Merely "talking" to Fishmongers drops one's reputation with them ?

[popps]

There is a thread ongoing in the fishermen's Forum which came as a total shocker to me.

From a couple of threads there are suggestions that "merely talking" to a fishmonger while a quest is ongoing but not completed drops one's own reputation and standing with them.

Excuse me ??????????

I can understand rejecting or refusing a quest will get one's own standing with them to drop but merely and simply talking with them while a quest is still in the making and ongoing ??

This cannot be.

It sounds to me so incredibly and utterly absurd that I can't possibly think it is working this way.

Yet, my experience leads me to think the same.......

I have NEVER EVER refused an order and done all that are thrown at me.

Yet, I keep getting 1 liner orders a go-go......

The only logical explaination I can think of is that I DO TALK to fishmongers a whole lot.

Every time I hit a port I check with them and sometimes more than once to just make sure whether or not they have orders for me.

I do NOT refuse orders but I do double click and talk to fishmongers always.
For example, the sub server with Jhelom, Skara and Trinsic sometimes I run it twice or 3 times in a row so to check and double check whether they may have orders for me.

I can't believe that merely talking to fishmongers drops my reputation and yet, this must be the one explaination for why I am getting so many 1 liners even though I have done tons of quests and never ever refused 1.......

At this point I would REALLY like to know how it was coded because I think we deserve some explaination to what is going on.

One thing is hard, another is something which makes no sense, at least to us, players.

 

[SashaSeeks]

That certainly seems to be the case. But also I don't believe that refusing a quest should knock your reputation down either. Canceling I could understand, but not by simply refusing one, especially since the quest is offered to you automatically just by turning something in, its not like you can look to see what the quest is calling for and then decide to cancel it.

 

[Spellbound]

I don't believe reputation from finishing consecutive quests are being saved for my character. I have been doing one quest at a time for days and since the last publish, I am decreasing in reputation without cancelling any quests. Yesterday had a 5 parter, today's highest was a 4 parter, just turned in a 3 parter, and just now got a fishmonger asking for only 10 uncommon shiners! This is so depressing...how can High Seas be considered a "booster"? It's definitely a DOWNER!!! Please fix it.

 

[covert]

Something is fishy...

 

[SashaSeeks]

Spellbound, see the Thread Treasure Hunters/Fishing "obtaining the rare powerscroll" Umfufu sums things up pretty good. Once you do reach 20 on a certain type of fish( unless you had a reputation loss) the quantities for that fish will go from, 20, then 15, then 10, back to 20, 15, 10.... consistantly, unless you lost reputation which puts you back down to a 5. Once down to a 5 quantity of fish, then you have to build back up to the 20, then it will repeat the above pattern. As far as which fish your quest will contain seems to be completely random. Reputation may play a role in the lines of fish, but it is hard to tell, myself I get anything from one liners to 6 liners, but I had started recieving 6 liners long ago, I can turn in a 6 line one time, and the next quest may be for a 1 liner. But it was just recently that I noticed I was starting to get orders for 5 fish. Which lead to the discussion on reputations, and different ways that we seem to be losing it.

 

[Snakeman]

Like I had mentioned in a prev post, having "Reputation" loss is a bunch of bunk. We do not loose "reputation" if we refuse a Smithing/Tailoring BOD so why in #$*@ should we loose "reputation" here. It's bad enought running all over the sea's, land masses for fish, then to add on loss because you don't want to do a quest... It's absurd IMO

 

[It Lives]

Oh god I would hate this to be the case, all that time wasted Grrrr...

 

[pacific cruiser]

and worse yet i have not seen anything on test regarding the fix or anything mentioned in uo herold or messana or the devs about this either!!!how long is it gonna take for them to fix this............

 

[G.v.P]

Let's face it. MIB loot is great. Scalis is great. Corgul is great. Pirates are great.

Fishmonger quests are total bull****.

Eh. 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

But once MIB loot was released I found no reason to do Fishmonger quests. Hell, 120s might not even drop, at current. Worse than getting a Val hammer.

 

[pacific cruiser]

totally agree with ya on that..

 

[Petra Fyde]

My suspicion is that reputation may be saved per monger.
So - if you've worked up to, say, 20 cobia with one monger, you may still be on 15 with another.
Arriving at a monger for whom you have a delivery but without that delivery completed appears to count as a failed quest, reducing your reputation with that monger, and for those particular fish types.
I'm not sure on the refusing the quest theory, but I hope not. I only take quests on Siege when I have sufficient stocks to be sure of completing it before I log off, dry docking the ship between. I left my ship in the water only once, it got scuppered.

I haven't been doing quests as intensely as some people, I just got my +5 on Europa and am working towards it on Siege. What I did was, if I had an order for, say, Trinsic. Then I wouldn't speak to the Trinsic Monger till I had that order completed.

 

[popps]

That certainly seems to be the case. But also I don't believe that refusing a quest should knock your reputation down either. Canceling I could understand, but not by simply refusing one, especially since the quest is offered to you automatically just by turning something in, its not like you can look to see what the quest is calling for and then decide to cancel it.

Well, on refusing an order I need to disagree.

It has to have penalties because otherwise, players would simply just discard the low end orders and keep trying the RNG for the larger ones or, keep refusing order that have crabs and lobsters in them for those that have fish. No, there have to be the same penalty for cancelling AND refusing an order, IMHO.

Not dong this could be largely abused, I think.

Larger orders should be only obtained once a solid reputation has been built doing the good AND the bad orders, not just the good ones.......

As in regards the fact that currently we cannot see what order we have been given before we accept it, that is true, but I am not sure whether it will stay like that. And even if it did, then what is the point of refusing a quest when we do not even know what we are being asked ?

But as I said, the main argument is avoiding players to reject quests which are low end to try get more quests high end "if", the system will be changed to one where players will get to see what order they are being given.........

That's how I see it.

 

[popps]

Something is fishy...

That is why I would like to know "how" it was coded, because many reports from players just do not add up.

