Governor Elections Evaluation and State of the Game

[Shakkara]

Well, that's that, the term's over.

I just wonder what has been the point of this all.

On Europa, we had 2 pointless meetings where we could make requests to the king. NONE of these requests, from any of the governors, got fulfilled. We were asked to bring materials for the office, the office isn't even built. I tried to organize events for the players and got ZERO support from the EM or Mesanna.

I'm terribly sorry, but I think this whole system is a huge fail. It's a PvM system (Players vs Mesanna). There are no tools or systems that the players can use, all we can do is send emails to our EM and Mesanna and hope that we get a reply. I personally don't want to interact with a godlike dev-person in an ivory tower when I'm playing a game, I want to interact with a system, a system that has all the time in the world to process my requests, is unbiassed, and where *I* am the one making meaningful decissions and shaping the world through *MY* actions.

THAT is the sandbox game. We need more sand for the sandbox and more tools to play with. Not some play-by-post game with a dev!

At this moment, my subscription to this game is hanging by a thread. I've already decided to close down two out of three accounts. And I fear the last one won't be far behind. I just don't feel I'm getting any value for my money anymore when compared to other games (Guild Wars 2 gets a free content expansion every two weeks!) and I haven't been getting value for money the past year or so either. The armor revamp I was looking forward to was plagued by bad design (mage armor, yellow dragon scales, just wtf), governor elections have just been a big fail, Europa server has been without an EM and only gets a handful of terrible events now with the temporary EM, EM item drops being a distributed by a terribly designed system, and I can go on forever.

The developers have been making awesome promises for years that we get exciting new content, but almost none of them get fulfilled, or when we finally get something it simply doesn't live up to expectations (where was last year's anniversary that was going to be so awesome? Where are the rewards for being venerated reputation in a city, that were going to be so enormous?)

Then there's also the critical bugs that make it through the release almost every time an update comes (candidates being wiped off voting stones, vote stones getting stuck, houses unlocking stuff, etc).

As game designer, I'm just so disappointed by the state of UO's game systems that were introduced in the past year. Everytime something comes out I just cringe and feel angry and frustrated due to flaws that could easily be prevented and must crusade on the forums in a mostly vain attempt to prevent the worst parts going through. While it is normal that a professional is likely to critique the works of others in the same field of expertise, UO is the number one game that I feel is being neglected, mistreated and so on to the point that it seriously upsets and pains me just to think about it. A game with massive potential, left to wither and die due to one poor decission and one bad implementation after another.

Harsh words, once again, but at least you can have some satisfaction by the fact that I likely won't be around much longer.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

It is increasingly clear that this system is RP only and no one should join it with the expectation of anything but. It is not a bad thing to have an institutionalized system that's purely RP. Indeed it's a good thing.

Other issues you cite (lack of regular persistent non-EM content; deeply flawed item drop system; etc) are separate issues.

-Galen's player

 

[Tazar]

As is everything in UO - this system is what you make of it. Atlantic had some very active participation and we had a lot of fun.

 

[Adol]

As is everything in UO - this system is what you make of it. Atlantic had some very active participation and we had a lot of fun.

That isn't true. Europa may be in an exceptional situation, but it depends on how much of a direct line you have to Mesanna, as the EMs have to run ideas past her for legality. And she's just one person, with an enormous workload already. Atlantic may be getting a lot of support, but although the playerbase have been submitting ideas on Europa, and the replacement EM has listened to them twice, the ideas have just disappeared into the ether. And that's after all of the horrible drama about ballot stacking we had to even get there on our shard; that will still be there even if Mesanna gets an extra pair of eyes and ears and the process speeds up.

 

[Shakkara]

As is everything in UO - this system is what you make of it. Atlantic had some very active participation and we had a lot of fun.

Well, yes but Atlantic has:
1) A huge population, whereas I have maybe 5 active people in my city. Without support for events and activities, how am I supposed to attract more people? Keep in mind that at most 10 people show up for any kind player run event or activity on Europa nowadays.
2) An EM. Europa had no EM for the first half of the period and now borrows Drach's EM, who simply doesn't seem to have time to interact with us.
3) Mesanna's attention. Because of 1, we don't get an equal share of that pie.

 

[cazador]

Just wait till the next publish! You'll be pleasantly surprised!

/End Automated Recording

 

[WildStar]

"We were asked to bring materials for the office, the office isn't even built."

This is related to the term coming up for Governor Offices built by Mesanna not the term that just ended.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Most of this thread is true if you look at the Council as a means to get stuffs. I'm actually not aware of anything being proposed by Governors actually being done on any shard. (We were talking about this in the Great Lakes RP community Ventrilo server the other night. If anything's been added as a result of the system, we've missed it. I'd surely like to know if we were wrong.)

Now most of the current Governors on GL seem to recognize that the system actually isn't good for getting stuff and seems to be rolling with the system as it is, to varying degrees of contentment. Sadly, like any RP endeavor, it's fragile and someone selfish or malicious probably could break things quite easily. (It's very much a fear of mine, actually; a bunch of Governors being elected who just don't get it.)

