The new Alchemy changes to potion weight

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

What the hell is going on?
I rarely rant about the changes that go on in this game. I adapt to the changes they dish out. tactics for specials and what not.

But whatever mission they have to remove alchemists from the game makes little to no sense to me. I mean whats the problem with having alchemy in UO?

So pretty simply, people complained about people using pots all the damn time in pvp. That has to be where the majority of the inspiration for these changes comes from. But have they taken into account that this is still a pretty skill based game? and that these people almost never have the alchemy skill who are using these potions?

Lets go over the recent changes to Alchemy, the skill in Ultima Online.

Added jewels that will intensify potions by 50% regardless of skill
Please note that the skill only intensifies by 30%....and UO's not that item based..

Added a potion that can delete over 100 potion from a players backpack in an instant every 50 seconds per person.

Now lets make these alchemy changes real awesome and double the weight of potions. That way they start off with less and you can diminish a players inventory even faster!

That way the 100 skill they have is completely worthless.

So end the end,
Ultima Online has made it so players with no skill can have a bigger alchy bonus than skilled players,
then when we realized these people were using potions all the time:
we made it so that players would carry less potions
and made it so players with no alchemy skill could shatter hundreds of potions in a players backpack in seconds.

SKILL!
MAKE IT RELEVANT IN UO!
Sheesh.
Not a single thing done to alchemy has taken the skill in to account.
Is it really that hard to not take it into account?
A skilled alchemist should be able to make lighter potions that have the same effect. and a skilled alchemist potions should help them more than a damn ring on their finger.
The weight system in UO alone has become just a simple, cheap, and meaningless way to balance the game.
one potion alone should not weight 28 pounds.
Alright, rants over. Long live UO and the combat alchemist.

 

[Nastia Cross]

Added a potion that can delete over 100 potion from a players backpack in an instant every 50 seconds per person.

Did this really happen?

 

[I Play UO]

But whatever mission they have to remove alchemists from the game makes little to no sense to me. I mean whats the problem with having alchemy in UO?

I believe it was an extremely uneducated attempt at reducing the amount of potions used in PvP. The only thing it has accomplished is you can no longer loot your enemies because you're immediately overweight. Ironically, (I hope the irony police doesn't arrest me for this) it actually makes potions more likely to be used since they just have to loot their body.

 

[Babble]

I feel some unhappiness in you about the changes.
Maybe the devs will reconsider after you explained your troubles of inbalance to them


Though i guess you will just have to live with it

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

Added a potion that can delete over 100 potion from a players backpack in an instant every 50 seconds per person.

Did this really happen?

Yes its called a shatter potions, I have about 10 thousand.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

I believe it was an extremely uneducated attempt at reducing the amount of potions used in PvP. The only thing it has accomplished is you can no longer loot your enemies because you're immediately overweight. Ironically, (I hope the irony police doesn't arrest me for this) it actually makes potions more likely to be used since they just have to loot their body.

Oh it definitely was. But why? Why not reduce the amount of swords used in pvp? How was the logical step in fixing this not based about the skill itself? If its clear that alchemy has relevance in combat, and pvpers have been balancing around that since launch. Don't just destroy it completely.

 

[[JD]]

i agree, if you put the skill on your template you should receive a heck of a lot of bonus over someone who put it on their jewels. i'd love to put something different on a template. but the fact is it just doesn't stand up as well to other things for the same amount of points invested. i would rather have healing.. for example

 

[puni666]

I've been a firm believer in needing Item I.D. in pot using pvp situations. Take a dexer for example... you're swinging a weapon maintaining your vision on your target(s). And at the same time you're always grabbing a cure pot out of your backpack every time out of the 60+ that are in your backpack? That takes skill! Item I.D. skill!

 

[Chardonnay]

I've been a firm believer in needing Item I.D. in pot using pvp situations. Take a dexer for example... you're swinging a weapon maintaining your vision on your target(s). And at the same time you're always grabbing a cure pot out of your backpack every time out of the 60+ that are in your backpack? That takes skill! Item I.D. skill!

YA! YOUR RIGHT AND YOU NEED FOCUS TOO BECAUSE BOTH OF THOSE ACTIONS REQUIRE YOU TO DO IT AT THE SAME TIME TOO!





































































FAIL!

 

[N49ATV]

A better solution would have been to make them non-stackable. I have played places where its like that. It limits your pots on the field.

 

[WildWobble]

seriously dumb idea to up thier weight they should have reduced bottles to 10=1 stone and a full potion = .2 stone that would have seemed a bit more realistic.


