*PvP needs some Attention*

[CovenantX]

#1. Archer have a longer range overall up to 10 tiles and the damage is more stable than the gargyole throwing weapon
#2. Composite bow or any kind of bows could reforge upwards to 50 ssi, thus making it extremely easy to max out the SSI to 60, whereas gargyole max SSI would most likely be only at around 45 to 50.
#3. Gargyole movement disadvantage is that when it shoved 1 person, and you are stump upon another object,person,npc, you will seems to be flying still, making your reaction slowed by little bit if compared to human on horse (whereas the screen won't show as rubberbanding) This will delay the chasing for gargyole overall, unless you could control a gargyole character perfectly ALL of the time which won't be the case.
#4. the special moves for both weapons are actually different.
Cyclone = para + moving shot (this gets more of an advantage in a ganking situation)
Composite bow = armor ignore + moving shot (this gets more of an advantage in terms of damage and killing in solos especially vs mages)

armor ignore nets you 35 damage min. (not counting velocity and lighting) , cyclone never can have 35 base damage unless that newbie is not wearing armor.

#5. Within different range, gargyole are performing different numbers of damage (which actually very dependable on your distance with your target), the perfect tiles aren't so easily to be reached 100% of the time. Thus there are some swings you will not be dealing the appropriate range damage as per composite bow would

#1) Archers have longer range by 1 tile (in most cases) throwing (throwing range is based on strength).
#2) It's not very hard to get 50-60 ssi on a Throwing weapon either. Reforging = 40 SSI, cloak +5 breastplate +10, ring/bracelet extremely easy to reach 60 ssi with throwing, But since all the weapons are 1 second faster than archery, this makes it overpowering, but not only that. you factor in Throwing weapons are one handed as well...
#3) This is more of a player skill thinkg manuevering a gargoyle, this occurs when people (regardless of race) run into walls of stone or energy fields too... so this isn't a gargoyle exclusive issue.

#4) Composite bow is better for solo-killing than a Cyclone, Only if your RNG (hit chance +45 Human/elf vs +50 gargoyle.) likes you more with an archer, than it does on a thrower. (due to weapon speed) keep in mind, BOTH throwing & archery weapons can have Velocity. you simply cannot Imbue Velocity on Throwing Weapons.

#5) the range vs damage done, doesn't have anywhere near as much of an impact on more/less damage done in Pvp. (it's minimal) making it Almost not even noticeable.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Nothing ever changes.

There's always those people who will never admit that their template is OP. Probably the same people who said the WoD/AI archers were fine and that we all just needed to adapt.

Face it, EA has a long standing history of adding in OPed skills/items/pets/etc in order to sell the newest expansion. Then sometime in the next 2-5 years they finally get around to balancing it (usually 6 months before the next expansion is due to come out and screw it all up again!!!)

Throwing is out of whack and so is Mysticism.

 

[CovenantX]

Nothing ever changes.

There's always those people who will never admit that their template is OP. Probably the same people who said the WoD/AI archers were fine and that we all just needed to adapt.

Face it, EA has a long standing history of adding in OPed skills/items/pets/etc in order to sell the newest expansion. Then sometime in the next 2-5 years they finally get around to balancing it (usually 6 months before the next expansion is due to come out and screw it all up again!!!)

Throwing is out of whack and so is Mysticism.

This is exactly what really needs to change though, pvp is (what seems to be) at an all time low (I know it's not just fel/pvp), A lot of people including myself, consider pvp as sort of an "End-Game".

I'd have a field day with someone who'd say a WoD-Archer wasn't OP in its time.... =D.

I understand game-balancing is a hell of a lot easier said than done, That being said, with the improved communication we've been having with the UO-Dev-Team, I figured it would be a good time to post things that should be tweaked/adjusted/changed w/e.

 

[Lord Frodo]

This is exactly what really needs to change though, pvp is (what seems to be) at an all time low (I know it's not just fel/pvp), A lot of people including myself, consider pvp as sort of an "End-Game".

I'd have a field day with someone who'd say a WoD-Archer wasn't OP in its time.... =D.

I understand game-balancing is a hell of a lot easier said than done, That being said, with the improved communication we've been having with the UO-Dev-Team, I figured it would be a good time to post things that should be tweaked/adjusted/changed w/e.

To me game-balancing is the wrong wording used here. "I understand PvP-balancing is a hell of a lot easier said than done" fixed. Please b4 you go off let me explain.
PvP-balancing is very easy to do, they bring out the NERF HAMMER and BAM PvP fixed, but on the whole the GAME is way more out of balance. PvP fixes affect a lot more than just PvP, it carries over to PvM with a lot more harm than good. When they NERF skills for the player (both PvP and PvM side) the MOBS stay the same. If they are going to attempt to balance the player side then they also need to balance the MOB side as well.

You do your testing in a PvP setting and say this or that is over-powered, it needs to be adjusted (NEFRED) and give all your reasons why but you never say how it will affect the PvM side of the house. If something is over-powered why not go the other way and say what others skills can be adjusted UP to balance PvP.

Pub 46 is being talked about in this thread as a bad thing now and why did it come into play to begin with. Just like this thread, people got on here and said this needs to be fixed and what happened, BAM NERF HAMMER time.

Remember the threads about the Greater Dragons and PvP, BAM NERF HAMMER time and when the PvMers said anything about it we were told to adapt and quit whinning.

PLEASE THROW AWAY THE NEFR MAMMER

AND USE THE NEW AND IMPROVED BUFF HAMMER

EITHER BUFF THE PLAYERS OR NEFR THE MOBS AT THE SAME TIME YOU NERF THE PLAYERS.

 

[Tzadkiel]

Kill the illegal third party software. Balance then can come.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Actually, my point is I have played both archer and gargyole and by saying gargyole have the upper hand on killing people or overpowered in killing people is really not all the time accurate.

#1. Archer have a longer range overall up to 10 tiles and the damage is more stable than the gargyole throwing weapon
#2. Composite bow or any kind of bows could reforge upwards to 50 ssi, thus making it extremely easy to max out the SSI to 60, whereas gargyole max SSI would most likely be only at around 45 to 50.
#3. Gargyole movement disadvantage is that when it shoved 1 person, and you are stump upon another object,person,npc, you will seems to be flying still, making your reaction slowed by little bit if compared to human on horse (whereas the screen won't show as rubberbanding) This will delay the chasing for gargyole overall, unless you could control a gargyole character perfectly ALL of the time which won't be the case.
#4. the special moves for both weapons are actually different.
Cyclone = para + moving shot (this gets more of an advantage in a ganking situation)
Composite bow = armor ignore + moving shot (this gets more of an advantage in terms of damage and killing in solos especially vs mages)

armor ignore nets you 35 damage min. (not counting velocity and lighting) , cyclone never can have 35 base damage unless that newbie is not wearing armor.

#5. Within different range, gargyole are performing different numbers of damage (which actually very dependable on your distance with your target), the perfect tiles aren't so easily to be reached 100% of the time. Thus there are some swings you will not be dealing the appropriate range damage as per composite bow would

I have played as both a thrower and an archer as well.
1- both archers are gargoyles have a 10(up to 11 Soul Glaive - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia) tile range. Both have an 8 tile dismount.
2- as myself and others have already stated, the big problem is that the base swing on these throwing weps are lower and with much higher base damage. For armor ignore weps see the comp bow (Composite Bow - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia). Both have a 4 second swing time, but the throwing wepsGlave 18-22) low end is 1 higher than the comps(14-17) top end and the throwing wep has 1 tile longer than anything else in game. Then you start to add in the fact with one handed they don't need balanced as a mod, that they can also get double hit spell and everything else and not even sacrifice damage increase on the wep.
3- Even though it was already mentioned it's player error that causes that. If you're having too much trouble you could also always view your self as something else like a chicken via UOA.
4- No one is saying the special moves are the same IE Glave vs Comp bow. What they are comparing, is the base damage/ speed on the armor ignore wep, and the base damage/speed on the moving shot/dismount.
4 part b- You can use the cyclone all the way through on a kill IE vs a mage, it's so fast with double hit spell and the para is nice, you can use it in place of mortal. A well placed para is a game changer. It's not as though someone has to pick just one weapon. Both the archer and gargoyle are going to carry a wide array of bows/throwing weps in pvp.
4 part c- when people are talking about just under 35 damage hits not counting spells, they are talking about the armor ignore weapon(glave) not the cyclone, so I am not following why you said the cyclone can never have a 35 base damage hit? No one has argued that it can so far.. The glave on the other hand can have damage like that not counting the double hit spell, which is why people complain. Anytime a normal hit on someone with good resist hits as hard as a special that takes mana..something needs to be adjusted a bit.
5- I have yet to encounter a weak hitting gargoyle based on what tile they are standing on. I have never once been like "Wow this player would be doing so much better if he backed up two tiles and stood at his sweet spot". Everytime I see a gargoyle I just watch lots of damage from 1 to 11 tiles.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

To me game-balancing is the wrong wording used here. "I understand PvP-balancing is a hell of a lot easier said than done" fixed. Please b4 you go off let me explain.
PvP-balancing is very easy to do, they bring out the NERF HAMMER and BAM PvP fixed, but on the whole the GAME is way more out of balance. PvP fixes affect a lot more than just PvP, it carries over to PvM with a lot more harm than good. When they NERF skills for the player (both PvP and PvM side) the MOBS stay the same. If they are going to attempt to balance the player side then they also need to balance the MOB side as well.

You do your testing in a PvP setting and say this or that is over-powered, it needs to be adjusted (NEFRED) and give all your reasons why but you never say how it will affect the PvM side of the house. If something is over-powered why not go the other way and say what others skills can be adjusted UP to balance PvP.

Pub 46 is being talked about in this thread as a bad thing now and why did it come into play to begin with. Just like this thread, people got on here and said this needs to be fixed and what happened, BAM NERF HAMMER time.

Remember the threads about the Greater Dragons and PvP, BAM NERF HAMMER time and when the PvMers said anything about it we were told to adapt and quit whinning.

EITHER BUFF THE PLAYERS OR NEFR THE MOBS AT THE SAME TIME YOU NERF THE PLAYERS.

