Penalizing Pvpers

[Nails Warstein]

It would be interesting if they could create an elaborate quest where you can be brought before a trial of your peers and/or NPCs at the Court of Truth in order to gain a commuted or deferred sentence, perhaps even probation where you can't attack players in Felucca (PvP areas) for a certain amount of time. Would be a great gold sink idea if you had to pay a fine (amercement) for each murder count. If they did decide to add this feature. It would be great if they did a one time reprieve for all red characters like they did a few years ago.

 

[Picus at the office]

i wasnt around during the fel only days but it seems some have quite a deep rooted animosity for what went
on ''back in the day''.

I played back in the day and was often on the recieving end of the red guys but, IMO, it was the best time that UO ever had.

That said while it would be nice to see a murder count wipe if it happens as I have a few chars on shards that I don't use but if it didn't happen who cares as we can all make another char. If you come to fel you should expect to be killed, often. I would happily be the person to do it, often.

PvP was the thing that made this game and to not try it is missing a great part of the game, I'm sad that people can't see it for the wonderful event it is.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

I know this might seem like an obvious solution, but why don't you just spend the money (if you don't already have one) on a soulstone, make a new character with the same name and looks and all that, and just soulstone your skills over -- even if there's a powerscroll issue, you can fix that with some gold. As for stats, yeah, you'd have to rebuild those, but those move relatively quickly.

I mean, no offense, but... while you think there's no reason for murderers to exist anymore, I don't think removing the restrictions on killing other players without abnandon should be encouraged either. But there are solutions to your dilemma.

 

[Felonious Monk]

The consequences of being red is not being able to use a facet they made less desirable, by choice. Many were perma red way before the introduction of champ spawns.
I love the statement you see very little impact on the average trammie if reds were allowed to enter...... It's not about you.
You suggest making reds freely attackable in tram. They are already are freely attackable in areas where pvp is alloweded. That would be fel and NO ONE is going there to do so.
What does that tell you? Fel is as dead as it is for a reason.
Make chr on siege
Make a blue
I think your statement murder counts are fine gave the best chuckle of all.
Fine for whom exactly?

 

[Lord Frodo]

Little boy whines "Mommy please let me bring my RED PKer to trammie land so I can kill BLUE PVMers at EM Events."
Mommy "Sorry you were a bad little boy so stop your whinning, you are not going to get to go to Trammie land to kill sheep."
Little boy goes to his room and pouts. Whaaa I don't get to go to Trammie land to kill sheep. Whaaa why have all the sheep left Fel.

 

[Viper09]

Little boy whines "Mommy please let me bring my RED PKer to trammie land so I can kill BLUE PVMers at EM Events."
Mommy "Sorry you were a bad little boy so stop your whinning, you are not going to get to go to Trammie land to kill sheep."
Little boy goes to his room and pouts. Whaaa I don't get to go to Trammie land to kill sheep. Whaaa why have all the sheep left Fel.

...when and where did anyone say if reds were allowed into tram that would mean they could pk people there?
I will save you the time, nowhere. The proposition was simple, reds being able to enter tram and they would obviously be under the same restrictions as everyone else.

 

[Felonious Monk]

It would be interesting if they could create an elaborate quest where you can be brought before a trial of your peers and/or NPCs at the Court of Truth in order to gain a commuted or deferred sentence, perhaps even probation where you can't attack players in Felucca (PvP areas) for a certain amount of time. Would be a great gold sink idea if you had to pay a fine (amercement) for each murder count. If they did decide to add this feature. It would be great if they did a one time reprieve for all red characters like they did a few years ago.

Murderers brought into a court of justice and sent to trial would normally be......murdered as a result of a verdict as to what the jury finds.
In this game that would the delete button. Its next to the create chr button when you log in.
Your suggestion shows imagination but suggests a corrupt court.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Ah the personal attacks are starting up again.
Reason is lost. The ability to articulate forgone.
Too bad this could be a good topic for those willing to stay focused

 

[Merus]

The consequences of being red is not being able to use a facet they made less desirable, by choice. Many were perma red way before the introduction of champ spawns.
I love the statement you see very little impact on the average trammie if reds were allowed to enter...... It's not about you.
You suggest making reds freely attackable in tram. They are already are freely attackable in areas where pvp is alloweded. That would be fel and NO ONE is going there to do so.
What does that tell you? Fel is as dead as it is for a reason.
Make chr on siege
Make a blue
I think your statement murder counts are fine gave the best chuckle of all.
Fine for whom exactly?

