What would you of done with Magincia?

[MrAlien]

I know a lot of people are disappointed with how the rebuilding of Magincia is going to play out. So I am curious, if you were the Devs, what would you of done?

I would of created a normal city layout with every type of shop but started everything off as scaffolding/rubble. Then I would of let the players actually build up each individual building and object using resources. This would be as simple as walking up to the object and double clicking it. It would then list the resources required and how much. Simply click the donate button and type in the amount you'd like to donate, kind of like the britain/vesper museum collection boxes. Once the object got all the required resources it would then transform into what it is supposed to be. This could be a very simple system, or it could be very complex. For example, it could just take 1000 boards to build a fence. Or it could take 500 boards, 100 logs, 20 nails, 50 beeswax, etc. And there would even be special hard to build items around town that would require even rarer resources. Like peerless parts.

Then I would of made it so that the more a building was completed the more features that building would have. Either via a tier system or just depending on what part of the buildings were completed. So as an example let's say theres a stable. If players completely built up the fence area around the stable then animals would start spawning in the fenced area. Kind of like the zoo but on a smaller scale. Just a nice little reward that shows your hard work paid off, the town is healthy, and just to create a nice ambiance.

But, every object would require upkeep and repairs otherwise it would disappear. So if the fences were not properly repaired and taken care of they would disappear and the animals would too!

This would actually work on a grander scale then just pointless little animals. For example the tailor shop would start off empty. But players could build up the walls, floors, display cases, looms, spinning wheels, etc. And the more they built the more useful the shop would be. And the more complete the shop is would determine what NPCs spawn.

But you may be asking what is the point of all this? Why spend all my time and resources trying to build up the city? There are already cities that have all of that stuff!

Well, you see, by helping build up the buildings and maintain the repairs/upkeep players would gain points. And then they would be able to use these points to claim special items at special NPCs within the shops. The special NPCs would spawn once the building is fully built and in full repair. The items could be anything from decorations to useful items. The possibilities are endless. And each shop would have unique items.

The cool thing about this is that the amount of points needed to claim an item could be as low as 100 points or as high as 100,000 points. So it would take quite a bit of time to save up enough points to claim all the rewards since there would be dozens of them. So the city would stay active for a very long time. Since you'd have to stay around the city to spot when an object needed repair.

I might of even made it so building certain items around the town would require specific skills and gave a specific type of points. For example if you build a fence it would require carpentry skill. And you'd gain carpentry points which could only be spent at the carpenter shop. This might cause smiths to actually sit in the blacksmith waiting for the anvils and forges to need repair so that they could gain blacksmithing points. Just an idea I don't know if I would go down this route or not!

I think the public garden idea is great so I would of kept that in or incorporated it in somehow. Gosh it would really help if there was an actual gardening skill! Then the plants around the city would need to be maintained and the special NPC rewards could be new seeds or something that you can only get at Magincia. How cool would that be? To actually use your skill, on a daily basis, to save up enough points, to earn items, that you actually use with the skill? Not only do you help the city looking good but you'd also get cool new plants for your effort! And if the plants around the city ever started to die...the devs could simply add a new seed type and all the plants around the city would immediately start thriving again as players would want the new seeds. Not that the flowers would ever die cause I would make it take a long time to get enough points and with so many people wanting them it'd be a bit of a challenge. (The devs could make it so you could only repair a few objects per day in order to let everyone have a chance to earn some points.)

Well whatever that is just the way I would of done it. Trying to actually build the town. Maintain the town. Keep people active in the town. And give rewards based on the town. Etc etc etc. If done properly (by limiting the amount of decay/repair/points per day) it could of kept the town active and thriving for years to come!

How about you guys? What would you of done?

 

[MrAlien]

Oh I forgot to explain how I would of added love for thieves! I guess I'll just quickly say that those hard to build objects that would require peerless items etc that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread would randomly release some days and be stealable by thieves. Not only would this give thieves a way to score some cool items but it would also allow people to rebuild the object making people able to get more points! Thats one thing I would of done for thieves among other things.

 

[Lord Tonberry]

Well, the real problem I have with Magincia is the fact that us players had no say in how it's rebuilt.
Basically, the attitude of the devolopers is this: This is how we are doing it, we're running the show, it's my idea, and that's that.

They had a perfect chance to get some community and RP'ing chances for us to get involved in.

But to answer your question, I'd give the players several choices.

A) Leave Magincia as a barren waste. - Done by not fighting off Virtuebane and the Blackrock Golems and letting them win.

B) Turn Magincia into New Magincia with sheppards, sheep, large open fields, small NPC houses, and tents. - Done by defeating Virtuebane on Magincia and doing nothing more.