(The stone is a unit of measure, abbreviation st which, was defined in British legislation as being a weight or mass equal to 14 avoirdupois pounds (about 6.35 kilograms).)

i mean 2 stone potions 12.70 kg OMFG thats one big gulp of a potion!!

 

[old gypsy]

Obviously, I'm slow. But I wondered why I can no longer carry as many potions as before. And would this also explain why I couldn't fill a potion keg after the publish (as I once did)? I started out as usual with an empty keg, my regs, and one empty bottle. I filled the bottle, poured it into the keg and started the rinse-repeat cycle, but as soon as a potion went into the keg, the potion bottle dropped to the floor instead of inside my pack.... I haven't repeated the experiment after trying it several times with the same result. Now I just lug those suddenly very heavy potion bottles up the stairs.... *stops, out of breath*

 

[Nyses]

I've been a firm believer in needing Item I.D. in pot using pvp situations. Take a dexer for example... you're swinging a weapon maintaining your vision on your target(s). And at the same time you're always grabbing a cure pot out of your backpack every time out of the 60+ that are in your backpack? That takes skill! Item I.D. skill!

YA! YOUR RIGHT AND YOU NEED FOCUS TOO BECAUSE BOTH OF THOSE ACTIONS REQUIRE YOU TO DO IT AT THE SAME TIME TOO!

FAIL!

Actually puni's idea has more merit than the current solution, and he at least is brainstorming, unlike your "useful suggestion" Chardonnay.

 

[Chardonnay]

Actually puni's idea has more merit than the current solution, and he at least is brainstorming, unlike your "useful suggestion" Chardonnay.

I got a idea how about we get back to a skill game instead of a item game meaning you want to use pots have the alchemy skill, period...oh wait that's a horrible idea because that would actually involve skill in-game...

 

[WarUltima]

I got a idea how about we get back to a skill game instead of a item game meaning you want to use pots have the alchemy skill, period...oh wait that's a horrible idea because that would actually involve skill in-game...

And cooking skill if you are going to use enchanted apple and grape of wrath. And all food in game, you need to learn how to eat so you need cooking skill so you know how to it something with the most optimized condition.

Introduce new skill "Gardening" and make it a required skill if you want to eat petals, or imbue something that takes seeds of renewal.

Need blacksmith skill if you are going to use any metal armor and weapons.

Need Carpentry if you are going to use anything wood or swing a bokuto.

Need Blacksmith AND mining if you are wearing armor/weapon enhanced by xxx ingot.

Need magery to cast spell, and need Gardening to have knowledge in using regents and be benefited by LRC.

Introduce new skill "Iron Will" you need a strong mental strength to maintain yourself in ghost form and preserve your existence in the world of the livings. Without GM Iron Will skill your character is permanently deleted with in 10 second in ghost form (add 10 second for every 10 points skill spent in Iron Will up tp 100 seconds.) To make dedicated healers more viable as a viable "class".

Riding skill to use any mount.

Introduce spirit of [animal form] skill if you are going to use any transformation/polymorph spell/skill. eg you need Spirit of the Ostard if you want to use ninjitsu's ostard form. it's stupid that a human/elf/gargoyle knows how to control their movement as a different specie without actually spending SKILL to learn them. Like wise, 99 min skill in Spirit of the Wraith, and/or Vampirism skill for wammy/sampires.

Mana/Life/Stam Leech Lore skills are required to do mana/life/stam leech.

Archers/Dexers/Mages need Riding Archery/Melee Wep Skill/Spellcasting to shoot accurately / cast effectively on mount.

Oh and Aspect of GM Calling skill introduced and required when you need to call a Game Master for assistance. Base wait time till GM reply is 600 minutes every 10 skill points in AoGMC reduce the wait time by 30 minutes up to 240 minutes only wait time at 120 skill until GM response. For every 10 points in AoGMC above GM (100) level, you increase a 5% bonus chance for getting any other GM response other than the canned message. At 120 skill you will have a chance of 3% a GM will show up and actually try to help you. Limited to 2 GM Calls once every 24 hours.

Just some short recommendations on how to make UO more skill based. UO rightnow is so stupid so many things just doesnt make sense, CHANGE IT!!!!! So UO is finally truly skill based!

 

[Chardonnay]

And cooking skill if you are going to use enchanted apple and grape of wrath. And all food in game, you need to learn how to eat so you need cooking skill so you know how to it something with the most optimized condition.

Introduce new skill "Gardening" and make it a required skill if you want to eat petals, or imbue something that takes seeds of renewal.

Need blacksmith skill if you are going to use any metal armor and weapons.

Need Carpentry if you are going to use anything wood or swing a bokuto.