Now, of course, GL is blessed with both active RPers and the best EMs there are. Based upon this post it seems Europa sadly doesn't have an EM and I'm not sure if it still has RP. That is indeed a shame. But no amount of "get stuff from the Council" going to change that or improve that. On Great Lakes the Yew Governor has put in for a dock in Yew. Let's say we got that but didn't have the active RPers and the awesome EMs. How much would it matter that we got that dock. "Oh look. A dock we can stand on and say 'look at our dock.'" It's the interaction and the storyline that give things their meaning.

On Europa: Is someone from Swagger's Tavern on the Council for Vesper? Have they run and lost or not tried? (If Swagger's is still there.) There was plenty of active RP in Trinsic when I was on Europa. Has one of them run for Trinsic?

I really wish the UO team had never said the Council system was "RP Plus" and instead just said "this primarily is an RP/Storyline tool" and mostly let it stand there. Had they done so, anything besides RP then would've been a bonus. But I think the "Plus" gave some of us expectations which were unrealistic and not likely intended.

-Galen's player

 

[NuSair]

I think the whole system was a complete waste of valuable time.

 

[Uvtha]

It is increasingly clear that this system is RP only and no one should join it with the expectation of anything but. It is not a bad thing to have an institutionalized system that's purely RP. Indeed it's a good thing.

If it's simply for RP its hardly even a system at all. I agree with op that a system like this should be an actual system that has build in features that effect the towns beyond giving someone a pointless title and a choice of some buffs most of which will never ever be chosen. The ask the EM to ask Messana method simply isn't going to fly.

I hoped, and still hope that the system we have now is just the first part of what the town system will eventually become. If not, its just kind of pointless. Won't matter who the mayor is so long as the SSI bonus is active.

Unfortunately a really cool town system where being a citizen or an elected official it actually matters and offers engaging game play options would probably require an expansion sized update, which obviously will never happen.

 

[Uvtha]

Most of this thread is true if you look at the Council as a means to get stuffs. I'm actually not aware of anything being proposed by Governors actually being done on any shard. (We were talking about this in the Great Lakes RP community Ventrilo server the other night. If anything's been added as a result of the system, we've missed it. I'd surely like to know if we were wrong.)

Thats the lame part. If the EM's and developers are actively PUTTING themselves into the RP and then ignoring it by never granting requests, isn't it all just a huge tease?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

If it's simply for RP its hardly even a system at all. I agree with op that a system like this should be an actual system that has build in features that effect the towns beyond giving someone a pointless title and a choice of some buffs most of which will never ever be chosen. The ask the EM to ask Messana method simply isn't going to fly.

I hoped, and still hope that the system we have now is just the first part of what the town system will eventually become. If not, its just kind of pointless. Won't matter who the mayor is so long as the SSI bonus is active.

Unfortunately a really cool town system where being a citizen or an elected official it actually matters and offers engaging game play options would probably require an expansion sized update, which obviously will never happen.

I guess it all comes down to values.

I value storyline, immersion, and RP. From that perspective the Council is a chance literally to be at the table with the King. Or, because the meetings thus far are public, a chance to interact with the King directly even if one isn't actually at the table.

Many players had long-called for something similar, for various reasons, until we got it, then we wanted something else.

My feelings on the system itself are quite mixed, actually. I'm defending it in the present context because the particular criticisms in this thread basically hinge around being able to get stuff. Either stuff for one's self or, to a lesser degree, so that one's town can greater-reflect one's personal vision for it. And that simply is not a good criticism.

The team must take a longer view and think of how the towns will be in the years to come. They must also weigh effort and time in one area against another. Case in point, this discussion. They put time and effort into this and some argue that time and effort was misdirected. What if they add, say, the dock to Yew that the Governor of Yew on GL wants. I'd like it. I'd like it a lot (assuming they didn't do a bad job of course). But would everyone? Would someone in a month happen upon it and say "they spent time on this but not on improving PvP?" Frankly I think someone having, and vociferously voicing on Stratics, that very thought is a 100% certainty. And ditto for any change any of you want to see. No matter how cool what you want is, someone will look at it and deem it a waste of time and effort. Or, worse yet, call it favoritism.

My own mixed thoughts on the system stem from other areas.

-Galen's player

 

[Shakkara]

I'm defending it in the present context because the particular criticisms in this thread basically hinge around being able to get stuff.
-Galen's player

I'm sorry that you interpret my post that way, but I think that asking for tools to influence a sandbox world isn't exactly asking for 'stuff'. It's asking for features that should have been a part of this game for a long time, and actually are a part of many freeservers. Features which are actually primarily promoting active roleplaying and community interaction...

