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This is exactly how I feel... If someone REALLY wanted their stuff they would have taken better care of it.
Everyone knows how the game works..... you pay to play... If you don't want your house to go IDOC and drop then don't stop paying.
And yes I'm aware things come up and you have to leave but IMO if you know you have to leave you ought to pack your stuff.
If you left and didn't think you were coming back but did you ought to know the consequences.
I don't EVER think that you should be able to use soulstones and get someone elses skills.... they should be wiped and then rebound. I could just see the sales sites if soulstones with skills were allowed to be traded and used..... *rolls eyes* .... that would be a MAJOR mistake.
Only "downside" I can see if this were to be implemented is that people who today don´t grab soulstones would start going for them at IDOCs giving the people who grab them to safe keep more competition.
Other than that, I see no issues with the proposal.
Other than that, I see no issues with the proposal.
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I don't personally have an issue with a trade in. Couple of reasons.
- Studies conducted in other MMO's show that 94% of players who don't log in at least once over a 30 day period never log back in among what are typically viewed as "Hardcore" players this rate is higher. IDOC's occur after 90 days of account billing inactivity, 3 times this length of time. The majority will probably not be back.
- Soulstone graveyards are well and good, but honestly how many are returned over the course of a year, 2 years, 5 years in comparison to the number of houses that fall.
- Those who originally owned the Soulstone knew they were letting their account lapse you get an E-mail, and a Blocked message on the login screen.
- The majority of Soulstones either decay uncollected at an IDOC, or are trashed by those who do pick them up, these are lost as surely as those which may be turned in.
- If you want to call "Betrayal" considering the account bound to the stone let their account lapse, with warnings, then it is they (the now quit player) would deserve the label due to contributing to the slow attrition in population of the game, and by proxy help the Suits at EA decide UO needs less funding leading to more closed accounts.
- If they had really cared they'd have banked those stones to start with.
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I also agree, there is nothing wrong with a fair trade-in system.
Who left, left usually willing and had enough time to return to claim his stuff.
OK, I also lost a loaded house once by accident, with Soulstones, Soulstone tokens, rares, ...
But I simply cannot expect that others care for me and use their valuable lockdowns for me. Such expectation would be greedy.
And if people, who collected and kept soulstones from other players or own accounts for a long time knowing they have no real value get a chance to have a benefit now, its simply ok.
No betrayal in there, in the maximum self betrayal of the players who lost them initially.
Who left, left usually willing and had enough time to return to claim his stuff.
OK, I also lost a loaded house once by accident, with Soulstones, Soulstone tokens, rares, ...
But I simply cannot expect that others care for me and use their valuable lockdowns for me. Such expectation would be greedy.
And if people, who collected and kept soulstones from other players or own accounts for a long time knowing they have no real value get a chance to have a benefit now, its simply ok.
No betrayal in there, in the maximum self betrayal of the players who lost them initially.
Soulstones differ from other IDOC loot. They represent individual game play and individual players like nothing else in UO.
All 70 ish stones I own came from IDOCs of scammers and cheaters. Those that duped items and stole from little children. Know how I know this? I knew the team and had access to the house when they were perma banned.
Well, not really, but it is a good story to the other side of the coin. Not all stones come from old friends who will probably never return. And if they do and are out a stone, there are some other friends with mass wealth that, Im sure, will gladly hand over 100m to get them back in game and set up with some new stones. I have a token for sale on Europa if you're interested...
THP, you're the one posting the most on here about how great it is to finally have all these IDOCs, what great items you're getting... Seems a bit ironic that you come on here saying hey I have all your deco and other cool items, but if you want your stones back, come and get them...
A penalty for not giving back an item to a returning player is plain stupid.
Well, not really, but it is a good story to the other side of the coin. Not all stones come from old friends who will probably never return. And if they do and are out a stone, there are some other friends with mass wealth that, Im sure, will gladly hand over 100m to get them back in game and set up with some new stones. I have a token for sale on Europa if you're interested...
THP, you're the one posting the most on here about how great it is to finally have all these IDOCs, what great items you're getting... Seems a bit ironic that you come on here saying hey I have all your deco and other cool items, but if you want your stones back, come and get them...
A penalty for not giving back an item to a returning player is plain stupid.
