Faction Arties - I had an idea

[Petra Fyde]

But it might be totally crap, I'll let you folk who actually play factions decide.

All the complaints about 'decay' and I'm thinking, actually factions is where it might work, in a way.

Suppose that instead of being bought, faction arties were rented, requiring a regular payment in silver at the faction base to enable you to continue to wear them?

The cost would be lower than buying them, but would involve regular trips to the base, and therefore regular and continued participation in factions.

Also regular, but not onerous, silver farming activities.

Something along the lines of 50% of the current cost to obtain them, then 25% per week/fortnight/month (not sure on the appropriate time) thereafter.

Of course on Siege most folks will end up paying the initial 50% repeatedly and rarely the 25% because they don't keep them for a month, or even a week. For this reason I'd also say waive the normal 'extra cost for Siege' requirement.

If not rented - then some other similiar idea that requires regular checking in at the base/ double clicking the faction stone to confirm entitlement?

 

[Raptor85]

But it might be totally crap, I'll let you folk who actually play factions decide.

All the complaints about 'decay' and I'm thinking, actually factions is where it might work, in a way.

Suppose that instead of being bought, faction arties were rented, requiring a regular payment in silver at the faction base to enable you to continue to wear them?

The cost would be lower than buying them, but would involve regular trips to the base, and therefore regular and continued participation in factions.

Also regular, but not onerous, silver farming activities.

Something along the lines of 50% of the current cost to obtain them, then 25% per week/fortnight/month (not sure on the appropriate time) thereafter.

Of course on Siege most folks will end up paying the initial 50% repeatedly and rarely the 25% because they don't keep them for a month, or even a week. For this reason I'd also say waive the normal 'extra cost for Siege' requirement.

If not rented - then some other similiar idea that requires regular checking in at the base/ double clicking the faction stone to confirm entitlement?

Here's the problem with that...factions is a PVP system, the silver farming is pretty much purely a pvm action, doing this would mean now instead of fighting 50% of my time is spent watching TV while a cu farms demons for me. Decay DOES make sense in factions if used as a way to keep people fighting but this just means yet more forced PVM farming.

I'd rather see a system that actually favors people actually getting out and fighting, like having ranks assigned by capturing towns. re-form to 8 ranks, 0-7, and have how many towns your faction currently controls determing what rank you are, and change the faction equipment itself to be cursed without the "owned by" attribute (or at the very least, without the "owned by" attribute). If factions becomes a PVM grind system just like it was before they essentialy locked everyone to where you could only "rely" on rank 1 gear (rank 4+ are un-required bonuses you got when you do well for a while) and we go right back to basicly requiring everyone who wants to participate in pvp farm for rank 10 gear....rest assured all the pvp that's sparked up lately will disappear again and factions will go right back to being just a few people running around in full arty gear and everyone else in full faction suits out pvm'ing in them....I have no interest in farming 80k silver PER SUIT to keep myself equipped, and there's no way i'm buying it from the "silver sellers" who script it....we'll just go right back to the freeshards like we were doing before they finally fixed the old faction bug and started to make PVP fun again by removing the ridiculously high armor requirements to compete.

 

[Petra Fyde]

hmm. oki. Though the idea I proposed wouldn't mean 80k for the suit, far less than that in fact.

What if you could earn the cost in silver by killing factioneers? In a similar way in which pk's get insurance gold when they kill someone? Remove the link between silver and mobs.
Would my idea work then?
Linking the wearing of the gear to ranks seems to be fraught with problems, mostly because people are able to find ways to circumvent the intended entitlement.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

What if you could earn the cost in silver by killing factioneers?

To show how little i know, I thought you did. I'm also a fan of the ephemeral (?) tag.
my thoughts (all speculation here)...There will be a purchase "point" requirement, scaled. Got silver but have no points? might not be much you can buy. When your stuff wears out, you might need to work points for another - much easier since they give points to support crew.
Aren't faction items only usable by the the character that claimed them?

