Crafters useful without runics, impossible?

[Coppelia]

If you kill balrons one after another, then you diserve to get a shot in the table of rewards. It may SEEM less difficult as time goes by, but there's still an obstacle (the balron), and you only get your reward if you are able to kill it. And if you're even better, you can kill more and get more rewards.
Even if the balron alone is less a challenge by itself for you, it's still an obstacle and players who aren't able to kill it like you do won't get the reward.

For BODs, "lots of crafting" isn't an obstacle. It's one of the ways to beat the obstacle : the RNG. To beat a RNG there's only one tactic : trigger it more often.
If you do a lot of crafting and fill lower BODs, you can get more attempts on the RNG. And it's the only solution to have more chance to get Heartwood quests runics. Alas in UO, doing more crafting means : getting more ressource (which isn't crafting), lots of clicking or just waiting for the tool automate in KR, and then more clicks to fill the BODs. Nowhere the player need to be good or smart at it.

And contrary to other parts of UO, you are encouraged to do things that doesn't have any sense in a game : multiply the characters with crafting skills, multiply your accounts, etc.

 

[Landicine]

While I was accused of getting off topic before, I'm not going to point out that the topic seems to have changed from "I want to be able to make meaningful items without runics" to "The BOD system doesn't fit my view of a challenge."

Let me start with saying that there should be a bit of work involved with making an uber item. You mentioned inscription, let's talk about that. I burned through 30k scrolls to make a particular book for an RP event, and none of them compare with the Scrapper's Compendium. However, I can make a magic spell book with 2 seconds and ten scrolls. A Scrapper's takes a recipe and many ingredients that take killing a bunch of peerless (20 minor ingredients and 1 dread horn mane). One is clearly a challenge to make; one isn't.

If suddenly they allow us to make magic weapons on par with those made with runics without runics, those of us who either put our time or money (gotten through activities you consider significant obstacles) will hurt. It seems to me that you are saying that your dabbling in crafting is worth more than the person who put actual time into the task.

I consider the BoD system an obstacle. If I can be forgiven for going off topic, I'll give you a real life example. I work in the biological sciences, and the drug industry overlaps a bit with such sciences. Chemists working on new drugs have something called "Methyl, ethyl, butyl, futile." Basically it means that a lot of drug discover is luck: large chemistry and screening efforts to find a compound that actually does something. Sure we can do tests to limit it from the million compounds in a company archive to a few thousand, but those thousand present further potential compounds that must be made. Lots of random testing of junk compounds hoping that one of them actually affects something you don't completely understand. This system is oddly enough helped by having LOTS of people working on it. Teams of chemists. Teams of biologists. All to work on a project that has something like a >90% chance of failure. A bit of an obstacle.

The BOD system is not as complicated as real life, but oddly enough, as system that is supposed to represent bulk order crafting where a weapon seller outsources production of his weapons to a group of crafters, I think it sort of makes a little sense.

 

[Killian]

Maybe Runics shouldn't beef up items you make, but rather add a type of enhancement that doesn't offer an overkill on the item.

the way I see it, is a Legendary anything should be able to make some of the best weapons WITHOUT the use of a runic.. It's not the Runic that makes the item be special, its the crafter, they have the ability/talent/skill to make a item truely amazing.

Runics should add things such as (low end Night Sight High end Hit Lightning 60% or something of the sorts.) Runics just add a special "touch" of something, somethign they the crafter is feeling the item is missing. I would like to see the actual skill give out the crazy nice weapons, and not another item in the game play a role of " to have the best.. you need.. mee! "

 

[Landicine]

To get to legendary tailor or smith, you need the scroll (an item) gotten from doing BODs. I also know that working a skill isn't that hard. Inscription works sort of like you mentioned where based on your magery skill (100+) you can make special spellbooks with inscription. To have the best chance of making good books, you need 120 magery which is attainable from an item. I'm less of a fan of powerscrolls than of runics.

Removing runics from the system would take a major major revision to the system (something similar to the AoS change). While it would be interesting to see them add a skill like "Enchantment" that supplements Smithing and Tailoring like a runic or special ingredient, I think such a thing would have to be carefully planned out.

As for Legendary smithing and tailoring alone making the best stuff, they do make pretty decent non-magical mods which is why they are so good when stacked with runic bonuses. With the Arms lore bonus as well, you can make very nice items but it requries two skills and a magic hammer. I don't see a difference between a runic hammer and an artifact sword, except for the charges. A swordfighter can use a normal nonmagical sword and use his skill, but he needs that special item to actually tackle the harder challenges. Could you imagine the flames I'd receive if I said "I should be able to kill any monster in this game with just 120 swords and a sword I bought for 100 gold from an NPC?"

