pvp warrior help

[[JD]]

K I'm coming to you guys looking for some help. My warriors (archer, swords, throwing, etc) are fun to PVP with but I run into the same problems EVERY time.

I can only do 3-4 specials and the person either offscreens or dumps on me and I'm forced to offscreen. Or I have trouble doing burst dmg, even if I am doing consistant dmg to them, they just heal and I can never kill them.

I need to be able to do more than 4 specials to finish them off, or I need to use specials more sparingly/wisely so that I can use them when I need them most. Or maybe I need 100 med so I can do many, many more specials than I can now.

I have 40 LMC and either the first or second mana discount, usually 44-50 mana. 10 MR usually but that doesn't seem to help much except in an extended fight.

I'm running 180+ STA on a couple characters to reach highest swing points, I could always lower dex for more int but then I may lose 4 sec bandage, especially with curse. I notice a few enemy dexers do NOT go for 180 sta for highest swing speed ticks. I wonder about that sometimes as if you aren't doing consistant chain damage and you're jousting the whole dynamic changes and you really don't need those high swing points.

So what types of openers/combos would you use on the following chars:

Mounted Archer (weaps: bow, composite, heavy- could add a yumi)
I do good in a train as I will mortal/para shot targets while my group takes them down. Been playin with 100 hiding lately which has been fun, ill offscreen, enemy gank squad runs by, come out and attack last person in the train. But I could ditch 100 hiding for med/focus.

Bush Thrower (Cyclone, Soul Glaive)
Have option to use swords here but have to give things like resist up on template. Could use disarm gargish/bleed ubws war fork or sword of shattered hopes. Have a little leeway in my template.

The types of enemies I face run the gamut; myst mages; myst mage tamers, stealth archers, field archers, sampires...

Would you make changes like adding meditation or focus?

thanks

 

[WarUltima]

JD... I think something is up with your suit...
My 120 resist disarm ninja form archer (you should know the name) runs...
Chugged up to 150hp, 182stam, and 96mana (Human). Going elf will make me 149hp/181stam/116mana or I can fix it up and go 150/181/115. Either way I have max mana reduction on specials.

Either way as you see some of my hundreds of screenshots I have very little trouble surviving any ganking situation (thanks to 120 resist and animal form) and I wreck (pretty much every WaWaNoob) on the field when they try to face me 1v1 once in a blue moon.

If you can let yourself go without 180 stam, it makes your suit building a lot more easier. It's pretty easy to stay in the high 80s and low 100s in mana as a gargoyle and human. (Elves you can get 20 more mana pool) with 180+ stam and 150hp... just gotta take sometime with your suit.

 

[[JD]]

That's like double my mana :/

Do you just chug a greater str and dex pot on INC?

cause that would let me drop tons of stats and put into INT, instead. Is that all I need to do?

I have been trying to play toons which could pvp or pvm, but that would mean I would be optimizing for pvp side if I did that.

 

[WarUltima]

That's like double my mana :/

Do you just chug a greater str and dex pot on INC?

cause that would let me drop tons of stats and put into INT, instead. Is that all I need to do?

I have been trying to play toons which could pvp or pvm, but that would mean I would be optimizing for pvp side if I did that.

All the stats are after chug with 50ep...
That char (ii) is designed to PvP and only PvP and survive against zerg nooblet wawanoobs. So I have everything I need to stay alive and enough mana pool to burst down at least 1 of them zerggy nooblets before I have to run away to wait for mana to come back.

If you did the suit right (in my case) it's all 70 corpse proof, I can put out 24 moving shots consectively or 7 to 8 AIs with 1 chug of mana drough (AND more if you burn mana phasing orb). Hope that helps.

 

[superstang]

All the stats are after chug with 50ep...

Out of curiousity, do you run 50 EP all the time or do you switch out jewels for the initial chug?

 

[Smoot]

If your worried about bandaging, only dext affects it right? (havent used bandages in a while) You could free up a decent amount of stam mods (i would have 165 stam to counter the first damage)

So thats 15 more mana. Plus you can build a suit using items that give more mana than the max 8 from imbue.

You probably have, but i would use as many ssi items as possible, actually id probably drop healing as well.

And, you could add another damaging skill. Im a big fan of regs over lrc for pvp, so necro, or ( i hate to say ) mysticism could be added.

The easiest option is probaby spellweaving, no regs needed, some extra damage, and minimal skill points.

Hate to say it but "pure" templates arent nearly as good as they were in pvp.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Without meditation MR is not great. If you are human then you get the base 20 med and that helps a little. Here is some food for thought, but maybe no specific answer that's right for you and with your experience you probably know everything I say anyway.

You have few options with mana 1) start with so much it lasts the 5 hits it takes to kill them, 2) regenerate mana so fast your pool is always full, 3) leech. In all cases as you pointed out you want the 40 LMC as that makes the greatest impact by cutting down the consumer.