Need Blacksmith AND mining if you are wearing armor/weapon enhanced by xxx ingot.

Need magery to cast spell, and need Gardening to have knowledge in using regents and be benefited by LRC.

Introduce new skill "Iron Will" you need a strong mental strength to maintain yourself in ghost form and preserve your existence in the world of the livings. Without GM Iron Will skill your character is permanently deleted with in 10 second in ghost form (add 10 second for every 10 points skill spent in Iron Will up tp 100 seconds.) To make dedicated healers more viable as a viable "class".

Riding skill to use any mount.

Introduce spirit of [animal form] skill if you are going to use any transformation/polymorph spell/skill. eg you need Spirit of the Ostard if you want to use ninjitsu's ostard form. it's stupid that a human/elf/gargoyle knows how to control their movement as a different specie without actually spending SKILL to learn them. Like wise, 99 min skill in Spirit of the Wraith, and/or Vampirism skill for wammy/sampires.

Mana/Life/Stam Leech Lore skills are required to do mana/life/stam leech.

Archers/Dexers/Mages need Riding Archery/Melee Wep Skill/Spellcasting to shoot accurately / cast effectively on mount.

Oh and Aspect of GM Calling skill introduced and required when you need to call a Game Master for assistance. Base wait time till GM reply is 600 minutes every 10 skill points in AoGMC reduce the wait time by 30 minutes up to 240 minutes only wait time at 120 skill until GM response. For every 10 points in AoGMC above GM (100) level, you increase a 5% bonus chance for getting any other GM response other than the canned message. At 120 skill you will have a chance of 3% a GM will show up and actually try to help you. Limited to 2 GM Calls once every 24 hours.

Just some short recommendations on how to make UO more skill based. UO rightnow is so stupid so many things just doesnt make sense, CHANGE IT!!!!! So UO is finally truly skill based!

Are you trying to compare UO to real life??






































































FAIL!

 

[WildWobble]

well now now stop being idiots people! to make potions balanced is the goal and the best way is to return them to normal and just add a timer onto cure pots! since thats the only potion i keep hearing complained about and since its a small part of one skill that cancels 100 points in another skill Poisoning! a timer or a potion exaustion or overconsumption, Make it so you can only drink so much drink 5 of same type and can't drink anymore for 2 min or some such timer. lessen the affect the more you consume them, SOMETHING the way it is now is assanine!

 

[Nyses]

I got a idea how about we get back to a skill game instead of a item game meaning you want to use pots have the alchemy skill, period...oh wait that's a horrible idea because that would actually involve skill in-game...

If we made it so you had to have Alchemy to use Greater potions, sure, but everyone could use lesser and regular.

What I cannot understand is why the hell the devs did not just put the Heal potion timer on Cures?

 

[Logrus]

Alchemy Changes.

When they were unstackable a player was subject to the container item limit of 125.

Enhance Potions property Added.
Alchemists receive up to 30% bonus to enhance potions which does not count in the item cap so an alchemist using enhance potion items will receive a greater benefit than one without alchemy.

Potions went from being non-stackable to stackable.

Potions becoming stackable meant they were now subject to weight limit (Typically around 400 stones, but up to over 500 stones).
So players were now able to cart around more than 4x the number of potions they previously could.

With potion (Not bottle) weignt increased to 2 stones, this limits them to 200 potions.

A shatter potion which is gotten by completing quests (non-player craftable) can reduce the number of potions by a %. So unless you only have 1 potion in your backpack it can never destroy all your potions.

Other than the enhance potions property/effect, potions have remained pretty much unchanged since UO's inception. Unfortunately other changes such as reagent availability, gold availability, stacking etc have made it so that previous safe guarding factors such as expense and item caps are no longer effective in limiting potion use. Add to that insurance, chivalry, LRC and players are no longer spending time or money on restocking equipment and resources and can spend that extra cash to pay for carrying around that many potions.

Pretty much the only way for players to lose potions with any regularity is dying in PvP and having the potions looted. In PvM the looting monsters are rarely the ones that players die to anyway at higher levels.



Potion effectiveness, usage rates, costs remain untouched with an increase to potion weight and provide a much more localized balancing measure.

In the future it would be nice take another look at alchemy and enhanced potions and see how the player community takes more invasive balancing steps. But for the moment at least this measure provides a more palatable solution.

 

[I Play UO]

Pretty much the only way for players to lose potions with any regularity is dying in PvP and having the potions looted. In PvM the looting monsters are rarely the ones that players die to anyway at higher levels.

So then why on earth would you make it harder to loot someone else's pots?

 

[Espilce]

So then why on earth would you make it harder to loot someone else's pots?

