Remove the "reuse skill" timer on Detect Hidden

[Freelsy]

*adds her 2 cents worth* I don't see what the fuss is all about. 99% of the people I have seen (not seen) that are stealthers are crafters so I don't understand why Pvpers are so intent on killing those that can't defend themselves. Now if it was pvp stealthers there are tons of ways to find them. Conflag pots, earthquake, some myst spells, meteor swarms, elves passing by, poison fields, etc. So tell me who exactly is at a disadvantage here? Stealthers are usually on foot and hardly any have resisting spells on their template once reveal they are basically sitting ducks, with mages para spamming and such. In anycase I would probably vote to leave things as they are.

Don't tell us how to reveal stealthers or pvp please. With the comments you just made it painfully clear that you don't pvp. Everything you mentioned, i can stand right in the middle of the damage and not be revealed. Its about revealing them and them not being able to insta hide again. Also, Vaelix just mentioned about 20 ways to reveal a stealther. And "elves passing by" that's known as passive reveal.


You wern't here when there was pvp 24/7. Probably 2 years ago. The same thing is today just on a smaller scale. Everyone then was stealth archers. Stealth tamers, stealth detectors.. stealth something.

It was always the same routine. Stealth up to someone, dismount, dragon attack, everyone armor ignore. Then they would all run away.

OR, if they were getting damage, even if it was 1v1 they would smoke bomb. run away and you wouldn't see them anymore.


I don't give two ****s about killing a crafter with hiding. Hell, you're wasting skills if you put hiding on a crafter.

 

[Draxous]

If a player doesn't want to risk getting PK'd, they should check out Trammel.

Or join factions so they can use faction runes to escape and keep their precious suits they are too scared to lose.

Yep and that needs to be changed too, but that's a different topic all together.

 

[Chardonnay]

Can someone please define "low hanging fruit"...

And on a side note, i have a couple "low hanging fruit" the DEVS can look at...

*cackles*

 

[Kat]

Can someone please define "low hanging fruit"...

And on a side note, i have a couple "low hanging fruit" the DEVS can look at...

*cackles*

"Low hanging fruit" is no longer the goal really. Cal asked several months ago for that which could be easily implemented, we gave him an initial list, he shot all that down, we gave him another list and he opted to remove the daily RoT caps, which wasn't really even on the list and thats what we have. At this point, we are trying to determine other significant changes that can help the shard and we have gotten side tracked with this business of stealthers.

Whether that is really an issue that will offer this shard some significant help, I don't believe so, but it depends on who you ask. IMO, there are much more important things that could give the shard a much needed kick-start.

1. As much as I hate to admit it - Lowering the price of faction arties
2. Increasing the arty drops across the board:

Cursed Arties
Doom Arties
ML Arties
Tokuno Minors
Replica's, etc

3. Advanced Character Tokens

Unless Sieger's have had a complete change of heart over the last month, I think the majority agree's with those changes.


I also think the following would be very helpful:

4. Removal of Greater Dragons, Dread Mares and the like
5. Increased bankbox storage for all shards [500-1000]. If for no other reason, so that Trammel players can: A. Store their millions and items if they want to try or move to Siege and B. So they can live out of their bank boxes for a while on Siege [in an intensely item based game] until they can make housing arrangements.


Whatever the list ends up being, we have to be united on it and make a hard push until Cal gets off his butt and takes care of it. Since he clearly isn't motivated, its something we'll have to fight for at this point.

 

[Hugibear]

