Faction Arties - I had an idea

[Raptor85]

i took a second look at the page(i didn't know to click the little arrow).
So if there was a silver to gold conversion, a 5x diff on non-SP, or is that even a good idea in the first place?
So who's goofy idea was that about the guild thing? was there some logic behind that?

Well, to join a faction your entire GUILD has to join, or you have to leave the guild to join yourself, obviously that had issues with the larger pvp guilds on all shards (ESPECIALLY siege, but all shards). It tore guilds apart, not everyone wanted to join faction and grind silver for artifacts, on siege it was devastating, many of the largest guilds on the shard 100% LEFT to play "elsewhere", and the impact was very visible on the shard, especially when the player towns started to idoc, you can go to where they were even now and there's HUGE plots of land, enough for a dozen plus large houses, just completely vacant.

For the silver prices to be fair they'd have to be about 20x what they are now, putting their cost a little under what the "real" ones cost, accounting for a tradeoff of having better stats by having statloss on faction death (not that hanging out AFK in luna for 15 is really a big issue on other shards, but still..)

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Plus you had stat lose , tamers could lose pets. You could not get res unless faction mate or shrine. No heals so ppl would act like they did not need anyone to help them. THe list gose on thats off the top of my head. So some things have changed, thats tram side, It was a pain so much so it was better to leave the faction. If you were not doing the pvp thing all the time and I did not pvp ALL the time.

If faction gear now cost silver to buy and insure them the ways to get silver will increase making the math change of cost in silver.

Becuse factions is in fel or a rule set of fel should be almost the same on Siege I would think. Maybe tamers in factions should get to buy from a list of faction pets so normal tamed pets would not attack unless you attacked the player tamer or his pet. Fction pets like dragons could be used with points or rank and piad for with silver and resed with silver, or if controll of a city would make it so you had an npc vet and the lose of that city would cause you to pay silver..

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Well, to join a faction your entire GUILD has to join, or you have to leave the guild to join

Something seems very familiar with that. was this a coding issue, or maybe a limitation they didn't know how to overcome back then?

 

[Raptor85]

Something seems very familiar with that. was this a coding issue, or maybe a limitation they didn't know how to overcome back then?

Nah, it was purposful, it's because it doesnt make sense to have people within the guild in opposing factions, the earlier system order/chaos had purposefully put this as a restriction and factions was pretty much built on top of the remnants of that.

 

[Driven Insane]

Doubt that ever will happen, there are some old trammel players who go bananas as soon they hear the word red and trammel in same sense, same with faction and trammel. It's amazing guildwars still are allowed in Trammel. If the red can attack innocent or not, don't really matter for this people I fear. I do believe it would be good to allow red factions to go to other facets except maybe the Trammel facet and it could help remove some of the old hate and bad rumers about fel players if they can PvM safe side by side on other facets.

They just need to remove reds/murder counts from the game. There is no such thing as nonconsentual pvp anymore (clicking on a gate to enter Fel is consenting to that facet's ruleset).

Then let Faction players fight on all facets and it solves a couple of the current problems.

 

[Raptor85]

They just need to remove reds/murder counts from the game. There is no such thing as nonconsentual pvp anymore (clicking on a gate to enter Fel is consenting to that facet's ruleset).

Then let Faction players fight on all facets and it solves a couple of the current problems.

I can think of a few pure PVM/RP guilds that would disagree with you there

I can't agree with that myself either, "fel" as people call it now is not simply a "pvp playground", maybe not so much on shards like ATL but people do still live/RP/etc there on other shards. (besides, i'd miss my counts/color, and being able to use calling someone a "blue" as an insult). What they could do though if people are so afraid of the color (not that it makes ANY difference in other facets anyways) is simply fake everyones notoriety as being "blue" while in other facets much like how faction orange status is ignored.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

it doesn't make sense to have people within the guild in opposing factions

help me understand this... My buddy and I are like brothers and we love pvp, except he likes killing snakes and I like the daemons, thus in opposing factions.
As guildies, we can freely fight w/o penalty? So if we were guilded and factions, we would lose any points or silver killing each other because we're in the same guild?
Why is that an issue?

 

[Driven Insane]

I can think of a few pure PVM/RP guilds that would disagree with you there

I can't agree with that myself either, "fel" as people call it now is not simply a "pvp playground", maybe not so much on shards like ATL but people do still live/RP/etc there on other shards.

Fel is a nonconsent open PvP facet. Anyone there, whatever their reason for being there, is fully aware of it.

There is no nonconsent in UO.

(besides, i'd miss my counts/color, and being able to use calling someone a "blue" as an insult).