It gives the crappy PVP'ers a better chance of keeping or restocking some pots that they just lost. It provides a bit of balance. What do the Uber players need a million potions for?

 

[Logrus]

So then why on earth would you make it harder to loot someone else's pots?

Well if the problem with balancing potions lay in what happened to them after people were already dead then we'd probably be concerned with how difficult they are to loot. (Although since they are still stackable you can still loot more than 2x of what you could previously.)

 

[Nyses]

Potion effectiveness, usage rates, costs remain untouched with an increase to potion weight and provide a much more localized balancing measure.

In the future it would be nice take another look at alchemy and enhanced potions and see how the player community takes more invasive balancing steps. But for the moment at least this measure provides a more palatable solution.

The only real problem with Potions was the unlimited GCure chugging in PvP. which pretty much nullifies the Poisoning skill. You missed "a timer was added to healing pots", which would have been the simplest solution for Cures too.

All this has really changed, is that people leave the field more often to restock if they run low.

 

[I Play UO]

The only real problem with Potions was the unlimited GCure chugging in PvP. which pretty much nullifies the Poisoning skill. You missed "a timer was added to healing pots", which would have been the simplest solution for Cures too.

All this has really changed, is that people leave the field more often to restock if they run low.

Yes, adding a cure pot timer would just make too much sense.

 

[I Play UO]

The only real problem with Potions was the unlimited GCure chugging in PvP. which pretty much nullifies the Poisoning skill. You missed "a timer was added to healing pots", which would have been the simplest solution for Cures too.

All this has really changed, is that people leave the field more often to restock if they run low.

Yes, adding a cure pot timer would just make too much sense.

 

[I Play UO]

Well if the problem with balancing potions lay in what happened to them after people were already dead then we'd probably be concerned with how difficult they are to loot. (Although since they are still stackable you can still loot more than 2x of what you could previously.)

Hmm...I don't follow. Before 100 pots = 100 stones. Now 100 pots = 200 stones. How can I loot twice as much?

 

[Elden of Baja]

If they add a timer to cure pots I will play nothing but a dp ninja fencer
And then they will nerf Poison And thus we continue the vicious Cycle of Whine Nerf Whine Nerf Whine Nerf Whine Nerf

 

[Chrille]

Before 100 pots = 100 items = rather full backpack with 125 items max.
Maybe you werent around when you had to bring kegs around and fill potions up after youve used them. Only stackable was empty bottles.

 

[SixUnder]

Before 100 pots = 100 items = rather full backpack with 125 items max.
Maybe you werent around when you had to bring kegs around and fill potions up after youve used them. Only stackable was empty bottles.

good points.

but i really hate the 2 stones per pot. if doing something like say long spawn , harry, whatever its almost impossible to do anything but go without and die more

 

[Nyses]

If they add a timer to cure pots I will play nothing but a dp ninja fencer
And then they will nerf Poison And thus we continue the vicious Cycle of Whine Nerf Whine Nerf Whine Nerf Whine Nerf

I imagine a lot of people would also, until they realized that, on the field, DP would just get treated like dissarm is treated now. I mean that as soon as you get DPed, you chug, if you get DPed again, you just run until you can chug again.

 

[popps]

SKILL!
MAKE IT RELEVANT IN UO!
Sheesh.

I have been saying that, to have Ultima Online again be a "skill based", rather than "item based" game, for so long that I forgot how much this it is....

I still hope that changes will be made to make real skill way, but way more relevant in this game than items and their modifiers....

 

[Winker]

Well if the problem with balancing potions lay in what happened to them after people were already dead then we'd probably be concerned with how difficult they are to loot. (Although since they are still stackable you can still loot more than 2x of what you could previously.)

In faction fights its important to be able to loot the pots/bandies/trap boxes/apples from the other factioneers you fight. This stops them from being res'ed up on the spot and getting right back into the fight. Stat loss on its own does not stop people getting right back into the fight. Stat loss + no way of healing, does. Thus allowing one side to win.

 

[WarUltima]

Hmm...I don't follow. Before 100 pots = 100 stones. Now 100 pots = 200 stones. How can I loot twice as much?

You missed the point. Before (well fyi potions were designed to be unstackable when UO was released and remained that way for 7+ years).

So before before 100 cure potions = 100 stone = 100 items (means if you are running empty backpack at most you can carry is 125 potions

Then before it becomes 100 cure potions = 100 stone = 1 item (human char with 125 str and empty backpack allowed 400+ stone of weight = 400+ potion.

Now its 100 cure potions = 200 stone = 1 item so you still have 200 ish potion limit running empty backpack. WHICH is still double the limit then the original design.

