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J
[JD]
Guest
So the entire point of this thread is not the EC, it is watch what you download you might get a virus. Where have I heard it.. oh yeah, the Internet.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Yeah, as I said earlier, it's not these guys, or any one Mod, it's the entire environment that these games have moved into here.
Gamers try many games, many of them download all sorts of Mods, and many of them don't really know that they can get infected. They're kids who just think it won't happen and their excitement is in the way of good sense. They make easy "marks". And in this environment there are web sites that cater to it, with links to "your favorite Mods for your favorite games". There's all sorts of ways to get spyware into this. And these people may or may not be very good at their own security.
It's very careless, and the gaming industry has bought into it, and that's what sucks. Instead of saying "No, there's a risk here that we want no part of and we are warning you why", they say "Look at our community, be a part of it all." And protect themselves with a warning about "trusted sites" elsewhere. It's totally irresponsible.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Let me just add this too. Under the circumstances, UO probably did the best thing they could, if they were going to accept this environment. Which they didn't have to, but be that as it may. This setup at least offers more possibility for players to be careful.
Blizzard is who opened this door. Leaving everyone else with a harder decision to make.
Blizzard is who opened this door. Leaving everyone else with a harder decision to make.
A
anna anomalous
Guest
except this is all in the public domain being easily researched and noted upon. as stated before, there is a small amount of modders actually doing this hard work. these mods have thousands of downloads and nobody ever complaining of any sort of hack. this community is grassroots, not mainstream. it's trusted because those who find it find it from friends or through the stractics forums, which has great moderators that do their best to keep the players of ultima online safe from things such as this.
but hey, who knows, maybe one day we'll all wake up and pinco will own every house on the server? but until that happens, let's save the fearmongering.
but hey, who knows, maybe one day we'll all wake up and pinco will own every house on the server? but until that happens, let's save the fearmongering.
I thought you were just trolling at first but now I think you are actually serious. Mods are not some recent thing that came in with WoW or something. There have been mods for many many games and modding communities only strengthen the general community of a game. For example, I myself spent a lot of time trying out various Morrowind mods and I enjoyed doing it. UI mods for MMOs are just an extension of the desire a community has to add to the games they enjoy.
You ARE being paranoid. Sure, there is a certain ammount of risk involved in anything you do on the internet, but the way you talk about things makes me wonder why you haven't unplugged your modem yet. That's the only way you're going to be 100% safe.
This, my friend, uncovers you as the perfect troll... Just like I sort of thought you were... Discuss...
If you want to discuss things, you can't decide that an honest follow up question is "not worthy of your time". Anyhow, the advantages you mention are in the eye of the beholder. I will contend that I like the EC much better, but that is because it just makes my UO experience so much more enjoyable. I do not feel I have a competitive edge compared to my guildies who use the CC. To have those things added to the CC, even if it were possible, would turn it in... ehm... the EC. Why not just switch clients? Or complain about why the EC does not have feature a/b or c that the CC does have. Unfortunately, I don't think you were really looking for a debate on whether there is really a competitive difference between the clients, you just packaged your EC dislike and frustration in a clever way to see what would happen... discuss...
And lucky for you, you have managed to have yet again create a thread that sows paranoia and unfounded opinions to negatively impact the EC. Really too bad... the EC could be so good for everyone, and for the game at large, if this BS would not be fed to the lions time and time again...
The only counter argument remaining is: I do not like the graphics... and really, is that why you play this game? the graphics? Even my iphone games look better than the EC and the CC combined... graphics... that is not why we play this game...
I will also acknowledge that i do not know about the FCR issue you are talking about, but what ever it is, i still loose as much as I win in PvP, which tells me it is pretty balanced right now...
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Yeah, yeah, it's all perfectly safe out there. There's no cyber crime. People never get tricked into spyware. Never happens. Gotcha
NOONE has stated this. We have stated that the mods downloaded from the Exchange and Pinco's site are safe.
Let me go even further (I notice that there still are NO examples of a keylogger hiding in any of the file extensions posted) and explain the two sites.
The Modder's Exchange:
In order for a person to upload to the Exchange, they must download the correct software, set it up accordingly, register an account and request permission from Illandril, the site's adnim. ONLY THEN can they post anything to the site for download. As of right now, that list is very limited to 5 or 6 people.
Pinco's site:
In order for a person to post something on Pinco's site, they have to register, then the package has to be approved by Pinco before it becomes available to download.
These are NOT unmoderated sites, thus I can say with certainty as a contributor to BOTH sites AND as a user of the packages from boths sites that they are SAFE and that Trebr, you are being inordinately paranoid for no logical reason.
Yeah, yeah, it's all perfectly safe out there. There's no cyber crime. People never get tricked into spyware. Never happens. Gotcha
NOONE has stated this. We have stated that the mods downloaded from the Exchange and Pinco's site are safe.
Let me go even further (I notice that there still are NO examples of a keylogger hiding in any of the file extensions posted) and explain the two sites.
The Modder's Exchange:
In order for a person to upload to the Exchange, they must download the correct software, set it up accordingly, register an account and request permission from Illandril, the site's adnim. ONLY THEN can they post anything to the site for download. As of right now, that list is very limited to 5 or 6 people.
