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Devs: Shard Shield Balance Suggestion

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Viper09

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I think you may need to read the OP again, tbh. Other ppl may of said what you think he is replying to but the OP didnt.
What? The OP was proposing a change to SS to allow the owners of them to sell tokens. One post simply replied that that it would make it unbalanced. My post was in response to one post only that went off on that reply that assumed the "unbalanced" remark was about SS in general (not about the proposition to allow people to sell the tokens).
 
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The Zog historian

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Either way it creates an economic advantage. Whether you want to justify it is another matter, but the advantage still exists.
That's a nice non-answer answer. Justifying is the issue here.

Of course it's an advantage -- and vets paid a lot to get it. Someone who spends money on post-secondary education will have an advantage over someone who didn't. Keeping an account open for 14 years is a lot of money sunk into getting a comped transfer every month, and a limited one at that.
 

Uvtha

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That's a nice non-answer answer. Justifying is the issue here.

Of course it's an advantage -- and vets paid a lot to get it. Someone who spends money on post-secondary education will have an advantage over someone who didn't. Keeping an account open for 14 years is a lot of money sunk into getting a comped transfer every month, and a limited one at that.

I don't think comparing working toward improving your education is the same as paying to have an account open for a lot of years. They didn't WORK for that advantage.
As I said before, unlike real life this is a game, to have fun with, and putting up this artificial barriers (disallowing trade of certain items) for the sake of making a small portion of the population feel special detracts from that IMO.
I have never liked the idea of vet rewards for that very reason, especially ones that give a functionality otherwise not achievable in game, and especially if you can't give them away or sell them because they won't work for lesser account ages.
 
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Merus

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That's a nice non-answer answer. Justifying is the issue here.

Of course it's an advantage -- and vets paid a lot to get it. Someone who spends money on post-secondary education will have an advantage over someone who didn't. Keeping an account open for 14 years is a lot of money sunk into getting a comped transfer every month, and a limited one at that.

But that was my point also. There can be reasonable debate over whether they advantage provided by the tokens is warranted. Most of what I have posted in this thread is related to the fact that some disagree that there is an advantage provided by the tokens, to which I believe there is.

Though not everyone shares my opinion, I believe the advantage they provide contributes the economic issues in the game. I believe that the ability to sell across shards without the transfer token cost should be available to all by means of a global vendor search. Making that available would not diminish the advantage the shard shields provide for those who are using them to move characters or suits at no cost verses those that would still need to purchase a transfer token to make that move. IMO, that still provides a valuable vet reward to those who have stuck around without creating imbalance in the economy.
 

Goldberg-Chessy

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But that was my point also. There can be reasonable debate over whether they advantage provided by the tokens is warranted. Most of what I have posted in this thread is related to the fact that some disagree that there is an advantage provided by the tokens, to which I believe there is.

Though not everyone shares my opinion, I believe the advantage they provide contributes the economic issues in the game. I believe that the ability to sell across shards without the transfer token cost should be available to all by means of a global vendor search. Making that available would not diminish the advantage the shard shields provide for those who are using them to move characters or suits at no cost verses those that would still need to purchase a transfer token to make that move. IMO, that still provides a valuable vet reward to those who have stuck around without creating imbalance in the economy.
What exactly is an economic imbalance and how exactly do shard shields cause it? So the UO economy was precisely balanced before shard shields but now is imbalanced? Lol at that.

A small group of very wealthy vet 'have nots' cant handle the idea that they cannot have every last thing in the game and all of a sudden they are all economy professors?

Do you realize how laughable that is?

15 and 16 year vets payed and supported UO for many years not knowing or caring if the game ended the next day and they were rewarded with a great item. Do the same or deal with it

Its that simple.
 

The Zog historian

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I don't think comparing working toward improving your education is the same as paying to have an account open for a lot of years. They didn't WORK for that advantage.
As I said before, unlike real life this is a game, to have fun with, and putting up this artificial barriers (disallowing trade of certain items) for the sake of making a small portion of the population feel special detracts from that IMO.
I have never liked the idea of vet rewards for that very reason, especially ones that give a functionality otherwise not achievable in game, and especially if you can't give them away or sell them because they won't work for lesser account ages.
It's not a matter of doing "work" for the advantage. It's doing something more, whether it's working, paying more, or simply being there longer. You can talk about "this is a game" and "fun," but ultimately UO is a business, and it was decided to give progressively nicer perqs to those players who've paid more than others.

I don't know if you were around when vet rewards were introduced, but a lot of people couldn't use the mounts, and there was the same jealousy as today. The answer stays the same: the rewards are rewards for certain players who haven't necessarily been around a long time, but who have paid a lot.

