Very unhappy about the changes to BODs....

[arkanos]

To be completely honest:
I think it is one of the worst changes ever made.

I have been doing Bods since they were introduced. And no, even after the changes to the higher rewards - you can get val hammers from gold hammer bods - I have never gotten close to a val hammer yet.
So, why do I not like it if it easier now?

Well, because it should not be!
Getting a val hammer through the old system was VERY hard and something like an ultimate goal. And all my UO fortune - and I have some billions - could not get me the bods I need to fill the 20x val large plate. Now I can simply upgrade my existing BODs?

This will feel the same like buying a val hammer from one of the real money sites - which I would never do.

And please don´t tell me: "well, if you don´t like the new way, stick to the old way!"
It is just not the same!
How many people would climb Mt. Everest if there was a ropeway going up? Even if it was expensive... Even the diehards would not, because the peak would be crowded with tourists and it would not feel special anymore.

You should not be able to get everything in this game just by spending gold!
So many things have been made easier and easier, this was one of the last barely reachable things in UO. And now that is gone as well...

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[frostbolt]

its a great change. accessibility is good, ease of use is good.
a crafting item that 99.999 % of people can't get might as well not exist at all.

If you have billions of gold as you claim, you don't even need to "climb mount everest". Using that analogy you can just build a staircase up to the top of the mountain with your money. Being that you are rich there already is no challenge so just buy a valorite hammer or the necessary bods with your gold.

Whether or not this change exists, there's no difference for you. You already have the option of buying it with gold which you choose not to take, so logically with the change you would continue to choose to get the bods by "sticking to the old way" cause that is technically what you were doing already. (as in not taking a shortcut by using your gold)

There is already a ropeway going up to the top of the mountain for the wealthy (gold) which you have in abundance. Therefore the reasoning you give for not having motivation to do bods anymore due to a new way to the top being opened up makes no sense, because you already have access to the ropeway of gold to the top of everest. All you are suggesting is to make it harder for everyone who do not have the luxury of mass amounts of gold.

Unless of course you are one of those people with the unique snowflake syndrome and you think that other people getting the hammer affects you in some negative way.

 

[Symma]

It is just not the same!
How many people would climb Mt. Everest if there was a ropeway going up? Even if it was expensive... Even the diehards would not, because the peak would be crowded with tourists and it would not feel special anymore.

You should not be able to get everything in this game just by spending gold!
So many things have been made easier and easier, this was one of the last barely reachable things in UO. And now that is gone as well...

Hephaistos of Europa

The BOD system needed fixing. New systems need to be put in the game to keep people interested. Existing system + new idea = saved development time. Rather than building one from scratch.

And frankly, the rewards were largely useless. At least this new BOD system and runic reforging will offer people another way of making new items. And make some point to getting the rewards.

I think someone needs to accept that the game is changed. Time to change the tint of your glasses.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

UO is no longer a grind. It was a grind 14 years ago, when I (and many of the other players) were in high school (or college). 14 years ago I was about to stay up all night grinding out skills, faction base defense, the final battle for Trinny, and many other things. Now with a job, a wife, a kid, and many other obligations I (and many other players) can not, and will not, grind day in and day out for a video game.

This game has changed as it's player base has changed, and thank God for that.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I've done BODs just as long as you have and I disagree with nearly everything you said.

I also have never filled a Valorite 20x Plate Large BOD. I've only had a half dozen Verite runics in all that time too.

It's been nearly 15 years now for UO. Armor and weapons are elite without even needing a val runic.

These are good changes to BODs. It won't be the end of UO.

If you don't want to acquire a val runic any easier then don't upgrade your BODs. Even with all the BODs I have I predict I'll only be able to get three maybe four valorite hammers.

Maybe some more players will start doing BODs again also. It's pretty hard to find others to trade with anymore.

 

[MagicStar]

After the last changes i got 3 vals in 6 months
Before that i went years and never got any
Lol i didnt even know they changed it until i went to trade a few bods in and got 2 ver and a val
Wasnt long after i got 2 more val
Verite runics i was getting too many so i sold them all and kept the vals for when theyd be useful again
Im glad i still got them
Maybe i should have kept the verites also as i had over 20

 

[Percivalgoh]

Life goes on wihtin us and without us. So does Ultima online. I just relax and try to get used to the changes. I am not sure what the purpose of most of the changes that have been made over the years but possibly this one was to allow me access to valorite runics. The majority of changes have made me a crafter who can no longer sell stuff because players who spend more time playing than me have the market and I can't compete. Even though I have been doing BODs for years I haven't got anything better than a 15 ash and a bronze runic. The changes were all about players who can spend endless hours playing which is not me. Perhaps this change is for players like me? Whatever...I will get used to it too however it turns out.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Ok, after reading more posts on the BOD changes, I now realize you can continuously upgrade a BOD all the way from Iron to Valorite.