 

[Poo]

when they attempted that faction change a couple years back they had changed it into a system where you received rank off of your involvement.
so you got points for being in the faction base, you got points for fighting, you got points for healing, you got points for holding a sig ect ect ect.

which i think was a stellar idea!

but then we killed it.

but now talking about this..... why not bring that system in, it does what we are all talking about, no?
we dont have to spend our valuble time farming silver and we get rewarded for doing stuff in factions.... anything in factions!

just a thought.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

you got points for being in the faction base | why not bring that system in

So just stand around and get points? sounds lame, but then they didn't have the same mechanics available, so people may 'perceive' it to be the same failed, or killed idea again unless a few 'twists' are thrown in. Didn't faction fighting exist in tram at one time, but got abused or something?

 

[Poo]

you didnt get points for standing around, you had to be doing something faction-ish, so like fighting, or healing, or stealing and stealthing, or carrying a sig ect ect ect.

factions have never been in tram, you may be thinking of of old order chaos fights.

 

[Raptor85]

yeah, you only get points for two things right now, killing opposing factioners and capturing towns, that's what currently determines rank. And yes, you do currently get silver for killing opposing faction members.

 

[Petra Fyde]

so more silver for that and remove silver for pvm?

 

[Raptor85]

I do have an idea, I didn't think of this before, I think this would appease those who don't want to keep enough points for rank 10 but still want the artys. (actual amounts would need testing but since it's a "constant" flow to tons of people they'd need to stay pretty low)

1. Add the new tag from covetous that makes the items decay. There would actually be a "downside" to using faction artifacts now, as they wear out quickly, making their cheaper cost make a LOT more sense. (sure you can have a super orny for 100k gold....but you have to buy a new one every 3 weeks!) And keep an incentive to constantly need more silver.
2. REMOVE silver from dropping on kills. It makes all the current AFK farming of silver IMPOSSIBLE, cutting all the scripters out of the loop
3. Every day you can collect 50 + 10xYourRank silver per city your faction controls at your faction base (kinda like a faction payday) (50-750 silver depending on rank, and how many sigils your faction controls).
4. When a town sigil is stealable, for every day you defend it from being corrupted by an enemy faction you get double silver for that town
5. When a sigil is sucessfully corrupted, 5k silver is split between those who assisted in placing (person who origionally stole from town, anyone who reclaimed it from a faction base, and whoever placed it, splitting it in a way so the one who origionally stole it and the one who places it at the end are guaranteed at least 20% of the cut each.

This
1. Gives a reason to care about capturing towns
2. Encourages PVP instead of encouraging AFK farming on ghost shards and x-sharding millions of silver (do a tour of fire l2, hythloth level's 2-4, and fire temple on each shard if you don't believe me)
3. Makes it hard to abuse the system as you can't simply gather all the artys and never set foot in the faction bases again
4. makes the faction bases more active as there will constantly be people around going for their "pay"
5. Allows the lower level factioners to still wear the gear while keeping having a higher rank still more "desirable" as you get a larger cut of the daily silver. (which players with a surplus can obviously sell to players that don't have enough)
6. Encourages group play within your faction as your side gaining control of a sigil benefits everyone within the faciton directly
7. Is more fair to non-faction players as the tradeoff for not having as nice of gear to choose from at a nice low price is that they can keep theirs forever

 

[Sevin0oo0]

2. REMOVE silver from dropping on kills.
5. When a sigil is sucessfully corrupted, 5k silver is split

I like the "pay day" aspects and others, but not removing silver from kills
Isn't silver a lootable item? as discussed in my "Gold - Worthless now?" thread - it needs to remain tangible, imo

What if silver became shard specific, or limited in amount (Deco purposes) if in transfer? "What happens on shard, stays on shard".

Where does this "5k silver" come from? I think part of the silver you receive from kills, a % goes to the 'kitty'? it comes from there?
Is the amount of silver received scaled, dependent on the level of the opposing faction member killed?
Do the amounts increase as the opposing faction becomes richer or has more combined points?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

but would involve regular trips to the base

What if they could only be repaired in base (where they were created)?
An accelerated decay does seem warranted, (the Con side of a powerful easily obtainable item)

 

[kelmo]

Faction commanders still determine the amount of silver factioneers get from creature kills?