I want the fishing orders' engine to be tough, require work, dedication but I want it to make sense and be consistent with players fishing activity, not get players into confusion without knowing what to do because their fishing efforts just receive contradicting results........

 

[popps]

Like I had mentioned in a prev post, having "Reputation" loss is a bunch of bunk. We do not loose "reputation" if we refuse a Smithing/Tailoring BOD so why in #$*@ should we loose "reputation" here. It's bad enought running all over the sea's, land masses for fish, then to add on loss because you don't want to do a quest... It's absurd IMO

Fishing for fish is easier than trap fishing for crabs and lobsters.

Currently, what slows down fishing orders and so helps maintaining fishing advancement a conquest to be made (i.e. a prestigious achievement...) is orders that contain named crabs and lobsters.

If players were to be able to drop quests with no reputation penalties, they would most likely only pick the ones they want with mosthly fish, no named crabs or lobsters and most likely discard the low end orders and try the RNG enough times to pull up the high end ones for their level thus, advancing faster.

No thanks.

I cannot support a system that would produce a mass of Legendary fisherman in a week or two. I'd rather prefer have a system where having someone reaching Legendary fishing means something and is a real achievement that requires dedication, work and effort.

At least, that is my point of view.

 

[popps]

and worse yet i have not seen anything on test regarding the fix or anything mentioned in uo herold or messana or the devs about this either!!!how long is it gonna take for them to fix this............

Well, regardless a fix which I can understand it may take time and work, especially since we want it to be done well, I would at the very least like to hear from the Developers whether as of now, players playing the fishimongers' quests are wasting their time or not.

I mean, at the very least issue a WARNING to us players that if we keep spending our time on fishmongers' Quests we are doing it at our own risk and time waste expense, because the work we are doing is not granting us proper reputation advancement due to bugs or whatever or, that there are acts while doing the orders like for example innocent "talking" to fishmongers with pending orders ongoing, that will erase all or most of our reputation and bring us back to square one.......

I mean, that a fix takes time I can understand and not want to complain about it.

But PLEASE, let us know at the very least what is wrong and what we must be carefull NOT TO DO in order not to waste away all of the hard work done to build our reputation with the fishmongers.

I think that as players and paying customers we deserve knowing this, at least.

Or don't we ?

 

[popps]

What I did was, if I had an order for, say, Trinsic. Then I wouldn't speak to the Trinsic Monger till I had that order completed.

And that is my problem.......

I had no idea this had penalties (still do not know for sure and WOULD LIKE TO know...) and so I have been talking left and right, up and down to fishmonger all over the place had I not done their orders or not.

I did this, to make sure they did not have anything to offer to me.

I do orders as they come, and since the order lists ONLY where I am supposed to deliver it, but NOT where I picked it up from, I forget my origin port.

So, while I have the order ongoing and working on filling it up, I may go back to the port where I was given it, without me remembering that this was the port I had been given that order (the crate does not say Origin of the order....), and "just in case" and to make sure I interrogate again the fishmonger to see whether there is any order that I can be given.

So, I ask a LOT fishmongers and often they give me the response that I still have an order to finish up.

Now, I am worried that this talking is pushing me backwards.....

I have never dropped or refused any order I was given, always accepted all of them and finished all of them.

I have many baits in the 700 range charges and closing to 800 which means I have done my good share of quests and yet, I am getting 1-liner orders a go-go which hints me that I do am going backwards in my reputation.

Now, if I am accepting any and all orders I have been given, and I finish them all, then WHAT ON EARTH is getting me to drop my reputation so that I am getting all these 1-liners ?

The only explaination I can possibly think of is my talking to the fishmongers.......

 

[Umfufu]

My suspicion is that reputation may be saved per monger.
So - if you've worked up to, say, 20 cobia with one monger, you may still be on 15 with another.
Arriving at a monger for whom you have a delivery but without that delivery completed appears to count as a failed quest, reducing your reputation with that monger, and for those particular fish types.
I'm not sure on the refusing the quest theory, but I hope not. I only take quests on Siege when I have sufficient stocks to be sure of completing it before I log off, dry docking the ship between. I left my ship in the water only once, it got scuppered.

I haven't been doing quests as intensely as some people, I just got my +5 on Europa and am working towards it on Siege. What I did was, if I had an order for, say, Trinsic. Then I wouldn't speak to the Trinsic Monger till I had that order completed.

According to my findings I posted in the Monger Reputation thread in the fishing section, the counting goes per type of fish, not at what Monger you get the delivery.

 

[Umfufu]

Well, on refusing an order I need to disagree.

It has to have penalties because otherwise, players would simply just discard the low end orders and keep trying the RNG for the larger ones or, keep refusing order that have crabs and lobsters in them for those that have fish. No, there have to be the same penalty for cancelling AND refusing an order, IMHO.

Not dong this could be largely abused, I think.

Larger orders should be only obtained once a solid reputation has been built doing the good AND the bad orders, not just the good ones.......

As in regards the fact that currently we cannot see what order we have been given before we accept it, that is true, but I am not sure whether it will stay like that. And even if it did, then what is the point of refusing a quest when we do not even know what we are being asked ?

But as I said, the main argument is avoiding players to reject quests which are low end to try get more quests high end "if", the system will be changed to one where players will get to see what order they are being given.........

That's how I see it.

Only on aborting ...
Why ?

Because you get offered a quest automaticly without requesting it for yourself, meaning once you turned in your very first Monger Quests you would be stuck forever with one crate in your hold.
Means you cannot dry dock your ship ever without taking a penalty.
And at offer of the quest you cannot see what the delivery is, so I see no harm in refusing and unasked offer with no penalty.

 

[popps]

Only on aborting ...
Why ?

Because you get offered a quest automaticly without requesting it for yourself, meaning once you turned in your very first Monger Quests you would be stuck forever with one crate in your hold.
Means you cannot dry dock your ship ever without taking a penalty.
And at offer of the quest you cannot see what the delivery is, so I see no harm in refusing and unasked offer with no penalty.

Well, that depends whether they will keep the system as such, or change it.

