Gold Sink Suggestion - Let us Fix Our Economy

[Zannette]

Hello everyone,
I came back to UO about 8 months ago after few years with about 3 mil between my characters. I already had most of my characters developed so after some work I now have a small egg nest of about 50 mil which is ridiculous as it took me 5 years to get 3 mil.

I have been reading lots of posts and the most common complaint is that there aren’t enough Gold Sinks in the game and I see publish after publish getting trash talked as they don't include new and innovative gold sinks.

As I do agree that the gold is easy to obtain and that there is so much of it around I am also grateful that game is getting constant updates.

I believe that gold sinks could be implemented easily without effecting new player experience and unbalancing the game.

My suggestions is to add new NCP vendors with expensive deco and other helpful things that would not unbalance the game in any way.

For example:
New dyes or dye tubs.
New decorative potted plants that you have to water and that could bloom.
New mounts.
T-Map books / Scroll of Alacrity Books
New Clothing (Similar to Abyssal Cloth)
New decorations for different holidays.

List can go on and on and on with items that rich could want and afford to show off their status and better their playing experience without unbalancing the game for new players.

If these items have starting price of 10 mil and go over 100 mil people will sink their gold. I would personally play more to get another 50 mil to spend on T-map book that could store 500 maps.

I hope that the rest of the community will add and expend on this tread with their ideas on what to add to the game that would not unbalance New Player or PVP experience and help us fix our economy before it reaches the state of the real world economy.

Thank you for reading and thinking about the future of UO.
Z

 

[elspeth]

Now that we have BOD and SoT books. Am really really johnsing for some powerscroll books and T-Map books would be awesome also.

It seems like most of the kind of stuff you have listed are the types of things we usually get as holiday gifts or as vet rewards. As we have to still be getting those things, it could be difficult to separate out this list. Though I do think the book type stuffs seem more like would fit in a category like this rather than as a holiday gift.

What I would really love is have things available for real money in this list also. Like pen of wisdom, the 11th anniversary gifts (so long as devs want to keep them available, clearly this list could change) and the forged metal tool. Really high end items like that.

We also have the clean up Britannia items. And since that system does accept gold, it could actually be a gold sink like you're talking about. Right now I think the gold ratio is bad enough that its better to farm other stuff rather than turn in gold though.

Just my early morning thoughts to add to the thread. Anybody else got some better thought out ideas?

 

[Zannette]

Another thing that could improve both economy and game play could be to have certain quests or tasks unlock things you can buy at this NCP Vendor.

For example:
Kill 60 Greater Dragons in one hour to unlock Large Dragon Statue that you can purchase for 1 mil.

This would get people working together so the NCP Vendor could also add some fun quests for end game players to work on and not just pure money sink. Getting a statue would be more satisfactory and if you are lucky you may even pay for some of it with your loot


Z

 

[goldenpower]

your wish has been granted: BOD Bribery, the biggest gold sink in UO history, is about to be implemented

 

[Zannette]

your wish has been granted: BOD Bribery, the biggest gold sink in UO history, is about to be implemented

Some early tests show that getting a Valorite Hammer takes less than 1 mil in bribes. If this is unchanged once the publish goes live it will not serve as a major gold sink and it will undervalue BOD rewards significantly.

I am hoping to get a tread going with a list of things that could be added without compromising any aspect of game mechanics and balance of power.

Z

 

[elspeth]

They probably should increase the cost of BOD bribery actually. Less than one million to get a valorite hammer seems fairly low. But then those hammers just aren't as good as they once were. Not sure how good the reforging is yet to make these hammers more worthwhile again.

 

[Mirt]

They probably should increase the cost of BOD bribery actually. Less than one million to get a valorite hammer seems fairly low. But then those hammers just aren't as good as they once were. Not sure how good the reforging is yet to make these hammers more worthwhile again.

This will go up as more people bribe up the BODs. The Devs posted on this in another thread.

 

[Zannette]

This will go up as more people bribe up the BODs. The Devs posted on this in another thread.

Even if the cost goes up and I hope it will to at least 5 Mil people will only bribe if they need Valorite Hammers or other BOD rewards. I will probably try and get 5 Val hammers but the novelty will wear off sooner or later.

Hopefully they will add some rewards to keep us on coming back.

Z

 

[Wizal the Fox]

Even if the cost goes up and I hope it will to at least 5 Mil people will only bribe if they need Valorite Hammers or other BOD rewards. I will probably try and get 5 Val hammers but the novelty will wear off sooner or later.

Reforging eats A LOT of charges... Basically with a Val Hammer you will be able to reforge only 2 or 3 items, so imagine the number of hammers you will need to actually get something good and usable.

I'm telling you, people are going to spend dozen of millions to upgrade their equipment!

 

[MalagAste]

I'm sorry but I fail totally to see any "good" to reforging... Why on earth would I wish to ruin a perfectly good item by making it unrepairable or brittle????

 

[Wizal the Fox]

I'm sorry but I fail totally to see any "good" to reforging... Why on earth would I wish to ruin a perfectly good item by making it unrepairable or brittle????