C) Turn Magincia into what the developers are currently planning with several player houses, gardens, etc. - Done by defeating Virtuebane on Magincia and then, I like the plan MrAlien has for this one. Gets the community involved in helping re-build, in a virtuous manner.

D) Return Magincia to it's former pridefull glory! - Done by defeating Virtuebane on Magincia and then have the former NPCs of Magincia return and set up camp near the beachto the north. Give them gold, rubble, jewels, and other valuable items. In return, they feed your ego with pixel crack, (my favorite!), cool decos, and tier stuff almost like spring cleaning.

 

[Woodsman]

New Magincia is supposed to be the City of Humility, and it's supposed to be player-driven and player-built.

While people may disagree over whether it will become Luna 2.0, many do acknowledge that the majority of houses will end up with the richest players, which definitely goes against the whole Humility thing. As it stands, many players, including the gold resellers, are going to enter the lottery to make a quick buck, which also seems to go against the whole Humility/player-driven concepts. Houses should be placed by people who actually care about New Magincia and who aren't entering the lottery with the idea that they can invest a small amount of gold and rake in a few hundred million gp.

With that in mind, I would enact some restrictions:
1) The deeds and plots cannot be transferable, period.
1a) Any accounts that are sold with such plots, the plots will be put back into the lottery when ownership of the account is changed. Any attempts to circumvent this will result in the account being banned and the plot going back into the lottery.
2) Any plots pulled by players who don't want to have a house in New Magincia will automatically enter the lottery again.
3) Houses must be placed within 30 days of winning the deed, or they go back into the lottery.
4) Any account that is suspended payment-wise would lose the plot within 30 days, and the plot would go back into the lottery. No gaming of the system with timers or anything.
5) No odds displayed. Don't clue people in, especially the rich players, on houses on which they have more of a chance of winning. Make it blind.
6) If you don't make an effort to seriously develop the plot within 60 days, it goes back into the lottery. This is about rebuilding magincia, not winning a deed and then throwing up an empty lot.
7) Limit on vendors - no more than 3. This is supposed to be a humble city, not a city overrun with vendors. If you want more spots, then bid on a spot in the vendor bazaar.

This doesn't stop the richest from dumping a lot of money into the plots that have an unlimited number of tickets, but it will stop people whose only goal is to make a quick buck by winning a deed and then selling it. The fact that you can enter the lottery, get the deed, and then sell it without even placing is ridiculous.

They built a complex system that will benefit a maximum of 44 players per shard. I'd say let's get more use out of the lottery system, and don't allow for transfers, and let's put the houses in the hands of the players who care about New Magincia and not about making a quick bunch of gold. If a rich player wants to dump millions into the lottery, fine, they can win their houses, but they will either have to use them or lose them - no selling out, no ending up on gold reseller sites, etc., and they will have to dedicate an account to keep the house - no gaming the system.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Well, the real problem I have with Magincia is the fact that us players had no say in how it's rebuilt.

I've heard others say this and I have to say I don't get, at all, how people argue this.

Players will have the biggest say of any town in the game, because they will literally build it, save for a few fairly basic NPC buildings.

Whether you like the system or not? I don't see how it's arguable that we as players won't be building it because we literally will be building what appears to be the great majority of it.

-Galen's player

 

[Cadderly]

Moved Buc's den to that island.

 

[jaashua]

MrAlien, your idea is too complicated. it also calls for a lot more work by the devs coding and testing all that.

1) What they are doing now is not horrible......it just needs a little spice. Just restrict housing to the sandstone tile set so you don't have log cabins and pagodas all over the place. And make it so player vendors in Magincia don't charge the house owner. That would give Luna some serious competition.

2) Rebuild the city one building at a time. The style and purpose of each building would be determined by mini-events....scheduled at regular times....not all combat based. Depending on the outcome of the events you'd end up with one of two or three possible buildings. So everybody gets a hand in choosing. Some possibilities for some events would be, for example, a building with a weekly raffle for one of what would be Magincian Artifacts (pixel crack). This is a permanent gold sink and adds some cool new pieces into the system. An example of an event would be like the TF2 demo vs soldier. The devs announce that whichever is killed more over the next 48 hours, blood elementals or snow elementals will determine whether you get a cobbler shop with raffle box or a statue of Dupre that will give you one guaranteed enhancement every 3 months at a cost of 1M gold. Or have a collection box and announce that whichever gets turned in more, horned leather or dull copper ingots, would determine whether you get a blacksmith or tanner. Etc.

