Good change!!
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UOKaiser
Guest
I think I did. But it is pretty obvious how it effects PVM. It's still duable but am not a fan of nerfing things just for the sake of it let alone when the the reasio0n for the nerf behind it has nothing to do with the opposite playstyle.
I know there the same people as in not a division of sorts well not really. There were changes up there a little while ago as you know. Certain PVP centric devs got more say and up the foodchain. Check out the way changes were implemented since the firings arrr.. "moving ons"
You guys are complaining about only being able to carry 100 pots instead of 200? If you need that many pots you need to get better at UO.
Keep in mind for PVM purposes that everytime you drink a potion you'll free up 1 stone of weight. If it takes you 100 potions to get through your mini-spawn the end weight from empty bottles will be the same as before the publish.
I'm not sure this will have much impact on PVP. The biggest impact will be that good players won't have room to loot as many potions from their kills without dropping off loot at home.
I'm not sure this will have much impact on PVP. The biggest impact will be that good players won't have room to loot as many potions from their kills without dropping off loot at home.
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Great change.
I always thought carrying a 100 potions was stupid.
I think there should be a limit and that the should shatter much more often in battle.
But heck.
The damage output on all templates has been increased thru the years along with greater dragons breath weapon and attacks for ridiculous amounts of damage...don't want people to carry pots dont make us carry pots...
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Yep I know and I think that is how the decided to deal with endless or nearly endless pots. With all this crap we can do over and over, the response was a bizzillion hit point and one hit monsters.
See the strategy now is not not to die. Its CHUG up and if you die, rezz ASAP and start over.
PVP or PVM dieing used to be more then a 2 minute annoyance.
So now its we slug it out with mega hit point one breath monsters and think it is fun.
J
[JD]
Guest
Didn't really read the thread but IMO potions and consumables have been too powerful for too long. They have needed some sort of a nerf.
Skills that you invest points in to heal, cure, resist spells, should always be more powerful and better to have than something you can buy for a few gold and double click.
Skills that you invest points in to heal, cure, resist spells, should always be more powerful and better to have than something you can buy for a few gold and double click.
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Babble
Guest
*introduces Little shop of Horrors into UO*
Take That Gardeners!
heavier potions will hurt pvm? thats laughable. I can solo any high end monster (other than parax) and only ONE of them uses potions. My stygian dragon killing archer uses heals and refresh to get through the boss fight faster but they are not required since he has healing and chiv.
Pvp, yes itll have a slight change there in the matter of how many pots you roll with and how many you loot. Hard to tell how this change will affect pvpers seeings how a few other pvp changes are in that publish as well. As it looks so far, there will be alot of lowend pvpers crying if this next publish delivers the pvp changes it boasts.
Pvp, yes itll have a slight change there in the matter of how many pots you roll with and how many you loot. Hard to tell how this change will affect pvpers seeings how a few other pvp changes are in that publish as well. As it looks so far, there will be alot of lowend pvpers crying if this next publish delivers the pvp changes it boasts.
Starts rant ... 
Bad move to nerf things useful for pvm just because of pvp.
The increased potion weight is not the only thing in the patch notes that worries me.
Potion weight may not be a problem for necro warriors, but if you want to fight stuff like dreadhorn , paroxy, putrifier, navrey slasher or what else on a non necro warrior ( samurai or ninjitsu build) with bandage healing,you are going to need 50+ greater cure pots and some of the others plus bandages and apples.
The nice thing about uo is, you can do alot of stuff just because you can do it, why take these things away? Pots have been like that for years, and as others did point out,it will change nothing for pvp, so why mess around with that stuff ?
Next there are the changes to magic reflection. People did build suits using that spell to get the final resists right. In some cases,they did invest a good amount of time, gold and thinking. Now they just throw them away. The roleplaying community is using magic reflect to get some better resists on their gm made non magic armor. Why destroy that? Why change the workings of a spell that has been like that for ages, is it so hard to create a new spell for the spell reflection and leave the old effects alone?
I did wonder why they did fix the throwing bugs a year after release of sa.
Because of this.
Another nerf that affects the pvm crowd just because of pvp.
