Year End Approaching...No Classic Shard

[Aragon100]

Really? How often do you do a quest in UO? How much experience do you gain from killing a monster? Did you level up your mage to 85 yet? Do you roll for need or for greed? Get real, UO is not even in the same category of game as WoW. 7 years now, and you're still grasping at the past.

WoW is safe trammel gameplay. Insurances make you not loose anything when you die in UO. There is no consequences left in UO, just like in WoW.

UO was called the best sandbox of all times but that ended with AoS.

WoW is a themepark MMO and UO is to me in the same category after AoS.

Quests in WoW dont make that game very unsimilar to UO. Both games is games without consequences where developers take care of their playerbase and keep them safe, out of harms way.

 

[Lord Chaos]

There is lots of consequence to dying in UO...in fact there's more consequence to dying now than there often were in pre-AOS UO.

 

[Skrag]

PK and items without stats on them are not the definition of "sandbox". Also, can this crap about half the playerbase wanting a classic shard. 80% of everyone I know in UO doesn't even remember the pre-Tram days.

 

[HD2300]

"Some players are really crazy. If you accept the word "crazy" can be applied to an individual, then statistically some crazy people will play virtual worlds. A user base the size of EverQuest's will include several bona fide psychopaths. That's assuming that virtual worlds mirror the general population: It could be, for example, that the nature of these worlds is such that fewer crazy people play that. Alternatively, they could act as magnets. I suspect the latter."

And, Mr. Bartle, you'd suspect very right.

To escape the real world in which this behavior simply isn't tolerated, these people will gravitate toward virtual worlds, and the internet, as they can likely always find a group who will accept them, and possibly get a kick out of them. They won't be as socially outcasted in general, even though the "normals" will still come to see them for what they are eventually.

But, I suppose the point is that, if virtual worlds are psychopath magnets - IPY was a ****ing black hole.

Bartle mentioned that a game the size of EQ would have "several" psychopaths. Well, I think IPY surpassed the "several" mark a few times over. And it'd be nice if I were exaggerating, but unfortunately I am not.

Toward the end, I had very few normal, solidly good people left to talk to. Our topic of discussion would revolve from sports, to UO, to MMORPGs, to how completely ****ed up the IPY playerbase is and was. I don't know if a day went by that didn't include some type of conversation about how crazy some of these people were. It literally blew my mind - over, and over, and over again. My desire to put up with people like this ran very low during the last few months of IPY. It genuinely bugged me that there would always be another one around the corner.

I suppose the nature of these games would tend to attract the obsessives. And we saw a lot of those, in fine form. But from obsessive, to pathological, to multiple personality disorders, to being downright malicious in nature - we just saw it all. And it got pretty messed up sometimes. So much so that, at times, I decided that there wasn't a dollar amount you could pay me to do this job. Yet there I was doing it for free.

Why IPY was a blackhole for other types of trouble, I suppose I'll never know. Although it can all be explained individually, I guess, that certainly doesn't mean I've ever seen more bull**** swirling around one bowl in my entire life.

from In Por Ylem - A Piece of Ultima Online History

This is so true. Hahahahaha.

 

[Aragon100]

There is lots of consequence to dying in UO...in fact there's more consequence to dying now than there often were in pre-AOS UO.

You mean you have to pay some very, very easily gained money in insurance cost as a consequence?

That money means nothing when all players have millions in their bank.

Full loot as it was in old classic UO was a game that punished you for your mistakes. Pets could be killed before bonding arrived and in felucca lured away on boats to never been seen again. Before trammel arrived gatherers had a huge risk loosing their work out of towns.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Full loot as it was in old classic UO was a game that punished you for your mistakes.

Replace "your mistakes" with "leaving the guard zone" and you're closer to it.

Sorry, but I doubt that most people considered getting ganked and strip-looted with no chance whatsoever to fight back as "their mistake".

And guess what... you won't get the people likely to allow such a situation on a "classic shard" anyway because they did not see the fun in gank squads then and they don't now.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Honestly I never expected the shard to happen, it was somewhat entertaining to discuss it but we all knew deep down it wasn't happening, it's just a thing we old timers do every year at a certain point.

I have personally left the MMO scene altogether after 14 years and various games I am just burnt out on the genre altogether. The thing to remember about MMO games is that they aren't just for nerds anymore, they haven't been since everquest came out really, the way games are marketed now they are not viewed as the social taboo they once were.

So many people game nowadays that the product will shift to meet whatever demand is there, it turns out most people don't care for the hardcore gameplay of old UO and that really isn't surprising, we just didn't see the game as hardcore back in the early days even though it obviously is.

These games mean different things to different people, but the largest portion of the market is made up of casual gamers. People who just burn a few hours here and there, and they don't want those few hours spent having another player deny them of things they have earned.

Now all that aside, I personally found the EQ/WoW style of game to be incredibly boring, but the market changed a long time ago, we were fortunate to have been a part of the social experiment that was UO but that experience will never be had again.

I'm not saying that people are chasing nostalgia, I just mean to say that the game market doesn't seem to have much room for our playstyle. The best you can do is find a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online to support and hope they finally work the kinks out, even so, we are the niche and those games will never reach high population numbers.

To the poster who basically said UO has been dieing for years but is still here, I think you misunderstand. UO was not fated to die a quick death, at least not in my opinion.

I mean a lot of you folks seem to think it's a lack of advertising, did you ever stop to wonder why it isn't advertised? The answer is simple, it cannot compete, it's a niche game that has stayed well beyond it's expected shelf life, the moment it stops turning a profit they will cut life support and it will be gone.

 

[Felonious Monk]

PK and items without stats on them are not the definition of "sandbox". Also, can this crap about half the playerbase wanting a classic shard. 80% of everyone I know in UO doesn't even remember the pre-Tram days.

^This^
Does any body remember shopping for regs? And there are none.....Camped reg vendors meant player vendors could set the market. If you didnt have much gold you couldn't afford 10k of each reg for backup.
If you needed regs and were red........ I hope your planned ahead........

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

So, you don't want a classic shard. Yay. But you also don't like what the majority likes and has liked for a solid decade now?

That is not the truth.

What you describe a majority was artificially created by developers. There was never an option for the classic players to continue their game cause that game seased to exist with AoS in february 2003.

How can you call them a majority when there is no counterpart?

When Trammel was created, 90% of the player base fled there within the first two days. They stayed there for 10 years.

YOU and the vocally disproportionate minority may rail against AoS and the changed it wrought, but that was SEVEN YEARS AGO. Get over yourselves.