Pinco's site:
In order for a person to post something on Pinco's site, they have to register, then the package has to be approved by Pinco before it becomes available to download.
These are NOT unmoderated sites, thus I can say with certainty as a contributor to BOTH sites AND as a user of the packages from boths sites that they are SAFE and that Trebr, you are being inordinately paranoid for no logical reason.
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The only counter argument remaining is: I do not like the graphics
Thav the funniest thing about this is that the EXACT SAME people who say this also say that "graphics don't matter".
The only counter argument remaining is: I do not like the graphics
Thav the funniest thing about this is that the EXACT SAME people who say this also say that "graphics don't matter".
and the same who wants no cheat in game.... but until we have the 2d client we still have cheat.
Without knowing the exact numbers and purely based on my empirical data, more and more people are using the EC, even for pvp. Both here on stratics as well as in the game, resistance is waning. Several people I have played with over the last few months have switched, mostly right after buying a new pc. Some still don't like it, mostly because admittedly they just don't want to change for no reason. I point everyone to the mod exchange an pinco's site. And all just love it.
Nobody got a virus. Of course not. My credit card info was stolen at a gas station once. Should I now no longer get gas with a card? Maybe paranoia is inherent to human life and maybe it even serves an evolutionary purpose, but one can take it too far. And you are taking it too far Trebr. Yet I acknowledge you too as a great contributor on these forums. Please don't perpetuate this unfounded and hurtful stance towards mods though. It hurts the game you enjoy playing in the long run.
I would like to express my gratitude to dermott and pinco for putting so much time and effort into this game trying to make it so much better. They are succeeding in that goal and it is to the benefit of all, including forum lurkers like myself. Thanks! Don't let anyone paint you of as anything other than great contributors to this fantastic game!
Following Trebr's level of paranoia, your correct response would be to blow up your car and walk everywhere the rest of your life. It's the only way to be sure.
Guys please stop blaming the players for the failure of the EC. It wasn’t their fault. If it were a superior product it would have been the mainstream. But it wasn’t a superior product. Just think for a minute. Why would a company spend time and resources to modernize such a intricate and elaborate world? There are hundreds of thousands of hurdles to overcome both in graphics and UI. Why would they take on that insane challenge? To maintain the current user base who are happy with the CC for the most part? Does that make any sense at all? Does it make more sense that maybe they wanted to bring new blood to the game? Maybe they wanted to attract new players? Well… where are they? Where are the new players that flocked to the new client? Where are the hundreds of thousands of new customers that should have made the CC users the minority? They are not here. They didn’t come. They didn’t like it. It failed. Why on earth is that the CC user’s fault? There is a saying here: Don’t blame the players, blame the coach.
I’m not being “in your face” about this. I want it(EC) to be a success. I want to play it. I do use it from time to time. I know you (modders) have put a lot of time and effort in to your work. I know you are genuine and sincere. I know you are not trying to steal accounts. I appreciate you and all of your effort. I love Pinco’s UI. I have friends that have downloaded it and love it. It is absolutely amazing. It inspires me to start modding. It accomplishes every goal a game developer would want from introducing such a powerful tool to the masses.
I will never download it.
I do not think Pinco is a criminal. My gaming PC does not touch the internet for any reason other than gaming. I do not browse the net, download or check email on it. It is my rule and I will not break it… for any reason. Call me paranoid, call me a fear monger, insult me as you will. I learned all about peer pressure a long long time ago. It only leads to bad things *Pulls a cigarette out and lights it* mmmm smooooth!
I don’t want you modders to become security experts, you can’t do it. I want EA to back you. I want EA to sponsor a site to facilitate safe file exchange. I want EA to tell me that my account is saved when I download a file. I want EA to tell me to tell me they will revert my account if I download a bad file from their site. I want EA to appreciate you like I do. And I don’t think that is too much to ask. Folks have been screaming for some sort of security like this for a long long time (well before modding). What a nice carrot to encourage folks to give it a try.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
And yet, gas stations x out all but the last few numbers on your receipt. There is no way for an employee to see what your number is unless you hand them your card and they make some effort to note your number (writing it down or otherwise remember it). Otherwise, your credit/debit card number would have to be gotten through a hack.
But I guess the business world is just paranoid that way.
** PNN News Flash ** (Paranoia News Network)
Many gas stations offer full service where you hand the employee your card , HE swipes it in the machine and holds it till the pumping is done.
In NJ - where I am from - You cannot pump your own gas , its illegal . Its common place for the card to sit in the pumpers pocket or worse yet sticking out of the machine. The good stations hand it right back . WaWa - If you ever come to Jersey buy from WaWa. Its their policy to give the card back immediately after the swipe. If the place looks like a dump and keep on going.
Although this thread has slightly gone off on a tangent (not saying it's off topic) there are some good points raised. Namely,
The only thing people should "need to download" is the updates, not third party programs/mods.
I love pincos and lucitus's UIs i'd just rather have one as standard and not have to download it.
The only thing people should "need to download" is the updates, not third party programs/mods.
I love pincos and lucitus's UIs i'd just rather have one as standard and not have to download it.