If the goal is to weaken some silly overpowered pvm templates , they should look at wraith form and curse weapon first, colossus and vampiric embrace next perhaps for a very small adjustment.
But leave the pot chuggers, the poor gargoyles with a selection of 3 throwing weapons and the armor tweakers alone. Wrong target.
Habe fertig.
Bad move to nerf things useful for pvm just because of pvp.
The increased potion weight is not the only thing in the patch notes that worries me.
Potion weight may not be a problem for necro warriors, but if you want to fight stuff like dreadhorn , paroxy, putrifier, navrey slasher or what else on a non necro warrior ( samurai or ninjitsu build) with bandage healing,you are going to need 50+ greater cure pots and some of the others plus bandages and apples.
The nice thing about uo is, you can do alot of stuff just because you can do it, why take these things away? Pots have been like that for years, and as others did point out,it will change nothing for pvp, so why mess around with that stuff ?
Next there are the changes to magic reflection. People did build suits using that spell to get the final resists right. In some cases,they did invest a good amount of time, gold and thinking. Now they just throw them away. The roleplaying community is using magic reflect to get some better resists on their gm made non magic armor. Why destroy that? Why change the workings of a spell that has been like that for ages, is it so hard to create a new spell for the spell reflection and leave the old effects alone?
I did wonder why they did fix the throwing bugs a year after release of sa.
Because of this.
After this, throwing would have been even more unusable. If this change goes live ,we are probably back to 5+ misses in a row with 50hci on char.
Another nerf that affects the pvm crowd just because of pvp.
If the goal is to weaken some silly overpowered pvm templates , they should look at wraith form and curse weapon first, colossus and vampiric embrace next perhaps for a very small adjustment.
But leave the pot chuggers, the poor gargoyles with a selection of 3 throwing weapons and the armor tweakers alone. Wrong target.
Habe fertig.
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UOKaiser
Guest
Not a complaint is where does it end? Still it's only on test center it doesn;'t mean it's going through a pubilsh.
Doesn't matter if players are better or worse. If there is only one or 2 skill sets that must be put together in order to be consider good then that is a flaw system. With all the skills that are available 2 us we should not be pushed into only able to use 2 specific templates with specific skills to even be considered good. A player who decided to play a alchemist should be able to take on high end game play with a mass of potions. If the system is stack against him then no matter how good he is shuffling potions and using it he could never win unless he changes his template. This is flawed.
For example you playing a mix of fencing, ninja,stealth, and some other supporting skills. Don't matter how good you are using that template you not going to take down stygian dragon unless you play a different character.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
OOOO... OUCH! You are so mean!
I didn't say I don't PvP, I said that all the little boy chest thumping that you do over it just doesn't do anything for me. Playing with speeders and cheaters doesn't do anything for me. Besides I get more out of helping others in game, rather than insulting and tearing them down. You wouldn't understand.
If the goal is take down pvm, then do that
Another interesting thing:
HS promise pirate fighting (broken due to indestructable ships), fishing quest and 120 fishing (broken sops over 110 cannot be found) and smooth ship movement (the lonly working thing...). But they think to double the potion weight... who cares if people has paid 15$ for broken contents...
I did opt for a small nerf, playing both a sampire and a wammy, and especially wraith form has a lot of potential for abuse, much much more than the stuff they are trying to fix. With both chars,some stuff is just to easy , even more so if you look at skillpoint investment needed for healing or for the necro stuff.
They just hurt the wrong templates.
This is an excellent point. It has a smaller effect on PvM than people realize.
Actually I like this change. It makes sense that a bottle should be somewhat awkward to carry. Not only that, as Petra has sussed out, suddenly there is a real reason to use kegs again. And if it cuts down on the numbers of pots carried in pvp, great.
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UOKaiser
Guest
It's still a nerf no matter what way you see it. It doesn't improve any characters with pots in anyway so it's a nerf.
Sure it's a nerf, but not all nerfs are bad nerfs...
Oh, here comes the high and mighty I'm better than you attitude everyone on these forums seems to have.