After AoS was released the subscription numbers went down and have steadily declined.

What would have happened to the number of subscribers if there was some classic EA shards to play during these years?

That is anybodies guess but i am 100% sure they would have had alot more subscribers and most likely not a decline in subscription numbers.

Removing the old classic UO game entirely february 2003 with AoS was most likely the worst business decision ever by EA.

What? Not going to trot out the graph? I’m mildly disappointed… Since you can only base your hyperbole regarding sub numbers on a dubious graph and a single share holder report your argument is rather weak. OSI/Redwood Shores/Mythic/EA doesn’t give out sub numbers, until they do this particular line of argument is crap.

Now, as players we know that the game has lost subs. However, placing the blame on any one thing is wishful thinking at best.

A true "newb" is someone who can't adapt to a changing game and would rather whine about it even after they supposedly quit.

Adapt to a totally different gameplay? I dont think so.

You’ve had SEVEN YEARS. The rest of us appear capable of adapting to changing times, mores, and systems. If you can’t adapt in that amount of time, consider yourself a victim of natural selection and stop playing UO.

There is lots of consequence to dying in UO...in fact there's more consequence to dying now than there often were in pre-AOS UO.

You mean you have to pay some very, very easily gained money in insurance cost as a consequence?

That money means nothing when all players have millions in their bank.

Sigh.

There are players who do NOT have millions in their banks. I know several. They play UO to have FUN, not sit online all day to collect virtual monies.

Full loot as it was in old classic UO was a game that punished you for your mistakes. Pets could be killed before bonding arrived and in felucca lured away on boats to never been seen again. Before trammel arrived gatherers had a huge risk loosing their work out of towns.

Yeah, again, this is why 90% of the player base WILLINGLY WALKED AWAY FROM FELUCCA THEY DAY IT WAS CREATED. People don’t want to be ‘punished’ by their recreation simply because some immature geek wanted to get his sociopathy on.

Most people don’t want to lose their gold, armor, weapon, pet, etc. just because someone else likes killing. People do like the “safe” gameplay. They voted with their feet 10 years ago. Majority rules. Get used to it.

...

Full loot as it was in old classic UO was a game that punished you for your mistakes.

Replace "your mistakes" with "leaving the guard zone" and you're closer to it.

Sorry, but I doubt that most people considered getting ganked and strip-looted with no chance whatsoever to fight back as "their mistake".

And guess what... you won't get the people likely to allow such a situation on a "classic shard" anyway because they did not see the fun in gank squads then and they don't now.

Well said, Dermott.

 

[NorCal]

Honestly I never expected the shard to happen, it was somewhat entertaining to discuss it but we all knew deep down it wasn't happening, it's just a thing we old timers do every year at a certain point.

I have personally left the MMO scene altogether after 14 years and various games I am just burnt out on the genre altogether. The thing to remember about MMO games is that they aren't just for nerds anymore, they haven't been since everquest came out really, the way games are marketed now they are not viewed as the social taboo they once were.

So many people game nowadays that the product will shift to meet whatever demand is there, it turns out most people don't care for the hardcore gameplay of old UO and that really isn't surprising, we just didn't see the game as hardcore back in the early days even though it obviously is.

These games mean different things to different people, but the largest portion of the market is made up of casual gamers. People who just burn a few hours here and there, and they don't want those few hours spent having another player deny them of things they have earned.

Now all that aside, I personally found the EQ/WoW style of game to be incredibly boring, but the market changed a long time ago, we were fortunate to have been a part of the social experiment that was UO but that experience will never be had again.

I'm not saying that people are chasing nostalgia, I just mean to say that the game market doesn't seem to have much room for our playstyle. The best you can do is find a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online to support and hope they finally work the kinks out, even so, we are the niche and those games will never reach high population numbers.

To the poster who basically said UO has been dieing for years but is still here, I think you misunderstand. UO was not fated to die a quick death, at least not in my opinion.

I mean a lot of you folks seem to think it's a lack of advertising, did you ever stop to wonder why it isn't advertised? The answer is simple, it cannot compete, it's a niche game that has stayed well beyond it's expected shelf life, the moment it stops turning a profit they will cut life support and it will be gone.

Unfortunately this is probably 100% correct. UO will die a slow death from attrition. Slowly it will lose accounts until it is no longer profitable and EA will pull the plug. It is a niche game. Advertising will not work it simply cannot compete with newer games.

What I don't understand is why people that love this game can be so opposed to any idea that could delay the inevitable.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

You, Avatar, are loosing focus.

The evolution that was prevented is the issue.

Ha. Ha.

 

[Sukyanti]

What I don't understand is why people that love this game can be so opposed to any idea that could delay the inevitable.

What I don't understand is how people is why people can't see that in addition to the "could delay the inevitable", there's also a whopping great chance of "could hasten the inevitable".
If the devs get pulled off sparkly pixels and bug fixes to work on this, and it fails, don't you think there's a chance EA won't pat them on the head and say "Better luck next time"?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

What I don't understand is why people that love this game can be so opposed to any idea that could delay the inevitable.

I'm not specifically opposed to a classic shard, I simply have no interest in playing on one and believe that it will NOT be the experience many posters are expecting it to be. Basically, I'm skeptical of the success of it, but not "against it".

UO almost had a more advertiseable client than what it has now, but due to the mismanagement of teh release of said client and then a long lack of updates followed by the loss of a good portion of the team working on it, followed further by a compromised "revamp", that chance was lost.

 

[NorCal]

What I don't understand is how people is why people can't see that in addition to the "could delay the inevitable", there's also a whopping great chance of "could hasten the inevitable".
If the devs get pulled off sparkly pixels and bug fixes to work on this, and it fails, don't you think there's a chance EA won't pat them on the head and say "Better luck next time"?

Why would they stop working on new content and bug fixes if they decided to greenlight classic? You're right that would be stupid and it could be detrimental to the game. I don't disagree.

Some anti-classic poster make it sound like all new content would grind to a halt and people would leave in droves. It just sounds like fear mongering to me.

 

[Sukyanti]

Why would they stop working on new content and bug fixes if they decided to greenlight classic? You're right that would be stupid and it could be detrimental to the game. I don't disagree.

Some anti-classic poster make it sound like all new content would grind to a halt and people would leave in droves. It just sounds like fear mongering to me.

Not unlike the "The game will die without it" thing we see from the other side. Both sides are quite adorable, in their own ways.
However, it's not as if is up to its ears in devs. I mean, seriously, the updates to the game we have now aren't exactly coming thick and fast (or working properly, in some cases).