Add a cure pot timer you while most noob dexer think this will wtf pwn didnt realize this will end up screwing themselves so hard. Now all mage has to do it to make sure they cast a LESSER POISON once every 3 to 4 second, and unless you have chiv, your bandage will NEVER EVER again heal for any amount of damage. And trust me nox mages will again running rampant and nox dexer will be more powerful but will still get trashed by nox mage. Which is why I've been against cure pot timer because I am not ignorant and know what's balance.

Actually I am pro-cure pot timer now, which will give me an alternative of playing any mage other than myst mages... wait nvm I will simply make a NOXX MYST MAGE... YEAAAA. And my tamer mage will be nox tamer mage. Be careful for what you wish for. Next time when you PvP on the field take a look at the mages around you... why is there no one casting poison spell anymore? And I can guaran-****ing-tee you if cure pots now have a timer you will see mages casting poisons all the time regardless if they have poisoning skill or not. And your bandage healing will be your main method for CURING.

Use your brains and think about it. And please add a timer on cure potions... so it will make so much sense for me to cast poison once every 3 second for a guaranteed bandage block!!! PLEASE ADD 20 second gcure timers!!! for the sake of mages to combat the dexers now!! thank you.

Actually make the cure pot timer even longer... the longer the better. I will put my arch cure macro back... and I am all set.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I'm no pvper, but if you'll excuse a pvmer's contribution, wouldn't said mage have to be able to at least deadly poison? Greater or less, potions aren't needed for, petals will do it.

 

[Basara]

Logrus: you said...

Pretty much the only way for players to lose potions with any regularity is dying in PvP and having the potions looted. In PvM the looting monsters are rarely the ones that players die to anyway at higher levels.

You must not do champ spawns much as the fighters of the spawns....

I mostly do Ilshenar spawns, but even when I venture to a Fel one, I'm more rightly worried about the SPAWN looting me, getting killed, then quick-decaying while I'm getting rezzed, than of Reds looting my corpse. In fact, losing stuff to the spawn looting is a lot more common and a lot more permanent, especially if you get blind-sided by a spawn changing over creature types (5 rat mages spawn, all target you at once, then some silly normal rat loots you, and gets eaten by your dragon before you can rez, for example - or a raider kills you, and a leftover imp wanders by and dry-loots you much more effectively than any red).

Is there anything you all can think of doing to champ spawn critters to where they WON'T quick-decay if they loot something that doesn't stack with their own loot? It would help a lot of PvM & PvP types.

 

[canary]

Yeah.

 

[[JD]]

Enhance Potions property Added.
Alchemists receive up to 30% bonus to enhance potions which does not count in the item cap so an alchemist using enhance potion items will receive a greater benefit than one without alchemy.

Logrus, first thank you for making an appearance on the thread.

Although an alchemist can gain 30% bonus a non-alchemist cannot, someone using ep can gain 50% bonus. How is it that 100 skill points is only worth 30%? If you ask me it should be reversed: Alchemists should receive a 50% bonus, and ep should cap at 30%. An uproar ensues..... mostly because ep is so good that many rely on potions far too much. And that is the trouble! Or how about Alchemists gain a bonus for using their OWN potions that they made? So that people who actually make their own pots- people who are alchemists- get a bonus, that the rest cannot? It would stand to reason that each alchemist would have their own "special variety" of potion... their own secret recipe.

Also I wholeheartedly agree, there needs to be a longer chug timer in PVP for greater cures. That would bring a poisoning mage back.... of course having alchemy should greatly reduce this timer!

 

[WarUltima]

I'm no pvper, but if you'll excuse a pvmer's contribution, wouldn't said mage have to be able to at least deadly poison? Greater or less, potions aren't needed for, petals will do it.

That's fine. Mages can cast deadly poison within 2 tiles, and even better if you pick up 60 necromancy with human 20 ss you can omen poison and inflict LETHAL POISON. Spell poison does not miss neither.

Also for petals, while it is indeed useful the 1 second delay made it easy to exploit. Orange petal will NEVER lift your poison instantly as the only instant poison removal is gcure pots and health stones (or if you want to be exact, trigger cleansing wind).

A good mage can time their poison so it still blocks your bandage before petal pulses this is assuming the mage didnt deadly/lethal you already.

Now it only takes 80 poison skill for a mage with 120 eval to cast DP/Lethal. And if the mage really wants to invest 70 weapon skill (that matches their mage weapon type which also has its primary special as infectious strike) and they can strike Lethal Poison into you just like dexers as if their spell DP/lethal isnt insulting enough. Fyi infectious strike does not require tactics to use.