Can someone post one of these highend boss types that a person needs pots for? Along time ago, when my suit and items licked, I drank pots but it has been a long time since those days. As for Pvp I tend to roll with about 20 of each buff and 30 of the others making 100 stone weight which is no biggie. I use to add 5 for conflag pots but since those got the break....
There is no such thing because pots are not needed in this game.
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UOKaiser
Guest
Depends on the set of skills someone has. Not everyine plays a certain template and it should never be like that. Lets see name all the templates you use to solo stygian dragon and peerless. If you can only name 1 or 2 per boss that can there is a problem. invisibility,heal,cure,refresh,agility,strengh,confusion,conflaguration,etc are used in battle for skill templates or people in there particular playstyle.
All this bantering about pots weighing an extra stone when full has me wondering if this is a diversion tactic by Mythic
*jots a few notes down in his conspiracy theory note pad*
*jots a few notes down in his conspiracy theory note pad*
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UOKaiser
Guest
Too me all nerfs are bad. Nerfs means something else must be nerfed to keep up with nerf in a forever loop.If something is overpowered they should just raise things around it to make it equal. Much easier even though there will never ever be anything equal in a non-chess game.Sure it's a nerf, but not all nerfs are bad nerfs...
Rofl ... have you ever used a sampire? If you plain to solo stuff like a Stygian Dragon you def need pots, apples, grapes, petals, and whatever else you can get.
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Babble
Guest
Anyone else doubts this was done for balancing things?
It is probably an oooold bug that empty potions weight the same as full ones and probably the developers decided it is now time to change it?
They have timers for balancing, so why bother with weight?
It is probably an oooold bug that empty potions weight the same as full ones and probably the developers decided it is now time to change it?
They have timers for balancing, so why bother with weight?
Personally, Id rather have them weigh a tad more (like say two stones) and have a shorter timer than have them weigh less and have a longer timer.
There's been a time or three when I've gotten way over my head and was burning bandages and quacking pots like the Flash in a hurry all the while wishing the timers would hurry up before I go monochrome.
There's been a time or three when I've gotten way over my head and was burning bandages and quacking pots like the Flash in a hurry all the while wishing the timers would hurry up before I go monochrome.
Archer.
And you what, use bandages then run away for an hour? Yeah, I guess you don't need to use pots if your tactic is to run away the whole time, heh. Sampire/whammy is a lot more efficient for DPS though.
You can read my postings about sampire's in the warrior forum, I have two which I use often.
Thats one boss and you listed a few extra items to bring along. Truthfully I did the dragon once and then came to the conclusion that it produced little in rewards that I wanted so I've long forgotten about it. A few of the items are ok but nothing special and half are for a nearly useless gargoyle setup.
For the stuff I kill, which is mostly champs and the odd mini-champ, pots are just not needed. I've spent time and money nearly perfecting my suit and a near perfect selection of specific weapons built to do exactly what I need. Granted I could use the buff, everyone could, but it is far from a must and simply a extra help.
Thats one boss and you listed a few extra items to bring along. Truthfully I did the dragon once and then came to the conclusion that it produced little in rewards that I wanted so I've long forgotten about it. A few of the items are ok but nothing special and half are for a nearly useless gargoyle setup.
For the stuff I kill, which is mostly champs and the odd mini-champ, pots are just not needed. I've spent time and money nearly perfecting my suit and a near perfect selection of specific weapons built to do exactly what I need. Granted I could use the buff, everyone could, but it is far from a must and simply a extra help.
Well does every single monster in UO need to be soloable? They all just about are already...
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Vaelix
Guest
So your problem is, You want to keep your amazing survivability while retaining your more efficient DPS?
I want a Ninja Goldfish..
While you can solo a Styg, and certainly a Medusa, it's actually a waste of time to solo either one if you want loot. Therefore, there is balance between solo play and group play. If you solo most of the new stuff it's for the challenge above all else -- and the micromanaging to stay alive is certainly a challenge. If you want items, it's better to fight in a group for most of the newer monsters. Old peerless bosses are better suited for soloing if you want loot, too.
My problem is potions, irregardless of EP, have been around since at least 1999, and I assume since the game went live. Some call them a crutch and others you call them a tool, but either way, potions were intended to improve survivability. And that is their purpose.