I personally am a roleplayer and became governor of Trinsic with the roleplaying aspect in mind. But there just hasn't been anything that we couldn't do with the existing systems, with the exception of two half-hour meetings with the king. Well great, but there was hardly any interaction even in those moments, and the EMs time can be better spent on events that please the entire shard, not just 9 people. The governors should be given the tools to organize activities for the players and become some sort of demi-EM, in my opinion. Right now the system is a burden on the EM, why couldn't it be designed so that a few players are able to assist the EM?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I personally am a roleplayer and became governor of Trinsic with the roleplaying aspect in mind. But there just hasn't been anything that we couldn't do with the existing systems, with the exception of two half-hour meetings with the king. Well great, but there was hardly any interaction even in those moments,

You may want to talk to some of our Governors on Atlantic and pick their brain then. They keep the shard busy with things to do. It's always one thing or another to do. Fishing contests that last a few weeks, Carnivals, Archery contests... even a ton of stuff being done for election night. I do agree they have limited ways to engage the public, but they have all done a great job in working with what they have (and getting donations) to keep the busy and bring back that community feel to the game.... which imo was severly lacking at one point.

 

[Skunk]

Could be worse you know...on Origin we don't even have governors in most cities. I think it's neat for the people who are into it and it's too bad things not getting followed through on most shards. Oh well...at least we get pixel crack out of it, banners. Chin up, enjoy the game while we have it, if you can't then move on.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Right now the system is a burden on the EM, why couldn't it be designed so that a few players are able to assist the EM?

Additional thought:

I agree the EM's have a lot on their plates and I appreciate anyone who takes that often thankless and griefed position on ... BUT... they all knew that would be the case when they tried submitted to be an EM. I do not say that to negate what they do, only that point out they knew it would be that way. One of the deals for being an EM has normally been that you can not be an EM on your home shard (last I checked anyway).. the reason it was done that way is to stop a lot of the conspiracy stuff about favoritism. If they were allow people on the shard to assist the EM's in certain areas the conspiracy junk would rage again, or even more.

.. or that's my .02

 

[AppleJax]

The governors should be given the tools to organize activities for the players and become some sort of demi-EM, in my opinion.

What tools and what kind of activities?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Thats the lame part. If the EM's and developers are actively PUTTING themselves into the RP and then ignoring it by never granting requests, isn't it all just a huge tease?

See my reply to your other post. Comes down to values. If you value stuffs then, yes, anything other than stuffs is by definition going to be "a huge tease."

I've made it clear that my own feelings on the system are, based upon entirely different criteria, rather mixed.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I'm sorry that you interpret my post that way, but I think that asking for tools to influence a sandbox world isn't exactly asking for 'stuff'. It's asking for features that should have been a part of this game for a long time, and actually are a part of many freeservers. Features which are actually primarily promoting active roleplaying and community interaction...

I personally am a roleplayer and became governor of Trinsic with the roleplaying aspect in mind. But there just hasn't been anything that we couldn't do with the existing systems, with the exception of two half-hour meetings with the king. Well great, but there was hardly any interaction even in those moments, and the EMs time can be better spent on events that please the entire shard, not just 9 people. The governors should be given the tools to organize activities for the players and become some sort of demi-EM, in my opinion. Right now the system is a burden on the EM, why couldn't it be designed so that a few players are able to assist the EM?

The EMs are the subject of enough bizarre conspiracy theories on Stratics under present conditions, let alone if Governors, elected by players and sitting on a Council with an EM-played King, could become sort of a demi-EM.

Also imagine the griefing opportunities, depending upon the abilities given under what you propose. If this thread proves everything, it's that not everyone values RP and interaction; note how another poster referred to it as "a big tease." Imagine someone who felt similarly with demi-EM abilities.

Now, again, I have my own qualms with this, but they appear to be coming from a radically different place from most of the posters in this particular thread.

-Galen's player

 

[Frarc]

On Drachenfels we are working together with the EM on a RP event. A story been worked on and discussed with the EM and not one thing has been denied by him or Mesanna to build.We don't ask for anything extraordinary anyway! (I think) Have a look in Cove,Magincia, Near Orc Cave you will find spider-webs and altars everywhere. We even killed one of the EM characters for the story. When we discussed what rewards for the event i said right away "Nothing!". The only people who have/had problem with that where the ones who only comes for items on the events. The 3rd part of the event was better in this way because i announced infront there will be nothing to get. I rather to this RP event for 10 players who are interested in the story then 50 who comes for a item.

I have faith the things we requested as governors will be build . Jhelom will have their stables!
The kings meeting will also resulted to remove the taxes from the town stones donations. (Probably with the next publish)
The council and governor "system" is fairly new. I can't wait to see what more to come from it.

If i'm reelected in Jhelom as governor and the taxes been removed from the town stone i will plan some events to fund the donations.
As governor thats my job, not the EM, Mesanna or the Dev team.

And if we plan a event to attack the council and the King, we will do that! Why? Because we are EVIL!


Oh and in Real Life, Politics are usualy long and boring discussion before something happends too.

 

[Seona]

What tools and what kind of activities?

I think something that would be useful is for Governors to be able to access their Heralds, even if it's just one by the bank. That way special events may be broadcasted to the game in-game instead of just on the Stratics forums.

Also, a way for players to contact their Governors would be great, too. Perhaps a mailbox that players could double-click and a note comes up that they can write to the Govs.