This is not at all how reforging works

1) You don't reforge an already good item (you can't reforge stuff that have already magical properties). You basically craft except items for the 20 free resists (which like in imbuing are not counted), THEN you reforge

2) There are 11 reforging functions, only 2 add brittle/cannotrepair and of course you don't have to select them

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I keep hearing "Sink", but I think the Devs are working at it already, from the other end, as to how it enters the game in the first place - and I think they're closing that faucet.
How so? Look at Shame, and Wrong - and think how it will be when it's applied to ALL mobs, as they said it would be. EVERYTHING starts ~1,000 HP plus it's spammed mobs. So you won't be in there farming leather, gold, ore, or even virtue items, and you Sure won't be doing it unattended. I doubt you'll be 'farming' anything anymore, ever, when they're done.
Think Champ spawns, solo? not when they're done maybe, not in minutes anyways.
Loot - get loot, imbue it, use it, sell it?? yeah, how's that Shame loot working out for ya? (from what I've seen, they did fix that dexxer jewelry problem - they simply cut all jewelry drops by about 75-80%, yeah). Want some plane- Jane loot? It's supposed to be All converted isn't it? There'll be nowhere to get it, easily/quickly anymore. Where ya gonna 'farm' essence after SA is converted? Your stuff will be wearing out much faster than you remember. (it's already here). I think it'll be real interesting.

Also, If you add 50% to a mob's resistances (what they did), and/or a global HCI reduction change (as they've done), or increase hitpoints x8-10 (pretty close to what changed). It all makes the amount of gold per second entering the game drop drop, substantially. Essentially not a 'sink', but having a profound effect.

I do have brain damage, so am I alone, and full of crap thinking this?

 

[elspeth]

This is not at all how reforging works

1) You don't reforge an already good item (you can't reforge stuff that have already magical properties). You basically craft except items for the 20 free resists (which like in imbuing are not counted), THEN you reforge

2) There are 11 reforging functions, only 2 add brittle/cannotrepair and of course you don't have to select them

Really? I kinda thought you took a piece you liked out of shame and then tried to improve the properties. So, this is not much different than imbuing but you get even less control over what you get? Sounds like a waste then. I guess I should take this post to test center or something though. But you really reforge newly crafted stuff only?

 

[Warpig Inc]

Gold sink. Delete the Bag of Sending. I know before the bag most players just tossed the gold on the ground when hunting down in some dark dank place. Compounded by gold being lighter now.

The BOD rewards list need fluff. Good fluff. The sure fire 20x val plate large should have items added that carry the val runic hammers worth today. Like a 100 charge jar PoF could be one. 2nd a Rock Head Minion trapped in a crystal. Comes in random or colors with a very rare blaze color chance. Rock Head is nothing more then a bonded Hoard Minion that is a living anvil that carries 400 stones and picks up the ore that falls out of your pack. 3rd a smith hammer with no neg channel -0 mage weapon and +10 strength with 4000 use charges. 4th chance for a smithy water barrel that like the ore cart generates ore but the smaller ore. 5th +10 blacksmith leather full apron. 6th a now desired Valorite Runic Hammer.


High end Tailor BOD rewards fluff. 50 charge jar PoF. 2nd Heart of the Pheonix ridable Bull trapped in a crystal. Trick word "Rise" and burst into flames leaving a pile of 100 random leather type. Must be GM or higher tailor to ride. 3rd Sewing Thimble that uses the ring slot. +10 Tailor 20LRC 1/3 casting +10 STR. 4th Mad Hatter Tophat resist 10/10/10/10/10 20LRC 4000 charge sewing kit. 5th a Dread Ram tropped in crystal. Random reward cloth color apon release bonded. Trick Word "Buzz" once a day produces 100 of color yarn. 6th a Barbed Kit

 

[Wizal the Fox]

Really? I kinda thought you took a piece you liked out of shame and then tried to improve the properties. So, this is not much different than imbuing but you get even less control over what you get? Sounds like a waste then. I guess I should take this post to test center or something though. But you really reforge newly crafted stuff only?

Yes you really reforge newly crafted stuff only.

- You can have non-imbuable properties and/or non-imbuable intensities
- You can actually get stuff that go over the 500 weight/5 properties caps

Depending on what you want you may want to target a piece with few non-imbuable mods and then imbue the rest, or a piece with tons of stuff but that you won't be able to imbue further. So basically it's not the same, it complements imbuing pretty well.

Reforged items will be better than most Shame-type loot, especially if you want to imbue them after, because they can be except (and thus have a 500 limit instead of 450). Now Shame loot will still be good for Legendary Artifacts (good luck finding clean ones) and jewelry (which is not reforgeable since there are no runic tinker tools)

 

[goldenpower]

Re-forged items can also be enhanced w/ forged metal tool after creation.

so if you get a really great piece of armor, you can enhance it! nice!

 

[rieley]

Ok, hear me out before shaking head. (purty please)

Previously played another online game that had a nice little gold sink. Everyone that played was accustomed to it, and it added game play.

