This is really interesting if it is true, because Spellbinders don't cast ANY Damaging spells. except ~Blood Oath~, everyhting else is pure status effect (which is why they're so good for Resist training)
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If the proposed changes are carried through with anything like the current mechanisms, I would like to offer my opinion that the goal of making heavier armour types more useful is currently being approached in almost exactly the wrong way. As has been noted before, apart from parry mages, other casters compromise on Dex and hence stamina because it is not essential to their template or damage output. Dexers, on the other hand, have to work all three stats to be effective in both PvM and PvP. Mana is just as important to dexers as it is to mages as all forms of healing outpace non-special hits from a mana-poor dexer. In such a matchup, the mana depleted dexer has no realistic chance whatsoever of killing a PvP opponent.
PvP is about timing the delivery of burst damage for both mages and dexers with various added tricks to disrupt healing and a few other bells and whistles. This requires mana and I believe that due to this mechanic, mana - both as a deep mana pool and good MR, is actually MORE important to a Dexer than stamina. If you don't believe this, try running an Elven Dexer with no MR - there is an awful lot of downtime. This is the reason leather armour became the only workable choice and it is likely to be the reason that, even if the stamina changes go through, leather will remain the required armour type. Passive mana regeneration is indeed compromised severely when wearing non-medable armour whether you have Meditation as a skill or not. Let me illustrate through some recent quick and dirty testing:
Template with 90 Int and 13 MR from kit (no Med skill as Elf) - to regain 100 mana takes 91 secs wearing medable armour, 112 secs wearing one non-medable piece.
Same template with 20 Med skill (equal to JoaT Med) and 11 MR from kit for a total of 13 MR - to regain 100 mana takes 84 secs in medable suit, 127 secs wearing one non-medable piece and 63 secs actively Meditating
A Dexer in non-medable armour will take therefore approximately 33% longer to recover mana than a leather armoured Dexer. There is a slight difference between 20 Med/11 MR and 13 MR as MR from Meditation seems to be more effective. This mechanism is also affected by total Int and doesn't scale linearly - but that's another story.
What this means is that a Plate armoured Dexer will be slow to regenerate mana and in open field combat, will rapidly risk becoming ineffectual as he will not have the mana to power specials. Stamina loss does not come into the equation because that CAN be recovered rapidly (although slower than before) through a variety of mechanisms. Until the moment of combat, Stamina is only important if it stops you moving and so Refresh potions will have to be saved for this purpose as it will very likely be a matter of life or death. In comparison, there are very few practical mechanisms to regain mana rapidly in PvP.
This will force Dexers to consider running Meditation as a skill (few apart from some archers do so currently) compromising already cramped templates which will likely reduce their effectiveness. The alternative will be to bow to the inevitable loss of stamina and run a Nodexer (TM - I said it first!)
template - run 125 Int and enough Str to hit 150 with kit, dropping Dex and Stamina to the minimum and rely on SSI to swing fast swing speed weapons at 1.25 - this can be done with zero Stamina. Since Stamina loss is currently a percentage loss, this can be accomodated with standard Refresh pots as before. Paradoxically, this may actually be a stronger template in the new environment as it will be capable of running a mana pool of over 200. What will have happened is that weapon choice will become more limited for the leather wearers and skill templates for the heavy armour wearers will become more limited with the need to maintain mana regeneration. We will see less variety, not more.The pressure to wear heavier armour will also severely compromise all stealth templates although I will concede that is very possibly an unstated goal...
Solutions? I do have some suggestions but I would like to see if there is any agreement with the thoughts above before I burden you all with any more. Some things to think about though:
1. Heavier armour should (logically) provide more protection from damage, If anything, it should reduce Dexterity (and hence stamina). Introduce bonuses and penalties to reflect this. In RP terms, the thieves and leather wearing bandits are capable in melee due to to lack of encumbrance but use only lighter weapons. You have to have trained (Dex and Stamina) to be able to wear heavy armour with it's greater protection without losing too much speed.
2. Heavy weapons - a bonus to damage or an automatic stun/concussive/stamina draining effect should be attached when wielded by someone wearing heavy armour ( much in the manner that Splintering works). The rational is simply that there is greater weight behind the blow tranferring to the point of impact. This alone might make up for many of the issues arising from slower swing speed.
3. Dragon scales - use as enhancing material but treated as leather. Bonuses obviously to different elemental resists.
4. Casters - should have a FC penalty scaling off stamina remaining. I KNOW that a zero stamina caster would then be a sitting duck - but so is a zero stamina dexer under these proposals. Let us please have an even playing field.
5. Archers and to a lesser extent, Throwers, will be dead with the proposed changes. Their weapon speeds simply have to be faster.
I would like to think that we might see the emergence of more varieties of melee templates as a result, not fewer as I fear might happen.
,Every spell cast by the spellbinder did Max stamina damage. Here's the best part, I have 100 spell resist so even when I resisted the spell I still took stamina damage. Mages will rock with this change. What is the fastest spell you can cast? It doesn't look like it needs to be a high lvl spell or do any real damage but it will suck the stamina out of any warrior leaving him/her useless with no stamina.
If the proposed changes are carried through with anything like the current mechanisms, I would like to offer my opinion that the goal of making heavier armour types more useful is currently being approached in almost exactly the wrong way. As has been noted before, apart from parry mages, other casters compromise on Dex and hence stamina because it is not essential to their template or damage output. Dexers, on the other hand, have to work all three stats to be effective in both PvM and PvP. Mana is just as important to dexers as it is to mages as all forms of healing outpace non-special hits from a mana-poor dexer. In such a matchup, the mana depleted dexer has no realistic chance whatsoever of killing a PvP opponent.