 

[Coppelia]

The warrior has to kill mobs and get loot from them. He kills then he decides if he keeps the dropped item.
The crafter first look at the loot (BOD) and decides if he keeps it. Then he kills the mob (fill the BOD). And that only every 6 hours.
That's walking on the head IMO. I'll end that parenthesis by an answer to your comparison with RL chemical laboratories. That's work. You're paid with RL money to do that, even if you don't find anything. More workers = more chance for the community to reach something. That's a lot different from UO, which is a game, not work, where character building isn't (or in this case shouldn't be) dependant on other characters you have. At least not more than on the characters of other players. BODs aren't a laboratory. An account is not a team of co-workers that MUST have the same skills to be efficient. Each character should have the possibility to be independant.

But for crafters it's mandatory to have several other characters to build one crafter. It's not normal IMO. And if that dependance was designed for players to build a community, it's not working. There's no crafter community using a BOD pool in common.
So, as everybody is working for his/her own runics, you should be able to stick to one character to get them.


There's two solutions :

• don't touch the current BOD/Heartwood quests system (but don't cry when you see bots), and add a few mods either to colored metal and leather like with wood, or to the item base in proportion of your skills.
• modify the BOD/Heartwood quests system so Runics are earned by a quest or a mini-game with degrees of success, that requires the player to use his/her brain and/or dexterity with a mouse, and fun. So it's not botted and it rewards with higher runics the best players.

Maybe it's time to think a better crafting system than a repetition of clicks. And of course EA HQ would move again before the implementation so it breaks the team and it's abandonned again.

 

[Landicine]

One line of yours was interesting: "Each character should have the possibility to be independent." I craft things for some characters with my crafters, I gather resources with my warriors to give to my crafters, etc. Just because my characters have varied skills, they aren't really independent. With those who focus on BODs, each character is filling the role that was intended to be filled by a separate person.

I think the original point of Bulk Order Deeds is missed. Originally, it was expected that people would trade, work together, etc. to fill large BODs. There was going to be a community. I remember doing BOD trading nights back then. There were vendors selling BODs. However, people figured out to avoid trading by simply making more crafters and by turning it into a solo operation. If enough people did BODs and actively traded, it would be possible to fill better BODs with less focused accounts. However, if someone wants to spend all his time working 5 crafters, he should probably be better at crafting than someone who has 1 crafter, 1 tamer, 1 mage, 1 fighter, 1 misc.

If the BOD system were more interesting, I might have a reason to go through those secures full of BODs rather than simply buying the hammers I need. However, I don't think making a system that's more complicated will always work. Take puzzle chests for example. A program to solve a simple puzzle like that is rather easy, especially for scripters who are doing complicated PvM scripts (there was a thread on this a day or so ago). The program would still beat a person in the long run, and if the problem were a dex puzzle, the same thing would happen (house decay placement problem). I still think people underestimate the skill of scripters to manipute any system.

I think adding new recipes and maybe tweaks to the properties of leather and metal might be a good idea. I have no problem with adding more to a system, but I do have a problem with taking stuff out of a system.

 

[Amber Moon]

I just want to point out that puzzle based crafting is not the end all, be all solution either. Both EQ2 and ATITD use puzzle and/or timed response type mini-games in their crafting.

These, while fun for a bit, become viewed as just another type of timer and annoyance that limits their productive to a lot of the players. When repetitively practiced, as is often required to achieve a significant reward, they are mastered and become little different then just clicking away on one button as we do now, albeit with a bit more attention required.

I have to agree that I don't believe it will shift the balance toward casual players and away from scripters.

Trading and community based solutions may be better solutions. In game tools which facilitate the easy of trading could aid this. Such as a shard wide auction system dedicated to BODs.

 

[galefan2004]

I don't really have an issue with the BOD reward system other than that most of the tailoring rewards are junk. Blacksmithy bods were readjusted to give better access to color bods for 120 smithy and I like that. I have never really hardcore scripted BODs and in 2 months I have gotten the large for a verite hammer, three larges for a barbed kit (one that I filled for under 200k), and plenty of bods for bronze hammers and horned kits.

Runics are not that hard to get. What is hard to accomplish now is finding any armor on a monster you kill that comes close to what can be crafted. The mistake was allowing crafted loot to far surpass farmed loot.

