Hoping to get Order/Chaos back with Faction changes.

[anavelgato]

I think everyone wanna have such thing happens....making faction alive again and the dev team sounds like working on this too...

I have got a few ideas to make it alive and more peoples are interested to join faction.
First of all we have to make the FEL side more faction related which is not entirely about town control. But we can balance out in Tram also.
Changes can be done as follow:
1/ I believe that many peoples are suffering from this situation " Why am I joining faction when I don't have to worry about skill lost and I can keep killing ppls?" . To solve this, I strongly recommend the changes can be done like this:
All characters that are NOT in faction would automatically having a 12% skill lost (not the base skill) in FEL facet.
So whoever wanna turn red or having any pvp act in fel, they have to join a faction.
This also wouldn't affect Hunting in Fel with non-faction players too much with 12% loss.

Conclusion : 12% surface skill penalty for non-faction characters.

2/ To balance out the faction vs non faction players in TRAM side, working on faction artis is not enough.
Faction players in TRAM side would receive a bonus of 20% damage increase cap(a total of 120%) , Mana Regen bonus cap for 2 (a total of MR 20) and 1000 luck.
BUT!! Their corspe would turn Criminal once they're dead and LOOT-ABLE by ANYONE.

Conclusion :
A/ Bonus of 20% DI cap, MR cap increase by 2, +1000luck
B/Corspe turns criminal and loot-able by anyone.

In this way, we can balance out the advantage vs disadvantage between both facet for both faction/non-faction players.

3/ CHAOS/ORDER system can come back to the game with adding CHAOS/ORDER to your faction guild would be able to NULLIFY all bonus & criminal death penalty of Faction characters in Tram.

Conclusion : Joining Chaos/Order can NULLIFY all faction tram bonus & penalty.

Guys lets share your thoughts together to make this game PVP be more reasonable for faction system. This is very sick to see non-faction pvpers in Fel has total advantage over the real fighting guys.

Hope we can dig deep and make a better balance together.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

ive only been playing some 5-1/2 years so i wasnt around for the old chaos/order. however i have seen some wax poetic on these boards about what a good system it was. i would think the dev's would be wise to take what was most desirable out of that system and possibly tweak it with some uptodate things, possibly some of what your suggesting.

i would be nice if this thread could contain a cognitive discussion. in the producers letter wasnt chaos/order in the brainstorming stage???
if so might be good to have some input from the player base on this issue.

one things for certain and that is factions in its current form are a horror show.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

These proposals have no obvious purpose save to penalize (and thus alienate) those paying UO customers who don't want to join whatever it is they replace Factions with, if indeed they get rid of or alter Factions at all.

They also reflect a grave misunderstanding of the old Order/Chaos system, which was cross-facet.

-Galen's player

 

[SlobberKnocker]

galen,

fully understand your point. i didnt want to go down that road as the op menitons benefits and penalties that effect the tram/fel ruleset which i think is a quick way to get this thread derailed. i chose to over look that side of it and rather focus on a cognitive discussion on how to incorporate the original order/chaos with something updated that would achieve the goal of introducing a desirable playstyle that brings more attention and enjoyment to this fine game.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

galen,

fully understand your point. i didnt want to go down that road as the op menitons benefits and penalties that effect the tram/fel ruleset which i think is a quick way to get this thread derailed. i chose to over look that side of it and rather focus on a cognitive discussion on how to incorporate the original order/chaos with something updated that would achieve the goal of introducing a desirable playstyle that brings more attention and enjoyment to this fine game.

Huh?

Are you running for office? Do you write obscure tax laws for a living rl?

Your entire input in this thread has been nothing but a literary slap on the back.

Order/Chaos was fantastic and needs little to no updating.
Join one side or the other and you are orange EVERYWHERE.

No nonsense like piles of pixel crack gear and stat loss. That was well thought out lol. Promote logging out of the game for 20 minutes, nice!

I doubt it will ever be done right though as I have already seen people vote against it for no other reason then they hate anything pvp related, no matter that it personally wouldnt affect them in the least. Some nut jobs are already whining that it will harm events lol. Like they aren't already the most abused piles of lag ever.

 

[Picus at the office]

I, for one, thought that a 5 min stat loss would be the only addition to O/C that was needed. I loved the old system and loved factions pre-nerf and found that stat loss was the big draw. The current system however where dying 20 mins later and still getting nailed with stat is screwed and has driven me to having only 2 guys in from 10+. There is something to be said for stat loss and a true reason to win and not lose a fight. Cross facet fighting would make my day, oh my.

 

[Lady Michelle]

I think everyone wanna have such thing happens....making faction alive again and the dev team sounds like working on this too...

I have got a few ideas to make it alive and more peoples are interested to join faction.
First of all we have to make the FEL side more faction related which is not entirely about town control. But we can balance out in Tram also.
Changes can be done as follow:
1/ I believe that many peoples are suffering from this situation " Why am I joining faction when I don't have to worry about skill lost and I can keep killing ppls?" . To solve this, I strongly recommend the changes can be done like this:
All characters that are NOT in faction would automatically having a 12% skill lost (not the base skill) in FEL facet.
So whoever wanna turn red or having any pvp act in fel, they have to join a faction.
This also wouldn't affect Hunting in Fel with non-faction players too much with 12% loss.