 

[Raptor85]

I like the "pay day" aspects and others, but not removing silver from kills
Isn't silver a lootable item? as discussed in my "Gold - Worthless now?" thread - it needs to remain tangible, imo

What if silver became shard specific, or limited in amount (Deco purposes) if in transfer? "What happens on shard, stays on shard".

Where does this "5k silver" come from? I think part of the silver you receive from kills, a % goes to the 'kitty'? it comes from there?
Is the amount of silver received scaled, dependent on the level of the opposing faction member killed?
Do the amounts increase as the opposing faction becomes richer or has more combined points?

Not saying make it intangible, saying make it so you can't farm it off infinitely respawning demons that spawn in a 2x2 room, get rid of the forced pvm in factions that's currently required to gather the silver. It should still stay a physical item though, yes, you'd just go to the base and visit the faction stone to pick up your "pay" which would be based off of town captures.

And yes kelmo, commanders still right now can determine how much per kill the players keep.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

make it so you can't farm it off infinitely respawning demons that spawn in a 2x2 room,
Get rid of the forced pvm

Why is it forced, Nobody playing? If you can get silver from running an afk mob killer script, maybe it's the Mobs that need a revamp - wouldn't take long to institute a 'surprise' in there that doesn't reward silver, that's something that could be done rather quickly, and maybe should happen, regardless of Factions.
So is farming a main issue?

 

[kelmo]

And yes kelmo, commanders still right now can determine how much per kill the players keep.

*chuckles* I knew this as I recently was a commanding lord by virtue of not a soul bothering to go to the faction base and voting. I am wondering if this power should be left in the hands of the commanding lord... As best as I can reckon, many of the commanding lord's powers are outdated and in need of a look.

 

[Raptor85]

Why is it forced, Nobody playing? If you can get silver from running an afk mob killer script, maybe it's the Mobs that need a revamp - wouldn't take long to institute a 'surprise' in there that doesn't reward silver, that's something that could be done rather quickly, and maybe should happen, regardless of Factions.
So is farming a main issue?

No, the main issue is factions is a PVP system and to get silver you have to PVM farm these mobs for hours and hours, the proposal to remove rank requirements removes the ONLY thing that currently rewards you for being higher up in your faction's ranks and only keeps the PVM requirement.

The silver drops to pack and you do not recieve it unless you are faction, they did this to try and make faction fights happen around these pvm areas. The problem with this is in current UO the most efficient ways to PVM farm are completely at odds with being able to effectively pvp, so obviously when "farming" silver you try to AVOID fighting other people. (and remember, this is factions so the people playing are effectively all PVP players in fel, we don't WANT to sit around killing daemons for hours, we want to be fighting other people). Another solution for that I've proposed in the past is to allow the silver to drop in the monsters pack instead of straight to your backpack (as that's part of what makes AFK farming it super easy, there's no need to loot the monsters) and allow non-faction players to farm it as well, though honestly I don't see that working out well on any shard but siege as everywhere else has the big tram/fel divide where most PVMers won't set foot in fel even if it would make them billions of gold risking only 5k in insurance.

And remember too, I'm against faction artys in the first place, they're horifficly unbalancing to the game and never should be added, more so on siege than any other shard, but when others are using them you pretty much have to use them too to keep your gear at least in the same class as theirs (otherwise you're fighting at such a huge disadvantage as to make it completely not fun..especially as a dexxer as with all the artys granting defense you do nothing but whiff and get parryd at anything below 120 skill w/ max HCI and HLD in pvp....and that's just against the mages!). The faction artys brought in some people who wanted in factions for the cheap gear and chased out a lot of others who just wanted fighting and weren't interested, then they changed it and a lot of the cheap gear group left and many who just liked PVP returned, now they're talking about changing it back again. I'm trying to find a way to "meet in the middle"...they can get their gear if they're willing to CONTINUALLY work and fight to keep it, not just permanantly have it and do other things with it which is wholly unfair to those that farmed the "lesser" versions of them which could take months to years. I also want to see the scripting silver taken out of the loop, and anything "PVM" related taken out of factions completely, it has no place here

 

[Sevin0oo0]

anything "PVM" related taken out of factions completely, it has no place here

personally, I've always viewed faction mobs as a big easy button, and a bit silly. Perhaps they should expand the Sigil system, maybe having more, to begin with?
On the armor... anything easy should have severe drawbacks attached.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Well I agree mostly but I have a problem with alot of things. Like think about PvM for example. You would have to remove the Tamer to not have PvM. I think it's going down the wrong road and closing off Factions and making it even more of a boring system.

