Penalizing Pvpers

[icm420]

I have recently quit playing UO.. most likely for good, however I felt I should comment on the reason for quitting a game I played for quite a long time. STOP PENALIZING PVP.

I played UO to pvp.. that's all I ever did in UO, I never got to play 95% of the game because I pvp. The day I started UO until the day I quit I played in Fel. All of my toons are red, with 100+ counts on my "youngest" . I'm not bragging or what ever, i'm just stating the facts. 99% of people would not have an account like this, I however do. I also understand and understood at the time, the rules of being a pvper. At the time I made this decision finding people to fight was not hard. Things change however...

I emailed, called and in general just bitched to EA/Bioware whoever it is that takes my money, to see if I could PAY MONEY to turn my main character blue so that I could PLAY THE TRAMMEL CONTENT IVE BEEN PAYING AND UPDATING FOR YEARS! I was told we do not offer that service. I considered making a T hunter and farming pardons, but that could take years, and my main red has tons of counts. I want to try pvming, I want to tame pets, check out tokuno islands, malas, the abyss etc.

There is no reason to penalize pvp these days. I don't see why a "red" can't get turned into a "blue" and applied a fake name tag (think theif disguise kit) and be allowed to enter trammel. No one knows who this "murderer" is, the said "murderer" gets to play the game.

I am curious if anyone still feels that pvp/pking results in extreme amounts of frustration and a general feeling of not wanting to play uo? I havn't had someone's suit drop in years. Hell, I havn't found any "non" pvpers in fel in the past few years. The worst case is you do happen to loose all your gear, you can go imbue a new suit in what an hour? Then with faction gear the lose is even less significant, and you have a 20 minute time out to replace it. The 120 scroll thing is dead to me, but lets say that is still the number one arguement... there are so many EMPTY servers that you could almost pick a server and go farm scrolls without being bothered. I think trying to hold the 120s over the reds is wayy past dead at this point.

SO really what are we penalizing pvpers for? Because I prefer my opponent to be the smartest most intelligent opponent I can find in a game I an penalized? I have given up on attempting to get my account changed. I just feel very strongly about this and it is the reason I have moved on to new games. Penalizing people for fighting each other is needed when it results in harrasment and griefing. The way UO is now the reason for penalizing pvp is due to not giving a ****/lazyness or not knowing how to. Either way it's not worth my time or my money.

 

[Gushy Shorty]

I agree totally!!! PvP has been slowly dyeing. Why couldn't they set an amount, $10, $15 or even $20 which would benefit the player and EA/Bioware, to change "one" character per account from red back to blue. Set a tag on the account so if that player were to try it again the EA/Bioware would know it has been done already. Not being able to play new expansions that were implemented on Trammel side is a downside but the bigger downside to a PvPer is no new expansion or content for them to do on the Felucca side. I am not a PvPer but I think this guy has a valid point and EA/Bioware should seriously consider this to be implemented in. It may even bring so many that have left back to the game.

Please and Thank You,
Gushy Shorty

 

[Mook Chessy]

Can I have your stuff...I'm red too!

 

[icm420]

Find my house and you can have everything in it when it drops! LOL Goodluck tho is a few people who already can get in so they may have the advantage on yah! Look for Old Money owned by Juicy I'll give yah a hint.. it's in the woods!

Seriously tho I'm not gonna make a new account to play when I have multiple completed characters! Just the wrong color.. to play.. 98% of UO..

 

[Gushy Shorty]

I hate to see anyone leave due to something like this, something that could be resolved easily and benificial to all parties involved. I am sure you will be missed and hopefully one day you may return to grace us all with your presence and your "An Ex Por, Vas Ort Flam, Kal Vas Flam and In Sar."
You will never know the above unless you experience it first hand!!!

 

[Lady Bleez]

My husband found himself in a similar situation when we returned. He just soulstoned his skills, deleted a character and then made a new one. Had to work the stats up but that really isn't that hard and as you pointed out, scrolls are easy enough.

 

[blinkdog]

Let's be serious: There's no real reason for red status to even exist in 2012. It's not like it's 1998 and PKs are raiding an RP wedding.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I agree totally!!!

same here, except since i Don't PVP, i think many dismissed mine into the trash. What you'll get is:
YOU chose to go red.
YOU knew the consequences.
It's all YOU.
if you decide to change back, character deletion is about your only option.
maybe in the future, as more bring this issue to the surface, the devs will provide an alternative that fits in the plans of those who don't want to give you an out - yeah, like that's gonna happen. i do know that once you're at the char deletion stage, account deletion follows much easier.
on your side, hope you get some relief

 

[Uriah Heep]

And this, kiddies, is why you shouldn't make ALL your chars reds...duh

 

[weins201]

D.L.T.D.H.Y.O.T.A.

 

[Gushy Shorty]

And this, kiddies, is why you shouldn't make ALL your chars reds...duh

When you were a young one I am sure you enjoyed or did not enjoy something but as you grew up, asumeing you have, you lost intrest or gained intrest in new things. This is the same thing, he enjoyed it and now wishes to try something new. Only diffrence is he pays monthly and this option should be concidered to the "reds" out there who have played for years or even less.

