New Virtue system Sucks!

[Ender]

If they code Justice so you only lose it at the very end of a spawn, it'd be alright.

But in order to take full advantage you have to kill reds during the spawn? wtf.

 

[Pinco]

If they code Justice so you only lose it at the very end of a spawn, it'd be alright.

But in order to take full advantage you have to kill reds during the spawn? wtf.

you have to kill 1 red per sot/ps (even 105)/stat scroll... in short you must pay the reward with blood

 

[Nyses]

you have to kill 1 red per sot/ps (even 105)/stat scroll... in short you must pay the reward with blood

That is not right, according to the spawn I did yesterday. I got a total of 9 protection scrolls between pinks and powerscrolls and lost one dot. I was not maxed, because of prior decay. It was a solo spawn.

I did get the message that I lost Justice, each time a scroll dropped, but it seems to have been a fraction of one dot. I will let you know after another spawn, I am all maxed out on Justice now.

 

[G.v.P]

It is apparently worse than we feared; you also lose Compassion when ressurecting someone's Pet too. I just returned to life someone's Swampie at Luna bank, and even that act of kindness was punished. I'm not sure how much by, as I was at the Compassion cap and I didn't see a bulb disappear, but still... *sighs*

What...since when does compassion apply to pet rez...guess I must have missed that one.

 

[Nyses]

Ok, I just finished another Champ spawn. I went in with Maxed Justice (the 2 kills above max). I received one pink scroll and all 6 protection scrolls from the champ. Upon checking my Justice again, it still shows knight. So, it seems that I lost less than 2 dots for the 7 scrolls.

As best I can tell, you lose about 1 dot of Justice per 5 or 6 scrolls, but I really hope it is more like 8. That way you could do a Harrower, and as long as you were totally maxed, you would still get all 16 protection scrolls.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Did you just say you soloed a champ spawn ?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Yeah, the Justice issue about loosing it when receiving Powerscrolls is no big deal, it will be a small bonus for players actually killing reds and not for organized PK guilds anymore. With the number of PS on the market it's still ok to *just* receive normal scrolls without protecting anyway. Although I would suggest than protector should loose less Justice when receiving a 110 and more when receiving a 120.

Overall I'm not at all against the fact that you loose the Virtue when you actually you use it (and for RP guys they can keep it by not using it). However in that case 2 things need to be addressed immediately: 1) Stop ALL form of decay immediately, especially regarding Honor at high level 2) Find a solution regarding Compassion, because to loose it when you rez someone is plainly stupid in the first place.

Whoa! ... I mean >REALLY !?!?!<

Allow me to save about four pages of typing and put it MOST succinctly in This manner:
Both paragraphs are answered with ONE question:

Where is the Justice in that?

The second paragraph is also entitled to this question:
You actually want to benefit From >compassion< AND
do so at >no cost< ??

Me senses a few "non-virtuous" attributes here
Sloth
Greed
pride
gluttony ...

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

This is bitter for me so I'll add this one very relevant humor quote and just say I'm glad they're working on the virtues, but please correct the trajectory !

[while burning the Narrator's hand with lye]
Tyler Durden: Shut up! Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God?
Narrator: No, no, I... don't...
Tyler Durden: Listen to me! You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen.
Narrator: It isn't?
Tyler Durden: We don't need him!

 

[Winker]

That is not right, according to the spawn I did yesterday. I got a total of 9 protection scrolls between pinks and powerscrolls and lost one dot. I was not maxed, because of prior decay. It was a solo spawn.

I did get the message that I lost Justice, each time a scroll dropped, but it seems to have been a fraction of one dot. I will let you know after another spawn, I am all maxed out on Justice now.

You are correct, it only drops a small amount each scroll. But it drops enough to put you back into follower of Justice before you get ALL 12 of the power scrolls.

As its been said earlier, you stand 0 chance of getting ALL the scrolls at a Harry with 1 person protecting.

Here is hoping they got a new bunch of Idiots to write Star wars The Old republic and not the bunch we have making the dessions on UO

 

[Wizal the Fox]

Whoa! ... I mean >REALLY !?!?!<

Allow me to save about four pages of typing and put it MOST succinctly in This manner:
Both paragraphs are answered with ONE question:

Where is the Justice in that?

The second paragraph is also entitled to this question:
You actually want to benefit From >compassion< AND
do so at >no cost< ??