You know like, Tin Soldiers or Army Men. Where's all the airplanes, the boats, the tanks, the heavy artilery, cannons, catapults, Seige Weapons, these are all types of PvM and could be eventually be converted into silver winning.

When I go to do Factions in Brit, no one is there, so, I go and hunt silver hoping that someone will come and try and stop me. It's the only thing that gives the system any hope.

I agree with the arties being the wrong type. I don't agree with removing them.

I don't understand why they removed rank. You could see in the future different ranks could have access to different things that are more powerful and completely different.

If you read your post and you do the reverse, you really don't have much of an arguement for alot of the things that you are saying but some of the things make sense.

But think about silver as a new type of currency with a new complete system. An economy that hasn't been touched yet. This could spread into vendors and more items that are earned and use silver.

Like you said with the silver going into the pack. I would also add, don't let it be transferred from one shard to another but I think it makes sense to have the PvM because you allow for 2 styles. You could buy the silver off of me and still have your arties and not have to PvM or you could come and kill me and take my bag that is full of silver. So, you really don't have much of an arguement, it's more of an opinion.

I have alot more to say on this but not alot of time right now. I'm not trying to be against you or anyone. I just think there are alot of points that need to be worked out.

 

[kelmo]

*shakes head* I hate faction tamers...

 

[archite666]

I may return this post to its formal glory and repost it on UHALL, it was a thread all in itself but it got merged and ruined... Here is my thoughts and reasoning on factions coming from a faction veteran who wants both pvpers and pvmers to be happy...

I believe the entire faction point system is wrong.

It's competitive within each faction. That does not make sense. We should be competing against other factions, not members in our own. I shouldn't be hoping members of my own guild die in order for me to wear the gear I want.

It has been a competition within each faction and that very idea is flawed. Instead factions should be based of points you get for activities in fel. Afterall, thats why everyone was mad. People were mad that other players would get the gear only to never set foot in fel. Faction points should be based solely on each player and what they do in fel. Here are my previous suggestions.

1 rank per 10 kill points
No max points
Points decay at the rate that they do now
No competition between players, as in your rank is simply deterimined by how many points you have. If you have 70 kp, your rank 7.
Add ways to get kill points in fel. Either from killing faction monsters, or killing faction guards. You could even add a system where you get points for going to the sigil room of enemy factions.
If you kill an enemy factioneer you get points and they lose points, same as now.

The end result?

Every couple of days players would have to go to fel and do any of the above to maintain their ranks. They would have to go to fel, and risk getting into fights as other players will either be doing these same activities or watching these areas looking for fights.

No trammies would be able to simply use the gear free of commitment.
Only true pvpers would use the gear.
Trammies would go back to using doom gear.
Fights would break out all the time at the areas where points are farmed.

BONUS!!

You could make it so controlling towns allowed you to simply visit your own base to recieve a set a number of points based on how many towns your faction controlled, thus giving you a reason to capture towns since you would have to farm less.

Anyone else think this is genius?

Anyone think this is stupid?

Tell me what you think.

 

[Petra Fyde]

k, can you work that in with what we were refining here?

Starting from the devs statement - 'Arties will be bought with silver' we are more or less exploring
1. how is that silver obtained - Raptor has refined my idea on that to something better.
2. how to make it a recurring cost rather than buy once and never touch Felucca again. Raptor has improved on my ideas for that too.

We want, if possible, to work together to present one idea that we can say 'this is what we want please', not a host of different ideas.

 

[AirmidCecht]

I'm just gonna tiptoe in here a second because I really feel its the faction players who offer the most constructive input.

When I did factions years ago, I recall if you were in factions and chilling in Trammel you were fair game by opposing factions. It seemed fair to me that when you joined you were in it to win it, not hang out in Luna or Trammel. Wouldn't that solve a lot of the issue with non pvp'rs just wanting to sport the arties? And btw, why was it taken out? Just curious.