 

[Gushy Shorty]

D.L.T.D.H.Y.O.T.A.

Ummm Whats that stand for? lol

 

[Felonious Monk]

dont let the door hit you in the axe

 

[Felonious Monk]

While he chose to go red. I feel fel has been Trammelized in a massive fashion that few would have guessed. Imagine bragging about having more counts than your friends and working hard to keep it that way. Going "perma" was the thing.
EA pulled a major U turn on the Fel ruleset. Considering how peeps are drawn to murder each other in so many games across the board I'm surprised Fel has been left in the state that it is.

 

[greenwolf]

Honestly what are you complaining about?. The fact that your red and can't go to tram, transfer off your red to another shard and make a blue in its place simple as that. This should have come across to you as an ultimatum when you were supposedly thinking about making a T-Hunter. Then again i could be mistaken, were you complaining about Fel not having any new content added, who needs new land to kill people on makes absolutely no sense. Majority of this so called PVP occurs at Yew Gate even on TC, there is no need to go anywhere else. Even if you were to bring up Champ Spawns, like you said there's a bunch of shards you can pick from and not be bothered.

 

[flappy6]

you have issues if thats all you like to do is kill,fighting is fun but you are a killer! got get some help!

 

[icm420]

Honestly what are you complaining about?. The fact that your red and can't go to tram, transfer off your red to another shard and make a blue in its place simple as that. This should have come across to you as an ultimatum when you were supposedly thinking about making a T-Hunter. Then again i could be mistaken, were you complaining about Fel not having any new content added, who needs new land to kill people on makes absolutely no sense. Majority of this so called PVP occurs at Yew Gate even on TC, there is no need to go anywhere else. Even if you were to bring up Champ Spawns, like you said there's a bunch of shards you can pick from and not be bothered.

You are missing the point. Yes I can xfer off and make a new char. Yes I have stacks of 120 scrolls. Yes I have the gold. Yes I have the tokens. Why is it that I am penalized for pvping is what I am asking? Years ago it was a big deal. Pking at an RP wedding .. that doesn't happen anymore... ever... So what's the big deal? Why can't I play my favorite characters, with my favorite suits, favorite names, favorite pets? I have spent years playing these guys and so my fix is to delete them or xfer them so they can sit and rot? How is that a fix? I could also farm thousands of pardons... btw such a cute idea but really? Farm thousands of pardons?

So perhaps I am asking the wrong question here, but really what is the big deal about letting someone who has "murdered" people come hang out in trammy candy land and show off my "uber" imbued suit that is the same as everyone elses? Why can't said murderer participate in events and new content? I don't get it, but hey what ever I just wanna bring it to peoples attention. Penalizing pvp is not cool. Pvp is one of the most unique and interesting parts of this game. The magery/casting system is amazing. So why penalize people for participating in it? The faction system is a way to promote and encourage non red pvp. So why then am I still red? I really don't get murder counts anymore because of faction.

OH right I played when murder counts existed! Also when bugs existed that resulted in a choice... murder count or hours of time spent lost? Which would you choose? Obvious isn't it?

If you wanna be a smart ass about it go ahead, but don't misunderstand me I'm not trying to get my way. I'm done with OSI UO. I can play better servers, with better people and better staff for FREE. I just think its pretty ridiculous that such systems still exist, especially when pvp is an exceptionally attractive and intricate part of UO, and I just want to see if I am the only one who feels this way.


PS:
As this is the last time I will be responding on here I just wanna say that I am not asking for PVP in trammel. Do not misunderstand that either. I am simply asking why someone such as me, an older pvper who has played UO for many years, cannot be allowed to access Trammel content on a character that is red. This wouldn't even be discussed if they allowed reds into certain areas. PRIME EXAMPLE IS THE ABYSS. Worthless to me, not even a single peerless thrown to Fel. I just don't understand why it would be so hard to throw a "disguise kit" on a red and turn them into waldo the blue. Easy fix, no harrassment due to the pvping, no one knows you are red and no one pvps. You are just a random blue in trammel checking out the content.

 

[BluDjinn]

Good Greif !
Good bye, Good luck, and Good riddance !

And I agree with Felonious Monk !

Whiners do tend to bruise there backsides when they slam the door.

I'm so tired of reading " You don't play the way I want, I'll take my toys and leave"

I honestly wish you well !
But UO was never meant to be a PvP trumps all game!

 

[Spiritless]

Yeah, pretty much any PvPer is red unless you tediously macro counts. Red characters should just be able to access Trammel-based lands and have a blue noto hue. Retain the red status when in Felucca, but red characters shouldn't be restricted from visiting Trammel facets these days. It's just lame and unnecessary.