I have to say I'm not so sure about that. I was thinking you could only upgrade a BOD once and that you were able to choose which part of the BOD was upgraded. I hadn't had a chance to get on TC myself yet.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

Remember that reforging eats A LOT of charges, so it will be impossible to craft a single useful piece without burning several hammers, so even though the hammers will get cheaper, the overall cost will probably be nearly the same.

 

[Njjj]

I don't have any problem with making useful items more accessible. But I also understand there are others who feel differently. But please consider that even with reforging, from what I've s seen on tc, you are not likely to get a really great item from only 15 charges, due to the randomness that still exists. Unless you're lucky, you'll have to burn several hammers. So the payoff just isn't there for an item that is so hard to get that you can actively play the system for 14 years and not get one. Sure it's nice to have for bragging rights, but that was not it's intended purpose.

My general position though is if items are going to make such a large difference in gameplay, they should be available to anyone willing to put some effort into getting them. And I couldn't agree more with the statement above about players having less time to play now. This is a mature game with mature players. I think it's a smart move to cater to them.

 

[frostbolt]

Ok, after reading more posts on the BOD changes, I now realize you can continuously upgrade a BOD all the way from Iron to Valorite.

I have to say I'm not so sure about that. I was thinking you could only upgrade a BOD once and that you were able to choose which part of the BOD was upgraded. I hadn't had a chance to get on TC myself yet.

does it matter? a gold sink is a gold sink. and they want runic crafting tools to be more accessible because obviously these changes were aimed at bringing the other crafting skills up to par with imbuing as well as to increase the synergy between them and imbuing.

so perhaps you would burn a crafting tool to create a weapon that may only hold 4 properties but can have a ssi cap of 40 or something instead of 30.

if blacksmithing, tailoring, fletching are to become as widely used and an integral part of the crafting process then naturally increasing the availability of runic tools is a must

 

[Apetul]

The idea is brilliant.

* Hardcore players with so many bods will not need to spend alot of gold to get a val (or any other) hammer.
* Normal players will need to spend a bit more but they will get the hammers way cheaper compared to luna/scripters prices.
* Scripters will need to sell for cheap
Most important
* Some % of gold goes to a gold sink.

BOD changes helps the economy a bit and reduce the scripters profit.

 

[Storm]

i like the changes mostly here is a example of what i think is a problem

I put .1 smithing on a character (easy for anyone to do) went and got a bod for a shield
spent 2800 gold to get it to a pof bod

now of course to fill the bod will take a little more bs but not much

same kinda thing to get hammers

then anyone can use the hammers and not need any smithing

solution you can only raise the bod to types you can smith

make the hammers usable with the needed amount for there color

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

if blacksmithing, tailoring, fletching are to become as widely used and an integral part of the crafting process then naturally increasing the availability of runic tools is a must

Well, if the posts in the TC forum are accurate, I haven't been on TC myself yet, then you don't even need the skills to use the new re-forging system. Now that makes no sense whatsoever.

And.. I didn't say it's bad or don't do it. I said I wasn't sure about it yet.

 

[EvilPixieWorks]

Totally agreed!

I played with this business this morning. Very unimpressive. A massive gold sink for almost zero reward. That’s all it is. I ‘was’ trying to look at this as something like an improvement... but I don’t think so. Very disappointing.

Whatever generation of staff it was that did the tailoring system did such a bad job of it, they swore they would never do another crafting BOD system. Basically, they blamed us for their failure. So, no tinkering, no alchemy, no bow-crafting... nothing else. This must be the answer for being too lax in creating another BOD system.

I collect on 3 crafters a day, casually... not addicted... reason why is to get odd colored smithing BODs to help keep Lord/Lady titles up. Something the staff designed to degrade... after they kept changing the rules to keep crafters from gaining fame in combat. My crafters used to be able to kill Ogre Lords, all got fame titles the old fashion way. The odd powder of fortification is NICE... but to spend extra money to get 100 yards of cloth in this bribing gold sink? That’s the stupidest idea ever. You could never make the money back selling the cloth? Nope. I don’t use the smithing hammers... they just go on my vendors. So... I for one, will not be changing anything... not be sinking any gold... and if I don’t get colored BODs... I’ll stop collecting all together.


By the way... if anyone really knows prices of selling smithing BODs... could you please PM me what you normally sell the weapon ones for? I guess now, we should consider the normal iron armor ones. I also want to unload the dull coppers... so I need 3 prices. I’m on Atlantic shard, if that helps.

 

[Barok]

i like the changes mostly here is a example of what i think is a problem

I put .1 smithing on a character (easy for anyone to do) went and got a bod for a shield
spent 2800 gold to get it to a pof bod

With only .1 smithing you won't be able to fill the bod. You need the same level of smithing to work higher metals as you do to mine them.