Let's see... what else... Perhaps a way to lock items in the city down (within reason) to enhance the city a bit. All items locked down are returned if the player does not retain their position. It might cause a bit of policing by the EMs, but I'm sure that those of us who run for office will keep their powers to an easy setting.


We should NOT get *stuff* for our service. That would just invoke people to run for Governor so they can get a pretty banner or something stupid like that. We did have one of our Governors mention a plaque, but I think it would be wiser to have a series of plaques that list the governors for the cities in total. That way we can honor those who have been before. It would be a good item to have at Castle Blackthorn along the chamber walls even.

 

[Tazar]

I think something that would be useful is for Governors to be able to access their Heralds, even if it's just one by the bank. That way special events may be broadcasted to the game in-game instead of just on the Stratics forums.

I can't say that this is really needed. One of the "events" on Atlantic was a Protest against the Governor of Britain. I set that up virtually by myself simply by multi-clienting on two different computers (6 accounts spread across 4 monitors). I created characters named "A Protestor" and had them spam statements with a delay between to announce the protest march for that evening. I was able to see all 6 characters at all times and with the EC - I had the macro spamming all day very easily. The Turnout at the protest was great.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I think something that would be useful is for Governors to be able to access their Heralds, even if it's just one by the bank. That way special events may be broadcasted to the game in-game instead of just on the Stratics forums.

I would be ok with Governor's getting a Herald or two they could place in strategic areas of their town to deliver messages. Something along the lines of a Personal Attendant that they can set a personal message on but not the crier system that is already in place for EM news.

Also, a way for players to contact their Governors would be great, too. Perhaps a mailbox that players could double-click and a note comes up that they can write to the Govs.

Sure, putting up a bulletin board up in every town could be beneficial. Of course you would have to go through tons of griefing and troll messages would be my guess lol. Buncha immature kiddies out there (and that's a mentality not an age )

 

[MalagAste]

I suppose I went into it with the RP assumption that Governor was much like the extension of my being elected Mayor a dozen times... Having RPed as Mayor of Yew for years I felt it was only a more "glorified" version of that which would be more "recognized" than just being in an ancient guild named "Yew Town Council" and putting the title "Mayor" on. Now it's "Governor". Which works for me.

Suppose also I went in with the assumption that I was getting Nothing..... and this was strictly another RP venue... Not really disappointed that my requests weren't granted or anything... just was thinking it would be nice for our town. One that I've lived in since I got my first small tower just south of town... One I continue to support as well as I continue to support UO itself. I enjoyed the council and would run again and again...

The only thing that irritated me was abolished and that was the Tax. Made others not want to donate and made me not want to dump a bunch of gold on the city. But I did whenever asked. Yew had the mage bonus of the 5% SDI most of the time.

One thing I have to say is one of the towns ought to be able to have a fishing bonus giving Fishermen an added REAL bonus to catching rare fish of 5% or something ..... That I would support! The Baits and the suit are a joke .... but a true bonus that would be nice. But I suppose that's just me dreaming.

Anyway went in with no expectations was neither disappointed nor surprised in what it was. Happy about the town hall idea. Would rather have a stone tower to match the Abbey and Winery but hey... I love my town what can I say.

 

[Uvtha]

See my reply to your other post. Comes down to values. If you value stuffs then, yes, anything other than stuffs is by definition going to be "a huge tease."

I've made it clear that my own feelings on the system are, based upon entirely different criteria, rather mixed.

I don't think its about what you value, it's about a reasonable expectation of what certain actions suggest. It would be one thing to say "we're going to have EM's come and interact with the mayors just from a RP standpoint, they can't actually fulfill requests or make changes" its another to have them come and give a sense that the mayor actually has some influence.

I mean... they could have just left it up to the players. They mayor could just SAY he talked to lord blackthorn and a new bridge is not in the budget! or whatever.

When the people who actually have power to accomplish changes get involved with the elected player reps, actively TAKE requests, I don't think its unreasonable to expect the people RPing with them to be RPing for a tangible result.

I guess my real problem is that when the system requires regular interaction by EMs I am concerned that it will just fade away one day. When an actual built in system would always be there no matter what the situation was with outside interaction.

 

[WildStar]

I am Governor of New Magincia on Baja and requested some improvements. They were approved and have been built. The sites were the northern beach and the small peninsula near the the bank, along with some plants placed near stone pathways leading to the bank/warehouse.

 

[Uvtha]

I am Governor of New Magincia on Baja and requested some improvements. They were approved and have been built. The sites were the northern beach and the small peninsula near the the bank, along with some plants placed near stone pathways leading to the bank/warehouse.

Thats cool. Glad to see some of these interactions are bearing fruit at least.

 

[Tina Small]

I guess my real problem is that when the system requires regular interaction by EMs I am concerned that it will just fade away one day. When an actual built in system would always be there no matter what the situation was with outside interaction.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to put in a system that requires regular interaction with EMs when over one fourth of the shards didn't have their own assigned EM when the system was put in and almost five months later still don't have their own EM.