That's a really stupid reason to not change the system.

What they could do though if people are so afraid of the color (not that it makes ANY difference in other facets anyways) is simply fake everyones notoriety as being "blue" while in other facets much like how faction orange status is ignored.

Not that I'm disagreeing with this proposal, but what then would be the point of even having the murder count system (other than you being able to see a murder count number that no one else cares about and being able to insult your fellow players for being blue?)

 

[FrejaSP]

yes, I've played on other shards as well, it's just as broken there, the addition of faction artys was kinda a "final blow" to a lot of pvpers who, due to 'little things" like being in a guild could not join factions, so many either don't pvp or left the OSI shards altogether. Since 2009 the artys have been pretty much making the facet "factions or bust"

Maybe we need a changes here so a guild can choose a faction to support but not all in the guild need to be in factions, at least on Siege. I know that may give other problems

 

[Petra Fyde]

I can't blame you folks for campaigning for sieges rights but this thread has no value towards production shards.

I highly endorse the ideas discussed here for SIEGE ONLY.

However, I no longer play Siege so I don't have anything to add to this thread.

The thread isn't just for Siege, the main idea applies to all shards, just Siege has additional issues due to the items being lootable.
My OP suggested that the additional cost on Siege should be waived.
My later idea aimed to provide a logical and acceptable way to dispose of captured items that would appeal more than holding them to ransom.

 

[Jason D. LS]

The key point as a community we need to figure out is what factions needs to be then we can go forward. I have been playing factions since 00 and to me PVP has never been the main goal of it. From Uo-R up to even during first little while after AoS was released people use to play factions to control the towns. The benefit back then was titles, war horses, faction made clothes/blessed gear for a month. People took a pride in working to control the main objective of factions which is towns. It seems now though some people only think of factions as what order/chaos use to be, an all out pvp ruleset. We all know that arti's aren't going anywhere but we need to decide if we want them to be rewarded on objectives such as towns or rewarded on kills.

I most recently was part of a large guild on Atl that was in factions and the main reason was because it made it easier to make suits for mages, sampies, and dexxers. We would go out nightly and pvp at yew gate and do spawns fighting the large guilds in other factions here. I can however say without a doubt the most interested in factions I ever saw the guild was when we would set up night defenses and would get raided. In that moment it wasn't about how many punkte you had or if you were worried about getting constantly rez killed it was doing whatever it took to keep the other faction out. This I believe is what factions should be about and should be rewarded for, the dedication to go to any range to show your faction is on top.

I guess my proposel would be remove the point system because I can't tell you how many times I've heard people were afraid to fight or defend against a group because it would just end up getting them killed and costing them points thus losing their tier 10 artifacts. Artifacts should be rewarded on effort, I believe that for each town you control you are rewarded with a new tier of artifacts the ultimate goal being to control all 7 for the top tier items (orny's etc.) Now I know some will say "well everyone will just join minax then they have all the towns" I don't know if its even still in place but way back they use to have a cap size for each factions and wouldnt allow you to join minax if TB didn't have a certain number in it. Perhaps they could implement a stricter version of this such as if their is only 20 TB, 15 SL, and 15 CoM on your shard Minax would be capped at 30 that way it forces people to join other factions and have to work for these artifacts.

Sorry for the long post but just my thoughts on the situation, we're all in this together and may only get one chance to get it as close to what we want as possible.

 

[FrejaSP]

I think the best revard PvP'ers can get is more to PvP with. The factions arties are made as a carrot to make more join faction.
When this factions arties are used of red factions PK's to PK non factions chars it become a problem.
Maybe we need a changes here so if you do have 5+ short term murder counts (the ones there was used for stat loss), you can't use the factions artifacts.
This way, this items can be used inside factions but if someone want to PK, they will have to do it without them.
I don't care about the items used vs factions enemies but I do care when used vs non faction

 

[Sevin0oo0]

so if you do have 5+ short term murder counts (the ones there was used for stat loss), you can't use the factions artifacts.

/likes. Rather than saying Red is "bad", it should be treated w/ apathy, (since it's a legal choice players make), simply dangle more carrots to make it seem a disadvantage, and at the same time, offer more ways to work off counts, doing escorts, quests, bribes, etc. All they did was make macroers out of once legit players. Maybe ways to work off more than 1 at a time. Simply saying you now can't play on 3/4 of the game, stay in that hole you made, maybe forever, seems wrong, and extreme. Pardons, cleansing ONE, has it place, but does Nothing for those mass murderers, nor should everything be easily forgiven.
If "Red" is that bad, turn off their combat when they reach a certain kill count, like a lobotomy of sorts. Playing evil by choice is one thing, but no way back is quite another. Or as counts increase,I think Red's stat loss should start becoming cumulative, whether your Faction or not. I assume Stat is a lowering of skill cap(s)?