My statement regarding murder counts are fine was intended to imply that I think they should still exist if you kill an innocent.

My statement regarding reds in tram not affecting people other than those who have elected O/C stands. If I am red to you in fel, but blue to you in tram and I can not attack you and you can not attack me, it does nothing to affect your game play. It just doesn't.

No one is asking that anyone who does not want to pvp be forced to, what reds are asking for is the option to pvp on any facet that the O/C pvp is enabled. Truth be told, if a trammie joins O/C he would never even know the other character was red... He would be orange!

To your other comments regarding my character status... I have characters on seige, 4 of them. And out of 4 accounts with fully developed characters on 4 or 5 shards I have 1 red character. My position stands because I believe it is what makes the most sense for those who elect to pvp.

 

[Merus]

I know this might seem like an obvious solution, but why don't you just spend the money (if you don't already have one) on a soulstone, make a new character with the same name and looks and all that, and just soulstone your skills over -- even if there's a powerscroll issue, you can fix that with some gold. As for stats, yeah, you'd have to rebuild those, but those move relatively quickly.

I mean, no offense, but... while you think there's no reason for murderers to exist anymore, I don't think removing the restrictions on killing other players without abnandon should be encouraged either. But there are solutions to your dilemma.

I can not speak for anyone but me, but my red character was the first character I created in UO back in 1998. On my main shard I have 17 other blue characters, some with an almost identical template. But I will not delete my red simply because he was my original character. Further more, most of his murder counts were from back in 1998 - 2003, before I took a 7 year break from UO. I don't want to kill trammies in tram with him, I don't want to PvM in tram with him, but if they expand O/C or factions into the tram facet I would like to be able to pvp against those people with him. I think that is all anyone in this discussion is asking for.

 

[Lord Frodo]

...when and where did anyone say if reds were allowed into tram that would mean they could pk people there?
I will save you the time, nowhere. The proposition was simple, reds being able to enter tram and they would obviously be under the same restrictions as everyone else.

So you don't want to come to trammie land and PK all the Blue PVMers that are in Chaos/Order set up for an EM Event. Then I guess there is no reason for you even wanting to come here.

 

[Viper09]

So you don't want to come to trammie land and PK all the Blue PVMers that are in Chaos/Order set up for an EM Event. Then I guess there is no reason for you even wanting to come here.

Why would anyone put a PvMer in O/C?
Also all you said in your post was that those arguing for access just wanted to come to Tram to pk innocent players. You need to be more clear in your argument unless all you want to do is troll and attack which is exactly what your initial post looked like.

The request was that so reds could also PvP other O/C members in tram. Also it wouldn't only take a red in O/C to ruin any event for other O/C players who are attending but anyone from the opposing team, so your point is moot.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Why would anyone put a PvMer in O/C?
Many players that live and play in Tram have 0 reds and 0 experience in pvp in which case its the only choice they have is to crew up with what they have and gain experience in O/C. I look at the re-intro of O/C as a massive opportunity for trammies to take a shot at a different style of play. In Fel
In ways I don't even see O/C as a pvp adjustment it's waaaay bigger than that.

Cheers.......

 

[Viper09]

Why would anyone put a PvMer in O/C?
Many players that live and play in Tram have 0 reds and 0 experience in pvp in which case its the only choice they have is to crew up with what they have and gain experience in O/C. I look at the re-intro of O/C as a massive opportunity for trammies to take a shot at a different style of play. In Fel
In ways I don't even see O/C as a pvp adjustment it's waaaay bigger than that.

Cheers.......

That is a good response. I guess I haven't looked at this as a better way to introduce PvP to those with little to no experience.