 

[yanaki2]

ive done the pvp thing and the normal content, im from an age when you killed a red, took his head and turned it in for his " bounty". that being said the problem with pvp in uo and the reason its dying is well ... because of pvp. the general majority of players are not in fel and do not enjoy pvp, otherwise the majority of players would be in fel and not trammel.non consentual pvp has been a bane on this game since day one. more people quit the early days of this game because of forced pvp then any other reason and thats a fact. thats why trammel even exists in the first place.and now with the ever dwindling population of uo there are now less and less pvpers to bash each others heads in and to be honest no real incentives for said pvp to encourage new players to try it. they added more resources for fel to bring back players... fail... added power scrolls from only fel champ spawns....fail...they even added khaldun... epic fail. they could do some things to try and help pvp like lets say let reds come to trammel but cant attack anyone outside of a dungeon...it would be fine but the only problem then is no one would go into a dungeon anymore...nothing in this game has enough of a incentive for anyone to risk dealing with pvpers except those who like pvp.its just that simple.the only way i can see pvp be revitalised if they took something like the battleground system from wow with items that are no trade that can only be obtained in said battleground and no one gets a murder count while participating. but that would require a very serious retooling of how our equipment works now, otherwise it would be great for like 2-3 months and then old news again...

 

[Viper09]

The evil pk is a thing of the past. I'm not saying that innocents no longer exist in fel but you don't go red off pking innocents anymore. Being openly red now days is simply a status marker of skill in PvP. I agree with giving pkers access to other lands.

 

[Winker]

I enjoy playing my red. Being red still has its place in fel. Killing miners/crafters/PvMers should still be a criminal act and have consequences.

If you cant do the time, don't do the crime!

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

You are missing the point. Yes I can xfer off and make a new char. Yes I have stacks of 120 scrolls. Yes I have the gold. Yes I have the tokens. Why is it that I am penalized for pvping is what I am asking? Years ago it was a big deal. Pking at an RP wedding .. that doesn't happen anymore... ever... So what's the big deal? Why can't I play my favorite characters, with my favorite suits, favorite names, favorite pets? I have spent years playing these guys and so my fix is to delete them or xfer them so they can sit and rot? How is that a fix? I could also farm thousands of pardons... btw such a cute idea but really? Farm thousands of pardons?

So perhaps I am asking the wrong question here, but really what is the big deal about letting someone who has "murdered" people come hang out in trammy candy land and show off my "uber" imbued suit that is the same as everyone elses? Why can't said murderer participate in events and new content? I don't get it, but hey what ever I just wanna bring it to peoples attention. Penalizing pvp is not cool. Pvp is one of the most unique and interesting parts of this game. The magery/casting system is amazing. So why penalize people for participating in it? The faction system is a way to promote and encourage non red pvp. So why then am I still red? I really don't get murder counts anymore because of faction.

OH right I played when murder counts existed! Also when bugs existed that resulted in a choice... murder count or hours of time spent lost? Which would you choose? Obvious isn't it?

If you wanna be a smart ass about it go ahead, but don't misunderstand me I'm not trying to get my way. I'm done with OSI UO. I can play better servers, with better people and better staff for FREE. I just think its pretty ridiculous that such systems still exist, especially when pvp is an exceptionally attractive and intricate part of UO, and I just want to see if I am the only one who feels this way.


PS:
As this is the last time I will be responding on here I just wanna say that I am not asking for PVP in trammel. Do not misunderstand that either. I am simply asking why someone such as me, an older pvper who has played UO for many years, cannot be allowed to access Trammel content on a character that is red. This wouldn't even be discussed if they allowed reds into certain areas. PRIME EXAMPLE IS THE ABYSS. Worthless to me, not even a single peerless thrown to Fel. I just don't understand why it would be so hard to throw a "disguise kit" on a red and turn them into waldo the blue. Easy fix, no harrassment due to the pvping, no one knows you are red and no one pvps. You are just a random blue in trammel checking out the content.

it was simply made that way intentionally no one has to make all their chars red and why do that?It obv limits what u can do in game why wouldnt u leave one as blue for going to events/trammel stuff etc...I dont think its bad that reds are penalized u knew that before u became red and choosing to make ALL your chars that way severaly limited u in this way.Why should they change it cuz u chose to make all your guys red?All mine are blue so why should i penalized by getting attacked if i go to fel? Should they change that cuz i chose not to make a red pk?The games all about choice man and living with the consequences of those choices.Remember to think "long-term" before making those choices and maybe u can save yourself trouble like this in the future.

 

[Merus]

I believe UO should have some options for characters who amassed substantial murder counts in years past. UO of today is far far different that it was from 1997-2002. Many people, like me, had a red back in those days for the playstyle it offered. Then we took a break from UO. We return years later to find a game with completely different dynamics.

Forged pardons are great for low count reds, or blues that take an occational count but are unrealistic for characters with hundreds and hundreds of counts, especially those who are returning to UO after long breaks.

My personal choice would be to offer a mass pardon for any character that does not take a murder counts for one year.

Yes I know you can stone off skills, etc... but like the OP stated, I am rather attached to my red. He was the first character I created for UO so many moons ago. No way am I going to delete him!

 

[Warpig Inc]

Make game choices and have game options to fix your problem. Sound advice given and Nah Nah Nah returned. As a great man once said, Butthead " Dumb ass "

Coming on an preaching free shard game set and people. Need I quote the great man again?