Ehm, they call it skimming. It can happen anywhere where you swipe your card. Can't live like that though, Trebr. I do agree with an EA sponsored download and upload exchange. That would be nice. Also from a recognition for the hard work sort of perspective.
Just keep your card in sight at all times even if another person is holding it. In order to skim it, they need to pass it through something. And if they are passing it through more than one thing, they are probably skimming it (althought they'll probably try to do it subtlely which is why you need to watch it at all times). Again, like on the internet, it's a matter of being careful.
I agree with this point of view.
Games should be played as they are and the way the developers and the programmers coded them, period.
There should be no using of anything external from third party utilities to UIs to whatever and players should never feel that in order to enhance their game play they should use anything other than the game client.
I just do not think it as right nor correct to have players in any way feel that they have to go to some web site other than original game web site and feel that they have to use anything other than the game client to enhance their game play.
There should be only and solely the game client whether a good or bad one. That's it.
I often hear talks about competition in online games. Well, using anything other than the sole game client messes up the competition, IMHO, and puts players on a different level which makes the competition all messed up.
The only fair way IF we want to talk about competition in online multiplayer games is STRICTLY limiting the game play to the sole client usage. PERIOD.
At least, that is how I see it.
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Games should be played as they are and the way the developers and the programmers coded them, period.
Then I hope you do NOT use anything other than UO, a basic mouse and basic keyboard. No UOA, no UOAM/Cartographer, etc.
As for the rest, reality disagrees with you on MANY levels, most of which are only tangentially involved in the game itself.
Unless you want to find a way to FORCE people to use the exact same computers with the exact same specs on the exact same network, your ideal is impossible LONG before you get to the client argument.
Games should be played as they are and the way the developers and the programmers coded them, period.
Then I hope you do NOT use anything other than UO, a basic mouse and basic keyboard. No UOA, no UOAM/Cartographer, etc.
As for the rest, reality disagrees with you on MANY levels, most of which are only tangentially involved in the game itself.
Unless you want to find a way to FORCE people to use the exact same computers with the exact same specs on the exact same network, your ideal is impossible LONG before you get to the client argument.
*coughs*
*gigles*
Careful Dermott, insightful comments like this are frowned on. rolleyes:
Well yeah, that would be great if all these features were incorporated into the client, as a new player, if you were told u need to download third party programs for uo and you did a search on google, uoassist and uocartog would prob not even be at the top of the list.
Clearly EA wanted us to code our own UIs as they added that option into the EC, So your point is wrong.
Couldn't disagree more with the whole post. More because I have played Second Life, where they open sourced the client and let everyone go wild making their own viewers. If they are good and stick to a code of conduct they get made official. Less than half the residents use the main client. All of the other clients are tweaked certain ways, from full GUI overhauls, to stripping things out to make it fast, to adding incredible photography options, from focusing to new skys backdrops.
I wish all games had open source clients, but understandably thats not possible because every game handles data differently, and unless originally designed with an open source client in mind, yeah... Not always going to be possible.
Well for example I think part of the original target queue list mod or the Lucis mod (I forget, I mix and match the parts I like) checks the version it was designed under versus the current client version, and if they conflict, the mod has a pop that tells you your mod could be out of date. Basically, it's annoying to me. It's why I stopped using AIM and ICQ and use Trillian instead (Trillian hardly ever updates, which is a good thing). Sometimes you don't want to upgrade to "the next best thing" ;P especially since sometimes there won't be any updates, in the case of a MOD written by some random guy working on his own time
.Just for those curious, Pinco's UI mod doesn't have any checks or links or any crap, I'm just talking about some modders specifically. And no offense to them, just that I delete that code when I find it, lol.
To get back to topic, for example, in one EC mod that I recently looked at, there is an option to make the trees in the game lose their foliage, even in trammel. I have no idea what effect this has on game performance, if it improves it or if it doesn't, but it does seems like an option that is approaching third party tendencies. I mean, in UO you can turn into other forms while dead and do things you shouldn't be able to do while dead, and PvPers have used that for years, so it's not like there aren't problems already with 2D and UOA. Still, I am sort of curious on why someone added the ability to remove tree foliage. It's not quite tree stump, I guess, but I can see why the OP would want to discuss some of the choices EC modders are making. I mean it's one thing to set your Christmas tree to on or off, but the whole game? I don't know ...
No I don't think all that stuff should be part of the actual client.
First off..... the DEV's seem to hardly have time to even tell us what they are doing and when they do they can't even use proper english or punctuation. Do you REALLY want them doing all this other stuff too? How many more things will they break while trying?
The whole idea behind the UI is so that folk can have the game look how THEY want. Isn't that the idea? Adding all the other neat stuff to it is just icing.
And furthermore...... LIKE Heck I want anything other than basics done with the CC. I'm sorry but it's time folk give up the seriously outdated client and move on...... so we can ALL move on. Having the DEV's waste countless hours making things for 2 clients is quite honestly STUPID. Should have been dropped at least 8 years ago. I think had the DEV's who put out 3rd dawn had the guts to pull 2d back then whether folk cared for the 3d client or not we'd be playing a true 3d client by now. But since that never happened and no DEV team since has had the guts to force folk to change I'm doubting it ever will.
