Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly items

[Theo_GL]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Where are all the 'UO Should be the wild wild west' people in this thread?

Can you imagine UO with no house security, no insurance and such?

There was a time when you'd lose your house key and lose your house with everything in it.

I'm not a fan of theives and I'm one of the most honest players in the game - but I do find it ironic that people are so quick to rail against this behavior but in other threads talk about how great UO would be with no rules.

Yeah, ok.

 

[Siteswap]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

no such thing as a legit scam, sorry

I disagree. A game that allows murder and thievery should also allow scaming so long as it doesnt exploit game mechanics.

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

The GM's would act upon ANYONE who attempted to perform a transaction and sold an item that was not as advertised. I know this, because I was paged by a GM in 03' for trying to sell a "Bloodstained" runebook for 1mill.

You guys must also understand that these rares are worth what people are willing to pay for them. The Mona Lisa, and those $20 Double-Eagles (Worth millions of dollars) are known to be worth more money than anyone here could buy. Yet they ARE worth that much money because people are willing to spend that much. Why else are appraisals even worth a damn?

Get it through your heads guys, this scam ousted someone out of 1.2 BILLION GOLD.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

1. The value of this, and any other item not sold from npcs, is set by players, they're pure fiction decided upon by those who want them badly enough to pay the exhorbitant price asked. As far as Mythic/EA are concerned, they're worth exactly nothing - they're just pixels.

2. No matter what safeguards could be put in place they can not guard people against their own human errors. There are numerous ways the identity of the perpetrator of this act could have been verified. None were exercised through lack of suspicion and caution. A mistake many of us could, or have, made.

There is nothing EA could, or should, do in cases like this. Players must take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[NuSair]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

actually people got suspended for pretending to repair someones vanquishing weapon and running away with it, which is basically the same principle here, you put your trust in someone and are taken advantage of for doing so, I loved when GMs would give the item back to the original owner and suspend the scammer, was the best feeling ever, seriously if Mesanna felt like helping people once in a while and got involved in things like this, people would like her a lot more

I don't remember that--- and I spent a good part of my first 3 years at the Brit forge on Atlantic making/repairing armor/weapons (been playing since beta).

She CANNOT get involved. Mesanna has nothing to do with the GMs. The only thing she can do here is create another suit and give it to whoever. If I remember hearing correctly, even at events she has to call in a GM to handle certain situations.

Actually, it's not the same principle.

I rather hate being blunt about it- YOU made a mistake. YOU didn't follow your own advice. It wouldn't have taken a minute (if that) to verify who it was. You are just lucky there are people who are willing to cover for your mistake.

The belly aching is really getting tiresome.

And for the record, I was one of those people offering- but you kept closing out my chat window in vent. *shrug*

 

[Demonous]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I don't remember that--- and I spent a good part of my first 3 years at the Brit forge on Atlantic making/repairing armor/weapons (been playing since beta).

She CANNOT get involved. Mesanna has nothing to do with the GMs. The only thing she can do here is create another suit and give it to whoever. If I remember hearing correctly, even at events she has to call in a GM to handle certain situations.

Actually, it's not the same principle.

I rather hate being blunt about it- YOU made a mistake. YOU didn't follow your own advice. It wouldn't have taken a minute (if that) to verify who it was. You are just lucky there are people who are willing to cover for your mistake.

The belly aching is really getting tiresome.

And for the record, I was one of those people offering- but you kept closing out my chat window in vent. *shrug*

well it did happen like that years ago, i have friends and know a bunch of people that got suspended for that even though it was the guys fault for trusting them, and no im not LUCKY there are people willing to cover for my mistake, I am grateful, theres a big difference, you see Sundina and myself could have afforded the gold alone, we just appreciate the fact that people decided to donate since this is the 4th time we did the silent auction, free of charge and spend countless hours upon hours doing them never asking for a dime, so yes I do appreciate the rares community coming together to help us out although it was my mistake and i did contradict everything i told people not to do, i just didn't expect someone to go to the length that this guy did by impersonating someone.... i mean almost no other MMO can you name your character the same name as someone else, so thats another thing in itself, and i would not praise the guy for what he did, i find it sad that hes that desperate for attention and has to plan all this out

I have no idea who you are but if you were one of the people in Queen Arya's vent server then i definitely didn't talk to you or have a chat window pop up, do yourself a favor and keep your gold

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

This is how rares collection has always been. Some people like to collect unique things. Basically from the tone and content of this post it seems like you used to, no longer do, and instead of saying "this playstyle is no longer for me," you say "this playstyle should no longer be for anyone."



I did. You make no sense, and this is why.

What makes an item unique is that it is unique. Not that its uniqueness is unique.

A one-of-a-kind renamed rock is still rare simply because it is one-of-a-kind. The fact that a one-of-a-kind renamed crystal ball by definition doesn't make the one-of-a-kind rock less one-of-a-kind.

In all honesty this post sounds like jealousy that a rares museum simply houses a lower percentage of total rare items than it once did.



To me it wouldn't be worth 10m. I don't collect rares; I get them from events and sell them to buy other things.



The gold value is, I think, a market price for the item. The fact that you wouldn't pay a tenth of that and I wouldn't pay a tenth of what you might pay is of little consequence in terms of judging the gold value of the theft. I wouldn't pay $10 for one of those rare Russian Easter Egg thingies IRL. It doesn't make it petty theft if I steal it.



I agree, but for different reasons: Most of what I've read so far has less to do with the theft itself and more to do with everyone's pet concern of the moments. We've had "too much gold," "trading system reform," "unique names." Even the very topic of the post would, had it been an actual system, not prevented this theft.



So.....The EM events should stop because they make rare items that are not the same as your rare items, but enable people other than you to have, trade, and display items that are rare in objective terms, because they are of limited quantity?