 

[galefan2004]

Ornate axe
Spell Channeling
SC -1
10% phys resist
11% cold resist
45% hit life leech
50% damage inc

from a high end hammer. lol.

speaking of, if hci was deemed not shield worthy why do we have resists on weapons?

Resists and SC -1 have no place on weapons at all. SC -1 has no place in the game entirely. We are way past the point at which the messed up system of AoS should be put more on par with the system introduced in ML. Special material bonuses for tailoring and blacksmithy need reworked and they need to weed through armor and weapon properties to adjust them to allow for more easily obtainable decent quality items. Also, there needs to be a BOD system for fletchers and carpenters (imagine how many people would be even more upset if the only way to get barbed kits and valorite hammers were the stupid heartwood quests).

I actually love the idea of being able to get materials off of monsters to make runic kits through tinkering much more than I like the BOD system giving runics. There should be an incentive for farming monsters outside of peerless bosses and Doom. Yes I know paragons in Ilshenar and ML exist and about Virtue artifacts but none of them come close to peerless and Doom.

 

[galefan2004]

Or go to the invasion, get a shadow shield - and spam 'Selling Obsidian Shield 250k' at WBB and spend money onthe armor.

The vanguards are completely soloable by a trained cu and a tamer with decent SDI as well. I've gotten so many shields and swords since I started jumping around soloing vanguards that its not even funny.

 

[galefan2004]

A) The pricing is a slam dunk drive away for the New to UO OR Here is my Credit Card Make Me Uber.

B) Sorry but no matter how wonderful you are as a PC supplier, the overwhelming (read that as greater than 90%) of your PC suppliers are a restock once every 3 months kind of player.

What is worthy of note here is that it depends completely on the shard. Theo plays on Great Lakes (judging from the handle) and Great Lakes has a LONG history of GREAT vendor shops that are actually stocked weekly. It is much easier to find good items on GL then it seems to be on LS for example and the prices are normally pretty decenty on GL as compared to LS. LS vendors in my experience have held items for 10x their value for months complaining that no one is willing to buy anything because they aren't willing to pay the prices that the vendors want. Also, in my experiences as a newer player when I played GL, every single one of those vendor shops were owned by people that would gladly give a newbie a suit if they came and asked them for it.

 

[galefan2004]

You can use the ... interesting manipulative phrase Every thing Handed to you on a Silver Platter" all you want. I would like to inform you that of course it is totaly subjective to the user of the phrases definition of Easy. That has zero relevance to how others will view it. So understand this I just look dumb founded at your using such a psycho manipulative phrase when one should be trying to do what is best for the game, rather than what is good for .....

Lets be honest and say that 90% of the high end bod fanatic crafters are the ones still using certain programs they would get banned for using if the gms investigated them.

Lets also say that truthfully...BOD RUNNING IS EASY. You have zero risk, you never leave the guard zone, you sit there all day just cranking out the same old same old in most cases using a program to do it.

If you want to start talking about how hard something should be then start by leaving the guard zone and actually going out and hunting in this game. It is utter crap that the stuff dropped from peerless, dark father, and even champions doesn't come close to the stuff crafted by runic hammers and runic kits. There is a huge issue when you can never leave guard zones and click buttons all day and get better items then if you went out and actually hunted for items. That is the true issue with the "difficulty" of the BOD system.

 

[galefan2004]

My Dexxor's suit has 1 item made from a runic kit...his sleeves. Everything else is an artifact of some type.

The issue with having almost all items in a suit be artifacts of some sort has always been resists. You can have a godly mod suit out of all artifacts but normally your resists suffer greatly for doing so.

Your argument seems to be based on giving anyone access to high-end crafting items at little or no cost. You can say that over and over again and very few players will agree with you. As far as I'm concerned the flow/availability of high-end runics is just about where it should be. They should be very rare, but not impossible to buy or receive if a player tries hard enough.

Funny that you read it that way because his/her argument was that these items should be readily available in the game not that they should be free or even unexpensive just that they should be possible to purchase or obtain at all times. I've had this same logic (if its not rare its not pricey) used a million times but it simply isn't true because systems that are designed to throw items at people (Doom with guaranteed artifacts and the Virtue artifact system) still have some very pricey items.

The problem I'm having right now is getting the ingots to fill them my BODs. My favorite locations for colored ore no longer exist, and I hate spending countless hours mining (I can handle countless hours filling BODs, but I've never enjoyed mining...go figure).