"If" the system is changed so that we will be able to "see" what order we are being offered, well, than I must say that ALSO rejecting an order will need to bring penalties in order for the system not to be abused.

So, it really depends on whether orders offered will keep being "in the dark", without us knowing what we are being offered, or whether it will be changed to something else where we will be able to see what the order we are being asked is, before we can accept it.

 

[SashaSeeks]

There is a difference between refusing to accept a quest and cancelling a quest. Cancelling a quest, you get a chance to see what the quest was, and then decide to cancel, I can see a penalty for this.

Refusing a quest, you have no idea what they want to give you, you just simply do not want to take it for what ever reason. You may want to dry dock your boat, you may not want to go to that port, whatever... But you should not be penalized for not accepting a quest, when you did not even ask to take one, as it is automatically offered to you, when turning something in.

 

[Mark_Mythic]

Talking with fishmongers does not affect your reputation. Refusing quests from fishmongers does not affect your reputation with them. If it does, it's a bug.

The only thing that hurts your rep is dumping their crates overboard.

Your reputation is shared among all fishmongers. For a small peek at the design, as your character gets orders for fish, there is a record of those fish attached to your character. That list has data attached to it like how many times you have completed orders with that fish. When you talk to another fishmonger, he can check that list. That list is used to calculate your "reputation".

Please keep in mind that reputation is not actually an integer, the design goal was to emulate running a pro fishing business. No matter who you are in the fishing world, sometimes you get small orders. If you turned in every possible fish 6 times each in various orders, your chance to get a 6 line order would be 1/6.

With that in mind, certain rewards are only available to small orders and certain rewards are only available in large orders. An effort was made to make the small order rewards valuable but give incentive to advance. Large orders don't just give you the same stuff in larger quantities.

Each fish increments or decrements in quantities seperately. If you have done a ton of orders but have never rolled a cobia before, then it will be an order for 10 cobia.

The rewards for the fishing quest are designed for people who like to fish. The "real" money in the fishing quest are the baits that make catching enchanted fish a reasonable goal. Once people start figuring out what the new fish pies do and how they stack with other buffs, I expect you will make a lot of coin fishing them up.

 

[SashaSeeks]

IT IS A MAJOR HUGE GIANT BUG THEN, PLZ SQUASH IT!!!!!

 

[pacific cruiser]

MARK SQUASH THIS BUG INTO THE NETHER VOID PLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZ

 

[SashaSeeks]

Mark Mythic, Plz refer to our threads in Professional forums/treasure hunters/fishing..... "obtaining the rare powerscroll" and "monger reputation". We even have people that have done spread sheets! Something is seriously wrong!!!

 

[popps]

Talking with fishmongers does not affect your reputation. Refusing quests from fishmongers does not affect your reputation with them. If it does, it's a bug.

The only thing that hurts your rep is dumping their crates overboard.

Your reputation is shared among all fishmongers. For a small peek at the design, as your character gets orders for fish, there is a record of those fish attached to your character. That list has data attached to it like how many times you have completed orders with that fish. When you talk to another fishmonger, he can check that list. That list is used to calculate your "reputation".

Please keep in mind that reputation is not actually an integer, the design goal was to emulate running a pro fishing business. No matter who you are in the fishing world, sometimes you get small orders. If you turned in every possible fish 6 times each in various orders, your chance to get a 6 line order would be 1/6.

With that in mind, certain rewards are only available to small orders and certain rewards are only available in large orders. An effort was made to make the small order rewards valuable but give incentive to advance. Large orders don't just give you the same stuff in larger quantities.

Each fish increments or decrements in quantities seperately. If you have done a ton of orders but have never rolled a cobia before, then it will be an order for 10 cobia.

The rewards for the fishing quest are designed for people who like to fish. The "real" money in the fishing quest are the baits that make catching enchanted fish a reasonable goal. Once people start figuring out what the new fish pies do and how they stack with other buffs, I expect you will make a lot of coin fishing them up.

Well, thanks for the comprehensive explaination and reassurance that merely talking to the fishmongers (or refusing quests) do not hurt reputation.

As in regards with the explaination of how orders are offered, thanks for that also.
One note though...... you mention os fishmongers being connected to the fishermen database of "fished up" fish which I find as a very good and clever thing.

The observation though, is that several fishermen (myself included) have experienced repeated orders for certain fish (or crabs or lobsters) going on for quite a while.

From your explaination, over a time period a fisherman stock should "even out" since fishmongers should ask for orders of fish/crabs/lobsters which are low in the fisherman database.

Well, for example currently I am being asked repeated orders that contain "shad" and I have a zero stock of them while for other fish I have a stock of like 200 of them.....

If I should be asked orders for fish/crabs/lobsters which I am low at delivering (meaning I must have a high stock of them aside since I fish them up but do not put them in orders...) why is it my experience the opposite, which is that I keep being asked for fish/crabs/lobsters which I do not have or am low at ?

This part I do not understand and makes me wonder how much the RNG has a part in the equation.......

 

[Mark_Mythic]

Well, thanks for the comprehensive explaination and reassurance that merely talking to the fishmongers (or refusing quests) do not hurt reputation.

As in regards with the explaination of how orders are offered, thanks for that also.
One note though...... you mention os fishmongers being connected to the fishermen database of "fished up" fish which I find as a very good and clever thing.

The observation though, is that several fishermen (myself included) have experienced repeated orders for certain fish (or crabs or lobsters) going on for quite a while.

From your explaination, over a time period a fisherman stock should "even out" since fishmongers should ask for orders of fish/crabs/lobsters which are low in the fisherman database.

Well, for example currently I am being asked repeated orders that contain "shad" and I have a zero stock of them while for other fish I have a stock of like 200 of them.....

If I should be asked orders for fish/crabs/lobsters which I am low at delivering (meaning I must have a high stock of them aside since I fish them up but do not put them in orders...) why is it my experience the opposite, which is that I keep being asked for fish/crabs/lobsters which I do not have or am low at ?

This part I do not understand and makes me wonder how much the RNG has a part in the equation.......

The choice of fish is completely random. You are just having a run in with the RNG.