Firstly a lot more goes on in EM events than item-getting. And secondly, the item-getting, as stated above, doesn't actually make your stuff less rare. Using your logic the existence of those Russian Easter Egg thingies should also have an impact on the value of rare violins. (I hate RL examples but that's all I could manage at the moment; apologies.)



I wouldn't pay 10m for that suit.

It doesn't mean it isn't worth 1.2b. It means it isn't worth anywhere near that for me.

-Galen's player

The EM comment was sarcasm. I agree with you. What makes a collectable a museum piece is to the collector.

However, with the 100s of new items coming into the game. Nothing is purely rare. It is a matter of perspective. And we both agree, and even now that I saw a picture, it aint worth 1.2 billion.

In fact as far as I am concerned some one said hey can I see the suit. The guy gave it to him.

It sucks. Lesson learned, move along.

And I never said it should be a play style for anyone. I dont think. The tag rare is loosely associated with things now a days. Thats all.

 

[Zosimus]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

They just could do away with checks completely and just do the banking system they have in WaR or DaoC. Would eliminate alot of this hassle. Like any more change is going to hurt the game.


Since the suit is stolen and more famous, or could we go with infamous over the issue it has caused, the value of that suit should be worth triple (sarcasm) now

 

[Damion LS]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Can you imagine UO with ... no insurance and such?

Yes.

There was a time when you'd lose your house key and lose your house with everything in it.

Holding the house key never made you the owner of the house. It let you unlock the door. Once inside you could empty any box that wasn't secured.

I'm not a fan of theives and I'm one of the most honest players in the game ...

I really hope you aren't applying real life morality to the stealing skill in PVP.

... I do find it ironic that people are so quick to rail against this behavior but in other threads talk about how great UO would be with no rules.

I've been scammed before in this game. I lost eight million back in 2001, which was all of my money, and it was incredibly discouraging. But, I wouldn't want the person to be banned for it. It's a social aspect of the game and I personally believe that provided that no game mechanics are exploited game staff shouldn't get involved in the situation.

This is a situation that the community should be policing itself, and it's not like you don't have the name of the person responsible. He made sure this wasn't some anonymous heist. If you feel he's done something wrong you should actively encourage other members of the community to cease dealings with him or find another way to punish him in-game without behavior that would be considered harassment.

 

[NuSair]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

i just didn't expect someone to go to the length that this guy did by impersonating someone.... i mean almost no other MMO can you name your character the same name as someone else, so thats another thing in itself, and i would not praise the guy for what he did, i find it sad that hes that desperate for attention and has to plan all this out

I have no idea who you are but if you were one of the people in Queen Arya's vent server then i definitely didn't talk to you or have a chat window pop up, do yourself a favor and keep your gold

Then that is something we agree on- I never did praise him and think that he's a very sad being and pity him.

Although, I am not sure why you say that you didn't think so one would go that far when you spell that out in your instructions on how to hand you the items.

Actually, you have talked with me in vent and I did, 4 separate times try to open a chat window through vent, which was closed before I could even type in one sentence.

And please, stop trying to martyr yourself- there are many people, myself included, who do things for countless hours for little or no compensation other than the occasional thanks we get from a few. And have to deal with more pancakes, griping and whining that sometimes leaves us to think is it worth it. Only to do it again. For the love of the game and the community.... and not necessarily in that order.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

The EM comment was sarcasm.

Oh.

Sorry.

However, with the 100s of new items coming into the game. Nothing is purely rare.

Mostly I think it was a matter of my seeing rarity as a function of the rarity of that particular item.

Theoretically, then, an infinite number of items can be rare so long as there is a finite and low number of each one.

Which ones will be considered valuable to collect may therefore be a subjective matter, and a matter for perspective. At most it broadens the scope of who can collect rares, simply because there are more rares to collect. I don't see, however, how it's possible to sustain an argument that it undermines the value of rares because I'm thinking of rares in terms of the rarity of that particular item.

It is a matter of perspective. And we both agree, and even now that I saw a picture, it aint worth 1.2 billion.

I will actually purposefully sell under the probable value of an EM item I get, for one simple reason: I'm about the quick sale. I'm not a collector; I want the liquid. Galen the character is about being able to take care of those to whom he is close. Gold helps you do that; rares don't, not directly.

So if I found something that you told me was definitely worth 1.2 billion I would probably sell it for 500m so I could get it off my hands quickly!

In fact as far as I am concerned some one said hey can I see the suit. The guy gave it to him.

It sucks. Lesson learned, move along.

I think that was the consensus on the rares forum thread as well. Basically that this was a spilled glass of very expensive milk and there was little sense in hand-wringing, better to move on and learn.

At least that's what I recall reading there.

-Galen's player

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

actually people got suspended for pretending to repair someones vanquishing weapon and running away with it, which is basically the same principle here, you put your trust in someone and are taken advantage of for doing so, I loved when GMs would give the item back to the original owner and suspend the scammer, was the best feeling ever, seriously if Mesanna felt like helping people once in a while and got involved in things like this, people would like her a lot more

Umm... has it occured to you that I was philosophying about that subject in the thread, and that intelligible minds would at least passively follow the subject I brought under the light ?

Maybe instead of going through all this dualistic polarized dimentions roleplay I should just say : Anyone who wants to profit from a certain political decision please at least admit it so we know who wears the blue or red shirts. TYVM.

This is exactly the example I could not come up with myself ; why serve it to me on a silver platter ? Why ?!!

"was the best feeling ever"

wow... I'm speechless about it ! And you even manage to post an anti-Messana innuendo at the same time !?

*censored*

*theres alot I auto-censor*

*thank you for your patience*

WE LOVE MESSANA !

I'm not judging a woman until I hear her say she's done all she intended to do (while I might jest in critic, its what I'm known to do), all woman are beautiful.