Well in order to try to stop scripters they screwed over players. Go figure. The thing is that scripters are still scripting because they made the price of iron ingots become greater than what the price of valorite used to be and scripters really don't need to bother to get colored ingots when they can get iron and still make a decent profit.

 

[Setnaffa]

Theo, Thanks for watching my back. I hadn't read this thread for awhile and didn't realize I was being accused of being your evil twin. rolleyes:

Also, you do have my hearty "THANKS!!!" for wearing down the dev's until they fixed those bugs. That took at least 2 years, but they did end up fixing most of them.

 

[galefan2004]

Peerless - Get a crimmy? RNG
Champs - Get a 120? RNG
Loot - Get a 3/1 jewel? RNG
Doom - Get an arty? RNG + help from point system
Bods - Get a good bod? RNG

One of those things is not like the other. BODs are easily scriptable and take no work to actually do. To do a peerless you have to get keys and down a monster but yet you have a chance at a decent item and the rest of the stuff doesn't live up to craftable items. Champ spawns get raided and you still have to kill the spawn then the champion in order to get a chance at those scrolls. You have to kill countless monsters to get decent loot and there is a good chance they might end up killing you as well. You have to get 1000 bones then a skull before even starting to run in circles killing the same monsters over and over that might manage to kill you first.

No for BODS...you either run a script or you sit in guard zones pressing the same buttons over and over. There is no risk...there is only reward. There is no work outside of pressing buttons. The fact that runic crafted items are best items in this game an no suit is complete without them (even full artfiact suits because of BORKED resists) is rediculous. Items that come from the hardest monsters in the game should make crafted items look like junk even if they come from a valorite or barbed runic. The fact that this is not the way UO works although it is how every other game in the MMORPG genre works definately sets UO aside from other games but I don't believe that is a good thing.

 

[Amber Moon]

No for BODS...you either run a script or you sit in guard zones pressing the same buttons over and over. There is no risk...there is only reward. There is no work outside of pressing buttons. The fact that runic crafted items are best items in this game an no suit is complete without them (even full artfiact suits because of BORKED resists) is rediculous. Items that come from the hardest monsters in the game should make crafted items look like junk even if they come from a valorite crafted item. The fact that this is not the way UO works although it is how every other game in the MMORPG genre works definately sets UO aside from other games but I don't believe that is a good thing.

I don't agree with parts of this, but I am not going to parse it out sentence by sentence as some might do.

It is kind of the point of crafting to have non-combat playstyles supported by the game. UO was the first, and perhaps one of the last, that really allowed the isolation of crafting from combat with no interdependence or content gating. I would suggest that some players stay with the game for that very reason.

As to risk vs. reward; It is always a difficult balance but all risk or effort in these games can be reduced to a factor of time. Time spend for a reward needs to be the balance point, not combat as a preferred playstyle.

 

[galefan2004]

I don't agree with parts of this, but I am not going to parse it out sentence by sentence as some might do.

It is kind of the point of crafting to have non-combat playstyles supported by the game. UO was the first, and perhaps one of the last, that really allowed the isolation of crafting from combat with no interdependence or content gating. I would suggest that some players stay with the game for that very reason.

As to risk vs. reward; It is always a difficult balance but all risk or effort in these games can be reduced to a factor of time. Time spend for a reward needs to be the balance point, not combat as a preferred playstyle.

UO does not and never did isolate crafting from combat. Special ingredients intertwine the two and before they were introduced mining and lumberjacking intertwined the two because back in the day you risked getting pked everytiime you left the guard zones to mine or lumberjack and you still do if you mine in Felucca.

While I love crafting, I think more people have left the game then stayed with it over the current crafting dominate system. I am not saying that crafting should not be able to make some very good items, but those items should also be replacable with items that come from monsters that actually provide a challenge.

No time does absolutely nothing but upset players. Having an item take to much time to get is a huge problem for many games. Look at the fact that WoW can take years to get the item you want and examine how many people that aren't impressed with that time system for example. This game should be about playing the game and sitting in guard zones talking to fellow people that sit in guard zones is not playing the game. If that is really what you are into there are many many free chat programs that do the exact same thing for you.

 

[Amber Moon]

This game should be about playing the game and sitting in guard zones talking to fellow people that sit in guard zones is not playing the game. If that is really what you are into there are many many free chat programs that do the exact same thing for you.

This is a playstyle bias. For some, sitting at the bank and chatting is very much playing the game and their dollars are no less green then yours. If you drive them out, the game is smaller and less viable for everyone.

And please don't assume it is my playstyle. When discussing development issues it is most useful to try to rise above personal preference .