Aging (wear) with items. For example, the loom. The speed which an item aged depended on it's ussage. Items could break down once their wear was less than 50% (average). A mechanic could repair a broken item, say the loom, however it was never repaired to 100% new. This would also make crafting more useful. The repair contract could be used instead of a new mechanic skill. Now most simply purchased new items, however sometimes it was simply repaired until shopping.

Now all items do not need to age, and this could be coded since Siege already has it with some items. I'm not talking about ingredients or resources, rare, rewards or items such as those. I'm talking about looms, wheels, advils, household craftable items.

My input for a game I love.

 

[DenAlton036]

Ok, hear me out before shaking head. (purty please)

Previously played another online game that had a nice little gold sink. Everyone that played was accustomed to it, and it added game play.

Aging (wear) with items. For example, the loom. The speed which an item aged depended on it's ussage. Items could break down once their wear was less than 50% (average). A mechanic could repair a broken item, say the loom, however it was never repaired to 100% new. This would also make crafting more useful. The repair contract could be used instead of a new mechanic skill. Now most simply purchased new items, however sometimes it was simply repaired until shopping.

Now all items do not need to age, and this could be coded since Siege already has it with some items. I'm not talking about ingredients or resources, rare, rewards or items such as those. I'm talking about looms, wheels, advils, household craftable items.

My input for a game I love.

Always liked this idea..

 

[EvilPixieWorks]

The issue is called “Hording”.

For one... Trash talking seems to be easy... contributing to the conversation is hard for some people. I love seeing new ideas pop up, even if they aren't something I agree with. I agree... this gold issue is a big problem.

Honestly, there are already 3 standing places you can donate your gold in exchange for points for goods. The Brit Library, the Vesper Museum, and the Moonglow Zoo. Also, adding for now, the clean-up system in place will take gold as well.

Next will be the Bulk Order Deed bribery system... and it's insane. I’ve already looked at it on test and will not be giving away a single coin into it.

Problem with this being a gold-sink that works... the points vs. gold is totally unreasonable. You are far better off buying items to donate or working to collect resources. That’s not so bad of an idea... anything to get people away from bank-sitting and playing the game again would be great.

Even if there was a way that good new items could be won by ONLY donating millions, it would have to be worth it... points vs. gold reasonable. I’d lean way more to functional items vs. status items because we already have enough bank-sitters hanging around with old-school phoenix armor on Atlantic. Not from hard work or account age... from just being very rich, no matter how they got their gold. hehe

For a real cure to this gold situation, it's time to get away from the gold-sink idea and look at a gold-exchange program.

For a real life history lesson, during the time of WW2, Italy was printing money as fast as they could and the end result was having to take a wheel-barrel full of this worthless business to do your grocery shopping. At the end of the war, for Italy, part of recovering from the damage was to make a new form of money. Old money for new.

And face it... throughout the 14+ years of UO, there have been so many changes in the system, gold just keeps piling up and loosing value. If it be spawn, crafting rewards, or criminals. The staff has said, throughout the generations of staff we’ve had, they will never make checks bigger then 1 million. People end up having to use vendors to hold vast amounts of gold because there will be no fix. The LOGICAL thing is to do a gold exchange... yet, this idea just gets ignored. 1000 old for 1 new... or something like that. 10k old for 1 new. Go from a billionaire player to a few million? I’d go for that, even though it would mean working out all new prices and time an adjustment.

Otherwise, they could make it be where you give 1m gold for 1$ off your monthly account fees... I still don’t think many would go for it. Hording. You just never know when a big ticket item comes around you just must have.

 

[Zosimus]

I can fix it real easy.

Just give me your gold. Just saying!

I will run out in the lands or sea where nobody goes to because nobody explores that much anymore. I like to jog what can I say.

Kill something dump the gold in the corpse or lay it on the ground because I'm cool like that.

It goes *poof* eventually.

Home made gold sink Didn't have to take any developers time to try to come up with something. My idea is patch free and doesn't break the clients.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Ok, hear me out before shaking head. (purty please)

Previously played another online game that had a nice little gold sink. Everyone that played was accustomed to it, and it added game play.

Aging (wear) with items. For example, the loom. The speed which an item aged depended on it's ussage. Items could break down once their wear was less than 50% (average). A mechanic could repair a broken item, say the loom, however it was never repaired to 100% new. This would also make crafting more useful. The repair contract could be used instead of a new mechanic skill. Now most simply purchased new items, however sometimes it was simply repaired until shopping.

Now all items do not need to age, and this could be coded since Siege already has it with some items. I'm not talking about ingredients or resources, rare, rewards or items such as those. I'm talking about looms, wheels, advils, household craftable items.

My input for a game I love.

I think if the Siege system of 'uses' on all tools were made game wide and add ons that were 'tools' were included in the system I would be quite happy with the idea. I don't expect my RL oven to last forever without replacment, so I'd quite happily accept that my UO one should wear out too.
We already have repair deeds for carpentry, for quarterstaves, wooden shields, woodland armor, so using one on a loom or spinning wheel wouldn't be a big step.