Congrats, you dragged me into a thread about an issue I couldn't care less about. Calling them "betrayal stones" would be a misuse of the word betrayal. These soulstones were not entrusted to anyone to look after while players took indefinite leave from the game. Nobody is cashing in on soulstones that were promised to be kept in their absence while they went off to play other games. Now, if an old guildie asked me to keep their stone because they had to cancel their subscription because of money problems, or they were going over-seas...and I turned in their stone for personal gain..THAT would be betrayal. For my part, I do go after IDOCs when I'm so inclined and some of my favorite items are whispering roses and other player named items; and player-written books.
I'm making a "whispering" rose garden of all the players I used to play with, and a library to house all the books I've come across, as well as writing a few of my own about the history of past players and guilds. So if you're trashing those items or turning them in for clean-up points, I guess you're betraying their contribution to the game (or playing the game the way you see fit). (what's the emote for sarcasm? A winky face just doesn't seem to do it justice).
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How? Everything in an IDOC shows that players individual gameplay from whether they were strictly pvp, pvm, a crafter, or a jack of all trades.
A soulstone doesn't mean anything as far as individuality. For instance if my keep fell, you will find soulstones with all the taming related skills. Under your assumption I would be viewed as an avid tamer. That would be farther from the truth. I havnt used taming in years and all you would be doing is labeling me based on skills i once or rarely use.
Dumbest idea ever.
Soulstones SHOULD be able to be used by any account as long as no skill is on the stone. As someone already stated, many of us are paying a lot of money for multiple accounts, and we should be able to use those stones between different accounts.
As for stones from IDOCS, get real. There is nothing wrong with allowing players to use those stones as well. If you want to hold on to soulstones you find in the hopes that a player will one day return, and seek you out, and meet up with you, and identify the stone they lost... then by all means, hang on to them. Offering a way to recycle those stones does not force you to do that. But it should be an option for those who want to.
If the devs do not want to do a straight up 1 to 1 swap, then a 2 to 1 swap is about as high as it should go. Turning in more than that is just plain lame. Lets start rewarding the people who are still playing (and paying) for UO instead of crying over those who left. There are plenty of people who are willing to help out new and returning players.
You are also missing a very obvious line of logic here as well; if you really want to help out a new player, then being able to give them a soulstone or two when they return would be a lot easier if there was a way to recycle the soulstones. The chances of someone tracking down the actual stones they lost are pretty darn small. But if you could turn in a used soulstone for a new one, then you would have plenty of usable soulstones to give away to returning players if you want to. If you actually put a little thought into this option you would see that you would be able to help MORE returning players by allowing a straight 1 to 1 swap of any soulstone.
Soulstones SHOULD be able to be used by any account as long as no skill is on the stone. As someone already stated, many of us are paying a lot of money for multiple accounts, and we should be able to use those stones between different accounts.
As for stones from IDOCS, get real. There is nothing wrong with allowing players to use those stones as well. If you want to hold on to soulstones you find in the hopes that a player will one day return, and seek you out, and meet up with you, and identify the stone they lost... then by all means, hang on to them. Offering a way to recycle those stones does not force you to do that. But it should be an option for those who want to.
If the devs do not want to do a straight up 1 to 1 swap, then a 2 to 1 swap is about as high as it should go. Turning in more than that is just plain lame. Lets start rewarding the people who are still playing (and paying) for UO instead of crying over those who left. There are plenty of people who are willing to help out new and returning players.
You are also missing a very obvious line of logic here as well; if you really want to help out a new player, then being able to give them a soulstone or two when they return would be a lot easier if there was a way to recycle the soulstones. The chances of someone tracking down the actual stones they lost are pretty darn small. But if you could turn in a used soulstone for a new one, then you would have plenty of usable soulstones to give away to returning players if you want to. If you actually put a little thought into this option you would see that you would be able to help MORE returning players by allowing a straight 1 to 1 swap of any soulstone.
I like this idea.
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No, under my assumption I would conclude you spent the time to master those skills. I am not big on labels.
I don't think so. Skills can be re-worked. NBD. Its their loss.
I would prefer they offer a tool that unlocks a stone for use by a different account.
What about the player-run establishments? Where do you think they got the stones in the first place? Do you think being able to turn them in would change the mind-set of the players running these establishments? What does being able to swap used stones for new ones have to do with an anti-community spirit?
Umm... let me see here... let's think about "betrayal." So you suggest that we should be reminded of their (seriously, THEIR) betrayal to others in this "awesome" game... because, um... what? Because these stones belonged to people who used to play?