 

[O'Brien]

When I did factions years ago, I recall if you were in factions and chilling in Trammel you were fair game by opposing factions. It seemed fair to me that when you joined you were in it to win it, not hang out in Luna or Trammel. Wouldn't that solve a lot of the issue with non pvp'rs just wanting to sport the arties? And btw, why was it taken out? Just curious.

I'm wondering the same thing.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

This would be more for UHall but if you're a Guildmaster in Trammel and you want your guild to offer Factions but also the security of Trammel it would make sense to make Trammel the default setting.

Also, if you do not wear Faction arties but participate in Factions it gets alittle strange how people want all these restrictions for the artifact when it really has nothing to do with the Faction system. It has more to do with people wearing Faction Armour in Trammel.

So, you can see there are other issues and points that are really never covered because the focus is so narrow. You could say that having a guild in Trammel would allow for such freedom and the arguement becomes kill the trammie but what about the fact that you would have to assume there should be Fel guilds that are Faction and to me these systems get split and have rule sets that over lap which are going to create other system problems down the road and make certain changes impossible.

Like, having a rule set in Trammel that says no PvP but then you join a guild and it opens PvP and now if you're in a Faction they want to open it so that anybody can kill you. So, now Trammel becomes Fel. So, the rules not only over lap but they become completely unnecessary. So, it's my opinon that you keep 2 basic rule sets and neither should interfere with each other.

But you could still have toggles that would trip PvP on but would be mostly an add on to the rule, not a flip flop or a work a round, or an entire system that over laps another system.

 

[FrejaSP]

I don't understand why factions items should be able to give factions players advantage vs non faction.
Maybe factions players should lose point if they attack and kill non faction using factions items.
I really don't care what devs do with the items on normal shards but on Siege this items almost killed the shard when we first got them and I fear that will happen again.
On Siege npc do very little trading with players to help players to depent of eact others. This factions items goes against the spirit of Siege in many ways.
We would be better without them. If that make Faction die on Siege, then so it be, better that than a dead shard.

 

[Llewen]

Actually I like the idea of "renting" faction arties, and only being able to get silver from pvp - that's something I've already proposed, and perhaps others as well. And opening up Trammel to factions might well be an idea, with the added incentive that if you are red, and in factions, you could access the Trammel facets (but of course you still couldn't attack anyone or be attacked by anyone outside of factions).

And Kelmo, tamers have long been an issue on Siege, but that is not the case on other shards. I've proposed many many times that a bonded pet should count as your Siege blessed item, and I think that would go a long way toward fixing the issues with tamers on Siege, but tamers are not the problem on other shards that they are on Siege. Tamers belong in pvp just as much as any other template. It takes just as much skill to play a pvp tamer well as it does any other template, and I'm sick and tired of having this particular discussion...

 

[Raptor85]

If that make Faction die on Siege, then so it be, better that than a dead shard.

Quite the opposite, when they fixed the point calcs to where the rank restrictions applied properly, effectively making rank 10 pieces much harder to be able to use and not everyone in your group can have them, and gear went back to primarily imbued pieces, it SPARKED faction fighting back up a little...not nearly back to what it was prior to the artys being introduced, but still it brought some life into pvp on siege. (It's part of why I stuck around as well, I HATED having to farm silver to keep a supply of the rank 4+ artys, and even buying what you could off vendors felt "wrong" as I generally knew how it was obtained (half the time I killed them in the act of doing so) but for those of us with day jobs we basicly HAD to.

That's what I'm trying to defend, find some center groud, I personally want to see the artys gone but that would cause a riot on other shards, so I'm putting out suggestions that merely tone them down a little.... but can also bring reason to the town sigils at the same time. Faction artys..and not just on siege, keep as many people AWAY from pvp as they bring people in, on siege it's even worse though as they're incredibly overpowered in comparison, I'd hate to see them brought back completely unrestricted and completely kill pvp again.

 

[FrejaSP]

Actually I like the idea of "renting" faction arties, and only being able to get silver from pvp - that's something I've already proposed, and perhaps others as well. And opening up Trammel to factions might well be an idea, with the added incentive that if you are red, and in factions, you could access the Trammel facets (but of course you still couldn't attack anyone or be attacked by anyone outside of factions).