 

[Tazar]

Let's be serious: There's no real reason for red status to even exist in 2012. It's not like it's 1998 and PKs are raiding an RP wedding.

You've obviously never been to a wedding on Siege...

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles*

 

[Tazar]

I can understand the desire to go red back in the days when fel was at it's peak - and even to allow other characters to go red when defending champs, etc. But what I don't understand is when you already have 5 reds and you get the 6th character - you do it again... and again when you get the 7th character.

This was not a choice made way back when in someone's youth. This is a decision made again and again with full knowledge of the penalties. The addition of the 7th character slot wasn't all that long ago...

 

[SpyderBite]

You've obviously never been to a wedding on Siege...

Good times. Killing is the ceremony and reception at a Siege wedding. It'd be kind of weird if it didn't happen.

It's the thieves that provide the real entertainment at wedding though!

Back to the OP.. This has been a gripe since they first segregated the play styles. It is the primary reason that Siege was launched. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can be safe everywhere or nowhere. Pick one.

 

[Spiritless]

The non-PvPers are obvious in this thread as they continue to blabber on about consequences, choices, etc. Gets tedious watching people jump into threads like these who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about to spout their views as though they're relevant.

You're all stuck in the 90s with the red = evil mentality. Most reds aren't "PKers". There's hardly anyone to PK anymore. There's also a PvP switch which you can use to make yourself completely immune to being PKed = staying in Trammel. People risk taking counts these days mostly by initiating PvP with other PvPers from rival guilds, when defending a champion spawn, etc. I don't think people should be 'punished' by initiating PvP on a PvP facet; in fact it should be encouraged. If you don't want to be on the receiving end of someone's generous invitation to start PvPing with them, don't visit the only facet where open PvP is possible!

PvP is a playstyle for some. Sure I think it's pretty stupid to have all characters as red in full knowledge of the archaic system in place which probably won't change, but I think it highlights also the ridiculousness of the present system. What does anyone actually gain by keeping "evil" murderers out of Trammel lands? Is it a deterrent to stop people killing others? We don't need one anymore since PvP is entirely optional and there's so many ways around it that they'd kill you anyway if they wanted. Is it a punishment? Punishment for what, exactly? Initiating PvP on a PvP facet? This shouldn't be seen as undesirable and is often necessary in PvP situations where everyone's party to it as mentioned above.

I'm at a loss to see any legitimate, useful reason why this is still in the game, tbh, since the advent of Trammel. As I said, keep the red noto hue for Felucca only. It's potentially beneficial for a PvPer there as it gives more avenues for PvP opportunities for those attacking you in towns, etc. But those chars should still be able to visit Trammel facets and they should simply be flagged as blue like everyone else, since noto hue is just irrelevant there.

All in all this would actually be a relatively minor change and actually beneficial from a Felucca perspective. I'd guess most have just accepted the system as it is and have a character exclusively for PvP, myself included, which is red and confined to Felucca. While I'm not overly bothered as I planned for exactly this, it'd be kinda cool to be able to use it elsewhere for casual PvM in Tram or w/e. It may also encourage others to partake in PvP on their other characters a bit more liberally too which would diversify things a little and give people more PvP options.

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

ive done the pvp thing and the normal content, im from an age when you killed a red, took his head and turned it in for his " bounty". that being said the problem with pvp in uo and the reason its dying is well ... because of pvp. the general majority of players are not in fel and do not enjoy pvp, otherwise the majority of players would be in fel and not trammel.non consentual pvp has been a bane on this game since day one. more people quit the early days of this game because of forced pvp then any other reason and thats a fact. thats why trammel even exists in the first place.and now with the ever dwindling population of uo there are now less and less pvpers to bash each others heads in and to be honest no real incentives for said pvp to encourage new players to try it. they added more resources for fel to bring back players... fail... added power scrolls from only fel champ spawns....fail...they even added khaldun... epic fail. they could do some things to try and help pvp like lets say let reds come to trammel but cant attack anyone outside of a dungeon...it would be fine but the only problem then is no one would go into a dungeon anymore...nothing in this game has enough of a incentive for anyone to risk dealing with pvpers except those who like pvp.its just that simple.the only way i can see pvp be revitalised if they took something like the battleground system from wow with items that are no trade that can only be obtained in said battleground and no one gets a murder count while participating. but that would require a very serious retooling of how our equipment works now, otherwise it would be great for like 2-3 months and then old news again...

Like it ore not Non-con PvP made this game. Non-con pvp is what built all those great RP communities and all that. UO:R is what turned the game from community focused to item focused.

 

[Adol]

The non-PvPers are obvious in this thread as they continue to blabber on about consequences, choices, etc. Gets tedious watching people jump into threads like these who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about to spout their views as though they're relevant.