Putting the timer at 0 isnt gonna help at all. I am telling you people, I play a stealth character that has killed everyone reading this thread. And I die very little on this character. I usually only die when I get overly aggressive. I cant remember the last time a detector gave me a problem. You all seem to forget about shadow strike, I can do it every 1.25 seconds, ("But Hugi, you have to hit your target and that doesnt happen all the time") Well it does if you summon a mirror image and shadow strike off of it.
As for ninja not having a viable healing method that is your own fault for not taking the proper skills or proper equipment, dont come complaining here because you dont know how to set up a template. Also dont blame me that you dont have uoa or proper marcos set that is your own fault. You are either too cheap or dont know wtf you are doing. When I first came to this shard I didnt use uoa either and I did fine without hide stealth.
Everyone complaining about the idea of passive detect still hasnt tried it on a sever where it is active. If they had they wouldnt be complainin about it. You can still stealth around with no problems, just cant get too close to people without take a risk. OH MY!!! what is that risk vs reward! And I have had enough of people saying it is trammy-ish, or telling me to go there. At this point if you want to buy my **** I will gladly leave. Most of you dont want change to this dieing shard. Havent you realized it is broken and needs fixing. I am giving (multiple) suggestions to help build back a base of players. Have all the crafters left the shard? or farmers? I would say it was mostly the pvpers who have left, hmm I wonder why??

 

[Symma]

4. Removal of Greater Dragons, Dread Mares and the like

Can't see that ever happening really. Not that the pets bother me, and I don't PvP but I don't believe anyone would take that decision at EA Mythic.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Why doesn't no timer seem fair when there is no timer between hiding and stealth?

BR are you really too dense to see why they can't totally remove the timer? if they were to remove it completely then detect hidden would be overpowered and abused cause people would just spam the skill with some auto macro and people would not be able to hide or stealth at all. Stop being ridiculous and take note of what Rico said in your locked thread about how to defeat a stealther.

Siege is not just about BFF or whatever the name of that silly guild is. The only way to make things fair is to remove smoke bombs which is just fine with me being that I don't use them anyway.

 

[Hugibear]

Cheapy you are not going to get anything removed. The devs will only do what is easiest for them. Being passive reveal is already active all the other shards, this would seem like the easiest solution.

Kat - nice ideas again devs willnt remove something.
1. lower price of arties - already on prodo so easy fix
2. Increased drop of stuff - I guess most of you havent realized the devs have started this with t-maps and will prolly do more with fishing and other skills and other events.
3. Advanced character - not a bad idea, shouldnt be too hard either. But is that really gonna help. Getting skills to 80 isnt that difficult.
4. Removal of pets - Again devs arent going to remove anything, maybe it would be more fair for pets to have use a siege bless. As for the most part a pet could be your offensive and defensive. You should have to use your blessing on it.
5. Bank storage sounds like a great idea. and housing too would be great, a 7x7 only as your second home on siege

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Rico explained in detail how to defeat a stealther... example.... Ru for instance...if Ru detected me and tried to fight me without poisoning me I would hand him buns every single time. But what gives him the edge and allows him to kill me the majority of times (not all) is that he's a pro at keeeping you poisoned, he has it down to an art. But I assure you if he approached me with his lil detect skills without his darts that he would never approach me again. He knows how to defeat a stealther but i promise it is more difficult for him to defeat Cheapsuit than most ninjas because I actually keeping 120 points in healing source unlike most ninja DS'ers. Learn to play or just ask Ru to teach you and stop all the crying.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

You guys should be more worried about tamers than stealthers anyway, they are the ones who are overpowered. Besides a stealther could never kill a really good mage (at least I can't), a fair mage maybe but not a sakie or kage so what's the problem?

Edit: And Loki the reason you don't see me on the field is because I accidentally deleted my 120 stealth stone and too lazy to rebuild it. How's that for irony.

 

[Freelsy]

Rico explained in detail how to defeat a stealther... example.... Ru for instance...if Ru detected me and tried to fight me without poisoning me I would hand him buns every single time. But what gives him the edge and allows him to kill me the majority of times (not all) is that he's a pro at keeeping you poisoned, he has it down to an art. But I assure you if he approached me with his lil detect skills without his darts that he would never approach me again. He knows how to defeat a stealther but i promise it is more difficult for him to defeat Cheapsuit than most ninjas because I actually keeping 120 points in healing source unlike most ninja DS'ers. Learn to play or just ask Ru to teach you and stop all the crying.

A pro at keeping them poisoned? I think he was fighting newb ass pvp'rs (looking at you) that couldn't keep them selves cured. I'm thinking cure pots? What are you doing, carrying 2 of them?

