. 120-240 for Healing/Anatomy. Maybe 100-120 for Chiv to get some healing and a huge damage bonus. On top of all that they need the gear to back it up. There are several factors to making a dexxer work.
Same with a mage, you don't see people running a 360 template mage/eval/med to do high end content. They invest in other skills like Mysticism for the summons/survivability, Spellweaving for the low hp Nuke and survivability, Necromancy/SpiritSpeak for the mana leech and aoe and the sorts. A high end mage needs to invest all 720 of their skills to be able to survive in end game. Gear as well.
Now for a tamer, 33% of a skillcap should not be able to by itself solo all content. If a gdrag could survive or solo things like Slasher then it would be op. No 240 skill point investment should be able to do anything by itself. People invest 240 points for Music/Bardskill and they have those 240 nullified for some high end bosses who can't be discorded or the sorts. Mystic Mages lose 240 skill points of effectiveness if the boss suddenly dispels their summon. Necromages 240 skill points of effectiveness if the boss can't be strangled to effect with pain spike to lower their spam or they have no mana to leech through wraith form.
So to sum it all up, yes shut up and accept that you can't invest 240 skill points and have those 240 skill points give you the ability to solo/take on all content. Buff weaker pets to make them interesting and not just tank/damage soakers like gdrags are.
Yes the warrior and mage do more damage than your dragon.
Think about this way.
Tamer = At the highest around 240 skill investment, 120 taming/120 lore. Add/minus because you don't need both max to control a gdrag the strongest pet. Throw in another 120 for Vet to get healing.
If you take out vet, with a 240 skill point investment out of a 720 skill cap, you get a huge benefit of getting a super tanky pet. That is 33% of your skillcap and you get something really strong.
If we are assuming equal grounds for mage, 120 Mage, 120 Eval, throw in 120 Med to keep casting. Thats 360 skill point investment. Thats half of your skill cap 50%. A mage can not solo the same content a tamer can do with the exact skill investment, tamers are stronger in this aspect. A 360 skill point mage stands no chance against most content.
A dexxer of equal grounds, 120 Weapon Skill 120 Tactics then 120 Chiv/Healing/Etc. 50% skill point investment, will not stand a chance against most things unless geared to the brim.
A sampire/whammy/good dexxer in PvE has to invest all 720 of his skillpoints to make his template work. 240 for weapon/tactics. Maybe 100-120 for Bushido for the damage bonus. 120-240 for Healing/Anatomy. Maybe 100-120 for Chiv to get some healing and a huge damage bonus. On top of all that they need the gear to back it up. There are several factors to making a dexxer work.
Same with a mage, you don't see people running a 360 template mage/eval/med to do high end content. They invest in other skills like Mysticism for the summons/survivability, Spellweaving for the low hp Nuke and survivability, Necromancy/SpiritSpeak for the mana leech and aoe and the sorts. A high end mage needs to invest all 720 of their skills to be able to survive in end game. Gear as well.
Now for a tamer, 33% of a skillcap should not be able to by itself solo all content. If a gdrag could survive or solo things like Slasher then it would be op. No 240 skill point investment should be able to do anything by itself. People invest 240 points for Music/Bardskill and they have those 240 nullified for some high end bosses who can't be discorded or the sorts. Mystic Mages lose 240 skill points of effectiveness if the boss suddenly dispels their summon. Necromages 240 skill points of effectiveness if the boss can't be strangled to effect with pain spike to lower their spam or they have no mana to leech through wraith form.
So to sum it all up, yes shut up and accept that you can't invest 240 skill points and have those 240 skill points give you the ability to solo/take on all content. Buff weaker pets to make them interesting and not just tank/damage soakers like gdrags are.
You have no devensive skill you can not break agro you can not heal yourself or your pet what are you possibly going to do with a 240 tamer if I only can choose 2 skills it would be magery and eval
*facepalm*
I give up. Read the whole post or grow a brain. The point is 240/360 skillpoints should not be able to do everything for you, which is what people are saying in this topic when they want their gdrags buffed.