We however, are another story.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

They just could do away with checks completely and just do the banking system they have in WaR or DaoC. Would eliminate alot of this hassle. Like any more change is going to hurt the game.


Since the suit is stolen and more famous, or could we go with infamous over the issue it has caused, the value of that suit should be worth triple (sarcasm) now

What a tought !

[Tyler points a gun into the Narrator's mouth]
Narrator: [voiceover] People are always asking me if I know Tyler Durden.
Tyler Durden: Three minutes. This is it - ground zero. Would you like to say a few words to mark the occasion?
Narrator: ...i... ann... iinn... ff... nnyin...
Narrator: [voiceover] With a gun barrel between your teeth, you speak only in vowels.
[Tyler removes the gun from the Narrator's mouth]
Narrator: I can't think of anything.
Narrator: [voiceover] For a second I totally forgot about Tyler's whole controlled demolition thing and I wonder how clean that gun is.

Thats not sarcasm Zosimus, that is irony and I find your eagerness to expose it as sarcasm a bit immature although I have to concur with the fact.

*slaps himself*

St-George's day ?

Stop talking in parables !

Tyler Durden: Hey, you created me. I didn't create some loser alter-ego to make myself feel better. Take some responsibility!

Tyler Durden: Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Checkbook: Works like a bod-book and holds up to 100 1million dollar checks. Checks can be removed one at a time and checkbooks can be traded as a part of a transaction.

Problem solved?

Brilliant!

 

[Salivern_Diago]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Ok I've watched this thread and read most of the comments. I know how values work etc... but and I ask this in earnst...

Is there anyone who wanted it and would pay 1.2billion? You cant say its worth 1.2 billion if no-one will buy it at that. If anything the suit is only worth what the highest bidder was at the time of the theft!

The fact that people talk like the suit is worth 1.2 billion makes me feel ill tbh, like when I see castles for sale for 1.2billion on Atlantic... I mean, really?

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

isn't it intriguing too that castles could never really become castles, since they cannot have customisation ?

This is like the ultimate goal of any guild leader and community builder, yet they prefer to give us Pirates... I'd almost be willing to bet most of you forgot you ever wanted it.

arrrrrr indeed Arrrrr onic !

 

[lucitus]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Like in the pc enviroment also the UO enviroment changed, in PC 64 bit is neccessary to adress more memory, also in UO we need to think like that, when checks were created 1 million was much much gold, today we need larger checks to make also normal trades <100 million saver easier to see one 25,500,500 gp check is easier to count than, you know the other way.

So iam voting yes for 1 billion checks.

 

[Salivern_Diago]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I think I would prefer a way to get rid of 95% of the gold in the system and 'reboot' it as it were. When inflation get too out of hand, devalue the current and create a new currency, that would solve everyones problem then.

As for creating bigger checks, definately not and definately a never!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I think I would prefer a way to get rid of 95% of the gold in the system and 'reboot' it as it were. When inflation get too out of hand, devalue the current and create a new currency, that would solve everyones problem then.

As stated, what this would do is hurt UO's elongated middle class.

The super rich, I guarantee you, would find a way to remain so, and the monopoly they maintain on the higher-end items, both deco and useful, would remain.

Inflation isn't a big deal if money is easy to come by, and a common complaint you see alongside inflation is that money is too easy to come by in this game. Another common, and in my judgement odd, complaint, is that noobs have it too easy, that it's too easy to bridge the noob/vet gap. (Gold is too easy to come by; Imbuing means better equipment is more-widely available; etc.) One reason this is odd in my judgement is that you also see complaints that, thanks to inflation, noobs have it too hard, that it's too difficult to bridge the noob/vet gap.

Etc.

-Galen's player

 

[Omnius]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

As stated, what this would do is hurt UO's elongated middle class.

The super rich, I guarantee you, would find a way to remain so, and the monopoly they maintain on the higher-end items, both deco and useful, would remain.

Inflation isn't a big deal if money is easy to come by, and a common complaint you see alongside inflation is that money is too easy to come by in this game. Another common, and in my judgement odd, complaint, is that noobs have it too easy, that it's too easy to bridge the noob/vet gap. (Gold is too easy to come by; Imbuing means better equipment is more-widely available; etc.) One reason this is odd in my judgement is that you also see complaints that, thanks to inflation, noobs have it too hard, that it's too difficult to bridge the noob/vet gap.

Etc.

-Galen's player

A champ spawner char in fel earns millions of gold a day + scrolls + replicas

 

[Europa Trader]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Ok I've watched this thread and read most of the comments. I know how values work etc... but and I ask this in earnst...

Is there anyone who wanted it and would pay 1.2billion? You cant say its worth 1.2 billion if no-one will buy it at that. If anything the suit is only worth what the highest bidder was at the time of the theft!

The fact that people talk like the suit is worth 1.2 billion makes me feel ill tbh, like when I see castles for sale for 1.2billion on Atlantic... I mean, really?

Well items like these are priced from players, for your information the 2nd helm from the set wich I also had in auction did not sell for 300m but after Auction had ended someone offered 250m and it was sold for that.

Besides if you put "Transfer Token" for lets say 20m and someone offered 2m, then it got lost I'm pretty sure we can agree on the value of the token is not 2m right?
Prices also gets valued by other collectors I don't know if Demon asked other players but we are still talking about a 1 of 2 set, and a complete set of that.

Gold is easy to get, what is the only thing taking gold out of the game atm? NPCs, Vendor Fees and Insurances.

NPCs - Im sure it goes both ways since people also sell to NPCs not much gold goes out.

Vendor Fees - People tend to avoid paying them, and even the ones who pay still doesnt take out a lot considering how much gold people can get each day.

Insurance - Yes now with Item Bless Deeds might be the end, but even insurance doesnt take out a lot considering how much gold people gain from hunting.