Like Dermott, I'm skeptical of its success under the best circumstances, and I don't think we're even close to that.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Why would they stop working on new content and bug fixes if they decided to greenlight classic? You're right that would be stupid and it could be detrimental to the game. I don't disagree.

Some anti-classic poster make it sound like all new content would grind to a halt and people would leave in droves. It just sounds like fear mongering to me.

The Team isn't large enough to continue to produce both the content we expect (at an acceptable pace) AND recreate a classic shard from scratch. They would essentially be working on two different games at the same time. (Since KNOW there isn't much server code left prior to 2003, and none before 2001)

From the moment the High Seas was announced, visible development on the rest of the game stopped. No publishes until after the booster and then those were all to retcon the content into a playable state. They skipped the Anniversary of UO because of the myopic focus on the booster.

Honestly, do you believe the Team has demonstrated the capability to split their focus and remain effective?

It’s not fear mongering if it’s been plainly demonstrated less than six months ago.

 

[Aragon100]

What? Not going to trot out the graph? I’m mildly disappointed… Since you can only base your hyperbole regarding sub numbers on a dubious graph and a single share holder report your argument is rather weak. OSI/Redwood Shores/Mythic/EA doesn’t give out sub numbers, until they do this particular line of argument is crap.

Of course noone can take number of subscribers described in these MMO charters for the 100% truth but it's interesting to see them never the less. And good that we can agree that the number of subscribers have gone down since AoS were introduced.

When Trammel was created, 90% of the player base fled there within the first two days. They stayed there for 10 years.

So we have no numbers of total subscribers over the years but you know that out of those unknown numbers of subscribers 90% played in trammel 2 days after they opened it up? It is not me that take numbers out of thin air here, it is you.

And if you played on Europe server as i did then you would have had a totally different proportion of players on the different facets. Your numbers is wrong and taken out of thin air. That dont make your arguments any stronger. I would call them made up to fit your agenda.

Now, as players we know that the game has lost subs. However, placing the blame on any one thing is wishful thinking at best.

So we had AoS coming to UO and some months later loads of pre AoS freeshards open up and loads of former UO players from felucca enters them. That is no coincidence. AoS was very poor business for EA.

You’ve had SEVEN YEARS. The rest of us appear capable of adapting to changing times, mores, and systems. If you can’t adapt in that amount of time, consider yourself a victim of natural selection and stop playing UO.

And what have time to do with opening up a classic shard? I played freeshards and other MMO games during these seven years but still want to see my old UO back. You a today player with a UO game to play opposing that we oldtimers get our UO back is more peculiar. Very selfish is the word.

There are players who do NOT have millions in their banks. I know several. They play UO to have FUN, not sit online all day to collect virtual monies.

So you agree then that the consequences in today UO is more severe then they were on the classic shards? You didnt answer that one.

Yeah, again, this is why 90% of the player base WILLINGLY WALKED AWAY FROM FELUCCA THEY DAY IT WAS CREATED. People don’t want to be ‘punished’ by their recreation simply because some immature geek wanted to get his sociopathy on.

Most people don’t want to lose their gold, armor, weapon, pet, etc. just because someone else likes killing. People do like the “safe” gameplay. They voted with their feet 10 years ago. Majority rules. Get used to it.

Oh but you're wrong. There was loads of UO players that didnt want to play a safe heaven trammel game with no risk vs rewards at all. They wanted that special exitement that could only be found in felucca. A real challenge when you fought against other players and not just predictable stupid NPC:s. I can agree that most of the today players prefer games like UO trammel and WoW but there is loads of players searching for a game that could be similar to old classic UO. Most of them have not found a replacer yet.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Since KNOW there isn't much server code left prior to 2003, and none before 2001

This is 100% untrue. The statement that they had accidentally deleted or destroyed all the backups was nothing but a cop-out answer...and a boldface lie.

HOWEVER...

...it doesn't matter because it is highly unlikely that old server code would function properly with the current clients without a great deal of modification.

HOWEVER...

...there are other options besides using the original code, or writing new code from the ground up.

HOWEVER...

...EA will likely not explore those options because of legal issues that could arise if they did.


Which leaves us EXACTLY where we started with my original post. No Classic Shard. Which leaves us, Classic UO fans, little choice but to cancel our accounts and move on.

So for everyone posting "I don't like Classic UO. It was all hard and stuff and I died a lot" ... don't worry. There will not be an official Classic Shard. Your uber neon artifact pile is safe. Your no-risk carebear gameplay will remain as it has been since EA abandoned originality and hopped on the EverQuest bandwagon. So go and enjoy your game...this thread was NOT directed at you.

Meanwhile...there are other options available for those of us that seek something else, and it is a real shame that EA/Mythic pushed us, and so many others, to explore those options instead of actually trying to keep us as paying customers.

 

[Aragon100]

The Team isn't large enough to continue to produce both the content we expect (at an acceptable pace) AND recreate a classic shard from scratch. They would essentially be working on two different games at the same time. (Since KNOW there isn't much server code left prior to 2003, and none before 2001)

From the moment the High Seas was announced, visible development on the rest of the game stopped. No publishes until after the booster and then those were all to retcon the content into a playable state. They skipped the Anniversary of UO because of the myopic focus on the booster.

Honestly, do you believe the Team has demonstrated the capability to split their focus and remain effective?

It’s not fear mongering if it’s been plainly demonstrated less than six months ago.

Can you please verify where you get these statements from?

How mush new work do they have to do on this classic shard? Can you give me some hard fact's that backs your statements?

And if you have none how can you then claim that the developer team isnt big enough?

Server code left? I it also taken out of thin air like the claim that 90% ran over to trammel the first 2 days after AoS?

I saw someone mention in a earlier classic thread that there wasnt much code left but that wasnt a developer's statement, or?

And if it wasnt coming from a developer then i think you should'nt be too sure of how much server code there is left from a certain UO time. Would be interesting to get a response from someone who know the situation though.

And even better, would be very appreciated to get a yes or a no answer to a classic shard from developers.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

One of the devs did say that. However, it is not true.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

So for everyone posting "I don't like Classic UO. It was all hard and stuff and I died a lot"

This just shows that you're not even making an attempt to "listen" to what people are saying.

Most players don't mind a game being hard if it is done so in a LOGICAL manner. Having your miner insta-killed in a low-spawn area by a group of PKs, dry-looted, then endlessly and immaturely taunted is neither logical NOR is it a "challenge" to either side.