 

[Merus]

Why would anyone put a PvMer in O/C?
Also all you said in your post was that those arguing for access just wanted to come to Tram to pk innocent players. You need to be more clear in your argument unless all you want to do is troll and attack which is exactly what your initial post looked like.

The request was that so reds could also PvP other O/C members in tram. Also it wouldn't only take a red in O/C to ruin any event for other O/C players who are attending but anyone from the opposing team, so your point is moot.

I have to agree with Viper. If O/C replaces factions and gets expanded to all facets, it is still going to be very pvp oriented. There are plenty of very experienced pvpers in factions that are blue. Even with the restictions on reds remaining in Fel you better be ready to fight if you join O/C.

I like to pvp as much as the next pvper, but there are several of my characters I would not put in O/C because they are built for PvM and would be a sitting duck. The same philosophy should be used by anyone considering joining O/C.

Viper also makes a valid point that if pvp is enabled on all facets, not letting the fel reds in will not reduce the fighting. If you don't want to pvp, everyone would still have that option... But I wouldn't put a PvM character in O/C.

 

[Lord Frodo]

We are talking Chaos/Order
So you all want to bring your RED PvPer to Tram and PvP others Reds, you can stay in Fel and do that.
So you all want to bring your RED PvPer to Tram and PvP others Blues, if they are in Chaos/Order then they should be hunting you in Fel.
Sorry but most of us were not born yesterday. The OP and the rest that support this want to come to Tram and PK Blue chars that are in Chaos/Order. Please show me a Blue PvPer, there are none. There may be wannbees but PvP = red. Sorry IMHO all this is about is wanting to bring your Red PvPer/Pker to Tram so you can kill some Blue Sheep.

 

[Felonious Monk]

That in mind keeping reds in fel will give trammies the security of having somewhere to go and not worry about being attacked at all. In my opinion that's why tram was created. We need to keep the timer in. If a blue flag attacks a red the attacker cant recall and bail out if they find their in over their head. Which supports the "if you come to fel you consent to this rule set" aspect.

 

[Merus]

Why would anyone put a PvMer in O/C?
Many players that live and play in Tram have 0 reds and 0 experience in pvp in which case its the only choice they have is to crew up with what they have and gain experience in O/C. I look at the re-intro of O/C as a massive opportunity for trammies to take a shot at a different style of play. In Fel
In ways I don't even see O/C as a pvp adjustment it's waaaay bigger than that.

Cheers.......

When/if this gets closer to reality we already have a system in place for the inexperienced to try out pvp with no risk... The arenas are great for a little friendly practice.

 

[Merus]

We are talking Chaos/Order
So you all want to bring your RED PvPer to Tram and PvP others Reds, you can stay in Fel and do that.
So you all want to bring your RED PvPer to Tram and PvP others Blues, if they are in Chaos/Order then they should be hunting you in Fel.
Sorry but most of us were not born yesterday. The OP and the rest that support this want to come to Tram and PK Blue chars that are in Chaos/Order. Please show me a Blue PvPer, there are none. There may be wannbees but PvP = red. Sorry IMHO all this is about is wanting to bring your Red PvPer/Pker to Tram so you can kill some Blue Sheep.

This post make no sense to me. You won't be blue once you join O/C... You will be orange... And anyone else that is orange will be able to kill you regardless of facet. If you put a "sheep" in O/C you think he isn't going to get killed? Do you understand what O/C is? It's pvp! And your assumption that most who have reds don't also have a blue that can pvp just as well is WAY off base. For the most part you will be fighting the same people whether they bring a red from fel or a blue.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Good point Merus.
Some contend that watching how a perma red hands you your head would teach you how to counter those tactics better than an arena against another trammie.
The Arenas would be a perfect venue to gain some experience but only against a worthy foe.

 

[Viper09]

Well put Merus. In O/C there is no such thing as an innocent. Anything in O/C is consensual PvP much like guild wars. When one joins it you are acknowledging that you can be attacked wherever you are in the open.

 

[Viper09]

On the topic of introducing PvP to the inexperienced, I wouldn't suggest O/C right away. What guilds I was in did in the past is simply war another guild who you are good friends with. You get experience in PvP but are not scared of encountering a stranger who is an expert in PvP that wont show you any mercy.