I am also not suggesting that things are well balanced now. As I said, it is difficult to balance, partially because of playstyle biases.

I am always happy to hear opinions on why people leave the game. But please realize that my opinion and yours are just anecdotal based upon our own observations, and hopefully the developers use some actual time at activities metrics when making decisions.

 

[Coppelia]

I just want to point out that puzzle based crafting is not the end all, be all solution either. Both EQ2 and ATITD use puzzle and/or timed response type mini-games in their crafting.

These, while fun for a bit, become viewed as just another type of timer and annoyance that limits their productive to a lot of the players. When repetitively practiced, as is often required to achieve a significant reward, they are mastered and become little different then just clicking away on one button as we do now, albeit with a bit more attention required.

I have to agree that I don't believe it will shift the balance toward casual players and away from scripters.

Trading and community based solutions may be better solutions. In game tools which facilitate the easy of trading could aid this. Such as a shard wide auction system dedicated to BODs.

I must say I don't know EQ2 and ATITD crafting mini-games, but I admit they certainly can become repetitive and annoying once mastered. I don't know if that because they're too easy or if w/e the difficult is, it will become boring. But if it's boring like farming the same mob again and again is boring, it's still better than having nothing but clicks in a menu, isn't it?

For a better trading system I don't know... wouldn't it be always the same BODs players are looking for and of course have almost the price of the runic itself? Wouldn't it help more botters than real players?

 

[Amber Moon]

I must say I don't know EQ2 and ATITD crafting mini-games, but I admit they certainly can become repetitive and annoying once mastered. I don't know if that because they're too easy or if w/e the difficult is, it will become boring. But if it's boring like farming the same mob again and again is boring, it's still better than having nothing but clicks in a menu, isn't t?

Rather then a direct answer of my opinion, I'll just give an example for general interest.

In ATITD, charcoal hearths that convert wood to charcoal are probably the most obvious example. They have a difficultly setting that effects how easy it is to control and how likely you are to fail and lose a batch of valuable wood. The setting also effects the time to complete a batch, easy mode taking significantly longer.

They do take a bit of practice. Some folks can run multiples on the highest settings and others never master even a single batch. The 'I can run eight on hgih!" becomes a bragging right for some.

Also of note is that scripting is legal in ATITD as long as attended. And code was added to detect repeated actions and rings (volunteer) GM alarm bells and they do come check often enough to keep most players honest.

It is my observation that most players chose to run their hearths with scripts, making them effectively timer based, although some are able to make an effective business out of wood conversion due to their skill.

So from a development standpoint, the question becomes how much development time is required to develop a system that will ultimately be used or enjoyed by a minority of players.

I don't have the answer. That is why the developers get paid for what they do and I don't get paid to speculate about it.

 

[Killian]

This is a playstyle bias. For some, sitting at the bank and chatting is very much playing the game and their dollars are no less green then yours. If you drive them out, the game is smaller and less viable for everyone.

I agree with this 100%, I have no problems saying that at least half my time in UO is just sitting infront of Brit bank and watching for funnies... or even just randomly blurting out things to just get some people going (in a funny way)

I will say though and this has taken this thread off topic here, but I mainly do this because theres no point for casual hunting no more.

As far as runics, I've given my 2 cents on this.. and the crafting system.. needs some work, and I don't mean "lets make it even Harder to get good stuff, or make the player have to spend YEARS to get something"... I mean, make it suited more for Average game players, not the hardcore powergamers. I have no interest in spending counltess hours in a game to "Grind" a certain task over and over.. if I did.. I would go play WoW(in which I have played for a year total, and have quit it 2 times), as that's excatly what that game is allll about... Make this game have some depth, in crafting, in hunting, in everything, that lets people casually play all area's of the game and be rewarded. Runics and BOD's were( and this is my own opinion) a horrible addition.. atleast the way they were implemented in to UO. BOD's lead to players just solely making accounts full of characters to do BOD's..

If BOD's were to stay, make it logical, have your character get bod's based on skill. get rid of the small bod's that are needed to fill the large ones, and make it all just one big BOD, I don't care if they up the amount you need to make to fill the bod's ( to a once again a logical amount) just have this system work for all players, not just the certain group that are actually willing to make the "28 bod runners" (yes, Bod's were supposed to spark a crafting community aspect, BUT, in all respects, when a person makes more than 5 bod runners, it's safe to say that people will play this game as a solo game in some area's and use other area's to cummunicate and socialize in game)

and really.. who cares if the things are easy to get and what ever.. its a game.. and everybody should be able to enjoy it.. even casual players. If it's to easy.. GOOD.. go try to play another aspect of the game.