Me senses a few "non-virtuous" attributes here
Sloth
Greed
pride
gluttony ...

I hardly see what your problem is dude. Learn to read!

Justice is that when you kill murderers you gain in Justice, then receive a chance of a bonus scroll when you protect, and if you do actually use that chance your Justice decreases. So what? Not Happy? You want more? Like doubling systematically all the scrolls with a protector on a dummy account and without loosing any point of Justice like it was? Look in mirror to see who is greedy here.

And where do I say that I want to benefit from compassion at no cost??? I merely said that they have to find a solution because loosing compassion when you rez someone or a pet is completely absurd. Rezzing people is a common act in the game. Next what? We loose Valor when we run or fly instead of walking?

 

[Adol]

I hardly see what your problem is dude. Learn to read!

It's Fahyled, what do you expect? But to answer the incoherent questions, Compassion was at least one of the more accurate virtuous mechanisms, in that you have to spend a considerable time raising it, by escorting NPCs for less financial reward than I'd get from just sitting in the Painted Caves. There was also a cap on how many escorts you can do in a day, so you cannot just power to Knight. Then the benefits of the virtue itself go to someone else, in the form of health returned upon resurrection.

It is not that I want the benefits to someone else to be free, but that the potential for it to be impossible to maintain for the helping of others is worrying.

However, last night at an EM event, I resurrected 8 people and 2 pets, and don't seem yet to have come down to losing a bubble below Knight. But I also don't know how far into the new overflow I was, as I'd been doing a lot of escorting in between bringing bags of monster loot back for Spring Cleaning.

 

[5% Luck]

As far as justice goes, note i am not happy but, we as a community are saturated with pinks. I mean what vendor house have you been to in the last month that does not have 40+pinks stocked. Do a search. Youll find an SoT for any skill right now! That said, I dont think this was the proper way to handle that situation although I for one think SoTs should be abundant. Maybe that was the "thinking" behind this change.

The Compassion virtue was a nightmare to work up as it was now... its not even feasible. I regularly do slashers, fel champs, peerless and, stygian dragons with a group. Anyone who does these knows each player in the group dies a few times a night. In a group doing some of the harder spots, we see players die upwards of 6 times each a night. With a group of 6(average number here) thats 36 reses. The way we run one player typically is the "healer" and does "most" of the ressing. 36!!! not 3 not 4 but 36 before we lose knight. Another thing here is the insurance gold. I know geting res killed sux but from a gold removing bias this virtue prevents about 1/2 of all res kills. Nerfing it may be better for the economy.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

HONOR
- Before: extremely hard to raise at high level on non-dexxers, but was not decaying when not used (honoring yourself) so still ok to do for the fun if you were not actually using the ability
- Now: Same but I can confirm that it now also decays, as my 2 former Knights Of Honor are not Knights anymore. So better forget about it on non-dexxers because it had taken me weeks to finish on them and I'm not going to redo it again now that it decays.
- Conclusion: Big nerf here. The virtue will now only be used by Samurais.

JUSTICE
- Before: easy to raise by cheating (killing willingful reds) but painful to normally raise and maintain if not PvPing 100% of the time. It was decaying at the rate of 1 dot per week (very annoying when you don't play the char much) but at least you were not loosing it by using it.
- Now: Same, but now you also loose it at each PS you receive and I don't know if it is intended or not. One could consider that there are already too many PS in the game and that people were not using the virtue as it was intended (a bonus, not a way to farm). However since it also decays you can't even realistically maintain it just for fun on non-pure PvP chars, even if decay rate is somehow slower.
- Conclusion: Big nerf here

VALOR
- Before: Consumed when used and decayed, but was extremely easy and fast to raise.
- Now: Same. Maybe decay slower, but it will have no impact. I would still prefer that it was not decaying at all so at least you could keep it on chars that you don't play too often.
- Conclusion: No changes

SACRIFICE
- Before: Was decaying. Use limited to 3 times per week but not consuming the virtue.
- Now: Can now be used more than 3 times per week but then it starts consuming the virtue. Still decays (maybe at a lower rate but this has basically no impact)
- Conclusion: A nice boost in the ability to use it more than 3 times per week, but at a huge cost. Still impossible to maintain on non-PvM chars (ie: crafters or PvPers) or chars you don't play much, because of the decay.