Also, gotta think of tactics here. If there is a person revealing out there you know NOT TO HIDE as soon as you're detected. If you know Ru poisons after he reveals you then you wait till your poisoned, pop a cure and then re-hide. Or run like a bat outta hell, smoke bomb and your home free. SOOO EASY to avoid detectors/ganks with stealth. Unless of course you get the unlucky reveal then a dragon hits you, and a late explosion reveals your ass again before the timer. But that doesn't happen very often. If it does, you just run real fast

Here's a free tip for you noob peoples. If you're stealthing around and happen to be revealed by the gank squad make two easy moves.

1. Wait a few seconds so they can see you and the direction in which you are going. Also, in this time cure or heal, whatever you need to do.

2. As soon as you re-hide, turn into the gank crowd (since there is no passive detect it doesn't matter) and discontinue going in the direction you originally were. They will think you are trying to get away from them and will keep heading in that general direction while you are safely off their screen.

BOOM!

 

[Freelsy]

You guys should be more worried about tamers than stealthers anyway, they are the ones who are overpowered. Besides a stealther could never kill a really good mage (at least I can't), a fair mage maybe but not a sakie or kage so what's the problem?

Edit: And Loki the reason you don't see me on the field is because I accidentally deleted my 120 stealth stone and too lazy to rebuild it. How's that for irony.

This was a dumb post. What do 99% of tamers run, genius? That's right, HIDE/STEALTH

There are those that run dread/mage or dread/archer. Those are tough, but you just don't fight them 1v1 Unless you have the counter to their template.

I run a stealth ninja deathstrike nervestrike bokuto weilding badass and I've killed my fair share of good mages. Both Siege and prodo. Its not that hard unless they go into prot form... Then its useless, IMO.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

I never said I couldn't cure, I think you are missing the point. it's all about timing. Also as stated 100 times i DO NOT use smoke bombs. And for the record I never try to escape Ru, it's always a fight to the death. hell I can escape a 5 man gank if I wanted to just because I've been doing it for so many years but if someone reveals me and they are brave enough to do it alone, then round and round we go!

 

[Freelsy]

I never said I couldn't cure, I think you are missing the point. it's all about timing. Also as stated 100 times i DO NOT use smoke bombs. And for the record I never try to escape Ru, it's always a fight to the death.

Well that is why you and maybe others don't do so well in pvp. You don't use all the tools available to you. that's like a carpenter saying he's gonna build a house, but not use a level, or a hammer. Kinda stupid and makes things much more difficult then they need to be.

and Yes, if its 1v1 you shouldn't be stealthing around anyways! Always fight it 1v1... unless its a tamer I don't fight tamers. I think they're stupid

 

[The Cheapsuit]

This was a dumb post. What do 99% of tamers run, genius? That's right, HIDE/STEALTH

There are those that run dread/mage or dread/archer. Those are tough, but you just don't fight them 1v1 Unless you have the counter to their template.

I run a stealth ninja deathstrike nervestrike bokuto weilding badass and I've killed my fair share of good mages. Both Siege and prodo. Its not that hard unless they go into prot form... Then its useless, IMO.

Of course you do, you're still a bok bok kiddo, this does not surprise me one bit. And you of all people have the audacity to complain about something being overpowered? Wow.

 

[Hugibear]

just because you choose not to use smokebombs doesnt make them not overpowered combined with hide and stealth. It is like taming combined with hide stealth ninja it is just silly overpowered.
And taking advice from either you (cheapo) or rico on pvp is like taking english lessons from someone that only speaks chinese. I will give Ru some credit he understands the hide stealth detect template, but again last time he was around I killed his guildie right infront of his face. And it was only me and about 4 tnt.

And you think that someone that uses it often would realize it is op, that is what makes freelsy a pretty good person to listen.

 

[Freelsy]

Of course you do, you're still a bok bok kiddo, this does not surprise me one bit. And you of all people have the audacity to complain about something being overpowered? Wow.