Way more dexers asked for the timer without thinking how hard they will screw themselves. IMO cure timer is a good change as mages will get their long needed buff especially vs the dexers.

Then be sure to check back uhall and you will see some posts like "Remove DP/Lethal for mages" or "Make bandage heal thru poison" or "Mage is OPed ROFLLOLWTF DEV THINKING, THEIR LETHAL POISON NEVER MISSES AND DOESNT EVEN TAKE POISON POTIONS TO USE WTFLOL MAGES ONLINE ALL OVER AGAIN!!!11", or "I AM QUITTING NOW IM FORCED TO HAVE 4/6 Chiv to be able to compete??? LOLOLOLOLROFLWTFLOL". Oh fyi, even with 4/6 chiv and lv 5 karma, clense by fire only has like hmm 25% chance to cure lethal and while you are trying to cure you dont think the mage wont use the time and load you up with spell plague ect?

I just gave you some ideas/templates on how as simple as putting 80 poisoning in your mage template can make all dexers life a living hell.

Do you really want this timer change? Think about it.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I don't, but then I don't pvp, and I know cure pots can fail when fighting monsters.

My only pvp experience was back when bandages had a 12 second timer and my char had no chiv. I was challenged to a duel (fight night event) and told 'no pots allowed'. Heheh, you ever try fighting a 'poison/harm' mage with 12 sec bandies and no pots? She had the nerve to complain because my high resist spells allowed me to resist her poison spell some of the time.

 

[WarUltima]

I don't, but then I don't pvp, and I know cure pots can fail when fighting monsters.

My only pvp experience was back when bandages had a 12 second timer and my char had no chiv. I was challenged to a duel (fight night event) and told 'no pots allowed'. Heheh, you ever try fighting a 'poison/harm' mage with 12 sec bandies and no pots? She had the nerve to complain because my high resist spells allowed me to resist her poison spell some of the time.

Thats a long time ago I dont even know if Chiv was around at that era. I am assuming you are talking about the 12 sec bandage that gets slipped by 1 single point of damage (yes magic arrow was plenty to slip your bandage when UO was released and the diminishing value was a whooping 50% per slip compare to today's 19 dmg slip and 30% healing diminishing dexers now days are ultra carebears compare to the old dexers).

I just feel funny, I didnt start play dexers until the introduction of imbuing which clearly scoot the power toward any dexers kind, which is what I play mainly now. It just tickles me that so many dexers are clueless about balance and the consequence. All I hear about all day is "I WANT I WANT I WANT" when their WANTS turns around and kick them in the ass then all I hear about is "NERF NERF NERF" then "NERF EVERYONE BUT KEEP MY SUPER POWER".

I actually preferred them adding a timer on Gcure pots then doubling the weight tbh. As a mage player I WANT timer on cure pots... as a dexer I WANT timer on Gcure pots but nerf nox mages.

Sometimes people can be so amazingly clueless it's so funny. I cant wait to see nox dexers making a return to try to take on nox mages while all other none 4/6 chiv none poisoning dexers gets owned into the ground.

Again I will put it in this way... Lethal Poison that cannot be cured is essentially a mortal strike that lasts for up to 120 seconds that also ticks for 20 damage thru 70 resist once every 5 second at a mana cost next to nothing.

And who do you think will have the upper hand in dishing out deadly poisons?
Mage = free DP/Lethal/No Miss/Easily Recast/Ranged.
Dexers = DP/Lethal with potions only/ Can Whiff

And who do you think will have the uppder hand in curing lethal more than once per "Gcure Cooldown second"?
Mages = Arch Cure, 1.0 sec cast (1.5sec if mage choose to be UNINTERRUPTABLE), 90% chance to cure lethal and 100% to cure everything else + Gcure + Cleansing wind.
Dexers = Bandages once every 5 second (takes 5 for cure attempt) + Gcure + Cleanse by Fire (0.5 sec cast time 20% to cure lethal).

I am just stating some facts and how any half way decent mage will use cure timer to their advantages... And also trying to save some bandwidth because dexers WILL complain and whine and QQ later on when a gucre timer is in place and they realize that they didnt necessary have the one bottom spam = win power especially vs a mage. AND they are screwed that all mages have adapted and are poisoning them all the time every single time, and they couldnt carry too many Gcure pots and even if they do they still cant drink more than once every 10 seconds (it gets even better if cure and heal pot shares one cooldown).

 

[puni666]

Actually puni's idea has more merit than the current solution, and he at least is brainstorming, unlike your "useful suggestion" Chardonnay.