Was the fireball change in pvp that big of a deal in pvm? You don't think 80 damage (if you cursed a player) was a bit too much? That is the same as a circled up word of death years ago..it was changed for a reason, just like crits with a magic short bow that could hit for 80. I don't think the fireball being tweaked ruined pvm. It's not like they nerfed the bite which can happen every 1.25-1.5seconds.

I'm not sure how a combat point change that people have been discussing could ruin pvm. Or stoneform+prot+cleansings winds would ruin it. PvM has been dumbed down so much. I recently made a sampire and was shocked at how easy everything is in the game right now. I knew they we're good in PvM but I run over everything in record time.

What changes in this thread are people not seeing the big picture for? That the soul glave might do a little less damage so a champ/peerless/boss might take an extra 2 minutes? Or would you hate to not have a spell that removes curse, cures, and heals a target all in one that is super potent with low mana cost/casting speed changed?

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Gift of Renewal & Attunement even without stone-form make one near temporarily invulnerable in a 1 v 1 situation. it can wear off, and has quite a cooldown on it. however, a mystic can Purge this, and Gift of Renewal & Attunement still remain on cooldown.

if you can't kill someone while you're in stone-form + protection it's because they run. if they stayed on screen the whole time. they wouldn't have a chance. or no one would die... which is just one problem. unless they are a mystic to purge.

I'm not factoring in Attunement and Gift of Renewal, they require another skill. and they're fine imo. and players typically have Spellweaving (pvp) for Pixies, Essence of Wind & Thunderstorm.

Point being you either play a mystic mage, and are pretty much unkillable if you resort to stoneform protection. regardless of what your other skills are. (this is why it's overpowered)

Poisoning, taking only 100 skill points, easily combined with other skills, gives you much more benefit Offensively AND Defensively than other skills. for an example I'll say, Parry - 0-120 cap, only usable against Melee/ranged weapon attacks, for 120 skill pionts. (no protection from casters Whatsoever, unless its combined with Bushido- making it take potentially 240.0 skill points.)

Does no one think Poisoning has enough offensive power, to where it really needs to have this defensive mechanic as well ?

The only part of poisoning I don't agree with is the Orange petal effect, because it's too much of a game-changer when you play against any template that has poisoning and you don't.
Poison should be hard to cure, and it is more often than not, from a DEXER perspective anyway...

now if you're a non-nox-mage fighting someone with poisoning, people are able to just cast healing spells without bothering with cure, because you simply cannot keep a target poisoned unless you yourself have poisoning as well.

Maybe this isn't working as intended (could only hope, maybe it'll get fixed), but it sure has been quite overpowered since it has been introduced.

I just wanted to touch on what you said. If you are in protection and specifically vs a dexer you can easily kill them in stoneform with protection. Dexers were so easy to kill when I was on my mystic in stoneform w/ prot.

I can't agree more that the only people who would live vs this would be someone fleeing, it's still effective in in protection on a mystic. I think slayer is very wrong how he is coming up with a rating. Mystics are too good in almost any situation. Again I'm not saying they aren't killable, but it is the only template where you have to mirror match it(mystic v mystic) to kill them with ease. No other template has a situation like that.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Was the fireball change in pvp that big of a deal in pvm? You don't think 80 damage (if you cursed a player) was a bit too much? That is the same as a circled up word of death years ago..it was changed for a reason, just like crits with a magic short bow that could hit for 80. I don't think the fireball being tweaked ruined pvm. It's not like they nerfed the bite which can happen every 1.25-1.5seconds.

I'm not sure how a combat point change that people have been discussing could ruin pvm. Or stoneform+prot+cleansings winds would ruin it. PvM has been dumbed down so much. I recently made a sampire and was shocked at how easy everything is in the game right now. I knew they we're good in PvM but I run over everything in record time.

What changes in this thread are people not seeing the big picture for? That the soul glave might do a little less damage so a champ/peerless/boss might take an extra 2 minutes? Or would you hate to not have a spell that removes curse, cures, and heals a target all in one that is super potent with low mana cost/casting speed changed?

So what you are telling the PvMers is to make a sampire and only play that template. If a Mystic is so powerfull then maybe PvPers should just make only Mystics and play that. Sorry but there are a lot of different play styles PvP/PvM. When has UO ever used a small NERF HAMMER? Any balance UO does should include PLAYERS and MOBS.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

No my point is pvm is already a joke as is, you would think that you might want a slight challenge.

You failed to answer my question(s) about how the changes listed would ruin pvm.

You mentioned dragons being changed and I don't think that was game changing at all. 30 damage off a fire breath every 30 seconds does not seem like it is a big deal at all but you brought it up. What other changes that we are discussing for pvp would cripple pvm? You haven't presented a good argument. Please explain.

 

[Lord Frodo]

PvM is only a joke to you. PvP is not the only play style in UO and I have tried my best to stay respectful to your play style and not say things like "PvP is a joke". You want Mystic dumped down so it isn't so over-powered and you have no clue as to the affect to PvM it might have and IMHO you really don't care as long as your play style is taken care of or even how hard UO would do any of the changes you requested. The fact still remains that when UO fixes PvP it bleads over to PvM and play styles are affected. But as long as you get what you want you really could care less and what your replies are just the typical deal with it. I gave 2 examples of fix PvP threads that one fix PvPers now think was the wrong way to go and the GD NERF that affected a lot more than just fire breath. It affected all thier damage. I know I will just hear so it takes you longer to kill something from you, deal with it. Well it may take you and others longer to kill a Mystic or you may have to become a Mystic yourself. You do not want to hear others thoughts just as long as you get what you want.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

The only thing that got changed was the firebreath damage that only goes off every 30 seconds.

You've again avoided explaining how these changes in pvp would ruin pvm.

Please explain what has been changed with dragons besdies firebreath, because that's all that was changed. If you could provide a link that shows how it was nerfed to the ground that would be fantastic.

PvM is a joke to me, because it's so easy. You can solo just about anything in game with ease. The difference between you and me is that I do both, but am a seasoned vet in pvp. I'm sure you would never say pvp is a joke, nothing personal but everything you said shows you are wet behind the ears when you discuss pvp, although I do appreciate the effort to try to contribute.

How would changing a throwing wep(glave) to lose a few base damage break pvm? So you might only hit for 250 instead of 280?
See pvp is different because its players that change their tactics and can abuse flaws in a system. In PvM the creature is going to do
the same thing everytime, they don't adapt, they don't do anything creative. So how would a few less damage destroy pvm?

Everyone knows that things carry over, however your complaint has been noted and I explained how things have changed over the years and how the tactics(specials) for example would be completely different now.

As far as mystics go, it's not just my thought, many have said for quite some time that it needs to be fixed, the idea to tone it down were negated by stoneform which eliminates all ways to get lower the heal. This is not something new, its been complained about for years and have bored people off this game who pvp exclusively since pvm is so simple now a days.

Again just to go over it again since you seemed to missed it when you responded, Please provide examples as many things were brought up I would like to see your point of view, I enjoy a good debate. Also provide links for things much like I did, it makes your argument hold water. Thanks.

 

[CovenantX]

Well there a few things that changed with Mysticism (I felt, were unnecessary) here they are.

Hailstorm - Damage is now split accordingly based on how many targets are hit. * While this sounds fair, it would have been much better to keep damage un-split and nerf stone-form protection.

I know pvm Mystics didn't like this change, and in reality in pvp it was balanced untill you ran into a Group of mystics that had the coordination to drop it on the same general target, making it auto-kill someone. This is alot harder than it sounds, not to mention the only reason people are able to do this Multiple times, is because they cannot be Poisoned/Cursed/Interrupted and can barely be damaged in stoneform+protection. Stone-form + Protection is the root problem, and truly needs to be addressed.

Purge Magic - This spell no longer removes Animal form from targets, but still works on wraith form/vampiric embrace? * This is unfortunate and I felt it was one thing that made mysticism unique, It wasn't like a dismount (there was no cooldown after being purged to re-form...) Should just be changed back, to work on ALL forms. IMO.

 

[CovenantX]

I can't speak for all the pvpers here, but I just want UOs pvp to be balanced again (as much as possible) so that other templates are useful, instead of nothing is good without Poisoning, Mysticism, or Throwing.

it's depressing when you get in vent, and someone asks for help, and said person will respond which character should I bring? " my Thrower, or Nox mage??

and when a guild is going to pop a harrower, "Everyone on their Mystics!"

 

[Logrus]

Strangely enough the majority of my PvPing characters do not have Mysticism, throwing or poisoning. When they ask for help in Vent its usually a call out for my pure mage or bard.

Though in older times the game was alot simpler. Considering there were few PvP centered game mechanic changes from inception til AoS. Once that happened there was changes to melee swings, mana use/regen, equippable weapons during casting, usable special moves, debuffs, 2 new skills.

 

[slayer888]

Gift of Renewal & Attunement even without stone-form make one near temporarily invulnerable in a 1 v 1 situation. it can wear off, and has quite a cooldown on it. however, a mystic can Purge this, and Gift of Renewal & Attunement still remain on cooldown.

if you can't kill someone while you're in stone-form + protection it's because they run. if they stayed on screen the whole time. they wouldn't have a chance. or no one would die... which is just one problem. unless they are a mystic to purge.

I'm not factoring in Attunement and Gift of Renewal, they require another skill. and they're fine imo. and players typically have Spellweaving (pvp) for Pixies, Essence of Wind & Thunderstorm.

Point being you either play a mystic mage, and are pretty much unkillable if you resort to stoneform protection. regardless of what your other skills are. (this is why it's overpowered)

Poisoning, taking only 100 skill points, easily combined with other skills, gives you much more benefit Offensively AND Defensively than other skills. for an example I'll say, Parry - 0-120 cap, only usable against Melee/ranged weapon attacks, for 120 skill pionts. (no protection from casters Whatsoever, unless its combined with Bushido- making it take potentially 240.0 skill points.)

Does no one think Poisoning has enough offensive power, to where it really needs to have this defensive mechanic as well ?

The only part of poisoning I don't agree with is the Orange petal effect, because it's too much of a game-changer when you play against any template that has poisoning and you don't.
Poison should be hard to cure, and it is more often than not, from a DEXER perspective anyway...

now if you're a non-nox-mage fighting someone with poisoning, people are able to just cast healing spells without bothering with cure, because you simply cannot keep a target poisoned unless you yourself have poisoning as well.