Do the math I've laid out today and prior. It's cheaper to have been around for just five years and do a couple dozen round-trips, than to have paid for a 14-year account.
 
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The Zog historian

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What exactly is an economic imbalance and how exactly do shard shields cause it? So the UO economy was precisely balanced before shard shields but now is imbalanced? Lol at that.

A small group of very wealthy vet 'have nots' cant handle the idea that they cannot have every last thing in the game and all of a sudden they are all economy professors?

Do you realize how laughable that is?

15 and 16 year vets payed and supported UO for many years not knowing or caring if the game ended the next day and they were rewarded with a great item. Do the same or deal with it

Its that simple.

In my case, six accounts from 1997 on, the youngest of which was created in 2001. If EA wants to throw me a bone for sinking five figures into their game, it's their business.
 

Warpig Inc

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And if the game closes down before they get there? Thats x years that everyone could have been benefiting.

And then I could blame them for caving to the crybabies for the death of the game. Bulls nuts on a field mouse. If you don't deserve it, you don't need it.
 
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Warpig Inc

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Well I mean allowing anyone to use the shields wouldn't change things. The same number of "free" tokens would be getting generated, as you would still need a 14 year vet to pick one and sell/give it.

But thats why I wouldn't have made this item in the first place.

BINGO! We have a winner. And coming in at a tie with the shields as a pure DUH HUH is the skill storing and transfering stones........... The most unbalance piece of pixels glued together is a "no fail" enhancing tool that is only earned through RL cash donations. That is a true advantage wrapped in greed.

Here is the fix for the shard shields. Doesn't make a difference what art they are..... once you transfer to another shard the token becomes a one way trip token back to the shard you left...........shields remain the year choice and tokens/shield account bound......................BAZINGAnswer : tokens produced from shields are to a RANDOM shard.
 
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The Zog historian

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But that was my point also. There can be reasonable debate over whether they advantage provided by the tokens is warranted. Most of what I have posted in this thread is related to the fact that some disagree that there is an advantage provided by the tokens, to which I believe there is.

Though not everyone shares my opinion, I believe the advantage they provide contributes the economic issues in the game. I believe that the ability to sell across shards without the transfer token cost should be available to all by means of a global vendor search. Making that available would not diminish the advantage the shard shields provide for those who are using them to move characters or suits at no cost verses those that would still need to purchase a transfer token to make that move. IMO, that still provides a valuable vet reward to those who have stuck around without creating imbalance in the economy.

Of course there's going to be an advantage of using the tokens, just like there's an advantage to ethereal mounts. However, transfers actually do the opposite of the "imbalance" you think they create. As I have pointed out in previous threads, transfer tokens actually equalize supply and prices across shards, while expanding an individual's community. Transfer tokens make it feasible to continue playing on a lower-populated shard where scrolls and rares generally aren't available, and to visit friends on others. For all the money some of us have put into UO, it's nice to get something back for loyalty.
 

The Zog historian

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BINGO! We have a winner. And coming in at a tie with the shields as a pure DUH HUH is the skill storing and transfering stones........... The most unbalance piece of pixels glued together is a "no fail" enhancing tool that is only earned through RL cash donations. That is a true advantage wrapped in greed.
Anyone can buy the tool and use it. It's no more "unbalance" than paying extra for additional accounts.

If you don't like them, you are perfectly free to stay away from them.

Here is the fix for the shard shields. Doesn't make a difference what art they are..... once you transfer to another shard the token becomes a one way trip token back to the shard you left...........shields remain the year choice and tokens/shield account bound......................BAZINGAnswer : tokens produced from shields are to a RANDOM shard.

Are you in some contest for Worst UO Idea Ever? Please think about what you're suggesting.
 

SunWolf

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Uo should reset the price for 9.99 to make it more fair for everyone to do transfers and such. Might bring more cash in the long run aswell. I for one won't buy one for 20 bucks but 10 bucks is easier to have exta laying around to move something.
 

Lord Nabin

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I have no issues with the shard shields. They are a very nice vet reward for those who have been with Ultima through the thick and thin.

Let's keep in mind that buying and selling across shards is one of many types of play styles. There are dozens of play styles out there and dozens of advantages for each and ever play style. We could debate each one to all ends if we wanted to.

I think we should say thanks for the creativeness and then start a thread of other things we might want to see.

Personally I look forward to some of the vet rewards I might earn over time and sometimes I could care less about what is offered.