Pinco has made the EC work for me.... though of late I'm getting fed up with the severe lag and constant crashing.
And as for all the hype about getting a virus... Yes it could happen.... Yes you could dl a keylogger.... but first off accounts aren't worth near what they used to be anymore ..... and secondly I could get hit by a bus tomorrow too but that don't stop me from crossing the street to get to the other side.
First off..... the DEV's seem to hardly have time to even tell us what they are doing and when they do they can't even use proper english or punctuation. Do you REALLY want them doing all this other stuff too? How many more things will they break while trying?
The whole idea behind the UI is so that folk can have the game look how THEY want. Isn't that the idea? Adding all the other neat stuff to it is just icing.
And furthermore...... LIKE Heck I want anything other than basics done with the CC. I'm sorry but it's time folk give up the seriously outdated client and move on...... so we can ALL move on. Having the DEV's waste countless hours making things for 2 clients is quite honestly STUPID. Should have been dropped at least 8 years ago. I think had the DEV's who put out 3rd dawn had the guts to pull 2d back then whether folk cared for the 3d client or not we'd be playing a true 3d client by now. But since that never happened and no DEV team since has had the guts to force folk to change I'm doubting it ever will.
Pinco has made the EC work for me.... though of late I'm getting fed up with the severe lag and constant crashing.
And as for all the hype about getting a virus... Yes it could happen.... Yes you could dl a keylogger.... but first off accounts aren't worth near what they used to be anymore ..... and secondly I could get hit by a bus tomorrow too but that don't stop me from crossing the street to get to the other side.
The missus still can't stand the EC and refuses to use it. If they do away with the CC she'd stop playing. And there goes my own motivation to play as well. Unless there's a toggle in the EC to switch to legacy graphics.
As to the 3rd dawn client, certain features were good, but overall, it was terrible.
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Aside from the terrain and models, the EC uses legacy graphics, granted they are all pixellated and distorted due to low resolution and improper scaling, but they are the legacy graphics.
The upgraded graphics were stripped, the terrain was "dumbed down", and the model resolution was dropped significantly from what it used to be.
Aside from the terrain and models, the EC uses legacy graphics, granted they are all pixellated and distorted due to low resolution and improper scaling, but they are the legacy graphics.
The upgraded graphics were stripped, the terrain was "dumbed down", and the model resolution was dropped significantly from what it used to be.
Just to clarify, I am referring to the models. From an older post when I can run all 3 clients CC/KR/EC -
http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-enhanced-client-beta-discussion/148721-creature-art.html#post1323220
Robe also looks weird when flared at the bottom like that. And when you are mounted, it looks like you are wearing bell bottom pants...
Paperdoll is another issue.
http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-enhanced-client-beta-discussion/148721-creature-art.html#post1323220
Robe also looks weird when flared at the bottom like that. And when you are mounted, it looks like you are wearing bell bottom pants...
Paperdoll is another issue.
Must be a matter of taste but I find the cc paperdoll the ugliest part and that stupid pose there doing.
I would just like to see classic client go now. UO will never be able to move forward and attract new players with the CC still taking time and resources.
Those comparative pictures are the best I've seen for displaying the problem I have with it. Look how clear the 2D ground is, and then how blurred the EC is? It's like a short sighted person going around without their glasses on - and it has the same effect. It gives me, and lots of other people, a headache.
It's not just that they don't want to play it, it's that they can't!
It's not just that they don't want to play it, it's that they can't!
Do you spend much time in game examining the pores of the tiles on the floor? I can't say honestly that I have spent any amount of time in game looking at terrain. My concentration is usually fixed on characters or monsters or dynamic objects. Much of the time you are moving so the terrain is moving by fast enough that examining it will result in a headache anyway.
Most of the people I had try the EC told me it gave them a headache at first, but you get used to it in about a day. Then they love the macros and other handy features like zoom, and the ability to loot monsters without dragging anything or having to move things aside to see what might be hiding under them. You can seriously see anything thats worth looting in a split second, and loot it with a right click, even stackables like gold. You can loot a stack of 40 bodies piled one on top of the other in a vertical stack in about 30 seconds. Its even possible to find time to loot in champ spawns. I won't say that everyone I told to give the EC a try and showed them how to use it made the switch, but most did, even hard core CC users. They complain a lot in the transition but its only because they need to take time to understand the features and organize their screens the way they like them. Then it feels like home and they like it.
One rather important thing to mention in all fairness is that those who play pure mages have a hard time with the targeting feature, and have to turn it off to feel comfortable playing in the EC, unless they really are willing to stink for a while while they really get the hang of it.
Also important to note that for some reason the EC plays choppy as hell for the first day or two you play it and then it inexplicably smooths out nicely.
Food for thought.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
You would have absolutely hated the old days when you had to Item ID things.Do you spend much time in game examining the pores of the tiles on the floor? I can't say honestly that I have spent any amount of time in game looking at terrain. My concentration is usually fixed on characters or monsters or dynamic objects. Much of the time you are moving so the terrain is moving by fast enough that examining it will result in a headache anyway.