I'm sorry, but you PvPers spent decades complaining about "Risk Versus Reward" and "Choices and Consequences" and now we get yet another completely disconnected and self obsessed thread that basically states "I didn't mean it for myself!", which shows absolutely no understanding of the wider game, or why the complex set of rules and restrictions emerged from your past historical behaviour, and admits that although vaguely aware of potential ways to get to what he claims he wants to do, it's not absolute pandering to him so he won't do it... and those who deliberately ignored the wider game once more have the brass neck to claim greater relevancy?

Let's just go through this point by point shall we?

1.) There's nothing stopping him doing PvM now. All the Trammel content, over in "Trammel Candy Land" as he maturely describes it, is mirrored Felucca side (the Despise dungeon changes will be the first that won't), and you've also sat on Champion Spawns that Trammel didn't get an equivalent of for years, and even now doesn't get the same rewards. And those Power Scrolls you couldn't get in Trammel fund purchasing the things he needs to access the Trammel lands he deliberately shut himself off from.

2.) The wider content in the other lands, that he claims he wants to see? "PRIME EXAMPLE IS THE ABYSS. Worthless to me, not even a single peerless thrown to Fel." is both inaccurate (there is PvP content in the Abyss) and also petulant; as was increasingly clear, he doesn't want to necessarily go see it, he's just throwing a tantrum that he's finally realised as he storms off to the the smaller, free shards, that over a decade later that the PvP/PK lifestyle never was, and never has been since the core of the game here.

3.) Mobs killed in Felucca in particular drop Treasure Maps for Felucca. Inside of Treasure Chests are Forged Pardons which remove Murder Counts. He states he's aware of this, but doesn't want to be bothered grinding them, and presumably finds it too hard to resist striking the first blow against anyone on a blue who sees him T-Hunting in Felucca and thus adding more counts. He somehow forgets that he could just buy the Pardons with the resources he claims to have.

4.) If you actually want to make a Treasure Hunter, as claimed, you are going to have to re-roll characters anyway, and add Cartography, Lock Picking and, if you don't want to hunt and peck or use screenshot manipulation, GM Mining. If he just wants to PvM at a high level at Peerless, he's going to need PvM templates (tamers don't work at all of them, Sampire or Garg Thrower tend to be the way forward)... If all 7 characters are not just red, but specced to PvP templates, you're asking a circle to be a square at the same time. It's just ridiculous.

5.) He doesn't mention where though he's supposedly aiming to go; perhaps he doesn't even know, because he describes activity in Trammel rulesets as "show off my "uber" imbued suit that is the same as everyone elses?"... But people haven't bank sat in years; not now Global chat is in. There's maybe 5 people at Luna Bank these days.

6.) He's not going to be able to solo all the content either. Which means making new friends with those horrible care bear trammies. It would also means probably not mouthing off at EM events and being disruptive, so you can more efficiently take part. Over on Europa, the people always sitting in the EM's chair and trying to insult him? It's always the hardcore PvP crowd on their blues. And people tend not to help them follow the plot or locate the item bearing items. Gasp! You mean the aggressive Lone Wolf character isn't always the optimal path to take after all? Nope. But why can't he just take a magic potion which changes the aura of his in game character and then have all the content handed to him on a plate?! Because real life, and real life people gaming in a communal area simply don't work like that.

7.) He claimed he would buy a "Turn a Character Blue" token; but he won't buy the already in game tokens that would help him that get him to the exact same thing, and dismissed the options discussed because of that selfishness problem. The only issue that won't be solved by a quick character restart and use of soulstones is transferring of pets... and whose fault is it that you don't know enough people you can trust to just hold your pets for you whilst you reset your murder counts? And even that isn't an issue if you actually think about it. You could open a new account for a single month, friend it to your main house, transfer pets to 5 new characters (and then stable them for a tamer with a full stable; 5 characters and 4 stable slots each is enough to cover 14 stable slots on 1 character), rebuild all the characters on your main account, then transfer back the pets etc and let the second account lapse, all for less money than the current tokens cost. But that requires thought and a little bit of work. And also that your character doesn't exist in the universe for few seconds, as he gets a history reset before claiming his name and items back again. And the universe MUST circle around me, ME, MEEEEEE for every microsecond!

8.) And the final set of ridiculous claims? You don't even understand the facet you're on. There's a reason PvP focused, effectively Deathmatching free shards have a population of a few hundred at most, culled from the entire world audience. It's just not a popular playstyle, and the consequences to long term content in an MMO setting are destructive and uncontrollable. It ends up killing itself in the long run, at least any "persistent world" elements, so OSI/EA deliberately left Murder Counts in to keep Felucca survivable for crafters and people who liked the wider danger but wanted and need quiet down time too. It's why houses are made safe spots. And cities have guard zones. It's why even Siege Perilous has some limitations; And ultimately why they keep you out of Trammel. There's little you could negatively do whilst over there, but the point is to help moderate your own behaviour in your own home. "If you don't stop that, I'll not take you to the ballgame". Because again, all out chaos simply doesn't work in an MMO setting... or real life. If you want mass destruction, go somewhere you can destroy without consequence, like a FPS or an RTS where each individual battle is it's own stage, unconnected to anything larger. But OSI/EA and now Mythic wan't to keep Felucca alive, and the only real stick they have is limiting access to the other facets, which clearly works, on a conscious level at least... because you hate that you can't go to that ballgame in Trammel.