Maybe this isn't working as intended (could only hope, maybe it'll get fixed), but it sure has been quite overpowered since it has been introduced.

As I have stated, protection + stoneform and 120 resist is unbeatable in 1 v 1 unless you have poor control or lags.

But at the same time, you could only wrack newbies butt honestly. Please tell me how are 0/6 casting gonna kill anyone?

Lets say I give you all the skills

mysticsm, necro, spirit speak, magery, evalint, focus, resist ALL AT 120

You can imagine this picture, it is not possible to kill anyone even with this.

Because the fact is that you are staying on 0/6. A bandage warrior, a chiv warrior, a mage will never die to a 0/6 casting unless hes not doing his bandage or chugging for warrior and the mage isn't healing or chugging apple or faction bandages... etc.

The only template that would require running off screen would probably be those ninjas bushidos that have no other healing abilities besides confidence and potions...

The casting 0/6 is simply not effective at all in pvp especially, you are on foot... tell me who would like to fight on foot.

As I have stated, my point is that, every type of characters have its pros and cons into it. This stoneform protection 120 resist peep here have the advantage of being immortal in 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 solo... but that is basically it in defensively.

In offense, its a joke. Moreover, in open area, who would be stupid enough to run on foot and pvp... that is like suicide no matter how immortal you could be.

It is overpowered in terms of 1 v 1 solo DEFENSIVELY but is on the other hand weak in OFFENSE compare to many other templates.

 

[CovenantX]

It is overpowered in terms of 1 v 1 solo DEFENSIVELY but is on the other hand weak in OFFENSE compare to many other templates.

This is what's wrong with mysticism. No one should be this close to impossible to kill because someone doesn't Want to play a mystic or doesn't have a mystic to combat this...

Just because it slows you casting speed down to 0/6 (with protection active) doesn't mean you can't kill people in it. it means that they will have an extremely low chance of killing you.
another issue, alot of people probably don't know is that Stoneform reduces your casting speed by -2 fc, but if you go 4/6 casting you will remain at 2/6 while being pretty much completely immune to curses & poisons.

its not just overpowered in 1v1 fights. its overpowered in group fights as well 5v5 mysticsx5 vs ANYTHING OTHER THAN MYSTICSx5.....

I play alot of different templates, and it's significantly easier to survive not only due to stoneform protection, but as I have stated before, you NEED to be a MYSTIC to get rid of this., with about the same offense of a focused mage or a necro-mage (different combos obviously).

Talismans work, but stone-form isn't exactly the easiest thing to interrupt. and Ward Removal Talismans have a very long cooldown.

Edit: you said so yourself that 0/6 casting is ineffective "when your on foot" it's because people are able to run away. now if the person (with no way to purge, is not able to run away (enclosed area) they have a very close to 0% chance of living through it.)

 

[Smokes To Much]

nothing is good without Poisoning, Mysticism, or Throwing.

All it takes to figure out what the latest OPed templates are in UO is to sit at a few PvP hotspots and note what people are running.

I don't know about Poisoning, but Mystics and especially Throwers seem to make up about 75%+ of the serious PvPers.

Archers have almost totally disappeared, replaced by Throwers. That tells you exactly which skill is far superior.

 

[slayer888]

This is what's wrong with mysticism. No one should be this close to impossible to kill because someone doesn't Want to play a mystic or doesn't have a mystic to combat this...

Just because it slows you casting speed down to 0/6 (with protection active) doesn't mean you can't kill people in it. it means that they will have an extremely low chance of killing you.
another issue, alot of people probably don't know is that Stoneform reduces your casting speed by -2 fc, but if you go 4/6 casting you will remain at 2/6 while being pretty much completely immune to curses & poisons.

its not just overpowered in 1v1 fights. its overpowered in group fights as well 5v5 mysticsx5 vs ANYTHING OTHER THAN MYSTICSx5.....

I play alot of different templates, and it's significantly easier to survive not only due to stoneform protection, but as I have stated before, you NEED to be a MYSTIC to get rid of this., with about the same offense of a focused mage or a necro-mage (different combos obviously).

Talismans work, but stone-form isn't exactly the easiest thing to interrupt. and Ward Removal Talismans have a very long cooldown.

Edit: you said so yourself that 0/6 casting is ineffective "when your on foot" it's because people are able to run away. now if the person (with no way to purge, is not able to run away (enclosed area) they have a very close to 0% chance of living through it.)

I don't know how many times I have to repeat friend. But stoneform isn't overpowered. Its not like the word of death armor ignore archer in before where you could 1 hit kill peeps. Or like in old days with lumberjack where you could wrack the crap out of people in 1 hit with a gm axe, or like the moving shot deathstrike which does 70 damage with tracking arrow on the run.. the list goes on.

As I have stated, stone form is just good and ONLY good in close area combat and that is the reason I have listed out the ratings.

If you say its overpowered, it should be like this:-

Offense - 10
Defense - 10
Mobility - 10
Support - 10

But in fact, its NOT in most of the case.

Offensively = crappy crappy crappy, dont tell me you could kill ppl on horseback.

Nowadays pvp happen not just 1 v 1, its about team VS team and by using stone form is just a burden to your teammates honestly, unless like i mentioned, its a CLOSED choke points area (which will not be the case all of the time).

So if a template cannot be used everywhere its not considered overpowered.

Stoneform sacrafice something offensively to trade for something defensively.

What's wrong with running away? When you pvp, you never run away? But too bad, stone form can never run away, I am sorry.

Why not you just say stone form is OP in 1 v 1 duel in a 10 tiles closed area? LOL, maybe basically that is the only way they could shine.

And then again, if someone is using this template, you could also use this template as well? Also, as you've mentioned, you could counter it well with another mystic??? So I dont know honestly.. whats the overpowered about this template who cannot kill nothing while people are laughing at you on their horseback?? I am not clear about this man... and I dont see what nerf is needed for this.

This just a tradeoff in my opinion.

If you say stoneform can't be killed... actually my parry inscribe mage with reactive para shield also cannot be killed. so is it considered overpowered?

I can be on horseback
I have more chance of kicking people's butt because i am on horseback
I have more mobility
I have better support overall
Warriors cant do crap to me cuz i will auto para them once inawhile
mage cant do crap to me cuz I will just disrupt their spells with my spells while if i have trouble, i will run away off screen while they are casting.. which your stoneform could not.

So isn't this template more powerful? lets nerf it also!

 

[Lynk]

I have a change to add to this.... Double Strike / Double Shot - why does it always have to do a check for the second hit? If I use mana for a special and my shot hits, both shots should automatically hit.

So often I use double shot and the first strike hits but the second one does not. You wonder why no one uses this special, thats why. Only time I use it is if I disarm someone, but then it becomes a nonstop disarm fest.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Slayer in your first post you were saying even if you had the skills of a necro mystic you couldn't kill a dexer in stone form +protection. Not only can you kill dexers but anything other than a mage will die to it very easily. The mystic will have decent hpr assuming anyone that pvps on a mystic should be using the crystaline ring unless they're new to pvp. They will decent hpr, they have a heal stone that heals for as much as 50 ep + Alchy. A dexer trying to fight that will get to apple once, and if the mystic is smart where he places his spell plague it will make the apple useless(the target can still be cursed and debuffed completely only having the spell plague removed). After their apple all you need to do on that template is throw on a blood oath and go on the attack. The dexer will die, or run away, but more than likely they will die. A mystic in stoneform in protection is the rock to a dexers paper. It is the ultimate mismatch. So for you to say you'd never kill a dexer in stoneform with protect, that is so far from the truth. When I played that template(Mystic necro) that was the easier thing for me to kill by far.

Also when you're talking about group fights, stoneform is amazing. Said person is dismounted and being focused. The group around him just has to cast one spell and no one will kill him. It takes away from any team work that was once required. Gone are the days of person needing their own cures and you get their heals. Also it use to be nice to have 1 guy with chiv for remove curse/mortal. Now it's remove curse and a huge heal. The person on foot would be smart to go into stone form. They would have their resists increased to 75 across the board, and now they can't be cursed or poison. To say it's no good in group pvp in an open area is insane. It can be useful(too useful) no matter what.

Stoneform is good in any situation, solo, field, and grinders. You also get to use an RC since you're on foot and should have no followers. There is no downside to this template. There's a reason the players you can tell aren't great at pvp cry foul when its talked about adjusting. No other template has this issue where you need a mirror match to beat it without needing items like ward removal ect.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I have a change to add to this.... Double Strike / Double Shot - why does it always have to do a check for the second hit? If I use mana for a special and my shot hits, both shots should automatically hit.

So often I use double shot and the first strike hits but the second one does not. You wonder why no one uses this special, thats why. Only time I use it is if I disarm someone, but then it becomes a nonstop disarm fest.

Deathstrike, even at 120 you can "miss" that special, and it takes the mana. It's been a long time since I used spellweaving but I don't recall if word of death is the same way. Also you can fail going into a couple forms with ninja at 120.

I agree though, I made a char thinking that the yumi would be amazing in group pvp and realized I was better off with armor ignores. Every once in a while everything would go off and I'd hit for 70, but that was very rare. Double strike is terrible in pvp imho.

 

[Lynk]

Deathstrike, word of death, forms are all spells, not special moves.

 

[CovenantX]

If you say its overpowered, it should be like this:-

Offense - 10
Defense - 10
Mobility - 10
Support - 10

But in fact, its NOT in most of the case.

Offensively = crappy crappy crappy, dont tell me you could kill ppl on horseback.

well there's this thing called "a Bola", to slow the movement of one while you're in stone-form no ?

Overpowered its not (from 1-10) 4x10.... nothing is, but now that you mention it. Mysticisms' accurate score on a 1-10 (5 would be balanced) system would look more like this...

(No stone form or protection)
Offense - 5
Defense - 7
Mobility - 5
Support - 10

(with stone form + protection)
Offense - 2.5 (half as fast as normal)
Defense - 10
Mobility - 2.5 (foot speed, but if you dismount your target both would remain equal)...
Support - 10 (Cleanse winds cannot be interrupted, unless protection is removed.)