 

[old gypsy]

I think if the Siege system of 'uses' on all tools were made game wide and add ons that were 'tools' were included in the system I would be quite happy with the idea. I don't expect my RL oven to last forever without replacment, so I'd quite happily accept that my UO one should wear out too.
We already have repair deeds for carpentry, for quarterstaves, wooden shields, woodland armor, so using one on a loom or spinning wheel wouldn't be a big step.

Totally agree.

 

[goldenpower]

Let us Fix Our Economy

this begs the question: what do you think is wrong with UO's economy?

 

[EvilPixieWorks]

this begs the question: what do you think is wrong with UO's economy?

Duhi? Gold is nearly worthless?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

While I have no problem with gold sinks I want to point out, again, that not everyone agrees what is meant by a broken economy.

Gold is too easy to obtain. Gold is too hard to obtain, thus leading to hurtful income inequality. Stuff is too expensive. Stuff is too cheap, and what was worth a lot awhile ago is now not worth as much.

Funny how if we're sick no one can agree on what the symptoms are, let alone the causes.

-Galen's player

 

[Mirt]

As long as gold keeps coming into the economy your going to have inflation. The trouble is that there really isn't anything you can do about it. If people don't want deco then the attempted sink fails and if its a game play issue then its not really a sink anymore. The best thing they could probably do is end the massive gold dump at the end of a spawn that would at least slow down inflation but still it would be there. This system is the best attempt to put in a gold sink that the devs have come up with and I for one think it will be great to be able to up things so that I can still BOD but not have to do it full time to get anything.

 

[old gypsy]

As long as gold keeps coming into the economy your going to have inflation. The trouble is that there really isn't anything you can do about it. If people don't want deco then the attempted sink fails and if its a game play issue then its not really a sink anymore. The best thing they could probably do is end the massive gold dump at the end of a spawn that would at least slow down inflation but still it would be there. This system is the best attempt to put in a gold sink that the devs have come up with and I for one think it will be great to be able to up things so that I can still BOD but not have to do it full time to get anything.

You're right about inflation... could compare it to how it has worked in the real world. A brand new car I bought for less than 2k many years ago sells for so much more today. UO is fifteen years old, after all.

I think the devs are on the right track. Hope so, anyway.

 

[Uvtha]

Gold sinks only "fix" inflation. They don't fix the economy.

 

[Uvtha]

Duhi? Gold is nearly worthless?

Do you mean that the value of gold has been inflated or that there's nothing to buy with your gold?

The inflation issue is really not an issue, and people make far too much of it. Its merely a matter of aesthetics and ease of use. It has no effect on the health of the economy what value currency has in a virtual setting where monster HP is the only functional barrier to obtaining wealth.

The problem with the economy as I see it is the lack of economic intercourse.
Sadly unless you get rid of insurance or institute rapid item wear you can't fix it.

The whole reason UO has such a vibrant and fun economy in the olden times was because there were many items that had constant demand. With insurance the demand has dried up to a trickle.
At a point people only buy consumables which are fairly uncommon (basically just potions and sots/ps sort of) deco, which is very inconsistent, or the occasional times when people either decide to pick up a new template, or a game chance necessitates a rebuilding of a suit.

Back when Siege had a decent population the economy was amazing. With all the post aos options, and all of the demand from people losing items, there were tons of vendors providing needed goods, and the interchange between customers and vendors was very satisfying. Life was good for the hunters, crafters, and the consumer.

Sadly people are not willing to give up their security for a more satisfying experience. I understand it in a way, but in a larger picture sense I really don't.

 

[Zannette]

this begs the question: what do you think is wrong with UO's economy?

UO's Economy suffers from the real world issues. Over 15 years of UO's glorious existence stock piles of gold has grown exponentially to the point where soon we will use 1 Mil checks as toilet paper.

This inflated economy has a negative effect for all new players trying the game. UO unlike other MMORPG games has a steeper learning curve as it's sandbox mode is quite complex which is one of the things that is so attractive about it but when the new player tries the game inflated prices stagnate his or hers progress.

The only thing I am suggesting is to add elite /prestigious items to the game that have no influence any of the game mechanics and are purely for show. To make these items more desirable players could complete tasks or quests that unlock the option to purchase these rewards.

Changing the way current items work or degrade will take away developers precious time from adding more content and fixing the problems that we are already ranting about.
People now spend real life $$ or millions of gold to get items like Abyssal Hair Dye and I believe that they would spend even more if they had an option especially if they had to complete a hard quest to earn the right to wear or purchase this item.

I believe that this would take large amounts of hoarded gold out of the circulation which would in retrospect hopefully lower some of the inflated prices in our Luna shops while leaving people sense of accomplishment that they got something in return and keep the end game interesting and collectors happy.

Z

 

[Zannette]

So here are some of my ideas.

NCP Vendor with Elite and Prestigious items like:
SOA Books
T-Map Books
New pigments and hair dyes

New decorations for the home
Eg. Large Dragon statue that you could buy after you kill 60 Greater Dragons in one hour or if timed quests are too hard to code than we could turn in 50 Dragon Claws that are rare drop from G-Dragons (1/10). Price of this statue could be 2 mil; which is actually quite cheap considering the inflation.