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

We're working on an idea of what to do with the common lobsters and crabs, we are looking at adding them to community collections. I also want to add some recipes that use them.

Here's something you might want to know. The list of fish expands when you get a skill above 105. Thus, you will be seeing small orders again. The fish that are added are the dungeon fish. The fish required for this quest system fall into one of 4 categories... fish that must be caught near the shore, fish that must be caught in deep water, fish that must be caught in dungeons and fish that must be caught with a trap.

Since the chance to get big orders increases with the number of successful deliveries of one fish, working with a smaller list is advantagous.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

I realize I'm probably going into too much detail here but it seems that I have not gone into enough detail before today and some of you were getting the wrong idea.

BTW, I have looked at the code and I can tell you for sure that talking to the fishmonger is not causing the bug, so talk to them as much as you want. That is not to say there isn't a bug, I'm still tracking it down and will fix it asap now that I am aware of it.

I think I know what is causing it and if I'm right it would generally affect players who have been doing the quest for a while and rarely affect players just starting out... which I why I didn't catch it before now.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[Storm]

Thank you ! for clarification! One question though is it a must to have dungeon fish in the order to get a 110 scroll and if so how do we get that when you can only get 105's ? or is the idea to get many 105s and have to combine them?

 

[pacific cruiser]

thx for the quick reponse MArk plz plz plz look into it, but as Umfufu stated in the fishing thread a lot of us are into the over 500 quest area and have not even seen a 110 scroll .as umfufu, i also had to combine 105's to get a 110 powerscoll.. i think this is a major problem... im into my 100th quest at the dungeon fish quest area and i have not seen any scolls or anything better

as you stated ..
trapped item are doubles and dungeon are triple to the rewards recieved at all. example of what we are getting is...
20 crab gives you a bait with 10 uses
20 shallow fish gives you a bait with 20 uses
20 deepwater fish gives you a bait for 30 uses


so hows does that reflect what you have just posted as being double points.. thank you for being more clear on whats going on and i dont think you can be over clear.. the more info we have the more comfortable we feel and can post more info for you to see from all of us that are in the 500 plus quest stage and stuck and getting frustrated..

 

[SashaSeeks]

The choice of fish is completely random. You are just having a run in with the RNG.

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

We're working on an idea of what to do with the common lobsters and crabs, we are looking at adding them to community collections. I also want to add some recipes that use them.

Here's something you might want to know. The list of fish expands when you get a skill above 105. Thus, you will be seeing small orders again. The fish that are added are the dungeon fish. The fish required for this quest system fall into one of 4 categories... fish that must be caught near the shore, fish that must be caught in deep water, fish that must be caught in dungeons and fish that must be caught with a trap.

Since the chance to get big orders increases with the number of successful deliveries of one fish, working with a smaller list is advantagous.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

I realize I'm probably going into too much detail here but it seems that I have not gone into enough detail before today and some of you were getting the wrong idea.

BTW, I have looked at the code and I can tell you for sure that talking to the fishmonger is not causing the bug, so talk to them as much as you want. That is not to say there isn't a bug, I'm still tracking it down and will fix it asap now that I am aware of it.

I think I know what is causing it and if I'm right it would generally affect players who have been doing the quest for a while and rarely affect players just starting out... which I why I didn't catch it before now.

I'll keep you posted.

The problem is, we CANNOT get over 105 skill !!! Can't get orders for dungeon fish until you are at 106 skill. And being able to obtain a 110ps, at skill level 105 is appearing absolutely impossible, unless you bind the 105ps's.

 

[popps]

The choice of fish is completely random. You are just having a run in with the RNG.

That was my best guess also, I think it relates to the well known "streakiness" of Ultima Online's RNG......

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

That is actually what happens a lot, at least for me, I tend to use the General Chat a whole lot to trade what I need for what other fishermen may need and at least for me (and those who trade with me...), it is working well.

We're working on an idea of what to do with the common lobsters and crabs, we are looking at adding them to community collections. I also want to add some recipes that use them.

This is very very good news, thanks a lot. Regular crabs/lobsters are important in traps' fishing because they make finishing up orders less easy but nonetheless, having an actual use for them "outside of fishing orders" like for library collectbles or new recipes is a nice addition, thanks.

Here's something you might want to know. The list of fish expands when you get a skill above 105. Thus, you will be seeing small orders again. The fish that are added are the dungeon fish. The fish required for this quest system fall into one of 4 categories... fish that must be caught near the shore, fish that must be caught in deep water, fish that must be caught in dungeons and fish that must be caught with a trap.

Since the chance to get big orders increases with the number of successful deliveries of one fish, working with a smaller list is advantagous.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

I realize I'm probably going into too much detail here but it seems that I have not gone into enough detail before today and some of you were getting the wrong idea.

Personally, I appreciate knowing more about the way it works because at least I can figure out better what to do....
Now, if only I could get a 110 fishing PS being at 105.......
I know of some people who got it past 106 when they can do dungeon fishing but the problem is that at 105 I cannot do dungeon fishing and so I am not sure how I can lay my hands on a 110 PS other than binding up 8 x 105s.....

BTW, I have looked at the code and I can tell you for sure that talking to the fishmonger is not causing the bug, so talk to them as much as you want. That is not to say there isn't a bug, I'm still tracking it down and will fix it asap now that I am aware of it.

I think I know what is causing it and if I'm right it would generally affect players who have been doing the quest for a while and rarely affect players just starting out... which I why I didn't catch it before now.

I'll keep you posted.

I assume it is a bug which causes reputation drop with the fishmongers........let's hope you catch it as soon as possible......

Talking about bugs, can you please tell us something about the 110 fishing PS ?

Is it possible to actually be given a 110 PS while being at 105 fishing ?

Or is it mandatory to have to run the dungeon fishing orders which only start at 106 skill ?

Bottom line is, as of now is the only possible way to start dungeon fishing the gathering of 8 x 105s and bind them into a 110 PS ?

If this is not the case, and at least "in theory" code "should" allow a fisherman at 105 to get an order that grants a 110 PS, this currently does not happen due to the "reputation drop bug" which basically prevents the fisherman to ever be offered the right order to get a 110 PS while being at 105 skill ?