I never said its not overpowered. In fact, it is overpowered. Thus why I run it. I don't play the game to be chivalrous. i play the game to kill people, have powerful items and have fun. I can careless about RP'ing, or anything like that. I like solo peerless hunting and killing everyone and everything. That is my fun. I will use ALL THE TOOLS available to me, to include overpowered skills. Until they change it i will continue to run some form of it.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

just because you choose not to use smokebombs doesnt make them not overpowered combined with hide and stealth. It is like taming combined with hide stealth ninja it is just silly overpowered.
And taking advice from either you (cheapo) or rico on pvp is like taking english lessons from someone that only speaks chinese. I will give Ru some credit he understands the hide stealth detect template, but again last time he was around I killed his guildie right infront of his face. And it was only me and about 4 tnt.

Nice one on the chinese language thingy lol but regardless Rico spoke the truth and is probably why Ru has the most success with stealthers. Never said I was the baddest pvper on the shard. I am a murderer, nothing more and nothing less. If I see a guy with 2 guns in his hands and another with his pants down sitting on the toilet, im going cut the throat of the toilet sitter. So sue me. And as far as you killing 4 TnT... maybe you did but you did it with incredible faction gear, this is the real problem not stealthers. My case rest.

 

[Freelsy]

And as far as you killing 4 TnT... maybe you did but you did it with incredible faction gear, this is the real problem not stealthers.

Hugs, How did you kill people with faction gear? Is that a new leet hack? Are you throwing your super sweet fey leggings of deadlyness at people now? Last time I checked, faction gear was just a lil more powerful than regular items.

Also, goes back to my original point. You don't use all the tools available to you. The items are there for everyone. BUT YOU CHOOSE not to participate and take advantage of the system. No ones fault but yourself.

Also, he was killing people waaaaayyyy before faction gear came out... soooo, yeah.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Why do you always miss the point? I honestly dont have a problem with faction items, honestly I dont. The problem I have is with those items being blessed (can only be used by 1 player). just because it doesnt say blessed doesnt mean its not. By not allowing another player to use the item allows easy access for you to buy it back, thus making it a blessed item. No? And if you can have a blessed suit then why do i have to be forced to participate in factions just to have the same luxury as you by having a blessed suit? Why not just put insurance on siege? i mean it's already here isn't it?

 

[Hugibear]

I never said I killed all 4, i simply said that I smoked a guildie right infront of his face. And his tract detect was useless against me. I get more benefits from imbued gear than I do the faction arties.
Freelsy is correct, all we have here is another person living in 99, and expecting everyone else is still playing like its 1999. The game has evolved, so has most of its players. Just because you choose not to use things doesnt make it not over powered. Saying poisoning is the answer to anything in pvp is laughable, maybe in 99 it was the bomb diggity.
Your faction arties comment, just do what I do when I kill people like you. I trash the gear, you have the same option if you could kill someone like me.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

I wont say how i really feel about your comment because there are other people who may be enjoying the thread and i will not get it locked on the count of your comments, but read what you just wrote and let it soak for a few of tics. Now... don't you think you're only contributing to the problem?

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Or join factions so they can use faction runes to escape and keep their precious suits they are too scared to lose.

Amen.

But hey, "stealth" is the real problem!

 

[Draxous]

Rico explained in detail how to defeat a stealther... example.... Ru for instance...if Ru detected me and tried to fight me without poisoning me I would hand him buns every single time. But what gives him the edge and allows him to kill me the majority of times (not all) is that he's a pro at keeeping you poisoned, he has it down to an art. But I assure you if he approached me with his lil detect skills without his darts that he would never approach me again. He knows how to defeat a stealther but i promise it is more difficult for him to defeat Cheapsuit than most ninjas because I actually keeping 120 points in healing source unlike most ninja DS'ers. Learn to play or just ask Ru to teach you and stop all the crying.

Rico doesn't know what he's talking about.

And as for asking Ru... lol? You want me to ask a STEALTHER to teach me how to combat stealthers?

I don't need to ask him anything. I already know the answer. I need to be a stealther... gee.

 

[Draxous]

"Low hanging fruit" is no longer the goal really. Cal asked several months ago for that which could be easily implemented, we gave him an initial list, he shot all that down, we gave him another list and he opted to remove the daily RoT caps, which wasn't really even on the list and thats what we have. At this point, we are trying to determine other significant changes that can help the shard and we have gotten side tracked with this business of stealthers.