It wasn't a serious solution.. just trying to mix a bit of reality into UO which is a bad idea lol. IMO there is no need for a "fix" the weight changes were a good idea. Hell I used to run around with about 160 potions every time I left the house. That was enough to last me in a hour and a half constant fight. Now I can only stock for about 45 mins of continual fighting. Of course unless I loot someone freshly stocked .

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

So then why on earth would you make it harder to loot someone else's pots?

Well if the problem with balancing potions lay in what happened to them after people were already dead then we'd probably be concerned with how difficult they are to loot. (Although since they are still stackable you can still loot more than 2x of what you could previously.)

Why would you leave your potions stacked in your pack? Just because you can stack them dose not mean you do. Anyone I know who wants to be useful long term on the field leave all items unstacked, pots apples and bandages in groups.

Heck i have every item unstacked in one corner of my pack, and hot bared for "stackesque" functionality.

Enhance Potions property Added.
Alchemists receive up to 30% bonus to enhance potions which does not count in the item cap so an alchemist using enhance potion items will receive a greater benefit than one without alchemy.

Aside from me still thinking its ridiculous an item helps you more than the skill,
the 30% difference between 50 and 80 you get with 100 skill is pathetic.
Just now: Greater Heal with no ring 32. Greater Heal with ring and skill 43.
Thats an 11 point increase...

A shatter potion which is gotten by completing quests (non-player craftable) can reduce the number of potions by a %. So unless you only have 1 potion in your backpack it can never destroy all your potions.

No they are not. Its bought be NPC vendors which restock constantly.
And awesome? an intensive to just carry one heal pot when I hit the field.
three players can hit you with these every 50 seconds. Your combat alchemist is now useless. Youll be at one potion in no time.
Dude, when the new title system came out I was so happy to sport my alchemist title over head. It took me a week to wonder how everyone knew how to blast me with those potions.

In the future it would be nice take another look at alchemy and enhanced potions and see how the player community takes more invasive balancing steps. But for the moment at least this measure provides a more palatable solution.

All it does is change the amount of time that elapses before people with no alchemy skill abusing potions go to the bank to get more and return.

I'm probably more in favor of changes to alchemy than anyone in the world. But these are cheap fixes. It just blows my mind how skill and changes to potions were not major factors in the changes.

Pretty much the only way for players to lose potions with any regularity is dying in PvP and having the potions looted. In PvM the looting monsters are rarely the ones that players die to anyway at higher levels.

Or consuming them.
And for real man, Champ spawns. Quick looted by monsters and then escalated corpse decay, bye bye potions.

lol and you guys win twice on this one, now that they are extra heavy its guaranteed they will be looted if you stack them!

 

[WarUltima]

Hehe you just can't make everyone happy. When pots didn't stack people especially dexers complained its a pain to keep potion stocked and restock to go back to fight "why mages can just wear lrc and they can cure and can heal no down time" was the main QQing. Then you introduced kegs which kept things quiet a little bit.

Then dexers on the battlefield complained why they have to carry so many pots and they don't stack and takes up a lot of item counts because they have to carry 10 different kind of weapons while cheating mages in lrc doesn't have to and then you made pots stack.

Then dexers that uses poison and infectious strike complained how you can nuturalize their entire skill with gcure pots its unfair and people carry tons of pots now they can just grab 80 off their stack of 60k gcure pots in bank.

Then you made pots to weight double and now dexers and heavy pot users complains about you can carry so little pots coz they will go over weight and you can't loot anyone because its so heavy. Just add a potion timer.

Rofl and here's my future prediction.
So you put 10 second cooldown on gcures to make the nox spammer dexers happy and all other dexers will complain everyone just spams lethal poison now and we can only carry little gcures and takes long time to chug 2nd cure if you really needed a cure. Then after most if not all mages adapt and withnessed how powerful poissoning has become they are now nox myst mages nox tamer mages and nox necrimages and spam poison because you can't instant chug their lethal poison off. Then nox dexxer will complain how come mages can cure so easily with a spell called arch cure while they arespamming their always hit lethal poison and the noxxor can't chug their poison off instantly and constantly. Please nerf all mages that has poisoning skill. Only us skilled warriors should be able to spam lethal nonstop so nerf nox mages.


So what will be next?

 

[Llewen]

Please note that I have not read the entire thread, and I like the changes.

The end.

In fact I think it was a terrific change.

Now if only they would get serious about banning people for using health scripts...

 

[Vaelix]

Fun Stuff

My take on all this is, while a Nox Mage will be extremely powerful if there were a Timer on GCures, It wouldn't be so devastating against dexxers that it would be pointless to fight them.

You still have pots and petals, and while Yes you can interrupt and time your poisons based on their petal/potion timer, that is also assuming that the Dexxer is a total idiot and Lets you do these things without interrupting your spells or off-screening your casting.