 

[ablackninja]

I have recently quit playing UO.. most likely for good, however I felt I should comment on the reason for quitting a game I played for quite a long time. STOP PENALIZING PVP.

I played UO to pvp.. that's all I ever did in UO, I never got to play 95% of the game because I pvp. The day I started UO until the day I quit I played in Fel. All of my toons are red, with 100+ counts on my "youngest" . I'm not bragging or what ever, i'm just stating the facts. 99% of people would not have an account like this, I however do. I also understand and understood at the time, the rules of being a pvper. At the time I made this decision finding people to fight was not hard. Things change however...

I emailed, called and in general just bitched to EA/Bioware whoever it is that takes my money, to see if I could PAY MONEY to turn my main character blue so that I could PLAY THE TRAMMEL CONTENT IVE BEEN PAYING AND UPDATING FOR YEARS! I was told we do not offer that service. I considered making a T hunter and farming pardons, but that could take years, and my main red has tons of counts. I want to try pvming, I want to tame pets, check out tokuno islands, malas, the abyss etc.

There is no reason to penalize pvp these days. I don't see why a "red" can't get turned into a "blue" and applied a fake name tag (think theif disguise kit) and be allowed to enter trammel. No one knows who this "murderer" is, the said "murderer" gets to play the game.

I am curious if anyone still feels that pvp/pking results in extreme amounts of frustration and a general feeling of not wanting to play uo? I havn't had someone's suit drop in years. Hell, I havn't found any "non" pvpers in fel in the past few years. The worst case is you do happen to loose all your gear, you can go imbue a new suit in what an hour? Then with faction gear the lose is even less significant, and you have a 20 minute time out to replace it. The 120 scroll thing is dead to me, but lets say that is still the number one arguement... there are so many EMPTY servers that you could almost pick a server and go farm scrolls without being bothered. I think trying to hold the 120s over the reds is wayy past dead at this point.

SO really what are we penalizing pvpers for? Because I prefer my opponent to be the smartest most intelligent opponent I can find in a game I an penalized? I have given up on attempting to get my account changed. I just feel very strongly about this and it is the reason I have moved on to new games. Penalizing people for fighting each other is needed when it results in harrasment and griefing. The way UO is now the reason for penalizing pvp is due to not giving a ****/lazyness or not knowing how to. Either way it's not worth my time or my money.

Well I for one think you made the right decision by leaving the game, trammel and all those other facets offer nothing at all. With the implementation of insurance trammel should have been deleted. I myself cannot wait until Richard Garriot makes another sandbox where you actually worry about dying.

 

[GreywolfUK]

Not read the whole thread but, I get he impression like a lot of people here, that the OP is a little upset that he/she is not getting everything on a silver platter, well NEWSFLASH nothing is for free in this game or in life, we all have to pay the price for our choices. You and you alone chose to make everyone of your characters red, no one forced you or twisted your arm to do this.

I personally have no problem with Reds in the Tram rule-set lands, as long as they understand that there is NO pk'ing of the poor "innocent" blues, if such a thing really exists these days, or causing their deaths by other means, and could even be a used in a way of redemption for past crimes, i.e. helping people in tram lands goes towards reducing counts, resisting the urge to murder or try and murder everyone that crosses their paths, for every good act, it counts towards reducing their criminal record, but it should not be an instant/fast reduction, should be done over time. In this way it allows Red chars to access Tram rule-set lands and also allow people that have never set foot in Fel to meet these big bad scary people that are red, who knows it might even introduce others that have never felt like or have been scared off by the stories of mass murderers that wait at every turn in Fel, to actually go there, especially if said reds and blues mix more.

On the topic of O/C this was one of the big mistakes the gods of UO made in its removal, and would love to see this make a come back, used to love O/C and hunting the chaos dogs .

 

[Petra Fyde]

There is a vast difference between playing a PK and having 7 red characters on one account. To enjoy the full content of the game the OP needs only to make one of those 7 characters blue, which can be accomplished by gathering the relevant scrolls, stoning the character's skills, emptying his bank box then deleting and re-making the character.
I have known, and played with, numerous red characters over the years. They always had at least one blue for shopping and more usually another for pvm.