New holiday decorations.
Eg. I loved this year's Santa. Similar decoration could be sold at teh NCP Vendor and to buy it we could do the quest where we go around Sosaria and kill ratman that stole Santa's Gingerbread Cookies. I think this would be a great even for Christmas and two rewards could be given. One Santa Statue for free to anyone that has completed the quest and one Santa Sleigh that you can purchase for 2 Mil from the NCP Vendor.

New Mounts or Dyes that turn Ethy mounts certain color ( I would love solid pitch black Ethy Ride)
To be able to buy the dye you have to tame 250 horses and bring them to your local stable.

With the entire dungeon revamps another thing that could be implemented is if they dedicate the lowest floor on each of these Dungeons to hardest monsters but to access the floor you need to pay 100k

Please add to this list

Z

 

[Uvtha]

UO's Economy suffers from the real world issues. Over 15 years of UO's glorious existence stock piles of gold has grown exponentially to the point where soon we will use 1 Mil checks as toilet paper.

This inflated economy has a negative effect for all new players trying the game. UO unlike other MMORPG games has a steeper learning curve as it's sandbox mode is quite complex which is one of the things that is so attractive about it but when the new player tries the game inflated prices stagnate his or hers progress.

Not really. The speed of attaining relative wealth will always be pretty much the same. There will always be a wealth advantage to people who have been playing longer, nothing can change that, nor should you even desire to. Deflating money would only change the numbers of what makes you wealthy, not the speed at which wealth can be acquired.

Removing "hoarded" gold from the system in exchange for rare items does not change the wealth disparity. If somehow the whole game were retooled so that being rich were 100,000 gold rather than 100 million, that rare item that absorbed all of those excess zeros would still have the same relative value, so those rich people could just turn around, and sell the rare items to require their currency wealth, and back and forth. All you did was change the string of numbers.
A Lottery is the only way to remove any real amount of wealth. There have to be people who trade in gold for nothing.

Inflation is purely cosmetic problem in a virtual world. That said, cosmetics are not unimportant, but there are so many factors that have contributed to the current level of inflation that cannot or will not be fixed, and voluntary gold sinks only do so much.

The easiest, fastest, and most effective way to remove inflation is a currency conversion. Which I am for personally. All other methods are convoluted and don't work that well.

 

[virtualhabitat]

The problem with the economy as I see it is the lack of economic intercourse.

This +1



Uvtha made an important observation, "Gold sinks only "fix" inflation. They don't fix the economy."

Even this is only true if people are actually sinking gold into the sink.

Note that Evil Pixie Works "will not be giving away a single coin into it." Talking about the new BoD bribery system and the current museum collection gold/point systems.

My own personal pet peeve is the Commodity price algorithm. You know the thing that causes prices to rise the more you buy.

What none of these do is encourage maximum flow of currency throughout the economy.

I propose that inflation is not the primary problem, but rather a strangulation of circulation.

I also believe Reiley and Petra are Closer to a solution with the idea that things should decay over time and use.

Weapons and armor, tools, furniture, appliances, clocks, clothing, shoes, and animals should all require at least some maintenance and care to prevent decay, age, and destruction. Ultimately, they should all decay.

The problem with UO economy is not enough value is being added to coincide with the amount of currency being added.

I am using the term "Value" here to refer to goods and services crafted or performed by players.

Gold is and has been introduced at a much faster pace than value can be.

This is at the heart of the problem.

Value also cannot be solely restricted to one skill set. Imbuing, for example, cannot be the only service adding value to the economy. Value must be able to enter the economy dynamically from as many points as possible to be able to respond to the will of the market.

Tinkers, carpenters, tailors, Blacksmiths, fletchers, cooks, and alchemists should all have a significant contribution to real value in the UO economy. They should be making and serving things everyone really needs.

Doing this will free a considerable amount of horded gold, thus mitigating some of the perceived effects of the inflation.

 

[Uvtha]

Sadly since equipment is the back bone of value insurance curtails how much demand you can have.

You could add in a bunch of consumable things, but that would just be obnoxious I think to force people to use more consumables because of the poor design choices of the past.

 

[virtualhabitat]

Sadly since equipment is the back bone of value insurance curtails how much demand you can have.

You could add in a bunch of consumable things, but that would just be obnoxious I think to force people to use more consumables because of the poor design choices of the past.

Insurance is certainly a block to demand. No doubt about it.

As to your response to my other comments, I am not merely suggesting that cooks become significant contributors to the economy by forcing folks to eat bread every four hours. Think outside the box. Here and there cooking skill has been used for a few specialized functions, such as in the manufacturing of cannon ammo.
While cannon ammo is hardly needed by more than a tiny minority of players is not the point, the idea is to create new, more meaningful uses for these skills so that they can become contributors.

Would there be more consumables? Absolutely. Consumables don't always have to be obnoxious though. Imbuing runs entirely on consumables and it's final product itself is a consumable. I have not once seen it characterized as obnoxious.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

The economy is fine. Why do we always have this discussion? Economy works because all people can buy and sell equally.