Thanks for the explaination.

 

[SashaSeeks]

Talking with fishmongers does not affect your reputation. Refusing quests from fishmongers does not affect your reputation with them. If it does, it's a bug.

The only thing that hurts your rep is dumping their crates overboard.

Your reputation is shared among all fishmongers. For a small peek at the design, as your character gets orders for fish, there is a record of those fish attached to your character. That list has data attached to it like how many times you have completed orders with that fish. When you talk to another fishmonger, he can check that list. That list is used to calculate your "reputation".

Please keep in mind that reputation is not actually an integer, the design goal was to emulate running a pro fishing business. No matter who you are in the fishing world, sometimes you get small orders. If you turned in every possible fish 6 times each in various orders, your chance to get a 6 line order would be 1/6.

With that in mind, certain rewards are only available to small orders and certain rewards are only available in large orders. An effort was made to make the small order rewards valuable but give incentive to advance. Large orders don't just give you the same stuff in larger quantities.

Each fish increments or decrements in quantities seperately. If you have done a ton of orders but have never rolled a cobia before, then it will be an order for 10 cobia.

The rewards for the fishing quest are designed for people who like to fish. The "real" money in the fishing quest are the baits that make catching enchanted fish a reasonable goal. Once people start figuring out what the new fish pies do and how they stack with other buffs, I expect you will make a lot of coin fishing them up.[/quote]

Yes we had that in mind, my team does like to fish, we have the cooks the alchemists, fishers etc. some of the special pies would be handy to have. BUT the baits don't seem to work well, at least not at 105 fishing skill.

I've burnt I think a 30-50 use bait on trying to catch autumn dragon fish in Ishnar, didn't catch anything but fish and shoes. Now on the other hand, I have simply fished in Ishnar at times and have caught 3 autumn dragon fish in the same spot, without using any bait at all. I do use a bloodwood fishing pole, so I don't know if the special pole affected the bait, or if the bait simply does not work, or its back to the RNG. So if it is back to the RNG with baits, I might as well continue fishing with out the special prize of the bait, as I catch more special fish without it. I have also tried the holy mackrel bait, with the same results. Never caught anything with the bait, but since I have caught I think 4-6.

With that said, I enjoy fishing, I enjoy getting the special fish, and the bait does not seem to work... But with all of that, who the heck has time to go sports fishing as we call it for the special fish, cuz we are all so busy trying to catch the flipping crabs and lobsters for the wacked out quests, that give a not so good reward for all the time and effort put into catching the things, trying to get a PS. Even further.... I have recieved I think 60 use yellow barricuda bait... Yellow barricuda bait? I have caught so many yellow barricuda without bait that I must have around 3000 barricuda steaks in my hold now. And again, that is without ever using a bait to catch em.

 

[Basara]

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

A lot of us are, and while it helps some, the change to how traps work makes it almost impossible to get enough to trade. Many of us would rather have the up to 5, with a greater chance of trap loss, than the current system where you get 0-3 per trap, and if you leave a trap out long enough to try to get 2 (let alone 3), you're as likely to lose the trap (and the crab/lobster in it, already) as to get a second catch.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

You need to check your code for the weights, Mark.

Currently, the bait rewards reflect the following:

Shallow Fish = count as 1/2
Deepwater Fish = count as 1
Trapped "fish" = count as 1/2 (NOT 2).

Someone may have accidentally typed a "/" for a "*".

 

[SashaSeeks]

Maybe THIS has something to do with the bug????



I have an order for 35 deep water fish. Fish weigh 10 stones each, so the weight in the crate should be 350 Stones, but yet the crate is only reflecting 215 stones. All I can figure to get to a number of 215 is if, my two orders for ten fish are weighted for 10 stone each, but the order for the 15 fish only weighed in at 1 stone each.

I also logged off and back on again, no change in this quirky weight, I also went back and checked on the weight of my piles of fish, they are all weighing 10 stones each.

So why does my loaded crate only weigh 215 stones????

 

[Mapper]

Maybe THIS has something to do with the bug????

View attachment 5470

I have an order for 35 deep water fish. Fish weigh 10 stones each, so the weight in the crate should be 350 Stones, but yet the crate is only reflecting 215 stones. All I can figure to get to a number of 215 is if, my two orders for ten fish are weighted for 10 stone each, but the order for the 15 fish only weighed in at 1 stone each.

I also logged off and back on again, no change in this quirky weight, I also went back and checked on the weight of my piles of fish, they are all weighing 10 stones each.

So why does my loaded crate only weigh 215 stones????

Fish I store in my house are 1 stone, So what you said is likely true, the two 10's are 100 stones each, But the 15 fish are 1 stone each.

Quest giver should still accept it though.

 

[SashaSeeks]

Additional info on 215 stone crate, in case it makes a difference.... Crossed the server line to deliver, it remained 215 stones, Pac shard, the quest was from moonglow to skara, reward was a lava trap.

 

[SashaSeeks]

Fish I store in my house are 1 stone, So what you said is likely true, the two 10's are 100 stones each, But the 15 fish are 1 stone each.

Quest giver should still accept it though.

The fish I store in my house are all 10 stones each. Wish I had a special fishing pack that made all fish weigh only 1 stone. LOL

Just thought I would put the info out there incase, the weight of the crate had anything to do with the bugs/calculations.....

 

[Sellingahouse]

I think I know what is causing it and if I'm right it would generally affect players who have been doing the quest for a while and rarely affect players just starting out... which I why I didn't catch it before now.

I'll keep you posted.

Well Im one of the players that have been doing quest from day one, guess Im affected. Do you have an idea about how long it will take to fix the problem? One day I hope.
What about the orders for 5 of one type when you dont quit a quest? Does that make your reputation go down?

 

[Basara]

I personally find it amusing that the standard Bluegill Sunfish weighs over twice the WORLD RECORD for a Bluegill Sunfish in the real world.

I won't even go into what Shad are, IRL.....