PvP is about timing the delivery of burst damage for both mages and dexers with various added tricks to disrupt healing and a few other bells and whistles. This requires mana and I believe that due to this mechanic, mana - both as a deep mana pool and good MR, is actually MORE important to a Dexer than stamina. If you don't believe this, try running an Elven Dexer with no MR - there is an awful lot of downtime. This is the reason leather armour became the only workable choice and it is likely to be the reason that, even if the stamina changes go through, leather will remain the required armour type. Passive mana regeneration is indeed compromised severely when wearing non-medable armour whether you have Meditation as a skill or not. Let me illustrate through some recent quick and dirty testing:
Template with 90 Int and 13 MR from kit (no Med skill as Elf) - to regain 100 mana takes 91 secs wearing medable armour, 112 secs wearing one non-medable piece.
Same template with 20 Med skill (equal to JoaT Med) and 11 MR from kit for a total of 13 MR - to regain 100 mana takes 84 secs in medable suit, 127 secs wearing one non-medable piece and 63 secs actively Meditating
A Dexer in non-medable armour will take therefore approximately 33% longer to recover mana than a leather armoured Dexer. There is a slight difference between 20 Med/11 MR and 13 MR as MR from Meditation seems to be more effective. This mechanism is also affected by total Int and doesn't scale linearly - but that's another story.
What this means is that a Plate armoured Dexer will be slow to regenerate mana and in open field combat, will rapidly risk becoming ineffectual as he will not have the mana to power specials. Stamina loss does not come into the equation because that CAN be recovered rapidly (although slower than before) through a variety of mechanisms. Until the moment of combat, Stamina is only important if it stops you moving and so Refresh potions will have to be saved for this purpose as it will very likely be a matter of life or death. In comparison, there are very few practical mechanisms to regain mana rapidly in PvP.
This will force Dexers to consider running Meditation as a skill (few apart from some archers do so currently) compromising already cramped templates which will likely reduce their effectiveness. The alternative will be to bow to the inevitable loss of stamina and run a Nodexer (TM - I said it first!)
The pressure to wear heavier armour will also severely compromise all stealth templates although I will concede that is very possibly an unstated goal...
Solutions? I do have some suggestions but I would like to see if there is any agreement with the thoughts above before I burden you all with any more. Some things to think about though:
1. Heavier armour should (logically) provide more protection from damage, If anything, it should reduce Dexterity (and hence stamina). Introduce bonuses and penalties to reflect this. In RP terms, the thieves and leather wearing bandits are capable in melee due to to lack of encumbrance but use only lighter weapons. You have to have trained (Dex and Stamina) to be able to wear heavy armour with it's greater protection without losing too much speed.
2. Heavy weapons - a bonus to damage or an automatic stun/concussive/stamina draining effect should be attached when wielded by someone wearing heavy armour ( much in the manner that Splintering works). The rational is simply that there is greater weight behind the blow tranferring to the point of impact. This alone might make up for many of the issues arising from slower swing speed.
3. Dragon scales - use as enhancing material but treated as leather. Bonuses obviously to different elemental resists.
4. Casters - should have a FC penalty scaling off stamina remaining. I KNOW that a zero stamina caster would then be a sitting duck - but so is a zero stamina dexer under these proposals. Let us please have an even playing field.
5. Archers and to a lesser extent, Throwers, will be dead with the proposed changes. Their weapon speeds simply have to be faster.
I would like to think that we might see the emergence of more varieties of melee templates as a result, not fewer as I fear might happen.
Just in regards to the throwers and archers thing, i think hitting throwers with the 5 hci penalty is ok. What they should do is leave the soul glaive speed as is, and bring everything else up to those levels. In Melee weapons case, bring those damages/speeds PAST those of that throwing level.
The question from the Ask & Answer was answered last week, before we released details for the first part of the Armor Revamp. When the time comes and we release part 2, if changes need to be made there, we will address those as well. What my comments from the A&A were meant to demonstrate is that we have every intention of making sure that anything new we add will be obtainable through a variety of means and across a variety of professions, in this case specifically related to High Seas content.
Yes you do. This is why you never see any dexers for the most part in non med up till now. You can play with the calculator. Your right on the focus, but non med kills the multiplier for med and int. You can think of it this way too Human jack of all trades with 20 virtual med plus INT
You must forgive my Cynicism, time after time we have stated our dislike for up coming changes but they have been pushed through anyhow. The last one was the faction Nerf, that’s still stuck in my wind pipe! We the playing community told you that the changes are were going to ruin factions and yet they were still put into place. To this day nothing has been done to help recover from the mess that was left behind.
We asked for simple changes to the armor and weapons nothing overly complicated or nothing that would require us to bin all our current suits on every character. Think about the cost these changes will cost most of us, remember we are nearly all wearing leather!
While I have your attention, don't nerf my archer anymore please… He is useless now never mind making him more useless. Bring the archer up to the same level as the Thrower please.
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Throwing should be brought down to archery's level. Allowing faster one handed weapons to do the same specials as bows is nuts.
As far as the patch, i have just begun testing changes on the one account left before it runs out of time. I would like to see most players test these changes, yet they simply look at what they have written on the site, and say OMG ITS SUX!
Though, again they are cramming a lot of changes into one publish and im concerned they will not be tested thoroughly and we will be eating yet another publish with some undesirable results.
Overall, if the only thing they fix is the 5 hci for gargs I'm ok with this.
Back to testing...
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I thought about this also. The heavier the armor the more mods. If made into mage/meadable armor when wearing plate it would simply just reduce the amount of mana regen compared to leather yet more without the mage armor mod.