Quite frankly those that DID have fun back then more likely than not had fun IN SPITE of such events, not because of them.

Face it, UO is no longer the "only game in town" and hasn't been since EQ's meteoric rise and overtaking of UO's numbers while UO was flattening out. People left UO not because EQ was so much better... 90s 3d graphics were a pile of suck and the gameplay was even worse (giving rise to the term "catass" to describe some of the more insane aspects of the game), but because it gave them a CHOICE to not be insta-killed by someone on a power trip.

Even in the heyday of Pre-Trammel, UOs numbers would be considered now the low end of the MMO spectrum instead of (at the time) Guinness Book worthy.

Now it will obviously help the game in terms of numbers to do this (at least for a while... long term is obviously the question here and one not exactly easy to answer), but really Morgana you do you side no favors in treating the people you disagree with in the manner you do in this debate. You alienate people who would be supportive and make them WANT your idea to fail.

Go back and read the IPY post-mortem. The issue pre-Trammel players have to overcome has NOTHING to do with "people who want an easy game".

They could make UO a LOT harder than it is now without ANY aspect of PvP being involved. It's simply a matter of rebalancing the PvM combat balances and tweaking the loot tables accordingly (and yes removing the "generate free stuff" rewards).

it is a real shame that EA/Mythic pushed us

You brought it on yourselves... again read the IPY post-mortem. Quite frankly... those types are Bad For Business™. You have been your own worst enemy both pre-Trammel and in the attempts for a pre-Trammel server.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I understand your frustrations, and Martyna has a bit of truth in what she is saying.

We had news a few months ago that most of the team working on UO got fired because of personnel cuts, ya know.

Get it straight, for the guardian, ahem UO dosen't matter.

Cal, does his job and for him UO matters but its not the most important thing in his life, who knows perhaps he has children...

Don't diss the guys so easily, he might come up with an idea ! After all there is an OPEN source code available to start a server, and he might just be able to pull a few strings so we can have our long deserved evolution.

Evolution is a key word in this discussion and we old timers were simply reduced to bonzais when we were set to become wild free baobabs who self regulated through necessity.

Perfect distribution for maximum useage of energy without striving for perfection. That is the essence.

Get it through your head the heavy serious feeling you get out of arguing this, well its the guardian.

He is laughing so hard reading this right now, you were laughing at his game earlier, however it is more real that it first shows.

It is right now. I am your only companion.

Morgana is not queen Mab, she is a romantic that does not care for power over others.

She is the flower of Ultima Online and look how you treat her.

Would you have her become a symbol of vanity ?

Do not do unto others what you would not like done unto yourself.

Patience is one of the hidden virtues.

Perseverance is the other, and I admire the courage of people like Aragon who respond in a mature and organised way.

But do not lose focus avatar, it is now that humanity will either fail or finally see beyond the horizon.

The ultimate realisation of free masonry, building a world, like taking a cutting from a tree.

There is no seed, there is no chicken.

We just are, here. Many choices, little time...

 

[zackevivrus]

...

So for everyone posting "I don't like Classic UO. It was all hard and stuff and I died a lot"

This just shows that you're not even making an attempt to "listen" to what people are saying.

Most players don't mind a game being hard if it is done so in a LOGICAL manner. Having your miner insta-killed in a low-spawn area by a group of PKs, dry-looted, then endlessly and immaturely taunted is neither logical NOR is it a "challenge" to either side.

Quite frankly those that DID have fun back then more likely than not had fun IN SPITE of such events, not because of them.

Face it, UO is no longer the "only game in town" and hasn't been since EQ's meteoric rise and overtaking of UO's numbers while UO was flattening out. People left UO not because EQ was so much better... 90s 3d graphics were a pile of suck and the gameplay was even worse (giving rise to the term "catass" to describe some of the more insane aspects of the game), but because it gave them a CHOICE to not be insta-killed by someone on a power trip.

Even in the heyday of Pre-Trammel, UOs numbers would be considered now the low end of the MMO spectrum instead of (at the time) Guinness Book worthy.

Now it will obviously help the game in terms of numbers to do this (at least for a while... long term is obviously the question here and one not exactly easy to answer), but really Morgana you do you side no favors in treating the people you disagree with in the manner you do in this debate. You alienate people who would be supportive and make them WANT your idea to fail.

Go back and read the IPY post-mortem. The issue pre-Trammel players have to overcome has NOTHING to do with "people who want an easy game".

They could make UO a LOT harder than it is now without ANY aspect of PvP being involved. It's simply a matter of rebalancing the PvM combat balances and tweaking the loot tables accordingly (and yes removing the "generate free stuff" rewards).

it is a real shame that EA/Mythic pushed us

You brought it on yourselves... again read the IPY post-mortem. Quite frankly... those types are Bad For Business™. You have been your own worst enemy both pre-Trammel and in the attempts for a pre-Trammel server.

you're being unfair. not everyone wants to kill monsters, most actually want to play, living breathing enemies. frankly, im disappoint at your lack of consideration for your fellow gamers.

does it bug you to die? get over it, its a video game, all that stuff you lose, is just intangible pixels that have no real value.

you dont have to be in fel and you dont have to play a classic shard, you have your way, just allow us the chance of having our way on a completely different server than you. If anything, you should be happy to think that pks might actually leave your shard and open up a whole new facet to play on.

your like a canadian wanting to cast a vote for the american presidency. if anything, your just as bad as a pk, your just griefing us because our play style. Do you take enjoyment from ruining our chance of playing a game we enjoy? if so maybe you should consider picking up a pk yourselve, because what pks did to you to make you so bitter, is the samething your doing to us.

no one is trying to take anything from you, so please, i sincerely ask you, to allow us to have one thread were you dont shoot down something that has absolutely nothing to do with you. NO ONE is asking to have your game changed. think about it.

 

[Sukyanti]

frankly, im disappoint at your lack of consideration for your fellow gamers.

does it bug you to die? get over it, its a video game, all that stuff you lose, is just intangible pixels that have no real value.

There's some premium irony, right there.

 

[zackevivrus]

frankly, im disappoint at your lack of consideration for your fellow gamers.

does it bug you to die? get over it, its a video game, all that stuff you lose, is just intangible pixels that have no real value.

There's some premium irony, right there.

i always give loot back, but i know that generally speaking most dont. I want to pk you, i however do not want your pickaxe... im super considerate.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

When Trammel was created, 90% of the player base fled there within the first two days. They stayed there for 10 years.