Another thought.. what if we were really happy to get a good piece of armor.. and not only settle for the ultimate best. What if items actually had a life time in uo, and actually broke. so no matter what, we would be required at points to replace stuff we wore and go on the adventure to replace it. Runics are a ify topic to me, mainly because I love to casually play all aspects of UO, and not only play one area my entire time in UO to even touch the areas of "3l33t Ub3r" gear

 

[Connor_Graham]

RTLFC

It is not required to have multiple accounts filled with Bod runners in order to obtain the high end rewards. Up until about a month ago I've only had 1 Smith on my account collecting Bods. I recently added 1 point of Smithing to my other crafter in order to collect a few more. Since the recent change to Bods, with my 1 Legendary Smith, I've collected at least 1 large Exc. 20 Plate Bod for every colored ore we have, and even have 2 or more of several of them. I've also collected at least 2 of each of the smalls required to fill each of these larges, and in a few cases have 3, 4 or even 5 of the smalls required. I spend maybe 4 or 5 hours a week filling the Bods I've collected for the week, and this pretty much covers all of the Bod filling I do. The rest of my game time is spent doing other things.

So, regardless of what certain elitists might think, they don't have a corner on the Bod market simply because they fill more 10 Exc Kryss Bods than someone with much fewer characters actually collecting the Bods, nor do they know more than anyone else that spends time filling Bods. There is no title of "Sultan of Smithing" if you have more than 1 or 2 characters collecting and filling Bods, and having multiple accounts certainly doesn't mean that they know more than someone that's done the same research, or uses the same websites that they do. All it means is they spend more money on accounts and more time filling junk Bods. It's not like Bods have changed their rewards recently, and it doesn't take Albert Einstein to figure out the Bod % chance of obtaining colored vs iron or weapon vs armor. When the recent change was made to Bods, it was pretty much figured out in a day or 2 what those %'s were.

 

[DuHast]

ok didnt read whole thing ,
tweak the runics alil better and
i think they need make more craftable items with mods that make them actaully worth maken .Make tinker/mining worth haven on ur smith and have some of the ingreds be alloys of other metals.

and while they improved ur chances of gettin higher bods i have a bowcrafter and i burned nearly 2 million boards and got 2 heartwood kits and a doctors bill for my wrist , which brings me to this they need add a fill control to bods and have it auto make items needed and fill them .

 

[Theo_GL]

ok didnt read whole thing ,
tweak the runics alil better and
i think they need make more craftable items with mods that make them actaully worth maken .Make tinker/mining worth haven on ur smith and have some of the ingreds be alloys of other metals.

and while they improved ur chances of gettin higher bods i have a bowcrafter and i burned nearly 2 million boards and got 2 heartwood kits and a doctors bill for my wrist , which brings me to this they need add a fill control to bods and have it auto make items needed and fill them .

I seriously doubt you burned 2mil boards by hand and didn't use a script.

Thats 28,571 quests if you did the normal bow one (70 boards per quest).

A rate of 1 quest per minute thats 476 hours. STRAIGHT.

I'm calling FALSE here.

 

[DuHast]

i didnt say i did it all at once nor did i say i did it all since last pub(since there was no changes to fletcher quest mentioned) , it was over a few months when ever i had nothing better to do . and call it wht u will i know when istarted doin the quest i had over 2 million board and now i have about 200k .

 

[DuHast]

the doctor was a joke so i guess that part is false

 

[Landicine]

I burned through 30k scrolls to make 3k spellbooks to find one for an RP reason and turned the rejects in to the Library collection for 30k whole points which buys me nothing. It took a bit of time, and even with UO assist making it easier, I still had to constantly fill my pack with scrolls and go through the spellbooks afterward. A million is a lot more work, I would suspect that the hard part is resource collection and use. I would suspect the resource collection would take about 500 hours for me. However, 500 hour is only 100 days (3.33 months) at 5 hours a night. I can't imagine ever being that devoted to one aspect of UO.

I agree with Connor. Since you can turn in BODs to get more BODs right away now, I've actually found people who buy cloth small BODs (and sometimes exceptional metal) for about 100-200 gold each. I run out pretty quickly.