So how fast can you make 1b? as a Trader you might be able to make it in 1-2 weeks. as a hunter maybe 1-2 months depending on luck.
Gold aint hard to get in the game, some shards just not as wealthy as others.

 

[Shqiptar]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

So how fast can you make 1b? as a Trader you might be able to make it in 1-2 weeks. as a hunter maybe 1-2 months depending on luck.
Gold aint hard to get in the game, some shards just not as wealthy as others.

Yea maybe if you exclude casual players.

 

[Theo_GL]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Now on another note. Yesterday I was dropping runes and some guy would pick them up and trash them. I paged on him for harassment and he disappeared.

How is that harassment? Anything on the ground is fair game - if I choose to clean up the floor- its not harassment.

If a GM ever banned anyone for that they shoudl be fired. Items on ground are public property.


In terms of your other silly arguement about 'no 100 mil checks because it can be duped'.... How about all gold is stored in an account and you simply 'type in' the amount to transfer. No gold piles, no gold checks etc. Haven't we moved beyond gold checks? Really. Handle it like every other MMORPG out there - money goes into account and it is a NUMBER. You want to trade - you trade from your NUMBER not handing over stacks of checks or gold coins. Heck in some games you never see the coins. You see '5 gold coins' and when you pick up the item it adds to your bank balance.

THIS would kill the need for 'brokers' and let people pay/transfer whatever amount they wish from char to char with NO CHANCE TO DUPE.

How about that Raven? Sounds like a perfect system for your paranoid world.

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

As stated, what this would do is hurt UO's elongated middle class.

The super rich, I guarantee you, would find a way to remain so, and the monopoly they maintain on the higher-end items, both deco and useful, would remain.

-Galen's player

You are aware that rare collectors often are the ones that attend every EM event and the odds of them getting a unique item are just as good as any other person's chance, right?

This isn't lopsided like PvP. You guys can whine about PvP all day long because there actually are people out there hacking.

As far as rare collectors are concerned, they/we are bound by the same game mechanics as everyone else. Their chances of "winning" are just as good as anyone elses. They might be more hardcore and attend every EM event on every shard, but that isn't their fault that they are willing and you are lazy.

Sure some of them may be dupers. Most that I know, are not. Most that I know do attend most EM events. It's their play style. It's their preference to not be lazy, attend EM events, obtain X item, and make money. Their ways of making money are more efficient with time and effort versus doing a champ spawn, or killing countless Greater Drags.

Effort > Laziness.

 

[Vyal]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Nothing in the game is worth that much gold. Only a real idiot would pay that much or for that matter just let someone with the same name walk up and have it handed to them.
Don't cry about it, your stuff is gone. Stop buying gold from those websites and play the game right.

Neutron Bomb, I make about 10 mill a day as a thief and never work any spawns versus the greedy people who want to take items some would actually want to have and horde them and sell them for prices like 1.2 billion.

& tbh its always the same people getting rewards from events on my shard the same people sit in tram at banks, could never in a million years do anything that takes skill in the game aside from show up to a event and have a 50 million gold item handed to them.

Mesanna handing out crazy pink roses on Legends was a perfect example of GM's making people rich on items who have no skill at all in UO.

 

[Kayne]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

In terms of your other silly arguement about 'no 100 mil checks because it can be duped'.... How about all gold is stored in an account and you simply 'type in' the amount to transfer. No gold piles, no gold checks etc. Haven't we moved beyond gold checks? Really. Handle it like every other MMORPG out there - money goes into account and it is a NUMBER. You want to trade - you trade from your NUMBER not handing over stacks of checks or gold coins. Heck in some games you never see the coins. You see '5 gold coins' and when you pick up the item it adds to your bank balance.

I do hope you are not serious Theo. UO has always had something different from the multitude of other MMO's out there. It has freedom and individuality and yet you want to take that away and use a system in constant use in ALL other games.

 

[Deisree888]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Here's another thought. If you could draw up a deed on your home from the sign like they did with the Magencia plots so you could put the deed on a vendor and sell it for up to 999 Million on a vendor which can hold more gold than your bank box. And it would make home selling alot easier. If this is not possible larger check would work too.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

In terms of your other silly arguement about 'no 100 mil checks because it can be duped'.... How about all gold is stored in an account and you simply 'type in' the amount to transfer. No gold piles, no gold checks etc. Haven't we moved beyond gold checks? Really. Handle it like every other MMORPG out there - money goes into account and it is a NUMBER. You want to trade - you trade from your NUMBER not handing over stacks of checks or gold coins. Heck in some games you never see the coins. You see '5 gold coins' and when you pick up the item it adds to your bank balance.

THIS would kill the need for 'brokers' and let people pay/transfer whatever amount they wish from char to char with NO CHANCE TO DUPE.

How about that Raven? Sounds like a perfect system for your paranoid world.

I have to agree, but I also have to add a nuance to the comment... in the old days of UO there was a reason for all items including gold to be physical, because it took time to loot.

So say you were in a dungeon and a murderer killed you and you were wise enough not to stack your gold... he might only get half of it before you called your guildmates for help.

This was how I see it for many things... you had to click, you had to move your things, place your backpack, place trapped pouches over empty pouches over the real reagent pouch, to fool thieves.

It was great... but now that the whole game is changed, it indeed dosen't make any sense to keep those dynamics in play...

 

[Theo_GL]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I do hope you are not serious Theo. UO has always had something different from the multitude of other MMO's out there. It has freedom and individuality and yet you want to take that away and use a system in constant use in ALL other games.

Ha ha ha - even funnier. How is managing hundreds of checks 'freedom and individuality'? Its more like being a slave to an archaic system.

Every other game has evolved into a BETTER system yet we are stuck to deal with a lame system where we have to tote gold around.

Is this fun?

Is this what UO's 'freedom and individuality' is about? Gold piles and gold checks?