My brain is just fine but thx for your concern but you are wrong the mana and time you invest in healing your pet for the little dmg it does is not worth it it is much better to go with mystisicm or a sampire
So,ya'll are saying that you want your 300-360 point investment in taming to equal my 700-720 point investment in a sampire template or you'll consider it as not balanced?
No I am saying i want a 720m tamer template that is almost as good as a warrior of today vs the new mobs with 80/ all resist and area dmg that looks to be the norm of all new monsters as of now there is no tamer template that come even close if you ask me how to make tamers on pair with warriors again it would be to lower the resist on monsters back to the lvl it was 6-7 years ago
for a long time tamers was at pair with warriors because the monsters had lower resist but now it is not even funny to spend every single pice of mana on healing your pet because it take so much dmg and then it dishes out 15 dmg in return/hit
YES.
And you know why ?
Because who cares whether X or Y or Z skill points are invested, what matters is the END RESULT which is getting the darn Boss dead in the same time a dexer or an archer or a thrower or a spellcaster can kill it ....
If this CANNOT be achieved by tamers for most Bosses as it is now (but it can be by Sampires etc. Archers etc. Throwers etc. Spellcasters etc.) REGARDLESS of how many skill points the tamers have invested, the end result is that Tamers are left out from hunting high end Bosses WHILE THE OTHER TEMPLATES CAN !
Period.
Want to introduce another taming skill or 2 to make dexers or ranged or spellcasters feel better ?
Fine, do it.
The bottom line issue is that Tamers want to ALSO BE ABLE TO HUNT HIGH END BOSSES LIKE OTHER TEMPLATES CAN DO.
THIS is the issue.
I would not give a damn to have to train another taming skill or 2 if that will give my tamer the same ability to hunt high end game as dexers, ranged characters or spellcasters (this means killing high end Bosses in their way, but WAY shorter times....).
So, my message to the Developers is do whatever you want to Taming but the end result MUST BE to give to tamers the SAME EXACT ABILITY to hunt high end Bosses which other templates like dexers, ranged characters or spellcaster currently have.
THIS IS BALANCE IMHO.
Last edited:
If you want to talk balance,then this is what should be done. Require dex to quickly apply a bandage to your pet,just like I have to do on my warrior.Vet alone should not be good enough by itself to quickly heal a pet for a good amount of HP. Locking your dex at 10 shouldn't be an option for the tamer. Intelligence-The tamer should be smart enough to command a dragon,for example,and have mental dominion over said pet.It should also cost the tamer mana each time they command their pet to "all kill".
It costs my mage mana for each summon spell that is cast,and my summons,even the RC,can not tank near as well as the greater dragon,so the tamer should have to think through what else besides the three skills they will add to their half-template and what they will add to their armor besides luck.
If we are really going to get into 'balancing' the game,then the Developers should just reduce all required skill sets to one or two skills of a max of 240 points.
Tamer: Taming and Lore. Lore would grant bandage heals.
Melee: Weapon skill,which would allow for that character to use all melee type weapons,excluding bows and throwing weapons if it's a gargoyle.A secondary skill would allow for some customization. The secondary skill options would be healing,chivalry,necro,mysticism,spellweaving,magery, ect,ect. The same list would fit into a caster template as well.Choose wisely.
Crafter: This template would be reduced down to one skill of a max 120 points and would include all of the following skills. Blacksmithing,tinkering,tailoring,imbuing,carpentry,inscription,alchemy,fletching/bowyer and cartography. The name of the skill would simply be called "Makes Stuff".
Lets look at this another way,Popps. If the tamer half-template does get the buff that you want,lets take a look at what a possible full template would look like.
1) Taming 120
2) Lore 120
3) Vet 120 (Some tamers do not use vet,I have been told,but I'll leave it in for this example.)