I rarely do BODs despite the rewards. I often forget to get BODs. I do have several crafters on my accounts (2 smiths, 3 tailors, 2 tinkers, 1 carpenter, 1 bowyer, 1 chef, 1 scribe, 1 alchemist, 1 poisoner, 1 cartographer). Because I like the flexibility on my utility account of soulstoning craft skills on to special named characters for RP or event reasons (what is a town festival without its own fancy shirt?), I'm reworking cooking and inscription. For me, crafting is a fun way to putter about my house and yard and get a nice item from time to time.

I still think the risk vs reward paradigm is overused. I can kill ogrelords all day without any real risk, but I don't because it gets rather dull. I can mine in Felucca for double resources without an actual doubling of risk. I think a boredom vs reward paradigm actually happens more in game sadly. Doing peerless may be an adrenaline rush, but I don't think it is the most efficient way to make money. People tend to factor in less tangible rewards into their thinking (like freedom from boredom and the adrenaline rush). Do many people make a real profit from taking part in PvP? How many people have gone to events like Magincia and Moonglow rift and spent a ton of money more on insurance to get items that aren't terribly valuable? How many people don't break the rules despite the very low punishment rate and very high reward?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I assure you that Setnaffa and I are two different people....

Have a little respect.

I'm not going to appologize for having an issue with someone that does very little crafting comming in here and shooting their mouth off about what should be changed. The scary thing is that dev's listening to this banter from the uninformed have made shortsighted mistakes in the past that took years to get corrected. I don't want to go through it again.

Prove you are NOT the same.

You say the identical things seek the identical goals of chasing anyone that has a different opinion form you away as best you can by what ever means you can AND yes YOU did say that Runics WERE NOT RELEVANT, made NO difference to the game, WERE NOT taken into consideration by the Dev's, that the 99% (allways 99% with you isnt it) of the players play with NPC dropped items.

As for communicating with the Dev's. Are you the one they speak of saying "It is always the same, Are we there yet? Are we there yet? You love them better than you do me cry cry cry".

Based on YOUR self proclamation of greatness YOU are the sole reason that Crafting is in the trouble that it is in.

You can bet the farm on people that want others to LEAVE the game as being the single greatest obstacle to the games growth.

You give NO one respect. Your replies totally indicate that you are nothing more than a person out to have their way at any and all cost.

How totally dumb is it to say that YOU do have a clue about howthe game is played by everyone (your 99% bs)? You on the one hand state you are a primary 99% crafter. You think that playing all the other class's / styeles in the remaining 1% gives you any basis for knowledge? Like your total clueless reply that GGS is working perfectly fone for Inscribe and other skills when it is obviously broke? You mean that kind of having a clue?

Your (and your sock puppets) are just one, mean spirited person, trying to FORCE your play style on everyone with the Goal being that everyone must worship you.

YOU are the problem, YOU are just some spoiled person thinking they can dictate how UO is played, who plays UO and when. The show is over and YOU , if YOU are to be believed and I can see no reason why you have any merit other than as a technician that can answer simple questions, should be believed, are the cause of these problems, with your incessant whinning about how YOU the one and only want the game to be played.

Get a clue, get over yourself, come to the awareness that the game is bigger than you and needs to be suitable for everyone.

Understand a fundamental difference between us, I am confident enough in myself to say "I do not know and need help" You are so insecure that you need to say "Leave the game, because you don't think like me".

And for the record, I was on Great Lakes from day one of UO untill month 89 or so after Trammel was released. I set up several Vendors, mostly spells and bottles.

 

[Setnaffa]

Prove you are NOT the same.

Are you serious? Are you new to the boards or something? Theo and I have had very public dissagreements in the past along with our attempts to get bugs fixed by the devs.....If you had spent anytime in the Tailor or Smith forums on the old boards you'd know better than to demand something as ridiculous as "Prove you are NOT the same".

I had stopped posting in this thread because I had already stated my opinion and didn't feel the need to say anymore. But attacking me won't make you any more right or wrong, but it will get a defensive response from me.

You need to stop with the personal attacks (please read Stratic's ROC). I've stated my opinion from years of actually playing crafters and doing BOD runs. What is your experience in the game? How long have you played UO? Been a Crafter? Done the BOD lottery? If you have any constructive thoughts on the subject, state them, but don't accuse someone else of trying to sabotage or suppress the ideas of others.

Show a little maturity and stick to your opinions. Stay on topic. When you start to lose an argument, either back off or expand on your ideas. Don't attack others and make wild unsubstantiated accusations. You'll just make yourself appear to be a fool.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Are you serious? Are you new to the boards or something? Theo and I have had very public dissagreements in the past along with our attempts to get bugs fixed by the devs........ TRASH

Shall I log on my other account and have an argument with myself?