 

[Storm]

With only .1 smithing you won't be able to fill the bod. You need the same level of smithing to work higher metals as you do to mine them.

yes true but that also means i can send 6 of my seven characters out and collect and upgrade them for a smith to do and anyone can use the hammers is the big thing to me

thats 24 bods at least per day able to be upgraded to reward status whether its pofs or hammers etc

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Getting a val hammer through the old system was VERY hard and something like an ultimate goal.

While I certainly agree with that, I feel the goal should actually be attainable, and to the majority of players, instead of the few. The change encourages more people to use an already in-place system and get something out of it, and somewhat quicker than 10-15 yrs. With the huge amount of not-for-sale bods on vendors, that makes them crap. so Trash to Treasure.


bad part (for me) - my Weapon bod book was the only one I named in HTML color, who knew?

 

[arkanos]

its a great change. accessibility is good, ease of use is good.
a crafting item that 99.999 % of people can't get might as well not exist at all.

If you have billions of gold as you claim, you don't even need to "climb mount everest". Using that analogy you can just build a staircase up to the top of the mountain with your money. Being that you are rich there already is no challenge so just buy a valorite hammer or the necessary bods with your gold.

Whether or not this change exists, there's no difference for you. You already have the option of buying it with gold which you choose not to take, so logically with the change you would continue to choose to get the bods by "sticking to the old way" cause that is technically what you were doing already. (as in not taking a shortcut by using your gold)

There is already a ropeway going up to the top of the mountain for the wealthy (gold) which you have in abundance. Therefore the reasoning you give for not having motivation to do bods anymore due to a new way to the top being opened up makes no sense, because you already have access to the ropeway of gold to the top of everest. All you are suggesting is to make it harder for everyone who do not have the luxury of mass amounts of gold.

Unless of course you are one of those people with the unique snowflake syndrome and you think that other people getting the hammer affects you in some negative way.

I am sorry, but you did not get my point at all, and I thought I was pretty clear.

Yes, I can buy any runic hammer in game, but I don´t want to buy it. I want to achieve it through in game mechanics. This was the main reason to do Bods really.
You are saying that I can simply buy what I want. But I actually like PLAYING the game. I could probably pay several people to do peerless for me, and give me the crimson once it drops. Or just buy as many crimsons as I need. But I don´t want to do this. I want to experience how it feels when a crimson drops for you after you defeated the boss. Don´t you get the difference?

Being rich means there is no challenge because I can buy the items? You are so wrong! It is not about HAVING items, it is about HOW TO GET THEM. Getting to know all the aspects of the game does not happen by buying stuff! I am not playing this game to collect pixels, I am playing this game to have fun, invest time and want to be rewarded by achievements. And simply clicking on a button to "donate" money is not fun and challenging.

And yes, I do think it is a good idea to make runic tools more useful compared to imbuing. But now it seems you can simply buy what you want.

And please beleive me, I am the first player on my shard to congratulate aynone who achieves anything he set himself as a goal. I wish you all the val hammers you can get if you dedicate yourself to the task.

I always say about UO:
if I cannot get something rare through playing the game (not simply buying it) I probably don´t really need to have it...

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[Omnius]

I do bods only occasionally and from time to time. I've had no issue obtaining multiple valorite hammers doing bods. You might be doing something wrong.

 

[frostbolt]

Well, if the posts in the TC forum are accurate, I haven't been on TC myself yet, then you don't even need the skills to use the new re-forging system. Now that makes no sense whatsoever.

And.. I didn't say it's bad or don't do it. I said I wasn't sure about it yet.

I think what people are complaining about here is more about how the runics are obtained, and their availability to the masses. For me i don't care if they make it so runics can only be used by associated crafters and in fact it would make the most sense if the goal is to make the crafting skills useful again.

What matters is that with the changes to crafting, runics should become easier to get, cheaper, and more widely available so that i can actually use my crafters for something more than just making a base item of exceptional quality for imbuing.

valorite runics and any other runics for that matter should not be a status item, if they want to make the other crafting skills on par with imbuing.

After all the purpose of crafting is to craft, and if the tools for crafting are too rare or too valuable to be used for anything other than deco, then its not serving its purpose.

I am sorry, but you did not get my point at all, and I thought I was pretty clear.

Yes, I can buy any runic hammer in game, but I don´t want to buy it. I want to achieve it through in game mechanics. This was the main reason to do Bods really.
You are saying that I can simply buy what I want. But I actually like PLAYING the game. I could probably pay several people to do peerless for me, and give me the crimson once it drops. Or just buy as many crimsons as I need. But I don´t want to do this. I want to experience how it feels when a crimson drops for you after you defeated the boss. Don´t you get the difference?

Being rich means there is no challenge because I can buy the items? You are so wrong! It is not about HAVING items, it is about HOW TO GET THEM. Getting to know all the aspects of the game does not happen by buying stuff! I am not playing this game to collect pixels, I am playing this game to have fun, invest time and want to be rewarded by achievements. And simply clicking on a button to "donate" money is not fun and challenging.