4) Magery 120
5) Eval Int 120
6) Meditation 120
So this half-template leaves me with at least 360 points to put elsewhere. The typical template has the magery,eval int and meditation skill along with the three tamer skills. This is truly a solid template that can hold it's own against most anything. But the thing is that from what I have seen is that those that use a tamer and a greater dragon will macro 'all kill' and just stand there and watch,and heal when required. When I play my tamer,I count myself as the secondary damager. I send in my pet and start spamming ebolts,or the best direct damage spell for the situation. Why I don't see this with other tamers is beyond my understanding. It's no wonder that it takes longer to kill anything,when the only thing that's delivering the hits is your pet(s).
~~~
The next addition to the three tamer skills is my favorite because I have always been a fan of the necro's reanimate spell. I use this when I know I'll be hunting dragons. The reanimate spell targeted on a dragon brings up a skeletal dragon which is pretty strong in it's own right. Along with my greater dragon,I can have up to three reanimated skeletal dragons that fight for me. Damage from three different sources. My greater dragon,the three skeletal dragons and me casting wither while holding a dragon slayer book. I can't lose.
4) Necro 100-120
5) Spirit Speak 100
6) Resist Spells 120
~~~
This next possible addition to the three tamer skills is an archer set. I haven't played this template,so I can't say much about it. But I'd making it something like this.Again I'd count myself as the secondary damager. Send in my pet,hit EoO and consecrate weapon and start firing.Only stop attacking and vet if your pet gets into trouble.
4) Archery 120
5) Tactics 100-120
6) Chivalry 80
7) Meditation 80(?) I'd still look to add a good amount of mr on my suit with or w/o the meditation.
~~~
The next one is also a favorite of mine. I use mysticism along with taming. With a couple of pretty good AoE spells along with my greater dragon or a beetle/mare combo,it's a rare thing if I get in over my head with a mob unless other players lure too many toward my direction.
4) Mysticism 120
5) Focus 120
6) Med or Resist Spells 120
So in conclusion,tamers should not depend solely upon their pets to do the damage. All of us are given 720 points to play with so use them to the fullest. 360 points should never be as powerful as 720 points. Ever. We have balance in the game even if you don't think so. Broaden your field of view on how you play this game,and the tamer half-template and don't limit yourself to "all kill" and just standing there.
Yes,my mystic mage can out-damage your dragon. And your dragon can out-tank any of my summons. That's really how it should be. My mystic mage is a glass cannon,while I could drop a castle on your dragon and it'd look at me like "Is that all you've got?"
1) Taming 120
2) Lore 120
3) Vet 120 (Some tamers do not use vet,I have been told,but I'll leave it in for this example.)
4) Magery 120
5) Eval Int 120
6) Meditation 120
So this half-template leaves me with at least 360 points to put elsewhere. The typical template has the magery,eval int and meditation skill along with the three tamer skills. This is truly a solid template that can hold it's own against most anything. But the thing is that from what I have seen is that those that use a tamer and a greater dragon will macro 'all kill' and just stand there and watch,and heal when required. When I play my tamer,I count myself as the secondary damager. I send in my pet and start spamming ebolts,or the best direct damage spell for the situation. Why I don't see this with other tamers is beyond my understanding. It's no wonder that it takes longer to kill anything,when the only thing that's delivering the hits is your pet(s).
~~~
The next addition to the three tamer skills is my favorite because I have always been a fan of the necro's reanimate spell. I use this when I know I'll be hunting dragons. The reanimate spell targeted on a dragon brings up a skeletal dragon which is pretty strong in it's own right. Along with my greater dragon,I can have up to three reanimated skeletal dragons that fight for me. Damage from three different sources. My greater dragon,the three skeletal dragons and me casting wither while holding a dragon slayer book. I can't lose.