Most of the people I had try the EC told me it gave them a headache at first, but you get used to it in about a day. Then they love the macros and other handy features like zoom, and the ability to loot monsters without dragging anything or having to move things aside to see what might be hiding under them. You can seriously see anything thats worth looting in a split second, and loot it with a right click, even stackables like gold. You can loot a stack of 40 bodies piled one on top of the other in a vertical stack in about 30 seconds. Its even possible to find time to loot in champ spawns. I won't say that everyone I told to give the EC a try and showed them how to use it made the switch, but most did, even hard core CC users. They complain a lot in the transition but its only because they need to take time to understand the features and organize their screens the way they like them. Then it feels like home and they like it.
One rather important thing to mention in all fairness is that those who play pure mages have a hard time with the targeting feature, and have to turn it off to feel comfortable playing in the EC, unless they really are willing to stink for a while while they really get the hang of it.
Also important to note that for some reason the EC plays choppy as hell for the first day or two you play it and then it inexplicably smooths out nicely.
Food for thought.
Me, on the other hand, I long for them.
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Back in the days when you had to use Item ID or a wave/staff, no monster dropped 20 random magic items and the top end ones only dropped 5 or 6 tops. The only places to get massive numbers of items were in treasure/SOS chests and at that point you'd simply target the type of item, stock up then take it home to do at your leisure (or use the chests/hold on a boat).
Also consider that the number of possiblemods (and ranges of said mods) were MUCH more limited at the time making IDing faster then than reading through all of the properties now.
Luckily we've even sped that up in the EC with the Item Properties Evaluator/highlight and Imbuing evaluator mods.
Back in the days when you had to use Item ID or a wave/staff, no monster dropped 20 random magic items and the top end ones only dropped 5 or 6 tops. The only places to get massive numbers of items were in treasure/SOS chests and at that point you'd simply target the type of item, stock up then take it home to do at your leisure (or use the chests/hold on a boat).
Also consider that the number of possiblemods (and ranges of said mods) were MUCH more limited at the time making IDing faster then than reading through all of the properties now.
Luckily we've even sped that up in the EC with the Item Properties Evaluator/highlight and Imbuing evaluator mods.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Ooooo numbers!
Well, i was here for beta and played until 2001ish. I never bothered with the item ID. In those days, I played a mage and pretty much gm armor was about as good as it got, and no slayer books. Simpler days to be sure. But with everyone having all this great stuff, I do remember the only time anyone would actually take it out and wear it was at the Brit graveyard for the nightly server revert. Haha!
Sometimes I miss the old days, but overall I like that the game has evolved.
This is perfect, thank you.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
The game did need to evolve, no doubt. And "items" are a good thing. My feeling is that it could have been a lot better than this "gamey" numbers game.
I wanted UO to add items with new magics or just neat things. Keep the simpler system that worked so well. Add things like:
-Crystal Balls of Scrying that gave mages a scouting ability (add stealth too, btw)
-Statuetttes that acted like summoned Pets, like D+D's Golden Lions Statues
-Dancing Swords that fight on their own
etc., things that aren't very unbalancing, just fun or cool things that at most give a small advantage.
Basically, I wanted them to advance the UO that was, not change it.-Statuetttes that acted like summoned Pets, like D+D's Golden Lions Statues
-Dancing Swords that fight on their own
etc., things that aren't very unbalancing, just fun or cool things that at most give a small advantage.
Trebr,
Certain things needed to change, and change drastically. Granted, item ID wasn't really one of them, as it did add a layer of dependency on crafter types that is virtually gone now...
However, UO needed to evolve the way it dealt with armor and weapons. We had what, four weapons types and four armor types? (magical types, not material/style types)
At some point everyone was going to be decked out in their platemail of invulnerability and their eminently accurate viking sword of vanquishing. Many people literally had chests full of it.
Now, to be honest, AoS did drop on us without any warning like a ton of very stinky manure... We were forced into am item based system that was so poorly documented that it took many people months to catch on fully. However, that was eight years ago now, and people seriously need to get over it and catch up to reality.
We have an item based game now as far as equipment goes. Eight years. We know how to use it, we know how to abuse it. Imbuing has made it infinitely easier to make a suit that 'pwns.'
The EC, with the proper UI, gives us the ability to see and do things that UOA can't even do. We can play at a modern resolution, create complex macros, and even incorporate things we would normally have to run to the Stratics database for.
Sure, the graphics look like poop... But, honestly, that’s not the EC's fault. Its the fact that people want to hold on to sprites made in 1996, designed for monitors at 800x600 in stunning 16bit SVGA! Oooo!
Do you honestly like playing in a client window that’s the size of a paperback book? Sure, the graphics look "crisp" (*tries not to laugh hysterically*) there, but should you try to blow them up so you can actually see something they will look like poop. 15yo poop at that.
The EC does give a better game experience overall, without the need for 3rd party programs. Yes, there are UI enhancements built by players. SO WHAT. Nearly every modern MMO has this as a standard feature.
UO, if it is to survive - and acquire new subscribers - HAS TO ATTEMPT TO APPEAL TO THE MODERN GAMER! They want to be able to look at the UI and be able to grasp the basics of how it functions. Sorry to say, but EQ and now WoW has set that standard. *You* may not like it, but, sorry, UO needs to appeal to a wider audience if you have any desire to continue playing.