No wonder this game is dying a hard death.

'Come one, come all! Come play the game where you too can spend half your day trying to manage stacks of 60k items. You can waste plenty of your time counting out stacks of gold checks to buy a single piece of armor. You can get rent vendors to store your gold so you don't need to put hundreds of checks in the bank. You can enjoy trying to buy a house and having to find a broker that you trust to manage the transaction. Imagine the glory! Think of the excitement! Come try UO! The game for the insane, the carpel tunnel wannabees and the truely deranged!'

Yeah, thats it. Its all about freedom.

Ford Pinto's had the freedom and individuality to explode on impact. Good thing the rest of the cars after them took that 'freedom and individuality' away.

 

[Kayne]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

OK so lets just make it a clone of all other MMO's that people get bored of and leave. Lets make it have no individuality and no freedom. Make it all class based with no skill points and no stats. Lets just level up and have so called secondary skills that are actually boring and pretty useless.

At least currently people leave because they've had enough of EA and broken promises and buggy systems, terribly implemented patches and publishes that break and nerf everything.

 

[Raptor85]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

No wonder this game is dying a hard death.

UO is dying a hard death because instead of it being UO, it's own unique game with it's own unique rules, a SMALL group of very vocal players and the majority of the dev teams have devoted the past 9 years to converting it from UO to a ****ty diablo2/2d-WOW clone

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

You are aware that rare collectors often are the ones that attend every EM event and the odds of them getting a unique item are just as good as any other person's chance, right?

This isn't lopsided like PvP. You guys can whine about PvP all day long because there actually are people out there hacking.

As far as rare collectors are concerned, they/we are bound by the same game mechanics as everyone else. Their chances of "winning" are just as good as anyone elses. They might be more hardcore and attend every EM event on every shard, but that isn't their fault that they are willing and you are lazy.

Sure some of them may be dupers. Most that I know, are not. Most that I know do attend most EM events. It's their play style. It's their preference to not be lazy, attend EM events, obtain X item, and make money. Their ways of making money are more efficient with time and effort versus doing a champ spawn, or killing countless Greater Drags.

Effort > Laziness.

Looks like you replied to my post, but that must be an error or mere coincidence, because I can find nothing whatsoever in my post that in any way says or implies that I'm accusing anyone of hacking or cheating in any way whatsoever.

Indeed if you're saying that's what I'm saying? It's really something close to malicious slander.

I did not say anything like that, would not say anything like that, like most rares collectors I've met, and have made good money from selling to them.

-Galen's player

 

[Kayne]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

it's own unique game with it's own unique rules,

Hold on, isn't UO being a unique game exactly what makes it UO? UO isn't like other MMO's

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Looks like you replied to my post, but that must be an error or mere coincidence, because I can find nothing whatsoever in my post that in any way says or implies that I'm accusing anyone of hacking or cheating in any way whatsoever.

Indeed if you're saying that's what I'm saying? It's really something close to malicious slander.

I did not say anything like that, would not say anything like that, like most rares collectors I've met, and have made good money from selling to them.

-Galen's player

Well it seems that people here consider Rare Collectors to be synonymous with the "Super Rich", so I merely replaced super rich with rare collectors in my post (This is a thread pertaining to rare collecting in general, is it not?).

I also added PvP in there because it is a credible pancake for most, and I believe the Super Rich or Rare Collectors to have gained leverage in the market by credible means.

Either way, malicious slander? I reply to posts as is. I don't go reading your Bio or previous posts to form a post. Don't take it personally.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Well it seems that people here consider Rare Collectors to be synonymous with the "Super Rich", so I merely replaced super rich with rare collectors in my post (This is a thread pertaining to rare collecting in general, is it not?).

I also added PvP in there because it is a credible pancake for most, and I believe the Super Rich or Rare Collectors to have gained leverage in the market by credible means.

Either way, malicious slander? I reply to posts as is. I don't go reading your Bio or previous posts to form a post. Don't take it personally.

Malicious slander because you did not reply to anything I actually said.

You don't need to go through my posting history to NOT respond to things I didn't say as though I actually said them. What I did was argue against taking gold out of the game on a mass level just to take it out. Where you got scripting and cheating and **** out of that I cannot even begin to guess.

This is a frequent tactic on Stratics though. Make up a strawman and respond to it. Some of the most popular folks here use it, and I guess it works out for them.

To anyone I am friends with or sell to who might happen to be reading this: Know that Neutron Bomb is, I have to assume willfully, misrepresenting what I said and doing it rather badly.

-Ghalen's player

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

hehehe... thats kinda funny...

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Malicious slander because you did not reply to anything I actually said.

You don't need to go through my posting history to NOT respond to things I didn't say as though I actually said them. What I did was argue against taking gold out of the game on a mass level just to take it out. Where you got scripting and cheating and **** out of that I cannot even begin to guess.

This is a frequent tactic on Stratics though. Make up a strawman and respond to it. Some of the most popular folks here use it, and I guess it works out for them.

To anyone I am friends with or sell to who might happen to be reading this: Know that Neutron Bomb is, I have to assume willfully, misrepresenting what I said and doing it rather badly.

-Ghalen's player

*shakes head* You are right, I did just snip out of your post and reply to it without actually reading the entirety of the post, nor did I appreciate the scale of this thread and the various conversations going on at once. I did wrongfully assume you were talking about one thing, yet talking about another.

Let it be known to all of Galen's friends and consumers, I failed to realize the scale of what I was saying, and doing. Fear not, for in the future of doing business with this gentleman, that he is not considered foe, and appreciates the means in which you obtain your gold once it is time to pay him.

Anyway, sorry for the 'malicious slander', I'd hate to spoil your fun ingame.

 

[Hera - Siege]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

...attend every EM event on every shard, but that isn't their fault that they are willing and you are lazy.