4) Necro 100-120
5) Spirit Speak 100
6) Resist Spells 120
~~~
This next possible addition to the three tamer skills is an archer set. I haven't played this template,so I can't say much about it. But I'd making it something like this.Again I'd count myself as the secondary damager. Send in my pet,hit EoO and consecrate weapon and start firing.Only stop attacking and vet if your pet gets into trouble.
4) Archery 120
5) Tactics 100-120
6) Chivalry 80
7) Meditation 80(?) I'd still look to add a good amount of mr on my suit with or w/o the meditation.
~~~
The next one is also a favorite of mine. I use mysticism along with taming. With a couple of pretty good AoE spells along with my greater dragon or a beetle/mare combo,it's a rare thing if I get in over my head with a mob unless other players lure too many toward my direction.
4) Mysticism 120
5) Focus 120
6) Med or Resist Spells 120
So in conclusion,tamers should not depend solely upon their pets to do the damage. All of us are given 720 points to play with so use them to the fullest. 360 points should never be as powerful as 720 points. Ever. We have balance in the game even if you don't think so. Broaden your field of view on how you play this game,and the tamer half-template and don't limit yourself to "all kill" and just standing there.
Yes,my mystic mage can out-damage your dragon. And your dragon can out-tank any of my summons. That's really how it should be. My mystic mage is a glass cannon,while I could drop a castle on your dragon and it'd look at me like "Is that all you've got?"
How about a craftable pet collar that you can then imbue just like a weapon or piece of armor. That way you could add a slayer property and a DCI or MR or any other property up to the imbuing weight limit.
Debatable whether you should have to axe it off like swampy armor or just swap it like any other weapon/armor piece.
Debatable whether you should have to axe it off like swampy armor or just swap it like any other weapon/armor piece.
I feel that adding a slayer property to any pet,especially a greater dragon,would be a mistake. I would equate it to my non-tamer characters getting a single piece of armor that grants 1,000 to 1,200 hit points and 85 to 90 resist in each element. Yeah it would be sweet to have,but so very overpowered to the point of being broken.
It is my opinion that the Developers should really look into pet breeding as a way to buff the tamer half-template. True customization is what we should see in pet creation. It would be awesome to see a bred Ice Dragon(WW) with the same stats and resists,minus the fire resist,of a greater dragon. But getting back to my main point,I think a tamer buff is in order,but that doesn't mean that existing pets should suddenly become a lot more powerful,just more interesting and worth while without being broken.
Contrary to a Dexer or Ranged who can "leech back" dex and mana while fighting and damaging the target, a Tamer cannot.
Yet, according to what you said, a tamer would need high dex (to vet efficiently) AND high mana (to heal the pet in those cases vetting is not possible for area effect spells) AND of course decently high strength to stay alive when hit by side spawn or in those cases where the MoB teleports the tamer to themselves...
With a CAP of 255 it looks to me hardly feasible for a Tamer to cover all 3 stats, high......
I prefer much more the current system with the 720 skill points CAP, it allows UO to be the wonderfull sandbox it is, allowing creativity to players to build up their templates out of a much wider variety of possible options.
I can also accept and live with some MoBs not being available to be hunted by certain templates so that players have to build up different templates to their favourite one if they want to hunt those particular high end MoBs which their favourite template cannot hunt, it also allows for much more variety and flexibility in UO.
What I do not like, is seeing some templates like dexers, ranged ones or spellcasters be able to hunt way more high end MoBs then what tamers can do. How many high end Bosses are in UO ? 30ish ? Well, of these 1/4 should not be huntable by tamers but it should by dexers, ranged characters or spellcasters; 1/4 should not be huntable by dexers but it should be by tamers, ranged characters or spellcasters; 1/4 should not be huntable by ranged characters but it should be by dexers, tamers or spellcasters and 1/4 should not be huntable by spellcasters but it should be by dexers, ranged characters or tamers.
This way, of the existing high end MoBs an equal share of them should be blocked to one of the given hunting templates but open to all others and so forth. Balance, IMHO.