Conclusion : 12% surface skill penalty for non-faction characters.

2/ To balance out the faction vs non faction players in TRAM side, working on faction artis is not enough.
Faction players in TRAM side would receive a bonus of 20% damage increase cap(a total of 120%) , Mana Regen bonus cap for 2 (a total of MR 20) and 1000 luck.
BUT!! Their corspe would turn Criminal once they're dead and LOOT-ABLE by ANYONE.

Conclusion :
A/ Bonus of 20% DI cap, MR cap increase by 2, +1000luck
B/Corspe turns criminal and loot-able by anyone.

In this way, we can balance out the advantage vs disadvantage between both facet for both faction/non-faction players.

3/ CHAOS/ORDER system can come back to the game with adding CHAOS/ORDER to your faction guild would be able to NULLIFY all bonus & criminal death penalty of Faction characters in Tram.

Conclusion : Joining Chaos/Order can NULLIFY all faction tram bonus & penalty.

Guys lets share your thoughts together to make this game PVP be more reasonable for faction system. This is very sick to see non-faction pvpers in Fel has total advantage over the real fighting guys.

Hope we can dig deep and make a better balance together.

I'll share my thoughts to me this is another way to force players into being led to slaughtered by forcing them into pvp situations. Seriously NON faction players like crafters , fishers, etc should be forced into factions so they don't get 12% surface skill penalty for non-faction. characters. Then join chaos/ order to get penalties nullified on both facets. Something like this will having NON Faction NON pvper players quitting if something like this went in the game.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I think the original poster's ideas are pretty much a non-starter for most players. I sure as Hell hope they are for the team.

It's important to remember that Order/Chaos did have items associated: The Shields. Back then all shields were not created equal, and the Order and Chaos shields were considered top of the line.

It is difficult to see how Faction-style skill loss has a place in Order/Chaos. It is present in Factions because Factions has actual battles for actual strategic purposes. If they keep the new Order/Chaos like the old one, it primarily was constant street-fighting. No other similar system has something like Faction skill loss.

On a semi-related note, there will need to be fiction/lore for Order/Chaos that makes it clear the fighting has no sanction from King Blackthorn, that it's just random dudes getting into fights, and difficult for the town guards to sort out, let alone stop. Anything else will kind of make King Blackthorn look like an ass.

-Galen's player

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I'll share my thoughts to me this is another way to force players into being led to slaughtered by forcing them into pvp situations. Seriously NON faction players like crafters , fishers, etc should be forced into factions so they don't get 12% surface skill penalty for non-faction. characters. Then join chaos/ order to get penalties nullified on both facets. Something like this will having NON Faction NON pvper players quitting if something like this went in the game.

I can assure you this specific situation will be avoided, for the reason you stated. The OP is like many pvpers, anxious for more participants in his favored playstyle. Unfortunately he seems to have made the mistake of not taking into account other peoples playstyles. Order/Chaos can be done correctly, hopefully with some updates to make it "new" again. Picus and GalenKnighthawke made good points, and while SlobberKnocker tried to steer this back to a more amiable scenario I fear that this thread may already be lost by having not started with taking other peoples feelings into consideration.

 

[cazador]

Order/chaos is a pvp system not a bank sitting system so to say your not taking crafters/fisherman into consideration is a bit of an understatement of course nobody is taking those specific "playstyles" into consideration..if people want a trammel King of the abyss faction then so be it..but I'm not sure this is it or should be for that matter

 

[Mook Chessy]

Goldberg said...Orange everywhere!

Simple and fun!

No need to muddy the waters, either you join or pass.

Can it really be any easier?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Order/chaos is a pvp system not a bank sitting system so to say your not taking crafters/fisherman into consideration is a bit of an understatement of course nobody is taking those specific "playstyles" into consideration..if people want a trammel King of the abyss faction then so be it..but I'm not sure this is it or should be for that matter

Your equation of everything other than PvP with "bank sitting" is very telling.

I should suspect that the reason someone else mentioned non-PvP templates is because they have a role in Factions (traps; blessed Faction runics; as place-holders for the holding of Faction Office; etc.), and because the original poster mentioned having penalties for not being in Order/Chaos and bonuses for being in. While nothing he proposed that I noticed obviously impacted non-PvP types, it is a rather slippery slope. (For example, how long before it's asked that Order/Chaos crafters get crafting bonuses, to compensate for the lack of Faction Artifacts.)