Doubt that ever will happen, there are some old trammel players who go bananas as soon they hear the word red and trammel in same sense, same with faction and trammel. It's amazing guildwars still are allowed in Trammel. If the red can attack innocent or not, don't really matter for this people I fear. I do believe it would be good to allow red factions to go to other facets except maybe the Trammel facet and it could help remove some of the old hate and bad rumers about fel players if they can PvM safe side by side on other facets.

 

[FrejaSP]

That's what I'm trying to defend, find some center groud, I personally want to see the artys gone but that would cause a riot on other shards, so I'm putting out suggestions that merely tone them down a little.... but can also bring reason to the town sigils at the same time. Faction artys..and not just on siege, keep as many people AWAY from pvp as they bring people in, on siege it's even worse though as they're incredibly overpowered in comparison, I'd hate to see them brought back completely unrestricted and completely kill pvp again.

What else would make players join faction and what else keep them away?

I personly have 2 reasons to not join faction. I hate the stat loss and I hate being attackable in town.
If we did not have the items, PvP'ers would go for the high end artifacts, they may PvM for them but sure also PvP for them. UDL did not need high end stuff but if someone did success killing one of them, they got a nice loot.
What joy is there for a non faction to kill a faction PK if he can't use his gear?
I do think we do agree alot.
I do wish to see alot vendors back and customers to buy the items on them. Many of our old guilds was a mix of crafters, farmers and PvP'ers. Where are they now, only GIL are left, where are all the other, blue as well as red, they all died short after we got the dreaded factions items.
I also would love to see new stuff for factions to fight over. I don't like the factions town taxes as I had seen more than one newbie confuse over the prices. And not many use regs now so could we not just drop this taxes together with the 3x taxes vendor cost.
What about let faction fight over some dungeons control. The members of the controlling guild could then gain a maybe 1000 luck and 2x fame when farming for items in that dungeon.

 

[kelmo]

Alright Llewwn, fair enough. You do seem to understand that factions affects Siege in an entirely different manner than every other shard. As Freja mentioned, many folks on Siege choose not to join factions for what ever reasons. Yet factions and the artifacts are everywhere on Siege and there are few places to hide from these well equiped warriors. Some equity has crept back for the non faction folks I will admit. The damage had already been done.

Some on Siege do not agree with my observations on how faction artifacts significantly changed Siege, In a nut shell, the faction arty buybacks (or not selling back) the 5x fee in silver, the non faction folks embracing hiding and stealth to survive and then the PvP/PK crowd leaving in frustration.

That is a very short and bare bone explanation of my theory. I just mention it because if it seems the agenda of Siege players is some what different than that of others, well it is. Just saying...

 

[Lord Frodo]

Make Faction Arties only work in Faction Cities and Faction Strongholds. If Faction Arties are used anywhere other then these places then they perform negative actions on the wearer (IE MR2 would drain mana.) You want to PK a bunch of Blue PvMers doing a Spawn then do it without LEET Factions Arties.

 

[FrejaSP]

Make Faction Arties only work in Faction Cities and Faction Strongholds.

Why? Factions players should be able to fight other factions everywhere go.

If Faction Arties are used anywhere other then these places then they perform negative actions on the wearer (IE MR2 would drain mana.)

This do not make sense as whole Fel and whole Siege is open for PvP

You want to PK a bunch of Blue PvMers doing a Spawn then do it without LEET Factions Arties.

Here is one of the main problems with factions items. Powerful factions gear vs non factions players. This is the problem on Siege too. We had no chance to defend us self against this overpowered factions PK's.
We always had powerful PK's on Siege but not so overpowered as with factions items.

About PKing blue doing a spawn. The Fel spawn was made a PvP hotspot. I believe Devs had tryed several ways to bring more PvP to the game but overpowered rewards and one big PvP arena is not the way to go.
If the factions players can fight each others on all facets, Felucca may be a nicer place to go for not so hardcore PvP'er and other blues who want the extra goodies there.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

We (factioneers) want easy access to gear to build diverse templates for pvp.
make some task that is in felucca necessary to maintain arties.
Just stop making it competitive. Make it so each player has a chance to earn rank 10 and not have to be a pvp god to get there.
making factions monsters give kill points.
Make each players kill points drop a little each day.
Everyone is tired of fighting at yew gate.
I'm welcome to input.