COMPASSION
- Before: Painful to raise on chars who couldn't gate, especially since daily gain was limited. Decaying was a real pain but at least you were not loosing it when using it (resurrecting other people)
- Now: Same but you now loose everytime you resurect someone, so this virtue which was already of little use is now completely useless. And it still decays (even if at a lower rate, which remains to be seen) so don't even think of maintaining it just for fun.
- Conclusion: Big nerf here

HONESTY
- Before: Not existing
- Now: Not enough experience to tell exactly
- Conclusion: No conclusion yet

GENERAL CONCLUSION:
3 Virtues nerfed into oblivion, 1 basically unchanged, 1 boosted (and it was already the most useful one). Those changes make absolutely no sense to me. One would ask oneself what the devs were thinking.

And btw tweaking the decay rate is useless as people are planning on the long term: it should either decay or not decay. A slow decay rate has no purpose and just gives a huge penalty to people who takes long breaks.

Assuming these changes were all intended, which seems likely, I think I understand what's going on.

They want all the Virtues to decay with time at approximately the same rate, and to be lost when their associated power is used.

This will, perhaps, make it easier to add new ones? (Keep the skeleton, swap out the meat.) And it also means that every Virtue can have a consistent set of expectations. And it also means that would-be Knights of Virtue will have to specifically work at it rather than maintain it casually.

Those are the advantages.

The most-immediate disadvantage of course is that systems we've had and found useful and relied upon for years are nerfed for no obvious reason.

Beyond that, the other disadvantage is best-seen when the Compassion Virtue is examined. Using the power associated with Compassion shows Compassion, and thus in essence you lose the Compassion Virtue for displaying Compassion. Sure sometimes you rez for your own benefit. But you also rez for others' benefit. I think Martyna's already point out the degree to which this messes up rezzing at EM events. Will I stop rezzing at those events? Surely not. But it's discouraging to get penalized for it.

If the Virtue were easier to raise and if the outdated limit on how many escorts you could do in a day were not present it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

I'll be blunt here: While I do not like the changes I understand them much more upon reflection.

I do think, however, that if the Virtues will decay like this they should be easier to get somewhat. For example, partial Justice upon doing damage to a red who later dies. (I have many times seen a red kill himself rather than get killed by me, presumably to deny me the gold and Justice.) And removing the outmoded Compassion gain timer.

I also am playing around with the idea that there should be a way to get Honor through PvP, and Justice through PvM.

But that's another story.

-Galen's player

 

[Mirt]

I agree completely Galen if your going to drop the numbers we are going to need to be able to gain them easier and faster or there will be no way to keep them up. That being said I am not entirely sure they meant to do what they did to compassion I suspect that they just didn't think.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Using the power associated with Compassion shows Compassion, and thus in essence you lose the Compassion Virtue for displaying Compassion.

doesn't seem realistic to me, imagine if that happened IRL - lose compassion for being compassionate? Naw

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

If the Virtue were easier to raise and if the outdated limit on how many escorts you could do in a day were not present it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

I also am playing around with the idea that there should be a way to get Honor through PvP, and Justice through PvM.

Agreed.

The timer on Compassion gaining escorts should go away, as it doesn't add anything 'fun' and is only there to annoy. The limit of 5 per day should also be removed as it is an arbitrary barrier. The compassion Sage potion drop rate could also be bumped up. DEFINATELY remove the penalty for rezzing soneone, it's just idiotic.

There should be a way to gain Honor in PvP... Say by not using specials or not running away (this would be hard to track, though could be based on being within X tiles of your opponent 90% of the fight) i.e. stand and fight honorably.

PvM Justice... Killing a LOT of brigands, executioners, or evil mages (anything red-named). And by a lot, say two-three times what it takes to gain Valor off shadow wisps.

The gain limit for Sacrifice should also be removed, especially since there are ways around it (Hag Quest being one)... If someone can gain fame to Glorious Lord/Lady a few times a day then they should be able to sacrifice it several times.

Also, and I will repeat this till blue in the face, increase the spawn on 'lost' items dramatically.

 

[AtlanticVlad]

Losing Compassion on pet resing is insane especially since the pets don't res with the extra health still... Id love that option always thought I should be able to compassion res my pets... but losing compassion for it when there's a 5 min timer to gain and a cap on how much I can gain is to painful.