But he's already on his way out the door to a free shard dedicated to just hitting each other over the head. Perhaps it'll even have SetSkill active for all so he can just recreate his character with a few commands... it will no more be the same character with the same history than if he'd just recreated it on his home shard of course, but perhaps that world will pander to his ego far more, and let him be such a naughty boy and go everywhere and be hailed as the target audience. And THAT is what it's really all about for him.

And THAT is why the PvP claims of relevancy are so laughable, and people who don't play that style keep turning up to remind you of it. Because you're walking around with a self imposed bag over your heads, trying to lecture people on a world you can't even see... and it gets painful to watch you bang into lamposts and fall under cars whilst shouting "Why won't the man let me fly where I want?!" But if you really, really want to fly; Take... the... damn... bag... off... first

 

[blinkdog]

Yeah look, I'll be the first to say that the classical "PK" no longer really exists and that there's no real point to red status, and I don't even PVP.

But...

What was this guy thinking when that last solitary blue character was at 4 counts? What was he thinking when he piled so many counts on top of them that going blue ever again was out of the question? Sure on a philosophical level I agree that there's no need for red status in 2012, but on a practical level this is a laboriously self-created problem.

 

[Viper09]

Back to the OP.. This has been a gripe since they first segregated the play styles. It is the primary reason that Siege was launched. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can be safe everywhere or nowhere. Pick one.

Pardon my ignorance, but wasn't Siege launched before trammel was even introduced, before they segregated play styles?

My understanding was that Siege wasn't about this issue but rather about being a harder shard where NPCs would never buy anything from players, something that was important for gaining gold back then (at least it was for me). Being about an all fel-ruleset shard was more of a transition for Siege when the new facets were introduced.

 

[kelmo]

Pardon my ignorance, but wasn't Siege launched before trammel was even introduced, before they segregated play styles?

This is correct.

 

[kelmo]

Now Trammel was likely in the works... But Siege did come first.

 

[Viper09]

Now Trammel was likely in the works... But Siege did come first.

When did Siege open do you recall?

 

[Uriah Heep]

So the guy with 7 reds that have so many counts on all of em that they will never be able to enter Trammel is upset. BooHoo

I say let em in, but with their hands tied where they can't pvp. And as the trade-off, we get PS at Humility, Val0r, and Sleeping Dragon. The balance was always that they got the scrolls, we got the protection from them. Made most of em rich as hell too. If you remove one restriction, remove the other. If you want in Tram, I get to farm my own 120 magery without having to pay you 10-15 mil for it.

 

[Tazar]

When did Siege open do you recall?

July 1999 I think.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Just let reds go to Tram. It harms no one, and with the limited population on almost every shard it helps everyone.

While we are on the subject lets let faction reds be healed in GZ with out getting their team mates guard wacked.

I have 3 mages, a necro, mystic, and a SDI mage. 2 of those 3 are red and my 3rd has been red several times and I have had to burn off numerous counts to keep him blue.

It is extremely frustrating to go scout champ spawns on a blue faction character, in hopes of finding a faction fight, but instead you find some blues doing the spawn. So I have to run out, wait 2 mins to time out, switch a few pieces of my suit around, change chars, and go back to the spawn, hopefully in time. Just so I can try and get a fight.


LAME!!!!!!!!

 

[weins201]

I have recently quit playing UO.. most likely for good, however I felt I should comment on the reason for quitting a game I played for quite a long time. STOP PENALIZING PVP.

I played UO to pvp.. that's all I ever did in UO, I never got to play 95% of the game because I pvp. The day I started UO until the day I quit I played in Fel. All of my toons are red, with 100+ counts on my "youngest" . I'm not bragging or what ever, i'm just stating the facts. 99% of people would not have an account like this, I however do. I also understand and understood at the time, the rules of being a pvper. At the time I made this decision finding people to fight was not hard. Things change however...

I emailed, called and in general just bitched to EA/Bioware whoever it is that takes my money, to see if I could PAY MONEY to turn my main character blue so that I could PLAY THE TRAMMEL CONTENT IVE BEEN PAYING AND UPDATING FOR YEARS! I was told we do not offer that service. I considered making a T hunter and farming pardons, but that could take years, and my main red has tons of counts. I want to try pvming, I want to tame pets, check out tokuno islands, malas, the abyss etc.

There is no reason to penalize pvp these days. I don't see why a "red" can't get turned into a "blue" and applied a fake name tag (think theif disguise kit) and be allowed to enter trammel. No one knows who this "murderer" is, the said "murderer" gets to play the game.

I am curious if anyone still feels that pvp/pking results in extreme amounts of frustration and a general feeling of not wanting to play uo? I havn't had someone's suit drop in years. Hell, I havn't found any "non" pvpers in fel in the past few years. The worst case is you do happen to loose all your gear, you can go imbue a new suit in what an hour? Then with faction gear the lose is even less significant, and you have a 20 minute time out to replace it. The 120 scroll thing is dead to me, but lets say that is still the number one arguement... there are so many EMPTY servers that you could almost pick a server and go farm scrolls without being bothered. I think trying to hold the 120s over the reds is wayy past dead at this point.