 

[GreywolfUK]

There is a vast difference between playing a PK and having 7 red characters on one account. To enjoy the full content of the game the OP needs only to make one of those 7 characters blue, which can be accomplished by gathering the relevant scrolls, stoning the character's skills, emptying his bank box then deleting and re-making the character.
I have known, and played with, numerous red characters over the years. They always had at least one blue for shopping and more usually another for pvm.

I have to agree with you Petra, in all the years I have played, I have never known anyone to deliberately make every character red, that in a word is just stupid, even way back when I first started I always had my blues, for stocking up on things, or just trying something different for a change.

 

[gunneroforgin]

My only suggesstion is to get a hold a some forged pardons and burn a few counts off of the chosen character you wish to use in Trammel events. It will take some time but you will eventually get to play in Trammel again.

 

[Cupid]

Whilst I suck at pvp but have craploads of fun when I do it on the rare occasions such as the recent house drop night, I see no reason a red cant go to tram and just lack the ability to kill other players.

 

[cazador]

I have a account with all reds..and that my main account I sacrifice plenty to use that account but with UO being as dead as it is I do all my PvM in fel..I just recently activated an old account with some blues on it so I can try the abyss and some of the trammel sides of the game but it's not nearly as rewarding or fun..being red in its own regard is rewarding you can kill anything with an E-pulse..going to tram would be cool but not a need to have for me I like the fel side of the game for as I don't play often and when I do I much prefer the challenge of an opponent with a brain it's a more intense challenge..plus I have no need for gold anymore we had spawns that was our main income for many years..not as much anymore due to dying population but regardless Noto PK forever! You can keep tram all blue and safe..we have the Original lands


Edit: after a little through the thread I do agree on one aspect..there should be an item in the UO store for a full pardon of over 1000 counts

 

[Ashlynn_L]

I've always thought the red-blue system was redundant since the introduction of Trammel which is in effect a sort of PvP switch, just implemented in a different way.

 

[Felonious Monk]

I've always thought the red-blue system was redundant since the introduction of Trammel which is in effect a sort of PvP switch, just implemented in a different way.

a VERY different way.
So many differences you could read the rest of the thread to see what they are.

 

[Ludes]

Perhaps you should step up your PvP game to the next notch.
Try dueling in an arena with no armour and only NPC weapons. No bandys no magic..
Short fight but much harder!

Don't forget.. it's not honorable to fight someone you have a clear advantage over.. try dueling evenly, only using skills.

 

[Merus]

Perhaps you should step up your PvP game to the next notch.
Try dueling in an arena with no armour and only NPC weapons. No bandys no magic..
Short fight but much harder!

Don't forget.. it's not honorable to fight someone you have a clear advantage over.. try dueling evenly, only using skills.

A guild I was in a couple years back had a "fight night" a couple times a month in an arena on the roof of one of our houses. Occasionally we would have old school rules which meant only GM made armor weapons with no additional mods, Mages had to use regs, etc. Those fights were some of the most fun!

 

[Joey Porter]

Perhaps you should step up your PvP game to the next notch.
Try dueling in an arena with no armour and only NPC weapons. No bandys no magic..
Short fight but much harder!

Don't forget.. it's not honorable to fight someone you have a clear advantage over.. try dueling evenly, only using skills.

While I agree with this I do not think it applies to PK's or Reds. They are no honorable characters by the nature of there characters. If we are RPing they are "bad" guys.

 

[Smurcoch]

Just let reds go to Tram. It harms no one, and with the limited population on almost every shard it helps everyone.

While we are on the subject lets let faction reds be healed in GZ with out getting their team mates guard wacked.

I have 3 mages, a necro, mystic, and a SDI mage. 2 of those 3 are red and my 3rd has been red several times and I have had to burn off numerous counts to keep him blue.

It is extremely frustrating to go scout champ spawns on a blue faction character, in hopes of finding a faction fight, but instead you find some blues doing the spawn. So I have to run out, wait 2 mins to time out, switch a few pieces of my suit around, change chars, and go back to the spawn, hopefully in time. Just so I can try and get a fight.