And yes, I do think it is a good idea to make runic tools more useful compared to imbuing. But now it seems you can simply buy what you want.

And please beleive me, I am the first player on my shard to congratulate aynone who achieves anything he set himself as a goal. I wish you all the val hammers you can get if you dedicate yourself to the task.

I always say about UO:
if I cannot get something rare through playing the game (not simply buying it) I probably don´t really need to have it...

Hephaistos of Europa

Sooo just do it the old way then. you may say not to tell you to do it the old way because the top of the mountain would be crowded with people, but honestly it shouldn't matter to you since you claim to want the journey instead of the reward.

So therefore why does it matter if other people have it if you are only doing bods for personal gratification from achieving the valorite hammer through a certain method?

Unless of course you are contradicting yourself and what you really care about is the reward and who has it, and not the experience of doing it yourself.

How many people would climb Mt. Everest if there was a ropeway going up? Even if it was expensive... Even the diehards would not, because the peak would be crowded with tourists and it would not feel special anymore.

here you are implying that the reward and who has it matters to you. and that you would not be motivated if other people got there through an alternate method.

Being rich means there is no challenge because I can buy the items? You are so wrong! It is not about HAVING items, it is about HOW TO GET THEM. Getting to know all the aspects of the game does not happen by buying stuff! I am not playing this game to collect pixels, I am playing this game to have fun, invest time and want to be rewarded by achievements. And simply clicking on a button to "donate" money is not fun and challenging.

In this paragraph you contradict yourself.
You say you are playing for the journey and not the end reward. Then in the same paragraph you say that you want to be rewarded for your time investment. So therefore you are playing for the reward, for the achievements which happen to be "items"? It is important to you that you get your reward in the end.

You claim you are playing for the personal challenge and how you get the items matter, but why does it matter to you how other people get them?

If the end reward truly doesn't matter to you and you are playing for the journey, then who has the reward shouldn't matter to you either. And if who has the reward doesn't matter then the number of people on the top of the mountain shouldn't matter.

Therefore i conclude that you are confused about what you actually want, because even though you claim to not care about having items, you actually want to be rewarded with them. And while you claim to play for the journey and for the feeling of getting an item yourself, you care about how many other people have the items as well.

I associate this state of mind with the raiding environment in vanilla world of warcraft during which all people claimed to be raiding for fun, and not for items. And yet items were obviously the reason people played because people do not raid otherwise if the upgrades were not there. This along with all sorts of drama that occur over the distribution of said items prove that people were playing for the items all along and not simply for the "fun" of clearing the same dungeon (or in this case doing bod turn ins and the distribution of runics) over and over again.

That one can claim that they are only playing for the journey while at the same time care about the reward and how many other people can get it is a state of delusion and lies. It is more honest to admit that you play for loot than to say that you are playing for the journey because at the same time you are complaining about how other people are able to get items that only the upper percentile could previously get. If you are only in it for the fun of it and for the personal experience of getting an item, then do it the old way and disregard the fact that others can get it more easily now.

I much prefer the more honest now where everyone can finally openly acknowledge that they are playing for loot and not be called a loot ***** (vanilla wow reference) because in the end anyone who expects to be rewarded for their efforts are playing for the loot (in your case the achievement which happens to be in the form of an item) and not just the journey or the experience. These people cannot claim to be only playing for the joy of the grind and personal satisfaction while at the same time complaining about how others are having an easier time getting loot they had to get under different circumstances without committing all sorts of ideological contractions.

And please beleive me, I am the first player on my shard to congratulate aynone who achieves anything he set himself as a goal. I wish you all the val hammers you can get if you dedicate yourself to the task.

Once the changes go through, doing it the old way will become the goal that you will set for yourself.

In other words achieve what you want using your own methods, and stop worrying about what other people are doing, if you really only care about challenging yourself.

What other people are doing and how many times they are rewarded for it doesn't matter because you would know that you were able to get the end reward the hard way, and that is as much satisfaction as anyone who is playing for the personal journey should want.

 

[Nyses]

yes true but that also means i can send 6 of my seven characters out and collect and upgrade them for a smith to do and anyone can use the hammers is the big thing to me

thats 24 bods at least per day able to be upgraded to reward status whether its pofs or hammers etc

Except that if the BOD you get happens to be a weapon, you still cannot upgrade it to anything useful, unless you consider prospecting tools and garg picks useful. the type of item does not change. I have only seen the quantity, Exceptional type, and material upgrade.

I do agree though, that it seems crazy that any armor BOD can eventually be upgraded to 20 Ex Val BOD. I like the gold sink aspect of it, but perhaps a player smith/tailor should only be able to upgrade 5 or 10 times each day?