If stone form is not factored in at all, it would be fine. mysticism would have an overall better defensive line up of abilities/spells compared to say necromancy, but necromancy has a slightly higher offensive line-up Thus being balanced.

Nowadays pvp happen not just 1 v 1, its about team VS team and by using stone form is just a burden to your teammates honestly, unless like i mentioned, its a CLOSED choke points area (which will not be the case all of the time).

So if a template cannot be used everywhere its not considered overpowered.

Stoneform sacrafice something offensively to trade for something defensively.

What's wrong with running away? When you pvp, you never run away? But too bad, stone form can never run away, I am sorry.

Why not you just say stone form is OP in 1 v 1 duel in a 10 tiles closed area? LOL, maybe basically that is the only way they could shine.

I don't understand how it's any different, if something is Overpowering in a 1v1 situation how would it NOT be overpowering with even numbers regardless of how many people are involved ?

Stone form can't run away, because of "foot-speed", but the fact that it makes one nearly invulnerable (unless you're being ganked by 2+ people) means you won't get away How?.... contradictions are all over in here, sorry. I guess it's not "plain as day" overpowering.

And then again, if someone is using this template, you could also use this template as well? Also, as you've mentioned, you could counter it well with another mystic??? So I dont know honestly.. whats the overpowered about this template who cannot kill nothing while people are laughing at you on their horseback?? I am not clear about this man... and I dont see what nerf is needed for this.

You pointed out the problem with it, where you mention you "could" play the same template. the point is, there are NO other templates in the game that Require you to play the same one, in order to beat it.
Except for mysticism. (fine until stone form is used) Which makes Stone-form the obvious problem. obviously there are other things in Pvp that need to be adjusted/tweaked as well. This is just one of many problems.

That being said, when someone is playing a scribe mage, and has max SDI + Casting focus, does that mean you need the same template to beat it? No, when stoneform is part of the fight, it's mandatory for an aggressor to have mysticism as well just to make it possible to kill someone

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Deathstrike, word of death, forms are all spells, not special moves.

I didn't say they weren't. I was listing other things that also use mana and fail.

For everyone else who though animal form was a special move, this guy is here to let you know, it certainly is NOT.

 

[slayer888]

Slayer in your first post you were saying even if you had the skills of a necro mystic you couldn't kill a dexer in stone form +protection. Not only can you kill dexers but anything other than a mage will die to it very easily. The mystic will have decent hpr assuming anyone that pvps on a mystic should be using the crystaline ring unless they're new to pvp. They will decent hpr, they have a heal stone that heals for as much as 50 ep + Alchy. A dexer trying to fight that will get to apple once, and if the mystic is smart where he places his spell plague it will make the apple useless(the target can still be cursed and debuffed completely only having the spell plague removed). After their apple all you need to do on that template is throw on a blood oath and go on the attack. The dexer will die, or run away, but more than likely they will die. A mystic in stoneform in protection is the rock to a dexers paper. It is the ultimate mismatch. So for you to say you'd never kill a dexer in stoneform with protect, that is so far from the truth. When I played that template(Mystic necro) that was the easier thing for me to kill by far.

Also when you're talking about group fights, stoneform is amazing. Said person is dismounted and being focused. The group around him just has to cast one spell and no one will kill him. It takes away from any team work that was once required. Gone are the days of person needing their own cures and you get their heals. Also it use to be nice to have 1 guy with chiv for remove curse/mortal. Now it's remove curse and a huge heal. The person on foot would be smart to go into stone form. They would have their resists increased to 75 across the board, and now they can't be cursed or poison. To say it's no good in group pvp in an open area is insane. It can be useful(too useful) no matter what.

Stoneform is good in any situation, solo, field, and grinders. You also get to use an RC since you're on foot and should have no followers. There is no downside to this template. There's a reason the players you can tell aren't great at pvp cry foul when its talked about adjusting. No other template has this issue where you need a mirror match to beat it without needing items like ward removal ect.

Sorry Truth, but a dexer getting killed by a stoneform + protection.... in this world, there is something called "faction bandage" have you ever tried that faction bandage?

Also, by saying magery resisting mysticism focus necro spirit speak, there take you 720 skills right?

Ok, now lets see, after u casted protection, you go down towards to 80 resist.

In order to bump up to 120 resist, you would have to get a ring from shame type dungeon with +20 resist in both slots OR imbue 15 15 + 10 else where.

Oh, and then you would have to also +15 or 20 resist because you've got a mage weapon -15 weap or -20 weap.

Uh... what else... ok lets assume you have a god suit and all brought you to MAX ability.

MAX hpr, max stamina regeneration, max mana regeneration, max anything, 2/6 (0/6 for protection)

Now the picture comes on what you just said for a necro vs dexer, say in a smaller area? Since this will be favor of the stoneform protection mystic?

Step 1: Mystic casts spell plague on warrior
Step 2: Mystic casts curse on warrior
Step 3: Warrior chugs apple (only remove spell plague), while sitting there waiting the mystic to continue to casts the 0/6 slow spells.
Step 4: mystic starts his necro + mystic damage spells
Step 5: Warrior *yawn* and then take a faction bandage into play
Step 6: Mystic do not have mana available
Step 7: warrior said its time to wrack the crap out of you
Step 8: warrior go right up disarm your -15 weapon and wrack at your butt
Step 9: mystic starts to cast his slowly cleanse wind spell, while the warrior just keep him disarmed and timed the mortal strike in
Step 10: mystic might have a good chance going to eat dirt

The end.

Ok I dont need to say further. If you talk about mystic necro protection + stoneform, thats how u get for the answer.

#2. dexer = on horseback, stoneform + protection = on foot... you are saying that a dexer on horseback will die to someone on foot that are casting at 0/6?

#3. support = 10? Casting at 0/6 will have support of 10 compare to say a necro mage fielding all over non stop with unlimited mana, strangling people, corpse skin, ex fs evil omen pain spike bombs? (sorry this part was to answer Corvetex)

I would have to tell u guys... stone form + protection is merely a tank in group fight and that tank only works in SMALL AREA. It will never work in open area. If you are so desperately to try, go to Asuka and try use a stoneform running around doing your support and bolas... you will be biting dirt within 10 seconds.

 

[slayer888]

well there's this thing called "a Bola", to slow the movement of one while you're in stone-form no ?

Overpowered its not (from 1-10) 4x10.... nothing is, but now that you mention it. Mysticisms' accurate score on a 1-10 (5 would be balanced) system would look more like this...

(No stone form or protection)
Offense - 5
Defense - 7
Mobility - 5
Support - 10

(with stone form + protection)
Offense - 2.5 (half as fast as normal)
Defense - 10
Mobility - 2.5 (foot speed, but if you dismount your target both would remain equal)...
Support - 10 (Cleanse winds cannot be interrupted, unless protection is removed.)


If stone form is not factored in at all, it would be fine. mysticism would have an overall better defensive line up of abilities/spells compared to say necromancy, but necromancy has a slightly higher offensive line-up Thus being balanced.



I don't understand how it's any different, if something is Overpowering in a 1v1 situation how would it NOT be overpowering with even numbers regardless of how many people are involved ?

Stone form can't run away, because of "foot-speed", but the fact that it makes one nearly invulnerable (unless you're being ganked by 2+ people) means you won't get away How?.... contradictions are all over in here, sorry. I guess it's not "plain as day" overpowering.





You pointed out the problem with it, where you mention you "could" play the same template. the point is, there are NO other templates in the game that Require you to play the same one, in order to beat it.
Except for mysticism. (fine until stone form is used) Which makes Stone-form the obvious problem. obviously there are other things in Pvp that need to be adjusted/tweaked as well. This is just one of many problems.

That being said, when someone is playing a scribe mage, and has max SDI + Casting focus, does that mean you need the same template to beat it? No, when stoneform is part of the fight, it's mandatory for an aggressor to have mysticism as well just to make it possible to kill someone

If stone form is factored in, and then mystics will be having higher offensive power than a necro would????????????????????? Are you trying to imply that....... come on, please do not twist the fact please, its really getting tired if we continue to argue like this.

The fact and pure fact is that stone form + protection = 1/10 offense.. period. Please do not argue anymore further.

And that's what they have SACRAFICED for the higher defense of 10/10.

Do you know in terms of the suits, you have to sacrafice how many things in order to have 40 extra resisting skills onto it??

But to tell you the truth, i run the highest ever possible defense char in my mystic.

stoneform + protection + 120 resist

parrying 120
wrestling 120
resisting 120 (86 + 34 after protection)
mysticims 120
focus 120
ninja 90
chiv 55

I have various + skills items that give me an extra of 25 skill points along with the +34 resisting. So total of +59 stat

(Sorry I may have made an error about the 80 resisting, as I have too long time havent used this char, it was actually 86 resist after cast protection at 120 original resist)

 

[CovenantX]

If stone form is factored in, and then mystics will be having higher offensive power than a necro would????????????????????? Are you trying to imply that....... come on

you must have misread my post, I NEVER implied the offense was "equal to or greater than" Anyone, the defense gained from stone-form protection is simply too great. when compared to ANYTHING else in pvp.
If anything the defense is good enough to make the offense useful. because you don't need to heal yourself anywhere near as often, allowing you to do more offensive fighting before you need to go defensive.

You seem to "not, or don't Want" to believe its overpowered. even though you plainly stated here on stratics ...

As I have stated, protection + stoneform and 120 resist is unbeatable in 1 v 1 unless you have poor control or lags.

please do not twist the fact please, its really getting tired if we continue to argue like this.

which "Facts" have I twisted? you're the one that seems to imply that mysticism isn't overpowering even though you say it is in any 1v1 situation.... doesn't make sense... why continue? because if we don't say anything we're going to end up PVP-LESS which is what I (and many others DON'T WANT).

It's important to me that you (and everyone else ) understand, I don't want things to be nerfed to Uselessness. - I want Everything to be made Useful. = Balanced.

 

[slayer888]

you must have misread my post, I NEVER implied the offense was "equal to or greater than" Anyone, the defense gained from stone-form protection is simply too great. when compared to ANYTHING else in pvp.
If anything the defense is good enough to make the offense useful. because you don't need to heal yourself anywhere near as often, allowing you to do more offensive fighting before you need to go defensive.