-Galen's player

 

[Lady Michelle]

Order/chaos is a pvp system not a bank sitting system so to say your not taking crafters/fisherman into consideration is a bit of an understatement of course nobody is taking those specific "playstyles" into consideration..if people want a trammel King of the abyss faction then so be it..but I'm not sure this is it or should be for that matter

Of course the Op is not taking them into consideration when he talks about a NON faction players having penalties.
I have nothing against a chaos/order faction system for the players who want it. I am NOT for a chaos / order faction system that will force NON faction players to join.
Fishers, and miners do fish and mine in fel, not all players bank sit. so you know

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Of course the Op is not taking them into consideration when he talks about a NON faction players having penalties.
I have nothing against a chaos/order faction system for the players who want it. I am NOT for a chaos / order faction system that will force NON faction players to join.
Fishers, and miners do fish and mine in fel, not all players bank sit. so you know

That was part of the point I was trying to make. The gist of the post was; in order to have a successful discussion on a new Chaos/Order system, the thread would need to be started with careful wording and consideration. What I suspect is happening is that people are reading the original post and thinking "Non-participant penalties!.. I'll pass" and skipping all other posts.

 

[Lady Michelle]

That was part of the point I was trying to make. The gist of the post was; in order to have a successful discussion on a new Chaos/Order system, the thread would need to be started with careful wording and consideration. What I suspect is happening is that people are reading the original post and thinking "Non-participant penalties!.. I'll pass" and skipping all other posts.

So true. What ever system is added in wont bring trammel players into it or get them into felucca to pvp.
Ways to get trammel players into felucca would be to open it up for trammel players not to be attacked in some areas of felucca NOT including champ spawns, or felucca peerless these should stay pvp areas for everyone maybe the faction towns also stay pvp areas also in felucca. Trammel players will be able to do normal hunting, mining, fishing etc but players thieves will be able to steal non insured items from them. If they pop a champ or work it they become attackable same with peerless.
and
players who want to pvp
the chaos/ order faction system should work where they will be able to pvp even reds in any fauct felucca tram ish temur, and tokonu. Reds should be able to cross over to each fauct also even if they are not in the chaos/ order faction system.
My point is blues get a free pass into felucca, While reds will be a free pass thru felucca tram ish temur, and tokonu.
NON faction chaos/ order faction system reds will also be able to do the champs and peerless with out being attacked unless its in felucca.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

On a semi-related note, there will need to be fiction/lore for Order/Chaos that makes it clear the fighting has no sanction from King Blackthorn, that it's just random dudes getting into fights, and difficult for the town guards to sort out, let alone stop. Anything else will kind of make King Blackthorn look like an ass.

-Galen's player

The fiction was just fine when Order/Chaos was around. Why re invent the wheel?

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Of course the Op is not taking them into consideration when he talks about a NON faction players having penalties.
I have nothing against a chaos/order faction system for the players who want it. I am NOT for a chaos / order faction system that will force NON faction players to join.
Fishers, and miners do fish and mine in fel, not all players bank sit. so you know

The %20 skill loss in Fel for non faction players is crap, because of this reason, but with that being said there really is no reason for crafters to be in O/C period end of discussion.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The fiction was just fine when Order/Chaos was around. Why re invent the wheel?

I don't recall any, especially since the two principals in Order/Chaos amicably played chess while their followers slaughtered each other in the streets. Blackthorn was not in open rebellion. If you have a link I'll read it but at the time I remember talking with people about how whatever there was didn't make much sense especially given the Blackthorn/British relationship.

At any rate, the field of things that'd make sense under current conditions is rather narrow.

-Galen's player

 

[Woodsman]

Simple and fun!

No need to muddy the waters, either you join or pass.

Can it really be any easier?

That's exactly what it needs to be - simple. It needs to be kept as simple as can be for players and developers. Factions had some interesting things about it, but it tried to provide too much structure to PvP, and once you get a complex system that gets spread out over many publishes, you are dooming it to failure.

 

[Lady Michelle]

The %20 skill loss in Fel for non faction players is crap, because of this reason, but with that being said there really is no reason for crafters to be in O/C period end of discussion.

A player wants to put their crafter or any of their characters in any system faction,O/C, or whatever all power to them it will be their choice to do so. Its about each player and how each player wants to play this game.
Wanting something forced on other players is not good for this game is the point.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I don't recall any, especially since the two principals in Order/Chaos amicably played chess while their followers slaughtered each other in the streets. Blackthorn was not in open rebellion. If you have a link I'll read it but at the time I remember talking with people about how whatever there was didn't make much sense especially given the Blackthorn/British relationship.

At any rate, the field of things that'd make sense under current conditions is rather narrow.

-Galen's player

The story line was simple Order wanted Lord Brit to be king Chaos wanted Blackthron to be king. The sides couldn't agree so they fought anywhere and everywhere.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The story line was simple Order wanted Lord Brit to be king Chaos wanted Blackthron to be king. The sides couldn't agree so they fought anywhere and everywhere.

Blackthorn's followers were a tad thick then; Blackthorn rather obviously accepted Lord British as monarch. And was an ally of his. And accepted the basics of the Virtue system, just thought it was too narrow and non-inclusive. And such a storyline would make even less sense now. No more Lord British and this Blackthorn appears to accept, and take rather seriously, his responsibilities as ruler.

Again we're left with "these are the fanatics," which is what I recall being the storyline the first time around.

-Galen's player