Whether that is really an issue that will offer this shard some significant help, I don't believe so, but it depends on who you ask. IMO, there are much more important things that could give the shard a much needed kick-start.

1. As much as I hate to admit it - Lowering the price of faction arties
2. Increasing the arty drops across the board:

Cursed Arties
Doom Arties
ML Arties
Tokuno Minors
Replica's, etc

3. Advanced Character Tokens

Unless Sieger's have had a complete change of heart over the last month, I think the majority agree's with those changes.

Whatever the list ends up being, we have to be united on it and make a hard push until Cal gets off his butt and takes care of it. Since he clearly isn't motivated, its something we'll have to fight for at this point.

If something isn't added to the list addressing the stealth problem, you can most likely forget about any united push for better monster loot.

Oh and they'll never remove greater dragons. Don't get your hopes up.


EDIT: Also who really cares about advanced char tokens? We already got the daily cap lifted... sounds like a waste of a wish to the genie.

 

[Timothy_SP]

Detect counters Hiding. At the delays are already pretty close between each.

Tracking counters Stealth.

Train the skills or stop whining.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

I never said its not overpowered. In fact, it is overpowered. Thus why I run it. I don't play the game to be chivalrous. i play the game to kill people, have powerful items and have fun.

KAT AND HER FOLLOWER'S PLEASE READ ABOVE AND BELOW


This is a post from BFF kat that you should take note of.....see....its called honesty.....he runs it cause its overpowered and likes to kill people....but has the brass nuts to call facts facts and champion a cause based on fact and logic...not on own personal gain,,,,even though hes useing it as such,,,,Most ALL BFF could run a hide stealther and destroy anyone at will...and most of us had run those templates in the past....but we can admit that its overpowered and needs fixing and wont bash the cause because we know in the bottom of our hearts.....we can survive very well on many templates because we know the mechanics on how to pvp...

thats why your opinion is so one sided its not funny....you dont want to get rid of it because you cant fight or survive with anything else...there isnt a person on this shard doesnt know the truth...about you and most of your guild...you just wont admit the truth.,,,which in essence would at least make you apear more credable...but when you fight for cause and try and convince us because of your Rhetoric....(Learn the Skill or Quit Whining) argument...you make yourself look dumber and dumber by the second, cause everyone knows the truth about you and most of your guild except you.,.,.,

now i know they dont play here much anymore as well as us...but this is purley based on YOUR motivation behind your posts....

Your exactly what yer accusing us of being...trying to change something for personell gain...difference between you and us is...were able to be honest with siege as well as ourselves and fight for the betterment of the pvp community and move toward change....Its painfully obvious why your opposing the cause...but your reasoning is based on pure unadultraded selfishness and in NO way better for anyone but you and your select few...

 

[Kat]

Fudd - Knock off the dramatics. Its as balanced as it gets. I am not going to change my opinion. Train the skills or shut up. Your choice.

 

[John Connelly]

This is a post from BFF kat that you should take note of.....see....its called honesty

I hope you are not serious with this post. Someone from BFF posts they have stealth on their template and it is overpowered therefore it must be. If I buy some faction artis and declare they are too cheap and the price should be increased would you be gullible enough to believe that too?

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Detect counters Hiding. At the delays are already pretty close between each.

Tracking counters Stealth.

Train the skills or stop whining.

What counters smoke bombs?

Hide plus stealth with Ninja with smoke bombs are damn near unstopable...were not even talking about removing smoke bombs...were not asking for Ninja to be changed....were not asking for hide to be nerfed...were only asking for passive detect to be implemented which in a nut shell...makes a stealther have to work a bit...even with passive detect its easy...but now...you will actually have to earn it a bit more....wow! is that to much to ask? Hell, id even still compromise and let you get max benifit with only having 75 skill points for stealth....but wow....were asking for to much huh?

what yer saying is....if you only ran two skills....Hideing and stealth and i only ran two skills.....detect and tracking your logic might come into play....but now see how wierd that sounds? No one is going to run two skills....what are the skills that are ran???

Hide/Stealth/Ninja/Tammer/ or archer/Bok and such....changes things a bit huh?