 

[frostbolt]

Except that if the BOD you get happens to be a weapon, you still cannot upgrade it to anything useful, unless you consider prospecting tools and garg picks useful. the type of item does not change. I have only seen the quantity, Exceptional type, and material upgrade.

I do agree though, that it seems crazy that any armor BOD can eventually be upgraded to 20 Ex Val BOD. I like the gold sink aspect of it, but perhaps a player smith/tailor should only be able to upgrade 5 or 10 times each day?

A limit already exists

Bulk Order Bribery

Players may now grease the palms of NPCs that give out Bulk Order Deeds
The NPC will accept a bribe from the player in order to upgrade a BOD to a better one
Upgrades: Quantity, Quality, Material
Can only upgrade completely empty deeds
NPCs will become more greedy over time and ask for higher bribes
Higher level deeds also require higher bribes
NPCs who are bribed frequently will come under Guild scrutiny, and stop accepting bribes for a short time
To start the process, select the Bribe context menu option on the NPC, and follow the instructions!

 

[Nyses]

True, there is a bit of a limit, but how many NPC smiths are there in the game? and I think the "short time" they refer to, is only about 15 min, not positive about that one though. Effectively, a player could upgrade hundreds of BODs per day, maybe more. I know it will probably be super busy in the beginning, but there are a lot of NPC smiths out there. I guess it will be one of the best gold sinks in the game.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

So if you get a 10 normal Iron plate BOD, you can upgrade it all the way to 20 Exc Valorite plate. Ok.

It will take two upgrades to 20 count, one upgrade to exceptional and then eight more upgrades to valorite.

So that's eleven upgrades from 10 nrml Iron TO 20 exc Val.

 

[arkanos]

In this paragraph you contradict yourself.
You say you are playing for the journey and not the end reward. Then in the same paragraph you say that you want to be rewarded for your time investment. So therefore you are playing for the reward, for the achievements which happen to be "items"? It is important to you that you get your reward in the end.

Sorry, but this is where you show that you don´t get what I mean really. You read the phrase "want to be rewarded" and you think: reward = items.
I don´t want this to turn into a political discussion, but yes, I consider this a very capitalistic mindset

This is not the reward I am talking about. In all honesty: a val hammer atm is not of incredible use, so hopefully for crafters, the changes what can actually be done with runics will be for the better.

Example: yes, I can take NPC bought weapon and armor and go try to kill an ancient wyrm to make it harder and rewarding if I achieve it. Would I do it? Probably not, because the game provides me with enough possibilities to do it differently (although I have to say, I am starting to think about siege really).
But if the game has no "easy mode" for something, I consider it to be a challenge and want to achieve the goal and be rewarded BY THE FEELING of having done it.
And now easy mode has been implemented, and the quest - only for me personally of course - has been destroyed.

That is all I am saying really.

Oh, and you don´t really seem to get my allegory about climbing, maybe I wasn´t precise enough. I used it because I really do it in RL.
It is simply not possible to buy yourself up certain mountains.
You need to go there yourself.
If I do, and I happen to meet 357 people on the peak, no problem whatsoever. They have taken the same route, and you suddenly feel "connected". They have put in an effort.
And this does not mean that I don´t want anybody else to be able to enjoy the view!
If I go to a place that anybody can reach by paying 30 bucks, yes, it will probably feel less special to me. Maybe it should not, but it does.


If I see someone with a "self earned" val hammer nowadays - and let us please forget duping here for a second here - I assume he has taken a real effort, a long journey to get there. I respect his achievement and I know he has been where I currently find myself. This - in a very kitschy way maybe - also connects people.
I used to be in a guild 11 or 12 years ago. It was called United Blacksmiths of Britannia. You needed to be GM to enter if I remember correctly.
Yes, back in the day it actually made me happy to have achieved the goal of reaching grandmaster level. There were no little "helper programs", skill gain was harder, you had to mine your own ingots (which I still do btw.) and it took you months to get there. People do it in 1-2 days now.
Now, I bet you would say that this is a good thing.
But beleive me, the feelings you have when you actually reach such a goal are - in my oppinion only of course - the main reason why so many people have sticked to this game for such a long time.

Nowadays people want to be able to kill peerless solo in their second weak of playing. And if they cannot - the game "sucks".

The point I really want to make is:
if more and more things in this game are too easy to achieve, too easy to obtain, people will lose interest really fast and just move on.
Because they get to their goals in no time and the feelings in the moment of achievement won´t last long for them. They won´t even remember them.
They will be saturated very fast and will want faster, better, bigger.

And this will hurt the game itself substantially (the Bod change is just one thing of many - I just picked it as an example).

This was the initial reason for making this post.
And not some elitist thinking, as you are trying to point out so hard.

The memories have made this game special - always. There will be fewer with changes like this.

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[Petra Fyde]

Actually, I know of several mountains that have a 'tourist' way up, it doesn't stop mountain climbers from climbing them since it's the actual climbing they enjoy.