 

[Umfufu]

Talking with fishmongers does not affect your reputation. Refusing quests from fishmongers does not affect your reputation with them. If it does, it's a bug.

The only thing that hurts your rep is dumping their crates overboard.

Your reputation is shared among all fishmongers. For a small peek at the design, as your character gets orders for fish, there is a record of those fish attached to your character. That list has data attached to it like how many times you have completed orders with that fish. When you talk to another fishmonger, he can check that list. That list is used to calculate your "reputation".

Please keep in mind that reputation is not actually an integer, the design goal was to emulate running a pro fishing business. No matter who you are in the fishing world, sometimes you get small orders. If you turned in every possible fish 6 times each in various orders, your chance to get a 6 line order would be 1/6.

With that in mind, certain rewards are only available to small orders and certain rewards are only available in large orders. An effort was made to make the small order rewards valuable but give incentive to advance. Large orders don't just give you the same stuff in larger quantities.

Each fish increments or decrements in quantities seperately. If you have done a ton of orders but have never rolled a cobia before, then it will be an order for 10 cobia.

The rewards for the fishing quest are designed for people who like to fish. The "real" money in the fishing quest are the baits that make catching enchanted fish a reasonable goal. Once people start figuring out what the new fish pies do and how they stack with other buffs, I expect you will make a lot of coin fishing them up.

The choice of fish is completely random. You are just having a run in with the RNG.

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

We're working on an idea of what to do with the common lobsters and crabs, we are looking at adding them to community collections. I also want to add some recipes that use them.

Here's something you might want to know. The list of fish expands when you get a skill above 105. Thus, you will be seeing small orders again. The fish that are added are the dungeon fish. The fish required for this quest system fall into one of 4 categories... fish that must be caught near the shore, fish that must be caught in deep water, fish that must be caught in dungeons and fish that must be caught with a trap.

Since the chance to get big orders increases with the number of successful deliveries of one fish, working with a smaller list is advantagous.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

I realize I'm probably going into too much detail here but it seems that I have not gone into enough detail before today and some of you were getting the wrong idea.

BTW, I have looked at the code and I can tell you for sure that talking to the fishmonger is not causing the bug, so talk to them as much as you want. That is not to say there isn't a bug, I'm still tracking it down and will fix it asap now that I am aware of it.

I think I know what is causing it and if I'm right it would generally affect players who have been doing the quest for a while and rarely affect players just starting out... which I why I didn't catch it before now.

I'll keep you posted.

Please allow me to cross post for once guys as it feels the devs mostly only read the UHall and I really would like Marks reaction on the following:

Ok ...
Since 2 days I am doing these Quests again ...
This time I have recorded each Quest in an Excel sheet. With what Silverbird just wrote i looked at my sheet.

As I am doing one Quest at a time, and picking up a new Quest at each destination, I hope to avoid any confusion about or resigning or refusing a Quest.

Because Silverbird said he uses just the one Monger I sorted my data on Pickup point, that all made no sense at all and no logic was to be found.
Then I undid the sort and just looked at my data as I put it by Quest nr.

The results are shocking to me ...

It does not matter WHO you quest for ...
Siverbird is right, per fishtype the amounts you have to fetch alternate between 10-15-20 fish, and if you Cancel OR Refuse a Quest you will get a 5 inbetween.
But is alternates between ALL Mongers !!!

If what I say is true I am SOOOOOO DONE with this fishing because now besides all the efforts we put in we ALSO depend on a LUCK factor on TOP of all !!

Sorry if this is not clear ... I try to say again ...
I did the Quests one by one, picking up a new Quest at the destination ... meaning I did all Mongers in random order and no 2 times same pickup Monger in a row.
My sheet shows me no matter where you pick up the Quest, the number keep alternating 10-15-20 per FISH TYPE.

Also Petra is RIGHT ... I have not CANCEL OR REFUSE a quest, but DID speak to the Monger with an EMPTY crate because I forgot to put the fish in before I ATTEMPTED to turn in the Quest, and guess ... I got the one and only 5 line direct after this failed turnin attempt.
And it did not set me back ONE step, it set me back ALL the way, from 15 fish the line before to 5 fish the next line.
I think this is utterly wrong to have this in the system.

What I also feel as a super dissapointment is we looking at this ALL WRONG.
Reputation may determine somehow how many lines you get to a certain point.
106 skill will allow the Dungeon Fish to be included in the deliveries.
In the end Reputaion means NOTHING !

But basicly all boils down again to this typical UO RNG/LUCK thing with in this case for what you get in return INCREDIBLE HORRIBLE ODDS.

Think about it ....

first you draw from a pool from:
1 to 6 lines
Can we say the odds are 1 out of 6 to get a 6 liner?

to fill out if a pool of:
54 types of fish

12 Crab/Lobster types
12 Shore Fish types
18 Deep Sea Fish types
12 Dungeon Fish types

All these 54 types keep alternating between the quantaties 10-15-20.
And if you cancel or make a MISTAKE you can add a 5 to this.

So can I say each type has a 1 out of 3 chance to be a quantaty 20 ?

My conclusion, you have to HOPE to get a 6 liner, and HOPE that the 6 fish types the sytem picks are the higher tier ones, and then HOPE they then HAPPEN to be in the 20 quantaty rage.

As I look at this there is absolutly nothing you, me ... we ... can do with all our hard work to EARN a 120 PS scroll.
In the end you just have to hope & pray that one day the gods are with you and you get the "MAGICAL 6 LINER"

There ... I feel like a complete idiot ... again ...

Imho I will get 960 105 PS faster to bind a 120 PS then the chance of hitting the jackpot in this LOTTERY
I did realize some luck was needed here, but until just now I never imagined it basicly all boiled down to pure luck.
That little influeance we have is nothing compaired to the luck factor involved here.

I leave it upto smart mathheads to do the math of the odds of getting enough points to earn a 120 PS or a 115 PS for that matter.

I think together we finally nailed the system.
Myself I believe all I just wrote.
If I am right, and certainly compaired to what I gain as a 120 fisher, this could be the hardest obtainable scroll ingame.
Prove me wrong if not.