You seem to "not, or don't Want" to believe its overpowered. even though you plainly stated here on stratics ...





which "Facts" have I twisted? you're the one that seems to imply that mysticism isn't overpowering even though you say it is in any 1v1 situation.... doesn't make sense... why continue? because if we don't say anything we're going to end up PVP-LESS which is what I (and many others DON'T WANT).

It's important to me that you understand, I don't want things to be nerfed to Uselessess. - I want Everything to be made Useful. = Balanced.

Ok your original post is saying stone form + protection is overpowered and should be balanced right?

But I give out points saying that it is already balanced enough because like any other templates out there, it has it PROs and CONs in it. Its not a perfect overpowered uber template where you use this combo immediately your enemies will be doomed (like in the days of deathstrike moving 70 non stop with tracking arrow, etc...)

I say it in any 1 v 1 situation, is just based on my opinion based on my TEMPLATE as per above photo I showed you. I didnt say stone form + protection with any other templates (such as a necro mystic) would have a rating of 10/10 DEFENSE in 1 v 1.

I hope to clarify this situation.

I honestly dont see stone form + protection being used AT ALL in both Formosa and Asuka and even if i have missed, the usage of stone form + protection are just so low that it won't make anything imbalanced immediately.

In this situation and based on these result + having a character of this, I provide opinion that, stoneform + protection isn't overpowered and thus do not need to be fixed or balanced anymore further.

 

[CovenantX]

Ok your original post is saying stone form + protection is overpowered and should be balanced right?

But I give out points saying that it is already balanced enough because like any other templates out there, it has it PROs and CONs in it. Its not a perfect overpowered uber template where you use this combo immediately your enemies will be doomed (like in the days of deathstrike moving 70 non stop with tracking arrow, etc...)

I say it in any 1 v 1 situation, is just based on my opinion based on my TEMPLATE as per above photo I showed you. I didnt say stone form + protection with any other templates (such as a necro mystic) would have a rating of 10/10 DEFENSE in 1 v 1.

I hope to clarify this situation.

I honestly dont see stone form + protection being used AT ALL in both Formosa and Asuka and even if i have missed, the usage of stone form + protection are just so low that it won't make anything imbalanced immediately.

In this situation and based on these result + having a character of this, I provide opinion that, stoneform + protection isn't overpowered and thus do not need to be fixed or balanced anymore further.

Ok that explains it you clarified it well. are Formosa & Asuka populated (pvp)? I can honestly say I don't have any characters there' so I don't know. (will have to come check I guess =])
and until the true hardcore pvpers come over to that shard it would remain untainted with OP skills.

What I do know, is on Atlantic and LS (LS being my primary shard) pvp is the same Everywhere. very VERY seldom do you see anyone without either Mysticism, Throwing, or Any variant without Poisoning.
PVP is not hard to find on Atlantic. and it's safe to assume everyone you fight runs the same template (they don't run it because it's good, They run it because it can't be beat by anything else.)

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Sorry Truth, but a dexer getting killed by a stoneform + protection.... in this world, there is something called "faction bandage" have you ever tried that faction bandage?

Also, by saying magery resisting mysticism focus necro spirit speak, there take you 720 skills right?

Ok, now lets see, after u casted protection, you go down towards to 80 resist.

In order to bump up to 120 resist, you would have to get a ring from shame type dungeon with +20 resist in both slots OR imbue 15 15 + 10 else where.

Oh, and then you would have to also +15 or 20 resist because you've got a mage weapon -15 weap or -20 weap.

Uh... what else... ok lets assume you have a god suit and all brought you to MAX ability.

MAX hpr, max stamina regeneration, max mana regeneration, max anything, 2/6 (0/6 for protection)

Now the picture comes on what you just said for a necro vs dexer, say in a smaller area? Since this will be favor of the stoneform protection mystic?

Step 1: Mystic casts spell plague on warrior
Step 2: Mystic casts curse on warrior
Step 3: Warrior chugs apple (only remove spell plague), while sitting there waiting the mystic to continue to casts the 0/6 slow spells.
Step 4: mystic starts his necro + mystic damage spells
Step 5: Warrior *yawn* and then take a faction bandage into play
Step 6: Mystic do not have mana available
Step 7: warrior said its time to wrack the crap out of you
Step 8: warrior go right up disarm your -15 weapon and wrack at your butt
Step 9: mystic starts to cast his slowly cleanse wind spell, while the warrior just keep him disarmed and timed the mortal strike in
Step 10: mystic might have a good chance going to eat dirt

The end.

Ok I dont need to say further. If you talk about mystic necro protection + stoneform, thats how u get for the answer.

#2. dexer = on horseback, stoneform + protection = on foot... you are saying that a dexer on horseback will die to someone on foot that are casting at 0/6?

#3. support = 10? Casting at 0/6 will have support of 10 compare to say a necro mage fielding all over non stop with unlimited mana, strangling people, corpse skin, ex fs evil omen pain spike bombs? (sorry this part was to answer Corvetex)

I would have to tell u guys... stone form + protection is merely a tank in group fight and that tank only works in SMALL AREA. It will never work in open area. If you are so desperately to try, go to Asuka and try use a stoneform running around doing your support and bolas... you will be biting dirt within 10 seconds.

I know how many skill points the template takes, and also that template gets a lot of + skill points when it's set up correctly.

You don't need any shame loot.

If you're talking about dexers, what does it matter if you're at 86 resist? Dexers can't cast spells, and nor do they have eval.

Faction bandages have a cool down. Also if you keep spell plague up all it will do is remove it and it's very easy to put back on.
The fight would not go like that at all. If you do time a mortal, the mystic can apple and hit his healing stone for 45 damage.
If you would like we can go to test center and I would be glad to show you how the fight would go, and then I want you to come back here and admit that you were wrong and that a mystic mage in stoneform will beat a dexer. So please let me know if you ever feel like fighting me there so I can show you

@2 Yes i am saying that a dexer will die to a someone in stoneform protection. As I said before the dexer will either die or run away, the dexer will not win and will not be able to stay on screen.

@3 Why would a necro have unlimited mana and a mystic not? Mystics have at least the same regen if not better. Also assuming the necros are trying to attack people in stoneform, they would not be able to strangle, and curse ect. Do you know how little damage exp fs omen would do to someone whose resists are raised to 75? It would hit very weak, the corpse would take it down a little but with the + elemental resists they gain and the gain in the cap, it would be very ineffective.

I will have to decline your request for me to go to a dead shard, I will stay on my populated shards, but thank you for the offer.

Please make sure to let me know if you'd like to go to test center so I can show you how easily the mystic will win, and we'll make sure that you have faction bandages, apples, pots, the works. We can do some fights in the arena so I can show you when the dexer has to fight he is going to die 100% of the time. Also we can do some in the field(no arena) so I can show you that the dexer will run away because they will realize they stand no chance.

 

[CovenantX]

@Slayer & Truth, It's not just dexers, it's everything will eventually die to a Stone form + protection, because there is no beating it - If there's no way to remove stone form.

Dexers are actually at a "Slightly higher chance to kill a stoneform+protection mystic, because they have the ONLY Effective way to Stop a mystic from healing - Mortal Strike - They also have the only attack that could bypass the armor/resistance buff from SF+Prot being - Armor Ignore, but you need to factor in, there's a good chance of missing (fair exists with all templates) but if these specials are NOT used a dexer has absolutely a 0% chance to win.

Running is considered losing to some people... but Running is even further away from Winning.

No body wants to spend 10 minutes to kill one person (Prot+SF Mystic), When they could kill 5-10 people (non prot+SF Mystics) in the same 10 minutes...

 

[slayer888]

Ok that explains it you clarified it well. are Formosa & Asuka populated (pvp)? I can honestly say I don't have any characters there' so I don't know. (will have to come check I guess =])
and until the true hardcore pvpers come over to that shard it would remain untainted with OP skills.

What I do know, is on Atlantic and LS (LS being my primary shard) pvp is the same Everywhere. very VERY seldom do you see anyone without either Mysticism, Throwing, or Any variant without Poisoning.
PVP is not hard to find on Atlantic. and it's safe to assume everyone you fight runs the same template (they don't run it because it's good, They run it because it can't be beat by anything else.)

I will have to disagree with you. Not everyone runs the same templates.. there are still fencer archers, tamers, nerve strike mage, deathstrike mage, etc.. out there. Usually a team consists of 1 mystic as support out of say around 4-5 ppl.. so no, not everyone really using mysticism -.- in our shards, thus we feel it is not overpowered at all.

If whole group of mysticism thrower VS a well balance combinations of everything else, they gonna not have a guaranteed win also

It's just how well you do during the support (well not counting those peeps who could auto targetting you within 1 second all at the same time in Asuka)

In fact, you could go and check about Asuka. Along with Hokuto should be the most populated pvp areas around... other shards not so certain though.

 

[slayer888]

I know how many skill points the template takes, and also that template gets a lot of + skill points when it's set up correctly.

You don't need any shame loot.

If you're talking about dexers, what does it matter if you're at 86 resist? Dexers can't cast spells, and nor do they have eval.

Faction bandages have a cool down. Also if you keep spell plague up all it will do is remove it and it's very easy to put back on.
The fight would not go like that at all. If you do time a mortal, the mystic can apple and hit his healing stone for 45 damage.
If you would like we can go to test center and I would be glad to show you how the fight would go, and then I want you to come back here and admit that you were wrong and that a mystic mage in stoneform will beat a dexer. So please let me know if you ever feel like fighting me there so I can show you

@2 Yes i am saying that a dexer will die to a someone in stoneform protection. As I said before the dexer will either die or run away, the dexer will not win and will not be able to stay on screen.

@3 Why would a necro have unlimited mana and a mystic not? Mystics have at least the same regen if not better. Also assuming the necros are trying to attack people in stoneform, they would not be able to strangle, and curse ect. Do you know how little damage exp fs omen would do to someone whose resists are raised to 75? It would hit very weak, the corpse would take it down a little but with the + elemental resists they gain and the gain in the cap, it would be very ineffective.