Small, possibly irrelevant point. Before you can flood the market with all these high end hammers you have to get the high end ingots to fill them.

 

[arkanos]

You are of course right there Petra.
But it does make a difference and feels very special to the climber if the peak cannot be reached by other means.
Maybe not to the occasional, but for sure to the very dedicated.
And you needed to be very dedicated to get any high end runics until now.

 

[sirion]

This is a GOOD change.

I do BODs on and off like crazy, but have never built verite/valorite hammers. I consider myself sort of rich in UO, I can buy things I need, craft things I need, but was never able to achieve getting those hammers.

For those who getting the hammers, they probably have unusual # of account.

 

[arkanos]

Well, you will be buying them now. Just not from players....

 

[Merion]

solution you can only raise the bod to types you can smith

make the hammers usable with the needed amount for there color

this!

 

[Petra Fyde]

It's not going to be totally straight forward. I have a large bod needs 10 verite plate. Bribing npcs will take the quantity up before the metal type, so I won't be able to bribe that up much. Might be able to bribe up from 10 agapite, but it's more like to go to 15 agapite than 10 verite?

 

[Tjalle]

Seems to me that the sense of achievement will be greatly diminished with this change.

I can understand the wants and needs for more non-duped runics out there but still...

 

[Goodmann]

I haven't done a bod in 15 years but with this new change i think i will. good addition!!!!!!

 

[arkanos]

I haven't done a bod in 15 years but with this new change i think i will. good addition!!!!!!

Being a smartass now, but the above means that you have never done a BOD. Not in this game at least...
Someone correct me if my memory fails me, but they were introduced in 2000, right?

 

[silent]

I like the change.

 

[arkanos]

The idea is brilliant.

* Hardcore players with so many bods will not need to spend alot of gold to get a val (or any other) hammer.
* Normal players will need to spend a bit more but they will get the hammers way cheaper compared to luna/scripters prices.
* Scripters will need to sell for cheap
Most important
* Some % of gold goes to a gold sink.

BOD changes helps the economy a bit and reduce the scripters profit.

If this were true - and I somehow hope you are right - I would second it, but I am afraid I see it differently:

Who do you think will be here to provide all the high end ingots for people suddenly filling high level Bods after they upgraded them?
Yes, it will be Mr. Mumble, your friendly script miner from next door...
They won´t lose a penny...

 

[BeaIank]

I like this change, and I will probably won't even get high end hammers even with it in place as I won't have all the needed gold for that.

See, Legends suffer with a lack of PoF, and I try to fill that niche with cheap prices.
But I can't get enough of it to supply Legends demand because I get few bods that give PoF.
With this I wil have some control over it and build enough stock to supply it and even drop my price further and fill the niche I want to.
This a win-win situation.

 

[Theo_GL]

Ok, after reading more posts on the BOD changes, I now realize you can continuously upgrade a BOD all the way from Iron to Valorite.

I have to say I'm not so sure about that. I was thinking you could only upgrade a BOD once and that you were able to choose which part of the BOD was upgraded. I hadn't had a chance to get on TC myself yet.

Yup. And I thought it would be implemented by offering you a bod and you could choose to accept or bribe before taking it. Instead you target ANY bod in your pack. So any unfilled bods you have NOW can be upgraded. So my book of hundreds of plate bods call all be eventually upgraded to Val runic bods. Val runics about to be as common as horned kits.

*Shrugs*

It is what it is I guess. Instead of minor tweaks to systems to keep them fresh the dev team, with no understanding of history with UO, just keeps railroading through the game completely changing everything. It is what it is I guess.

My suggestion is sell all your runics now as people are snapping them up for the change to crafting. The prices will spike for 1 week until bod completion kicks in and the market is flooded with cheap runics. They will be valued at the cost of the ingots to complete pretty much.

 

[Theo_GL]

And yes, I've got some upgrading to do.... This is my GL bod collection. Not pictured - 4 other shards with bod collections. Each pack/box is full with 100 or more lockdowns so thats 500+ bods in each chest/vendor.

 

[arkanos]

Yup. And I thought it would be implemented by offering you a bod and you could choose to accept or bribe before taking it. Instead you target ANY bod in your pack. So any unfilled bods you have NOW can be upgraded. So my book of hundreds of plate bods call all be eventually upgraded to Val runic bods. Val runics about to be as common as horned kits.

*Shrugs*

It is what it is I guess. Instead of minor tweaks to systems to keep them fresh the dev team, with no understanding of history with UO, just keeps railroading through the game completely changing everything. It is what it is I guess.

My suggestion is sell all your runics now as people are snapping them up for the change to crafting. The prices will spike for 1 week until bod completion kicks in and the market is flooded with cheap runics. They will be valued at the cost of the ingots to complete pretty much.