 

[FrejaSP]

The old stat loss for reds are gone for good and should be as it destroyed their chars and total ruined it for roleplaying reds.
Stopping reds from using factions arties vs their non factions victims only put them at same level as their victims.
Yes I know some reds may have so many counts, that thy never will get to use factions items. They may have to make a blue faction char and if on Siege, choose if they want to be red with 5+ short term counts or they want to use factions items.

 

[Raptor85]

The old stat loss for reds are gone for good and should be as it destroyed their chars and total ruined it for roleplaying reds.
Stopping reds from using factions arties vs their non factions victims only put them at same level as their victims.
Yes I know some reds may have so many counts, that thy never will get to use factions items. They may have to make a blue faction char and if on Siege, choose if they want to be red with 5+ short term counts or they want to use factions items.

or option 3 which is what most of us would do given those options, quit an play a "different" shard as the choice became use weaker armor that makes us fodder to the other factioners, wear super expensive armor and go completely broke in one death, or delete the character and start over making sure to never play the way you enjoy playing.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Reds should not be in factions they are killers they kill anyone they wish to kill. That means they like to kill everyone. They are evil and should be able to reach some type of goal that is evil not faction.. There should also be a counter part of a good char maybe they could glow with light that is from them being pure.

It is anther system that could be made part of factions but is not really a part of it now. If they made a good and bad faction the reds could find a place and be prat of that. I think reds are outcasts tho and should not be accepted in any type of well in anything really. I think some of problem is fel dose not offer all that much you reds get that stranded syndrome like being left on an island alone. But i think that might be a good place for them for now.

I would love to say that poor guy that kills everyone is not happy, But we should think more about the ppl he has killed to earn his red restriction.

 

[FrejaSP]

Reds should not be in factions they are killers they kill anyone they wish to kill. That means they like to kill everyone. They are evil and should be able to reach some type of goal that is evil not faction.. There should also be a counter part of a good char maybe they could glow with light that is from them being pure.

I see no problems in reds being in faction, inside faction, their color really don't matter. Also I do find it wrong, that reds can't go to other facets as long they can't attack anyone there outside the guild war system

It is anther system that could be made part of factions but is not really a part of it now. If they made a good and bad faction the reds could find a place and be prat of that. I think reds are outcasts tho and should not be accepted in any type of well in anything really. I think some of problem is fel dose not offer all that much you reds get that stranded syndrome like being left on an island alone. But i think that might be a good place for them for now.

I would love to say that poor guy that kills everyone is not happy, But we should think more about the ppl he has killed to earn his red restriction.

Sure there need to be restrictions to being red but stopping them from going to the other facets do not make sense, they can go there on their blue chars anyway.
Maybe you are hanging out with a blue char in Trammel witthout knowing he do have a red too.

I remember long ago on Atlantic, when there only was old Fel facet. I was killing monsters together with 3 other blues. Then we started to speak about reds and it turned out that we all had a red char too.
An other time, I had trouble with a red guild and tryed to get a truce with them. They refused. Then a day, I meet a nice blue lady. I hang out with her a while. She made me some armor for free. Then she told me, from now of, my chars should not fear the red guild. She was the guildmaster on a blue char.

I always loved reds as they in my eyes was the most fun monster as you never knew how they would react.

I just not like to see them in overpowered gear as they will do their killing of blue well without.

 

[FrejaSP]

or option 3 which is what most of us would do given those options, quit an play a "different" shard as the choice became use weaker armor that makes us fodder to the other factioners, wear super expensive armor and go completely broke in one death, or delete the character and start over making sure to never play the way you enjoy playing.

Yes I do see that problem so best choice is to remove the factions artifacts and find a different kind of reward for factions kill.
If the artifacts are gone, my problem will be gone too

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Its just the way it is There is no other way to put it. I don't think it would really matter but what if it did?
I mean what if reds think in a way that is not the same as you and me.

Like basic ideal of honor guild would you think it was fine that my honor guild is nothing but reds and thieves.?

what about taking ppl that kill ppl and giving them metals in war like the metal of honor?
Do we make guild lines or just let anything go? How do you know the reds will not change keep the char they are when the move over into tram? I mean if you play a good char do you not try to act good?
So what if ppl that play the bad chars come to tram how will they beable to kill ppl or act out the role play and would that change once put in a place they have no control over other ppl?
you might be right it might not matter. But y be red then in the first place if you don't like to kill other ppl and take from other players that feeling of being alive? that feeling of being free working together ?