To me, that involves the players more and gives us a place worth returning to.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Copied and pasted from another thread, here is how I would have done it.

I would have had a combination of quests and collections, wherein we in essence picked from several different development plans. One would have been New Magincia from Ultima lore, more or less; one would have been Old Magincia, more or less; one would have been a hybrid. (Like say, collect a certain amount of woods, the city becomes New Magincia. Collect a certain amount of marble or rock or something, the city becomes Old Magincia. Collect both and it develops into a hybrid.) Shards that lost the Magincia Attack event from way back would have had to work harder to achieve any result at all.

My idea specifically would have had less player input than the current proposal does, and would have been trashed along those lines, I am certain.

The criticisms would have been along these lines: This is not "real" player-driven rebuilding, this is a collection system wherein we merely pick between alternatives. We need a "real" player-driven system.

I bet someone would even propose letting the players build houses on the island.

I also have no idea how code-intensive my idea would be. I bet the current proposal isn't as code-intensive as it appears to some. In fact I bet its being less code-intensive is one of its virtues, if our speculation that UO's pretty much operating on a skeleton crew is correct.

-Galen's player

 

[gunneroforgin]

rebuilt it the way it was.

 

[Viper09]

Well, the real problem I have with Magincia is the fact that us players had no say in how it's rebuilt.

Ugh, yeah. It does come down to the developers, pretty much like every MMO. But we kind of have a say in how it's rebuilt. They get some of their ideas from our input. Actually, a lot. Unless you're arguing that we, as players, don't have complete power in it's re-building. If we did we would never come to a good conclusion and the darn thing would never get done as we really couldn't all agree to one thing, lol.

My idea for Magincia would be a bit different. Maybe have a number of different options on how the city is designed, each one with their own special differences and players on each shard would get to vote on their favorite outline for the city. Such as original outline of the city, the new one, etc. Highest tally would be how Magincia is re-built. Nice thing about this would be that different shards would have a different build for Magincia.

 

[Jhym]

You have to be careful with complex systems: the harder the devs work on something, the less likely they are to do it again when players don't actually use it much.

I do think they need to add to the lottery idea, however:

ALL plots can ONLY be public, no private plots.

Each of the player-built plots will also support 1-5 NPCs. The plots will randomly (per shard/facet) each have a group of spawned NPCs, that -may- reflect the apparent purpose of the plot.

For example:

npc group (2) of provisioners
npc stablehand
npc trainers (up to 5) random types
npc mayor/officials
npc sailors
npc gypies
npc mages

etc.

These would be specialized npcs that only spawn in magincia and have extra capabilities for the owner of the plot.

For instance, the NPC provisioners could also sell up to 10 items FOR the owner at whatever price for a fee. The stablehands can "take care of" one player pet for the player for a fee of 100G/day (the player would tell the pet to friend/follow the stablehand, and it would act as though it was idle within the plot.) Each npc would have some minor difference from their standard type.

This would make magincia still have the "town" aspect but allow the players to make some difference of their own. If people can't stand the idea of npcs being around the devs could add something to turn them off, but I see no reason people can't accept boarders without having a conniption.


As for alternatives -- I would have allowed people to "board" within the town. If you don't own a house, Magincia would have several inns that work like the standard ones BUT allow the player access to a chest with up to 50 storage for a fee. Perhaps allow Legendary thieves to steal things from them in Felucca (or Seige) just to spice it up a bit.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I would love to hear how Draconi and crew had it planned out compared to the current version. (But then I would love to go back and see the original vision from the initial introduction of KR forward)

His leadership seemed to be wanting to put a LOT more Ultima lore back into the game. The current leadership I get the feeling is moving away from that for one reason or another. I could be wrong, but that is the impression I get as you can basically feel the change in direction since Draconi, Leuro, etc left.

What I personally would have done is rebuilt the city as an NPC city as the city of Humility (New Magincia) but woiuld go further in that I would also attempt to implement the Humility virtue, not as the grind-a-Virtue versions we have now, but a quest-driven one with NPCs giving the necessary quests to build up the points in the virtue and require a periodical need to meditate at the Humility Shrine to maintain.

There would be no random NPCs, but all NPCs with a purpose to the town. Think more along the lines of the NPCs in the single player games. Even if they can't be beholden to a daily schedule, they should be given a series of conversation pieces (with keywords to progress through) to tell the story of how they arrived in New Magincia and that ties into the quest or quest series they are involved in.

I would then use that as the template to revamp the rest of the cities accordingly to their canon Virtue.

 

[ChReuter]

What would I have done? Not destroyed it and reopened the one tile spot under the bank! Best stat pk banking spot UO ever had!!!