 

[Mirt]

The timer on Compassion gaining escorts should go away, as it doesn't add anything 'fun' and is only there to annoy. The limit of 5 per day should also be removed as it is an arbitrary barrier. The compassion Sage potion drop rate could also be bumped up. DEFINATELY remove the penalty for rezzing soneone, it's just idiotic.

There should be a way to gain Honor in PvP... Say by not using specials or not running away (this would be hard to track, though could be based on being within X tiles of your opponent 90% of the fight) i.e. stand and fight honorably.

PvM Justice... Killing a LOT of brigands, executioners, or evil mages (anything red-named). And by a lot, say two-three times what it takes to gain Valor off shadow wisps.

The gain limit for Sacrifice should also be removed, especially since there are ways around it (Hag Quest being one)... If someone can gain fame to Glorious Lord/Lady a few times a day then they should be able to sacrifice it several times.

Also, and I will repeat this till blue in the face, increase the spawn on 'lost' items dramatically.

Thank you. You managed to hit the nail on the head exactly. I think switching to this will make the system both more accessible and easier to use for us all. Of course you can gain compassion without any timer by doing the bravehorn quest. That being said removing the arbitrary 5 per day limit will be immensely helpful.

 

[Mervyn]

I like the change

As a red guild, i feel we got a hard bargain having to do twice as many champs as blue guilds, or having to bring in a couple of blues just to do the boss to make sure you get scrolls.

This decreases the gap between reds and blues and makes the game more fair. I mean, there were people running about multiboxing and soloing a champ and just having their protector on a stealther in another dungeon on the same server line. Prior to this patch, Justice was OP

Signed Vermyn

 

[Wizal the Fox]

I do think, however, that if the Virtues will decay like this they should be easier to get somewhat. For example, partial Justice upon doing damage to a red who later dies. (I have many times seen a red kill himself rather than get killed by me, presumably to deny me the gold and Justice.) And removing the outmoded Compassion gain timer.

I like that idea. If doing damage to a red was giving some Justice instead of having to kill him all the way, the new loose-when-you-use would be mostly ok for Justice.

Still, they have to do something regarding Compassion. I think they should plainly remove the link between Compassion and normally resurrecting someone, and just add the ability to rez by invoking the virtue. In that case there would be a real benefit to using it (ability to rez someone to full health without magery/chivalry/healing) but people could actually have a control over it. In that case loosing Compassion when invoking the virtue would be acceptable.

Also again, they have to do away with the decay. Now that all virtues are lost upon use, decay only penalizes the players who can't play much.

 

[Kayne]

I also am playing around with the idea that there should be a way to get Honor through PvP, and Justice through PvM.

But that's another story.

-Galen's player

I am not a fel player. I am a carebear and happy to admit it. This does mean that I cannot raise Justice at all. Even if you are a pvp'er you can still fight in an honourable fashion so I agree that both justice and honour should be able to be raised via PvM and PvP respectively

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Killing a murderer is justice...

what a great thing to teach kids... what if the purported murderer was only trying to save his life, and we found out after killing him ? to me killing someone that is guilty is freeing him from his guilt.

Even in the USA alone not all agree that the death penalty should even exist, and there is no permanent res penalty anymore in game, the guy just reses 10 mins later and rinces and repeats...

Whats the "justice" in that ?

 

[Kayne]

to me killing someone that is guilty is freeing him from his guilt.

I agree entirely, murderers should NOT get the easy way out. Why should they be freed from the misery of being confined to jail for life.

HOWEVER we are talking about a completely fictional game that doesn't rely on real world concepts. I don't walk down the street with my name floating above my head in blue showing that I don't kill people. Likewise I don't see people with red names over their head because they killed someone.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I realise that it was just an alliteration...

the virtues and community dynamics = tied together intimately

Justice is about killing a red that is willingly causing trouble, that was identified, that received a fair "trial" in which a forensics evaluator or a witness can confirm the murderer's guilt.

There is nothing that should be random about virtues...

It's the same thing than farming items that were purposefully lost and that have no other value than their weight in honesty.

I dunno if if at least you could sell the item to thieves for 10k... then returning it might show a BIT of honesty... but then again whats 10k gold ?