Let me define a version of betrayal that perhaps you hadn't thought of. Perhaps these soulstones should be traded 1:1 as a reward to their new owners because they were taken from players who betrayed the other players of the game. Now, this is an equally silly definition of the word "betrayal," but if you insist on using such strong language, then certainly those of us left playing should feel betrayed that these other players left the game, because it is their lack of subscription dollars that has reduced the development team to the state that it is. If they hadn't left this awesome game in search of something new to play, we might actually get work on a new expansion.
Personally, I think a 5:1 trade is pretty decent for soulstone to regular soulstone. As for soulstone fragments, maybe let them be traded 5:1 per charge on a limited soulstone. Find 50 charges, you have a 10 charge fragment. This way regular stones retain their value, while fragments don't gain functionality they never had. And what is presently a useless item gets some use again.
As for betrayal? I mean, seriously? By the way, stone leaching (seriously, LEACHING)? I mean, come on. A 2% loss for trying to save skills? Seriously, while soulstones were probably a bad idea from the get-go, removing the whole choice factor in the game, it's waaaaay too late to put that thing back in the box, so let's not come up with arbitrary, nonsensical plans to make renewed stones function differently.
Oy. Vey.
As long as they wipe it first, that's fine. But swapping skills between accounts... not a good idea.
Who here thinks that these people who are so conserned about returning players recovering their soulstones would be so conserend if these stones were not account bound?
If soulstones were not account bound, i bet these IDOC'ers would not be so keen to keep a soulstone grave yard. I bet these people would be selling off the stones on there vendor. Crocodile tears is what i see
If soulstones were not account bound, i bet these IDOC'ers would not be so keen to keep a soulstone grave yard. I bet these people would be selling off the stones on there vendor. Crocodile tears is what i see
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Because people troll....and Great Idocers like myself are very trollable people i guess......simple.....back onto the subject please........The SOULSTONE TURN IN..Thoughts pllease ..[NOT] ....Idoc'ers
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The Europa EM was asked direct by myself ....so they know about it....i just dont think they know what the Devs plans are with this sily turn-in idea they posted.
I don't get your logic.
I maintain a soulstone graveyard and I DONT want a turn in system. If there is such a system I could sell off over 700 of those stones, giving me great profit. Yet I'm the one lobbying heavily AGAINST such a thing which profits me most.
I too hold quite a few, and have held them now for over 5 years on most of them. Not a single player has come back for the ones i have.
My logic is simple, if they were not account bound this thread would not be here, the soulstones would be sold on a vendor by the very same IDOC'ers that sell most the stuff they get from IDOC's and we would not be having this conversation.
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By the way, how hard have you tried to find the owners?
Did you put them in accessible boxes so people can try them out? Did you advertise your service on the forums? Did you make sure that many people in the community knew that you had a soulstone collection and people could pick them up?
I only run the soulstone graveyard for a few weeks now and I already had some returning players showing up to look for their old soulstones. So it's definately a community service that is in demand.
Did you put them in accessible boxes so people can try them out? Did you advertise your service on the forums? Did you make sure that many people in the community knew that you had a soulstone collection and people could pick them up?
I only run the soulstone graveyard for a few weeks now and I already had some returning players showing up to look for their old soulstones. So it's definately a community service that is in demand.
I know most of the people personaly, if they returned i would know. Its only a Vet reward! no better than any other vet reward. Skills can be worked up now in a day, not like the old days where it took weeks just to get to GM. Soulstones can be crafted now, so thres no great value in them.
For one the soulstone was a bad ideal that the bean counters should of not let happen from the start. Not evil just bad.
If soulstones without skills saved on it was not locked to an account, maybe. An acoount that owns a stone should have the option to unlock a stones ownership. That would allow a player to exchange stones between their accounts, mentioned thought earlier. Bad side would be someone paid for the stone or used a reward pick to make a profit in gold. Happens already with other bought and reward pick items, so no problem.
There should never be a turn in for clean stones in return. For the very reason if you want one, go buy one and support your local fav MMO.
If soulstones without skills saved on it was not locked to an account, maybe. An acoount that owns a stone should have the option to unlock a stones ownership. That would allow a player to exchange stones between their accounts, mentioned thought earlier. Bad side would be someone paid for the stone or used a reward pick to make a profit in gold. Happens already with other bought and reward pick items, so no problem.
There should never be a turn in for clean stones in return. For the very reason if you want one, go buy one and support your local fav MMO.
