NEWS [UO.Com] Publish 81.0 Comes to TC1

[kelmo]

To be honest... I would like to keep the discussion to a single thread. I would like to remove every post that is insulting and/or offers absolutely no constructive feedback as they are a waste of time and space.

I am an experienced Uhall moderator though... I know how this routine goes. First the thrashing and flailing. Concrete statements of how the devs have no clue and should listen to the players. (though which players is still up for debate). We get to hear how many accounts players have and how many are quitting and taking their friends with them.

I do not even remember my first rodeo... it was so long ago.

 

[chise2]

No, i mean that they know about the stam issue on part 1, the formulas are broken and need to be repaired, but that doesnt mean anything about part 2.

I hope like most people, that part 2 will be something about the materials we use on armors, to make them something like wood ones.

On friday when they answered some questions one had to do with highseas content and something was mentioned about part of phase 2 being able to further customize your armor. I have some ideas of what they may be but will wait and see what they say. Hopefully we find out something soon.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Well I am not a moderator and ultimately will defer to your judgement on this matter. Cleaning of insults definately never bothers me.

My general feelings on this issue would be: It might be better at this point in time to just let the threads sort themselves out until the next set of publish notes comes out, and then enact tighter control of created threads on the same subject. Many of the threads were (very passionately) started with different purposes and to me it would be a shame to have anyone feel slighted. Granted it can be difficult to find all the quality posts, but the developers have said they are reading (they just have more to read...), and often bookmark posts they find helpful. In the future we can certainly help more with stricter control, it would just be quite jarring at this point in time to merge so many threads with the vast amount of posts there are on this topic.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

The problem is they are trying to make armor 'balanced' by adding MORE complexity. I'm ok that they change it - but how about reducing complexity when you do so in order to attract new players. Less complexity = good. The game is so complex only the vets can understand it and new players are overwhelmed. Not good.

This. I have not come across any other game, single player or otherwise, with an armour system as complex and bloated as exists in UO currently. It's not even logical either. The heavy armour types that you would assume provide more protection don't, and infact using them puts you at a disadvantage. Many of the weapon/armour properties are obtuse and the whole system lacks any kind of intuitiveness.

For example lets take this mana phase thing. I have never owned a mana phasing orb - I don't know what they do so I never spent the gold on one. The name doesn't give me much of a clue either except to suggest it involves mana somewhere. And there is nowhere people can go to quickly get that information. And now they are adding this property to armour it seems (assuming it is the same thing).

I'm not really sure what their actual design goal is with these changes. It's certainly not simplifying the system. And I'm not sure if one of the goals is "make plate a viable option".

 

[chise2]

I'm guessing it was to improve the use of the other armor. Not necessarily because it was broken. If there were no changes to leather any slight improvements to the others wouldn't give enough incentive to use it because leather armor is still medable and provides all the extra mods and resists you need.

Pretty much this sure you could use bone studded and metal armor now. But in most cases you would be putting yourself at a disadvantage to those that just wore leather. Wood is useful I guess mainly because of the different bonuses wood provides.

 

[kelmo]

Well I am not a moderator...

*smiles* There will be raging for a while.

 

[chise2]

As it stands now, since they are doing away with the leather stam loss pretty much all other armor changes made do not hold any ground. (No one is going to wear non medable plate for a ssi debuff when its a flat 10% across all non medable armor). As suggested before, I hope they simply push the armor changes off onto the following publish(es).

Let us test the weapon and combat changes etc for now.

I don;t know I think it is possible they kept the other stamina changes to nonmed armors. They might just be using the performance of leather/other armors on live as a base to start from and going up from there. Which is how the stamina changes to armor should have worked in the first place. However this needs to be clarified because they are often not very clear on exactly what they mean and what this could mean is they are dropping the stamina changes to armor altogether.

 

[Theo_GL]

The way it is currently positioned, you cant balance it without more complexity. I would guess that people aren't spending 50m on leather armor but rather on arties and peerless drops.

Armor Cost :

Assume you are using some level of reforging:
Horned Kit/Ash Saw/Runics : 1m Gold
Materials : 10k (burn 400 leather at 25 per, or ingots or whatever) Keep in mind you have to craft 10-20 of something to get the right 'resist spreads' on your EX items.
Imbue 4 properties
* Main Property = 5 Relics and special ingredient (MR 2 for example) 50k relics and 500k special ingredient
* 3 Off Properties = 7-8 gems (7k) and 4-5 essence or residue(10k ish) so assume 20k per property x3 = 60k and last 2 will fail alot so say 100k cost on average
* Include powder of fort from 40 dur to 240 is 2 vials at 250k total

So one piece of armor = 1m + 10k + 550k + 100k + 250k = 1.81m

A six piece suit is then approx 11m or so.
Now figure that if you want to 'enhance' with special material like heartwood or barbed leather or whatever you either : fail a ton of times (at a 1.81m cost each time) or use a forged metal artifact tool that costs about 30m for 10 charges or 3mil a charge.