I will have to decline your request for me to go to a dead shard, I will stay on my populated shards, but thank you for the offer.

Please make sure to let me know if you'd like to go to test center so I can show you how easily the mystic will win, and we'll make sure that you have faction bandages, apples, pots, the works. We can do some fights in the arena so I can show you when the dexer has to fight he is going to die 100% of the time. Also we can do some in the field(no arena) so I can show you that the dexer will run away because they will realize they stand no chance.

1. So you're saying you make a mysticm mage is to fight dexxer all of the time? Resist is not important? Uh... then again I would have to tell you straight ahead again:-

Rating - offense = 1/10
defense = 10/10 solo
support = 7/10 in closed area
mobility = 1/10

2. Ok, so you ask a dexer on a horseback to stand still and let you bomb when hes redlined? I dont get it dude. So in another words, an overpowered template REQUIRES someone to stand in a CLOSE AREA to fight him 1 v 1 to show his overpowerness? Cool, really overpowered

3. With protection + stoneform set up and 120 resist, your mana reserve will obviously lower than what a necro could offer (even not counting lich form or wraith form). But anyways argue this really depends on your suit.

In another words, u will use stone form to retreat with your guildmates to another area when you guys are overwhelmed?

compared to a necro on horseback who could blink to the other spot and recast para fields???????

Moreover, 0/6 casting para fields compare to 2/6 casting para fields 0/6 is better in support.. really i find it very ironic now.

If you want to test, u could come over to Formosa or Asuka to test where i will stand still and let you bomb me with your overpowered on FOOT stoneform 0/6 casting LOL that needed to be fixed -.-. I dont feel like the test center where my bandage doesnt even kick in when i press the button due the packet losses and 500+ pings or i cant even outrun your character even you on are foot while i am on horse

 

[Speaking the Truth]

1. So you're saying you make a mysticm mage is to fight dexxer all of the time? Resist is not important? Uh... then again I would have to tell you straight ahead again:-

Rating - offense = 1/10
defense = 10/10 solo
support = 7/10 in closed area
mobility = 1/10

2. Ok, so you ask a dexer on a horseback to stand still and let you bomb when hes redlined? I dont get it dude. So in another words, an overpowered template REQUIRES someone to stand in a CLOSE AREA to fight him 1 v 1 to show his overpowerness? Cool, really overpowered

3. With protection + stoneform set up and 120 resist, your mana reserve will obviously lower than what a necro could offer (even not counting lich form or wraith form). But anyways argue this really depends on your suit.

In another words, u will use stone form to retreat with your guildmates to another area when you guys are overwhelmed?

compared to a necro on horseback who could blink to the other spot and recast para fields???????

Moreover, 0/6 casting para fields compare to 2/6 casting para fields 0/6 is better in support.. really i find it very ironic now.

If you want to test, u could come over to Formosa or Asuka to test where i will stand still and let you bomb me with your overpowered on FOOT stoneform 0/6 casting LOL that needed to be fixed -.-. I dont feel like the test center where my bandage doesnt even kick in when i press the button due the packet losses and 500+ pings or i cant even outrun your character even you on are foot while i am on horse

You were talking about resist vs a dexer, I said that resist doesn't matter since a dexer can't do anything about lowesr resist
(from prot). You were talking about going down to 86 resist. I only play with 120 resist on my chars, even my sampire.

a 1 to 10 makes no sense, its subjective, it's not a real system. Also I just want to point out that it's not like you can't run on foot in stoneform, you're not forced to stand still you can move around at running speed on foot. Next how is it not a 10 out of 10 in your rating system? You don't think a spell that removes curse, cures , and heals is worthy of max support rating? The offense the mysticnecro from YOUR example would have a huge offense, even in protection. Your 1 out of 10 business only makes sense to you, that's not a real system anyone can go off of.

2 - you're proving my point for me. I told you that a dexer would either die or run, and you were claiming with pots, apples, faction bandages, and the ability to mortal a dexer could stay on screen and would kill a mystic. I said if this were true then fights in the arena would really prove you wrong where the dexer in your example was staying on screen. So thank you what you've now done is admitted that a dexer would run away, or would not stack up in a fight vs a mystic necro in stoneform and prot.

3- It's not based on suits, look at a mana regen calculator, focus adds a lot more mana regen than people realize. Also if you want to talk about forms the mystic can purge the necro, so that point is null and void.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You went from describing a field fight with someone dismounted(which was my example) to a grinder.

If you want to talk about grinders, you're going to be in protection. So these "necros" would be 0/6 casting vs the mystics who would also be 0/6. Both groups of mages would be able to cast fields reguardless, but in my example fields weren't being discussed. We were talking about how stoneform and prot still has usefulness even when you're on foot in the field fight(my example) to keep someone alive and not have them die.

There is nothing to find ironic in this post, the only part that is ironic about what you said that now this dexer that would kill a mystic so fast, now "Why would he stay on screen redlined?". It's ironic because I was the one saying that this dexer would run or die, but winning would not be the outcome for the dexer.

I already told you in the previous post I am not interested in transfering to a dead shard from my high populated ones. Unlike you, you could play a dexer on test, I can't play a mage where you need timing to cast with a big difference. Although I would consider playing with 700 ping if I transfer over there if you want to provide with me 2 tokens. Otherwise, test center it is(which makes more sense).

 

[slayer888]

You were talking about resist vs a dexer, I said that resist doesn't matter since a dexer can't do anything about lowesr resist
(from prot). You were talking about going down to 86 resist. I only play with 120 resist on my chars, even my sampire.

a 1 to 10 makes no sense, its subjective, it's not a real system. Also I just want to point out that it's not like you can't run on foot in stoneform, you're not forced to stand still you can move around at running speed on foot. Next how is it not a 10 out of 10 in your rating system? You don't think a spell that removes curse, cures , and heals is worthy of max support rating? The offense the mysticnecro from YOUR example would have a huge offense, even in protection. Your 1 out of 10 business only makes sense to you, that's not a real system anyone can go off of.

2 - you're proving my point for me. I told you that a dexer would either die or run, and you were claiming with pots, apples, faction bandages, and the ability to mortal a dexer could stay on screen and would kill a mystic. I said if this were true then fights in the arena would really prove you wrong where the dexer in your example was staying on screen. So thank you what you've now done is admitted that a dexer would run away, or would not stack up in a fight vs a mystic necro in stoneform and prot.

3- It's not based on suits, look at a mana regen calculator, focus adds a lot more mana regen than people realize. Also if you want to talk about forms the mystic can purge the necro, so that point is null and void.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You went from describing a field fight with someone dismounted(which was my example) to a grinder.

If you want to talk about grinders, you're going to be in protection. So these "necros" would be 0/6 casting vs the mystics who would also be 0/6. Both groups of mages would be able to cast fields reguardless, but in my example fields weren't being discussed. We were talking about how stoneform and prot still has usefulness even when you're on foot in the field fight(my example) to keep someone alive and not have them die.

There is nothing to find ironic in this post, the only part that is ironic about what you said that now this dexer that would kill a mystic so fast, now "Why would he stay on screen redlined?". It's ironic because I was the one saying that this dexer would run or die, but winning would not be the outcome for the dexer.

I already told you in the previous post I am not interested in transfering to a dead shard from my high populated ones. Unlike you, you could play a dexer on test, I can't play a mage where you need timing to cast with a big difference. Although I would consider playing with 700 ping if I transfer over there if you want to provide with me 2 tokens. Otherwise, test center it is(which makes more sense).

First, I would like to tell you to stick to the topic and dont' get off topic more please.

Corvetex mentioned the overpowerness of protection + stoneform and my replies are purely based on that to prove stoneform + protection isn't as overpowering as one suggests. Yet you entered the topic telling me that you have 120 resist all of the time??

Don't you know that when you casts protection you would be 86 resist immediately? How can I further explain to you then?

Second, as mentioned, someone running on horseback and you're running on foot and yet you claim that you would have BETTER SUPPORT than someone on horseback in pvp fights.... MY GOODNESS, how ignorance this could get honestly...

Third, honestly, I have to repeat again, in a pvp fight, if someone is redlined, based on logic, he should stand still? If he does not stand still and die and run away then it proves your point correct? What kind of logic is this. So you said that an OVERPOWERED stone form + protection character cannot kill anyone because someone is running off screen and then you say stone form + protection is an overpowered template and needs to be nerfed?? Please be more smart okay?

Forth, focus gives you TOTAL of wooping 6 mana regeneration and guess what, a mystic necro will have what skills? Please list out your designated skills for me.. Please make sure you list it under the STONE FORM + PROTECTION template... ok now I am waiting for your show time then we will conclude a necro mage will be more efficient in pvp fights or a STONE FORM + protection overpowered dude on foot is more overpowered ...

Fifth, I am talking about fields fights and that is not what you're talking about? HELLO??? UO is a freedom game where you could customize whatever templates you want to pvp. So meaning, you are trying to limit others to do other things where a stone form + protection CANNOT????????????????????

So do you ask your enemy that, oh I am casting in 0/6 now! You should be casting in 0/6 also.. oh crap.. so if you have 0 FC in your suit, you would be casting at -2 / 6 then, should your enemy follow as well? So your field casting switching spots isn't effective, then you ask people DO NOT compare field casting with me! Cuz I am overpowered in the DEFENSE 1 v 1 but I am not good at much of everything else, you cant compare this way! I am still overpowered!!!!! please nerf me!!!

Sixth, I am telling you the scenrio where u said u are gonna use a necro mystic to fight a warrior in STONE FORM + protection.

Then we are to assume a mystic + necro is 120 resist, magery, necro, ss, focus, mystic right? So meaning hes carrying a mage weapon right? So meaning once disarmed hes being hit 100% of the time right? disarm + mortal wound + armor ignore = KO. Easy.

The fact is, if you want to ONLY fight Dexxer and u customize your char only for dexer, you could surely take out that resisting and put wrestling there... but again, so if you do this, meaning you adjust your character only for DEXXER and when you find a mage fighting you, i mean pure mage, OH no 1 mana vampire and your mana is BYE BYE, so in this case, my protection + stoneform is still overpowered, please NERF me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Basically I am just giving my opinions and data showing protection + stoneform is not overpowered and thus no need to be nerfed. That's my main point.