Yeah you have a point about the stamina thing. I liked the idea but damage reduction sounds like it may be a better system to go with. I also think like others have pointed out it would be nice if boned/studded and even stone/wood were partially meddable. I think having a significant damage reduction attached to heavier armors like plate would make them more appealing then they are now. It would help make up for the big reduction in mana regen. You would not be able to put out as much damage true, but you would also be able to take a lot more damage I think that would be nice. Though I do think there should be something done to help the mana issues those wearing plate would have. I think they tried to do that with the whole mana phase thing but its too random/procs too little to really be of any use. Of course though someone in plate shouldn;t both be able to get the damage reduction bonus but at the same time have the same mana regen capablity as someone in leather. Otherwise everyone would just wear plate so there needs to be some compromise.If the proposed changes are carried through with anything like the current mechanisms, I would like to offer my opinion that the goal of making heavier armour types more useful is currently being approached in almost exactly the wrong way. As has been noted before, apart from parry mages, other casters compromise on Dex and hence stamina because it is not essential to their template or damage output. Dexers, on the other hand, have to work all three stats to be effective in both PvM and PvP. Mana is just as important to dexers as it is to mages as all forms of healing outpace non-special hits from a mana-poor dexer. In such a matchup, the mana depleted dexer has no realistic chance whatsoever of killing a PvP opponent.
PvP is about timing the delivery of burst damage for both mages and dexers with various added tricks to disrupt healing and a few other bells and whistles. This requires mana and I believe that due to this mechanic, mana - both as a deep mana pool and good MR, is actually MORE important to a Dexer than stamina. If you don't believe this, try running an Elven Dexer with no MR - there is an awful lot of downtime. This is the reason leather armour became the only workable choice and it is likely to be the reason that, even if the stamina changes go through, leather will remain the required armour type. Passive mana regeneration is indeed compromised severely when wearing non-medable armour whether you have Meditation as a skill or not. Let me illustrate through some recent quick and dirty testing:
Template with 90 Int and 13 MR from kit (no Med skill as Elf) - to regain 100 mana takes 91 secs wearing medable armour, 112 secs wearing one non-medable piece.
Same template with 20 Med skill (equal to JoaT Med) and 11 MR from kit for a total of 13 MR - to regain 100 mana takes 84 secs in medable suit, 127 secs wearing one non-medable piece and 63 secs actively Meditating
A Dexer in non-medable armour will take therefore approximately 33% longer to recover mana than a leather armoured Dexer. There is a slight difference between 20 Med/11 MR and 13 MR as MR from Meditation seems to be more effective. This mechanism is also affected by total Int and doesn't scale linearly - but that's another story.
What this means is that a Plate armoured Dexer will be slow to regenerate mana and in open field combat, will rapidly risk becoming ineffectual as he will not have the mana to power specials. Stamina loss does not come into the equation because that CAN be recovered rapidly (although slower than before) through a variety of mechanisms. Until the moment of combat, Stamina is only important if it stops you moving and so Refresh potions will have to be saved for this purpose as it will very likely be a matter of life or death. In comparison, there are very few practical mechanisms to regain mana rapidly in PvP.
This will force Dexers to consider running Meditation as a skill (few apart from some archers do so currently) compromising already cramped templates which will likely reduce their effectiveness. The alternative will be to bow to the inevitable loss of stamina and run a Nodexer (TM - I said it first!)
The pressure to wear heavier armour will also severely compromise all stealth templates although I will concede that is very possibly an unstated goal...
Solutions? I do have some suggestions but I would like to see if there is any agreement with the thoughts above before I burden you all with any more. Some things to think about though:
1. Heavier armour should (logically) provide more protection from damage, If anything, it should reduce Dexterity (and hence stamina). Introduce bonuses and penalties to reflect this. In RP terms, the thieves and leather wearing bandits are capable in melee due to to lack of encumbrance but use only lighter weapons. You have to have trained (Dex and Stamina) to be able to wear heavy armour with it's greater protection without losing too much speed.
2. Heavy weapons - a bonus to damage or an automatic stun/concussive/stamina draining effect should be attached when wielded by someone wearing heavy armour ( much in the manner that Splintering works). The rational is simply that there is greater weight behind the blow tranferring to the point of impact. This alone might make up for many of the issues arising from slower swing speed.
3. Dragon scales - use as enhancing material but treated as leather. Bonuses obviously to different elemental resists.
4. Casters - should have a FC penalty scaling off stamina remaining. I KNOW that a zero stamina caster would then be a sitting duck - but so is a zero stamina dexer under these proposals. Let us please have an even playing field.
5. Archers and to a lesser extent, Throwers, will be dead with the proposed changes. Their weapon speeds simply have to be faster.
I would like to think that we might see the emergence of more varieties of melee templates as a result, not fewer as I fear might happen.
I think dragon scales would be great as an enhancing item and I do like the idea of casters getting an fc penalty based on stamina remaining. It would help even the playing field.
You guys, don't be too upset about the SSI debuff. There are still ways to get around this. For example:
In PvM, NEVER aggress a foe. Just sit there and wait for monsters to attack you ! Yea, it might get annoying after a while, especially if multiple monsters aggress you all at once, but then you can swing like a champ !
In PvP, again, NEVER aggress a foe. This ensures that ninjas no longer can take advantage of the element of surprise, dexxers must now wait to be disarmed by wrestle/mages in order to not suffer the debuff, and in the future you'll never actually see two dexxers fighting eachother. They'll just stand there, glaring at eachother, waiting for the other one to make the mistake of attacking first. This combines very well with two dexxers that might want to spar in a house. Not only will the aggressor be immediately booted, but if the defender comes outside to continue the duel, the aggressor will most certainly pay for their mistake.