The best part is I get to choose whether I wish to use them or not based on what they do for my game play style
 

Warpig Inc

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Anyone can buy the tool and use it. It's no more "unbalance" than paying extra for additional accounts.

If you don't like them, you are perfectly free to stay away from them.

And the same could be said about transfer tokens. Shard Shields are a great reward for vets. Problem comes up when something can be had ingame and from the store. Kinda puts a cash value to it. Any use of the term game economy is a joke considering how much of the gold out there was AFK farmed or duped. A player pays for an extra account for extra housing and to cover more templates without dealing with the skill stone suffle. The very reason stoning skills put a hole in EA's wallet. An extra house or range of character templates has not improved a players ability to win a fight. A player dressed and armed in enhanced gear that had a 1 in 1,000,000 chance to survive. I can see how that might go over your head in a PVP fight. The tool is only obtained through RL cash and the greatest reason UO would fail as a F2P game. The store stocking in a F2P relm would fail with their greed and complete lack of knowing how things work in the game. Shard shields only bring tears in the "I Win UO!" fight by who has the fattest museum or bankbox.




Are you in some contest for Worst UO Idea Ever? Please think about what you're suggesting.

Nope. Random shard generation would be the grounds to remove the tokens from being account bound. Once the gold is just a number tied to an account then getting gold from a bankbox from any shard is no longer an issue. Once the all shards linked auction house is up then moving/selling items is out of shard transfer hands. ("HEY!" money grubbers. Sell in the store vendor placement tokens for RL cash. Vendors that are the way the all shards auction house works selling/buying while making a profit in shard vendor token sales.) With the coming of the gold in bankbox and auction house. Shard transfer will be for vacationing and seeing new players in new lands. All that shard transfering now is good for is trying to take advantage of other players to make more gold.

Right now a transfer token can be gotten ingame and out if you want and/or deserve it. The ability to transfer shards does not win a fight or kill Slasher faster. It just shuffles the market of goods at dealers risk. The enhancing tool is only gotten from the store and depends on how big your RL wallet is. The tool does effect the ability of a character to fight. They have gear that wouldn't be around without the tool. Now if the tool only worked with Oaken Wood, Golden Granite, Gold Ingots and Spine Leather then tamers would be accused of favortism. Instead only high end refinements are wanted for wood armor just as the tool sees mostly wood enhancement. I know only tamers are wanting the extra refinement bonuses on their lucky wooden suits. It is very unbalanced when a tool can only be had with RL cash and does what it does. When a thread is started about how shard transfering helped in overwelming others in a champ raid, then it can earn an imbalanced stamp. Are players really enjoying the game right if how much gold they have or how awsome their museum is, is all that drives them? Ahh yes, we are back to the players choice argument. And when it comes down to what makes You, ME and Them happy, there is no winner if Others are made the judges.


They know where they want to go with the game. Want to make gold stop living in the moment. Gamble on the future and strike it rich or get bitten by the river. Either way. If your not having fun, your doing UO wrong.
 
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The Zog historian

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And the same could be said about transfer tokens. Shard Shields are a great reward for vets. Problem comes up when something can be had ingame and from the store. Kinda puts a cash value to it. Any use of the term game economy is a joke considering how much of the gold out there was AFK farmed or duped. A player pays for an extra account for extra housing and to cover more templates without dealing with the skill stone suffle. The very reason stoning skills put a hole in EA's wallet. An extra house or range of character templates has not improved a players ability to win a fight. A player dressed and armed in enhanced gear that had a 1 in 1,000,000 chance to survive. I can see how that might go over your head in a PVP fight. The tool is only obtained through RL cash and the greatest reason UO would fail as a F2P game. The store stocking in a F2P relm would fail with their greed and complete lack of knowing how things work in the game. Shard shields only bring tears in the "I Win UO!" fight by who has the fattest museum or bankbox.
What you just did is make a second reason that transfer tokens should remain account-bound. The primary is that it would cut into revenue from the sale of full transfer tokens.

So you really believe that my suit or anyone else's is overpowered because it cost $5 to create, which anybody else and his uncle could (and often) do. I don't understand your fear, but now it's clear you have it. I use the tool for both PvM and PvP characters, which in the latter certainly gives me an edge, but not over someone who did the same thing.