Train the skills or stop whining? By these very statments alone shows your lack of PvP knowledge and you loose all credability with everyone who's in the "Know"

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Fudd - Knock off the dramatics. Its as balanced as it gets. I am not going to change my opinion. Train the skills or shut up. Your choice.

Train the skills or shut up?

Your so underveloped as a pvper you couldnt admit it if You wanted to...your right...i should prolly forget about you.,..I cant blame you...you dont know what you dont know...

When a barn catches on fire and there are cows in it....they wont leave or try and escape...no one knows why...they just stay in there and burn...they dont even know enough to leave or walk out even if the doors open....guess i have to view you more like that ignorant cow...you dont even know you can leave...

 

[Elmer Fudd]

I hope you are not serious with this post. Someone from BFF posts they have stealth on their template and it is overpowered therefore it must be. If I buy some faction artis and declare they are too cheap and the price should be increased would you be gullible enough to believe that too?

No its called being honest...and if you dont get that....your way off base...i know why kat and her hand full dont want passive detect as well as everyone else in the know...its the fact there lieing about it and there motiviation is purley selfish based....sorry you couldnt get that


and its obvious you didnt even read my post, read the first paragrah again and again and then you will get my point....i didnt say anything about it must be so because BFF said it....I said its called honesty...

 

[Kat]

Elmer Fudd... Always the drama queen. I could sit here and insult you to death and act like an idiot, too, but you'll only beat me with experience.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Elmer Fudd... Always the drama queen. I could sit here and insult you to death and act like an idiot, too, but you'll only beat me with logic

<-----Fixed for you

Logic beat's pure emotion again....i admited your right with trying to convince you so i wont anymore....theres no point in trying to sway your barnyard thinking...its ok Kat...we understand where your at and your knowledge base....

 

[Kael]

So basically to sum up this thread

Only second rate pvpers or those "not in the know" use stealth so they can survive longer.

So by adding passive detect or removing the detect hidden timer people are going to pvp more and make factions more popular??

I know I haven't been active on Siege lately but when I stopped logging in Mystic Mages on Dread Mares seemed to be the OP template. Wouldn't looking at offensively OP skills or templates be more worthwhile of a fight rather than defensive skills??

 

[Elmer Fudd]

So basically to sum up this thread

Only second rate pvpers or those "not in the know" use stealth so they can survive longer.

So by adding passive detect or removing the detect hidden timer people are going to pvp more and make factions more popular??

I know I haven't been active on Siege lately but when I stopped logging in Mystic Mages on Dread Mares seemed to be the OP template. Wouldn't looking at offensively OP skills or templates be more worthwhile of a fight rather than defensive skills??

Hide/stealth and ninja mixed is extemely offensive as well as defensive....but the defence is so crazy out of whack it makes it over the top OP

I think personally myst mages are real close to OP...i just dont have the experience with them as much as Hide Stealth and were trying to move towards low hanging fruit...its a real easy fix to implement passive detect and at least at nothing else...the shard would prolly appear more populated by people being revealed occasionally.....lol

this thread is more of a continuation of the passive detect thread actually...and i personally wouldnt want the timer removed

 

[kelmo]

You folks do know if this thread gets locked for personal attacks the poll is done.

 

[Kat]

this thread is more of a continuation of the passive detect thread actually...and i personally wouldnt want the timer removed

I don't want it removed and you apparently don't want it removed... So you're here insulting me, why again?

 

[Timothy_SP]

Detect counters Hiding. At the delays are already pretty close between each.

Tracking counters Stealth.

Train the skills or stop whining.

What counters smoke bombs?

Hide plus stealth with Ninja with smoke bombs are damn near unstopable...were not even talking about removing smoke bombs...were not asking for Ninja to be changed....were not asking for hide to be nerfed...were only asking for passive detect to be implemented which in a nut shell...makes a stealther have to work a bit...even with passive detect its easy...but now...you will actually have to earn it a bit more....wow! is that to much to ask? Hell, id even still compromise and let you get max benifit with only having 75 skill points for stealth....but wow....were asking for to much huh?