You can go from 0 to 1 million quickly. From 1 million to 10 million easily. All that works.

What most people talk about is inflation which is not real in game like real life.

For some reason every thinks an item worth 20 million gold is actually worth 20 million gold. Its not. Cause its not gold. It adjust to value of the in game economy. It is proof it works.

The economy works because you can achieve 20 million to buy or find items to sell for 20 million. This part works.

You can trade valorite for items. Economy is not only about gold value. All people have access to all opportunities.


It is just thinking that something is valued at 100 million gold that toots peoples horns the wrong way.

You know if you remove 50% of gold equally.... prices adjust equally and there is no benefit but the fact you feel better things are less costly.

Gold sinks, I was a big fan, but what is the difference. Create things to buy with the gold and the amount of gold will come down.

Fix scripting gold and block future cheats and less gold will come in.

But dont confused that with a broken economy. Ive been buying and selling items for 10 years. There are no problems.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

While I have no problem with gold sinks I want to point out, again, that not everyone agrees what is meant by a broken economy.

Gold is too easy to obtain. Gold is too hard to obtain, thus leading to hurtful income inequality. Stuff is too expensive. Stuff is too cheap, and what was worth a lot awhile ago is now not worth as much.

Funny how if we're sick no one can agree on what the symptoms are, let alone the causes.

-Galen's player

I agree and this my take...

Getting 1 million gold isn't hard. Might take me 2 hours. Includes gold, ingredients, items to sell cheaply. etc etc.

Getting Travesty Mask with Taming might take months.

If you are going to say it should sell for less like 1 million gold. Your nuts. Because the time and effort to get the mask is what you pay for.

The economy is really based on time and effort.

Items that are easy to get aren't costly. Items that are in demand are more costly. Items that actually requires weeks or months to get are compartively priced to the ease of gold getting.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Even if the cost goes up and I hope it will to at least 5 Mil people will only bribe if they need Valorite Hammers or other BOD rewards. I will probably try and get 5 Val hammers but the novelty will wear off sooner or later.

Hopefully they will add some rewards to keep us on coming back.

Z

Im just going to wait for them to flood the market and buy them. The economy works.

 

[elspeth]

Otherwise, they could make it be where you give 1m gold for 1$ off your monthly account fees... I still don’t think many would go for it.

I would totally do this!! And it would be a way to "get nothing for your gold" as suggested below. Or perhaps a monthly gold fee to have a second house on same shard which I'd also rather do than pay real money for. But then, I'm allergic to spending real money

I think if the Siege system of 'uses' on all tools were made game wide and add ons that were 'tools' were included in the system I would be quite happy with the idea. I don't expect my RL oven to last forever without replacment, so I'd quite happily accept that my UO one should wear out too.
We already have repair deeds for carpentry, for quarterstaves, wooden shields, woodland armor, so using one on a loom or spinning wheel wouldn't be a big step.

This sounds neat until I think of all the stuff I have in my house and how I'll have to spend time going around repairing them or redecoing to place a new item. Maybe not so bad, could be worth a try.

A Lottery is the only way to remove any real amount of wealth. There have to be people who trade in gold for nothing.

Interesting idea, an official lottery? Or perhaps an official gambling house, games or chicken fights. I'd find it more fun than the arenas for sure.

 

[Woodsman]

Otherwise, they could make it be where you give 1m gold for 1$ off your monthly account fees... I still don’t think many would go for it.

I don't think reducing revenue for UO would be a good idea at this time. We have no idea just how profitable it is, other than "widely" and even that was six months ago. Who knows nowadays.

Plus you can buy 1m gold for $0.50 on some shards.

And lest we forget, the scripters could easily generate gold, thereby making their scripting even more profitable.

I agree that making gold sinks voluntary is the best way (you don't want to drive players away by crazy/involuntary gold sinks), but the problem still boils down to the fact that so many UO players are long time players and know all the ins and outs of the game and many are sitting on a lot of gold.

If the devs came up with a gold sink that cost say 2 million in gold, and people wanted that item, well they would buy that item. And then turn around and generate another 2 million in gold to make up the 2 million in gold they just spent.

I think if you were to address how easy it is to generate gold, that would be a better start on changing the economy. Cut down on the amount of gold in monster loot. Cut down on the prices the NPCs pay for stuff. Until you address the amount of gold coming into the game, a gold sink is somewhat useless, because it's too easy to replace gold.

I'm not picking on people who get gold through hunting monsters or selling to NPCs, but gold from loot and gold from selling to NPCs are probably the two biggest ways that gold actually enters the game.

 

[Woodsman]

Actually, besides monster loot and selling items to NPCs, what are the other main ways for gold to be actually created by the game?

And if somebody wanted to lower the amount of gold in game by reducing the amount coming in through monsters/NPCs, they'd have to be patient. It would take a while before you'd see a noticeable difference since there is so much gold currently in the game. Not to mention that the moment such a plan was introduced, people would begin hording gold. You'd have to be really patient, we're talking a year or more.