Nope. Random shard generation would be the grounds to remove the tokens from being account bound. Once the gold is just a number tied to an account then getting gold from a bankbox from any shard is no longer an issue. Once the all shards linked auction house is up then moving/selling items is out of shard transfer hands. ("HEY!" money grubbers. Sell in the store vendor placement tokens for RL cash. Vendors that are the way the all shards auction house works selling/buying while making a profit in shard vendor token sales.) With the coming of the gold in bankbox and auction house. Shard transfer will be for vacationing and seeing new players in new lands. All that shard transfering now is good for is trying to take advantage of other players to make more gold.
You really should have stopped before digging yourself deeper. All you did was suggest an absurd change that requires even more absurd changes. Your "grounds" require an overhaul not just of gold storage, but how the servers store data. To prevent bugs and exploits, the solution would be a separate, central server just for storing gold information, which would then have its own bugs and exploits. Considering the current UO team having been cut back, I don't see them getting extra hardware in the first place.

Of course people selling on other shards are looking to make more gold, but they no more "take advantage of other players" than someone who opens a boutique in Beverly Hills versus Compton, or a densely populated East Coast city versus a Southwest ghost town. Why shouldn't a seller try to maximize the price?

But as I've pointed out, what transfer tokens actually do is stabilize things across all shards. I realize this is above your head, but the "low transportation cost" derided by some forum denizens is the expected result of a few economic theories, particularly Samuelson's factor prize equalization. Sixty-five years ago it was groundbreaking, while today it seems obvious, and the predicted effects are in fact very apparent in UO. Someone from a small shard can transfer to Atlantic with something to sell, but the increased supply will drive down Atlantic's market price, and sellers looking to return home quickly might accept a price lower than Atlantic's norm but above their home shards' norm. The converse effect is that someone staying on a home shard might have to transfer to Atlantic or another shard to find something, thus paying a higher price, but it's not like wages vary among shards.

Right now a transfer token can be gotten ingame and out if you want and/or deserve it. The ability to transfer shards does not win a fight or kill Slasher faster. It just shuffles the market of goods at dealers risk. The enhancing tool is only gotten from the store and depends on how big your RL wallet is. The tool does effect the ability of a character to fight. They have gear that wouldn't be around without the tool. Now if the tool only worked with Oaken Wood, Golden Granite, Gold Ingots and Spine Leather then tamers would be accused of favortism. Instead only high end refinements are wanted for wood armor just as the tool sees mostly wood enhancement. I know only tamers are wanting the extra refinement bonuses on their lucky wooden suits. It is very unbalanced when a tool can only be had with RL cash and does what it does. When a thread is started about how shard transfering helped in overwelming others in a champ raid, then it can earn an imbalanced stamp. Are players really enjoying the game right if how much gold they have or how awsome their museum is, is all that drives them? Ahh yes, we are back to the players choice argument. And when it comes down to what makes You, ME and Them happy, there is no winner if Others are made the judges.
Again, you have this irrational fear of someone winning UO by spending a few more dollars than others, whose advantage is no different than paying for a second account with more bank and house storage, with either being something anybody else can do. What about the Seas expansion that adds 20% to bank storage, do you decry that as well? By your own logic, you might as well say, "It is very unbalanced when a second house can only be had with RL cash and does what it does."

It may be a "game," but it's still a business. Those who pay more into EA's coffers should get more out of it. I buy several enhancement tools a year on top of paying for six accounts with eight houses. My reward for not letting one of the oldest accounts lapse is that it holds three grandfathered houses.

[quoteThey know where they want to go with the game. Want to make gold stop living in the moment. Gamble on the future and strike it rich or get bitten by the river. Either way. If your not having fun, your doing UO wrong.[/quote]

You've gone from prating to a non sequitur. What are you trying to say with "Want to make gold stop living in the moment," what is this "get bitten by the river" nonsense, and what makes you think I'm not having fun?
 
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Warpig Inc

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They are ideals. Would be amazed by the crap as some call it I rolled out there that is part of the game now. I fish , fill BoDs and join a community hunt at times. Care less what others goals are. I do care when the masses are not happy or things go on in the game that really shows who has been dropped on their head. I worry about the games future so the pixel juggling can go on. It is hard for a juggler to do their best work if they have to keep reaching for their wallet.

There has been nothing released that they are NOT going ahead with the unified gold to an account through the bankbox across shards, vannishing checks & coins. There is still the push for a vendor search for prices and some would like the vendor auction house across shards. Be hell lot more cash to be made through the store selling tokens for vendors that bridge the shards. Not that an easy way to price items from some vendor search has not happened ingame yet.

I have my IMO blinders on as do most. All the big words in the world don't help if you don't experience life. Or even reconize a common gambling term. Word smith might have figured that out being the first word in the sentence was Gamble. Live a little and go play some holdem.