If A HOUSE falls the contents drops to the floor...if it is not cleaned up it will simply decay...so lets be honest its best to pick it up.....i used to run the graveyard on europa b4 passing the mantle onto the last owner Padraic....we set it up so any stones could be retuned to returning players... pixel gold is worthless.....120 skill in taming is priceless......u go figure which item a player would sooner have back if indeed they lost the house..even due to there own fault.... its still a great honor to give the stones back... and yes i have done this around a dozen times... and guess what NOT ONCE did the owners ask were the rest of there stuff was!!!!!!!!! they were over the moon at getting there soulstones back and the hard hours they put in to getting the high skills....ENOUGH!!
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I can see the argument, but it has rather a problem - the hideous farce of the EA accounts website enters the equation, where people find out too late subs have been cancelled, or they can't manage to navigate the mess of a system to get accounts activated, reactivated or linked to their main 'identity' on that site.
My point was to leave the skills on it. Otherwise it is back to a swap.
What about a turn-in where in order to reclaim your soulstone you have to pay ___ amount of gold... that gold is then put in the phantom bank of the individual who turned them in that they can click an object or talk to an NPC to claim. That way folks get a "reward" if they want, the soulstones aren't lost and we aren't creating wealth. If those who lose their soulstones want them, they'll pay for them.... and if the person who turned them in leaves the game, doesn't check if they have a payment, etc... well it will function like a gold sink.
Even at that if it takes you more than 90 days you're NOT that committed. Just saying.
Why?
Because worked skills should not become a commodity. If I could sell you my 120 magery, and then work it up again and sell it again, it creates a dynamic in-game where skills become the newest thing to profit off of, and never, EVER should skills become something to be traded. I'm not truly fond of account-bound soulstones, but I'm used to them, and what you do among your 5-7 characters is certainly up to you, but there's absolutely no need to make it so you can sell skills to others.
Nor, really, do I think that you should be able to transfer them between your own accounts. Believe me, I would benefit from this if they put it in, but I feel pretty strongly that the skill dynamic is muddied enough and does not need further muddying.
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I agree, Skills should never be on a plain to be bought and sold.
One of the major interests and attractions to this game is working your way up in a given skill.
I know some will disagree with the "grind" but that being said. Ultima and its adventure to become an avatar of legend, skill, virtues and all, is about the time you put into the game and the community you build with.
We need to maintain the time in place to become that Avatar of legend
One of the major interests and attractions to this game is working your way up in a given skill.
I know some will disagree with the "grind" but that being said. Ultima and its adventure to become an avatar of legend, skill, virtues and all, is about the time you put into the game and the community you build with.
We need to maintain the time in place to become that Avatar of legend
Personally, I think that the right thing to do for Ultima Online would be to make sure that the lost Soulstones are made available for returning players who often come back to the game.
Coming back to the game after a while back and being able to retrieve one's own account lost soulstones is, I would think, what would get a returning player in the best mood to start playing Ultima Online again ! That would increase the chances, is my opinion, to have another active subscription up and running !
How could it be done ?
I think it could be quite easy and not much asking for resources, just set up a special NPC where players who found old Soulstones at IDOCs can go to to turn them in, they would receive in exchange Clean Up Britannia points for good rewards (existing code so not much work required) and the NPC would store the received Soulstone informations (account it belongs to, skill and points stored). Then, when a character coming back to UO from that one account approaches the NPC asking for Soulstones stored for that account, the NPC would recognize that account and hand over whatever Soulstones have been turned in to the NPC over the past time.
I think this could help the returning player retrieving lost Soulstones start playing UO again with a much better mood thus helping UO gey a new active subscription perhaps for a longer time.
And the system for turning in and claiming would be fast and easy.
Just a thought.
UO already has a way to reclaim soulstones after you come back from a long break, its called going to your bank box and getting them. If you forget to put the soul stones in the bank before you leave, then they won't be there.
As for the argument about skills as a commodity, I remind everyone that you can buy and sell whole accounts.
There can be lots of reasons why players lost their homes with Soulstones in them. Personally, I think that making the returning of players to Ultima Online easier would be good for the game.
More returning players means more active subscriptions and thus more revenues for the game which allow for more stuff to be done and new content be added.
So, why not make lost Soulstones retrieved from IDOCS be made available again to returning players and their accounts if this can help Ultima Online ??