 

[Uvtha]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to put in a system that requires regular interaction with EMs when over one fourth of the shards didn't have their own assigned EM when the system was put in and almost five months later still don't have their own EM.

Yeah... and I hardly imagine that situation is going to improve as time goes on.

 

[MalagAste]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to put in a system that requires regular interaction with EMs when over one fourth of the shards didn't have their own assigned EM when the system was put in and almost five months later still don't have their own EM.

Sad but I can see why. Burn out for one. I have wrestled with the idea of applying many times over but when I see the way people act on my own shard at the events.... I just can't help but shake my head and go NOOO...

I would NOT put up with people acting like they do. I would not be able to tolerate the 100's of times people ask.... "Is there a drop? What's the drop? Why didn't I get a drop? This sucks can't we do something I want to kill stuff and get my drop. Stop talking I'm bored... Get on with it.... etc..." I hear that each and ever time there is an event on GL's... along with the dozens who want a catch up gate... where is everyone, what are we doing.... can someone gate me..... does anyone know wtf is going on... why are we here... and to make things worse.... if as a player you try to "assist" anyone then others give you crap for it and tell you to STFU.... only most the time not as nicely. There is rude, vulgar, and disturbing behavior going on and the way the players treat each other and the EM's is appalling. I've often said that if they can't behave they should just stop the event. If they don't pull their heads out after a few min and comply then the event should just be cancelled. After a few times of cancelled events I figure those who are disrupting will either get the idea.... or their guildmates will take care of it.... so the event isn't cancelled again. But they rarely do stuff like that.... I couldn't put up with it.

Suppose that's why I never was cut out to be a teacher or daycare provider... I have little patience or tolerance for childish behavior. If there is a lack of EM's its highly likely it's because the ones who have done it either found out they couldn't give stuff to their friends or they couldn't be EM's on their own shard... or they simply didn't want to be a daycare provider/babysitter for a bunch of spoiled brats.



One thing I wish could come of being the "Governor" would be a City Beautification project. But I don't see that happening either. I asked for a few things for Yew... but none of the requests were filled. Now why that is I don't know... but I am still somewhat hopeful.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I don't think its about what you value, it's about a reasonable expectation of what certain actions suggest. It would be one thing to say "we're going to have EM's come and interact with the mayors just from a RP standpoint, they can't actually fulfill requests or make changes" its another to have them come and give a sense that the mayor actually has some influence.

No, based on that statement values are exactly what it's about. Indeed our values are so far apart that it's hard to find a common vocabulary with which to have a discussion but I'll do my best here.

I've made it clear that I think it was a mistake to even suggest the notion that there'd be more coming from this system. (And honestly I'm not sure the fact that New Magincia's gotten something much-changes the dynamic of the discussion, as it's as much about "shoulds" than "ares.")

Let's look at your last clause: " . . . its another to have them come and give a sense that the mayor actually has some influence." In context it's fairly clear that you by influence mean "getting stuffs." Not having an impact on the storyline, not in being at the table with the King and his basically having to acknowledge your argument on such and such a thing.

I mean... they could have just left it up to the players. They mayor could just SAY he talked to lord blackthorn and a new bridge is not in the budget! or whatever.

Yes but this would leave out the actual interaction with the actual King.

You literally could imagine whatever you wish to, and people have long-RPed direct interactions with the Crown for some time now. I've tried my best to shy away from it in my case, have long tried to see the RP governments I've participated in or interacted with as more advocacy groups than governments.

RPed groups along these lines succeed only to the extent that other players go along with it (if only tacitly -- and one can go along with it even without much direct interaction) and/or to the extent that the broader mythology of the game doesn't directly contradict them. (I'm not including groups that deliberately play outside of the traditional UO mythology, such as groups I've seen and read about that have player such things as the Virtues being a dark and oppressive force, swords being light sabres from the Star Wars mythos, and Malas being Mordor. Those groups are, I suggest, a separate discussion.) Sometimes they have even weirdly caused resentment among other players, despite (or maybe because of?!) the fact that it was all voluntary and nothing made you go along with it.

The chance to directly be part of the government, in an officially recognized and sanctioned way, is something that's long been asked for until we got it.

When the people who actually have power to accomplish changes get involved with the elected player reps, actively TAKE requests, I don't think its unreasonable to expect the people RPing with them to be RPing for a tangible result.

In context by "tangible result" you mean some object or physical impact on the game. It's possible to have an impact on a storyline or on how an important character thinks about something without necessarily noticing it. But is it really less important? Depends, I suppose, on what you value.

I've been clear that I think implying a tangible result was a mistake on the team's part. The point, really, is whether we value that result or whether we value the interaction.

I guess my real problem is that when the system requires regular interaction by EMs I am concerned that it will just fade away one day. When an actual built in system would always be there no matter what the situation was with outside interaction.