In PvM, NEVER aggress a foe. Just sit there and wait for monsters to attack you !
Yea, it might get annoying after a while, especially if multiple monsters aggress you all at once, but then you can swing like a champ !In PvP, again, NEVER aggress a foe. This ensures that ninjas no longer can take advantage of the element of surprise, dexxers must now wait to be disarmed by wrestle/mages in order to not suffer the debuff, and in the future you'll never actually see two dexxers fighting eachother. They'll just stand there, glaring at eachother, waiting for the other one to make the mistake of attacking first. This combines very well with two dexxers that might want to spar in a house. Not only will the aggressor be immediately booted, but if the defender comes outside to continue the duel, the aggressor will most certainly pay for their mistake.
Was off today and just finished this monster thread...how can they nerf dexxies over and over and leave a Mage alone.
The basic Mage spells are the stuff of legend...untouched in 15 years, why?
Please take a look at curse, On Atl 95% of mages cast it every 5 th spell takes no mana and reduces my elemental resists 40 with 120 Magic Resist.
If the dev are watching this thread you already know that almost everyone players hates this pub!
Make your mark in UO...nerf the original mage spells, base casting on stam and mana
If we are going to turn UO upside-down at lease make sure it effects everyone!
The basic Mage spells are the stuff of legend...untouched in 15 years, why?
Please take a look at curse, On Atl 95% of mages cast it every 5 th spell takes no mana and reduces my elemental resists 40 with 120 Magic Resist.
If the dev are watching this thread you already know that almost everyone players hates this pub!
Make your mark in UO...nerf the original mage spells, base casting on stam and mana
If we are going to turn UO upside-down at lease make sure it effects everyone!
And lets not forget throwers do NOT have to carry anything else to throw.... archers have to carry resources!!!!!
The most amazing part of this whole thing is people who normally argue over slight differences in the game all agree that this pub sucks.
I spent a few hours on TC abyss last night killing critters with a friend. He was human in full plate and I was elf in full plate. The toughness bonus for human really seemed to make a difference. My elf was taking 12%ish stamina damage constanly while his human was taking 7-8% It is a bit tricky to gauge stamina damage as you lose slightly more stamina as hit points decrease. Plus with any sort of focus, stamina regens making it difficult to stare at your stamina bar, take note of current health and record the damage you take. I know devs have said we cant reach 100% stamina protection so there must be some sort of diminishing return past 80% protection?.
I think all races should have some sort of abiltiy like toughness to make them a better tank. Like adding a small stamina refresh proc to elves using bandages making them better xhealers. Maybe increased stamina protection for Gargoyles at different stages of berserk or give them a bonus to stamina regen while in flight.
I think all races should have some sort of abiltiy like toughness to make them a better tank. Like adding a small stamina refresh proc to elves using bandages making them better xhealers. Maybe increased stamina protection for Gargoyles at different stages of berserk or give them a bonus to stamina regen while in flight.
No. As i've already said, currently Humans are inferior to Elves and Gargoyles in combat because of the racials. This used to be balanced by JoAT granting Special Mana Discount for Warriors (Until that got nerfed).
A Human Warrior with 120 Wep Skill and JoAT had 20 Mana cost Specials. A Elf Warrior with 120 Wep skill and no other skills that qualify for Mana cost reduction, would have 30 Mana cost specials. The Human's first special would cost 20 Mana, while his daisy chained special would cost 40 Mana. The Elves first special would cost 30 Mana, his daisy chained special would cost 60 Mana. The Human saved 30 Mana over the Elf, compensating for the fact that the Elf had +20 Mana over the Human. However, a template that did have 300+ real skill points that qualified for Special Mana Discount, was better off as Elf for the +20 Mana. It was balanced that way. Then they nerfed Human JoAT, and Human Warriors more or less became extinct.
Not the whole publish, they are fixing some over due balances.
The garg nerf was needed.
I don't quite get the stam pot nerf. That didn't really need balancing.
(suggestions below)
Two handed weapons havng balanced mod im fine with.
EO para and poison would be fine.
Remove stacking velocity with hit fb, lightning, etc would be ok.
This patch is pretty ambitious, and I would hope they would only test weapon changes first and then armor tweaks in a seperate publish. But, yet here we are.
Cheers I guess.
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AMEN brother.
I'm going to admit something.
For awhile now I have been guaging how right I am based off the things you like or agree with which tend to be opposite of me.
And so far, my margin of error is low.
Its just something players have been proposing I think.
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No worries, most of those were suggestions that hopefully they put in.
LOL
I am sorry but I feel the need to compile a list of the warrior pros and cons in the proposed revamp
Cons:
1) All suits will have to be completely replaced and many weapons will have to be switched out
2) All new suits will be less powerful as they cannot be made medable and/or will lose large amounts of valuable properties to compensate
3) The most powerful special moves a warrior uses have been nerfed (mortal,bleed,feint,disarm,moving shot) pretty sure ai may also end up being nerfed also because based on current testing certain spells seem to nullify the ignore damage. Not sure on this move yet though
4) The mana needed to use the above nerfed special moves has been crippled and made random by a complex mana phase formula (a nice two for one nerf) How can a warrior hope to compete against a mage if his mana is not regenerated as fast as before and also made random?
5) Throwers are shot to hell (not a terrible thing but still a huge warrior nerf)
6) Animal form is now a luxury that only mages can afford (again, not a bad idea to nerf it but why make it still viable for mages who already have the fc/fcr built in to make it work?