Some of your quote was pruned, hopefully I didn't miss your points, here's my input...

Agree on the decay, scaled, with a lower loss for those with fewer points. Enough decay so that it's not possible to get millions of limitless points.
The numbers representing the various ranks are simply that, relative, whether it's 5 or 500. Rank indicates a level of achievement. I'm the water boy, I should become a star player too??? Yes, there should be MORE WAYS to earn your ranks, but not by carrying the water bucket once in a while, should it? Cross-shard should increase the decay

Agree, mobs should give some ratio of points vs an opposing member? and Again... player kill points scaled on Rank of who was killed vs rank of victor.
(just an Ex. rank10 kills rank1 =1pt; rank 1 kills rank10 =10pt; rank 1 kills rank 1 =1pt; (scaled) rank kills mob =xpt (scaled), similar to the pvp aspect.

Who makes the faction gear? Just press the Easy Button and get one? Oh yeah, there's not a crafting Faction menu, is there? Faction Crafters could get points for making items, items that need regular replacement. A higher chance to Poof(like when trying to enhance w/ gold) on repair, especially if Not done in Base. Perhaps there could be a Faction Talisman that enabled certain reforging/crafting/imbuing abilities for these "owned by" items.

Should Faction be able to call Guards on an opposing faction? If you do, I think it should give you a COWARD label for a few hours with a temporary loss of full strike ability.

 

[Sprago]

OK i got the best solution

Remove the faction collection box from the bases and place them in the 7 towns. Then you have to OWN that town to collect from that collection box

OK now you need to remove names, remove rank requirement and make them cursed (but keep the tg faction item though) this would allow you to keep what you kill, use what you keep and make you fight for the towns this would bring life to factions if you want the armor

what ya think about this idea???????????????

 

[kelmo]

Now that is out side the box, Sprago! How about faction armor dissolves into a fraction of the silver cost upon death? I enthusiastically endorse removing the name from Faction gear. It does not work for Siege at all.

 

[FrejaSP]

Sprago, it do still not solve the problem with factions items used vs non faction chars.
Also, it's still bad for Siege as items should come from crafting or the spawn.
I understand you want some kind of reward for the kills but it should not be something that make unbalance in PvP.

 

[kelmo]

Freja, we are of like mind more than you think. These artifacts will never go away I think. Most everyone feels entitled to them now. We must find some compromises that will work for Siege and those that feel entitled to a vending machine society and easy button PvP. *stares*

 

[Petra Fyde]

I've been thinking about the buy back, and the ill feeling it generated. I'm not at all sure this could be done, but what if you could hand in looted faction arties in a similar way to the clean -up? Drop them in a box at your faction base and get a percentage of their silver value in your backpack?
or even points? I don't know, and of course it wouldn't be applicable on other shards where they're insured, but somehow make the arties a kind of trophy that you capture and hand in?
There wouldn't be any buying back, or refusing to sell back, it wouldn't be expected? And somehow I'm inclined to think capturing your enemy's armor and being rewarded for it feels more appropriate?

Maybe it could be done differently so that non-factioneers could also be rewarded for handing in faction armor if they capture it?

 

[Sprago]

Freja, we are of like mind more than you think. These artifacts will never go away I think. Most everyone feels entitled to them now. We must find some compromises that will work for Siege and those that feel entitled to a vending machine society and easy button PvP. *stares*

this eliminates the entitlement issue you have to earn your right to them you have to corrupt a town or your not getting faction items this makes you earn them more then now

 

[Sprago]

I've been thinking about the buy back, and the ill feeling it generated. I'm not at all sure this could be done, but what if you could hand in looted faction arties in a similar way to the clean -up? Drop them in a box at your faction base and get a percentage of their silver value in your backpack?
or even points? I don't know, and of course it wouldn't be applicable on other shards where they're insured, but somehow make the arties a kind of trophy that you capture and hand in?
There wouldn't be any buying back, or refusing to sell back, it wouldn't be expected? And somehow I'm inclined to think capturing your enemy's armor and being rewarded for it feels more appropriate?