 

[Kayne]

If you are going to use the english language then please at least understand the meaning of the words you wish to use.
"alliteration refers to the repetition of a particular sound in the first syllables of a series of words and/or phrases." (sorry but pet peeve when words are used completely wrongly)

The items spawning for the honesty change are not purposefully lost. Well on a technical level they were created as lost items and therefore done purposefully. But in fiction which is what the game is the items were lost by their owners accidentally and we are helping by returning them.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Dude... you don't have to explain me what I just said... the whole point of a fantasy is for it to make sense do you don't feel like a silly clown doing it (especially if its hard and frustrating)...

Sorry I'm natively french speaking and the word in french has a meaning that is close to the meaning of "metaphor"...

now I hope that means something...

 

[Kayne]

Sorry Ahua its been a very long few days and language use bugs me sometimes.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Totally understandable... thanks for your HONESTY...

I'LL TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT !

 

[Kayne]

I hope that my rank doesn't decay too fast now that I've gained some points.

The Honest Kayne

 

[Ender]

Killing a murderer is justice...

what a great thing to teach kids... what if the purported murderer was only trying to save his life, and we found out after killing him ? to me killing someone that is guilty is freeing him from his guilt.

Even in the USA alone not all agree that the death penalty should even exist, and there is no permanent res penalty anymore in game, the guy just reses 10 mins later and rinces and repeats...

Whats the "justice" in that ?

Yes, obviously he was trying to save his life by attacking an innocent first. Several times.

 

[unified]

Not to disagree, but more to raise a point many mightn't be aware of; you can use Crystal Portals for escorts

I thought Crystal Portals had to be locked down in your house to use them. How do you get the traveler to your house?

 

[Gheed]

I agree there should be multiple ways to raise all virtues. Since the begining we had towns tied to virtue, and anti-virtue dungeons. I always thought there was real potential there to work these extremely under-utilized areas into the virtue system in something more than dropping off folks' lost stuff. What a waste New Magincia was.

 

[G.v.P]

The timer on Compassion gaining escorts should go away, as it doesn't add anything 'fun' and is only there to annoy. The limit of 5 per day should also be removed as it is an arbitrary barrier. The compassion Sage potion drop rate could also be bumped up. DEFINATELY remove the penalty for rezzing soneone, it's just idiotic.

The timer isn't awful because it allows a group of people access to the same spawn at the same time given the 5 minute wait. Without a timer, and especially without a cap, one person could monopolize the NPCs. However, due to the loss of Compassion, as it is now, the cap makes it so an active user cannot balance loss. Either the cap should be removed or the loss should be removed. If you remove the cap and remove loss then I wouldn't remove the timer. Except, Bravehorn has no timer, which has been mentioned, I believe, in this thread. Prisoners, of course, used to have no timer as well, but they were fixed.

There should be a way to gain Honor in PvP... Say by not using specials or not running away (this would be hard to track, though could be based on being within X tiles of your opponent 90% of the fight) i.e. stand and fight honorably.

Perhaps Honor could be gained by winning duels, if they ever finish Arenas? Perhaps a 5 minute wait and a Honor gain bonus based on the fame of the opponent.

PvM Justice... Killing a LOT of brigands, executioners, or evil mages (anything red-named). And by a lot, say two-three times what it takes to gain Valor off shadow wisps.

If the red-named things were all in Fel, I'd be more on board. But I really don't know if I'd want to see the goal of this virtue changed.

The gain limit for Sacrifice should also be removed, especially since there are ways around it (Hag Quest being one)... If someone can gain fame to Glorious Lord/Lady a few times a day then they should be able to sacrifice it several times.

Like Compassion, this bypass should be fixed or considered in a future change. Prior to the decay/loss changes, Tier 1 Sacrifice was not very hard to acquire despite the one-per-day cap.

Also, and I will repeat this till blue in the face, increase the spawn on 'lost' items dramatically.

Yep. Hehe.

 

[G.v.P]

Totally understandable... thanks for your HONESTY...

I'LL TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT !

aw...I want a bubble, too...;(

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Yes, obviously he was trying to save his life by attacking an innocent first. Several times.

You laugh but theres really no way to tell, and you make yourself a bit simplistic by not getting it... or you have never played before trammel or on siege (doubtful)

I know someone who turn red because a guild would kill his smith miner non stop.

The poor folk turned his best character into a red that defends his other character, but by no means deserves to die.