I wonder how the devs will fix this.

My Sheet:

Well ... back to Sports Fishing ...

Umfufu

But you see, there IS a system behind it ...
And from I think to have figured out ... I do not like what I see AT ALL ...

Why? ... RNG! ... it just has a too big role in this ...

Facts we think we have:

Fish/Crabs have points assigned to them:

0.5 Shore Fish - Crabs/Lobsters
1.0 Deep Sea Fish
1.5 Dungeon Fish

Now this all fits, I put a calculation for this in my sheet, when I got a delivery I entered the delivery in my sheet, and know in advance IF I get baits, exactly how many I will get.
I get exactly the total number of points rounded down if it has a decimel.

Which bait you get I can only guess it is as one suggested earlier mainly tied to your own fishing skill, maybe reputation has a little to do with it ... am not sure.

For the loot table in general I still have a hard time figuring this out because for me it behaves very erratic.

Clear to me is, for the low end loottable, the number of lines you get is not as important then what Quantaty & TYPE of fish you get.
For example:

Delivery 1:
20 Snow Crab
15 Blue Crab
10 Spiney Lobster
20 Redbelly Dream
10 Pike
15 Cape Cod

Looks impressive ... these 6 lines net you 52.5 points

Delivery 2:
20 Bonito
15 Infernal Tuna
10 Orc Bass

Only 3 lines ... 57.5 points though ...

If you are going for 105 PS and like to collect Baits, Books & Lava gear these orders are perfectly fine.
If you are hoping for a 110, 115 or 120 PS ... these orders are crap !

Fish types alternate thier quantaties each time they are listed in a delivery.

In general 10-15-20, unless something goes wrong intentionally or not, this seems to "reset" the count and you can start from 5 working your way upto the normal cycle again.

1 to 6 lines ... 54 types of fish/crabs to fill those lines ... each of the 54 types is in it's own quantaty cycle mostly with 3 options 10-15-20.

And seems now that some people have more often the 4th option "5" as they thought they had due to the fact it seems not only aborting an exsistig Quest but also a refuse or too early attempt to turn it in also triggers a "reset"

What I suspect:

Don't even think about getting any PS beyond 105 under 100 points.
I guess each scroll has a minimum amount points needed for it to appear in the reward pool.

I think I ... many of us ... reached max reputaion long ago ...

Due to the 3 wannabe facts stated above I think the chances to get a 6 liner with just the right fish in it, in maybe 15 but mostly 20 quantaty is pure LUCK.
Nothing else, all we can do is Quest our behinds off hoping one day the odds are favored to you.
And I feel these odds are very slim.

If I am right I can understand the "reputation hit" when aborting a quest, to prevent us from just take-abort-take quest till hit the "Magical 6 Liners" and then just do those.
But as it is now ... for me ... it feels like a too big of a lottery.
Doing a Quest is like buying a lot in this lottery, and as soon as you look at the crate to see the delivery ... you already know if you have a CHANCE to win or lost.

It upto each one personally to value the Baits, Books, Lava Gear and PS, and if they think it worth it to play this lottery.

Myself I will Quest when in the mood for it, and really do hope the "review" devs are doing on this nets a wee bit more positvie result.
Untill this time, I am assuming I have to Quest for 960 105 PS

I am wondering if anyone is smart enough to calculate my chances of getting a 6 liner with only lines of Deep Sea Fish/Dungeon Fish in only 20 quantaty?



And exactly these orders will not even give you a chance to a 110, 80 crabs, is atleast 4 lines and nets only 40 points !!

Any order with more then 2 lines with Shore Fish/Crabs will not net you a high lvl PS.

Umfufu

Dear Mark,

My posts quoted above is a summary of findings of some of us insane fishers, mine included.

I would really love for you to comment on our findings, because as I see it, in the end it all boils down to RNG in regards to getting a 110, 115, 120 Fishing PS.
I feel the reputation part plays only a small role in this larger picture.
As I see it reputation only allows you to build up the quantatity from 10 to the cap of 20 of each fish per line to be used in the RNG thing.

Some things you stated do not exactly work as you say ... yet ... :

Talking with fishmongers does not affect your reputation. Refusing quests from fishmongers does not affect your reputation with them. If it does, it's a bug.

The only thing that hurts your rep is dumping their crates overboard.

Some do believe this is not working as intended, we understand what it should be, but experience otherwise.

Here's something you might want to know. The list of fish expands when you get a skill above 105. Thus, you will be seeing small orders again. The fish that are added are the dungeon fish. The fish required for this quest system fall into one of 4 categories... fish that must be caught near the shore, fish that must be caught in deep water, fish that must be caught in dungeons and fish that must be caught with a trap.

That skill is 106, of which many of us thought was odd because it is made just out of reach of all fortunate enough to get a 105 PS.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

What you say here does not compute with our own findings, as fas as I can see Traps count for HALF. (If we take 1 as base number, if you take 0.5 as base it still does not compute with our data).

I realize I'm probably going into too much detail here but it seems that I have not gone into enough detail before today and some of you were getting the wrong idea.

No you are not ... some of us have been waiting very long for some more insight into this Fishing Monger Quests thing, I suggest you read the Fishing Profession section of these forums, because many of us fishers post there.
Alot of our findings, questions, concerns are to be found there.
No offense, but if you had read our posts there maybe you would not have written some things you just did here.

The rewards for the fishing quest are designed for people who like to fish. The "real" money in the fishing quest are the baits that make catching enchanted fish a reasonable goal. Once people start figuring out what the new fish pies do and how they stack with other buffs, I expect you will make a lot of coin fishing them up.

I am hardly selling any at all, the few I have sold I think people just bought for decco purposes.
I do not know if you are right that people are not aware of this or it is due to the fact these don't stack.
There have some some requests to please make the pies and the ingredients to craft these stackable.
Or make them last 15 mins orso if not stackable, dragging around 12 for an hours hunt ?