I will go shuffle some more BODs, toss more rubble and checks into the trash. Need to shut down the account holding the oldest Luna house on LS. And the 12 choices for vet rewards will go to mining carts or sheds and not shard shields. Account bound or not. They were still a stupid ideal if they really needed to make money to keep the game going. Let alone make improvements to UO through a bigger workforce. And not even a record sales at the store will help when EA uses most those earning on other games.
 
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CovenantX

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Once the gold is just a number tied to an account then getting gold from a bankbox from any shard is no longer an issue. Once the all shards linked auction house is up then moving/selling items is out of shard transfer hands.
This is assuming it will work how we think it would, I'm hoping it's going to be like this too. the economy would balance out across all shards, which is probably one of the main focuses of even implementing this gold conversion/auction house in the first place.

But I agree, it's one of the main reasons I held off so long without picking my shard-shields, I had the option to pick them when came out with my two main accounts, the only thing I would gain from shard shields, would be, easier access to pvp (on shards I don't have characters on), and a place to sell my un-needed items much easier, faster, and at a better (higher) price.

So hopefully, with the gold conversion & Auction house, the economy would balance out. (which is why the shard xfers/shield xfers are considered "imbalanced")

The ability to transfer shards does not win a fight or kill Slasher faster. It just shuffles the market of goods at dealers risk. The enhancing tool is only gotten from the store and depends on how big your RL wallet is. The tool does effect the ability of a character to fight. They have gear that wouldn't be around without the tool.
Yes, I'm not a fan of spending RL cash on pixels, (game-time, & content doesn't is fine) but if there's a monthly subscription, I don't believe there needs to be items such as a forged metal of artifacts, that makes this much a difference in character functionality, by gaining stats or resistance increase, on items that would most likely be broken and completely useless, that it should be sold for real money.

Forged Metal of Artifacts, would have made an amazing gold sink: Pay an npc 1 mil gold to enhance an item with Your resources, or have a check in your pack as an additional resource needed to enhance at 100%

At this point I wouldn't mind it being a vet-reward, especially since the xfer shields came out. Maybe add a "Owned by Noone" tag to items enhanced with it. so only the person to first equip the item would be the only one able to use it. I think that would be good enough to make this tool & the one sold at the store to co-exist, people wouldn't be able to sell their items once they've been enhanced & equip (The limitation).
 

Lord Frodo

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This is assuming it will work how we think it would, I'm hoping it's going to be like this too. the economy would balance out across all shards, which is probably one of the main focuses of even implementing this gold conversion/auction house in the first place.
Shard Shields should have help balance out the economy so why do you think an all shards linked auction house will do this. What will happen is everybody will end up paying Alt prices for everything, nothing will go down and the smaller shards will be hurt. Honestly do you think for one secound that Alt sellers are going to sit by and not want to get thier inflated prices.
 

The Zog historian

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They are ideals. Would be amazed by the crap as some call it I rolled out there that is part of the game now. I fish , fill BoDs and join a community hunt at times. Care less what others goals are. I do care when the masses are not happy or things go on in the game that really shows who has been dropped on their head. I worry about the games future so the pixel juggling can go on. It is hard for a juggler to do their best work if they have to keep reaching for their wallet.
What are you trying to say here? What are ideals?

There has been nothing released that they are NOT going ahead with the unified gold to an account through the bankbox across shards, vannishing checks & coins. There is still the push for a vendor search for prices and some would like the vendor auction house across shards. Be hell lot more cash to be made through the store selling tokens for vendors that bridge the shards. Not that an easy way to price items from some vendor search has not happened ingame yet.
Conversely, we haven't seen anything definitive that "unified gold" is going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.

I have my IMO blinders on as do most. All the big words in the world don't help if you don't experience life. Or even reconize a common gambling term. Word smith might have figured that out being the first word in the sentence was Gamble. Live a little and go play some holdem.
Actually, I do, and I tend to clean up quite nicely. In playing from Connecticut to Atlantic City to Vegas, I have never heard anyone say "bitten by the river."

https://www.google.com/search?q=poker+"bitten+by+the+river"

https://www.google.com/search?q=poker+bitten+river

Now I, by contrast, reference specific economists and specific economic theories which are unmistakable.
 

The Zog historian

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Shard Shields should have help balance out the economy so why do you think an all shards linked auction house will do this. What will happen is everybody will end up paying Alt prices for everything, nothing will go down and the smaller shards will be hurt. Honestly do you think for one secound that Alt sellers are going to sit by and not want to get thier inflated prices.