 

[slayer888]

Oh yes, until one day they change it so that "Stone Form = can fly or ride horse" Otherwise, at this stage, it is never nearly in the overpower category. Its a well balanced template served for only the purpose of "TANKING"

 

[CovenantX]

1. So you're saying you make a mysticm mage is to fight dexxer all of the time? Resist is not important? Uh... then again I would have to tell you straight ahead again:-

2. Ok, so you ask a dexer on a horseback to stand still and let you bomb when hes redlined? I dont get it dude. So in another words, an overpowered template REQUIRES someone to stand in a CLOSE AREA to fight him 1 v 1 to show his overpowerness? Cool, really overpowered

3. With protection + stoneform set up and 120 resist, your mana reserve will obviously lower than what a necro could offer (even not counting lich form or wraith form). But anyways argue this really depends on your suit.

In another words, u will use stone form to retreat with your guildmates to another area when you guys are overwhelmed?
compared to a necro on horseback who could blink to the other spot and recast para fields???????
Moreover, 0/6 casting para fields compare to 2/6 casting para fields 0/6 is better in support.. really i find it very ironic now.

***Resisting spells* is not important when you're fighting a dexer, it's also nothing new.

Back to the reasons ****Mysticism is overpowered**** and it's not the only thing that needs adjusting.


1) If you can't remove SF+Prot, mystics are nearly Invincible. (NO other template has anything close to this) = Overpowered.

2) No one said anything about a dexer needing to stand still to die to a mystic.... the fact of the matter is.. a Mystic cannot be killed when they resort to Stone-form protection unless they are outnumbered 2+v1 or unless they are fighting another mystic... = Overpowered.

Obviously it would be slightly harder to kill someone when they can run, but you are guaranteed you Cannot be Killed by Someone who can Only run away = Overpowered.

3) You factor in Lich/wraith form, when a mystic can Purge, nothing else can. so Again... Mystics, are Mystics only real weakness.... This is what makes it overpowering, hence why most (if not all people) play mystics anymore.

You do realize Para fields do absolutely nothing unless you Move into them right? besides. fields have nothing to do with it.... it's 100% Stone form+Protection+Cleanse Winds. and to be honest, it's only the first Cleanse winds that is necessary... because there's no way to stop one from healing unless you have mortal strike anyway.. so guess what? This is why it's overpowered. . . .

*1. make stoneform Not work with protection at all...

*2. make Cleanse Winds use Purge on all the targets that benefit from it, so they get 1 uninterrupt-able heal,cure & remove curse. each time they cast SF+Prot+CW..

The ability to be immune to all curses & Poisons would be enough... IF they were interrupt-able. Mystics would still have a defensive advantage and still be much harder to kill... but not impossible like they are right now...

 

[CovenantX]

Before this thread gets locked.....

The Devs really need to take some of what was said here into consideration.

Thank you.

make pvp good again.

 

[Lynk]

I didn't say they weren't. I was listing other things that also use mana and fail.

For everyone else who though animal form was a special move, this guy is here to let you know, it certainly is NOT.

Nice fail slip.. Animal form does not take mana if it fails. the weaving spell youre thinking of is dryad allure.. deathstrike fails amd takes.mana because of the difficulty of the spell.

Double shot is not even in the same arena...

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I have a change to add to this.... Double Strike / Double Shot - why does it always have to do a check for the second hit? If I use mana for a special and my shot hits, both shots should automatically hit.

I'm not sure what nice fail slip means. However you were the one that pointed out if you use mana both hits should automatically hit.
I was pointing out that deathstrike also uses mana, and can fail completely. At least with double strike you'll at least get some damage in there.

Then while I was on the topic of things that fail at 120 I listed the other things. I'm sorry I thought someone that considered themselves so good at pvp would pick up on this. Next time I will make sure to spell everything out for you. Every good pvper knows that animal form doesn't take mana if it doesn't go off. I have made a mental to note for next time to make sure I spell out things that everyone should already know in a pvp thread. I guess to you it should make sense for things to fail at 120? I don't see the logic in that..

 

[Speaking the Truth]

First, I would like to tell you to stick to the topic and dont' get off topic more please.

Corvetex mentioned the overpowerness of protection + stoneform and my replies are purely based on that to prove stoneform + protection isn't as overpowering as one suggests. Yet you entered the topic telling me that you have 120 resist all of the time??

Don't you know that when you casts protection you would be 86 resist immediately? How can I further explain to you then?

Second, as mentioned, someone running on horseback and you're running on foot and yet you claim that you would have BETTER SUPPORT than someone on horseback in pvp fights.... MY GOODNESS, how ignorance this could get honestly...

Third, honestly, I have to repeat again, in a pvp fight, if someone is redlined, based on logic, he should stand still? If he does not stand still and die and run away then it proves your point correct? What kind of logic is this. So you said that an OVERPOWERED stone form + protection character cannot kill anyone because someone is running off screen and then you say stone form + protection is an overpowered template and needs to be nerfed?? Please be more smart okay?

Forth, focus gives you TOTAL of wooping 6 mana regeneration and guess what, a mystic necro will have what skills? Please list out your designated skills for me.. Please make sure you list it under the STONE FORM + PROTECTION template... ok now I am waiting for your show time then we will conclude a necro mage will be more efficient in pvp fights or a STONE FORM + protection overpowered dude on foot is more overpowered ...

Fifth, I am talking about fields fights and that is not what you're talking about? HELLO??? UO is a freedom game where you could customize whatever templates you want to pvp. So meaning, you are trying to limit others to do other things where a stone form + protection CANNOT????????????????????

So do you ask your enemy that, oh I am casting in 0/6 now! You should be casting in 0/6 also.. oh crap.. so if you have 0 FC in your suit, you would be casting at -2 / 6 then, should your enemy follow as well? So your field casting switching spots isn't effective, then you ask people DO NOT compare field casting with me! Cuz I am overpowered in the DEFENSE 1 v 1 but I am not good at much of everything else, you cant compare this way! I am still overpowered!!!!! please nerf me!!!

Sixth, I am telling you the scenrio where u said u are gonna use a necro mystic to fight a warrior in STONE FORM + protection.

Then we are to assume a mystic + necro is 120 resist, magery, necro, ss, focus, mystic right? So meaning hes carrying a mage weapon right? So meaning once disarmed hes being hit 100% of the time right? disarm + mortal wound + armor ignore = KO. Easy.

The fact is, if you want to ONLY fight Dexxer and u customize your char only for dexer, you could surely take out that resisting and put wrestling there... but again, so if you do this, meaning you adjust your character only for DEXXER and when you find a mage fighting you, i mean pure mage, OH no 1 mana vampire and your mana is BYE BYE, so in this case, my protection + stoneform is still overpowered, please NERF me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Basically I am just giving my opinions and data showing protection + stoneform is not overpowered and thus no need to be nerfed. That's my main point.

So you're saying you make a mysticm mage is to fight dexxer all of the time? Resist is not important? - slayer

Now the picture comes on what you just said for a necro vs dexer, say in a smaller area? Since this will be favor of the stoneform protection mystic?

Step 1: Mystic casts spell plague on warrior
Step 2: Mystic casts curse on warrior
Step 3: Warrior chugs apple (only remove spell plague), while sitting there waiting the mystic to continue to casts the 0/6 slow spells.
Step 4: mystic starts his necro + mystic damage spells
Step 5: Warrior *yawn* and then take a faction bandage into play
Step 6: Mystic do not have mana available
Step 7: warrior said its time to wrack the crap out of you
Step 8: warrior go right up disarm your -15 weapon and wrack at your butt
Step 9: mystic starts to cast his slowly cleanse wind spell, while the warrior just keep him disarmed and timed the mortal strike in
Step 10: mystic might have a good chance going to eat dirt - slayer

You were the one that brought up resist first, and then what would happen vs a dexer in a small area, not me. So please you need to stay on topic with what YOU said first. YOU were the one that brought up resist first, then what would happen vs a dexer in a smaller area. Scroll up and you will see that you are the one that mentions these things first.

Now again what does protection have to do with a dexer? You brought this up speaking about a dexer and no one here can connect that dots on lower magic resist vs a dexer...there is no connection, so I'm not sure why you brought that up and that's what I've been pointing out.

@ your 3 - YOU said the dexer would win, now you're saying he would run away redlined. That's my point exactly the dexer will run away or die, he will never do enough damage to kill the person with 75 in every resist that can't be disrupted.

4- Knuckleheads.dk • Information -Go here and realize that focus vs med is not as you're trying to portray it. You are trying to make it sound like focus gives you 6 mr and med gives you 12. If that were correct then 120 med vs 120 focus would be double, but that's not the case. Also as everyone has pointed out, a mystic will be in better shape mana wise since his 1 spell removes curse, cures, and heals. So the other mages would have to cast more spells(which take more mana).

5- So you're saying if you had someone dismounted in a field fight you were start to throw fields? I'm not following how you are going to kill someone with a field? Also as it was already mentioned you only get stuck if you're moving in them, a group of mystics would have the advantage since they would not be able to get poisoned. Also a lot of fighting takes place near the Empath Abbey on a lot of shards where there is a guard zone and in Brit for factions. You can field in either of these places. To be honest I'm very confused why you started talking about fields in open field pvp. We are talking about a template and you went off topic talking about spells that every mage gets.

You stopped numbering very weird. - Again who said any player is playing with 0 fc for this template? You just seem to make things up, and as I said if you are in a grinder everyone would be in protection so everyone would have 0/6 casting. In the open field you still didn't tell me why you would throw fields if someone is dismounted. You keep going off topic and it seems like you're trying to get the thread locked because you are being beaten logically.

6 (back to numbering I see)- So you started off by saying a dexer would win, then you said he would be redlined and run away, and now you're saying that the first picture you painted us would happen? So the dexer will win again? You have to pick one side and stay with it. When you're wishy-washy it makes your argument look silly.

What would you do if the mage is good and takes off his wep every time he sees a disarm wep and rearms it every time the dexer switched to anything else? Then he would never be on disarm timer(this is very easy to do). On top of which, what about apples to remove mortal + heal stone+ hpr + cleansing winds?
This would not be an easy KO. I just want to point out that yes I am talking about using a mage wep, and two, you're back to saying the dexer would win after I said he would not. You keep flip flopping a lot.