SO really what are we penalizing pvpers for? Because I prefer my opponent to be the smartest most intelligent opponent I can find in a game I an penalized? I have given up on attempting to get my account changed. I just feel very strongly about this and it is the reason I have moved on to new games. Penalizing people for fighting each other is needed when it results in harrasment and griefing. The way UO is now the reason for penalizing pvp is due to not giving a ****/lazyness or not knowing how to. Either way it's not worth my time or my money.

So you want to enter Tram , well it has been made as plain as possible and as easy as possible, transfer a red you have off your shard. Create a new char that is "Blue" and enjoy the simple - non - murder play style you so want to explore. Then once you are bored you can either go make that char a murderer or just play on of your MANY other murderers.

You are not being penalized for PvPing you are being penalized for killing somone who was't out there with the intent to be your toy. There are MANY ways to PvP without murdering people. And with 7 char slots you VERY recently in the UO timeframe decided to make your last 2 chars murders.

you can EASILY turn a char of your blue U just refuse to do so. I dont thik anyone here believes that ALL your chars are red because that is your play style, it is because you are malicious. You would not have ANY fun playing in trammel anyways since no one would agree with your mindset. It is and was toeasy for you to leave a char blue but you chose to make ALLY your chars murders - deal with it.

No one is penalizing PvP they are penalizing people who maliciously attack people who are not out there looking for a fight.

There are many easy ways for you to explore the "Tammie" content none of which would cost you any more than you already have.

You are NOT being penalized for PvPing you are being penalized for attacking player who did not want to have to deal with being attacked without provocation or challenge.

 

[Viper09]

You are NOT being penalized for PvPing you are being penalized for attacking player who did not want to have to deal with being attacked without provocation or challenge.

That is not necessarily the case now days in PvP. Not everyone fighting is in a rival guild they are at war with or in an opposing faction. If everyone who PvPs is in some way at war with all other PvPers it would be so much simpler but that isn't how it is. Some people bring blues to a fight and hence people go red engaging in consensual PvP.

 

[NuSair]

The non-PvPers are obvious in this thread as they continue to blabber on about consequences, choices, etc. Gets tedious watching people jump into threads like these who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about to spout their views as though they're relevant.

But that is the point. That is what Ultima is about. That is what makes Ultima different than all the other hack and slash games that are out there. There is a consequence for your actions. I know exactly what I am talking about.

It is a known, that if you are red, you cannot go into Trammel. You don't have to be red to PvP. I did it for years. And I've had a red character a time or two.

But it is a choice to be red, a choice where the result is known.

It's like on my miner, if I go to fel to mine, I know that if someone runs across me, that I will likely be attacked. Just like that person knows that if they are red, or if they do this enough, they will become red and not able to go into trammel.

If I go into fel to do a champ spawn, it's the same thing.

It is a choice you make. If you chose to play that way, you know the consequences. If you don't like the fact you can't go to Tram... whose fault is it?

 

[swroberts]

I think the issue is confused here.

There is PK - where you ruin the game for those who don't want to PVP - Granted if you go to Fel you have agreed to that possible outcome
There is PVP - where you fight consenually with other PVP's

If you are red then you are not PVPing, you are a PK who preys on victims. Big difference here....Hence why when you kill someone you get a murder count. Consenual PVP does not result in a murder count....and if it does.....it wasn't PVP....it was a PK...

UO does not penalize PVP...They penalize murderers.....and rightly so....

You want to PVP, join a guild and stay blue. You want to kill players who hate PVP.....be happy in Felluca.

If you want to gear up and head to a Champion Spawn and kill some Sampire trying to test his Char by soloing Semidar....you deserve to get a murder count...and deserve to get penalized...murderers have never been condoned in UO.

The fact is you know the rules and chose to continue that path....if all your characters are red, then I would consider that poor planning on your part and hope you have fun in Fel.

I'm all for having a full PVP shard and making all the other shards non-PVP, but then you wouldn't be able to kill sheep(instead of each other) and you would still complain.

I don't understand how you PVP/Pks think that PVP is what everyone wants and it is the greatest, that when the opportunity came about, 99% of the population moved their play in Tram.....You drove us out of Fel...don't go pancakes now. Not even the Champion spawns brings enough victims back.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Like it ore not Non-con PvP made this game. Non-con pvp is what built all those great RP communities and all that. UO:R is what turned the game from community focused to item focused.