The OP has nothing to do with Passive Detect. What Drax actually wants is the ability to re-use Detect Hidden skill with no, or greatly reduced, delay and still have the Hiding delay remain the same.

Smoke Bombs, and the required Ninja skill to use them, might be a point to argue, but nerfing Stealth is painting the issue with too broad a brush. Hiding and Stealth have been around for much longer than the skills that actually cause the imbalance. Even an argument for bringing back "counting steps" could be made I suppose, but I doubt that would be easy to re-implement. I was an effective thief before and after those changes.

what yer saying is....if you only ran two skills....Hideing and stealth and i only ran two skills.....detect and tracking your logic might come into play....but now see how wierd that sounds? No one is going to run two skills....what are the skills that are ran???

Hide/Stealth/Ninja/Tammer/ or archer/Bok and such....changes things a bit huh?

Besides the fact there are countless ways outside of Detect Hidden to reveal a Stealther, perhaps you could have a Detector as part of your hunting party?

The Stealth/Tamer issue isn't about the Stealthing, but more about the Taming. Stealth is not a PvP skill, the Taming combined with Stealth is. So if we are talking about making it harder, or impossible, to Stealth with a pet in tow, then we can have a conversation. Even making the use of Pet Summon Ball reveal the player sounds okay with me.

Train the skills or stop whining? By these very statments alone shows your lack of PvP knowledge and you loose all credability with everyone who's in the "Know"

You want to negate peoples skills points with nothing. There are skills that negate them. Not every Stealther is a PvPer. There are crafters, bards, thieves, RPers, and more I'm sure that use it for defense in PvM and PvP. If you want to find them, then work for it with skills.

The Stealth issue needs carved with a scalpel, not a chainsaw.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

I was an effective thief before and after those changes.

So you were a theif? or you still are a theif? and your main stay of a character on siege is a theif? and or you current template now is a theif?

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Does BFF stand for Best Friends Forever or Butt F****** F***? Are do those mean the same thing? Just curious.

BFF FTW!

 

[Vaelix]

Does BFF stand for Best Friends Forever or Butt F****** F***? Just curious.

Butt F***** F***

 

[Timothy_SP]

So you were a theif? or you still are a theif? and your main stay of a character on siege is a theif? and or you current template now is a theif?

I have the skills on Soul Stones currently. I have Magery skillset, a little taming, some crafting, Fishing, T-hunter, and Bardic skills on Stones also.

I'm currently a Co-leader of NEW, but have been a bit inactive due to work and family requiring a lot of my time. I've decided to try and give back to the Siege community a little.

The fact that I'm not playing a thief is due to many things, mainly population, but also because I enjoy other aspects of the game. I am definitely not anti-PvP/PKers'. I've been a PK in the past, but was never the greatest PvPer. I also don't Emo-rage-quit when I get killed in the field. There are many paths in this game and I've traveled most of them.

There are problems with balance, and Stealth does effect some of them, but what people are talking about is not balance, but nerfing to benefit themselves.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Besides the fact there are countless ways outside of Detect Hidden to reveal a stealther,

Stealth is not a PvP skil,

Non of us Pvpers could care less about revealing a stealther...we want a fair way to be able to kill a stealther...and currently, in the hands of a good Pvper...its almost impossible to kill them....

Stealth is a PvP skill, just like Anatomy...so yes....stealth is a PvP skill, because somone chooses not to use it towards PvP...doesnt mean it isnt...show me how Item ID can in anyway shape or form be used as a PvP skill and has aided anyone in the pusuit of killing another Toon?

Now please explain to me how Stealth can be used to kill another toon?

We know good and well there not going to implement the count yer stpes program....so here we have a stealther getting MAXIMUM offensive and defensive benefit from 75 skill points....so in order to work with the Low hanging fruit idea...passive detect is fair and just...its been proven over and over and over again....it works perfectly well and fair on other shards and its intended purpose is balanced for all...were just asking for it to not be invincible to kill someone...at least for the love of god i have somoene passivley being revealed every now and then.,...it gives a player a chance to survive as well as kill a stealther...even with passive detect its hard as hell to kill a stealther....right now.,..its almost imposible....and that sir is not fair and balanced at all

 

[The Cheapsuit]

We know good and well there not going to implement the count yer stpes program....so here we have a stealther getting MAXIMUM offensive and defensive benefit from 75 skill points.