Well, not necessarily, since increased supply should drive down prices. In the end things should equal out and reach a price in between.
 

manufacturedsoul

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Either way it creates an economic advantage. Whether you want to justify it is another matter, but the advantage still exists.
If you tried hard enough you could find some bs advantage in anything. Your point is mute not to mention
This horse has been beat enough already. You won't be getting a shard shield till your 14 years
accept it and move on. Coming here and crying with different accounts every othe month
Won't change things in your favor.
 

CovenantX

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Shard Shields should have help balance out the economy so why do you think an all shards linked auction house will do this.
How would Shard shields, or character transfers in general help balance out the economy? I could see if Xfers were free, or shard shields were available to everyone, but this is not the case.

What will happen is everybody will end up paying Alt prices for everything, nothing will go down and the smaller shards will be hurt. Honestly do you think for one secound that Alt sellers are going to sit by and not want to get thier inflated prices.
Hehe, this is where the balance comes in.... More people (dead shards) have access to buy and/or sell their items, from anyone, on any shard.
Some items may drop in price, while others increase, or stay the same. but giving everyone access to buy/sell, means you wouldn't need to play on the only shard, that has everything for sale.
how about you go look at the trade forums, and see how many people are NOT accepting gold on Atlantic?
 

Lady Storm

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Uvtha to answer your question..

When I see a thread that has been done to death not just a handful of times in under a few months and gets heated as this debate on who has and hasn't the right to own or not to own this vet reward. I can see it getting out of hand.
Not one of us here has any real say in what the DEV add to the reward system, oh granted ideas and such are read and considered if warranted. But and this is where many forget their place in the food chain of EA.
This subject boils down to a small handful of reasons why to give the shields to all or why they should be removed on one hand and a reasonable reason they should be left alone.

I have heard the following...

1. They should be open to all ages and not account bound- to this that makes them sellable in game.
2. They will unbalance the game.... get rid of them.
3. Totally unfair to place age limits on all rewards.
4. Leave them alone I will be old enough soon to have a few.
5. Age is fine let them earn the time I have.
6. I use the shields to visit and play other shards, I move things for others who don't have them.

We have had the shields for over a year and I do not see a large imbalance to the game, in fact I do not see them doing much but enhancing the few who do own and their friends is helping share the use.
I suspect that with the opening of the shields to all and the sale ability of them a bigger balance problem occurring however. Many of the element out there that dupes and cheats the game would snap up all they found as this would make all at idoc's drop to the ground instead of poofing. and any who sold theirs would be placing them in the same boat.
The game misusers would horde them for their private use and that's where the real trouble would develop with cheaters.
Limits are there for reasons.. you would think the people who want to rid them of the shields would be happy of the age limit.
Many 12 to 15 year vets in the game put in long years of game play and have earned the right by that time to have the right to own them. To diminish the age to own or remove it would be thumbing the nose to all who paid and played all those years.
We have seen here on Stratics many offer others transport of goods to other shards when they use their shields tokens. On a small scale this has been a community building offer that has been used and has not hurt the sales of Advanced Tokens... however that duping of them hurt far more then the Shard Shields ever could have.

Now if all can keep the conversation civil and rational I agree with Petra... but I did see before she cleaned up the place a sure sign that the thread was going south fast.
 
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Veritas et Sapientia

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
No item in the 15 year history of UO provides more of an advantage than Shard Shield tokens. They're the most ******** item EVER. If there going to be made available to players then they need to be made available to all players like soulstones via the gamestore. No way an item like that should be available to only a portion of the playerbase.

You know damn well something is wrong when players suggest than an item needs to be removed from the game.

I can only roll my eyes at comments such as "I'm fine with Shard Shields":rolleyes: --I'm sure all of you have Shard Shields are fine with them as is everyone else who has them. Or if your so filthy rich in the game it doesn't mater. Buying and trading isn't a playstyle it's an integral part of UO. Very few players with the exception of Siege players, and even them, probably play on more than one shard. Because the playerbase is shrinking it's even more pertinent to cross shard trade if you want access to items and sell your goods. It's not by chance or choice I'm on Atlantic. If I could sell my wares on Sonoma and buy items I want there I would never step foot on Atlantic.

"I don't see the advantage of Shard Shields". "Shard shields aren't being used that way" "Shard Shields don't effect me" :rolleyes: Gimme break.

I don't care what your Veteran status is there should always be a level playing field to ALL players regardless which is why this topic continues to pop up.

Shard Shields have created an unlevel playing field and unfair advantage when it comes to manipulating the Economy.

We don't see threads popping up about people asking for Statuettes, Seed Boxes or Garden Sheds i.e the "I want what you have"...what we want a level playing field.