So we have no numbers of total subscribers over the years but you know that out of those unknown numbers of subscribers 90% played in trammel 2 days after they opened it up? It is not me that take numbers out of thin air here, it is you.

And if you played on Europe server as i did then you would have had a totally different proportion of players on the different facets. Your numbers is wrong and taken out of thin air. That dont make your arguments any stronger. I would call them made up to fit your agenda.

In 2000, I played on 3 servers. Great Lakes, Lake Superior and Pacific. I had a home in Felucca on all three, mostly in Yew.

On GL it was as if someone flipped a switch. The single most popular establishment on the shard, Kazola’s, was dead overnight. This place wasn’t just popular with RPers, but with PKs, AntiPKs and regular players as well. Where were they all? In Trammel. This was repeated on the other two shards.

I kept my homes in Fel until 2007 since I had some really choice spots. However, I jumped over to Tram (and moved everything to GL) since that’s where all my friends were. I still have two homes on a grandfathered account in Fel, doubt I will get rid of them.

While saying 90% of the players went to Tram may not have a spiffy chart to toss about, it’s fairly obvious that the Tram rule set facets are populated far heavier than Fel is. Yew gate is about the only place you see people other than Brit and the faction bases.

You’ve had SEVEN YEARS. The rest of us appear capable of adapting to changing times, mores, and systems. If you can’t adapt in that amount of time, consider yourself a victim of natural selection and stop playing UO.

And what have time to do with opening up a classic shard? I played freeshards and other MMO games during these seven years but still want to see my old UO back. You a today player with a UO game to play opposing that we oldtimers get our UO back is more peculiar. Very selfish is the word.

Sorry, not all ‘oldtimers’ pine for a classic shard. Been playing since pre-alpha and I’m glad the era of antisocial pricks ruling everything has been over for a decade.

So you agree then that the consequences in today UO is more severe then they were on the classic shards? You didnt answer that one.

That’s because I wasn’t commenting on death being severe, just your assertion that everyone had millions of gold.

Yeah, again, this is why 90% of the player base WILLINGLY WALKED AWAY FROM FELUCCA THEY DAY IT WAS CREATED. People don’t want to be ‘punished’ by their recreation simply because some immature geek wanted to get his sociopathy on.

Most people don’t want to lose their gold, armor, weapon, pet, etc. just because someone else likes killing. People do like the “safe” gameplay. They voted with their feet 10 years ago. Majority rules. Get used to it.

Oh but you're wrong. There was loads of UO players that didnt want to play a safe heaven trammel game with no risk vs rewards at all. They wanted that special exitement that could only be found in felucca. A real challenge when you fought against other players and not just predictable stupid NPC:s. I can agree that most of the today players prefer games like UO trammel and WoW but there is loads of players searching for a game that could be similar to old classic UO. Most of them have not found a replacer yet.

Sorry, but that’s complete hyperbole. Where are these masses waiting for a classic shard? All we EVER see is the proponents of such a shard making wild claims that hundreds of people are salivating at the thought of paying to play a ‘classic’ version of a 13 year old game.

Either these people have found other games to sate their virtual bloodlust, or more likely, they simply don’t exist.

Since KNOW there isn't much server code left prior to 2003, and none before 2001

This is 100% untrue. The statement that they had accidentally deleted or destroyed all the backups was nothing but a cop-out answer...and a boldface lie.

Yes, a bold face lie! Why didn’t we see it sooner! All bow down to Morgana's prescience!

Oh, wait, sorry, I live in reality.

I’m far more inclined to believe Draconi http://vboards.stratics.com/1798180-post86.html than you, a highly disgruntled ex-player with an axe to grind.

The Team isn't large enough to continue to produce both the content we expect (at an acceptable pace) AND recreate a classic shard from scratch. They would essentially be working on two different games at the same time. (Since KNOW there isn't much server code left prior to 2003, and none before 2001)

From the moment the High Seas was announced, visible development on the rest of the game stopped. No publishes until after the booster and then those were all to retcon the content into a playable state. They skipped the Anniversary of UO because of the myopic focus on the booster.

Honestly, do you believe the Team has demonstrated the capability to split their focus and remain effective?

It’s not fear mongering if it’s been plainly demonstrated less than six months ago.

Can you please verify where you get these statements from?

How mush new work do they have to do on this classic shard? Can you give me some hard fact's that backs your statements?

And if you have none how can you then claim that the developer team isnt big enough?

Wow, you people really have issues with facts that completely contradict your narrow worldview, don’t you?

Here, as I posted for Morgana, I’ll post it again for you:

http://vboards.stratics.com/1798180-post86.html

Server code left? I it also taken out of thin air like the claim that 90% ran over to trammel the first 2 days after AoS?

I saw someone mention in a earlier classic thread that there wasnt much code left but that wasnt a developer's statement, or?

And if it wasnt coming from a developer then i think you should'nt be too sure of how much server code there is left from a certain UO time. Would be interesting to get a response from someone who know the situation though.

Dear god. Do some research before posting again please. Draconi was lead programmer on UO for years. He probably knows more about how UO works than the entire team combined.

As for how big the team is, a list was posted in another thread listing everyone Mythic publicly says works on UO. If you weed out the people who don’t code, I believe that something like six people.

Not enough to split off and start a project of this magnitude and not have it horribly affect the main shards. Sorry, but the majority doesn’t want to sit on its thumbs and pay for a shard that only a handful of people may stick with. We don’t want another Siege.

One of the devs did say that. However, it is not true.

Hmm. Believe Morgana’s wish fulfillment, or believe someone (Draconi) who actually HAS credibility and knows WTF he’s talking about.

Choices, choices.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

As a companion I must again intervene, because you avatar are under influence.

We can all imagine you by now, sitting back on your chair, cracking your fingers in satisfaction at the implacable logic that took you months to understand yourself.

But I saw it all along didn't I ?

Oh your logic is fine, despite the many sophisms so indirect the might be.

I agree completely that 6 people cannot run both regular UO and classic UO, however there is a glitch in the matrix.

You are a roleplayer Martyna.

It dosen't feel like you really played beta and on, on yes the pricks ruled, but it never kept anyone I know from achieving their full in game potential where it mattered.

The way you spew words violently and I dare to say toughtlessly of your fellow avatar feelings is downright aggravating coming from you.

People have feelings for classic UO.

Tell us one thing, what difference does it make ? That you actually participate in this nostalgic, logically flawed (according to you) argument...

There I hand back your logic to you, it serves you ; that is great.

But don't be so heartless, and how uncompassionate you can be for those young jerks who have obviously abused your and your friends.