WarUltima's point about the pots may be the best first trial. I was recently considering a change to my suit where I would put as much int and mana increase on my suit and be geared towards using pots. Doing this you would be dependant on pots and have to watch that all the time, but number 1 above would be addressed. I would think there would be too much going on to switch out the jewelry every time you need the replenish. I haven't made a POT based stat suit yet, but I'm tempted since it really makes sense.

I had to go through this exercise when I had my pvp poison archer and what I did was used the lich form and had maximum meditation and maximum focus. In that case I was solving problem identified in number 2. I was back to back serpent arrow though so everyone was running away. When ML came out 100 poison and serpent arrow was pretty fun. This was over four years ago though. Regeneration is tremendous with this template and MR 16.

We know leeches are less in pvp, but you can leech 1-7 mana in pvp per hit in archery with HML. I tested this and posted in another thread. Wraith form in conjunction with mana leech on the weapon helps and takes from THEIR mana pool. The problem here is you have need high damage and requires a successful hit. The higher your SS the more mana leeched and can be up to 24% of the damage at 120 SS.

To get high damage for the leech I have been adding necro into my templates again. In this case you can first curse weapon, corpse skin, consecrate, and evil omen the target. In order to do any damage you need to hit the target so maximum 50 HLD, 50 HL, and 44 velocity on the first weapon you use and with something like a bleed weapon or mortal strike first. The second weapon you can drop the HLD and then use HML, HL, velocity, maybe hit area depending on situation, maybe balanced or HLA using Armor Ignore. Use refresh for stamina. Add in as many damage properties as possible to get the leeches effect.

You need 120 skill and maximum HCI. Even though Divine fury lowers you DCI it has some offensive benefits like +5 SSI, additional HCI, and refreshes stamina. I use lightning strike for the possible HCI. It's hard to know in the classic client if you have lower HCI.

I was using my bard today and did you consider partying with a bard for the masteries. My bard has the peacemaking masteries right now and resilience gives mana regen mine gives (5 HPR, 5 SR, 5 MR). Just another way to get mana.

Not sure if any of that helps, but a lot of this depends on your template and weapon. Go through all the skills and find all the ones that adds damage benefit and incorporate that and go as offensive as possible with HML.

-Lorax

 

[Capt.E]

I've been saying 50 ep rings since imbuing came out. The initial cost on Ecru is pretty high, since they are random and you need one with just what you are looking for. Str and Dex pots are necessary in PvP. All my toons are around 100 mana. I still run out, and if your running with half that I'd see a real problem.

Another HUGE benefit is drinking a heal pot, with 50 ep it is around 32-37 hp. That is pretty dang good.

 

[Picus at the office]

You have to base your PVP suits around 50 ep and constant chugging. 40LMC is a must as is some decent MR. I can't strive enough how handy and important 120 resist is, death follows closely a none stealther without resist.

I play on Napa where the PVP isn't as hot as some larger shards so my suits aren't as styleish as War's but he's got very good points.

 

[[JD]]

I have 50 EP now so thats all good. It's mainly the re-balancing of the stats around chugging a greater str/dex on incoming. It is very obviously hurting me that I cannot do 7-8 specials and fizzle out after 3-4.

As non-stealth archers, what do you do to wear someone down and kill them? Do you bother to dismount? What do you do about myst mage dumps? Myst mages are hugely prevalent on my server, and it seems if I try to stick around to kill them they do massive dmg, if I offscreen they heal up. So annoying. I do apples etc to get rid of spell plague/curses.

 

[Picus at the office]

I'd only dismount if they are on a ethy and you have a animal to get back onto but even then lots of people are running ninja to counter this. I mostly just plink a few arrows into the person to make them think I'm low on mana and once I see a dump coming I start with the AI's. If you can get a person 1/3 life gone without starting the AI's that is the optimal time. One AI and you can start the chase for moving shot.

You have dual hit spell? I've heard that focus is really good for a moving shot weapon but I've yet to try it out.

 

[Cetric]

You definitly need more mana as others have suggested. I could also recommend on non-archer dexers, get some mana leech on ur AI weap.

 

[[JD]]

I used to have a set of mana leech bows when I was running another config so I could always pull one of them out if I really needed it. But my bows now are all:

40 SSI
1 DI
50 Hit Spell (lightning for para bow, fireball for the rest)
38 Velocity
Balanced

Running 90 healing with enhanced bandies and 50 ep, doesn't seem enough to kill a stupid myst mage. I guess instead of AIing or mortaling etc right away I should fire some regular shots and then save the specials for when they are low.

Most the myst mages seem to be on ethies so they can cast colossus, and I run a faction horse. Though several of them seem to also be running speeders.

 

[Capt.E]

Most of the archers on my shard just blast AI nonstop until either you are dead. Use of items like mana draught let them do like 6-7 continuous. 3-4 should redline, then running shot. You just need more mana man. Mortal is also really nice aganst myst mages.