It's not worth my time to explain and I won't even bother giving out the numerous situations where Shard Shield provide a huge advantage economically by allowing players to take items off shards and bring them to others tripling and quadrupling their money. All I can say is it must be nice. "I don't use my Shard Shields that way"....Yeah right!:talktothehand:

Merus and Uthva are spot on.

Uthva is right about Younger players are getting trampled and left in the dust and there is a feeling of unfairness. I am seriously disgruntled by Shard Shields because of the advantage it provides by allowing players to take items off shards of their choosing and take it to Atlantic to sell for 400-500% markup.

Merus is right that Shard Shields either need to be available to everyone or there needs to be ONE global ecomony where you can buy and sell items across all shards. This would remove the advantage of Shard Shields and players wouldn't have a legitmate gripe. That's the answer to make it a level playing field or start selling the Shard Shields at the store or make them a 1st Year Pick.

Shard shields are totally ridiculous!
 
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The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
No item in the 15 year history of UO provides more of an advantage than Shard Shield tokens. They're the most ******** item EVER. If there going to be made available to players then they need to be made available to all players like soulstones via the gamestore. No way an item like that should be available to only a portion of the playerbase.

(emphasis added)

So Storm, what was that you were saying about keeping things civil and rational?

The only incivility and irrationality I've seen are from jealous players who don't stop to think how many thousands of dollars old-timers have sunk into the game to get a little back.
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
How would Shard shields, or character transfers in general help balance out the economy? I could see if Xfers were free, or shard shields were available to everyone, but this is not the case.

Hehe, this is where the balance comes in.... More people (dead shards) have access to buy and/or sell their items, from anyone, on any shard.
Some items may drop in price, while others increase, or stay the same. but giving everyone access to buy/sell, means you wouldn't need to play on the only shard, that has everything for sale.
how about you go look at the trade forums, and see how many people are NOT accepting gold on Atlantic?
Any conduit between two separate areas helps to equalize supply and demand. Getting certain 120s requires that I go to other shards, partially from my shard's low population, and partially from my shard's sellers sometimes going elsewhere for higher prices. But in the end, low prices and low supply will go up, while high prices and the number of "disappointed buyers" (those who couldn't get the item they wanted) will come down.
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Any conduit between two separate areas helps to equalize supply and demand. Getting certain 120s requires that I go to other shards, partially from my shard's low population, and partially from my shard's sellers sometimes going elsewhere for higher prices. But in the end, low prices and low supply will go up, while high prices and the number of "disappointed buyers" (those who couldn't get the item they wanted) will come down.
Right, but that's not equalizing the economy, that's people taking advantage of buy-low, sell-high. If you didn't need to xfer to buy/sell, the prices of items would all have a more balanced price.
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
You know damn well something is wrong when players suggest than an item needs to be removed from the game.
:facepalm:
You mean the hand full of players here on Stratics that are saying this and does not even come close to a fair number of players considering the number of players that play UO and do not post here. You are asking the Devs to listen to a small hand full of players to pick and choose what UO does and does not do.
 

Pfloyd

Colorblind Collector
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I've said it before...they should just allow the people who want to be considered vets of (insert year here), the ability to for the SAME $$$ that those who are considered that already for the same as the most expensive monthly payment there is. I don't even care if they leave the "Replica" off the character names off that account. I think they would be willing to pay for a few more Dev's to work on this game if given the money to. Then the vets who whine that they wasted their choices over the years on "useless" choices get the ability to pay for the lost choices for $$$.
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Right, but that's not equalizing the economy, that's people taking advantage of buy-low, sell-high. If you didn't need to xfer to buy/sell, the prices of items would all have a more balanced price.
It is equalizing, and it's not just the arbitrage you think it is. You're also thinking "balanced" only for a locality, not the whole.

If I can sell my widgets locally for no more than $5, but I could for $15 on the other side of the country, then for $5 per unit in transportation costs I might initially ask $14. The sellers on the other side of the country getting $15 then drop their price to compete, and it stabilizes at, say, $12. In my locality, people would have to start offering more to get my business. In the end it brings me more profit, profit is reduced for those who were charging more on the other side of the country, the lower price means a greater consumer surplus for buyers on the other side of the country, and buyers local to me have a reduced consumer surplus. All extremes are brought to the middle.
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I've said it before...they should just allow the people who want to be considered vets of (insert year here), the ability to for the SAME $$$ that those who are considered that already for the same as the most expensive monthly payment there is. I don't even care if they leave the "Replica" off the character names off that account. I think they would be willing to pay for a few more Dev's to work on this game if given the money to. Then the vets who whine that they wasted their choices over the years on "useless" choices get the ability to pay for the lost choices for $$$.