The thing is, as I see it, that the damage that even a Greater Dragon can do to high end MoBs, is really minimal, currently.
Even with a little side help from a reduced mage or archer template (to pair the taming skills...), the combined damage cannot even get anywhere close to the output damage that a dedicated ranged character or spellcaster can do all buffed up to the purpose....
I am not sure about the necro and the use of skeletal dragons, never used it, but I tried Magery and did not notice any combined dsmage significant to reduce the killing time to that which other templates can achieve, when fighting high end MoBs.
The thing is, that those templates can achieve their extremely high output thanking to honoring, dedicated modifiers and so forth which templates cannot do.
Personally, I have no doubt that taming needs love from developers, and a lot of it......
I have to plan out and wisely divide the points between my three stats on my sampire,so why does a tamer get a pass on this? Starting with AoS,when meleer's started needing to incorporate points into their intelligence at the cost of HP's and Dex,the tamers were left untouched. They could still get off fast heals with minimal dex. I can't even get away with locking my dex at 10 on my caster for fear of getting hit hard and becoming a sitting duck.
I am curious,Popps. Do you run with minimum of 10 dex on your tamer?
I can say without a doubt that on my mage tamer,my dps output is much higher when I actively cast spells,with a slayer book,on the same target my greater dragon is chomping on. But it seems that the typical tamer player wants to be a "CEO Tamer". The kind that just gives the orders and collects the benefit of the efforts of the pet. Tamers need to learn to be a "Team-Lead Tamer" by dealing out just as much,or maybe even more,damage as their pet does. Just don't be afraid to get your armor dirty.
Again, thanking to the possibility to use "leeches" for dexers and ranged characters the problem is way, but WAY less then what it would be for a tamer introducing the need for high dex when vetting....
"Occasional" needs can be covered well by Potions and Greater Potions for dexers, ranged or spellcasters, something that a tamer could never do for Vetting instead since vetting is a non-stop continuous activity, especially when fighting high end targets....
Nope.
It is just as easy for a tamer to spread out the points to all three stats just like all the other templates have to so they can be effective. Once upon a time,we could get away with the old warrior stat point spread of 100/100/25. Those days are long gone except for the tamer. No mana needed to command the pet. No dex needed to heal fast with vet. The tamer half-template is without a doubt the strongest 300-360 points in the game bar none. If you can name me a better three-skill combination,that requires no stat considerations,I'd like to see it. As for the leeches on weapons,I only add HP and mana leeches on my weapons and add stamina regen to my suit. And my "pure caster" does fine with mana regen with meditation and 24 mr on my suit. If I can add mr and meditation to that character,a tamer can add it to theirs.
With the change to the weight of potions to two stones each,I have stopped carrying potions except on my stealth alchemist. You are trying to fight a high-end mob solo? That's why you are having to constantly heal and only depending on your greater dragon for damage output. UO is an MMO and end-game bosses were never meat to be solo'd,even by tamers.
Slasher, ML Bosses, even Corgul just to name a few, have been soloed and are soloed by players and they have not been using Tamers....
Some prefer Dexers, some Ranged characters, some Spellcasters, there is not 1 single player that I know or have known who soloed high end Bosses who has done it with any template other then a dexer, a ranged or a spellcaster. Tamers are simply left out by the big hunting game whether or not they assist their pet in doing damage....
Out of cusiosity, I seem to understand that your strongest damage output tamer is the necro tamer (correct me if I am wrong....). What has been the toughest high end Boss that you have been able to solo with it in a time comparable to that a dexer, a ranged or spellcaster template could kill ?