 

[Taylor]

I guess I'm in the minority that doesn't really mind how new Magnicia is turning out. Kinda looking forward to the new pet-selling system, tbh. Besides, there are plenty of other things that I'd rather see fixed.

 

[Lord Tonberry]

Ugh, yeah. It does come down to the developers, pretty much like every MMO. But we kind of have a say in how it's rebuilt. They get some of their ideas from our input. Actually, a lot. Unless you're arguing that we, as players, don't have complete power in it's re-building. If we did we would never come to a good conclusion and the darn thing would never get done as we really couldn't all agree to one thing, lol.

Nah, I don't think players should have absolute control, just for the reason you gave which I agree with 100%.

But you're saying that you had a say in how they decided to re-build? At least you did, because I didn't.

IMO, the only players that will have any say are the few who get houses there.

 

[Viper09]

Nah, I don't think players should have absolute control, just for the reason you gave which I agree with 100%.

But you're saying that you had a say in how they decided to re-build? At least you did, because I didn't.

IMO, the only players that will have any say are the few who get houses there.

Not direct say in how it's re-built, but the devs get their ideas based off the player base, the history of positive and negative feedback, etc. And the people who get their houses don't exactly get more say than anyone. They just get to contruct a house.

 

[WildWobble]

They should have put up a design contest like with brit bank and had everyone who wanted to enter then Post a link to where the idea's are stored and let players browse them and vote for the ones they liked the best. Then they should have let the players work on building the shops ext. with crafters and resources. I like the idea of being able to place npc's beyond a barkeep and its dismal list of options, It would be nice to be able to place an npc provisioner or mage ext ext in ones home.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Well, the real problem I have with Magincia is the fact that us players had no say in how it's rebuilt.

I've heard others say this and I have to say I don't get, at all, how people argue this.

The ability to place houses in a city isn't much of an impact on how it's built. Why? Simple, people will build houses for themselves, not their community.

Whether these houses become residences or hideously fugly vendor malls as in Luna, it doesn't matter - they aren't there "for the city."


MrAlien's plan is far more interesting then the cut-and-paste job they are doing to create another Luna/Zento. Without some meaningful NPC buildings (along with many quests and things to do) New Magincia will have little meaning outside of more housing.

However, I would take out the upkeep cost from the equation, since we have empirical evidence from the Community Collections that it doesn't keep anyone's interest for long enough.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The ability to place houses in a city isn't much of an impact on how it's built. Why? Simple, people will build houses for themselves, not their community.

Whether these houses become residences or hideously fugly vendor malls as in Luna, it doesn't matter - they aren't there "for the city."


MrAlien's plan is far more interesting then the cut-and-paste job they are doing to create another Luna/Zento. Without some meaningful NPC buildings (along with many quests and things to do) New Magincia will have little meaning outside of more housing.

However, I would take out the upkeep cost from the equation, since we have empirical evidence from the Community Collections that it doesn't keep anyone's interest for long enough.

OK....But don't you think if they did it the way I said I'd prefer, which you've seen and is in this thread someplace if you need it as a reference, that some would say it wasn't a sufficient-enough impact?

And what I mean, in referring to the housing as a significant impact, is this.

Imagine a new player, walking through the Magincia Moongate. They see a some kind of settlement. Either they see a humble shepherd village, a mighty center of commerce, or a war-ravaged ghost town. The primary determinant of that first impression, once this idea is implemented, will be the players, for better and worse.

On that level, I honestly have a hard time imagining a more significant impact for players to have. Even if they do it unconsciously by making houses just for themselves, that first impression will still be formed by their results, irregardless of motives. (And yes, irregardless is a real word, it's just not in-favor.)

-Galen's player

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

They should have just put it back like it was. It should have remained that way ... period.

Magincia is part of something larger than the current game...or the current dev team.

Ultima has a history...a rich, and storied history...that does not included custom houses that look like dirt plots or McDonald's.


Just my OPINION.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

(And yes, irregardless is a real word, it's just not in-favor.)

Yes...it is a "real" word, just like RubixCube, or Pokemon, or MoccaLatte.

Just because it is socially acceptable does not make it a part of the actual vernacular.

-Morgana's former player-

 

[a slave girl]

So long as Magincia has all the amenities that Luna has OR luna gate gets moved down to that bridge and OR rental vendors are removed from the game, I am ok with the devs proposal for the rebuilding and raffling of house spots.

The one thing I would love throughout the game, is allowing players to increase their house storage by using Local tiles to build with. (Maybe 1 extra storage for every 4 Local tiles used?)