So in base suit building you are talking 11 + 18 or 38m in materials to make a suit using a forged metal tool. Yes you can 'gather' this stuff but that is the opportunity cost (ie what could I SELL the stuff for) so that is what it is worth. If I am crafting a full blown suit for someone - don't even talk to me unless you want to pay me 30-40m. Otherwise it is a waste of my time.

This is why jacking with peoples armor is so sensitive. There is alot invested in just a 6 piece crafted suit - let alone if you throw in some 'matching' artifacts.

Now if you are playing the runic game and jacking with a barbed kit - you might get lucky - but you will spend at least 1 kit (15 tries) per armor piece so you are talking at least 2m x 6 or 12m + .75m in POF for 12.75m suit but unlikely to have your preferred properties.

Welcome to the world of a crafter... Its expensive.

 

[Winker]

Armor Cost :

Assume you are using some level of reforging:
Horned Kit/Ash Saw/Runics : 1m Gold
Materials : 10k (burn 400 leather at 25 per, or ingots or whatever) Keep in mind you have to craft 10-20 of something to get the right 'resist spreads' on your EX items.
Imbue 4 properties
* Main Property = 5 Relics and special ingredient (MR 2 for example) 50k relics and 500k special ingredient
* 3 Off Properties = 7-8 gems (7k) and 4-5 essence or residue(10k ish) so assume 20k per property x3 = 60k and last 2 will fail alot so say 100k cost on average
* Include powder of fort from 40 dur to 240 is 2 vials at 250k total

So one piece of armor = 1m + 10k + 550k + 100k + 250k = 1.81m

A six piece suit is then approx 11m or so.
Now figure that if you want to 'enhance' with special material like heartwood or barbed leather or whatever you either : fail a ton of times (at a 1.81m cost each time) or use a forged metal artifact tool that costs about 30m for 10 charges or 3mil a charge.

So in base suit building you are talking 11 + 18 or 38m in materials to make a suit using a forged metal tool. Yes you can 'gather' this stuff but that is the opportunity cost (ie what could I SELL the stuff for) so that is what it is worth. If I am crafting a full blown suit for someone - don't even talk to me unless you want to pay me 30-40m. Otherwise it is a waste of my time.

This is why jacking with peoples armor is so sensitive. There is alot invested in just a 6 piece crafted suit - let alone if you throw in some 'matching' artifacts.

Now if you are playing the runic game and jacking with a barbed kit - you might get lucky - but you will spend at least 1 kit (15 tries) per armor piece so you are talking at least 2m x 6 or 12m + .75m in POF for 12.75m suit but unlikely to have your preferred properties.

Welcome to the world of a crafter... Its expensive.

And if everyone had to upgrade at the same time you can double or triple that cost as the materials are going to get scarce

 

[Gheed]

It seems that Leather Armor on Test will now be the same as every other armor type on prod regarding it having 0 effect on stamina lost from damage taken. Other types of armor will provide reduction on stamina loss as compared with current armor on production.
Thats basically means leather armor remains the same and all other armor just got better.

No warrior will be forced to upgrade their current suits. (Their current suits may no longer be the best available, but they won't be any worse than they currently are).


Changes to the special moves themselves are fine should aid with the same move spam over and over of disarm/mortal/bleed, and hopefully make it somewhat more tactical.

Other than a few special move/weapon combination tweaks, maybe slight tweak to some of the speeds as well. Should make for a solid publish.

Actually depending on what you are fighting, I think leaving metal armor changes as is will make it less desireable than unaffected leather regarding high stamina pools. But I'll wait until the next official change to go any further.

 

[Picus at the office]

That troll is attemting to close the thread down. Mods can you do something about "budman", it's a clear sock puppet account with the intention of causeing grief and closing down the conversation.

I'd ask everyone to report "budman23" as the account was clearly made to derail and grief this and other related threads.

 

[chise2]

Actually depending on what you are fighting, I think leaving metal armor changes as is will make it less desireable than unaffected leather reagurding high stamina pools. But I'll wait until they next official change to go any further.

Yeah hopefully assuming they aren;t just dropping the stamina changes altogether *need clarification on this please!* they plan on scaling things based on how things are on live now. So with leather armor going back to what it is like on live things should scale up from there. Of course that still doesn;t address the issue of with that system studded and bone dragon scale and stone I think would still not be used. Because if your going to use nonmed armor why not use the stuff that provides the best protection? I think like others have proposed bone studded and maybe stone armor should allow some med. Like maybe 50% med for bone and studded 25% for stone. I leave wood out mainly because of the added bonuses it already has. Something like that would help make these armors a valid choice. Of course they can;t forget dragon armor as well!