But where does the frustration come from really ? From those pathetic, meaningless gankers, or from roleplayers like you being unable to pressure the developpers to change platform entirely to exclude bugs and take the time to give your back your money's worth.

You are frustrated because you aint getting back this money, the guardian pockets it and laughs.

He won't do anything about me saying the truth about it, he is oblivious to any of you now, and he knows it.

What will you do ? Sue him ?

See that contract you signed before you played ? did you read it avatar ?

Times up.

I was myself both the noob and then I gradually became a pathetic hacker jerk.

I am what you seemingly try to hate without success by not aiming where it hurts... how many countless nights did I openly hack everyone in sight in the hope that only one GM would dare to approach me.

I did it everyday in the open and waited for the GMs to get me.

I was a seer and a roleplayer back then before it all happened, I was part of the atlantic mage tower and helped new players everyday for this game.

I was a companion, I was also a brainbug.

Can you imagine once again that you have to organise into player cities because it is war in the real world.

Yes, reality.

War, now.

....


You are drifting Martyna and noone will stop this truth from being told.

I had my roleplay crushed and trashed like it meant nothing because a few even worse jerks that you ignore and love by your inadmission of their existance had decided to make money out of the game, effectively transforming it into a monster, not quite a game anymore.

But you won't admit it avatar, because of the children. You think it will protect the children...

Back in 1999 when I was part of the zog cabal and seeing them perform rituals based on the real kabbala and I spare you the details.

I tought it meant something, in my heart, I was who I was in the game, because I could lose everything.

But I didn't lose myself, that is the concept of the genius behind the classic mindset which none of you can counter.

You might lose all you own, but you learn and when someone really defeated you, not in a gank you could choose to let your character die.

It would thus pass to the history of the game and live eternally.

I don't know why but I have this intuition that tells me you looked at brad pitt in troy when he said his magic words and your eyes were all over his smoothness and purpose when he said the famous quote from the piece :

Achilles: I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again.

Or maybe not, but anyhow it's war ; will you deny this ?

So it is above, so it is below.

 

[Aragon100]

Sorry, but that’s complete hyperbole. Where are these masses waiting for a classic shard? All we EVER see is the proponents of such a shard making wild claims that hundreds of people are salivating at the thought of paying to play a ‘classic’ version of a 13 year old game.

Either these people have found other games to sate their virtual bloodlust, or more likely, they simply don’t exist

As i said i have played MMO games during these 7 years after AoS and those games were much alike classic UO. Both Darkfall and Mortal Online were games that had alot of resemblance to classic UO.

The hype for those games were very high and the numbers of followers for those games were many hundred of thousands of players.

Just take Darkfall that had +350000 following the game. So there is a interest for games with a gameplay like classic UO. All of those that had interest in Darkfall or Mortal Online would not play a classic UO but enough of them would. Those players would keep such a shard alive and most likely more populated then any of today UO shards.

So claiming there isnt enough interest for a classic UO shard is not right. Problem as i see it is if developers have enough manpower to create a classic shard.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Just take Darkfall that had +350000 following the game. So there is a interest for games with a gameplay like classic UO. All of those that had interest in Darkfall or Mortal Online would not play a classic UO but enough of them would. Those players would keep such a shard alive and most likely more populated then any of today UO shards.

You think Darkfall and Mortal Online players will come to UO? Really? Why give up a game with modern 3D graphics (Yes, graphics ARE important to modern gamers, so lets not go down that inane road.) AND the style of play they like to go back in time 20 years to 90's era graphics?

Modern gamers look at UO and laugh. They laugh at the ancient graphics and they laugh at the people like us addicted to playing it.

A friend of a friend asked me what I played when he heard I was a gamer. I said UO. After the stunned look wore off, he said he was surprised that it was still around. Then he asked which 3D engine they were using now. It went downhill from there.

 

[MrWilliams]

Believe it or not, but not all gamers are looking for vacuous, eye candy. Some would like a game with meaning, player diversity, community and freedom. A game where you can actually make a difference to the shard be that positive or negative. I've played numerous MMO's and still find 2d Classic UO to be the most immersive and rewarding gaming experience.

Yes a classic shard will not attract your average mainstream gamer but that isn't its target audience and I think you vastly underestimate the size of the community that still longs for Classic UO.

 

[Alvinho]

We asked for it...we didn't get it...no Classic Shard.

I would like year round McRib sandwiches a customer demands it but it just ain't gonna happen

 

[Meat Elemental]

I would like year round McRib sandwiches a customer demands it but it just ain't gonna happen

Yeah those McRibs are great! That's it i'm leaving UO unless they bring back the McRib! They have untill Jan 1...

 

[Vlaude]

Yeah those McRibs are great! That's it i'm leaving UO unless they bring back the McRib! They have untill Jan 1...

I rarely eat fast food (as in once or twice a year. if that). But the McRib is a good example of supply and demand economics. People have demanded it to the point where McDonald's keeps bringing it back (most recently November 2 - December 5 2010). Read the history section here, McRib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. No, it hasn't been brought back permanently (except in Germany where demand is high enough), but that doesn't mean it never will be. You might want to choose a different product to debate with because this one goes against what you are implying (that making a demand does not bring in the supply). Also, if you're going to troll, at least be funny...

 

[Meat Elemental]

Nevermind...found a McRib behind to couch. And btw I am for a classic shard, but I will never play on it.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

I have to say...

Since the "Classic" era's been gone for, what, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve years (depending upon your unique definition of "Classic," that is)...

I'm surprised it took anyone this long to cancel their account over the lack of a "Classic" shard. I mean, no offense, but nothing like dragging your feet. "EA, if you don't give me a Classic Shard, I'll only pay for another eight years! Take that, you inglorious bastards!"

 

[Vlaude]

I have to say...

Since the "Classic" era's been gone for, what, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve years (depending upon your unique definition of "Classic," that is)...

I'm surprised it took anyone this long to cancel their account over the lack of a "Classic" shard. I mean, no offense, but nothing like dragging your feet. "EA, if you don't give me a Classic Shard, I'll only pay for another eight years! Take that, you inglorious bastards!"