For example Magincia was/is a tropical island and therefore the new houses should all reflect that in their tile sets.

In the real world, if you lived on an island, your homes and cities would be built of the available local materials.

In Tokuno there is nothing more awful than an seeing a English style mansion towering overhead, that always reminds me of Steven Spielberg's best movie ever, Empire of the Sun.

Christian Bale stars as a spoiled English boy living in a huge English style manor house in the Chinese countryside in the late 30's. His dad runs a textile mill or some such. The Japanese are in the process of invading that area of China. The movie is set just before they attacked Pearl Harbor.

Jamie, Christian Bale, gets separated from his parents as they flee the country, and he ends up spending the next 4 years of his life in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

Before he lands in the prisoner of war camp though, he makes it back to his family mansion, only to find it's been/being looted by the locals.

He bumps into his Chinese nanny who he used to order around, and she gives his face a smack.

I feel like she must have when I see those English style houses in Tokuno.

I just want to smack someone.

 

[jaashua]

I only build houses with the gray stone tiles or the sandstone tiles. The Japanese tiles to me look messy and indistinct. I can't tell the difference between the doors and windows and walls and floors. I feel like I'm stuck inside some kids geometry homework or some kind of balsa wood Tron. Screw that.

This is the medieval age. I'm riding an opaque llama, my hair is neon green to match my sun glasses, my sword is glowing blue, and I just ate three trays of muffins and am only somewhat full. Yet you're going to begrudge a guy for building a castle?

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

Hail Sosarians,

Let me comment on "New Magincia." The Rebuilding of Magincia is a Major Event in Sosarian Lore. It is Directly tied to the Virtues as its destruction came as a result of its Extreme Pride and Vanity, and New Magincia is the Virtue Town of Humility.

Yet all we are getting is an Island full of player housing and a players garden.

This is disappointment on an Epic Scale!

Why not use this opportunity to do something bold, such as creating Shops with a small number of Vendor Tiles ...Players could rent a vendor in a Shop ...the mode of dress would be set by the Devs and unchangeable and the wares would be required to match the Shop type ...bows/arrows/bolts/shafts/feathers etc in Bowyer Shop, armor at armorers weps at wepsmith etc, ...the rental would last one week or one month whichever best meets player play periods and same account would have to wait a period of time to apply again for rent in same Shop

Why not re-Introduce Katrina as Mayor of Magincia (played by Dev or EM sometimes ...NPC AI rest of time) and Tie this into adding the Humility Skill into the already established in game Virtues such as Sacrifice, Compassion, Valor, etc.

Why not a few Virtue Quests or maybe a few different Humility Quests begun in Magincia

Many more Player Ideas I'm sure are on Players Minds ...C'mon Folks add them to this Thread. Even if its To Late to do this before Rebuild this month, Give Dev's food for thot for future inclusion.

An SoS

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

OK....But don't you think if they did it the way I said I'd prefer, which you've seen and is in this thread someplace if you need it as a reference, that some would say it wasn't a sufficient-enough impact?

Yes, someone will whine either way, such is human nature. But that’s not a reasonable reason to accept this boring "proposal" document.

Being able to build a house has nothing to do with rebuilding the city. None whatsoever. None of the player-owned buildings will have ANYTHING to do with the city, they will simply be shops or housing - more than likely using the tackiest tile sets possible.

Now, if an RP group got a hold of a majority of the plots, they might actually build things which are community-related. But I think we all know who is the most likely to acquire the majority of plots.

And what I mean, in referring to the housing as a significant impact, is this.

Imagine a new player, walking through the Magincia Moongate. They see a some kind of settlement. Either they see a humble shepherd village, a mighty center of commerce, or a war-ravaged ghost town. The primary determinant of that first impression, once this idea is implemented, will be the players, for better and worse.

New players? In UO? Sorry, not buying it... New Magincia isn't for them, its for the long-time players - those of us who put up with this cluster of an event arc for the last 3 years.

We were given to believe that the rebuilding of the city would be a big event in-and-of-itself, not the flipping of a switch and the isle is magically restored.

On that level, I honestly have a hard time imagining a more significant impact for players to have. Even if they do it unconsciously by making houses just for themselves, that first impression will still be formed by their results, irregardless of motives. (And yes, irregardless is a real word, it's just not in-favor.)

*sighs*

The Devs could have held a contest for players to redesign the city, or individual buildings. Hell, they could have asked us what WE wanted New Magincia to be. It’s patently clear that the Dev Team has virtually NO knowledge of Ultima, nor do they seem to care.