Effort > Laziness.

Epic fail. I don't recall being sent a request from the EM when a convenient time for *ME* might be.

I have a family, maybe I planned a family get-away 2 months in advance and now 2 weeks before the event there's notice of an EM Event? Now of course I would never cancel a Real Life event for Ultima [at least not after the first 4 years or so... ], so I'm lazy or applying no effort because my job, family, other free-time activities restrict me from attending an EM Event?

I also question your sample size, you claimed 'most' that you know are not dupers. How many do you know? Are you aware of how many there are in total across all shards? Your experience does not equate to fact.

 

[Hera - Siege]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Using a disguise kit to pull something like this off is more grey area, but creating a character to impersonate another character is clearly something that is not consistent with "the game word", or realistic, or whatever you want to call it. It is really no different than a RL scam, which is clearly NOT a game.

Really, creating a character to impersonate another character is not 'realistic?' Never head of Identity theft, have we?

The theft in question was achieved using no game exploits. If you are going to say creating another character's name was an exploit, then I certainly hope you're willing to rename all the "Bill Clinton", "Sammy Hagar", etc characters, plus take the earliest character name with duplicate names and rename all other characters.

The only exploit that happened was this thief exploited another person's lack of planning, not punishable by banning/etc. This is between the two players.

I've always been a promoter of 'What happens to the pixel char does affect the RL person.' And I still stand by that, but my arguments I choose to apply to griefing. This, while some will say is griefing, in my opinion, is not. This isn't a case of multiple thefts/etc or multiple rez kills or anything along those lines.

The unfortunate thing of the whole deal is despite it all, all the clamoring and pistol shooting only further cements the 'epicness' of the entire theft and gives the thief more notoriety, which let's face it, is the reason the theft was attempted.

Does it suck? Absolutely. Is it banishable? No. I've lost plenty of things in my time of closing/giving away accounts that I wish I had back, but I also realize that this is supposed to be an enjoyable game, when I clutch to something that is essentially made of 0s and 1s so dearly that it affects me dramatically in real life, that's when I'll be saying good bye to online gaming.

Thief made a great score, victim learned a very hard lesson.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

*shakes head* You are right, I did just snip out of your post and reply to it without actually reading the entirety of the post, nor did I appreciate the scale of this thread and the various conversations going on at once. I did wrongfully assume you were talking about one thing, yet talking about another.

Let it be known to all of Galen's friends and consumers, I failed to realize the scale of what I was saying, and doing. Fear not, for in the future of doing business with this gentleman, that he is not considered foe, and appreciates the means in which you obtain your gold once it is time to pay him.

Anyway, sorry for the 'malicious slander', I'd hate to spoil your fun ingame.

Depends on how you did it.

I long ago stopped complaining about PvP, for the most part.

Save for some in-confidence sniping to close friends, I guess.

At any rate, thank you.

I know it probably seems ridiculous to many, but I have a sore spot for people misrepresenting me.

Couple that with my admitted paranoia and it can be something of a powder keg giving off sparks.

At least, relative to how I am normally.

Which is, let's face it, a tad flat.

Flatness and paranoia is an odd combination, I know.

-Galen's player

 

[Zosimus]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

...attend every EM event on every shard, but that isn't their fault that they are willing and you are lazy.

Effort > Laziness.

Epic fail. I don't recall being sent a request from the EM when a convenient time for *ME* might be.

I have a family, maybe I planned a family get-away 2 months in advance and now 2 weeks before the event there's notice of an EM Event? Now of course I would never cancel a Real Life event for Ultima [at least not after the first 4 years or so... ], so I'm lazy or applying no effort because my job, family, other free-time activities restrict me from attending an EM Event?

I also question your sample size, you claimed 'most' that you know are not dupers. How many do you know? Are you aware of how many there are in total across all shards? Your experience does not equate to fact.

I agree with you Hera. Real life comes first. UO is a game. If pixels are worth such a price and so coveted by the player base to put aside real life for pixels I feel sorry for them. If EM events would not have any items these issues would not be an issue.

To call people lazy when real life is more important in any situation than a game is stupid.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Really, creating a character to impersonate another character is not 'realistic?' Never head of Identity theft, have we?

The theft in question was achieved using no game exploits. If you are going to say creating another character's name was an exploit, then I certainly hope you're willing to rename all the "Bill Clinton", "Sammy Hagar", etc characters, plus take the earliest character name with duplicate names and rename all other characters.

The only exploit that happened was this thief exploited another person's lack of planning, not punishable by banning/etc. This is between the two players.

I've always been a promoter of 'What happens to the pixel char does affect the RL person.' And I still stand by that, but my arguments I choose to apply to griefing. This, while some will say is griefing, in my opinion, is not. This isn't a case of multiple thefts/etc or multiple rez kills or anything along those lines.

The unfortunate thing of the whole deal is despite it all, all the clamoring and pistol shooting only further cements the 'epicness' of the entire theft and gives the thief more notoriety, which let's face it, is the reason the theft was attempted.

Does it suck? Absolutely. Is it banishable? No. I've lost plenty of things in my time of closing/giving away accounts that I wish I had back, but I also realize that this is supposed to be an enjoyable game, when I clutch to something that is essentially made of 0s and 1s so dearly that it affects me dramatically in real life, that's when I'll be saying good bye to online gaming.

Thief made a great score, victim learned a very hard lesson.

*sighs and shakes my head*

-Galen's player

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

(Mostly directed to Hera, and the rest is just in general)

If you want the items, then you must attend. Simple as that. I spend maybe an hour a week in UO because I too have business/family matters that I must attend to, which means I don't get EM items either. Poo.

Some of these guys are making a shiny income attending these events. Gold sells, plain and simple. Compare the profit per hour vs. what you do for a living. Some of them do that, and some make a true profit out of a hobby. I applaud them for it.