I've supported this in the past, but I don't know if players would risk that the game will still be around. Let's say you have a 10-year account. Would you really plunk down $480 right now just to get a vet reward once per month? Maybe. A 5-year account? I wouldn't.
 

Pfloyd

Colorblind Collector
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I've supported this in the past, but I don't know if players would risk that the game will still be around. Let's say you have a 10-year account. Would you really plunk down $480 right now just to get a vet reward once per month? Maybe. A 5-year account? I wouldn't.
You I think have hit it right on the head...that is why they are Vet rewards and not just called Vet rewards.
 

Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
*smacks forehead*
Pfloyd ok you can have any player pay for they years to catch up.... they have to pay at todays rate the full 15 year subscription at todays rate minus the paid time already paid in.... then and only then will I even think to say ok. Your words not mine... *digs out calc* hmmm 12 months per x 12.99 the average sub rate for a month of UO x 15 years.
ok that's in math terms:
...$12.99
x 12
______________
$155.88
x 15
___________________
$2338.20
I can see it now..... the dev say:
OK pay up....................... then you can have a shard shield for 1 account.
Cause that is basically what a UO player from day one has paid minus the x pacs and goodies bought at the game store for UO.
 

Veritas et Sapientia

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
The only incivility and irrationality I've seen are from jealous players who don't stop to think how many thousands of dollars old-timers have sunk into the game to get a little back.

I have 4 accounts over 6 years which equates to 24 years of Veteran Status and thousands of dollars I've sunk into Ultima Online.

Is there some form I can filll out being that I've spent thousands of dollars over the years so I too can have an unfair advantage over other players who haven't sunk as much money into the game as me?

Somoene post the URL please for the "I deserve an advantage over other players form".

And while were at it let's rename the Veteran Rewards program to the Paid Subscription Reward program.
 

Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Gee kiddo then what should I be able to get with my 53 accounts? get real with the math
I am sorry your 4 daughters at 6 years old each cant marry your best friend cause they add up to 24 years old..... same analogy
 

Veritas et Sapientia

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
I thought everyone was talkin' about money. It's all about the Benjamin right? That's what constitutes Veteran status and in that case I qualify. I've put thousands of dollars into this game and continue to do so.

I have all my credit card transactions relating to my UO accounts which can prove I've paid more than 15 Years worth of Ultima Online subscriptions, well over 24 years to be exact.

Should I email Messana all my credit card transactions or do you think it be easier if she links my "Paid Account Reward Years" to my UOMythic Account Management page?
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Honestly, I don't care about all this drama surrounding shard shields. I will probably never get one, and yet, I am fine with them. Thought I must say, the whole argument of "I have put X amount of money into this game and thus I deserve" is ridiculous. You get what you deserve each month you pay for, the ability to play a game and have fun.
 
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Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
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UNLEASHED
I thought everyone was talkin' about money. It's all about the Benjamin right? That's what constitutes Veteran status and in that case I qualify. I've put thousands of dollars into this game and continue to do so.

I have all my credit card transactions relating to my UO accounts which can prove I've paid more than 15 Years worth of Ultima Online subscriptions, well over 24 years to be exact.

Should I email Messana all my credit card transactions or do you think it be easier if she links my "Paid Account Reward Years" to my UOMythic Account Management page?
:facepalm:LOL I have 2 accounts that add up to more than that, will not add in the others. Good try.
 

Goldberg-Chessy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I have 4 accounts over 6 years which equates to 24 years of Veteran Status and thousands of dollars I've sunk into Ultima Online.

Is there some form I can filll out being that I've spent thousands of dollars over the years so I too can have an unfair advantage over other players who haven't sunk as much money into the game as me?

Somoene post the URL please for the "I deserve an advantage over other players form".

And while were at it let's rename the Veteran Rewards program to the Paid Subscription Reward program.

Too funny. You are so consumed by something you cannot have that you will say any nonsense.

Do you not understand that the rewards were created as a token of appreciation for long term loyalty?

Opening up multiple accounts to pay more monthly bills in no way equals long term loyalty. Were you there at the beginning to support UO? Nope.

Will you also get a 14 year vet reward if you stick around another 8 years and the game doesn't fold? Yes.

When talking about vet rewards does it make a difference that the game may fold before you get to 14 years? Of course not.
When I started paying and playing and supporting UO 15 years ago I also did not know how long the game would be around.

When Ethys first came out and were very game changing I had accounts that were unable to use them. It sucked but I sure as hell didn't come to a website to cry unfair and whine about it. I just played through and waited for my turn.
Were you around when this happened? I doubt it.

*shakes head*
 
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