Or they could have lived up to what they'd said since SA went live and actually had the player's rebuild the city through resource gathering and such. The ever-changing face of the team isn't an excuse for laziness.

These are the kinds of things we want better communication over, especially before some lazy half-assed plan gets rammed down our throats.

 

[Landicine]

Being able to build a house has nothing to do with rebuilding the city. None whatsoever. None of the player-owned buildings will have ANYTHING to do with the city, they will simply be shops or housing - more than likely using the tackiest tile sets possible.

Now, if an RP group got a hold of a majority of the plots, they might actually build things which are community-related. But I think we all know who is the most likely to acquire the majority of plots.

*looks out window at city of Cambridge*
*sees shops and homes and apartment complexes*
*runs back to desk to disagree that shops and housing have a lot to do with cities*

I'm going to also disagree with the whole RP and community comment. While I consider myself a roleplayer, I will argue that the best community builders on my shard of Lake Superior are, in fact, not roleplayers. Roleplay has been in decline on LS for years since internal conflict became more important than telling stories.

I still don't get the problem with this plan. The alternatives seem worst:

1. The 3-year revert plan - Bring back the prideful marble buildings as if nothing ever happened, and let the players complain that it took years to basically just go back to an old map file.

2. The random shepard village - Toss down some shacks and sheep that fit what happened to Magincia in the single player games, and let the players complain that it took years for something they will never visit.

3. The community collection - Toss in a few collection boxes with prizes, and let the players complain about scripters, boredom, and mediocre prizes. After they lose interest, the town starts to collapse like many shard's already present COMMUNITY collections.

4. The super imaginary alternative - A dream of a perfect Magincia plan that melds plot and brilliant mechanics to make everyone on UHall perfectly happy. A plan that was clearly hinted at by long-gone former dev team members in a minor post 3 years ago...

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

*looks out window at city of Cambridge*

*sees shops and homes and apartment complexes*
*runs back to desk to disagree that shops and housing have a lot to do with cities*

Shops and homes are an integral part in REAL cities. UO cities are far from real. They are static, open 24/7 (sans downtimes), never need cleaning, etc.

I'm not saying that player housing isn't appropriate for New Magincia, sorry if that got lost in the post. However, I do think that it is a bad idea to hinge the 'interactivity' of the city on raffling off plots. This makes the city no more interactive then Luna or Zento - vendors aren't real interaction. The novelty will wear off quickly.

New Magincia does need some aspect of Humility to it. Having a majority of buildings be player housing isn't going to achieve this. Players go for flash and displays of wealth, the polar opposite of that the city is supposed to be about. While we don't need a tiny ramshackle sheepherding village, we do need some sense of the actual Virtues in UO - lest the entire underlying theme of the arc be tossed into the sea.

I'm going to also disagree with the whole RP and community comment. While I consider myself a roleplayer, I will argue that the best community builders on my shard of Lake Superior are, in fact, not roleplayers. Roleplay has been in decline on LS for years since internal conflict became more important than telling stories.

The RP community was an example, I should have been more specific. Atlantic has a group that is supposed to be from Magincia, they would probably be interested in running the city as a city.

Not all RP groups have such ambitions. On GL, while we care about Magincia in our RP, and have made many efforts to combat the Isle's corruption, we have next to no interest in building there.

Internecine strife seems to be common in RP communities. We tend to draw many Type-A personalities and allow cliques to form within the community, ultimately unraveling whatever has been built. Some cling too closely to what’s past, stifling future movement, change and creativity. Human nature is what it is, sadly.

I still don't get the problem with this plan. The alternatives seem worst:

1. The 3-year revert plan - Bring back the prideful marble buildings as if nothing ever happened, and let the players complain that it took years to basically just go back to an old map file.

Agreed, reverting back to what came before completely negates any ‘emotional impact’ or the arc.

2. The random shepard village - Toss down some shacks and sheep that fit what happened to Magincia in the single player games, and let the players complain that it took years for something they will never visit.

Galen is right in saying that someone will complain regardless of what happens, we can’t help that.

3. The community collection - Toss in a few collection boxes with prizes, and let the players complain about scripters, boredom, and mediocre prizes. After they lose interest, the town starts to collapse like many shard's already present COMMUNITY collections.

Simply make the collection levels static. Once the buildings are completely built, that’s it. Like what was done in Britain with the defensive walls. Perhaps there could be a few ongoing collections, but nothing overly spectacular. Mediocre prizes would fit in with the whole Humility vibe, not everything needs to spawn uber leet gear and flashy deco.

Scripters are apparently an accepted reality at Mythic, since nothing is done about them.