However, my amazing ability to survive is dependent on me as a user. Tactics outweigh items, no potion pun intended. And actually, one of my alliance members recently found a new way to do Styg; the ability for a user to create a new tactic is one of the main reasons why MMORPG gaming is so enjoyable to me. However, not all tactics are created equal.
If they change potion weight then all it will do is make people carry less potions, which will probably result in a new "tactic," such as, say, a person carting in a second character bundled with the second half of potions. If I were a game dev I would remove EP entirely and then tackle pots from there.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
Not sure where you come up with your personal attacks, but I didn't say that at all. I don't like you because you cheat, you don't like me because I don't like cheaters and am trying to stop them. Let's leave it at that. Please stop your personal attacks and Trolls - it doesn't add anything to the conversation.
I wonder if the weight of full pots was changed to allow a shatter potion to target the full ones and not empties? they need a supply of shatter potions on test as well to further test how pots in pvp will be if these changes are put in.
As for pvm, honestly guys n gals if your relying on potions that much in a monster fight then just reconfigure the template and pack space. if your used to pvming with pots then by now you should know just how many of each pot will be needed per fight, so take the minimum. Or now you can take the pots youd use and put them in a keg so they weigh less until you need to refill. Like I said I only use pots on one pvm fight and even then they are not necessary, just something to support and hasten the battle. my sampire doesnt need any pots, she runs 149str/149 dex so no need for buff pots, vamp form for poison, Cleanse by fire for heavy poison, Evasion/Confidence/Close wounds for non leeched hp. Im not saying all should conform to template lines but im just saying theres ways to be just as deadly in pvm without pots.
As for pvp, hard to say, people will have less pots on hand, battles may shorten in length, new templates may emerge. The changes arent finalized so if your worried about the changes get on test try them and if they dont seem right then voice your concern then.
As for pvm, honestly guys n gals if your relying on potions that much in a monster fight then just reconfigure the template and pack space. if your used to pvming with pots then by now you should know just how many of each pot will be needed per fight, so take the minimum. Or now you can take the pots youd use and put them in a keg so they weigh less until you need to refill. Like I said I only use pots on one pvm fight and even then they are not necessary, just something to support and hasten the battle. my sampire doesnt need any pots, she runs 149str/149 dex so no need for buff pots, vamp form for poison, Cleanse by fire for heavy poison, Evasion/Confidence/Close wounds for non leeched hp. Im not saying all should conform to template lines but im just saying theres ways to be just as deadly in pvm without pots.
As for pvp, hard to say, people will have less pots on hand, battles may shorten in length, new templates may emerge. The changes arent finalized so if your worried about the changes get on test try them and if they dont seem right then voice your concern then.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
*scratches head*
Isn't that what we are doing, voicing our concerns before the changes are finalized??
This change isn't a big deal to me; I use potions and they certainly help, but I don't rely on them. Still, how does this balance PvP when mages run around with 100% LRC, and no cool-down timers on casting of heal or cure spells. If anything, there should be cool-down timers at least on the cure spells to match cure potions.
Eww, no way. No mage would pvp with cool-down on heal and cure spells lol. Should we go back to the intended change the devs tried awhile back, in which a dexxer had to disarm in order to use a bandage? That one sounded just as good, lol.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
HEH... I missed the dexxer/bandage thingy. Maybe spell casting speed should be tied into Stamina. Remember that one? I didn't think it was such a bad idea - most dexxers need mana, but most mages don't need dex.
Those defending soloing things that should never be soloed, tisk tisk. Long ago after AoS and the flood of new critters, players asked that monsters and loot to be higher. The epic Dark Father Doom hunts with large groups doing 'a free for all' hunt made for player interaction. Anything that brings epic fights back to PVP is all good. (Pitt had two 1v1 fights in the movie Troy. The glass sword vs the big guy was lame but the skilling killing of the prince and giving him a charriot ride was much more entertaining.)
Take your dexer down to a preAoS suit and weapon and fight a demon or gargoyle without any post AoS skills. It is a fun epic fight but the loot does not equal the effort. Anything that works to this end and forces players to gather more (glue of any MMO) like this potion nerf is all good.
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