 

[kelmo]

No one will close these threads except for the mods. This I promise.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Yeah hopefully assuming they aren;t just dropping the stamina changes altogether *need clarification on this please!* they plan on scaling things based on how things are on live now. So with leather armor going back to what it is like on live things should scale up from there. Of course that still doesn;t address the issue of with that system studded and bone dragon scale and stone I think would still not be used. Because if your going to use nonmed armor why not use the stuff that provides the best protection? I think like others have proposed bone studded and maybe stone armor should allow some med. Like maybe 50% med for bone and studded 25% for stone. I leave wood out mainly because of the added bonuses it already has. Something like that would help make these armors a valid choice. Of course they can;t forget dragon armor as well!

Yeah thats close to what I was suggesting several posts back. I would still argue in favor of all types of armor (wood included) having some med value/benefit as mana is so crucial to all most players, but would counter that hopefully in part 2 (or at the very least suggest in the future) that all armor types get their own unique bonuses based on materials, similar to how wood armor works. I do realize I am potentially straying into the overly complex in this regard, currently at the most basic levels we still need more information.

 

[chise2]

Yeah thats close to what I was suggesting several posts back. I would still argue in favor of all types of armor (wood included) having some med value/benefit as mana is so crucial to all most players, but would counter that hopefully in part 2 (or at the very least suggest in the future) that all armor types get their own unique bonuses based on materials, similar to how wood armor works. I do realize I am potentially straying into the overly complex in this regard, currently at the most basic levels we still need more information.

Yeah I think most armor types should allow med to some degree. Maybe not metal but then again that all depends on what sort of buffs are given to it to help compensate. I do agree all the different types of metal and dragon scales and so should give different bonuses like wood does. Maybe that will be a part of part 2 though. I am still wondering what they mean by customizing our armor though.

 

[WootSauce]

That troll is attemting to close the thread down. Mods can you do something about "budman", it's a clear sock puppet account with the intention of causeing grief and closing down the conversation.

I'd ask everyone to report "budman23" as the account was clearly made to derail and grief this and other related threads.

Done deal, I'm pretty sure I know who it is as well, called out in another thread

 

[Aroma]

Yeah I think most armor types should allow med to some degree. Maybe not metal but then again that all depends on what sort of buffs are given to it to help compensate. I do agree all the different types of metal and dragon scales and so should give different bonuses like wood does. Maybe that will be a part of part 2 though. I am still wondering what they mean by customizing our armor though.

Enhancing with different color metal does give bonus's just there not worthy of excitement over. Same goes for leather now scale armor is pretty much junk. as per this chart. http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-item-properties/material-bonuses

 

[chise2]

Enhancing with different color metal does give bonus's just there not worthy of excitement over. Same goes for leather now scale armor is pretty much junk. as per this chart. http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-item-properties/material-bonuses

OH I know what I meant was more interesting useful bonuses like wood gives now.

 

[KLOMP]

It seems that Leather Armor on Test will now be the same as every other armor type on prod regarding it having 0 effect on stamina lost from damage taken. Other types of armor will provide reduction on stamina loss as compared with current armor on production.
Thats basically means leather armor remains the same and all other armor just got better.

No warrior will be forced to upgrade their current suits. (Their current suits may no longer be the best available, but they won't be any worse than they currently are).


Changes to the special moves themselves are fine should aid with the same move spam over and over of disarm/mortal/bleed, and hopefully make it somewhat more tactical.

Other than a few special move/weapon combination tweaks, maybe slight tweak to some of the speeds as well. Should make for a solid publish.

No.

I for one am not going to accept the rest of this garbage just because they fixed the one worst part. Reaction to this publish was negative even before people realized how devastating the stamina changes were, and the rest of it hasn't gotten any better.

Studded and bone armor are still the worst of both worlds and worthless.

A bunch of Mage Armor artifacts will still fall out of use, basically raising the percentage of undesirable artifacts in this game from 95 to 99 percent.

Dragonscale armor is still worthless, and if it won't be fixed even now during a balance pass, then we may as well just write it off forever.

All the slow weapons and two-handed weapons are still worthless. The idea that someone on the dev team was so disconnected as to think just adding 2 points of base damage to everything would fix anything is still disheartening.

Having metal armor slow down enemies and randomly "phase mana" is still a terrible clunky confusing sort of buff.

The changes to what moves are on which weapons are still arbitrary nonsense. PVM fencers are still ruined and war maces still smite you with the power of trees and nature for some reason.

This whole experience has been like watching someone's mom try to balance her kid's freeshard. I was seriously hoping I'd get to run around in dragonscale with a war mace and not look like an idiot newb, maybe get to use a special in PVM besides Armor Ignore, but instead I'm supposed to be satisfied and call it a victory when they add no new real options and complicate the game pointlessly. Because hey they nerfed the stamina thing and managed not to destroy the game completely.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Lets not forget the insane fencing nerf after years of building weapons and the total refresh nerf which will still kill a ton of people in spawns. The stamina leech issue which will nerf the sampire class.