Players who found them at IDOCS have no use for them other then decorative. A turn in system in exchange for Clean Up Britannia points that would make them available to those returning players who might this way claim them back, I guess would make these players come back to Ultima Online hopefully happy to be able to claim back their lost Soultones so helping the game to increase its active subscriptions.
I mean, as of now they are of no use to other players (other then decorative). Making them usefull again for those returning players who lost them would actually bring them back to their use with an advantage for Ultima Online as a whole.
Why not do it then ??
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That is.......a very good idea.......if the devs could implement this to work..........
You wouldn't use a soul stone that made you grind imbuing for just 2 points?
So how long do you think someone will want to play, when they come back and they used to have 120 Imbuing, but because the soulstone it was on has been traded in so someone else can have a material reward, they now have to grind the entire 120 points out once more?
Of course, you're relying on them never ever knowing that it had happened, so they don't suffer any resentment, but you're still expecting them (or just not caring about) to do 100 times more than you're prepared to do. Many of them won't be able to face it either. So if all of those claiming they really care about the game's health actually mean it, well there's one way you can help; Any soulstone you find with skills on it, hand it in to the nearest Soulstone saving host for returning players to check and maybe get a nice surprise from; and who knows, you may just have saved another subscription in the future too.
And any Devs reading this; What should you do with them instead of this terrible idea of converting them into Cash 4 Soulz? Well Castle Blackthorn has lots of room. Why doesn't he host a Britain Library kind of donation scheme, which stores the soulstones in an automated library for all returning players to be simply pointed towards and able to check, and automatically claim back from. You can even give small rewards to people to hand them in, Spring Cleaning points maybe to encourage the community spirit it's obvious many do not have...
I have said it before, and many other people have said it, if you cared so little to not bank your stuff, too bad. I have returned Soul Stones in the past on occasion, however all of these turn in to save em for the 1 out of 1000 people that "might" come back to UO long enough to use a skill they so thoughtlessly let go as trash are ridiculous. I am saving all SS I find from IDOC's or other places right now as I anticipate the future of the Dev's possibility of a turn-in/swap. However if anything is ever put in place that even closely resembles your idea, or those similar, the only chance SS I find have of ever making it to that turn in is if the rare SS makes it to the cavern of the discarded when I throw it away.
my idea doesnt have to go unmerited. they could make a reward to you for dropping in stones and make a cost to the owners (double the reward perhaps) to take them out. personally I dont care, i would give them back free of charge anyhow. currently i have about 20 I have been sitting on for 6 years so I do have skin in the game.
there seems to be a split in opinions....BIGTIME.....simple too ....1, self greed and ........2 ,commuinity spirit
1....those that have hoarded stones for years hoping eventually they will be usefull/tradeable...willing to trash someones 120 taming at a drop of a hat for a fist full of gold coins..........they ''want the turn in ''....... LOL
2....those that have tried to save the stones in public museums for returning players on there return realizing that pixel gold is easy to replace while high skills are not!!!!.....they ....''dont want''.......... the turn in....LOL
1....those that have hoarded stones for years hoping eventually they will be usefull/tradeable...willing to trash someones 120 taming at a drop of a hat for a fist full of gold coins..........they ''want the turn in ''....... LOL
2....those that have tried to save the stones in public museums for returning players on there return realizing that pixel gold is easy to replace while high skills are not!!!!.....they ....''dont want''.......... the turn in....LOL
Note: I have been saving Soul Stones for people returning and people have been more then willing to give them to me after a house drop.
Now after this "Idea" they are one of the first things taken. most likely they will be thrown out as garbage latter.
Now after this "Idea" they are one of the first things taken. most likely they will be thrown out as garbage latter.
Point well taken. I am one that is holding them for returning players.
But just the announcement is creating a new form of hording. I don't like the way the system works today and it became worse with this 'idea'
My opinion to delete soul stones all together and put them on you paper doll under skills that way they can not be lost.
Mmhmmm... yes, yes you can. But you cannot piecemeal that account. Not the same thing in any way, shape or form. You can't sell a single character or a single skill... it's all or nothing. Again, skills should not become a commodity.
For many, the whole reason to buy an account is for the skills.
Yes... I think we all understand that. But that player then plays with those skills on that account, which he then has to pay for, et cetera.
He can't buy an account and then use the skills on a different account.
There is a significant difference between you buying my account for the skills, and me just walking into Luna to find myself 120 in magery because I want to try something new. A VERY significant difference.