Try the current EC. Download Pinco's UI (yes, its safe. Lots of people YOU know are using it) and play it for a month. Create macros. Run around and PvM. Come to an EM event (8pm CST every Tuesday at the west counselor's hall in Britain). Actually play the client for a decent period of time before you pointlessly badmouth it into the ground.
Certain things needed to change, and change drastically. Granted, item ID wasn't really one of them, as it did add a layer of dependency on crafter types that is virtually gone now...
However, UO needed to evolve the way it dealt with armor and weapons. We had what, four weapons types and four armor types? (magical types, not material/style types)
At some point everyone was going to be decked out in their platemail of invulnerability and their eminently accurate viking sword of vanquishing. Many people literally had chests full of it.
Now, to be honest, AoS did drop on us without any warning like a ton of very stinky manure... We were forced into am item based system that was so poorly documented that it took many people months to catch on fully. However, that was eight years ago now, and people seriously need to get over it and catch up to reality.
We have an item based game now as far as equipment goes. Eight years. We know how to use it, we know how to abuse it. Imbuing has made it infinitely easier to make a suit that 'pwns.'
The EC, with the proper UI, gives us the ability to see and do things that UOA can't even do. We can play at a modern resolution, create complex macros, and even incorporate things we would normally have to run to the Stratics database for.
Sure, the graphics look like poop... But, honestly, that’s not the EC's fault. Its the fact that people want to hold on to sprites made in 1996, designed for monitors at 800x600 in stunning 16bit SVGA! Oooo!
Do you honestly like playing in a client window that’s the size of a paperback book? Sure, the graphics look "crisp" (*tries not to laugh hysterically*) there, but should you try to blow them up so you can actually see something they will look like poop. 15yo poop at that.
The EC does give a better game experience overall, without the need for 3rd party programs. Yes, there are UI enhancements built by players. SO WHAT. Nearly every modern MMO has this as a standard feature.
UO, if it is to survive - and acquire new subscribers - HAS TO ATTEMPT TO APPEAL TO THE MODERN GAMER! They want to be able to look at the UI and be able to grasp the basics of how it functions. Sorry to say, but EQ and now WoW has set that standard. *You* may not like it, but, sorry, UO needs to appeal to a wider audience if you have any desire to continue playing.
Try the current EC. Download Pinco's UI (yes, its safe. Lots of people YOU know are using it) and play it for a month. Create macros. Run around and PvM. Come to an EM event (8pm CST every Tuesday at the west counselor's hall in Britain). Actually play the client for a decent period of time before you pointlessly badmouth it into the ground.
Well to be realistic, nobody was decked out in it, it pretty much resided in chests at that time, except for a special half hour daily where people let it all hang out.
Well said, let's remember the good old days like they were and not overglamorize them. And above all, it's over and done with, so lets not waste time trying to get back there. Even if they opened a classic rules shard, 98.9 percent of the people would stay right where they are, because they LIKE imbuing, and they LIKE the conveniences afforded them, and most don't care how misguided some of these conveniences are.
I actually LIKE crafting armor now. No runics, exactly what I want, and nothing I don't.
Quite honestly, I find new goodies in Pinco's UI every once in a while that make things soooo much easier, like auto-ignore corpses. Now I can kill monsters on top of a semi-looted stack of corpses and not see the tags of the ones I already looted. Thanks Pinco!
I say throw those sprites into paintings that can be used to decorate the realistically textured, fully rendered houses in a full 3d client that brings us in one fel swoop to current graphic standards of today.
They will say yes to that, you know they will. Why even ask?
Yes, what I really want to say is that anyone who plays the classic client with UO assist, and then complains about how the EC is unfair because they need to pay for an add-on to make their client playable... Just get the EC, and roll with it. You will get used to it, and when you have it set the way you like it you will never understand why it took you so long.
That's just it, the EC and UI customization was 1/4th what they needed at a bare minimum to make this game appeal to the modern gamer. As well as I like it, it didn't address the primary concern, the graphics. They took the same engine, with the same graphics, the same resolution (made slightly larger, and as a side effect, blurrier), slapped a little artwork onto some of the tiles, and let it fly.
Thats why nobody likes it, because they downloaded it, logged in, realized they lost a lot of their macros, didn't try to figure out how to remake them, and said "F this" and logged back onto their CC. I'd put money on it that most of those that are currently badmouthing even got past "GO" and made it to a spawn or dungeon. And of course EA didn't provide a set of directions, or a walkthrough or anything, they were expecting people that have been playing the same game with the same way of doing things for 13 years would have the willpower to find out how to do things themselves, the old fashioned way, by sifting through the menus, and trying things out. LOL
Really?!
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Martyna, I'm sorry, but I'm tired of arguing this. Look what's happened to UO.
- Trades have all but died among the general player base.
- The Anti-Virtue dungeons are useless to all but those training up skills.
- The game is no longer about the story, the world. Now it's all about ever increasing itemization.
- The numbers game rules the day.
- You can't have your favorite set of gear, you have to have sets tailored to specific MOBs and places.