In fact it would be injustice to kill him.

Guilty until proven innocent and not even give a chance to prove himself innocent...

thats is the very definition of injustice...

 

[Pinco]

You laugh but theres really no way to tell, and you make yourself a bit simplistic by not getting it... or you have never played before trammel or on siege (doubtful)

I know someone who turn red because a guild would kill his smith miner non stop.

The poor folk turned his best character into a red that defends his other character, but by no means deserves to die.

In fact it would be injustice to kill him.

Guilty until proven innocent and not even give a chance to prove himself innocent...

thats is the very definition of injustice...

mmm
pirates hunting quest could get you gain justice, this way they will have a use on this world

 

[MalagAste]

mmm
pirates hunting quest could get you gain justice, this way they will have a use on this world

That's a good idea!

 

[Poo]

earlier on in this thread they talked about how Justice took a hit, you where getting nailed a jewel for each scroll you got as a protector.

i did a champ the other night on ATL and i didnt have this happen to me.

did a fix go through allready for this?
or is this one of those hit or miss bugs?

 

[Mirt]

The pirate hunt is a good idea. Also Reds in UO have decided to cast off the virtues. That was a game play decision that they made. There is no use whining over it. Additionally you must never have found out that you do not go red until you kill 5 people. Even then your numbers decrease over time. Lets not pretend our reds are anything other then murders because that is what they are titled.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

*mini-facepalm*

was my syntax that bad... or this is YET another guy deciding what is true in the extreme and saying everyone else is wrong.

Sorry dawg, ima let you finish... and I really like u but u gotta know... you are using sophism !

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Personally, I'm confused by Compassion. I resurrected someone yesterday (a blue [in Trammel!]), and I lost Compassion somehow. Resurrecting poor dead people is basically the definition of Compassion.

Not only that but I rezzed someone's pet in tram and lost compassion. Reckon folks are SOL on pet rezzes, better head to the stables from now on.

 

[Kayne]

I agree there should be multiple ways to raise all virtues. Since the begining we had towns tied to virtue, and anti-virtue dungeons. I always thought there was real potential there to work these extremely under-utilized areas into the virtue system in something more than dropping off folks' lost stuff. What a waste New Magincia was.

THIS.

Why can you not gain in virtue by killing the horrors that infest the very place that opposes that virtue. Why is there not some way in the town of that virtue that you cannot gain extra via that town.

Why does sacrifice only work on monsters - a good use for sacrifice could be sacrificing your fame/sacrifice points/something else for the good of another player. Like maybe you could rez another player via sacrificing your points/fame or something else.

I find the Magincia thing a little odd - IIRC in the game fiction magincia had been too proud and that was why it was destroyed. New Magincia should have been wholly virtuous instead its a city based on greed - we sell our items there for money which we covet. How does that work??

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

earlier on in this thread they talked about how Justice took a hit, you where getting nailed a jewel for each scroll you got as a protector.

i did a champ the other night on ATL and i didnt have this happen to me.

did a fix go through allready for this?
or is this one of those hit or miss bugs?

Interesting.

If this shouldn't happen but we think it does, it's one of those things that they should probably say: "Hey, this shouldn't be happening; can we confirm this?"

As a hit or miss thing it's really not that bad (perhaps).

-Galen's player

 

[Kayne]

I did get a new message on logging in today to the effect of "you have lost a daily amount of all virtues you had"

I'm used to the "you have lost some [virtue]" but this one is new on me

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

The timer isn't awful because it allows a group of people access to the same spawn at the same time given the 5 minute wait. Without a timer, and especially without a cap, one person could monopolize the NPCs.

Someone could, or Mythic could A) increase prisoner spawn B) increase the number of places they spawn. Once someone maxed out their Compassion, they probably wouldn't continue escorting prisoners. The limit may have made sense when the server populations were higher, now notsomuch.

I f the red-named things were all in Fel, I'd be more on board. But I really don't know if I'd want to see the goal of this virtue changed.

If you're implying that the "goal" of Justice was to encourage Trammel players to go to Felucca and engage in PvP, then this Virtue failed right out of the gate - and fails even more when you consider that many guilds only use it to monopolize the powerscroll market. There is no reason that gaining it should be forever tied to Fel or PvP.

Like Compassion, this bypass should be fixed or considered in a future change. Prior to the decay/loss changes, Tier 1 Sacrifice was not very hard to acquire despite the one-per-day cap.