LAME!!!!!!!!

I love this post...

It's Lame because he has to run home and change into a pk'er to try to steal someone else's hard work at a spawn.

What I think is lame, is you hunting Fel in a blue character...You want the reward of stealing spawns, grow a pair and hunt with your red.

 

[Tzadkiel]

Unfortunately, PvP has been reduced to how many scripts/speeders/and whatnot you have running in the background. Little skill is required anymore. I get it. The thing I find humorous is the fact that the biggest mouthpieces tend to be the ones who rely only on these items to succeed. Then boast their mad skills when they "pwn" someone's face. Smack talk is half the battle though right? Anyhow back to the OP's comment. If a Red has numerous counts, I don't see why a scroll or potion can't be created to wipe the counts. This could be something similar to the immediate pet bonding potion featured on the origin store. I smell opportunity....or wait did I step in something?

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I love this post...

It's Lame because he has to run home and change into a pk'er to try to steal someone else's hard work at a spawn.

What I think is lame, is you hunting Fel in a blue character...You want the reward of stealing spawns, grow a pair and hunt with your red.

There are only 2 reasons for your comment.

A. You don't understand factions

B. You didn't read my post at all.

I am going to ASSUME you read my post before you made your comment, so let me try and explain a little bit about factions.

IT IS PLAIN IGNORANT to have a red character in factions. Because a lot of faction fighting happens in guard zones if you are red and in factions you can not get cross heals from your guild.

On nights that faction guilds are active I scout spawns on my BLUE FACTION mage in hopes of finding a FACTION fight. Sometimes I find a faction fight. Sometimes I find a blue guild doing a spawn so I switch to my "nasty red character who has no morals or ethics" to raid the blue spawn.

Now it also works in reverse. There are times when I am scouting on my "nasty red character who has no morals or ethics" and find a faction fight, so I run out on my red, wait 2 mins to time out, and come back on my faction character.

Maybe you should try and understand the different types of PvP and why it is possible to have multiple reds before making posts like yours.

 

[Eärendil]

You might go and kill each other, folks - but leave me alone with my shop, my plants, my deco-stuff, my occasional (trammel-)monster-hunt, with banksitting, chatting and crafting. I´m not interested in PVP and I dislike PKs. I left in those "glorious" days, because I hated the aggression everywhere - and I came back to a nice, peaceful and hobbit-like Trammel, which is my home now. Here I can live and eat 3 breakfasts and nobody threatens my life. And I like the way UO it is now with a seperated zone for the bloodthirsty people and a safe zone for us peaceful townsfolk - I will never have a PVP-char, nor a Red/PK. And the quiet and joyful time I have now is much nicer than the time I had in those chaotic first years.

 

[Eärendil]

...but with regard to the OP I really think you should be able to get your count cleared and to enter Trammel then

 

[Lord Frodo]

You might go and kill each other, folks - but leave me alone with my shop, my plants, my deco-stuff, my occasional (trammel-)monster-hunt, with banksitting, chatting and crafting. I´m not interested in PVP and I dislike PKs. I left in those "glorious" days, because I hated the aggression everywhere - and I came back to a nice, peaceful and hobbit-like Trammel, which is my home now. Here I can live and eat 3 breakfasts and nobody threatens my life. And I like the way UO it is now with a seperated zone for the bloodthirsty people and a safe zone for us peaceful townsfolk - I will never have a PVP-char, nor a Red/PK. And the quiet and joyful time I have now is much nicer than the time I had in those chaotic first years.

Yea for the HOBBITS

 

[Petra Fyde]

Posts naming unapproved 3rd party programs have been removed. Please remember that naming these programs is a breach of our rules of conduct.

 

[cazador]

Posts naming unapproved 3rd party programs have been removed. Please remember that naming these programs is a breach of our rules of conduct.

well hopefully ole Messana come thru with the vendor search that would eliminate one

 

[Smurcoch]

There are only 2 reasons for your comment.

A. You don't understand factions

B. You didn't read my post at all.

I am going to ASSUME you read my post before you made your comment, so let me try and explain a little bit about factions.