Every good pvper runs 120 resist. I was merely pointing out that you said I'd have 80something resist(you didn't know the number) and I pointed out I would have 86 vs a dexer but it doesn't matter since the dexer can't do anything. So I will stress this again what would mana vamp do to a person with 120 resist(which is all good pvpers)?

A pure mage would never kill a mystic in stoneform protection, if you had two of the same skilled players. He could never curse so he would be trying to kill someone with 75 in all resists and can't poison him.

Please stay on topic and just stop bringing up the dexer vs mystic I've already showed you many flaws in your logic to that, and that's not even counting fields and summons that a mage can use, I'm talking just the mystic. If I get into anything else the mage can do it just makes my argument even stronger.

Also stop talking about the resist thing, I don't play without and neither does any skilled pvper.

Please stay on topic so this doesn't get locked, there are multiple people showing you why you're wrong. Based on the shards you play and how the syntax of your sentence is, English might not be your first language so perhaps you aren't understanding what everyone is saying?

 

[Lord X]

Couple things that have been driving me nuts while trying to catch up on this thread. Things that weren't specifically mentioned.

1. Another reason Throwing is better/more OP then Archery is the specs. In two weps the Thrower has all the specs he needs: Mortal, Para, Dismount and AI. The archer needs 3 to do all those things and 2 weps is ALOT easier to switch between then 3. Also Dismounting with the Cyclone is quite faster then with the Heavy Xbow though Throwing's faster speed has already been discussed.

2. All this talk about how the dexxer or any NON stoneform/prot mage can just run away and not have to worry about that slow moving Myst mage ..... doesn't take into consideration that the Myst mage just MAY be planted right where you want to be. For instance a hallway that you need to go through or sitting on the island in Despise.

 

[Smokes To Much]

Just to add further fuel to this fire.

Don't forget that Mysticism also has the best summon in the game.

 

[CovenantX]

So what you are telling the PvMers is to make a sampire and only play that template. If a Mystic is so powerfull then maybe PvPers should just make only Mystics and play that. Sorry but there are a lot of different play styles PvP/PvM. When has UO ever used a small NERF HAMMER? Any balance UO does should include PLAYERS and MOBS.

No, it's an actual choice on the pvm side of things... because you can kill ANY monster with ANY Template... it's just faster & easier with a sampire than Anything else... so why would you play anything other than a sampire ? it is pretty similar considering pvp/pvm are totally different things.

in Pvp, it's simply NOT possible to kill someone in stone-form protection 1 v 1. with any template, except a mystic.

They might as well just give mystics the ability to turn their name yellow so they can't be attacked...

Mysticism just has too much in so few spells when you compare it to most other skill-sets, Mystics have a very competitive offense, and an Unmatched Defense.

it's absolutely ridiculous...

Example - While the defense is greater with 2 spells (stone-form + protection) stone-form being highly resistant to Everything & not removable by anything but Purge. Parry (a Defensive skill) Parrying only effecting block-able damage (half of what's in the game) even if you include bushido to block all damage types, there is still a cooldown to balance it out, so no one is permanently immune to everything...


If there was a way to make a change and Only affect pvp, and not bother pvm, obviously it would be better. but in all honesty I don't see it being possible, but you never know...

This is why we need to discuss these things.

 

[Lord Frodo]

in Pvp, it's simply NOT possible to kill someone in stone-form protection 1 v 1. with any template, except a mystic.

Well I think slayer888 invited you to his/her shard to prove you wrong. So are you going to take them up on it and learn what he/she is talking about? Nah, because this is not the real reason you are requesting this so called "PvP Balance" is it.

It sounds like one of your fellow PvPers said it best

2. All this talk about how the dexxer or any NON stoneform/prot mage can just run away and not have to worry about that slow moving Myst mage ..... doesn't take into consideration that the Myst mage just MAY be planted right where you want to be. For instance a hallway that you need to go through or sitting on the island in Despise.

So this is the real problem, in closed in areas and not in "open field" group v group that you are talking about.

Before this thread gets locked.....

The Devs really need to take some of what was said here into consideration.

Thank you.

make pvp good again.

I sure do hope the Devs take everything into consideration b4 they do anything. Mystics have been in UO for how long now and this is just becoming a problem?

IMHO The reason this is now a problem is that more and more PvMers, the people that do Champ Spawns, have found an affective way to lessen the risk and are now able to keep more of the rewards from the Champ Spawn raiders.

 

[Logrus]

Here's a few more ideas to hopefully get this thread back on track.
After a general damage bump instead of fueled/charged effects on weapons, make it so effects do not launch on specials.
(Specials become more situationally useful rather than constant spam, and damage output on regular hits increase so specials are exactly that "special")
This should cut down on the major issues of 1 hits almost taking people out, (a la axe of heavens dbl strike from AoS launch and similar stuff). This would also allow increase in cap in AI damage so that harder hitting weapons would be see a bit more use as well.

Mirror Images > Ninjitsu determines number of images which can be produced. Stealth/Hiding How far the damage can be transferred.
Stealth/Hiding also offer a chance to transfer the damage from spells.

Backstab -> Bonus damage applied when hitting target in the back.

Ki Attack -> Damage and Mana cost increase the longer its held before hitting. (Of course a cap on this of 2-4 seconds)

Lightning Strike -> Scale hit chance bonus with skill

Counter Attack -> Change to passive buff state not special state. (The actual counter attack when executed would be a regular attack not able to trigger a special move)

Confidence -> Change to scale with parry. (Bushido determines amount to regen, Parry determines the rate)


Evil Omen-> Resistable. Scale effect chance correctly for paralysis.

Field Spells Cause caster to flag on Target. (Ie only who the field hits when its laid down.)

Mind Rot -> Increase effect and scale it.

Pain Spike -> Scale Effect better skill/resist comparrison. Instead of returning after time, change it to regen over time.

Liche Form -> Fix bleed immunity. Add Life Leech to all Spell Damage dealt in liche form.


Now something been tossing back and forth.==========
No longer intteruptible summoning mount or flying.
Still frozen while completing action, but non-interruptible.
Makes dismount less of a death sentence, but at the same time, remounting is dangerous since you are commited for that time.
Also helps to deal with the annoying 1v1 dismount, remount, rundown.
=====================

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Well I think slayer888 invited you to his/her shard to prove you wrong. So are you going to take them up on it and learn what he/she is talking about? Nah, because this is not the real reason you are requesting this so called "PvP Balance" is it.

It sounds like one of your fellow PvPers said it best

So this is the real problem, in closed in areas and not in "open field" group v group that you are talking about.
I sure do hope the Devs take everything into consideration b4 they do anything. Mystics have been in UO for how long now and this is just becoming a problem?

IMHO The reason this is now a problem is that more and more PvMers, the people that do Champ Spawns, have found an affective way to lessen the risk and are now able to keep more of the rewards from the Champ Spawn raiders.

I actually invited him to come to test center first, which he declined. Even though it makes more sense since a dexer doesn't have timing from spells for damage and healing. Also it's free.

Clearly you're a guy that doesn't pvp often and loves stoneform protection, anyone not bias would admit it's out of control. 3 spells rolled into one at that low of a mana cost and casting time is absurd.

Again it's good even in the open field but my guess is you're the type who tries to sneak spawns in and doesn't pvp.

Would you like to fight on test open field and we can see if its good in the open field or not? You can help slayer in this argument by stepping up to the plate.

Sound good?

 

[Lord Frodo]

I actually invited him to come to test center first, which he declined. Even though it makes more sense since a dexer doesn't have timing from spells for damage and healing. Also it's free.

Clearly you're a guy that doesn't pvp often and loves stoneform protection, anyone not bias would admit it's out of control. 3 spells rolled into one at that low of a mana cost and casting time is absurd.

Again it's good even in the open field but my guess is you're the type who tries to sneak spawns in and doesn't pvp.

Would you like to fight on test open field and we can see if its good in the open field or not? You can help slayer in this argument by stepping up to the plate.

Sound good?

LOL Clearly you have no clue as to anything I do in UO or what templates I play, you just assume to know. Just for your info I gave up PvP when all the honorable PvPers left and that was well b4 Power Scrolls and AoS. The reason he stated he could not come to TC was the fact that his/her ping and not as you are trying to make it sound like he/she was scared or something. I have yet to see anything that can not be killed with the exception of "the Dark Lady" herself. It may take a group effort a while to do it but Messana has the only GOD template that I know of that is used regulary. And with that I leave you with this last thought.

I sure do hope the Devs take everything into consideration b4 they do anything. Mystics have been in UO for how long now and this is just becoming a problem?

IMHO The reason this is now a problem is that more and more PvMers, the people that do Champ Spawns, have found an affective way to lessen the risk and are now able to keep more of the rewards from the Champ Spawn raiders.

Never assume that you know anything about anybody.
Have a good day.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I definately think it is possible to balance many issues without nerfing other aspects of the game like Frodo is worried about. As a player I am all for more tactical gameplay, with more options being better. I have enjoyed many of the PvP suggestions from posters like Logrus where more skill based changes are suggested. In Stone Forms case it could be stated that if there were more reliable ways to remove spell effects (not just purge and high cooldown trinkets) you could potentially balance some of the issues with Stone Form. A quick suggestion I posted in the Are 4 second weapons and beyond balanced? | Stratics: A Career Path in Gaming thread was that by adding more ways to "dispell", you could in theory balance this particular issue without hampering non-PvPers use of the spell.

My example was:
Crushing Blow (current) - Also known as the Haymaker, this attack increases the damage done by a weapon reaching its mark by 50%. Additional damage is applied as physical damage.
Crushing Blow (proposed) - Also known as the Haymaker, this attack increases the damage done by a weapon reaching its mark by 50%. Additional damage is applied as physical damage. If your opponent is in Stone Form you crush the enchantment dispelling the effect. (If Stone Form is dispelled in this way the mana cost of Crushing Blow is doubled.)

Now I just want to reiterate that this is just one suggestion and by no means the only way it could be done, just one way out of many where you add more tactical elements and not hurt the spell in PvM etc...