Why have a cap at all? Arbitrary barriers on two Virtues don't make a lotta sense in 2011, especially since rezzing yourself tree times a week is a rather minor boon.

 

[G.v.P]

Someone could, or Mythic could A) increase prisoner spawn B) increase the number of places they spawn. Once someone maxed out their Compassion, they probably wouldn't continue escorting prisoners. The limit may have made sense when the server populations were higher, now notsomuch.

True, as it is now you won't often run into someone outside of the since-defunct (fixed) Orc prison or the two spots where Bravehorn spawns. But! If you make Compassion easy mode by removing the timer AND the cap, it's possible you'd run into a situation where one person farms. I mean, if they don't give Bravehorn a timer and they remove the cap then you know people would just script it all day. Just how easy should the virtues be?

If you're implying that the "goal" of Justice was to encourage Trammel players to go to Felucca and engage in PvP, then this Virtue failed right out of the gate - and fails even more when you consider that many guilds only use it to monopolize the powerscroll market. There is no reason that gaining it should be forever tied to Fel or PvP.

The problem is Justice only works in Fel. Why should someone be able to farm in Trammel? That's like allowing a player to farm silver in Trammel. I agree it's silly how people can just kill their guildmates to gain Justice, but it's a for Fel virtue and the way to gain it should remain in Fel, in my opinion, unless they redesign the virtue to have non-Fel benefits. Otherwise, have you suggested a redesign of the function of Justice?

Why have a cap at all? Arbitrary barriers on two Virtues don't make a lotta sense in 2011, especially since rezzing yourself tree times a week is a rather minor boon.

I agree they don't need a cap. I didn't think a cap mattered too much for the old system because I was able to gain Sacrifice and Compassion fairly easily. Honor always bugged me. Under this new system, one thing has to go, IMO--either the cap, or the loss-per-use.

What do you think about my Honor idea, though? ;P wonder if they'll ever finish Arenas without Cal.

 

[Nyses]

You are correct, it only drops a small amount each scroll. But it drops enough to put you back into follower of Justice before you get ALL 12 of the power scrolls.

As its been said earlier, you stand 0 chance of getting ALL the scrolls at a Harry with 1 person protecting.

Here is hoping they got a new bunch of Idiots to write Star wars The Old republic and not the bunch we have making the dessions on UO

Actually, when I said I got 9 scrolls, that was just on my protector. So, I got all 12 of the Scrolls from Rikiki and 6 Pinks in total, and lost less than 2 dots. I was still a Knight at the end of the spawn.

 

[Pinco]

Why does sacrifice only work on monsters - a good use for sacrifice could be sacrificing your fame/sacrifice points/something else for the good of another player. Like maybe you could rez another player via sacrificing your points/fame or something else.

Well if you use sacrifice on monsters, they see the errors in their path and they changes life kind...
Using on players should remove kills in order to follow the same logic. In fact you say: "I must consider my sins", so sacrifice all your fame should let you to redeem 1 kill to someone else in order to gain in sacrifice

 

[Poo]

Actually, when I said I got 9 scrolls, that was just on my protector. So, I got all 12 of the Scrolls from Rikiki and 6 Pinks in total, and lost less than 2 dots. I was still a Knight at the end of the spawn.

how can you loose 2 dots and still be a knight?

you are only a knight when you have 100% of the dots, no?

i got all 6 scrolls on my protector and 2 pinkies and didnt loose any dots.
the other 3 guys each got 2 scrolls, so we got all 12 in total.

someone should pull a harry and test THAT out, hahahha, what does a harry pay, like 12/12 so that would hit ya for a level an a half possibly!

 

[Nyses]

how can you loose 2 dots and still be a knight?

you are only a knight when you have 100% of the dots, no?

i got all 6 scrolls on my protector and 2 pinkies and didnt loose any dots.
the other 3 guys each got 2 scrolls, so we got all 12 in total.

someone should pull a harry and test THAT out, hahahha, what does a harry pay, like 12/12 so that would hit ya for a level an a half possibly!

Once you reach Knight of Justice, you can "pad" your Justice with 1 or 2 more kills. They will not show up, but you can get a dot or two above Knight.

The Harry drops 16 scrolls and you can get 16 for Protection, 32 total.