The current method only gives 22 people per facet a way to ‘interact’ with the rebuilding of the city. Not exactly a great way to end an “epic” 3 year arc in an MMO, it would be better to involve as many people as want to participate. While the EMs can do this to an extent, Mythic is already dumping a lot in their laps.

 

[Landicine]

From what has been said and been in the patch notes, the player plots aren't the entirety of the Magincia plan, and there seems to be unused land in the plan that was previously the jungle area. It is possible in the future, more community options could be added.

I also believe that player housing is one of the best community tools in UO. I've seen taverns, libraries, dueling pens, temples, post offices, auction houses, haunted houses, and even a giant sledding hill. I've also seen the large ugly toy-storage cubes and flat open vendor pens. The responsibility for what we build or don't build does seem to rest with us. We, the players, made Luna what it is. I'm not sure what tools the dev team could possibly give us that we would not sometimes twist toward profit.

LS's High Council is going to lose the Parliament Hall it used for years to a bank that may or may not see activity. From the number of screaming posts we've seen about this, you can imagine how large a group this is. It happens. I actually like the lotto system since I have as fair a chance of getting a plot as I could probably have, and it will be interesting to see how Magincia goes. I would like to believe that we can build something cool. For a moment maybe.

 

[Adol]

A simple sketch of what I would have done, after simply sitting down to write a first draft idea.

PART ONE: Preperation

Preparing for the final event; Announce that the Bane are moving to Magincia a week before the event, to give people time to choose their final side. City invasions every day to give people the opportunity to adapt their reputation.

On the Friday before the move for the final event, do a server wide accounting. Link the strength of Virtue Bane in the final battle to the following

a.) The number of Corrupted Books of Truth; more Bane members makes Virtue Bane a happy daemon.
b.) The number of cities that fell to the Bane
c.) To a lesser extent, the number of people who have more Bane reputation than Ophidian/Meer, to indicate a rough "level of support" amongst the populace.

Weaken him again in turn for the level of anti-Bane support.


PART TWO: The Event:

From here on in it would require some EM/GM control. The Bane rise a shield around the centre of Magincia, where suitably spikey and evil building materials can be seen... they are clearly going to make it their new capital. At the very centre, on an inverted UO style throne, sits Virtue Bane. Inside is a teleporter that only works for those with positive Bane reputation (Friend or above say) so they can join him.

In order to break the first shield, you need to use the Principle of Courage. The uncorrupted bells from each city that didn't fall are placed at beach heads around the outside of the shield, which the players will have to clear the bane long enough to clear; it would use the Champion spawn code, but instead of popping the Champion at the end, an altar appears which allows the bell from one city to arrive.

I'd have to do some thinking about what would be a suitably courage number of bells to have the shield drop; I'm not sure how people have done on every shard. Losing it completely at this stage would be frustrating if people hadn't saved enough cities, so an alternative it could be that each bell removes one side of the shield, the more shields are down the more you can move about Magincia of course, so there's a tactical but not absolute bonus. Make the shield 8 sided perhaps, the number of the virtues and cities that were attempted to be corrupted.

Once the shield (or a part of it) falls down, Virtue Bane raises a much smaller shield around his throne. To pass this one, you need to practice the Principle of Truth. All those with uncorrupted Books of Truth sacrifice them here to an NPC, who manages to drop the shield based on a timer which lengthens dependent on the number of books. If that proved too difficult to code, Virtue Bane is surrounded by huge rows of Poison field (he's poisoning the minds of Sosaria after all), and one row of Fields is removed for each Book of Truth that is humbly given to the cause instead of being hoarded for Greed for Rares (and yes, I've got 3... I took them to help the event, and would gladly give them up if there was a point to it)

After which the fight against Virtue Bane begins. Those who joined him inside the shields find that they can heal him with either bandages, spells, or using potions on him. This part is on a fixed timer; The stronger he is, and the more Bane Chosen players healing him the harder he's going to be to take down of course. Those who sacrificed a Book of Truth get a hidden bonus to damaging him (humility!) in turn.

If Virtue Bane isn't defeated before time runs out, the people of Sosaria lose hope, the event ends outright, and Magincia falls to Virtue Bane.

If he is beaten, the NPC leading the fight declares that the final part is to imprison Virtue Bane for ever, so he cannot threaten the Realm. But no ordinary chains will bind him. Therefore, invoking the Principle of Love, he is taken to one of the rooms in Castle Britannia (one of the rooms where the Abyss housing NPCs were perhaps) and using the wedding rings of Ors and Queen Dawn as the final link in the chain, he is shackled to the wall for now.

Part Three: The Fate of Magincia and Virtue Bane.