7) Stamina (the lifeblood of the warrior as it is the equivalent to the mages fc/fcr) has been crippled and the means of regenerating it have also been nerfed. Divine Fury already kinda sucked as it caused a dci hit but now it is even more worthless as it will not regenerate to full.
8) Stamina Leech lessened. Never even close to powerful enough to warrant wasting a mod on but now nerfed just for good measure I guess lol
9) Refresh potions completely nerfed. This is the killer ofc
10) Ssi further nerfed by some kind of random ssi armor debuff
Pros:
1) Double Strike will now hit more often. You will not be able to use it as often as before because you will be swinging slower and have less mana but it will hit more lol.
2) HLD will now have a chance to work as intended. Uhhh, thanks I guess.
IMO a one-sided list but maybe I am wrong? Someone please point out where I am wrong or what I missed that doesnt apply to all classes?
Cons:
1) All suits will have to be completely replaced and many weapons will have to be switched out
2) All new suits will be less powerful as they cannot be made medable and/or will lose large amounts of valuable properties to compensate
3) The most powerful special moves a warrior uses have been nerfed (mortal,bleed,feint,disarm,moving shot) pretty sure ai may also end up being nerfed also because based on current testing certain spells seem to nullify the ignore damage. Not sure on this move yet though
4) The mana needed to use the above nerfed special moves has been crippled and made random by a complex mana phase formula (a nice two for one nerf) How can a warrior hope to compete against a mage if his mana is not regenerated as fast as before and also made random?
5) Throwers are shot to hell (not a terrible thing but still a huge warrior nerf)
6) Animal form is now a luxury that only mages can afford (again, not a bad idea to nerf it but why make it still viable for mages who already have the fc/fcr built in to make it work?
7) Stamina (the lifeblood of the warrior as it is the equivalent to the mages fc/fcr) has been crippled and the means of regenerating it have also been nerfed. Divine Fury already kinda sucked as it caused a dci hit but now it is even more worthless as it will not regenerate to full.
8) Stamina Leech lessened. Never even close to powerful enough to warrant wasting a mod on but now nerfed just for good measure I guess lol
9) Refresh potions completely nerfed. This is the killer ofc
10) Ssi further nerfed by some kind of random ssi armor debuff
Pros:
1) Double Strike will now hit more often. You will not be able to use it as often as before because you will be swinging slower and have less mana but it will hit more lol.
2) HLD will now have a chance to work as intended. Uhhh, thanks I guess.
IMO a one-sided list but maybe I am wrong? Someone please point out where I am wrong or what I missed that doesnt apply to all classes?
this is like waiting to hear about who won the power ball. Would be cool if we (the community) could get an update upon each revamp/fix and take it 1 step at a time to make sure everyone is on the same page and/or agrees with each change/addition.
Also in regards to the post above me... have they not taken a look at "Infectious Strike" yet? Adding a delay or timer when using mortal, bleed, disarm but nothing for infectious strike?
Also in regards to the post above me... have they not taken a look at "Infectious Strike" yet? Adding a delay or timer when using mortal, bleed, disarm but nothing for infectious strike?
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Thats funny
Forgot to mention that infectious strike also nerfed by increased mana to perform
The worst publish since February 11, 2003.
I'm not going to be so inconsiderate as to say, everyone that is just complaining is wrong, but this is the first time in a very long time that the developers are damn near staring us in our faces, begging asking us to give them feedback, repeatedly... I certainly applaud anyone that even bothers to make a list like Goldberg did. In my opinion his post would benefit from some suggestions as well, but he (like other people) has been justly disappointed from previous bad experiences, at the very least he took the time to reflect on the changes, and list his issues with the initial publish notes, I can respect that.
I guess I am just confused and a little saddened when reading some posts that seem evoke the feeling that players are throwing their hands in the air saying, "UO is dead! Publish 81 has finally killed it, I give up." Well, it's not dead yet. The changes haven't been made permanent, the developers are still asking for feedback (repeatedly), are reading said feedback, and in some cases even responding, so please keep giving them more to think about. I'm not going to go on a crusade for the development team, but to me the effort to listen to us players in this case is apparent, and the game we all (mostly) enjoy has not been altered for the worser (misspelling intended) yet.
I may even be so hopeful as to think that if we can manage to have a positive experience from our feedback, and testing of this publish, the development team, and us players might actually manage to have more success on future publishes, possibly even fixing some of the changes we players deemed unwarranted, or unsuccessful... but I realize thats just me thinking out loud here.
I guess I am just confused and a little saddened when reading some posts that seem evoke the feeling that players are throwing their hands in the air saying, "UO is dead! Publish 81 has finally killed it, I give up." Well, it's not dead yet. The changes haven't been made permanent, the developers are still asking for feedback (repeatedly), are reading said feedback, and in some cases even responding, so please keep giving them more to think about. I'm not going to go on a crusade for the development team, but to me the effort to listen to us players in this case is apparent, and the game we all (mostly) enjoy has not been altered for the worser (misspelling intended) yet.
I may even be so hopeful as to think that if we can manage to have a positive experience from our feedback, and testing of this publish, the development team, and us players might actually manage to have more success on future publishes, possibly even fixing some of the changes we players deemed unwarranted, or unsuccessful... but I realize thats just me thinking out loud here.
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Well let me ask a question. Since UO:R we have been asking a fix to the dart trap box exploit. Since I been gone about 2 years now has this been fixed? or are dexers still banging away at trap boxes to get out of Para spells?