It does look good on paper massive sdi and slayer books and then just get bonus dmg from your pet but the reality is that you spend so much time and mana healing your pet so you will do far less dmg using a tamer with a gd than with a mystic mage and RC
And 2 vollems(crystal) or 2 lowland bouras 0 skill pet that do almost the same dmg as a GD vs a high resist target ( 1 vollem or a singel lowland boura do pretty much the same dmg as a nightmare)
And there is also the crafted leather wolf a 0 skill pack animal that should do about the same dps as frenzie ostards (always wanted to give these a try sure they would be hard to keep alive but with the right character i think these could be amazing because they got pretty nce resist and hp)
To add to that the new monsters just get higher and higher resist and do more and more dmg so pet will do less dmg and the tamer spend more time healing the pet and with all new loot suits get better and better so fighters just get more power and they do not have to worry about the monsters resist because they can just AI spam how is this fair i would understand it if tamers was top dog in pvm but that was so long ago at the release of stygian abysss fighters was already better than tamers and from then to now if you compare the 2 tamers just got worse
The tamer template I have the most success with is the necro tamer with a greater dragon. Wraith form,spamming wither while "all kill"-ing and use reanimate after kills.After three reanimate spells,that gives me five sources of damage output.Me,my greater and three reanimates. The toughest I have solo'd is,I think,was from the "Time Lords" global event a few years back. There were 'angels' that you could fight in an alternate Moonglow that hit like a ton of bricks. They would be hard to damage and had high spell resists and elemental resists. I was able to work one down to being red-lined before it vanished. Technically I didn't win per say,but I had it beat. As for current bosses I have solo'd. All the legacy bosses except for Rikktor. I wont bring my dragon near that one solo. If the boss,or minions are undead,and can't be reanimated,I usually stay away from that boss.
Relax guys, the DEVS are working on a new pet system called TvT, and are currently looking for a focus group.
The concept is to hold a stable in a TvT city. the tamers who can hold the alter the longest gets gold points, that they can spend in trammel on the gold trader.
Here you will be able to buy
Dread warhorses.
Bane Dragons.
Royal soulstones (soulstones that can hold all skills in the game+ stats)
There will also be various barding deeds, and other goodies.
...
...
The concept is to hold a stable in a TvT city. the tamers who can hold the alter the longest gets gold points, that they can spend in trammel on the gold trader.
Here you will be able to buy
Dread warhorses.
Bane Dragons.
Royal soulstones (soulstones that can hold all skills in the game+ stats)
There will also be various barding deeds, and other goodies.
...
...
Good point.
A Tamer, especially when hunting high end MoBs, spends most if not all of the time worrying about keeping one's own pet alive by vetting or healing with mana and there is little time in between vetting and mana healing to cast enough offensive spells against the target to be able to do significant damage.....
Summons, of course, are not available, not with 4 slots followers pets....
The end result is always the same, a Tamer can NOWHERE, not even by far, get close to the damage and offensive capabilities against high end MoBs that dexers, rangers and spellcasting templates (non tamers) can achieve.
Indeed, newly added high end MoBs have been since a good while now, a no-no for tamers and unless the developers come up with some really good revamp of taming, things in todays UO are pretty miserable for Tamers........
Yes I "could" get off fast heals to my pet but with the massive area of effect damage most mobs do anymore I can't really vet my pet anymore... I have to CAST on my pet to heal them... which if you have to have tons of MR and LMC and everything else you still cannot keep up with the damage from a mob... and your pet goes down drastically reducing it's abilities... Then they die 10x faster the next time... You can't vet your pet if you can't stand near it. remember I'd have to stand within 1 tile of my pet. All too often anymore I can't... I can't take the massive damage my pet can.... and if I stand near my pet the mob is going to retarget onto ME.... I can't stand toe to toe with slasher can you? I can't stand toe to toe with Corgul... I can't stand toe to toe with Medusa, Lady Mel any of that.... so I have to stand 8 to 10 tiles away and try to vet my pet with magery.... Mysticism is FAR Too slow to use effectively, Spellweaving.... no, Magery is "Ok" but doesn't heal enough nearly fast enough... and then if the thing poisons as well then I'm casting mass cure and greater heal and eventually I'm out of mana LONG before my pet can do enough damage to make a dent.... then you want me to be able to cast Offensive spells as well??? When would I have time? It's a constant struggle to keep the pet alive.