The list is long, deep and is hardly fixed just because leather armor is ok. I just read that pets don't work due to the stamina issue so I'm off to check that next.

 

[chise2]

Yeah I agree there is still many many issues in this publish that need to be fixed, but I am happy they at least addressed the stamina issue on leather. I just hope they clarify soon what that means for the other armors. But yeah fixing leather was good but still tons of work to do!

 

[KLOMP]

Yeah, we're getting closer to a point where this publish doesn't ruin UO. But whoop-dee-doo, what was the point of all this again? We're still a thousand miles from it making anything better.

 

[Berethrain]

Armor Cost :

Assume you are using some level of reforging:
Horned Kit/Ash Saw/Runics : 1m Gold
Materials : 10k (burn 400 leather at 25 per, or ingots or whatever) Keep in mind you have to craft 10-20 of something to get the right 'resist spreads' on your EX items.
Imbue 4 properties
* Main Property = 5 Relics and special ingredient (MR 2 for example) 50k relics and 500k special ingredient
* 3 Off Properties = 7-8 gems (7k) and 4-5 essence or residue(10k ish) so assume 20k per property x3 = 60k and last 2 will fail alot so say 100k cost on average
* Include powder of fort from 40 dur to 240 is 2 vials at 250k total

So one piece of armor = 1m + 10k + 550k + 100k + 250k = 1.81m

A six piece suit is then approx 11m or so.
Now figure that if you want to 'enhance' with special material like heartwood or barbed leather or whatever you either : fail a ton of times (at a 1.81m cost each time) or use a forged metal artifact tool that costs about 30m for 10 charges or 3mil a charge.

So in base suit building you are talking 11 + 18 or 38m in materials to make a suit using a forged metal tool. Yes you can 'gather' this stuff but that is the opportunity cost (ie what could I SELL the stuff for) so that is what it is worth. If I am crafting a full blown suit for someone - don't even talk to me unless you want to pay me 30-40m. Otherwise it is a waste of my time.

This is why jacking with peoples armor is so sensitive. There is alot invested in just a 6 piece crafted suit - let alone if you throw in some 'matching' artifacts.

Now if you are playing the runic game and jacking with a barbed kit - you might get lucky - but you will spend at least 1 kit (15 tries) per armor piece so you are talking at least 2m x 6 or 12m + .75m in POF for 12.75m suit but unlikely to have your preferred properties.

Welcome to the world of a crafter... Its expensive.

Yeah it can be depending on the suit and what mods you are looking for.

Lot of it boils down to enhancing, which i think turned into a ****ty ploy to sell more forged metal artifacts. (Which i think you can only buy them.)

You can probably spend about as much gold as you want to in a suit or as little. I'm fine with eating 50m to build a new suit, because in todays game it isn't that much.

 

[Berethrain]

It seems that Leather Armor on Test will now be the same as every other armor type on prod regarding it having 0 effect on stamina lost from damage taken. Other types of armor will provide reduction on stamina loss as compared with current armor on production.
Thats basically means leather armor remains the same and all other armor just got better.

No warrior will be forced to upgrade their current suits. (Their current suits may no longer be the best available, but they won't be any worse than they currently are).


Changes to the special moves themselves are fine should aid with the same move spam over and over of disarm/mortal/bleed, and hopefully make it somewhat more tactical.

Other than a few special move/weapon combination tweaks, maybe slight tweak to some of the speeds as well. Should make for a solid publish.

I wouldn't go that far just yet. PVP as it is now is as much centered around dexers using mana for specials as mages do to cast spells.

Dexers on the other hand, are reliant on stamina due to swing speed, where mages are not.

Getting nailed with an exp fs drains a lot of stamina, and with the stam pot delays (which is terrible) is giving mages a pretty good advantage.

But to fix that as a dexer, you either have wear heavier armor to adjust for stam, or eat the stam loss to adjust for mana regen.

I dont think they can add a stam pot timer and expect dexers to wear heavier suits. It seems like a bigger nerf than necessary.

 

[Lord Frodo]

It seems that Leather Armor on Test will now be the same as every other armor type on prod regarding it having 0 effect on stamina lost from damage taken. Other types of armor will provide reduction on stamina loss as compared with current armor on production.
Thats basically means leather armor remains the same and all other armor just got better.

So based on this statement

Just a heads up the stamina issues will be addressed with the next publish to TC. Leather armor will be restored to its current state in production. I want to thank everyone who has submitted feedback so far and look forward to reading more of your posts.

are you saying Leather Armor will work the same as on the Reg Shards? Are they keeping the stamina loss on TC or are they scrapping it?

No warrior will be forced to upgrade their current suits. (Their current suits may no longer be the best available, but they won't be any worse than they currently are).