Eh, for me at least I canceled not long after AoS because I didn't like the changes. I came back a few months ago after reading Cal's statement about the possibility of a classic shard to show my support for the idea. I may be a counted a fool for it, but really that's more on Cal than on me at this point. You know the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Now past producers may have mentioned it as a possibility but never delivered, but as far as I'm aware this is Cal's first time bringing it up. I thought I'd give Cal a chance to honor his word of at least telling us what would happen by year end. I may only be one person, and I can't speak for everyone who is asking for one, but that's how it has gone for me.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Eh, for me at least I canceled not long after AoS because I didn't like the changes. I came back a few months ago after reading Cal's statement about the possibility of a classic shard to show my support for the idea. I may be a counted a fool for it, but really that's more on Cal than on me at this point. You know the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

In all honesty -- and not trying to belittle your support for a classic shard -- it would probably have done better to write letters to Mythic, called them, whatever and maybe struck up a realistic campaign in support of a Classic Shard. The problem with simply reactivating your account is that they'd have no idea that's why you reactivated it.

Now past producers may have mentioned it as a possibility but never delivered, but as far as I'm aware this is Cal's first time bringing it up. I thought I'd give Cal a chance to honor his word of at least telling us what would happen by year end. I may only be one person, and I can't speak for everyone who is asking for one, but that's how it has gone for me.

Well, truthfully, from where I sit, shame on Cal for ever broaching the subject in a manner that even suggested it. Every other producer and development team before him knew and understood that you don't look to roll the clock backward to improve your game. This isn't to say no one enjoys the concept of a Classic Shard, simply that at this point it would have to be its own unique intellectual property, developed separately from Ultima Online, not in tandem with it. Sure, you could learn from the past and implement old ideas into the current core, but you can't just take a game and make two different rulesets for it and hope it works.

No offense to anyone on Siege Perilous, but they're the case and point as to what happens when the same team is responsible for both game concepts. One gets full attention, the other gets largely ignored for months and years at a time.

If Cal, Mythic, or EA were truly serious about a Classic Shard, they'd have to invest a bit of money. Set up a smaller, separate team that would handle it, and leave its legacy to someone else. Sure, they could share art teams (heck, as I've been to understand, DAoC and WAR share art teams with UO), but by and large, they're two completely different games at this point.

The other issue to tackle is the financial viability of it. Hell, if you ask me, Ultima Online Classic would be the perfect thing to take, hand to a new Development Team, and make it free to play. My fear, of course, is that given EA's history of mismanagement, eventually the teams would be merged again ("It's the same product, isn't it?") and someone would then say, "F2P worked for UOC, so it should work for UO," and blind, sweeping decisions would be made.

At any rate... Sadly, any attempt to make a Classic Shard (at present) by the current UO team would do two horrible things: (1) it would pull away from core UO (yes, Morgana, I hear you saying, "Good, current UO sucks anyway..."), and (2) it would be implemented poorly.

Just random thoughts on the situation...

 

[Cailleach]

Some points I've noticed, having struggled my way through a few of these threads now. And, just for the record, no, I didn't play pre AoS, and, by the sounds of it, I don't think I would have wanted to. My husband, however, did. He still plays Fel - but also plays Tram, with every sign of enjoyment of both, just in different ways.

1) I'm not opposed to a 'classic shard' as long as I'm not expected to play it. However, there needs, as with any new business venture, to be market research. There's no point having the thing if only 50 people turn up to play on it.

2) You guys need to put your heads together and decide on a definition of classic shard. At the moment, there seems to be a different definition per two or three people, if not more. You need to pick one and stick with it. As it stands, the devs wouldn't have a hope in hell of creating something that the majority want to play.

3) Whilst I understand your desire to recapture the joy of something that folks clearly enjoyed very much, it needs to be understood that you can never go back, only forward. You are NEVER going to have the same now as it was then. Anyone expecting it is not only unrealistic but is going to be very disappointed indeed.

I've been watching these, for want of a better way of putting it 'circular bickers' for a while. I find it fascinating that there are so many here that, whilst clearly young in terms of years, are old in terms of attitude. It reminds me of nothing so much as a group of people in their 80's bemoaning the loss of the world of their youth.

 

[Vlaude]

In all honesty -- and not trying to belittle your support for a classic shard -- it would probably have done better to write letters to Mythic, called them, whatever and maybe struck up a realistic campaign in support of a Classic Shard. The problem with simply reactivating your account is that they'd have no idea that's why you reactivated it.

You'd be right except that I wrote to Cal telling him why I came back. Nevertheless, I'd be lying if I said I didn't have other reasons to come back also. I was curious to see who still played it from my old friends, most of them are gone but a few still play and I even made a few new friends so I don't see it as a waste of money. However, I stick to principle, and the principle here is that is that it was mentioned as a possibility, whether it really is/was a possibility or not is another debate, but it WAS mentioned as one. I was never looking to launch a classic shard campaign, however I participate in these threads to show my support for the idea and can't help myself from engaging in some of the debate because I know stratics is read by some of the devs.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I only reactivated my account for one month during shard of the dead and really I didn't regret it, while it was far from classic it had some fun moments minus the glass swords.

In any event this thread I think has run it's course, and most anyone with a functioning brain has realized long ago that classic was never happening and left accordingly.

I'm not mad at EA over it, no matter how we feel when it's all boiled down, it would have been a leap of faith at best for EA to pull the trigger on this idea. The changes have been in place long enough that all of us should be over it by now.

It's fine to keep memories of those better times but to keep repeating the same request, knowing that it won't happen is borderline insane and a bit obsessive where video games are concerned.

I mean really how long has this campaign been going on with no real sign of change behind it? As much as I think HD is a propaganda machine I have to agree that it was pretty much always leading the horse with the carrot, if you can keep those few hopefuls going with vague statements then kudos to you for making a profit off of people who by all rights should have left long ago.

So in the end playing a free shard, or supporting one of the new games that are trying to emulate classic UO are the options.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

You'd be right except that I wrote to Cal telling him why I came back.

I'm glad to hear that... I also hope that others did too.

Nevertheless, I'd be lying if I said I didn't have other reasons to come back also. I was curious to see who still played it from my old friends, most of them are gone but a few still play and I even made a few new friends so I don't see it as a waste of money. However, I stick to principle, and the principle here is that is that it was mentioned as a possibility, whether it really is/was a possibility or not is another debate, but it WAS mentioned as one. I was never looking to launch a classic shard campaign, however I participate in these threads to show my support for the idea and can't help myself from engaging in some of the debate because I know stratics is read by some of the devs.

Well, I don't deny it was mentioned as a possibility... and in truth, I've voiced that I'm not against the concept of a classic shard, just against it drawing away from development of the core game (which, as we saw with just UO:HS, would clearly happen). Only way I see that happening is spinning it off as its own game and letting another team handle it -- and if Mythic can spin that and make it happen and thinks its viable, I'm 100% behind it! I just... frankly... don't see it happening. But, I've been wrong before.