It could be its not fun for everyone and that it plays it self out in a bad way. I don't even know y you would be a red and then want to come to tram if you could not kill ppl?

It dose not matter to me tho i deal with ppl that kill that are blue also at least reds have the honor to tell other players who they are you know gives you running head start....

 

[FrejaSP]

Like basic ideal of honor guild would you think it was fine that my honor guild is nothing but reds and thieves.?

Red is not alway = bad, it's a system color. Sure most reds may be evil and most blue may be good however in old days, there was a red guild on atlantic, the Pluggers. They was playing a kind of guards, guarding the dungeons and maybe player towns too. At that time not all blue was good, there was ways to kill blue without going red. EV's was one of the ways. so killing bad blue will make a char red.
Also on Siege we had Player guards defending Safe Haven, a player town with alot of shops. Blue as well as red was welcome to visite and do shopping but not to fight in the town. This guards also ended up red as some blue was breaking the rules and attacking red customers.

Do we make guild lines or just let anything go? How do you know the reds will not change keep the char they are when the move over into tram? I mean if you play a good char do you not try to act good?
So what if ppl that play the bad chars come to tram how will they beable to kill ppl or act out the role play and would that change once put in a place they have no control over other ppl?

Red in Trammel would not be able to kill or steal unless their victims was in a warring guild who agree to play with them. They would not be able to be more evil than a blue in Trammel. You would however have a better chance to know, what could happen if you go to Fel with them. They could still do some RP, stay in char, if when they can't kill you in Trammel.

It could be its not fun for everyone and that it plays it self out in a bad way. I don't even know y you would be a red and then want to come to tram if you could not kill ppl?
It dose not matter to me tho i deal with ppl that kill that are blue also at least reds have the honor to tell other players who they are you know gives you running head start....

I'm sure most reds do go to Trammel on their blue chars. Letting go there on their red char may remove alot of the rumers and hate. We had a red char on Atlantic, Lady Zen. She always run alone when out killing. She had a tent with one chest and I think a vendor. She could not store alot in that chest and I offen saw her giving stuff to newbies when she needed to trash some stuff.
We lost her when we got stat loss for reds. She tryed to play the way she used to play, giving her victims a fair fight but she had to give up as her char lost alot skills each time she died. We never saw her again
We do have players in UO who like to ruin your fun but they are not always red.
On Siege we don't have the hate to reds other shards do have. We sometimes do have players we dislike but the color don't matter much.
Oure reds are in most cases a respected part of the community.

 

[Jason D. LS]

Just a reminder guys you need reds in factions because for as long as there has been factions some people believe its right to same faction fight. On atlantic we had a guild that was CoM with us named Cow and they would constantly come in and attack us if we ever went gray or if we were doing a base defense would ruin our set up because they thought it was funny. It required us to make red factioneers so that we could stop all this. Just keep that in mind

 

[Zyon Rockler]

The systems need to be fixed. I mean yea that works but is it really how it should be. If a bike dose not have breaks and you use your feet to stop dose it make it right? I would think they should fix the fact that same faction ppl are doing things that hurt factions in the first place.

Reds can go anywhere . Its not going to bother me but systems are breaking down more and more they should be building ones that will never change. They should set the rules and keep them that way.

I never said reds are bad ppl I was trying to make a point they play bad ppl.. I dont think you can just mix everyone in one place they all need there own way of being and freedoms to allow for it. They should also have a way to fight for what they believe in.

your going to take that away if you just say there no different. We need to see that we are not the same. If you keep on making systems that do not see things then you too will be blind.

I do not know what is best really I mean reds need to have the same things that I have But what will make them red besides their color? How far do we go maybe remove karma take out the virchu open up fel and tram.?

There has to be a better way.

 

[IanJames]

One of the reasons faction/non-faction guilds can no longer ally: many factioners complained that in faction fights, the allied non faction guilds would show up to help, and that created some animosity, so the devs made it so faction and non faction guilds could no longer ally. This caused many issues as this was the only way that people in the same guild could communicate with their guild mates who wanted to participate in factions. Once this happened, much of the siege community was affected. Gilfane had a faction guild for members who wanted to do factions. I'm pretty sure TNT was the faction guild for another group, etc. it kept the guild families together. But faction Artys really messed up siege. I hope something happens. I wish we could still ally our faction arms.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Looking at the description of the Gargoyle faction arti it would seem some of the things we mentioned were already in the works. A time limit on their lifespan and 'moonbound'?