Only if it made of Leather or Non-Med Blacksmith made Plate. What about those that have a med suit (Mage Armor mod) but it is not made of leather, will we have to rebuild these suits? Am I right in thinking that a all Leather or a Non-Med Plate suit will give the best counter to this Stamina loss now?
If so all Spell casters/Tamers will be saved from this PUB.
All Warrior class with Leather suits will be saved from this PUB.
All Warriors with Non-Med Plate suits will be saved from this PUB.
From what I understand is that all Arties, all gear from any the Collection, any gear with the Mage Armor mod and gear from tokens are being treated like they are made of nothing. Max Stamina loss everythime.
I am not sure of any of the gear from the clean-up point system. That will have to be tested.

 

[Logrus]

I think the stamina pot delays are pretty reasonable, and overdue. I'm not sure about the mana phasing, but the lowering of special move mana costs is a step toward counter balancing a move to heavier armor. Not sure about the mana phase effect yet.

Mages will also be affected by the stam loss though pretty much limited to push through, though with warriors having the capability of hitting a little harder, thats a bit more stamina loss. That will limit push through, potentially force walk more often when hitting 1/0 stam, and also slower disarms for those wrestle mages. (This change won't suddenly push mages back to the top of the food chain)

With the reduction in stam loss from heavier armor warriors may find they need to consume less stam potions and the timer may not even be that big a factor.

 

[Logrus]

Only if it made of Leather or Non-Med Blacksmith made Plate. What about those that have a med suit (Mage Armor mod) but it is not made of leather, will we have to rebuild these suits? Am I right in thinking that a all Leather or a Non-Med Plate suit will give the best counter to this Stamina loss now?
If so all Spell casters/Tamers will be saved from this PUB.
All Warrior class with Leather suits will be saved from this PUB.
All Warriors with Non-Med Plate suits will be saved from this PUB.
From what I understand is that all Arties, all gear from any the Collection, any gear with the Mage Armor mod and gear from tokens are being treated like they are made of nothing. Max Stamina loss everythime.
I am not sure of any of the gear from the clean-up point system. That will have to be tested.

No matter what gear it is it won't be made worse than it is currently on prod. Since there is no difference in stamina loss reduction between armors. So if you have a suit of all plate with mage armor, on prod now there is no difference between it and leather when it comes to stamina loss. If current stam loss is used as the scaling factor from leather, and Mage armor makes these items treated as leather, then with the changes that armor would be no worse than it is now, since leather is[will be after tweaks according to Bleak] the start of the scaling factor. It won't be as good as non-mage armor plate, but it won't be any worse than it is currently. So the Max Stamina loss, is really just Normal Stamina loss.
So basically Leather gives normal stam loss, everything else gives increasingly better protection against that normal loss.

 

[Lord Frodo]

No matter what gear it is it won't be made worse than it is currently on prod. Since there is no difference in stamina loss reduction between armors. So if you have a suit of all plate with mage armor, on prod now there is no difference between it and leather when it comes to stamina loss. If current stam loss is used as the scaling factor from leather, and Mage armor makes these items treated as leather, then with the changes that armor would be no worse than it is now, since leather is[will be after tweaks according to Bleak] the start of the scaling factor. It won't be as good as non-mage armor plate, but it won't be any worse than it is currently. So the Max Stamina loss, is really just Normal Stamina loss.
So basically Leather gives normal stam loss, everything else gives increasingly better protection against that normal loss.

So then are you saying that Stamina loss is going back to the old way (Pre PUB 81) and they are scrapping this new Stamina loss system.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

This is definately still a case where we need to wait (for more information) and see (what changes feedback brings) before getting the full picture.

The one big counter point on the new refresh timer I would make is, the new Crushing Blow. I am still very concerned about the publish version of crushing blow, I love the general idea, but with the new refresh timer I am hesitant on getting too excited. I am especially worried for all the mages (myself included) who currently run around 20-30 stamina as it will be relatively easy to remove 20+ stamina in one hit (conservative in my opinion) with the new crushing blow. Those 10 second refresh cooldowns are going to feel awfully long, I guess the wrestling disarm move does start to look more appealing now...

 

[KLOMP]

Man at this point I think I'd rather they just didn't do anything. I feel like I went to have a hemorrhoid fixed and the surgeon walked up with a chainsaw. Even if he asks for feedback and puts the chainsaw away after you're clear about how it makes you feel, you're probably just going to tell him peace out and go buy some Preparation H.

There's just too much. There are too many bad ideas. We'll never talk them out of them all.

 

[chise2]

This is definately still a case where we need to wait (for more information) and see (what changes feedback brings) before getting the full picture.

The one big counter point on the new refresh timer I would make is, the new Crushing Blow. I am still very concerned about the publish version of crushing blow, I love the general idea, but with the new refresh timer I am hesitant on getting too excited. I am especially worried for all the mages (myself included) who currently run around 20-30 stamina as it will be relatively easy to remove 20+ stamina in one hit (conservative in my opinion) with the new crushing blow. Those 10 second refresh cooldowns are going to feel awfully long, I guess the wrestling disarm move does start to look more appealing now...