My thoughts exactly. I have around 40K BODs atm (I inherited some collections from friends that left), I am sure there are at least 5K large armor BODs (they drop rather often). That is 5000 potential valorite hammers and not even very expensive to get after what I found on test..

I agree that a little tweak would not have hurt, but this???

My idea:

Make it at least so ONLY small BODs can be bribed. This would mean that you still need to aquire the large BODs by normal means.
Or maybe large BODs only can be bribed once.
Atm, you only need a filled gold hammer BOD and you have a chance for a val hammer (not that this has ever helped me really).

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Ok, first off a couple disclaimers, I haven't had a chance to get on TC yet; I've been too busy with rl work and other stuff. Second, I've had a few drinks this morning.

Number one I'm ecstatic that BODs have FINALLY received some MUCH needed attention. Honestly, if it weren't for BODs and crafting I probably would have managed to quit this game a long time ago.

I've done BODs, ALMOST, since the beginning. I didn't start for just about exactly one year after they were implemented. I also have probably about maybe twenty-four months of not collecting BODs over the last four years, mostly just due to lack of motivation.

I have fourteen BOD runners over four accounts. One account is completely BOD runners with six Legendary Blacksmith / Tailors.

I've never acquired a Valorite runic hammer thru natural and normal game play and / or trading BODs. I've had a half dozen Verite runic hammers and I would guess well over one-hundred Barbed runic Sewing Kits.

So that tells you how much I've been involved in BODs and the crafting system in UO.

With that said, I'm all for this change to BODs.

I don't think it's perfect but I DO believe it's a step in the right direction.

If it were up to me, I'd limit the number of times a BOD can be upgraded. I'd also allow the user to choose which property to upgrade, i.e. quantity, quality or material.

As far as nostalgia goes and the sense of accomplishment of getting a valorite runic, well I've never got one so I don't know. I remember what GMing a skill was like the first time. How's that compared to GMing a skill today? This game changes and the majority of players playing today have been playing for a long time. Most have never had a valorite hammer. Hell, most have never even had an agapite or verite hammer or even a barbed sewing kit.

This post isn't about re-forging. That's an entirely different topic. This post is about ACQUIRING Valorite runic hammers. The last two changes to the BOD system STILL didn't REALLY put some Valorite hammers into the hands of very many smiths.

Imbuing has made the low-end runics much more desirable than they were before, due to the high cost and difficulty in acquiring some of the rarer ingredients. You can use a low-end runic to craft items and then pick and choose according to ingredient necessity. However, most high-end runics have just sat stagnant and unused.

I think the BOD cache is an AWESOME idea. I know I no longer have the time and opportunity to login, three or four times a day to collect BODs. Nevertheless I have dedicated much time and effort to my blacksmith and tailor characters over the last nine years. For the aging and mature playerbase that UO now has, this is one outstanding change.

NPC Bribery, again, another awesome idea. I'm not sure it's perfect but it's at least a step in the right direction with regards to imbuing and allowing for some equalization between tailoring and blacksmithing.

Re-forging, it's about time we had some more control over what we are making using runic tools. I've mentioned I still haven't had any time to get to TC but I'm hopeful this will be a positive benefit to crafting.

Ok, time to go pour another drink.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Theo, my BOD collection is very similar to yours. I'm over 30 vendors with 100+ item counts of 90% priced BODs and with another 12 vendors holding stock books unpriced.

In an earlier post I said I'd be looking at three or four Valorite hammers but now that I understand you can upgrade continuously, I realize I could potentially be looking at two or three dozen Valorite hammers quite easily. I'm still unsure, debating, whether this is good or bad.

 

[arkanos]

First of all:
reading your words has also convinced me that change was probably needed. At the current rate and without any RNG luck involved I would have probably gotten my first val hammer in around 10 years.

Change was certainly needed for what you can do with runic hammers compared to imbuing - and yes, probably also to the BOD system.

My Bod collection is similar to yours (80 full vendors) and I am sure you are looking at many more than just a couple of dozens of val hammers.


I just made a quick look through my collection and I have more or less 5300 Bods that can be turned into BOD´s giving valorite hammers (this includes Bods that can be turned into gold hammer Bods and above).
If I only count the large platemail BODs that can be turned straight into val hammers, I have around 800.
And if you take time to go through your collection I am sure you will find a similar amount (if you - like me - have never tossed out "unusable" Bods).
Now this sounds just wrong....

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around having dozens of valorite runics compared to eight or nine years of trying to get just one.

I'd rather see change in this direction than continue another who knows how many years before I actually get a valorite runic.

You're right too about the number of val runics. I might just be looking at possibly around 50 or so before gold for bribery becomes a factor.

I guess it will be up to re-forging to determine how this will pan out. The number of charges used seems to be key to the new availability of high-end runics.

 

[Theo_GL]

First of all:
reading your words has also convinced me that change was probably needed. At the current rate and without any RNG luck involved I would have probably gotten my first val hammer in around 10 years.