Plz explain to us not so lucky to be top pvpers how you get maximum offensive benefit from 75 stealth.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Plz explain to us not so lucky to be top pvpers how you get maximum offensive benefit from 75 stealth.

With only 75 skill points your able to walk in stealth with unlimited movement with no chance of failure,

I even said a while back...i would be more on the side of stealth being "OK"

if somene had to have 120 stealth to have the ability to move non stop with no reveal and a very high chance of smoke bomb sucsess, that might be at least a bit more fair....based on logical skill reward/sucsess

Right now with 75 stealth...you will never fail a smoke bomb which i disagree with completly...if you only have 75 stealth you should only have like a 50% percent chance of sucsess,,,,kinda like fizziling a flamestrike as a mage...and when trying to walk non-stop with 75 stealth....for the love of god, you should at least fail much more often and reveal yerself when failed...right along with what armor yer wearing....right now.....impossible to kill a stealther....not imposible to reveal one....but almost imposible to kill one....hence....OP

 

[Kael]

So basically to sum up this thread

Only second rate pvpers or those "not in the know" use stealth so they can survive longer.

So by adding passive detect or removing the detect hidden timer people are going to pvp more and make factions more popular??

I know I haven't been active on Siege lately but when I stopped logging in Mystic Mages on Dread Mares seemed to be the OP template. Wouldn't looking at offensively OP skills or templates be more worthwhile of a fight rather than defensive skills??

Hide/stealth and ninja mixed is extemely offensive as well as defensive....but the defence is so crazy out of whack it makes it over the top OP

I think personally myst mages are real close to OP...i just dont have the experience with them as much as Hide Stealth and were trying to move towards low hanging fruit...its a real easy fix to implement passive detect and at least at nothing else...the shard would prolly appear more populated by people being revealed occasionally.....lol

this thread is more of a continuation of the passive detect thread actually...and i personally wouldnt want the timer removed

Yah ninja/hide/stealth can be offensive with the DS. But isn't that pretty well defended by not running?? Plus in order for that to be at maximum effectiveness wouldn't you would require using 120 ninja/100 hide/120 stealth along with 120 in a wep skill...i'm bad at calculations like this..Vaelix where are yah bud

I think using smoke bombs are pretty lame. I do use Kael mainly as a bok character ( in a support role ) but do not carry or use smoke bombs. I will ask this though...there are a couple of guilds that rely heavily on stealth forms to fight. Are they winning that many field fights that this is a such a huge issue or is it just that they are using in game mechanics/skills to avoid dying to you that is frustrating??

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Plz explain to us not so lucky to be top pvpers how you get maximum offensive benefit from 75 stealth.

With only 75 skill points your able to walk in stealth with unlimited movement with no chance of failure,

I even said a while back...i would be more on the side of stealth being "OK"

if somene had to have 120 stealth to have the ability to move non stop with no reveal and a very high chance of smoke bomb sucsess, that might be at least a bit more fair....based on logical skill reward/sucsess

Right now with 75 stealth...you will never fail a smoke bomb which i disagree with completly...if you only have 75 stealth you should only have like a 50% percent chance of sucsess,,,,kinda like fizziling a flamestrike as a mage...and when trying to walk non-stop with 75 stealth....for the love of god, you should at least fail much more often and reveal yerself when failed...right along with what armor yer wearing....right now.....impossible to kill a stealther....not imposible to reveal one....but almost imposible to kill one....hence....OP

Yeah I heard all that but what about the MAXIMUM offensive benefit?

 

[kelmo]

I was a faction thief... does not matter any more. In my opinion this stealth thing is much ado about nothing.

The Pvpers want targets. Those that want not to be PKed protect themselves. The skills are ok as is.

If you really want to kill militant stealthers... get the skills. Soulstones are easy.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Yeah I heard all that but what about the MAXIMUM offensive benefit?

If you have no chance of dieing...thats about as offensive as it gets...and If that needs to be explained further this conversation will have to stop here