IT IS PLAIN IGNORANT to have a red character in factions. Because a lot of faction fighting happens in guard zones if you are red and in factions you can not get cross heals from your guild.

On nights that faction guilds are active I scout spawns on my BLUE FACTION mage in hopes of finding a FACTION fight. Sometimes I find a faction fight. Sometimes I find a blue guild doing a spawn so I switch to my "nasty red character who has no morals or ethics" to raid the blue spawn.

Now it also works in reverse. There are times when I am scouting on my "nasty red character who has no morals or ethics" and find a faction fight, so I run out on my red, wait 2 mins to time out, and come back on my faction character.

Maybe you should try and understand the different types of PvP and why it is possible to have multiple reds before making posts like yours.

A) I was in factions long before the gear was any good, and yes, I do understand the purpose of factions.

B) I read your post, and I still find it laughable.

You pride your self as a pvp'er and someone that raids spawns. So, instead of raiding and scouting out raids on your red, you choose to do it on your blue, most likely for various reasons. Perhaps you want to loot a corpse, turn yourself grey, and let the other person, that is actually doing the work, ev's attack you, so you can freely attack them without taking a murder count. Perhaps you just want to stand around, do nothing till the champ pops out, then call in your other pals to help you steal it from someone.

Regardless of the reasons, if you are unwilling to scout for spawns and kills on your red character, then you are laughable.

As for the group fights, and not being able to heal a red in towns and such, I completely understand this, and think it should not be a criminal act worthy of getting guard wacked, however, you should turn Grey. You are a murderous accomplish, why would you not be freely attackable. If you can't fight a group fight as a red or a grey because of your lack of skill, go back to the zerg pvp that UO has so come used to.

 

[Flutter]

There have been a couple of general pardons through the years. I can think of two offhand where you could log on and have your counts erased. I vaguely remember once they didn't even give you a choice, everyone's counts were just erased.

I haven't read the entire thread. These days it's so easy to recreate a character I'm not sure what the complaint is about.
I had to scroll back up and make sure this post wasn't bumped from an old 2004 discussion or something. Making a new character for someone who's played a pvper is easier than all the trouble you seem to have gone through to "get your account changed". Soulstones are even vet rewards now. If you pvp at all you have powerscrolls coming out of your asp. Working the skills up generally takes a day or two. Even less now with the mega-advanced-character-token-of-Godliness.
So... this thread was just started as a troll right? Right?

 

[Martell]

Posts naming unapproved 3rd party programs have been removed. Please remember that naming these programs is a breach of our rules of conduct.

The previously mentioned third part program no longer worked on prodo shards just FYI, just so in the future there's no need to delete posts which I personally think could've been useful in dispelling some myths of current PVP.

 

[Tzadkiel]

I think I may have screwed up as my post got kilt. Unintended, sorry Petra. Guess I will bow out of this convo. Sorry Martell, enjoyed the talk man. I forgot how fun moderating can be.

PS: If I close my eyes it never happened right? Just a thought.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

A) I was in factions long before the gear was any good, and yes, I do understand the purpose of factions.

B) I read your post, and I still find it laughable.

You pride your self as a pvp'er and someone that raids spawns. So, instead of raiding and scouting out raids on your red, you choose to do it on your blue, most likely for various reasons. Perhaps you want to loot a corpse, turn yourself grey, and let the other person, that is actually doing the work, ev's attack you, so you can freely attack them without taking a murder count. Perhaps you just want to stand around, do nothing till the champ pops out, then call in your other pals to help you steal it from someone.

Regardless of the reasons, if you are unwilling to scout for spawns and kills on your red character, then you are laughable.

As for the group fights, and not being able to heal a red in towns and such, I completely understand this, and think it should not be a criminal act worthy of getting guard wacked, however, you should turn Grey. You are a murderous accomplish, why would you not be freely attackable. If you can't fight a group fight as a red or a grey because of your lack of skill, go back to the zerg pvp that UO has so come used to.

ok one last time and maybe it will get into your head.

MY ONLY BLUE PVPER IS A FACTION CHARACTER. THE ONLY REASON I SCOUT ON MY BLUE IS TO LOOK FOR FACTION FIGHTS.