What level of lmc and mr do you have on your tamers suit? I have worked on a few champ spawns while on my mystic/mage/spellweaver. When the group I was in got the champ to show up,I'd usually play the secondary healer on the greater dragon while keeping an RC up. A couple of times when the tamer got targeted and killed,I'd keep the dragon alive while the tamer was getting back into the fight. With what I have on my suit with lrc and mr,I could spam gheals all day and not have to worry about being out of mana. If I can have "tons of MR and LMC" on my suit,so can any tamer.
So all in all your complaints stem from your lack of suit/template to make your tamer more effective.
Mysticism takes too long to cast? Cleanings Winds is a 1.75second cast time with no FC and has a chance to cure. Greater Heal is 1.25seconds with no FC. .50 second difference.
Spellweaving gives you Gift of Renewal which is super strong. At level 6 focus you are looking at 15-20 heal every 2 seconds for 90 seconds with a rather low cooldown. So you get free heals on top of vet+casting gheal.
Maybe try sacrificing some of your precious luck suit pieces to invest in a decent suit w/ 2/6 casting 40lmc 12+ MR and at least some Med skill. Also hope you realize the gheal spell from magery is more effective the higher Magery you have. So like Dag Nabbit said above, it is possible. Or maybe even grab a decent stat gdrag and train it to max skills so it survives a lot better without your constant need to attend to it... I've played with several tamers who constantly spam damage spells against bosses and they all seem to do fine. The fact that you just dismiss spellweaving and mysticism like that shows you are experiencing more of a personal problem and not so much a balance issue.
Again you are playing as a GROUP not soloing.... where Sampires and such can SOLO the spawn..... Tamer has moved to second class..... even 3rd class in some respects because they can't do the damage and can't sustain the damage.
I have 2/6.... 40LMC etc on my HIGH luck suit or on NO luck suit..... And again your talking about working WITH others... which to me just goes right with saying that a Tamer can't compete or do anything alone anymore as a template.... face it your are only digging deeper to try to find things to argue over. Truth of the matter is the Tamer is no longer a viable template to do anything with unless you are in a GROUP. To just take your tamer out hunting over a Sampire or anything else you just can't do 1/2 the spawns or anything anymore because they have made spawns to pretty much destroy the tamer and slow the sampire..... what they have done to make it harder for a Sampire to solo a spawn has made it impossible for a tamer to even really do much at all without a group. I can do way more on my archer than my tamers. Most of the new dungeons and all are pretty much not tamer friendly... and don't tell me despise is because that dungeon is nothing but a griefer paradise.... I refuse to go there anymore and since they don't seem to care about the griefing, luring and everything else that goes on there... I won't be going there ever again.
I didn't read all of this but I wanted to make a comment in regards to the tamers being "weak"
I believe the biggest issue with the tamer is the lack of options. The power and purpose of the GD is clear, tank. So that means as a tamer you have "parry and bushido" for your 240 skills. Now after that is where the tamer struggles. No one said you HAVE to use magery. Why not make it a thrower and get a great tank AND huge dmg AI spam? But everything is centered on that greater. That is where my issue is. I want variety.
This killer for the template is the vet. Without vet your tamer has a lot more powerful options. If you choose vet yes the standard tamer mage is pretty weak. About 5 years ago the tamer was the standard go to pvm temp. That clearly has been changed and I do not believe it was by accident. Around when the Dread Warhorse came out is when tamers where at their height (in the time of followers slots). Since then I think it has declined pretty well with only the greater added to appease them. It is obvious that tamers are a dying breed compared to just a few years ago.