Maybe it could be done differently so that non-factioneers could also be rewarded for handing in faction armor if they capture it?

you can turn them in for clean up points thats what i do i dont do buybacks i trash em and get points

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Maybe it could be done differently so that non-factioneers could also be rewarded for handing in faction armor if they capture it?

Why would it need to be done differently? oh, like for example, 50-100x the silver value in gold or something like that?
I just picked 50-100x randomly because i don't know the actual silver costs of items - a Siege player would be better at coming up w/ a number.
I know I sold a faction crimson for around 20k on LS, seemed a fair price to me.

 

[kelmo]

Just FYI... Siege faction items cost 5x the silver of every other shard. That is fact.

Siege folk can not insure those faction items.

Siege faction players can and will use those faction items on every facet.

These items can be looted. They can not be used by others.

Faction items can be held hostage. At 5x the cost and having to replace them at every death... people hope to buy them back...

It was a popular game... holding the prize over yer head.
I got yer stuff. It was not a game Siege asked for.

If you can loot it, it should be usable in some way.

Nothing on Siege should have yer name on it. Unless you crafted it. Or you Siege blessed it.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Just FYI...

Thanks for the FYI, I like those, how come the other shards got a big easy button? Why can't they all be more or less the same?
Kill the insurance, nobody will insure War.... should be lootable, imo
On costs... silver cost x10 = gold for non-faction reward seems fair, is that too much?
I agree on the name thing, in case yours goes poof, and you need to borrow one, since rank requirements will be gone
post #34 above, see section in bold, "Who makes the faction gear?" That's the only person who should have their name on it

 

[archite666]

I can't blame you folks for campaigning for sieges rights but this thread has no value towards production shards.

I highly endorse the ideas discussed here for SIEGE ONLY.

However, I no longer play Siege so I don't have anything to add to this thread.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I highly endorse the ideas discussed here for SIEGE ONLY.

It's not Siege only, as far as I know.
Aren't we looking for something that works for both? and SP may need a little modification, they always do.
wonder what, specifically, he did or didn't like?

 

[Raptor85]

Thanks for the FYI, I like those, how come the other shards got a big easy button? Why can't they all be more or less the same?
Kill the insurance, nobody will insure War.... should be lootable, imo
On costs... silver cost x10 = gold for non-faction reward seems fair, is that too much?
I agree on the name thing, in case yours goes poof, and you need to borrow one, since rank requirements will be gone
post #34 above, see section in bold, "Who makes the faction gear?" That's the only person who should have their name on it

if you're not aware of current silver prices and the differences from the normal arties, here's the list
Faction Artifacts - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia (siege is 5x this)
on siege silver sells about 15 per right now, on Atl with a quick look it looks like 90 per is average, for, for a commonly used item like the "mace and shield" glasses that puts current cost of them converted to gold at

Siege:
Normal Version: Basicly unheard of being used, but at a minimum 5 mil or so
Improved Faction Version: 375,000 gold

Atl:
Normal Version: Average 10 Mil
Improved Faction Version: 450,000 gold

 

[Raptor85]

It's not Siege only, as far as I know.
Aren't we looking for something that works for both? and SP may need a little modification, they always do.
wonder what, specifically, he did or didn't like?

yes, I've played on other shards as well, it's just as broken there, the addition of faction artys was kinda a "final blow" to a lot of pvpers who, due to 'little things" like being in a guild could not join factions, so many either don't pvp or left the OSI shards altogether. Since 2009 the artys have been pretty much making the facet "factions or bust"

 

[Raptor85]

you can turn them in for clean up points thats what i do i dont do buybacks i trash em and get points

just fyi on this though, they're worth practically nothing for cleanup points, 25-50 points tops per item, they don't get anywhere near what the "real" versions do.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

due to 'little things" like being in a guild could not join factions

i took a second look at the page(i didn't know to click the little arrow).
So if there was a silver to gold conversion, a 5x diff on non-SP, or is that even a good idea in the first place?
So who's goofy idea was that about the guild thing? was there some logic behind that?