THEREFORE IF THERE ARE NON FACTION PLAYERS DOING A SPAWN I HAVE TO RUN OUT SWITCH TO MY RED AND RUN BACK.

NORMALLY I SCOUT ON MY RED UNLESS FACTION PLAYERS HAVE BEEN ACTIVE THAT NIGHT. THEN I SCOUT ON MY BLUE FACTION CHARACTER IN HOPE OF FINDING A FACTION FIGHT.

Nowadays noone is a NOTO PK, where they turn grey in hopes of getting a flag so they can kill and get a count.

is that clear enough?

 

[Tzadkiel]

There have been a couple of general pardons through the years. I can think of two offhand where you could log on and have your counts erased. I vaguely remember once they didn't even give you a choice, everyone's counts were just erased.

I haven't read the entire thread. These days it's so easy to recreate a character I'm not sure what the complaint is about.
I had to scroll back up and make sure this post wasn't bumped from an old 2004 discussion or something. Making a new character for someone who's played a pvper is easier than all the trouble you seem to have gone through to "get your account changed". Soulstones are even vet rewards now. If you pvp at all you have powerscrolls coming out of your asp. Working the skills up generally takes a day or two. Even less now with the mega-advanced-character-token-of-Godliness.
So... this thread was just started as a troll right? Right?

I will bend to the OP and guess the intent was not a full on troll. I do think the question was directed about wiping a large quantity of counts. (hence the potion of uber count wipey-ness suggestion) Your point was well met though. I guess it begs to ask, does he/she have a spare character spot to re-roll? Would he/she miss that character if it were deleted and a fresh char started? Pardons are what I use when I need to return to the land of azul.

 

[Smurcoch]

ok one last time and maybe it will get into your head.

MY ONLY BLUE PVPER IS A FACTION CHARACTER. THE ONLY REASON I SCOUT ON MY BLUE IS TO LOOK FOR FACTION FIGHTS.

THEREFORE IF THERE ARE NON FACTION PLAYERS DOING A SPAWN I HAVE TO RUN OUT SWITCH TO MY RED AND RUN BACK.

NORMALLY I SCOUT ON MY RED UNLESS FACTION PLAYERS HAVE BEEN ACTIVE THAT NIGHT. THEN I SCOUT ON MY BLUE FACTION CHARACTER IN HOPE OF FINDING A FACTION FIGHT.

Nowadays noone is a NOTO PK, where they turn grey in hopes of getting a flag so they can kill and get a count.

is that clear enough?

There is no need to yell.

I understand what you are saying, but really, unless you are fighting in town, or in gaurd zones, There is no benefit to fighting on a blue faction player, or a red one.

With you searching spawns in hopes of a faction fight, you can accomplish the exact same thing on your red, as there are no gaurd zones in champ spawns.

As for the NTOTPK, the whole point of turning grey, and then letting the other be the aggressive on you is to not get a count when you kill them.

When searching for spawners, and looking for the fight, search on your red so if there is a non faction player, then you can insta kill them and not have to worry about the 2 min timer.

Chances are, if someone is trying to sneak in a spawn, and they see your blue char run by, they likely are not going to wait around for your red char and likely a couple friends to come back and kill them.

I know if I was sneaking spawns in, and someone saw me, or I saw that ghost watching me, I just left the spawn, and went somewhere else.

Why would I work to pop the champ just for you to come kill me, and my champo and get all the scrolls yourself?

I'm just saying. I have red characters, and blue characters, and if I am out and about looking for a fight, or to steal spawns, I'm doing it on my red char. If I'm in town gaurding the base and trying to capture towns, I'm doing it on my blue char.

 

[Tiea]

Working a chars skills for years, diffrent times back then with diffrent maps and rules, Why not set an "Add to Cart" button at the store to merely remove "said amount" of murder counts "PER" account, not char? I mean if you really think about it, when I played so long ago...there was No Trammel, no choices at all. Now they created a Tram, these people have a choice now but back then there were no choices. Why lose all that work or have to get a soulstone or any of the other recomendations, new choices were implemented for the newer, why not yet another "new" implement. Just sayin....