A system to do what? Allowing the Governors to, say, decorate a town? Would you let the next Governor undo everything? What accusations of favoritism would result? What conspiracy theories would flower here as currently flower regarding the EMs? Would you allow a limited number of lockdowns? What would you do when a player wanted to build a McDonald's in, say, Minoc like someone did with their house in Luna some years back? You may well respond that you're into that sort of thing and wouldn't mind it. But I doubt that such a spell-breaking, atmosphere-wrecking thing in one of the major cities would be good for the long-term health of the game. What if someone wanted to, in effect, turn the town into a guild house? Restricted access and all? Surely you will say your system wouldn't allow for such a thing, but then the persons who want to do such a thing shoot back with a "why not?" And let's say nothing about the issues with the voting that some have argued they have experienced.

There's stuff to criticize legitimately in this system to be sure, but this thread has only marginally addressed them and they aren't the main point of the thread. Which, ultimately, is stuff.

And moot, because it looks like, based on the New Magincia--Baja shard, case, that getting such stuff is indeed possible.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to put in a system that requires regular interaction with EMs when over one fourth of the shards didn't have their own assigned EM when the system was put in and almost five months later still don't have their own EM.

I honestly can't see why someone would want to be an EM, given all the conspiracy theories on the boards and the bad behavior in-game. Honestly that's a low vacancy rate given the issues. And it doesn't count the fact that, based on the latest data (not yours, but Promathia's), some shards seem to share.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I am Governor of New Magincia on Baja and requested some improvements. They were approved and have been built. The sites were the northern beach and the small peninsula near the the bank, along with some plants placed near stone pathways leading to the bank/warehouse.

What specifically did you do?

Ask verbally? E-Mail Did you submit a plan like it was a town banner? Etc.

-Galen's player

 

[Endal]

1) A huge population, whereas I have maybe 5 active people in my city. Without support for events and activities, how am I supposed to attract more people? Keep in mind that at most 10 people show up for any kind player run event or activity on Europa nowadays.

What kind of events do you need support for? I'm not even a Governor (yet) and I've had a few minor events already. Nothing that's going to change the history of the game forever, but quite a few things that have formed a few stronger RP relationships with friends. Events don't need to be conducted by an EM in many cases, it just depends on what you want to do, really.

2) An EM. Europa had no EM for the first half of the period and now borrows Drach's EM, who simply doesn't seem to have time to interact with us.

I think that Napa had their EM resign after the first month of the Governor program. We have a new one now who seems very enthusiastic. During this time we were still able to interact with eachother and were able to have a few rather fun events including a Joust, Wrestling Match, and there are plans for a footrace in the near future.

3) Mesanna's attention. Because of 1, we don't get an equal share of that pie.

It's not all 100% Mesanna that slows down a bit of progress. There are rules that need to be followed including keeping the storyline intact, game balance, and many other factors to take in. While I agree that a bit more sand would be awesome, there does need to be considerations.



The Governor system is a great RP tool, though I feel that the RP should be planned early on. Surprising the EMs at meetings with information should be avoided so that they can have planned answers outlined prior to the meetings. I hope that should I take my Governor seat that I can help to mold the interaction with the EMs a bit better and to see what all can truly be accomplished.

 

[Queen Arya]

For fear of making this post to long and it turns into... blah... blah blah etc.
This Governorship event is a terrific idea. Its not just role play, Its what YOU make of it.
As I see it, you just need an EM and be a little more active your self.
If your shards empty, I blame your player base.
Interaction, advertise, Do things for others, farm and invite players, go to other shards and talk in chat about what your doing on your shard, Post here.
Bid for a Rares fest, Hold your own type of festival, Email your EM and/or Mesanna with ideas to bring activity there. not just once, keep emailing.
You get back what you put in.
Just saying what no one else has

 

[cazador]

As governor you should have a little more say then giving of a title..I personally thought this as well as being an "RP" system which as a sole reason is a bit silly considering it takes up about 1% of the UO pop! Excellent usage of dev time :rolls eyes: but all in all not a bad thing, but if handled correctly it could accomplish 2 things.
1. Get people not previously involved with EM's or the RP community, involved
2. Some sort of Shard specific beautification

Where town council,members..could vote on "new buildings, naming of roads, plants, flowers, statues, memorial plots" things of that nature..

Even to the extent of making it more fun
-----------
Example:
New Magincia Blacksmith Shop Renovation Project
Starts September 1 - Ends October 1
Goal Ingredients
15 Million Gold
700k Regular Boards
100k Oak Boards
500k Iron Ingots
100k -Colored Ingots - Depending On Design
----------
You could as governor
-Hire Miners/Lumberjacks to meet a weekly quota and be paid..or not >:}
-Have a in-town appointed government to assist while the governor is "offline"
-To increase participation add tiers for participation
"Highest Donater" - Plaque in governors office
"If highest donator 5x..you get a statue built"
2nd-5th- Honarable Mention plaque in the building

-Maybe some in-game titles
-Maybe some in-game non altering items "Clothing Items"

..list is endless

 

[Uvtha]

I don't care about the getting things. Thats not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that the way the system has been set up the interaction with the dev team, actively ASKING for requests, the players should expect that their requests have a possibility of being fulfilled. If you design and operate a system like that without prefacing that it is strictly an RP tool, you are sending a specific kind of message, one of tangible interaction, not simple roleplaying.