Change was certainly needed for what you can do with runic hammers compared to imbuing - and yes, probably also to the BOD system.

My Bod collection is similar to yours (80 full vendors) and I am sure you are looking at many more than just a couple of dozens of val hammers.


I just made a quick look through my collection and I have more or less 5300 Bods that can be turned into BOD´s giving valorite hammers (this includes Bods that can be turned into gold hammer Bods and above).
If I only count the large platemail BODs that can be turned straight into val hammers, I have around 800.
And if you take time to go through your collection I am sure you will find a similar amount (if you - like me - have never tossed out "unusable" Bods).
Now this sounds just wrong....

This is just another in a LONG LONG line of 'Good idea/Bad Implementation' history with our dev team.

1 - BOD Books - Good Idea but not having an alpha sort feature or mass price feature? Bad Implementation.
2 - Community Rewards - Good idea but gold to point conversion rate? Bad Implementation.
3 - Mannequin - Good idea but not showing armor stats of wearables added up on teh mannequin? Bad Implementation.
4 - Scroll of Trans book - Good idea but forcing lockdown in a house and not working also in bank box - bad implementation.
5 - Imbuing - Good idea to allow crafters to 'choose' mods but allowing them to SPECIFICALLY make an item every time - bad implementation (killed runics).
6 - Virtues - Good idea to finish them off but decay rate for Justice and making honesty items impossible to find - bad implementation.

etc etc... Too bored to list all the rest....

 

[Prince Erik]

I used to be in a guild 11 or 12 years ago. It was called United Blacksmiths of Britannia. You needed to be GM to enter if I remember correctly.
Yes, back in the day it actually made me happy to have achieved the goal of reaching grandmaster level. There were no little "helper programs", skill gain was harder, you had to mine your own ingots (which I still do btw.) and it took you months to get there. People do it in 1-2 days now.
Now, I bet you would say that this is a good thing.
But beleive me, the feelings you have when you actually reach such a goal are - in my oppinion only of course - the main reason why so many people have sticked to this game for such a long time.

Hephaistos of Europa

Hail, Hephaistos! I too remember those days, especially since I was GM of UBB for quite a while (Roscoe of Chesapeake) and I mourn for their loss as well. That being said I've had to come to terms with the variability of each player's perspective of how easy the game should be made. While one person wants an almost unclimbable mountain to dedicate their life to climbing for the feeling of accomplishment of doing something very few have ever done before, another will happily be satisfied with riding a helicopter up and being dropped off. That same person might find it more interesting to try to ski DOWN it. Others want the mountain eliminated because it's not fair that they, being unable or unwilling to, will never climb it.

There's no right or wrong answer to this - simple majority must rule as keeping the most amount of players happy is generally the best way to keep a struggling game going. Strings of easily accomplished goals are probably the best formula for persistent worlds as it seems to keep the most players happy. I, like you, will probably never do another smithing BOD since I have so much money it doesn't make a difference to me between buying the end results of this entire process (already reforged items) than just buying my way through the BOD system to get the hammer necessary to make them.

Eventually there will not be any mountains to climb for me, and when that happens I'll probably join the many others who have lost whatever was most dear to them in the game and move on. Hopefully the powers that be truly know what's best for the game and their changes bring in more new people rather than old, disenchanted old fogies like myself who slowly trickle away into memory.

-Prince Erik / Roscoe of Chesapeake

 

[Lady Storm]

Any change is good for bods..... I would have liked it alot more if they had spiffed up the rewards. Mind you I use every shoval, pick and powder. But perhaps add a few new things to catch the eye.... even offer it as a choice might help too.

Also make the bod books like the new scroll book, 1 lock down and workable from any chest, floor locked, or backpack to add or remove would have been a great help as well. Have they ever tried to remove a bod from a book that has the limit?? you have to have a completely empty pack to do so. Reduce it to 1 count and you got one fantastic activity. Not to mention less yipping for lockdowns.

 

[Theo_GL]

Any change is good for bods..... I would have liked it alot more if they had spiffed up the rewards. Mind you I use every shoval, pick and powder. But perhaps add a few new things to catch the eye.... even offer it as a choice might help too.

Also make the bod books like the new scroll book, 1 lock down and workable from any chest, floor locked, or backpack to add or remove would have been a great help as well. Have they ever tried to remove a bod from a book that has the limit?? you have to have a completely empty pack to do so. Reduce it to 1 count and you got one fantastic activity. Not to mention less yipping for lockdowns.

Ah yes - we dare to dream! I agree I wish it worked like the scroll book 100%.

I would also like to 'sort alphabetic' and 'price all' to be added. I guess I'm just greedy tho.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Oh god yes! Price all! Yes! Price all! Let me say it again. Price all! OMFG,wouldn't that be the end all be all of improvements to BODs?

Allright I'm toast. I'm going to bed.