Yeah while I am glad they are fixing the stamina issue with leather something still needs to be done about refresh pots. 10 seconds is way too long I think 5 seconds like others have proposed is far more reasonable. Also speaking of wrestle mages I think if dexxers can a cooldown on disarm so should they. Maybe not the same timer but I think there should be some sort of timer so they can;t just spam disarm. Oh and like others have proposed I think alchemy should make the pot timer go back to 0 if you have gm alchemy.

 

[chise2]

Man at this point I think I'd rather they just didn't do anything. I feel like I went to have a hemorrhoid fixed and the surgeon walked up with a chainsaw. Even if he asks for feedback and puts the chainsaw away after you're clear about how it makes you feel, you're probably just going to tell him peace out and go buy some Preparation H.

There's just too much. There are too many bad ideas. We'll never talk them out of them all.

Idk I am personally going to see how it goes. Personally I do think they are trying to do too much in one publish though. It would have been much better to have the armor and weapon revamps in a seperate publish. Really though imo I could live with a fair amount of this publish. Not all of it is bad there is some decent changes imo. However there is still too much bad and I would be over all unhappy if this publish goes through as it is. I am hopeful though they do seem to maybe be listening this time, to actually care about our feedback. But we will see I guess. I am hoping we will get an idea of what other changes they are planning to make based off our feedback to part 1 soon as well. Not to mention there is still part 2 which I am both looking forward to and dreading at the sametime.. lol.

 

[Winker]

Yeah while I am glad they are fixing the stamina issue with leather something still needs to be done about refresh pots. 10 seconds is way too long I think 5 seconds like others have proposed is far more reasonable. Also speaking of wrestle mages I think if dexxers can a cooldown on disarm so should they. Maybe not the same timer but I think there should be some sort of timer so they can;t just spam disarm. Oh and like others have proposed I think alchemy should make the pot timer go back to 0 if you have gm alchemy.

So how often to you play in felucca? a timer on stam pots is definitely not the way forward either. I can die in under 5 seconds while being stam blocked by a bunch of gangbangers. If i cant push through them, i'm toast in 3 seconds to be fair.

 

[chise2]

So how often to you play in felucca? a timer on stam pots is definitly not the way forward either. I can die in under 5 seconds while being stam blocked by a bunch of gangbangers. If i cant push through them, i'm toast in 3 seconds to be fair.

I play on Siege so all the time lol. Yeah I agree though 5 seconds might be too long as well. But I do think if they are set on a timer it is far more reasonable. However if they drop the timer all together imo they should drop the stamina changes to armor as well. If you can just spam refresh pots again metal armor reducing stamina alot I donlt think will really be enough to make it useful. Well it would be more useful then now I guess but still I think most would just wear leather for the med.

 

[Otis Leroy Funk]

Once again, if the devs REALLY want our help, I invite them to list what their goals are and what they want to accomplish with this patch and these changes. Do they want to nerf the sampires? Do they want to nerf all dexxers in both pvp and Pvm? I really want the devs to list what THEY believe the UO community wants fixed. Then we can all work together to move forward. Why is this so hard for the devs to do?

 

[Picus of Napa]

Again we shall have to wait and see, there really hasn't been much information released from the team and we are now at day 6 with only a handfull of postings from the team. 6 or 7 replies I think is the total, not really an open discussion.

 

[Winker]

I play on Siege so all the time lol. Yeah I agree though 5 seconds might be too long as well. But I do think if they are set on a timer it is far more reasonable. However if they drop the timer all together imo they should drop the stamina changes to armor as well. If you can just spam refresh pots again metal armor reducing stamina alot I donlt think will really be enough to make it useful. Well it would be more useful then now I guess but still I think most would just wear leather for the med.

We have just had a pot nerf not to long ago when they doubled in weight. You cant carry around loads of pots anymore sooner or latter your going to run out!

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

It seems that Leather Armor on Test will now be the same as every other armor type on prod regarding it having 0 effect on stamina lost from damage taken. Other types of armor will provide reduction on stamina loss as compared with current armor on production.
Thats basically means leather armor remains the same and all other armor just got better.

No warrior will be forced to upgrade their current suits. (Their current suits may no longer be the best available, but they won't be any worse than they currently are).


Changes to the special moves themselves are fine should aid with the same move spam over and over of disarm/mortal/bleed, and hopefully make it somewhat more tactical.

Other than a few special move/weapon combination tweaks, maybe slight tweak to some of the speeds as well. Should make for a solid publish.

Too funny.

There is a reason that good warriors use alot of the same specials. They are the only effective ones.

That is like saying that curse/explode/flamestrike needs to get nerfed because all mages use them over and over against warriors. For tactical purposes lol?