I was on the first PVP Discussion Group. This Group was to come up with solutions back in 2005 I believe. This was over Publish 46. We were given access to a special forum on a Friday. To our surprise, all the decisions were made for us. Publish 46 for the most part was cooked up by 1 guy for the most part named GuildMule who emailed the then EA community leader (I forgot her name). Now Guildmule never pvped. He was through and through a Tram Role Player. He had a notion to standardize templates. This is where the requirement for tactics for special moves came in. This alone wrecked a ton of templates. It obliterated samurais and ninjas for the most part in pvp as some well used necro templates, not to mention several mage templates to boot. Now after this was realized, we had the facts, we were not part of the creativity, but there as viewers. The Devs had it all coded and on test center. We disclosed the truth to the community and bam, by monday the PvP Group was dismantled, except for a couple of people as to which GuildMule was one of them. They got in a few Yes men for a new PvP Group and by the following friday Publish 46 was live on all shards.
It was ram rodded.
"have they not taken a look at "Infectious Strike" yet? Adding a delay or timer when using mortal, bleed, disarm but nothing for infectious strike?"Thats funny
Forgot to mention that infectious strike also nerfed by increased mana to perform
see that little QUESTION MARK above? That means I was asking a question, not saying "Oh goody they nerfd infectious strike, btw can they nerf it some more Pweeez?"
Thanks Goldberg that saved me typing it up. All of the above is spot on. Every single con on the above will contribute to the death of the warrior class, some more than others.
Then all the nerfs to the warrior class swing speed (stam loss SSI loss from armor stam pot timer) and not a single nerf to slow down a casters speed makes me believe there is more to this than just a armor/weapons rebalance
the sky is falling!!!!!!
the sky is FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the sky is FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah wiseass, it kinda is. Let me guess, you're one of those lucky people who wouldn't have to trash everything he owns and start over again if this went through. Good for you, but I've had about enough of people trying to conspicuously demonstrate their supposed level-headedness by obnoxiously shouting how much they don't care about changes that actually are rather alarming.
Or to put it another way, congrats on this incredibly informative and constructive post of yours. We're ever so lucky to have you here.
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All right, I've taken a few pokes at this over the last few days, and I think I've got a handle on it now. Here is what I would do, starting from the existing live servers as baseline.
* Remove the meditation penalty from non-med armor types, and remove the now-redundant mage armor property from UO. Balance resists on all armor types, including dragon armor.
* Have leather and metal add bonus properties to items crafted from them, just as wood adds bonus properties to items crafted from it now. Make the properties added by metal and dragonscales warrior-related, and the properties added by leather mage-related. Now warriors will want to wear heavy armor, and mages will want to wear light armor, but no one has to throw their existing suits away just to play the game.
* Make it such that the properties added by special materials do not count toward imbuing caps at all. Having to imbue armor made of plain material and then risk breaking it with an enhancing attempt is one thing when it only applies to wood, but it's not acceptable when it applies to everything anyone makes.
(Hey won't the EA store sell less Forged Metal of Artifacts then? No, it'll sell more if metal adds actual useful properties. Everyone running around with a nice Splintering Weapon, for example, will want to enhance it for a free item property, but won't want to break it. Better buy a Forged Metal.)
* While you're at it, reduce the interface bloat when you mouse over an item. Maybe hide standard characteristics like base speed/damage/weight behind a double-click. My kryss doesn't need to tell me "Yes I have the same base damage as every kryss in UO!" every single time I ever look at it. Or just color-code some of that text. It's getting out of hand, and adding more properties to everything will only exacerbate it.
* Make it such that the slowest weapon in UO is 3.5 seconds, and re-balance damage from there. No one is ever going to use things like halberds and war maces otherwise. Speed has tactical value unto itself, separate from simple DPS.
* Allow crushing blow to stack with Bushido perfection as it ought to. Right now crushing blow is worth NEGATIVE damage after the first few hits. If it stacked, it might become more of a contender.
* Remove the meditation penalty from non-med armor types, and remove the now-redundant mage armor property from UO. Balance resists on all armor types, including dragon armor.
* Have leather and metal add bonus properties to items crafted from them, just as wood adds bonus properties to items crafted from it now. Make the properties added by metal and dragonscales warrior-related, and the properties added by leather mage-related. Now warriors will want to wear heavy armor, and mages will want to wear light armor, but no one has to throw their existing suits away just to play the game.
* Make it such that the properties added by special materials do not count toward imbuing caps at all. Having to imbue armor made of plain material and then risk breaking it with an enhancing attempt is one thing when it only applies to wood, but it's not acceptable when it applies to everything anyone makes.
(Hey won't the EA store sell less Forged Metal of Artifacts then? No, it'll sell more if metal adds actual useful properties. Everyone running around with a nice Splintering Weapon, for example, will want to enhance it for a free item property, but won't want to break it. Better buy a Forged Metal.)
* While you're at it, reduce the interface bloat when you mouse over an item. Maybe hide standard characteristics like base speed/damage/weight behind a double-click. My kryss doesn't need to tell me "Yes I have the same base damage as every kryss in UO!" every single time I ever look at it. Or just color-code some of that text. It's getting out of hand, and adding more properties to everything will only exacerbate it.
* Make it such that the slowest weapon in UO is 3.5 seconds, and re-balance damage from there. No one is ever going to use things like halberds and war maces otherwise. Speed has tactical value unto itself, separate from simple DPS.
* Allow crushing blow to stack with Bushido perfection as it ought to. Right now crushing blow is worth NEGATIVE damage after the first few hits. If it stacked, it might become more of a contender.