Again, I don't think that getting town changes or whatever is more valuable than a good role playing experience, I am just saying that the way the system was presented it was reasonable for people to expect the possibility of tangible results.

Clearly as you say, the system was NOT set up as rp only tool, thus I have no issue with the way it had been presented. Though I still don't like the fact that it depends so much on EM interaction/attention, because obviously that coverage is not equal to all shards, and even if it were the EM team could disappear one day, and them the towns system will have lost much of its meat. Hopefully they keep adding on to it.

 

[Uvtha]

As governor you should have a little more say then giving of a title..I personally thought this as well as being an "RP" system which as a sole reason is a bit silly considering it takes up about 1% of the UO pop! Excellent usage of dev time :rolls eyes: but all in all not a bad thing, but if handled correctly it could accomplish 2 things.
1. Get people not previously involved with EM's or the RP community, involved
2. Some sort of Shard specific beautification

Where town council,members..could vote on "new buildings, naming of roads, plants, flowers, statues, memorial plots" things of that nature..

Even to the extent of making it more fun
-----------
Example:
New Magincia Blacksmith Shop Renovation Project
Starts September 1 - Ends October 1
Goal Ingredients
15 Million Gold
700k Regular Boards
100k Oak Boards
500k Iron Ingots
100k -Colored Ingots - Depending On Design
----------
You could as governor
-Hire Miners/Lumberjacks to meet a weekly quota and be paid..or not >:}
-Have a in-town appointed government to assist while the governor is "offline"
-To increase participation add tiers for participation
"Highest Donater" - Plaque in governors office
"If highest donator 5x..you get a statue built"
2nd-5th- Honarable Mention plaque in the building

-Maybe some in-game titles
-Maybe some in-game non altering items "Clothing Items"

..list is endless

I really like the idea of hard coded interaction. They could even do it up like the donations, with upkeep to keep dedicated towns in tip top shape. I just fear something that grand is out of the development scope.

 

[cazador]

I agree it probably isn't even in a list of top 29 things to do..which is why I've always said instead of the team just "doing" something that there should be ballot boxes throughout the game that can be voted on once per account with a list of say 4 things that are doable and have some thought already out into them..for example


1. PvP Balances
2.New land Mass
3.Revamp of Doom
4.New Clothing Types
5.Other (explain)
And whatever has the most votes throughout all of the game gets designed next..

The community is too small to just throw random stuff at and be like ok ENjOy!! (Refinements) which nobody really uses

Granted even that way not everyone will be happy..but atleast your dealing with a majority vote rather than the 40-50 regulars on stratics that are willing to discuss content..

I'm not talking about holiday gifts,veteran rewards,donations or anything minor like that..I'm talking about game changing additions

 

[Velvathos]

I have played on Europa for a long time now and I ran for the elections in Skara Brae and lost and I didn't do it to sit with Blackthorn or some EM's, I did it because I run a RP guild in Skara Brae where we have built a major size player town in Spiritwood and the guild is known as the Rangers of Skara Brae, we also have a guild now called the Freehold of Skara Brae, I lost to someone else who is rarely ever around Skara Brae, someone that I tried getting in contact with to run events, I wanted to at least work with the governor to help benefit the players who are roleplaying in Skara Brae, cause let's face it, we're the ones that it will benefit the most, it is the roleplayers who have kept this game alive and the storylines on Europa still going, as we are an Rp guild, the biggest use I had for being governor was for RP purposes and to bring the RP into Skara Brae a little more, we have players in Spiritwood now daily, I am there on a daily basis, I run my own RP events on a daily basis.. And yes, Swaggers is still in Vesper (I think someone questioned it..) There is people there, A LOT.. We still have a few Grd around and folks in Trinsic, an RP guild known as O T (Overlords of Trinsic) I feel like the rest of the community don't even know we exist and that they just don't care, personally I feel that the roleplayers, the ones who keep this game alive and the community thriving, have been left out in the dark by the rest of the community..

 

[Lord Frodo]

Well, yes but Atlantic has:
1) A huge population, whereas I have maybe 5 active people in my city. Without support for events and activities, how am I supposed to attract more people? Keep in mind that at most 10 people show up for any kind player run event or activity on Europa nowadays.
2) An EM. Europa had no EM for the first half of the period and now borrows Drach's EM, who simply doesn't seem to have time to interact with us.
3) Mesanna's attention. Because of 1, we don't get an equal share of that pie.

This sounds more like if there is not an item drop then the players of your shard could care less. Sad that peps are so gready.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I am Governor of New Magincia on Baja and requested some improvements. They were approved and have been built. The sites were the northern beach and the small peninsula near the the bank, along with some plants placed near stone pathways leading to the bank/warehouse.

That is because BAJA HAS A GREAT EM.

 

[Aurelius]

This sounds more like if there is not an item drop then the players of your shard could care less. Sad that peps are so gready.