To someone that is totally clueless, Non-con PvP and PKers almost destroyed this game and thanks to UO:r UO is still around and to give you another clue UO did not go item based with UO:R, it was called AoS. If you want to come on here and spout your stuff at least know your facts. LOL

To the OP you made a choice so live with it and why on earth would you make 5-7 chars all RED and then come on here and whine about it. How many different types of PvP chars does one person really need? Unless he made all of them the same, LOL

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

rofl

To someone that is totally clueless, Non-con PvP and PKers almost destroyed this game and thanks to UO:r UO is still around and to give you another clue UO did not go item based with UO:R, it was called AoS. If you want to come on here and spout your stuff at least know your facts. LOL

To the OP you made a choice so live with it and why on earth would you make 5-7 chars all RED and then come on here and whine about it. How many different types of PvP chars does one person really need? Unless he made all of them the same, LOL

I'm well aware when it became item BASED. To say that UO:R didnt demolish communities is insane. Pre T2A yes pvp was ruining the game for alot of people. After the proper measures were put in it wasnt that bad. UO: was a knee jerk reaction. I agree that newer players should have had a safe place to learn game. Remember when they were making UO:R they promised it would NOT be a mirror...

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

I think the issue is confused here.

There is PK - where you ruin the game for those who don't want to PVP - Granted if you go to Fel you have agreed to that possible outcome
There is PVP - where you fight consenually with other PVP's

If you are red then you are not PVPing, you are a PK who preys on victims. Big difference here....Hence why when you kill someone you get a murder count. Consenual PVP does not result in a murder count....and if it does.....it wasn't PVP....it was a PK...

UO does not penalize PVP...They penalize murderers.....and rightly so....

You want to PVP, join a guild and stay blue. You want to kill players who hate PVP.....be happy in Felluca.

If you want to gear up and head to a Champion Spawn and kill some Sampire trying to test his Char by soloing Semidar....you deserve to get a murder count...and deserve to get penalized...murderers have never been condoned in UO.

The fact is you know the rules and chose to continue that path....if all your characters are red, then I would consider that poor planning on your part and hope you have fun in Fel.

I'm all for having a full PVP shard and making all the other shards non-PVP, but then you wouldn't be able to kill sheep(instead of each other) and you would still complain.

I don't understand how you PVP/Pks think that PVP is what everyone wants and it is the greatest, that when the opportunity came about, 99% of the population moved their play in Tram.....You drove us out of Fel...don't go pancakes now. Not even the Champion spawns brings enough victims back.

Not since the tram split. After that ANYONE WHO WENT TO FEL FOR ANY REASONED WELCOMED PVP. So why have murder counts. If I were going around luna slaying people then I would agree with you.

 

[blinkdog]

If you think that there are "innocent" players roaming Felucca and that murder counts are required to keep "PKs" from killing them then your knowledge of the PVP landscape in UO is 10+ YEARS OUT OF DATE and you need to quit acting as if you have any idea what you're talking about.

 

[swroberts]

If you think that there are "innocent" players roaming Felucca and that murder counts are required to keep "PKs" from killing them then your knowledge of the PVP landscape in UO is 10+ YEARS OUT OF DATE and you need to quit acting as if you have any idea what you're talking about.

I never said that murder counts keep people from killing you. I said that murder counts are the punishment for a PK. PKing and PVP are 2 seperate subjects and if you would take the time to read the title of the post..."Penalizing Pvpers" followed by the post of I have all reds and can't play in Trammel, you might know what you are talking about.

Additionally, there are plenty of "innocents" roaming Fel....that is where the damm Champion Spawns are (apparently you didn't know that either). Not everyone trying a Champion Spawn will kill you on sight (Somethine else you didn't know).

So let us check the facts:
PK's come from murder counts (>10yrs old) - You can check that at UO Guide and Stratics
Blues who PVP can play on any shard (>10yrs old) - Feel free to check that one also
Reds are limited to Fel (We will just say Note 1 from above)
Champion Spawns were put into place to try to drive the PVP landscape (Feel free to research that one, but if you have been playing since late 90's you know that)
Non-PK'ing innocent Blues have to go to Fel complete Champion Spawns for Power Scrolls (See Note 1) - I will acknowledge, going through the red moongate acknowledges the risk of PVP
Trammel was created to stem the loss of Revenue due to leaving players (I won't define revenue for you)
The creation of Trammel = Dead Felluca because non-con PVP was so popular

So surprise surprise....my knowledge was not 10yrs out of date, it was factually accurate, coupled with my opinion of PK's. So feel free to read the posts, uostratics, uoguide, and get your facts straight.

 

[swroberts]

Not since the tram split. After that ANYONE WHO WENT TO FEL FOR ANY REASONED WELCOMED PVP. So why have murder counts. If I were going around luna slaying people then I would agree with you.

Welcomed is a strong word...I believe it is more like unfortunatelly tolerates. Then again, that is the current climate...if you want a chance for power scrolls, you better go prepared. If you get raided and killed, don't pancake, you travelled across that street. then again if there were non-PVP Champion Spawns, there would be essentially no Fel. Anyway, there should be punishments for Murder, it balances that side of the game...You choose to take that path, you get the downside as well as the upside.

This is an old debate, people have strong feelings on both sides and it would never change. However, if UO wanted to make a ton of money they could create a non-PVP champion spawn land, sell it as an expansion for 99.99, add in the non-PVP Harrower for 39.99, and sit back and calculate their end of year bonuses.