Also, 120 Bush Resist Parry / Ect..

I can still heal Through your Poison with HP Regen Confidence and Parry HP Bonus from it, your poisons *Are* subject to missing because of resist, and Omen is Not a 100% Poison if the player makes good use of their trap box.

Lethal is extremely easy to heal around as the timer for the damage is Very long and is actually worse of an interrupt than the lesser levels of poison due to their quick ticks. (I still love lethal mind you, poisoning is one of my favorite pvp skills).

Mage poison *skill* is also subject to being made somewhat useless if a Dexxer makes sure to avoid 2 Tiles of the mage when he has a poison Pre-Casted.

Also, Adding 70 Weapon Skill to a Mage would require the Mage to need HCI on his suit, That 70 Skill is also 10 more than the 60 Necro you would need for Omen (Like you said) So Imo, bad choice.

The way I look at it, if there were GCure Timers and Nox Mages wanted to spam poison, I'd grab a Disarm LP Resist Evade Dexxer and just..

Disarm Lethal Spam
Evade spam
Confidence Off-screen Spam (While poisoned as it still heals and Lethal is too slow to really be a good interrupt against it)
Trap box myself on your Omens
And Avoid 2 Tiles of you when I think you are going for Poison.

I could even go as far as to drink a Lesser Poison because as a Dexxer I can still use my Damage output while taking random hits.

 

[Nyses]

Actually puni's idea has more merit than the current solution, and he at least is brainstorming, unlike your "useful suggestion" Chardonnay.

It wasn't a serious solution.. just trying to mix a bit of reality into UO which is a bad idea lol. IMO there is no need for a "fix" the weight changes were a good idea. Hell I used to run around with about 160 potions every time I left the house. That was enough to last me in a hour and a half constant fight. Now I can only stock for about 45 mins of continual fighting. Of course unless I loot someone freshly stocked .

Ya, I figured you were joking, but it made for an amusing discussion. Only reason I piped up in this thread, is that I fail to see why the changes were made the way they were. What was the exact issue the devs were trying to balance?

And, for the record, the potion changes really don't affect me one way or the other. Most of my chars do not use pots and the ones that do only carry about 12 of each. As for the Poisoning skill, it has been reduced to a mule skill for me.

 

[Vaelix]

*Random Note* I do agree that GCure Timers would be amazingly effective against Non Resist Dexxers, when fighting Nox Mages, I'll give you that War.

A GCure timer might give players an incentive to run resist on their dexxers again (Even though I usually always do)

 

[chad]

I personally dislike the weight changes.

Imo...
Level 5 poison vs greater cure potion should = 50% cure rate.
Level 5 poison vs cure spell = 25% cure rate
Level 5 poison vs arch cure = 100% cure rate

Or something similar.

 

[Nyses]

I personally dislike the weight changes.

Imo...
Level 5 poison vs greater cure potion should = 50% cure rate.
Level 5 poison vs cure spell = 25% cure rate
Level 5 poison vs arch cure = 100% cure rate

Or something similar.

Not a bad idea at all, I like it!

 

[WarUltima]

*Random Note* I do agree that GCure Timers would be amazingly effective against Non Resist Dexxers, when fighting Nox Mages, I'll give you that War.

A GCure timer might give players an incentive to run resist on their dexxers again (Even though I usually always do)

And you forgot to address other than magery poison and omen lethal, mages can just as well Lethal spam in dexer's fashion. Btw I have a perfect suit for it as well. And it's not hard to swing a mage weapon -20 kryss at cap speed, and thanks to imbuing its just as easy to load up dci/hci/ or even dci/hci combo.

So This takes us back to root one.
1. Mage spending 70 extra skill in melee weapon can now infectious strike in dexers fashion.

2. Mage still has the best cure in game at no cooldown what so ever, and you dont have to roll on the 20% cure chance that cleanse by fire gives you.

3. Why would any melee dexer RUN AWAY from a mage because they want to avoid a possible poison? If this was true then poison casting word of power will become instant Dexer repeller spell, the fact is this simply does NOT happen.

4. If you have ever gotten hit by a mage with a harm spell at max dmg (melee range) the mage has double that range capable of casting DP or omen lethal. This is assuming the mages didnt just do dexer style and infectious lethal strike you already.

In the end assume everything is equal who will have the upper hand in curing lethal poison?

I agree with some of your points but some simple just does not make sense, and you left out the possibility that mages might also use their weapon to poison as well as spell, and just to block a bandage, a lesser poison from 11 tiles away would also do the trick... just fyi.