If Virtue Bane won, an evil city is built, where only those with positive Bane reputation may shop, bank, stable. The Meer and Ophidian will always give Bane reputation, so those who wish to side with this faction later can do so. Around the city, outside of the Guard zones are normal Bane for those who wish to raise the opposing reputation. The quests introduced over the arc remain active, so people can get their own Bane Dragon food for instance.

One week later, Virtue Bane invites those who helped him to this victory to come visit his throne in the centre to receive his thanks. Needless to say lots of people will turn up to boo too... but that's ok because...

During the prior event, those who healed Virtue Bane have been flagged. Anyone whose name is on a Book of Truth is also recorded. Anyone who turns up as Friend or above is notable. Virtue Bane invites them all up onto a podium, to bow to the crowd. And then kills every one of them as their "just" reward. And mounts their skulls, with name recorded for ever on his throne, as a permanent record of their treachery

Which would please the boo'ing crowd, and also pleases those who searched for infamy!


If Magincia is saved however, one week later the event is to chain Virtue Bane outside the city as a permanent reminder of how close the Realm came to losing the city. And of course, as a nod to where he was found in Ultima IV. The rings of Ors and Dawn are used again to bind him (and can be moused over to see what they are), and he's given a conversation tree recounting the Event for people to talk to him later.

The city is turned over to a humble set of wood huts surround by swamp, forever cursed by the blood of the fallen Bane (again CF Ultima IV etc) where players can run quests to cure the inhabitants of plagues and such that comes from the swamps. There is no reward at all except raising the now implemented Humility virtue.

The Humility virtue at each level (placeholder idea, just for completeness sake) gives a bonus to healing other people and their pets through any means.

 

[Landicine]

Since my last two posts didn't really answer this question:

In a perfect world, I would have split the space on the island between player housing and various community buildings.

Community Buildings:

1. The Basics - Stable, Healers, Bank. The most active blessed player towns I've visited usually got a stablemaster with their blessing and had nearby shrines or wandering healer spawns. A bank also makes sense. Those of us who remember Felucca Cove's lack of a bank remember how this is a requirement, especially if you want people to hold a variety of player events there.

2. Buildings with utility - The new bazaar would fall under this. Dueling arenas, bagball courts, race tracks would also be under this category.

3. A common social space - On some shards, the new Magincia tavern might get as many visitors as some of the old roleplay NPC taverns of old. The Keg and Anchor in Trinsic, Felucca, LS was vital to the early roleplay community.

3. Community projects - Community collections like the new garden fall under this.

Player Housing:

1. Small plots - One of my favorite features of the player town I was part of years ago was a row of small houses with GM-placed hedges. They were used as shops and the town inn, and they were right next to the tavern with a fountain out front. They made the place feel like a town, and not just a few large buildings in the same general area.

I see the problem with small plots. They lack for secure storage. My grandfathered account with a bunch of small houses has less total storage than my one 18x18. In this perfect imaginary world, I would link the new Magincia with a scaling housing system that allowed one large house, two medium houses, or three small houses, or some other similar system. The human desire to maximize a resource (most secures and space for one account) could be mitigated by such a system.

2. Controls to insure that long-term inactive accounts or houses owned by OSI are collapsed in a reasonable amount of time. - All future open plots on the island would be open to lotto and not placement.

I like the freedom of house placement, but for something like New Magincia which is to be a show piece for Ultima, I would try to keep the impact of scripters to a minimum.

3. No other restrictions - I wouldn't limit tile set choices or transfer rights. While I don't agree with the decorating choices of everyone in game, it isn't my place or anyone elses to say "Your in-game house is ugly. Change it."

I also believe transfer rights for houses aren't just for commerce. Guilds sometimes swap houses for convenience or roleplay reasons. People sometimes have to drop accounts for financial reasons, and in that case, do you really want to make someone choose between their favorite character or their favorite house?

 

[Woodsman]

Player Housing:

1. Small plots - One of my favorite features of the player town I was part of years ago was a row of small houses with GM-placed hedges. They were used as shops and the town inn, and they were right next to the tavern with a fountain out front. They made the place feel like a town, and not just a few large buildings in the same general area.

I almost think I would rather see 30+ smaller plots rather than 22 15x15s. I know some would complain about storage, but if a part of it is about being player-driven, the more players the better. If storage keeps some people away, those who would stick around would probably be more dedicated.

I've come across a couple of sites that I think kind of capture what I would have liked to have seen with New Magincia:

Mysterious Sosaria - New Magincia

The Titans of Ether - Ultima IX Redemption (look for New Magincia - it's not quite half way down the page)