I think the biggest void from the change to tamers is that it was simple. You could easily log in grab a pet and have fun. You didn't have to get a circle, honor things, learn much about the game. Just log in grab the dragon and your off. It also is/was a huge attractant for new players. When I started I was all about having a pet dragon. Game of thrones would make that fact even stronger these days! Not everyone wants spread sheets and complex game mechanics. I personally love that stuff but the old tamers seemed to be a slower, less item driven group. They were all about the pet and getting it trained and getting the best possible.
I'm not saying buff tamers, I'm not saying nerf this etc etc. I just noticed a few things over past few years and one of which is the lack of tamer love. The bane dragon was the last pet added and that was just to shut people up about dreads. So to me the last cool pet to be released was the dread. And that was quite a bit ago.
I believe the biggest issue with the tamer is the lack of options. The power and purpose of the GD is clear, tank. So that means as a tamer you have "parry and bushido" for your 240 skills. Now after that is where the tamer struggles. No one said you HAVE to use magery. Why not make it a thrower and get a great tank AND huge dmg AI spam? But everything is centered on that greater. That is where my issue is. I want variety.
This killer for the template is the vet. Without vet your tamer has a lot more powerful options. If you choose vet yes the standard tamer mage is pretty weak. About 5 years ago the tamer was the standard go to pvm temp. That clearly has been changed and I do not believe it was by accident. Around when the Dread Warhorse came out is when tamers where at their height (in the time of followers slots). Since then I think it has declined pretty well with only the greater added to appease them. It is obvious that tamers are a dying breed compared to just a few years ago.
I think the biggest void from the change to tamers is that it was simple. You could easily log in grab a pet and have fun. You didn't have to get a circle, honor things, learn much about the game. Just log in grab the dragon and your off. It also is/was a huge attractant for new players. When I started I was all about having a pet dragon. Game of thrones would make that fact even stronger these days! Not everyone wants spread sheets and complex game mechanics. I personally love that stuff but the old tamers seemed to be a slower, less item driven group. They were all about the pet and getting it trained and getting the best possible.
I'm not saying buff tamers, I'm not saying nerf this etc etc. I just noticed a few things over past few years and one of which is the lack of tamer love. The bane dragon was the last pet added and that was just to shut people up about dreads. So to me the last cool pet to be released was the dread. And that was quite a bit ago.
Except for today (I wanted to see what loot a suit 2220 luck would give me), I usually use a suit that has max LMC, gives me 150 Int (and 27 mana inc on top on that, maxing my mana out at 177), and has 30+ Mana Regen. Even with that suit, magery alone is not sufficient to deal with boss-level monsters. If I go to solo Melisande (6 skill Tamer/Mage), all of my mana goes towards healing my greater, and I have to do this for 30 minutes.
Medusa? She'll petrify my pet, make a copy, and the copy will beat the crap out of the real thing. I go on my sampire.
Slasher? He kills pets in two hits. Sampires get annihilated if he howls and pelts you with rocks. My mages do a much better job against him.
ML Peerless? I don't dare attempt ANY of them unless at least one other person is there, and even then it can be a little rough.
Champ spawns? Greaters do better here (most of the time); both Mephitis and the Harrower will beat the crap out of the tamer, which makes the pet a sitting duck. Once again, Sampires are far superior to Tamers (although a greater tanking during Oaks, Rikktor, and Neira makes life much easier for a sampire)
And the list of high end Bosses which are "off limits" to Tamers (but are easy for other templates like dexers, ranged or spellcasters to do) could continue......
I sincerely hope that the developers are willing to go the extra mile about their decision to "up" the Tamers and so finally bring them to the SAME LEVEL as dexers, ranged and spellcasters when it comes to soloing high end bosses.
Players need to be able to have also the choice to use a Tamer to hunt solo at least some of those high end Bosses which are now "off limits" to a Tamer. Whether the best way to achieve this can be Slayers in pets, buffing up skills and stats of pets, reducing followers' slots required or else, will be up to the Developers to decide, but the end result to reach should be clear, give to Tamers the ability to solo hunt at least some of the high end Bosses which now are "off limits" to them.