 

[Warpig Inc]

CUTE. You really believe those that sell gold are sitting at their bank of computers. And think they don't buy back the gold they sell for less, to resell.

 

[Zannette]

If you lower the amount of gold entering the game through monster loot and NCP sales you significantly hurt new player experience as they will not be able to collect enough gold to compete with the gold amounts already accumulated.

I started this tread to generate ideas on how to take some of the gold out of the game while possibly adding more content without actually messing with the game mechanics.

I understand that inflation will always be an issue and I don't see that as a problem as it is understandable that senior players will always have more gold if they actually care on making it. My only concern is that new players don't get a chance to compete with today's economy without giving up their life to farm gold in UO.

I started this tread two days ago and already made 6 mil since then but that is only because I have 6 fully trained characters. New players don't have this privilege and will leave the game after month or two of playing as they can't afford basic things to progress their characters without spending eternity farming skeletons or doing escorts in New Heaven.

Changing currency is not an answer as it would impact commodity sales. Adding additional currency could help gold storage issues so that we don't bog our banks and homes with it.

Z

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

If you lower the amount of gold entering the game through monster loot and NCP sales you significantly hurt new player experience as they will not be able to collect enough gold to compete with the gold amounts already accumulated.

I started this tread to generate ideas on how to take some of the gold out of the game while possibly adding more content without actually messing with the game mechanics.

I understand that inflation will always be an issue and I don't see that as a problem as it is understandable that senior players will always have more gold if they actually care on making it. My only concern is that new players don't get a chance to compete with today's economy without giving up their life to farm gold in UO.

I started this tread two days ago and already made 6 mil since then but that is only because I have 6 fully trained characters. New players don't have this privilege and will leave the game after month or two of playing as they can't afford basic things to progress their characters without spending eternity farming skeletons or doing escorts in New Heaven.

Changing currency is not an answer as it would impact commodity sales. Adding additional currency could help gold storage issues so that we don't bog our banks and homes with it.

Z

New players excuse is old. No offense. You made 6 million because you developed skills and built players.

If someone quits after a month... good. That is just laziness. For 500k you can get all you need to play and start nicely. Ill give that out if you ask.

The only thing this game needs more of is random content and continued reasons to explore.

Inflation is fine and occurred mostly from a huge cheat years ago but item value adjusted.

Inflation continues because the gold stays in players hands. Gold sinks or not and I am for them... the game success is on exploration and adventure.

 

[MYUO]

The economy looks "broken" mostly because of the MASSIVE amount of gold created by previous exploits and on going scripting. You also got player quiting leaving tons of their gold behind.

This much of gold is actually having the biggest impact on casual players who have about 10-200 million gold in their bank. Here is why: the items that you see selling for stunning high prices are the new fad items, high end/rare items, and rare resources. The "middle class" casual players don't have time or unwilling to farm those items so they have to pay up to get them. The feel the pain. New players won't really need those items as they are still learning the rope. More wealthy players either have enough gold to pay for those items or are knowlegeble and capable to farm by themselves.

To "fix the ecconomy", the MOST IMPORTANT step to take is to stop script farming and potential exploits. Other than that, dev can put in some gold sinks that can really put a dent on the gold in circulation, such as selling personal Moongate, NPC, Boss summoner for insane amount of gold, or official runebooks with limited charges for all cities and point of interests in UO for good amount of gold.

 

[MYUO]

... the game success is on exploration and adventure.

Actually I think the key to the success of the game is simplification and player friendlyness. They have made this game too complicated for even long time players like me. The worst of all are the massive complixity of item mods and skills for combat. Their negative effects bleeds into crafting and make some portion of the crafting system over complicated.

What we need is a "Easy Mode", a system that direct you to achieve reasonable level of goals and have some fun without reading forums and player guides every day, and remembering all the facts and changes over years.

 

[Woodsman]

If you lower the amount of gold entering the game through monster loot and NCP sales you significantly hurt new player experience as they will not be able to collect enough gold to compete with the gold amounts already accumulated.

People have been complaining about new players not having enough gold since, well 1997.

I started this tread to generate ideas on how to take some of the gold out of the game while possibly adding more content without actually messing with the game mechanics.

As long as gold is easy to generate, gold sinks won't actually remove much, if any gold.

Let's say for instance there is 750 million gold on a shard. You make a gold sink that causes 50 people to spend a million in gold apiece.

Now you think you've reduced the gold to 700 million gold.

Except that those 50 people can easily generate that 50 million gold, or they can sell things to other people who then generate that 50 million to replace the money they just spend. Monster loot or selling crap to NPCs, somebody is going to replace the gold one way or another.

In fact, if the gold sink is desirable enough, there will be people farming extra gold just to buy it, so that there is gold being generated just for the gold sink.

End result: You still have 750 million in gold after all is said and done.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Actually I think the key to the success of the game is simplification and player friendlyness. They have made this game too complicated for even long time players like me. The worst of all are the massive complixity of item mods and skills for combat. Their negative effects bleeds into crafting and make some portion of the crafting system over complicated.