Talk about a biased point of view *shakes head*

 

[Logrus]

Nothing to do with a bias. Its about balance.

Any ability that can block certain actions, should not be able to sustained indefinitely.
Mortal blocks healing, having that be indefinitely spamable is a bad idea.
Paralysis blocks movement, having that spamable is a bad idea.
Disarm completely negates dexers so having that spamable, also a bad idea.

Curse being the way it is, reducing resists by 10, and stats also spamable, also would say that this shouldn't be the case, but since that XP/FS to an all 70's does about as much as 2 armor ignores and requiring more than 2x the time to do so, I think its a reasonable concession. Having a curse in there should get it up into the armor ignore + spell proc damage range.

 

[Berethrain]

If it was overdue to effectively nerf every dexer template in the game, then mission accomplished.

The stam pot nerf only affects dexers and in a big way. That's not balance.

The mana phase sucks. It gives only a 1% chance per piece to metal armor like plate. Which you would think to be balanced would be higher than leather since leather is already medable, but perhaps I'm looking at it wrong.

As far as sustained actions, I haven't looked, but did they add a timer to infecting strike? Spamming that is rediculous so as soon as you chug 50 cures to get rid of one, they can deploy another.

Also I didnt see an answer if the disarm delay worked after it was deployed or after the target equips the weapon since it takes 5 seconds to equip a weapon after being disarmed anyways.

 

[Madrid]

Nothing to do with a bias. Its about balance.

Any ability that can block certain actions, should not be able to sustained indefinitely.
Mortal blocks healing, having that be indefinitely spamable is a bad idea.
Paralysis blocks movement, having that spamable is a bad idea.
Disarm completely negates dexers so having that spamable, also a bad idea.

Curse being the way it is, reducing resists by 10, and stats also spamable, also would say that this shouldn't be the case, but since that XP/FS to an all 70's does about as much as 2 armor ignores and requiring more than 2x the time to do so, I think its a reasonable concession. Having a curse in there should get it up into the armor ignore + spell proc damage range.

Nonsense.

All specials require mana to perform which is limited. To say the that players can perpetually perform the same moves over and over indefinitely is blatantly false. Executing Special moves is limited by your mana pool.

As a former member of the team you should know better than to post this type nonesense and just proves what many players state that the developers are way out of sync with the game.

I can't tell you the number of times I get the message "You need 30 mana to perform that special move".

 

[Picus at the office]

The mana phase is a complicated idea that might at best provide limited returns. I understand that one wants to add new stuff when you are revamping but it just makes the whole concept all the more confusing and hard to understand. Sure the single aspect is nothing we that we can't understand but the totallity of it all is becoming to much.

I failed to see anything about a nerf to para anywhere in the patch notes so it's hardly worth bringing up another advantage that mages have over the other class. Mortal is already on a timer, can be ignored to some degree and is largely used for a gank all the same. Disarm is annoying to the dexxer class if you are recieving it but I'm worried about adding even more of a buff to the mage weapon, which a disarm timer only does.

 

[Dragothien]

While I completely agree that ten seconds on a Tr pot is way to long, has anyone tried normal refesh pots on test? I know we all use tr pots because it is the smart thing to do, but last night on prod I chugged a normal refresh pot on a character who is:
1) an elf so no joat
2) has no alchemy
3) had zero enhanced pots
..and my stam went from I think 48 to 150.

Meaning a normal refresh does at least 100 stamina? Id be curious to see if this is the same on test, and how much stam you can actually get out of it id you aren't just hitting your cap.

Again.. I dont think the tr timer should be ten... but it might not even matter?

 

[CovenantX]

Combat changes:

• All stamina potions now operate on a global cooldown. Total refresh potions apply a ten second cooldown, refresh potions apply a two second cooldown, and faction refresh potions apply a two second cooldown.
• Chivalry: Divine Fury stamina regenerated decreased to 2.5x duration from 4x duration.

These are the only changes left that I don't think is well balanced... (since the stamina loss seems to be getting removed)

Total Refresh potions: a cooldown, is Ok... These don't cost Mana or Skill points & They are also NOT effected by Enhance Potions. (Anyone can use these)

Divine Fury: **SHOULD** Restores full stamina, -15% Dci penalty, Damage Increase, & Swing Speed Increase... This takes Minimum of 25.0 skill points invested in chivalry to use... & 75.0 skill points invested in Chivalry to use 100% successfully.


I'm surprised to see Refresh potions get a Global Cool-down TBH... if any potion goes without any cooldowns it should be Refresh potions...

Cure Potions are the ones that NEED a Global cooldown... and a cooldown wouldn't be effective enough unless that Poison Imunity (free cure) was REMOVED from Poisoning Skill.

 

[Thrakkar]

Having metal armor slow down enemies and randomly "phase mana" is still a terrible clunky confusing sort of buff.