- On and on....
The Dev, Mythic, EA, whoever....they either get it or they don't. Whatever I say isn't going to matter. At this point, I'll just wait for the video to see what they're going to do.
I stopped reading here.... This is just outright ignorant, and I'm dismissing anything else you say... Don't throw around information you have no foundation for... There are hoards of free-to-play servers out there that put anywhere from 100 to 1000+ concurrent users on their servers daily with Classic or Old-Era rule sets. Most of these people learned about Ultima Online by being paying subscribers. To dismiss the fact that they might consider coming back is just... well, you get the point... Not to mention... Like the type of people that make up the Classic Shard supporters or not, a lot of them are the grandaddys and mommas of this bloody game you all love today. If they were NOT here, loving UO in 97-2000, there would be no trammie-item-grabbie game for us all to play now. We(everyone) should respect their opinions as our kin.
Unless they closed those free shards I wonder why they would come back to a classic shard and pay for it.
Sorry, I knew that by quantifying at all, someone would turn up to flame me for it. I should have said:I stopped reading here.... This is just outright ignorant, and I'm dismissing anything else you say... Don't throw around information you have no foundation for... There are hoards of free-to-play servers out there that put anywhere from 100 to 1000+ concurrent users on their servers daily with Classic or Old-Era rule sets. Most of these people learned about Ultima Online by being paying subscribers. To dismiss the fact that they might consider coming back is just... well, you get the point... Not to mention... Like the type of people that make up the Classic Shard supporters or not, a lot of them are the grandaddys and mommas of this bloody game you all love today. If they were NOT here, loving UO in 97-2000, there would be no trammie-item-grabbie game for us all to play now. We(everyone) should respect their opinions as our kin.
"In all likelihood, although I can't back anything up with numbers, because that would involve interviewing all players, past and present, which would be ridiculous and downright impossible, the vast majority of people, in my humble opinion, as unbased in fact as it may be, even if they opened a classic rules shard, the vast majority (again, in my misguided opinion to which I am entitled) of the people would stay right where they are, because they LIKE imbuing, and they LIKE the conveniences afforded them, and most don't care how misguided some of these conveniences are."
I redact my previous comment, and wish to replace it with this one, which has been edited for easier public consumption.
I fully respect my kin, as I was around enjoying the game in the period of time to which you were referring. But, time marches on. I want the game to be around for a long time, and the only thing I can see that could happen to facilitate that, is to stop investing so damned much time coddling those who want to turn back the clock to the glory days and get some new players in here. Stop trying to fix the classic client, and make it play better, because new players will not stay long enough to appreciate the depth of the game. They need to trash the classic AND the ennhanced clients, or relegate them to a classic shard to coddle us old timers who are stuck in the glory days in our minds, and replace the 1990s graphics (which surely look like Pong or Centipede to modern gamers) with a modern game engine with the same game feel and perspective, but devastatingly good graphics. Then we could rest assured that the game could continue, and perhaps fascinate a new generation.
And you do realize, that a classic shard would mean no High Seas, none of the new dungeons or content, no anything. And if you are a purist, no UO Assist, because that was surely not the designer's intent. Surely Richard Garriot would NOT approve... Oh sorry, surely in my humble opinion, Richard Garriot would NOT approve.
Trebr,
None of those things relate to the client. At. All.
I still get asked to make things for people, so I know that trading isn’t completely dead. I do admit that the introduction of such a compressed city and housing area as Luna was a serious mistake. That kind of condensed shopping area has driven the economy into the ground, but its only one of the reasons.
The antivirtue dungeons have been useless for years. Adding in the artifacts was a rather pathetic way to draw people back. However, the phantom ‘new player’ do need someplace to go…
UO was never about the story. Ever. It was about a social experiment to see if a MMORPG was even feasible. The story came from the players, what OSI/EARS/Mythic et al gave us was a just a backdrop. The Seers and the EMs are the only ones providing shard-based stories for people to truly interact with. Sadly, you’ve chosen to completely ignore the EM storyline on GL, even though it’s the most complex and well thought out WEEKLY plotline on the 27 shards. So the story is there, you’ve just chosen to ignore it.
“The numbers game rules the day” Taken literally, that’s just hilarious. Of course it’s a numbers game, it always has been. Granted, the math for the player is a bit more complex now, but still. Somebody once asked me why I spend so much time “sitting at my computer doing things to change values on a far away server.” It’s been eight years since AoS. Adapt or quit.
Multiple sets? Uhm.. no… It makes perfect sense to have a PvM set and a PvP set to better exploit the various caps and play style differences… But a different set for different mobs? Only if you’re neurotic enough to think you need that… An all 70’s suit tailored to maximize your skills/regens is all you need. I wear the same suit all the time.
I guess this is where I once again suggest you actually play with the rest of the community. Talk to people, see how they deal with modern UO. Sitting there stewing about it while you pine for a past they will never return is just depressing
None of those things relate to the client. At. All.
I still get asked to make things for people, so I know that trading isn’t completely dead. I do admit that the introduction of such a compressed city and housing area as Luna was a serious mistake. That kind of condensed shopping area has driven the economy into the ground, but its only one of the reasons.