What we need is a "Easy Mode", a system that direct you to achieve reasonable level of goals and have some fun without reading forums and player guides every day, and remembering all the facts and changes over years.

I agree. But Ive been saying exlporation and adventure for 7 years now All the time its just being made more and more complicated.

 

[Zosimus]

Before insurance.......

I spent gold on armor and weps.

Sometimes I would get them repaired but mostly I always had to reinvest my gold buying items.

I know many times outside Vesper in fel we be in Pvp fights. If I would die, I go get rezzed and go back to the bank and have armor, weps, and supplies neatly stored in bags for those occasions.

The people I was buying stuff from did they make gold? Yes but many players that only played crafter type of characters it was their main source of income. It was their playstle.

Things broke. Things didn't always get fixed. I just use to buy poison katanas everyday like crazy.

If I died in a dungeon and couldn't get back to my stuff I have to go back to my house or bank and get more stuff.

No matter how much gold I was making I was spending, a % back into the economy to keep myself playing the game.

Yes I saved gold to but not like I could in todays UO..



After insurance

You hardly lose anything if you have gold. A bug or no gold is the only way things get lost.

With PoF, imbuing, and insurance items last forever.

Everybody now can be pretty well self sufficient.

Mule characters can do pretty much anything for resources and most players have them.

Gold, tons of it. so much it becomes a pain in the arse!

Nothing really breaks. Imbuing can replace the items that do or eventually will.

Durabilty max at 255 is king.

So where did my gold go to? Not much really I could save millions on millions easily.



Developers team answer

Lets add more gold to the game as loot.

May as well say lets de-value gold more by adding more gold.

Gold sinks here and there but still not enough especially if they add more gold into the game. Kind of like filling the sink up with running water and start draining the sink without turning the water down or off


Possible fixes?

Eliminate insurance. (I will be flamed to death for that one!)

Let items break (Yes, I will be flamed again!)

Eliminate POF ( I am investing my money into a flame proof suit!)

Max Durabilty 150 ( Suit is on!)

Make resource gathering random. Example: A miner may mine one spot and get 10 ore and next spot get 2. ( Suit still on lost some durabilty!)

Taxes for housing by size. (Suit still on but losing more durabilty!)



Thats about it atm I can think. (Repaired suit and POF at max durabilty. I am all good again )

 

[Mirt]

Before insurance.......

I spent gold on armor and weps.

Sometimes I would get them repaired but mostly I always had to reinvest my gold buying items.

I know many times outside Vesper in fel we be in Pvp fights. If I would die, I go get rezzed and go back to the bank and have armor, weps, and supplies neatly stored in bags for those occasions.

The people I was buying stuff from did they make gold? Yes but many players that only played crafter type of characters it was their main source of income. It was their playstle.

Things broke. Things didn't always get fixed. I just use to buy poison katanas everyday like crazy.

If I died in a dungeon and couldn't get back to my stuff I have to go back to my house or bank and get more stuff.

No matter how much gold I was making I was spending, a % back into the economy to keep myself playing the game.

Yes I saved gold to but not like I could in todays UO..



After insurance

You hardly lose anything if you have gold. A bug or no gold is the only way things get lost.

With PoF, imbuing, and insurance items last forever.

Everybody now can be pretty well self sufficient.

Mule characters can do pretty much anything for resources and most players have them.

Gold, tons of it. so much it becomes a pain in the arse!

Nothing really breaks. Imbuing can replace the items that do or eventually will.

Durabilty max at 255 is king.

So where did my gold go to? Not much really I could save millions on millions easily.



Developers team answer

Lets add more gold to the game as loot.

May as well say lets de-value gold more by adding more gold.

Gold sinks here and there but still not enough especially if they add more gold into the game. Kind of like filling the sink up with running water and start draining the sink without turning the water down or off


Possible fixes?

Eliminate insurance. (I will be flamed to death for that one!)

Let items break (Yes, I will be flamed again!)

Eliminate POF ( I am investing my money into a flame proof suit!)

Max Durabilty 150 ( Suit is on!)

Make resource gathering random. Example: A miner may mine one spot and get 10 ore and next spot get 2. ( Suit still on lost some durabilty!)

Taxes for housing by size. (Suit still on but losing more durabilty!)



Thats about it atm I can think. (Repaired suit and POF at max durabilty. I am all good again )

I hate to say this but anytime someone suggests turning the rest of the shards into a version of siege do they realize the population that siege has? The folks on siege are good people but unless you plan on drastically changing the nature of the game the end of insurance is the death knell for any casual player in UO. Dropping POF and max durability might help but still it will not really help all that much and scripter’s will simply keep going. To fix the economy one gold needs to drop less. This would hurt me personally but it might be good to seriously reduce the amount of gold that drops after a spawn. Also something needs to be done about BOTS and scripter’s. The only idea from siege that I could see coming in is having durability on the items but I still don't think that would help all that much as most players do have a mule like you mentioned that is one of the issues that your going to have with a 15 year old game players will have developed most of their characters fully.