 

[Vlaude]

I only reactivated my account for one month during shard of the dead and really I didn't regret it, while it was far from classic it had some fun moments minus the glass swords.

In any event this thread I think has run it's course, and most anyone with a functioning brain has realized long ago that classic was never happening and left accordingly.

I'm not mad at EA over it, no matter how we feel when it's all boiled down, it would have been a leap of faith at best for EA to pull the trigger on this idea. The changes have been in place long enough that all of us should be over it by now.

It's fine to keep memories of those better times but to keep repeating the same request, knowing that it won't happen is borderline insane and a bit obsessive where video games are concerned.

I mean really how long has this campaign been going on with no real sign of change behind it? As much as I think HD is a propaganda machine I have to agree that it was pretty much always leading the horse with the carrot, if you can keep those few hopefuls going with vague statements then kudos to you for making a profit off of people who by all rights should have left long ago.

So in the end playing a free shard, or supporting one of the new games that are trying to emulate classic UO are the options.

So are you saying my brain isn't functioning properly because I believed the producer when he said it was a possibility? I think my (highly ranked) university would have some disagreements with that. Sure, there is no honor among thieves but until someone proves Cal is a liar or a thief I'll believe him when he says it is being considered. Rather than resorting to insults, speculations, and trolling let's stick to facts and principles.

 

[copycon]

Well, I don't deny it was mentioned as a possibility... and in truth, I've voiced that I'm not against the concept of a classic shard, just against it drawing away from development of the core game (which, as we saw with just UO:HS, would clearly happen). Only way I see that happening is spinning it off as its own game and letting another team handle it -- and if Mythic can spin that and make it happen and thinks its viable, I'm 100% behind it! I just... frankly... don't see it happening. But, I've been wrong before.

Agreed. I would like to see a Classic Shard, but I understand the need to appeal to the existing subscribers. It would be a mistake to abandon existing efforts in favor of developing a Classic Shard, regardless of public opinion.

But, if that is truly the case, they need to say it and let the topic rest. It doesn't have to be a long winded explanation or need any legal jargon applied. Simply by saying that it is not possible because of other obligations would suffice in my opinion. Furthermore, by continuing to keep the door open for no reason they are being unprofessional and disrespectful to the community.

 

[Vlaude]

I'm glad to hear that... I also hope that others did too.

Well, I don't deny it was mentioned as a possibility... and in truth, I've voiced that I'm not against the concept of a classic shard, just against it drawing away from development of the core game (which, as we saw with just UO:HS, would clearly happen). Only way I see that happening is spinning it off as its own game and letting another team handle it -- and if Mythic can spin that and make it happen and thinks its viable, I'm 100% behind it! I just... frankly... don't see it happening. But, I've been wrong before.

Well I'm also not denying that it probably won't happen based on recent past quotes from people who know things. I just thought I'd show up and show my support just in case. I haven't been following UO closely at all since AoS so I'm just going off what Cal said on this one. However, based on all the complaints on here about other things "said" I have to agree, the future on this issue does not look bright.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

So are you saying my brain isn't functioning properly because I believed the producer when he said it was a possibility? I think my (highly ranked) university would have some disagreements with that. Sure, there is no honor among thieves but until someone proves Cal is a liar or a thief I'll believe him when he says it is being considered. Rather than resorting to insults, speculations, and trolling let's stick to facts and principles.

I'm not insulting you, I'm saying that you have in all likelihood been suckered. You want to stick to the facts then this will be a very short discussion, the fact is that there is no classic shard and no indication that there will be, all you have to hang onto is an "I'll look into it and get back to you"

 

[Vlaude]

I'm not insulting you, I'm saying that you have in all likelihood been suckered. You want to stick to the facts then this will be a very short discussion, the fact is that there is no classic shard and no indication that there will be, all you have to hang onto is an "I'll look into it and get back to you"

I can't say that all evidence suggests that you aren't right. But like I said earlier, being suckered in this case is more on Cal than on me. Now... if Cal makes a year end statement that it will take another year of consideration to figure this out and I stick around hung up on that then I'd really be a fool. But coming back for a few months to show support for the idea and having some fun with old friends I really don't consider to be a waste of time or money.

 

[copycon]

I'm not insulting you, I'm saying that you have in all likelihood been suckered. You want to stick to the facts then this will be a very short discussion, the fact is that there is no classic shard and no indication that there will be, all you have to hang onto is an "I'll look into it and get back to you"

The simple fact that he said that he hoped to have an answer by 12/31 is enough for most. However, that also imposes a deadline in the minds of people who are paying attention, even without saying "there will be".

Also, if the current UO producer is in the business of "suckering" people, then any future development for UO has much bigger problems...

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

It likely isn't intentional on Cals part actually, I would say that Cal gets more or less the same run around as everyone else, he can only ask the people in charge of those decisions and they probably say something along the lines of we will look into it and get back to you later.

From the interviews I have seen with Cal he seems competent but consider the UO team isn't that big to begin with and they always seem to have a full plate, being a UO developer with the limited resources they have must be quite Sisyphean at times.

 

[copycon]

It likely isn't intentional on Cals part actually, I would say that Cal gets more or less the same run around as everyone else, he can only ask the people in charge of those decisions and they probably say something along the lines of we will look into it and get back to you later.

From the interviews I have seen with Cal he seems competent but consider the UO team isn't that big to begin with and they always seem to have a full plate, being a UO developer with the limited resources they have must be quite Sisyphean at times.

Agreed. Cal only has so much power to make decisions...

But, it's still his responsibility to provide an answer. If he can't do it then it is his responsibility to say so.

 

[Vlaude]

It likely isn't intentional on Cals part actually, I would say that Cal gets more or less the same run around as everyone else, he can only ask the people in charge of those decisions and they probably say something along the lines of we will look into it and get back to you later.

From the interviews I have seen with Cal he seems competent but consider the UO team isn't that big to begin with and they always seem to have a full plate, being a UO developer with the limited resources they have must be quite Sisyphean at times.

Intentions aren't the issue here. Cal made the statement as the producer. While his reputation may not matter to most people (which isn't to say it shouldn't) he puts it on the line when he issues out a statement with a deadline to people he does business with (or hopes to do business with) being customers. Now, if Cal announces that there will be no classic shard that does not damage his reputation as long as he gives a reason for why not. However, if he doesn't stick to a deadline or just says "NO, haha!" then why shouldn't it damage it?