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I am sorry for mainly pointing out the negatives but it is just so frustrating to me that this gigantic revamp made it all the way to test and it funnels down to 2 things for all warriors:
1) All warrior suits have to be thrown out and alot of weapons have to be switched out
2) Almost all effective warrior pvp has been crippled in every way possible (nerfed the moves, nerfed the ability to generate mana for the nerfed moves,nerfed the ssi needed for the weapons, and nerfed the ability to regenerate the stamina/ssi needed for all weapons)
It really is as if the Devs sat down and said "how can we make this game infinitely more challenging for warriors while keeping the status quo for casters?" Then they went out and methodically did just that step by step.
All the while not realizing that other then throwers there has been quite a nice mage vs warrior pvp balance for quite some time now.
But what bothers me the most is that on top of all the above warrior nerfs they did a one-sided only nerf on disarm and animal form.
Wrestlemages are ridiculously immune to the disarm cooldown and mages have the inherant fc/fcr to still effectively use animal form without having to change a thing.
I am sorry bud but what is on test right now is a triple kick to the nuts of all warriors and no amount of 'possible' feedback/tweaks will change the overall effect of slowing down warriors to ineffective speeds.
Normally I am the one saying "this isn't as big a deal as it seems, everyone will adapt."
Normally I'm right.
This time I'm one of he ones sounding the alarm bells.
-Galen's player
True
But "the sky is falling" is simply a phrase used by the uninformed to replace any lack of real knowledge of subject matter at hand.
It is for people that have no clue what is going on in a thread yet want to be able to post something.
I was agreeing that the Publish was bad, that while many times it's totally appropriate to ridicule complainers with the glib phrase "the sky is falling," in this case, it is not appropriate, because everything I have heard and read leads me to believe that the complainers quite-likely are correct this time.True
But "the sky is falling" is simply a phrase used by the uninformed to replace any lack of real knowledge of subject matter at hand.
It is for people that have no clue what is going on in a thread yet want to be able to post something.
-Galen's player
I still have that forum bookmarked, checking it here and there for the hope that it was reopened which has never happened. I recall that as again a short lived time where nothing positive came from it. Similar to the private EA forum for the SA release which only allowed a select few to corner the market and get alot of gold for nothing.
All this said Goldberg's list is dead on. I'd like to add to it but it covers all the bases more or less dead on and I commend him for the effort.
WHERE ARE THE DAMN REPLIES FROM THE TEAM? Don't leave us all hanging again, I thought that Mesanna said Bleak had some thick skin well where is he to discuss these things? It's now Wednesday and a full 5 days since these Pub notes went public and I've seen next to nothing from them.
Actully I thought about this the other day and it hit me again just now.
From my understanding this is all about crafted armor only or am I wrong?
The reason why I ask that question was because artifacts came to my mind. So will this publish inlcude artifacts with the same type of bonus depending on the material its made from or not?
Sorry if this has been already discussed but so many pages to read and so little time
From my understanding this is all about crafted armor only or am I wrong?
The reason why I ask that question was because artifacts came to my mind. So will this publish inlcude artifacts with the same type of bonus depending on the material its made from or not?
Sorry if this has been already discussed but so many pages to read and so little time
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All Armor: Crafted, Looted, & Artifacts. if the item has "Mage Armor" the SSI Debuff is removed against attackers & the Mana Phase Effect is also removed. I'm not so sure about the Stamina Protection, but if the SP is removed as well mage armor will not have become a "useful" mod.
Like i said in another thread.
This is the worst idea since someone put mayo in my pb&j!!! This will effectively kill pvm and make pvp so tedious that it wont be worth the effort. Want a better idea? Fix the damn bank bug, open bank then trade bammm client crash this has been in the game for like forever man.. Want to balance pvp get rid of the cheaters/hackers! There should be no way a player on foot can out run a mounted player!!
This is the worst idea since someone put mayo in my pb&j!!! This will effectively kill pvm and make pvp so tedious that it wont be worth the effort. Want a better idea? Fix the damn bank bug, open bank then trade bammm client crash this has been in the game for like forever man.. Want to balance pvp get rid of the cheaters/hackers! There should be no way a player on foot can out run a mounted player!!
Ok after some "Kal Vas Flam" (and i was waiting for them ....), let me resume as far as we have about this patch :
Weapon Revamp
--------------------
About this, in general, isnt a bad change, there are some of them like composite bow that are bad, but in general isnt a bad change.
Weapon Special Move Updates
--------------------------------------
I would expected a better update than this, specially with the feint/leafbalde issue and would expected making the bad moves we have, a bit better (Bladeweave is the WORST hehe)
Weapon Special Move Mana Cost Changes
---------------------------------------------------
Need more testing on this to make an opinion.
Weapon Special Move Changes
-------------------------------------
Some changes are good here, other are bad as hell.
Need more testing.
Armor Inherent Mana Phase
----------------------------------
we got a buff here, nothing bad, and is passive, so dont need to calculate anything at all, let it be and let it proc.....
Armor Inherent SSI Debuff
---------------------------------
About this one, some people said is really BAD, and is a nerf, but you are all wrong.
It is indeed, another free buff we have here, not bad for pvm and ISNT a big issue at pvp
(Before i got more "Kal Vas Flam" , ill explain it )
You got a 10% of chance every 30s to put a debuff on the attacker (we dont know how much is
the debuff, the 30% is aplied to pvm but doesnt mean is the same for pvp, more info needed here)
The debuff last 5s, so you COULD have the debuff 10s at max every 60s, and that if we got
the 10% proc triggered by luck, each time. (10% theorically means it will trigger 1 hit every 10.....)
So dont tell me this will ruin pvp like some people did........ ( it couldbe annoying , yes , but a killer .....)