If the ones I know are dupers, that would be news to me. I really don't care if it's fact or not. Honestly, I really don't give two sh1ts about what someone else does in this game. If they made 140k last year selling duped items and gold, my hats off to them for figuring out a way to make that much money legally. If I had the option to dupe gold in this game 5-6 years ago, I would have taken advantage of it. So would EVERYONE here. My family is worth the injustice of a friggin videogame, if yours isn't, then I feel sorry for them.

I understand dupers ruined the economy, and led to its eventual death. It really sucks, but we're all constantly arguing over spilled milk. Dupers exist, they always will (under our current circumstances). My friends are 'probably' not dupers, but if they are...oh nooooes. Holy crap, they are providing for their family outside of their occupations!

My real pancake is why hasn't the game transitioned over to 3D yet? Why are we still screwing with bugs when we've had 14 years to iron them out? Why are there STILL loopholes that allow people to exploit game mechanics?

Don't hate the dupers, hate the devs for allowing the loopholes to remain open. They allow people to make XXX a year selling gold. They allowed the economy to tank.

I agree with you Hera. Real life comes first. UO is a game. If pixels are worth such a price and so coveted by the player base to put aside real life for pixels I feel sorry for them. If EM events would not have any items these issues would not be an issue.

To call people lazy when real life is more important in any situation than a game is stupid.

Then you also agree that Rare Collectors earn their items and their gold fair and square.

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Depends on how you did it.

I long ago stopped complaining about PvP, for the most part.

Save for some in-confidence sniping to close friends, I guess.

At any rate, thank you.

I know it probably seems ridiculous to many, but I have a sore spot for people misrepresenting me.

Couple that with my admitted paranoia and it can be something of a powder keg giving off sparks.

At least, relative to how I am normally.

Which is, let's face it, a tad flat.

Flatness and paranoia is an odd combination, I know.

-Galen's player

I don't have anything against you. As a matter of fact I don't think I've ever talked to you either, lol. Honestly though, it was a mistake I made, and I am apologetic. Thank you for taking the time to point out where I have wronged.

EDIT: And I would also note that I have had a tendency to feel defensive as of late towards the Uhall community as a whole. There has been a lot of bashing of the Rares Community lately, and I think I may be jumping the gun a little much.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I reserve the right to hate dupers.

But the post wasn't about them. It was saying that anyone who is super-rich now will still be super-rich after they did whatever gold wipe it is that those who suggest things what them to do. That such a measure would only hurt UO's extended middle-class.

I still do not understand, at all, how you could possibly have made the leap from "super rich" to dupers.

I really shouldn't have to explain my qualifications to not be misrepresented, but for anyone reading this who might believe the misrepresentation: I have at least one admitted billionaire and probably a few non-admitted ones in my social circle, and frequently sell to one of the noted rares guys for way less than I probably could. I doubt as any of these folks dupe. Or hack. Or script.

*shrugs*

Whatever. It's out there now; those who will believe that I said what it was suggested I said would likely have believed it whether someone actually said I'd said those things or not, let alone if I actually said them.

-Galen's player

If you want the items, then you must attend. Simple as that. I spend maybe an hour a week in UO because I too have business/family matters that I must attend to, which means I don't get EM items either. Poo.

Some of these guys are making a shiny income attending these events. Gold sells, plain and simple. Compare the profit per hour vs. what you do for a living. Some of them do that, and some make a true profit out of a hobby. I applaud them for it.

If the ones I know are dupers, that would be news to me. I really don't care if it's fact or not. Honestly, I really don't give two sh1ts about what someone else does in this game. If they made 140k last year selling duped items and gold, my hats off to them for figuring out a way to make that much money legally. If I had the option to dupe gold in this game 5-6 years ago, I would have taken advantage of it. So would EVERYONE here. My family is worth the injustice of a friggin videogame, if yours isn't, then I feel sorry for them.

I understand dupers ruined the economy, and led to its eventual death. It really sucks, but we're all constantly arguing over spilled milk. Dupers exist, they always will. My friends are 'probably' not dupers, but if they are...oh nooooes. Holy crap, they are providing for their family outside of their occupations!

My real pancake is why hasn't the game transitioned over to 3D yet? Why are we still screwing with bugs when we've had 14 years to iron them out? Why are there STILL loopholes that allow people to exploit game mechanics?

Don't hate the dupers, hate the devs for allowing the loopholes to remain open. They allow people to make XXX a year selling gold. They allowed the economy to tank.

 

[grig_since98]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Really, creating a character to impersonate another character is not 'realistic?' Never head of Identity theft, have we?

The theft in question was achieved using no game exploits. If you are going to say creating another character's name was an exploit, then I certainly hope you're willing to rename all the "Bill Clinton", "Sammy Hagar", etc characters, plus take the earliest character name with duplicate names and rename all other characters.

The only exploit that happened was this thief exploited another person's lack of planning, not punishable by banning/etc. This is between the two players.

I've always been a promoter of 'What happens to the pixel char does affect the RL person.' And I still stand by that, but my arguments I choose to apply to griefing. This, while some will say is griefing, in my opinion, is not. This isn't a case of multiple thefts/etc or multiple rez kills or anything along those lines.

The unfortunate thing of the whole deal is despite it all, all the clamoring and pistol shooting only further cements the 'epicness' of the entire theft and gives the thief more notoriety, which let's face it, is the reason the theft was attempted.

Does it suck? Absolutely. Is it banishable? No. I've lost plenty of things in my time of closing/giving away accounts that I wish I had back, but I also realize that this is supposed to be an enjoyable game, when I clutch to something that is essentially made of 0s and 1s so dearly that it affects me dramatically in real life, that's when I'll be saying good bye to online gaming.

Thief made a great score, victim learned a very hard lesson.