"Phase mana" is not only tied to metal armor.
If you read the patch notes, you'll discover that metal armor hast the least chance of mana phase (1% per piece), while leather has 3%...

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Thank you, Logrus, for testing stuff. Your unique voice, that of former team member and active player, is always valuable, whether I --or anyone-- agrees with you or not.

I am glad to say the team appears to have recognized that they considerably over-reached.

I continue to lobby for the minimal approach for the armor revamp (no changes to anything save that heavy, non-meddable armors now absorb stamina damage, thus allowing the player to pick the approach for overcoming or obviating stamina damage), but if Stamina damage is reduced to current Production Shard levels, then the changes now sound liveable. It was the high levels of Stamina damage that appears to have nerfed the

Liveable, with one glaring exception: Felucca pushthrough. Which from appearances at minimum will see without further changes a greatly altered dynamic.

I tend to give a lot of weight on this stuff to Logrus's word, with his unique voice as former team member and active player (including PvP). This isn't to say that he'll always be right but rather that his voice has greater weight. I also remember some, especially PvPers, calling for some kind of stamina potion timer before, though oddly enough we have not heard from those folks since the Publish hit. So he's not the only one who thinks Stamina potions need the nerf, though he's the only one I've read who'll say so. (I actually do not think they need to be nerfed even though I don't really use potions hardly at all anymore.)

The changes are certainly going in the right direction, based on what we've read so far and if current levels of Stamina damage remain untouched, and I breathe somewhat easier.

-Galen's player

PS: I still think the mana phasing and heavy armor SSI de-buffs are a tad much....

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Nothing to do with a bias. Its about balance.

Any ability that can block certain actions, should not be able to sustained indefinitely.
Mortal blocks healing, having that be indefinitely spamable is a bad idea.
Paralysis blocks movement, having that spamable is a bad idea.
Disarm completely negates dexers so having that spamable, also a bad idea.

Curse being the way it is, reducing resists by 10, and stats also spamable, also would say that this shouldn't be the case, but since that XP/FS to an all 70's does about as much as 2 armor ignores and requiring more than 2x the time to do so, I think its a reasonable concession. Having a curse in there should get it up into the armor ignore + spell proc damage range.

1) Mortal cannot be indefinitely spammed so whats your point? Warriors have a very finite mana pool as it is and that is becoming less and more random after suggested changes.
2) As it is right now the only class able to spam para is the mage class. Mage para is so imbalanced it forces warriors to not only have 120 resist but also carry trapped boxes as omen/para is so overpowered it is instant field death
3) Disarm will not be spammable by warriors anymore leaving wrestlemages as the main class only able to spam it after suggested changes
4) And you are 100% correct that the spammable Curse spell is beyond overpowered and not getting touched.

Thanks for clearly pointing out how much more powerful and imbalanced mages will be after the suggested changes.

My bad, I guess you are not as mage-biased as I thought. Sorry

 

[Logrus]

Picus
Not mentioning it as what was or was not touched. Merely stating that effects which completely block certain actions can be game breakers if you can keep them sustained on a target. (Mage weapons are a different balance matter altogether).
Paralysis (special move) does have an immunity timer preventing the chaining.

Madrid
Can you bleed again as soon as its removed? Yep.
Can you mortal again as soon as its removed ? Yep.
Can you disarm someone as soon as they've re-armed? Yep.
Your mana pool is a SOFT cap to how often, and how many special moves you can do. The effects themselves can be maintained indefinitely.

Goldberg
Having somone immobile for 10s of seconds to minutes is rediculous.Especially since if you were to actually wait for it to wear off it can be re-applied immediately. But until there's some balance work done on that section trapped boxes can't be gotten rid of.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

If you truly want to re-work armor as far as pvp is concerned all you need to do is look at EVERY high end suit and compare the mods.
Every warrior suit has max lmc and large amounts of mana regen(both mage specific mods) These are not and should not be warrior mods but if you don't fit them in your suit you will be completely unable to do specials so you will die every time to an average Mage.
Now look at the Mage suits and try to find any warrior specific mods. You won't. Where are you finding stamina increase on a Mage suit.
It's a huge imbalance as warriors even need to cram mana increase on suits to be very effective.
Mages have the huge luxury of tailoring perfect suits for any of their templates.

Now the proposed changes will push warriors towards non med and the mana phase will make the only mana they get random. All the while nerfing the main specials the mana is used for. It's a complete joke IMO.

Bottom line is that any correct armor revamp should also include something that makes it more difficult for mages to get and regen mana.

 

[Logrus]

Much of it isn't warrior vs. mage.
Certain capabilities are really powerful regardless of who wields them, Poison, Mortal, Paralysis, Bleed, Curse, Disarm etc are some clear examples. Though they may vary in how much they affect each class, having any of them in perpetual effect is going to create an imbalanced situation.