Combat changes
--------------------
* garg hci needed, wasnt fair.
* HLD now would work as it must have been always, no more GOD mode against HLD.
* Ninjitsu, same as above, no more GOD animal mode. (but need to make fc/fcr dont affect it)
* Throwing change, need more info on formulas and testing........
* necromancy vs Stone form -> good change
* Stam timer --> i like the idea, but 10s make it inviable, 4s-5s would be more logical.
* HSL , this change depend on the stam issue formulas, they need to balance the whole system.
* cleansing wings, i think it is already enough powerfull, so i think this will affect
a lot on pvp making a mysticism player inmortal. (and i play a mystic-mage-bard)
* chivalry, same as HSL.
We still need to know about the part 2 issue before we can say if is really bad or not, but we ALL know the stam new system is broken right now on TC1, we know it need to be balanced, THEY now it as well,
LETS HAVE SOME PATIENCE AND LET THEM WORK.......
Please make constructive feedbacks, thx.
Weapon Revamp
--------------------
About this, in general, isnt a bad change, there are some of them like composite bow that are bad, but in general isnt a bad change.
Weapon Special Move Updates
--------------------------------------
I would expected a better update than this, specially with the feint/leafbalde issue and would expected making the bad moves we have, a bit better (Bladeweave is the WORST hehe)
Weapon Special Move Mana Cost Changes
---------------------------------------------------
Need more testing on this to make an opinion.
Weapon Special Move Changes
-------------------------------------
Some changes are good here, other are bad as hell.
Need more testing.
Armor Inherent Mana Phase
----------------------------------
we got a buff here, nothing bad, and is passive, so dont need to calculate anything at all, let it be and let it proc.....
Armor Inherent SSI Debuff
---------------------------------
About this one, some people said is really BAD, and is a nerf, but you are all wrong.
It is indeed, another free buff we have here, not bad for pvm and ISNT a big issue at pvp
(Before i got more "Kal Vas Flam" , ill explain it )
You got a 10% of chance every 30s to put a debuff on the attacker (we dont know how much is
the debuff, the 30% is aplied to pvm but doesnt mean is the same for pvp, more info needed here)
The debuff last 5s, so you COULD have the debuff 10s at max every 60s, and that if we got
the 10% proc triggered by luck, each time. (10% theorically means it will trigger 1 hit every 10.....)
So dont tell me this will ruin pvp like some people did........ ( it couldbe annoying , yes , but a killer .....)
Combat changes
--------------------
* garg hci needed, wasnt fair.
* HLD now would work as it must have been always, no more GOD mode against HLD.
* Ninjitsu, same as above, no more GOD animal mode. (but need to make fc/fcr dont affect it)
* Throwing change, need more info on formulas and testing........
* necromancy vs Stone form -> good change
* Stam timer --> i like the idea, but 10s make it inviable, 4s-5s would be more logical.
* HSL , this change depend on the stam issue formulas, they need to balance the whole system.
* cleansing wings, i think it is already enough powerfull, so i think this will affect
a lot on pvp making a mysticism player inmortal. (and i play a mystic-mage-bard)
* chivalry, same as HSL.
We still need to know about the part 2 issue before we can say if is really bad or not, but we ALL know the stam new system is broken right now on TC1, we know it need to be balanced, THEY now it as well,
LETS HAVE SOME PATIENCE AND LET THEM WORK.......
Please make constructive feedbacks, thx.
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So no comment on the Stamina loss. That is the killer in this PUB for all Warrior class chars (PvP/PvM)
" We still need to know about the part 2 issue before we can say if is really bad or not, but we ALL know the stam new system is broken right now on TC1, we know it need to be balanced, THEY now it as well,
LETS HAVE SOME PATIENCE AND LET THEM WORK....... "
I did yes.........
LETS HAVE SOME PATIENCE AND LET THEM WORK....... "
I did yes.........
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So you are assuming that part 2 will NEFR the NERF.
No, i mean that they know about the stam issue on part 1, the formulas are broken and need to be repaired, but that doesnt mean anything about part 2.
I hope like most people, that part 2 will be something about the materials we use on armors, to make them something like wood ones.
I hope like most people, that part 2 will be something about the materials we use on armors, to make them something like wood ones.
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I've been away for more than a year now due to the lack of excitement in the game, but this new approach looks very interesting - MAYBE.
My warriors have been waiting for a reason to wear platemails instead of disgusting leathers for years. I hope the platemail changes isn't just about stam, but should also absort spell damages finally for Lord B's sake!
But like others have said, this new approach will WIPE OUT all our current armors/weapons settings. BIG OUCH.
But, Armor/Weapon in UO does need a major change like this scale, but not sure if this version is it. Making it just in a different way but still complicated? Or more simple? Doesn't matter as long as things make sense.
We the players are focusing too much on in-game mechanism, but Devs are probably also thinking about bigger changes in larger scale in terms of development / evolution - which is what we need now.
My warriors have been waiting for a reason to wear platemails instead of disgusting leathers for years. I hope the platemail changes isn't just about stam, but should also absort spell damages finally for Lord B's sake!
But like others have said, this new approach will WIPE OUT all our current armors/weapons settings. BIG OUCH.
But, Armor/Weapon in UO does need a major change like this scale, but not sure if this version is it. Making it just in a different way but still complicated? Or more simple? Doesn't matter as long as things make sense.
We the players are focusing too much on in-game mechanism, but Devs are probably also thinking about bigger changes in larger scale in terms of development / evolution - which is what we need now.
When did a DEV come on and tell us that the Stamina loss formuls were broken and needed to be repaired? Did we all miss that? Yes they know about it, they made it that way.
- Status