Not so..

We have a smaller, but still reasonable, population, but the Governors system really didn't catch the interest of many, and given the lack of EM, not knowing how or why the Governors thing might work, the buggy start, clashes with commitments to guild hunts and other activities as well as real life (probably combined the hottest summer in years!) - it just never got off the ground. Same is true of a lot of player events, the turnout is low not because there's no 'gift' at the end (even the ones that offer prizes, cash and other stuff are not well attended), but because there are fewer people, less 'free time' from other group commitments, and (sadly) a general apathy about the game gradually spreading around.

The in-game auction audience holds up very well, because it's a well organised, established 'event' where there's often something of interest for everyone, but mostly we seem to be slowly slipping into decline....

As Velvathos mentions, the RP world still keeps fairly active - though I think even he'd admit it's a shadow of it's former glory, there is still activity there, though I appreciate it's not an attraction for everyone. Personally I feel we did seem to have a traditional 'rift' between the RP and non-RP players in the past (some made valiant attempts to bridge that, but I don't think hey ever really succeeded) and that distance still seems to be present nowadays - but I can't shake the feeling we are at best treading water, hoping for something to reignite general interest in things again.

Partly the frustration is that the Governors system might have had a chance to do just that, but for many reasons, it has not yet lived up to it's potential.

 

[Zosimus]

It is a RP tool as a sense the way the system is set up. It's part of the way to reconnect to players who enjoy RP in UO.

As you mentioned GW2 and their 2 weeks content constant updated to our living story which fulfills that need. I think the system that the devs here in UO implemented couldm be used as the same.

Lets use your Baja as an example the RP's and non-rp players put their "reasonable input" to their governors. The governors use those suggestions to bring to the King ( not sure who plays the king the EM or dev). They bring a suggestion to the Mesanna that grants the request.


Example request (with a little RP added) from a Governor from Baja

So the citizens of Brit has noticed more attacks on the lands outside of the city by Trolls. Reports come in that a large army of Trolls are heading their way to invade Brit. The citizens of Brit brace and prepare themselves for the invasions. The sounds of smithy's are making weapons and armors in preparations of the invasions. The buzzing and incantations of Magus are scouting out herbs and reagents to prepare for the invasion. Citizens that are able to fight are being recruited, warriors, paladins, mages and even from the dark arts, from around the lands are coming to aid in the defenses of Brit. Healers are preparing cots, bandages, and holy water for the wounded and dead.

The invasions starts with trickles then grows with Troll after Troll, the more they win the more land they take within the city. Now if the defenders push them back they regain the land.


Basics of the above

2 week invasion of Brit

no special items just slaying the mob and gaining loot.

RP's and non-rp players participate if they want to or not.

Outcome either the Trolls win or the Brits win.


Same but quick example for the city of Mag

Use a pirate invasion in the seas around the ccity


Same but quick example for the city of Trinsic

Dragon invasion.


Can be used randomly but also gives the RP a feel of saving the cities in the game. Plus it gives the players something to do in between the story arcs and EM events. So Baja has a Troll invasion but Catskills has a dragon invasion going on and Mag has a pirate invasion going on at LS and can be all going on at one time. That's what the system can be used for.


It can also be used for for people donating resources to build defenses around the city. So if the citizens of Brit want a wall to build around the city, they have to donate to the city rock they mine for. This can be an ongoing thing because once built it can deteriorate at a slow rate. If people quit donating the wall will eventually crumble into dust. If they keep donating it will not deteriate. So Brit on Napa wall is all solid and built. Brit on Chessy wall is half up because people are not donating as much and Siege has no wall.

I think it can be done correctly and well used if the devs and players would agree.

 

[SunWolf]

Many of us Atlantic Governor's work together, we cover all basis when we do events and some of us has been doing this since 98. WHEN you get help from an em or so it makes things easier, but when things are made, we cover all basis and do our own thing and really don't expect any help, though doesn't hurt to ask or let them know what we are planing. The biggest event problay on Atlantic was the Vesper Carninval and that was 100% players and with no em help. For the longer story lines rp like Tazar's protest the governor of Britain, there was extra guards to maintain order around Britain to get more of a feeling of what was going on while going in the town.
I enjoy it and as is my friends who are governors. There is times they get frustrated or stressed out but things tend to work out and everyone has fun in the end.

 

[WildStar]

What specifically did you do?

Ask verbally? E-Mail Did you submit a plan like it was a town banner? Etc.

-Galen's player

I emailed the EM with what I was requesting being as specific as possible in relation to location and items that I wanted move (as was the case with part of my request). I was also specific as possible with regards as to what I wanted done. The EM herself worked on the northern beach without input from me and we worked together on the other parts of my request.

WildStar

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I emailed the EM with what I was requesting being as specific as possible in relation to location and items that I wanted move (as was the case with part of my request). I was also specific as possible with regards as to what I wanted done. The EM herself worked on the northern beach without input from me and we worked together on the other parts of my request.

WildStar

Thank you.

-Galen's player