First off, I didn't claim this is an exploit, nor did I propose banning the player. My honest opinion on the banning question at this point in UO is that we need all the paying subscriptions we can get, and I honestly don't think that the victims will quit playing.

I was going to criticize your analogy of identity theft as a modern concept applied to a medieval fantasy background, but that isn't entirely off the mark. In pre-modern times, individuals did indeed attempt to claim the title of influential individuals. In some ways it was easier since there was no mass media to inform people of an individual's activities or even their appearance. Even in modern times, it has been suggested that the reason the Russians were so squirrely about releasing information about the fate and remains of Adolf Hitler was to have essentially "blackmail" material in the event of an individual attempting to use that identity to seize power. ( I don't buy that argument and write it off myself as simple lack of cooperation and the general paranoia of Stalin, but this isn't a history forum).

About the names of real personalities for characters in the game, then yes, I do believe that needs to be changed. Most MMOs forbid this type of naming. I have felt that the naming policy of UO has always, since the beginning, been far too lax.

Perhaps no one else will see it this way, but I would find it more acceptable, though still pretty rotten, to use a disguise kit or some such to pull off a scam rather than just creating a new character to impersonate someone. I've never been a hard nosed 100% role player, but I like the idea of entering a virtual world where someone leaves the real world behind, which includes "convenience" characters. I myself avoided using mules in the beginning, for several years.

I don't make the rules, I'm just stating an opinion.

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I reserve the right to hate dupers.

But the post wasn't about them. It was saying that anyone who is super-rich now will still be super-rich after they did whatever gold wipe it is that those who suggest things what them to do. That such a measure would only hurt UO's extended middle-class.

I still do not understand, at all, how you could possibly have made the leap from "super rich" to dupers.

I really shouldn't have to explain my qualifications to not be misrepresented, but for anyone reading this who might believe the misrepresentation: I have at least one admitted billionaire and probably a few non-admitted ones in my social circle, and frequently sell to one of the noted rares guys for way less than I probably could. I doubt as any of these folks dupe. Or hack. Or script.

*shrugs*

Whatever. It's out there now; those who will believe that I said what it was suggested I said would likely have believed it whether someone actually said I'd said those things or not, let alone if I actually said them.

-Galen's player

I'm not even replying to your post any more!!! I am replying to a post that was in reply to my mistaken post, which was a post based on a different subject matter altogether!!! AUUGGHHH. I DON'T HATE YOU GALEN!!! This thread needs to die before we misunderstand each other and draw blood.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

I'm not even replying to your post any more!!! I am replying to a post that was in reply to my mistaken post, which was a post based on a different subject matter altogether!!! AUUGGHHH. I DON'T HATE YOU GALEN!!! This thread needs to die before we misunderstand each other and draw blood.

Too late!

*draws blood*

At any rate; sorry.

It looked to me like you were replying to me, as the content was not dissimilar.

-Galen's player

 

[Zosimus]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

(Mostly directed to Hera, and the rest is just in general)

If you want the items, then you must attend. Simple as that. I spend maybe an hour a week in UO because I too have business/family matters that I must attend to, which means I don't get EM items either. Poo.

Some of these guys are making a shiny income attending these events. Gold sells, plain and simple. Compare the profit per hour vs. what you do for a living. Some of them do that, and some make a true profit out of a hobby. I applaud them for it.

If the ones I know are dupers, that would be news to me. I really don't care if it's fact or not. Honestly, I really don't give two sh1ts about what someone else does in this game. If they made 140k last year selling duped items and gold, my hats off to them for figuring out a way to make that much money legally. If I had the option to dupe gold in this game 5-6 years ago, I would have taken advantage of it. So would EVERYONE here. My family is worth the injustice of a friggin videogame, if yours isn't, then I feel sorry for them.

I understand dupers ruined the economy, and led to its eventual death. It really sucks, but we're all constantly arguing over spilled milk. Dupers exist, they always will (under our current circumstances). My friends are 'probably' not dupers, but if they are...oh nooooes. Holy crap, they are providing for their family outside of their occupations!

My real pancake is why hasn't the game transitioned over to 3D yet? Why are we still screwing with bugs when we've had 14 years to iron them out? Why are there STILL loopholes that allow people to exploit game mechanics?

Don't hate the dupers, hate the devs for allowing the loopholes to remain open. They allow people to make XXX a year selling gold. They allowed the economy to tank.

I agree with you Hera. Real life comes first. UO is a game. If pixels are worth such a price and so coveted by the player base to put aside real life for pixels I feel sorry for them. If EM events would not have any items these issues would not be an issue.

To call people lazy when real life is more important in any situation than a game is stupid.

Then you also agree that Rare Collectors earn their items and their gold fair and square.

I never said they didn't earn it fair. I was discussing that calling people lazy because of not attending or not busting their arse to go to every EM events is stupid.

I really don't care for these so called rare pixels. I have seen what they do at these events. I have seen the chaos of large guilds hogging the events for a chance to gain that pixel so their own guild rare collector will pay them millions for it.

It's like throwing a crust of bread to a 1000 starving people and watch them fight over it. That is my take on it. My opinion. Not directed to you or anybody else personally.

I dont hate the rare community or accuse them of any wrong doing. Greed? Hmmmm possibly but doesn't hurt my game play. Yet again this issue of stolen stuff at these rare events is again an issue on these boards. Surprised Mesanna didnt do a shard revert over it when she has done so before. The item was just stolen so it was no issue with her was it?

Eliminate bank checks and make the bank bound to the account.

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

Too late!

*draws blood*

At any rate; sorry.

It looked to me like you were replying to me, as the content was not dissimilar.

-Galen's player

Nay I made an edit like 2min before your post to clarify. If everyone wouldn't quote so much, I could just delete my posts from this thread, and we could solve this problem.