YOU prove nothing, YOUR actions prove everything.
YOU say Leave UO if you dont agree with me.
YOU say how GREAT you are and HOW wonderful you are and DEMAND RESPECT.
YOU say anyone that doesn't think like you is clueless, stupid, a moron etc.

NO, your actions say all that needs to be said. Some insecure spoiled person that DEMANDS RESPECT and that everyone recognize their greatness. Because YOU have zero to say other than to tell people to LEAVE UO, HOW YOUR Wonderful and how everyone should worship you and you DEMAND respect while giveing none to anyone that opposes you.

And if YOU stay of THIS THREAD then maybe, just maybe Crafting can get back on track after YOUR serious screwing it over. Or so your bragging, self proclamation of Greatness would have us believe

You are big on telling people how to think, what to say, how to play, how to be and LEAVING UO. You are ZERO on listening, understanding, participating, explain why something is good or bad. All you do is attack people no matter how subtly. YOU dont address any concerns any one has. YOU simply tell them to LEAVE UO.

YOU are big on DEMANDING respect while giving ZERO respect to any one that differs with you
YOU are big on proclaiming how Great, wondrous, Awesome you are while demeaning any that doesn't agree with you.

 

[Setnaffa]

YOU prove nothing, YOUR actions prove everything.

My Actions? What actions? All I've done is stated my opinions and a few of my game strategies. Dude, you are so delusional.

YOU say Leave UO if you dont agree with me.

I haven't told anyone to leave UO. What the heck are you talking about??

YOU say how GREAT you are and HOW wonderful you are and DEMAND RESPECT.
YOU say anyone that doesn't think like you is clueless, stupid, a moron etc.

Where are you getting this stuff from? Where did I ever say such a thing?

NO, your actions say all that needs to be said. Some insecure spoiled person that DEMANDS RESPECT and that everyone recognize their greatness. Because YOU have zero to say other than to tell people to LEAVE UO, HOW YOUR Wonderful and how everyone should worship you and you DEMAND respect while giveing none to anyone that opposes you.

Seriously, you've totally lost it. You are showing signs of Paranoid Schizophrenia. You need to seek some psychological help.

And if YOU stay of THIS THREAD then maybe, just maybe Crafting can get back on track after YOUR serious screwing it over. Or so your bragging, self proclamation of Greatness would have us believe.

OK Now I am completely baffled. Am I a dev now? Is that how I am supposed to be "serious screwing it over"? Dude, I just play the game like everyone else.

This is almost humorous....on the verge of being entertaining.

If you are referring to the bugs Theo and I reported (probably many others reported them as well, but Theo kept bugging the Dev's until they responded), here they are:
1) Not enough Val BODs Spawn
2) Runic Sewing Kits occassionally give fewer properties than they are supposed to give; possibly due to Mage Armor
3) Runic Smithing Hammers occassionally give fewer properties than they are supposed to give; possibly due to DI.
4) The only footwear LBOD that spawns is regular Leather
5) Too many smith LBODs spawn in comparison to SBODs. This one turned out to be related to number 6, which is....
6) No Iron Armor LBODs spawn at GM or higher.

How reporting these bugs managed to screw anything up is beyond me...

You are big on telling people how to think, what to say, how to play, how to be and LEAVING UO. You are ZERO on listening, understanding, participating, explain why something is good or bad. All you do is attack people no matter how subtly. YOU dont address any concerns any one has. YOU simply tell them to LEAVE UO.

YOU are big on DEMANDING respect while giving ZERO respect to any one that differs with you
YOU are big on proclaiming how Great, wondrous, Awesome you are while demeaning any that doesn't agree with you.

Honestly, I really don't care what you think. But thanks for the good laugh.

You take care. I hope you get the help you need.

 

[Theo_GL]

Setnaffa - Some advice.

Don't argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level of incompetence and then beat you with experience.

I'm done with this thread as well. I think we all know who understands crafting and who is the 8 year noob.

Hope you had a nice Memorial day - we finally had nice enough weather to get out and get some golf in. No time for even bod runs today. ;-)

Maybe tonight I burn through some of these spined kits. My new process is to use the spined kits to fill my spined -barb ex leather larges. You never know when you'll fire out a 140 luck 20% lrc piece or some good horned/barbed stuff.

I did turn out a 72 resist leather item with a spined kit the other day. Woot.

Oh, and I did run into returning player that got hacked 2 years ago and set her up with new armor. Its always fun pulling suits together. Excel for the win!