 

[WarUltima]

All suits of mine are based on pots. It really makes no sense not to do it.
The point of doing it is to maximize your int/mana.
7-8 AIs arent hard to do if you take my advise, and if I really tried I can pull off "alot more" AIs off with a hit mana leech bow.

Dexers are very powerful (If I am being ganked I'd rather being ganked by 3 myst mages than 2 disarm archers that knows what they are doing), especially if you get your suit and especially weapons right. To kill a myst mage is no different than killing regular mage, unless they start doing their BS prot cleansing wind spam then it will be completely different story (in this case try disarm AI AI AI AI AI AI, they will still die if they are stupid enough to stand still, but this doesnt work if you cant put out a lot of specials). Most mages you can simply chain AI with fireball and if you can do 7 to 8 AIs in a row no problem, you can out damage their Gheals, considering hit fireball is effectively guaranteed Gheal disrupt, and dual proc AI (if applicable) does upward 50 points of damage.

 

[WarUltima]

Out of curiousity, do you run 50 EP all the time or do you switch out jewels for the initial chug?

Perma-50EP.

 

[WarUltima]

I used to have a set of mana leech bows when I was running another config so I could always pull one of them out if I really needed it. But my bows now are all:

40 SSI
1 DI
50 Hit Spell (lightning for para bow, fireball for the rest)
38 Velocity
Balanced

Running 90 healing with enhanced bandies and 50 ep, doesn't seem enough to kill a stupid myst mage. I guess instead of AIing or mortaling etc right away I should fire some regular shots and then save the specials for when they are low.

Most the myst mages seem to be on ethies so they can cast colossus, and I run a faction horse. Though several of them seem to also be running speeders.

You should have at least a "ganking bow" or pure offensive bows... and another mistake you are making is putting 40ssi on all of your bows... depending on your suit many of them will have 5 to 10ssi worth of intensity "wasted" which is much better off if you put them in velocity and such.

 

[[JD]]

Hmm yes I think I have seen the ganking pure offensive bow, was giving it some thought. thats more of a finisher right? ive seen yumi's like that.

I should clarify I remade my comp and regular bow to look like i posted. 40 ssi would be wasted on a magical short. Do you use a magical short against mages with hit fireball 50 or just stick with the comp for AI?

i only run archery, no fencing for disarm, is that an epic fail? will probably end up turning my main archer into an archer tamer, balanced by pots.

also how much priority would you give to getting 32 sta increase on the suit to obtain 180+ STA. is it better to just have 150+ sta and +25 HP increase (plus all the usual stuff like 70s, LMC, etc) or is it better to have 180 sta but not full hp increase.

thanks for advice guys, one of these days I may suck less. lol

 

[WarUltima]

Archer without disarm is fine but then it will be really hard for you to kill mages that dont panic and will instant recast a gheal after you hit him and disrupt his first one. Most bad mages runs away and panic then get moving shotted down stupidly.

But if you are talking about a good mage pure archer without a ganking squad will be very hard to kill a "good" mage 1v1 (then use a magic shorty). Because their sustained healing power overpowers the amount of time you have to burst your damage. Mortal strike is an option but its again ineffective vs a mage that instant apple your mortal. You can spam mortal but then again you wont have much left for your AI. You are rolling your dice, and if you get lucky and your fireball goes off nearly every hit then it makes it much easier.

But if you ride with a group and one of you can disarm then it will be much easier.

IMO, Disarm archer to archers is like myst mage to mages.
And disarm is the special of the ultimate defense AND offense rolled into one. Bleed is right up them as well.

And again not all your bows need 40ssi... and I am talking about the big boys like heavy/comp/bow/yumi. Gotta know what you got on your suit or you have to come up with the answer to this one on your own (or other posters can help you cheating). The hint is there are different "magic numbers" for different bows while 99% of the archers automatically put 40ssi on all their main bows, I am telling you sometimes it's not necessary and a waste.

 

[Hi_im_from_atl]

FYI, most people forget about thier health bar when they are on offence. Time your 4 sec aids and have 50 ep then give them the ol' kildeer trick. Do a little small dam to get them to about 3/4 or 1/2 life slowly so not to scare them, then turn around and dump your blue bar. I open with a bleed off a wep with hld then normal hits off a bok once they are where I want them, NS/AI/AI etc.

PS. learn to kill without dissarm it only makes people insta-run.

 

[Cetric]

FYI, most people forget about thier health bar when they are on offence. Time your 4 sec aids and have 50 ep then give them the ol' kildeer trick. Do a little small dam to get them to about 3/4 or 1/2 life slowly so not to scare them, then turn around and dump your blue bar. I open with a bleed off a wep with hld then normal hits off a bok once they are where I want them, NS/AI/AI etc.

PS. learn to kill without dissarm it only makes people insta-run.

Learned to do that with my ninja. Focus attack (suttle dmg, guaranteed i just got my hld off) bleed (maybe another focus attack for good measure) deathstrike ai-(by this time they prolly ran and died anyways lol)-more ai as needed....

 

[Lynk]

Bleed tends to make mages go strictly defense too.