Please keep in mind that reputation is not actually an integer, the design goal was to emulate running a pro fishing business. No matter who you are in the fishing world, sometimes you get small orders. If you turned in every possible fish 6 times each in various orders, your chance to get a 6 line order would be 1/6.

The choice of fish is completely random. You are just having a run in with the RNG.

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

I do not think trading is the problem here (well with Crabs it is).

Looking at my posts/sheet above myself I have concluded that:

Your Reputation builds up the max amout fish you can get per type.
Your Skill will add the 4th option (Dungeon Fish) to the pool (atm 106).
RNG will determine how many lines you get for a delivery. (1 to 6)
RNG will determine what type of fish will be put in those lines. (out of a pool of 54 type of fish)
From these chosen types, the system checks at what quantaty the types are at and fill this in.
Due to the fact that each type normally cycles between 10-15-20 (when full reputation per fish is achieved), I assume you have a 1/3 chance to get a 20 line.

So my own conclusion here to get a sweet scroll is not a matter of just hard work and dedication (well basicly it is but not JUST this), but in the end is like just pure luck of getting the right combination out of a what I feel a HUGE pool.

Per delivery you have a chance of 1 out 6 for a 6 liner, and I am assuming you need 6 liners for the grand prizes the odds are are:
1 out of 6 per delivery for a 6 liner
1 out of 54 per line for the right fish
1 out of 3 per line to get quantaty 20
1 out of X per score to get the right reward out of the reward pool.

Rewards sofar we have seen:
Baits (I have 19 types now, I have counted 37 rare fish, not sure if all have their own baits)
Books (4 Parts)
Lava gear (2 types)
PS (4 types, we hope, 2 spotted ingame sofar: 105-110)
Unkown ?

Now here it becomes confusing for me to acutally do the math on this. I have no clue how to setup a formula with the data above.
Maybe you can tell me what the odds are to get enough points for a chance to draw a 110, 115, 120 scroll.

Sofar I must say I love this Booster and Fishing has become very interesting.
Apart from hating the crab fishing as is now, I would not mind you revert it back to what it was, and the perks with the Monger quests ... I do so enjoy this booster much.

I thank you much for your rersponse sofar and really hope you would be so kind as to give your thoughts on my post.

Umfufu

 

[Varingian]

I have to disagree about where the real coin is. The real coin has been selling Named Crabs and Lobsters on LS.

 

[SashaSeeks]

Nicely put Umfufu, I'm glad you found the thread over here in Uhall.

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

Maybe if the fisher threads were found under "Fisher" and not under Treasure hunter, more ppl would find them?

 

[Umfufu]

Nicely put Umfufu, I'm glad you found the thread over here in Uhall.

Thanks to you actually

 

[SashaSeeks]

Checking in to see if we have an update from Mark Mythic yet.....

Guess not.

 

[Gheed]

Maybe THIS has something to do with the bug????

View attachment 5470

I have an order for 35 deep water fish. Fish weigh 10 stones each, so the weight in the crate should be 350 Stones, but yet the crate is only reflecting 215 stones. All I can figure to get to a number of 215 is if, my two orders for ten fish are weighted for 10 stone each, but the order for the 15 fish only weighed in at 1 stone each.

I also logged off and back on again, no change in this quirky weight, I also went back and checked on the weight of my piles of fish, they are all weighing 10 stones each.

So why does my loaded crate only weigh 215 stones????

Fish I store in my house are 1 stone, So what you said is likely true, the two 10's are 100 stones each, But the 15 fish are 1 stone each.

Quest giver should still accept it though.

Probably the 15cnt fish were removed from a stack. This only works for the new fish with the classic graphic. Though the fish wiegh 10 stones when caught, removing any quantity from a stack reduces the wieght to 1 stone. So if you have 50 fish in a stack, remove 49 and place them in your pack, they would only wiegh 49 stones. But recalling sets the wieght back to 10 stones per. So after you recall out you will most likely be overwieght.

 

[Umfufu]

*bump*

It's Monday, maybe a dev has the time to read this ...
Don't blame me for trying ...

 

[SashaSeeks]

The choice of fish is completely random. You are just having a run in with the RNG.

My thought was that people would just trade with each other and it would all even out.

We're working on an idea of what to do with the common lobsters and crabs, we are looking at adding them to community collections. I also want to add some recipes that use them.

Here's something you might want to know. The list of fish expands when you get a skill above 105. Thus, you will be seeing small orders again. The fish that are added are the dungeon fish. The fish required for this quest system fall into one of 4 categories... fish that must be caught near the shore, fish that must be caught in deep water, fish that must be caught in dungeons and fish that must be caught with a trap.

Since the chance to get big orders increases with the number of successful deliveries of one fish, working with a smaller list is advantagous.

However fish classes are weighted. There is a bracketed reward system and the number of fish in the order, modified by difficulty to get the various fish determines what bracket your reward comes from. Dungeon fish count triple. Trap fish count double. Etc.

I realize I'm probably going into too much detail here but it seems that I have not gone into enough detail before today and some of you were getting the wrong idea.

BTW, I have looked at the code and I can tell you for sure that talking to the fishmonger is not causing the bug, so talk to them as much as you want. That is not to say there isn't a bug, I'm still tracking it down and will fix it asap now that I am aware of it.

I think I know what is causing it and if I'm right it would generally affect players who have been doing the quest for a while and rarely affect players just starting out... which I why I didn't catch it before now.

I'll keep you posted.

We're looking for the post....

 

[Lady Storm]

how do you dump a crate? hehe the ones I get are stuck in the hold hehe

Tongue in cheek

 

[SashaSeeks]

how do you dump a crate? hehe the ones I get are stuck in the hold hehe

Tongue in cheek

LOL
Sure wish we could move the darn things around. They always end up under my fish in the hold. Dump crate simply means to cancel the quest.

 

[Sellingahouse]

We're looking for the post....

Still looking for an update. If you cant fix it then please go reset my rep on my fisher back down to zero, I will work the quest to get it back up. Please dont go on days off (Thanksgiving) without telling us something. I really thought it would be in the five on friday for last week, I dont think we will get a 5 on friday this week, please dont leave us hanging.