The antivirtue dungeons have been useless for years. Adding in the artifacts was a rather pathetic way to draw people back. However, the phantom ‘new player’ do need someplace to go…
UO was never about the story. Ever. It was about a social experiment to see if a MMORPG was even feasible. The story came from the players, what OSI/EARS/Mythic et al gave us was a just a backdrop. The Seers and the EMs are the only ones providing shard-based stories for people to truly interact with. Sadly, you’ve chosen to completely ignore the EM storyline on GL, even though it’s the most complex and well thought out WEEKLY plotline on the 27 shards. So the story is there, you’ve just chosen to ignore it.
“The numbers game rules the day” Taken literally, that’s just hilarious. Of course it’s a numbers game, it always has been. Granted, the math for the player is a bit more complex now, but still. Somebody once asked me why I spend so much time “sitting at my computer doing things to change values on a far away server.” It’s been eight years since AoS. Adapt or quit.
Multiple sets? Uhm.. no… It makes perfect sense to have a PvM set and a PvP set to better exploit the various caps and play style differences… But a different set for different mobs? Only if you’re neurotic enough to think you need that… An all 70’s suit tailored to maximize your skills/regens is all you need. I wear the same suit all the time.
I guess this is where I once again suggest you actually play with the rest of the community. Talk to people, see how they deal with modern UO. Sitting there stewing about it while you pine for a past they will never return is just depressing
They. Won't.
This is what’s called a straw man argument. No basis in factual reality, just 'passionate' opinion presented as fact. It's the staple of the Classic Shard propaganda machine.
Make up ridiculous claims, back it up with a lot of bluster and hot air, then attack anyone who can actually back up what they say. Now, granted, Roland did make up his 98.9% number, however, all one has to do is talk to people on the shards and look at how they are playing.
If people didn't like imbuing, insurance, AoS, Trammel, etc with such passion then they wouldn't be playing. Sub numbers are down, but directly correlating them to any of those "reasons" is impossible... Even with that bogus MMO subscription chart they keep pulling out of their butts.
People who play on the free shards are most likely happy where they are and happy with the free shard’s lack of impact on their wallet. They won’t suddenly abandon these shards in droves and run to pay EA a monthly sub just so they can play an ‘official classic shard.’ Many, many games have free shards lurking on the interwebs. Those that play there do so because it’s FREE
...
Trades have all but died among the general player base.
Global chat would prove otherwise. While it doesn't COMPLETELY rebalance the playing field away from Luna, it is at least a good start thanks to KR/EC.
· The Anti-Virtue dungeons are useless to all but those training up skills
They've been useless ever since Third Dawn came out (and really even more so since Paragons were introduced and later AOS and Doom) because they don't pass the "where is the most efficient place to farm" test. But that's an issue of CONTENT, not client. Noone wants to farm for 120 gold and a couple of Intensity: 100 or less items without anything extra anymore. When's the last time people went to Titan Valley in T2A? I remember when it was The Place™... not anymore.
· The game is no longer about the story, the world. Now it's all about ever increasing itemization.
News flash, the game has been more about a running storyline over the last 5 years than at any other time in UO history. Aside from a few story arc events (Invasion of Trinsic being one of the most remembered) in the old days, after the Seers were lost and before Draconi started the Inu arc, the "story" of the game, if present at all, was almost always external to the game and then only to introduce new areas or content.
You can't have your favorite set of gear, you have to have sets tailored to specific MOBs and places.
Let's see... my main combat character uses the same set of armor, the only changes made are the weapon and/or talisman and even then only to TRULY maximize the abilities. The main suit is built to maximize resists, regens, HCI/DCI, and stats, only the weapon and talisman (which hold slayer properties) are changed as needed and even then, it's between two or three options, not a set for every different mob/area.
Trades have all but died among the general player base.
Global chat would prove otherwise. While it doesn't COMPLETELY rebalance the playing field away from Luna, it is at least a good start thanks to KR/EC.
· The Anti-Virtue dungeons are useless to all but those training up skills
They've been useless ever since Third Dawn came out (and really even more so since Paragons were introduced and later AOS and Doom) because they don't pass the "where is the most efficient place to farm" test. But that's an issue of CONTENT, not client. Noone wants to farm for 120 gold and a couple of Intensity: 100 or less items without anything extra anymore. When's the last time people went to Titan Valley in T2A? I remember when it was The Place™... not anymore.
· The game is no longer about the story, the world. Now it's all about ever increasing itemization.
News flash, the game has been more about a running storyline over the last 5 years than at any other time in UO history. Aside from a few story arc events (Invasion of Trinsic being one of the most remembered) in the old days, after the Seers were lost and before Draconi started the Inu arc, the "story" of the game, if present at all, was almost always external to the game and then only to introduce new areas or content.
You can't have your favorite set of gear, you have to have sets tailored to specific MOBs and places.
Let's see... my main combat character uses the same set of armor, the only changes made are the weapon and/or talisman and even then only to TRULY maximize the abilities. The main suit is built to maximize resists, regens, HCI/DCI, and stats, only the weapon and talisman (which hold slayer properties) are changed as needed and even then, it's between two or three options, not a set for every different mob/area.