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Gardeners, Water Pitchers, and the Magical Wave

DevilsOwn

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Is there a limited range to refill from a trough?

JC, a while ago I had a house just for gardening, and as long as I could target the trough I was able to fill the pitchers.... but I can't recall if I could do it say standing on the second level and targeting the trough on the first.... and Tina Small's experience in Haven is a broader range, yes?

but this is the more important bit of this change:

Sadly for that to mean something the replacemnt should be done at the same time it's taken away. But the real point is they are removing history,tradition. Yes it's small history but it's part of the vets history.
it's one of those little things that you learn somewhere along the way and it's no really huge thing, but it's fun ... and it really makes no sense to break this part when it's the water barrels that are the trouble, and for that matter, it's not even the darn barrels that are a problem, it's the people that place them to annoy others people, that's what should be dealt with

I'll shutup now, I'm ranting :(
 

RaDian FlGith

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
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Gardening scripts? Script gardening was running rampant? Are you ****ing moron or what?

Wheres the link to these scripts? As you would say.
I'm sure he couldn't link to them if he wanted to... they probably work with that program.

As for your other questions... sometimes things just don't need to be asked. Like, "Will the sun rise?" ;)
 

LordDrago

Certifiable
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As a funny sidenote. This change totally ruins some of the most popular gardening scripts, which is a likely *real* reason why some are complaining.

So hey, you anti-cheaters, shouldn't you be happy that it curbs cheaters? Or do you only want to do that as long as it doesn't directly affect you?
OK. Another post from Lord Clueless (errr Chaos...whatever).
What's next for you? The "cheat" that lets archers shoot without first clicking on their quiver to pull an arrow out? The "cheat" that lets characters auto engage when attacked?

To the Devs, if there is a program that auto-gardens, then attack the source please. Or "fix" water pitchers so that they can hold more (say 100) uses.
 
E

Eyes of Origin

Guest
Lame! I have a house I was using just for plants while I was playing and this is gonna freakin suck when I come back.
Whatever the reason is for this, I am sure there was something else that could've been done to "fix" the problem =/

leave pitchers alone =(
 

gunneroforgin

Slightly Crazed
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you can add my vote to keep the water pitcher fillable with multiple uses. As I use it to water plants, chicken eggs and water for the red ant queen. It has been a godsend to me. Please don't take it away!
 

Flutter

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Whoever posted that it's the scripters complaining about the change is an idiot. A scripter can just script in refilling the pitcher from the trough in their house and has no clicks to worry about at all.

It's everyone who doesn't script that's upset.
It's almost like the dev team is saying "You all should be scripting this crap what's wrong with you!"

I swear between the crafted scrolls not stacking on faction characters and this alone I am thinking they actually WANT people to script.
 

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
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I just did some experimenting on both Baja and on TC1 and here's what I found:

On both Baja and TC1, you can still stand just outside the bakery shop to the south of the Bottled Imp alchemy shop in New Haven (stand under the eaves) and fill your empty water pitchers from the water trough inside the bakery shop. If you are decide to run back to the bank and need to refill a water pitcher, as long as you haven't actually targetted some other object, you can refill your empty water pitchers if you're standing on the west side of the New Haven Bank by clicking on the empty water pitcher and then using a "Last Target" macro.

While working on cooking, you can also refill your pitchers from oh maybe one or possibly two houses away from the trough inside your own house by doing the same thing (i.e., click on the empty pitcher and then use your "Last Target" macro), as long as you haven't been targeting something else. Get too far away from the bakery shop's trough or your house's trough, and the trough is no longer recognized as the "last target." Even if you go up a few floors in your own house or moveto the other side of the inside of your house, you can still refill a water pitcher by clicking it and the using a Last Target macro.

You can also do this with ponds, such as the one next to the Zento bank or by the Zento stable, but the distance you can remove yourself from the pond before using the "Last Target" macro is measured in mere tiles.

Trying to refill a water pitcher while standing on the shore seems to have become difficult, if not impossible on TC1. Waves that used to work are now too far away to reach, and even the water next to you is too far away if your character's feet and the water are not on the same level.

If you are tending plants, you can refill a water pitcher from a water trough inside your house as long as your character can target at least a corner of the wooden frame of the water trough while still on the house plot. Clicking the pitcher and then using a "Last Target" macro of course won't work because one of your plant pots would be stored as the last target.

Some outdoor water troughs (e.g., at SOME public stables) are also still functional for filling up water pitchers while tending plants, as long as you can target some part of the frame of the water trough after clicking on an empty pitcher. However, if you want to use the outdoor water troughs at other similar stables, you have to be practically on top of the trough to take water out of it, even if you have a direct line of sight to the trough and there are no fences or other barriers in the way. For example, to use the troughs at the Zento stables, you have to stand practically on top of them. However, you can be almost off screen from the troughs at the Bucking Horse Stables in west Brit and still fill a water pitcher. Same goes for the troughs in the pen near the Skara Brae stable. The troughs at the Delucia, Luna and Umbra stables seem to be for appearance only--get too far away and you are told you're too far away to use them. Stand right next to them and they don't work at all. (I don't think the nonfunctional troughs are a new issue...I think many of them have never worked for as long as I've been playing.)

Totally unrelated but perhaps of interest for decorators is that you can still pick up many of the large and half barrels at stables on TC1 by emptying them (or if already empty and nonstealable, dumping in a pitcher of water and them emptying it).

Edited to add: Going to try reaching some waves in a boat on TC1 and see if the message that it is too far away still shows up and if the waves will still refill a pitcher.

Well, you can get to the waves in a boat and they will refill a pitcher if you're close enough. But, as expected, you can only fill the pitcher one time. You get the message, "Can't pour it there" if you click on a full pitcher and then click on a wave.

The screen shot below shows four wave caps close to the boat. The two to the left were useable and so was the closest one on the right. However, the one farthest away on the right (circled in red) was too far away to use while standing as shown in the boat.

 

TheGhostRaider

Journeyman
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Stratics Legend
"So Water pitchers can no longer be over filled," so this since not to be the problem right now since all the gardener like the convenience. I will said to get ride of the water barrel. What is the use of this barrel. Right now it seen to cause more problem that good. Sorry if some PvP love dropping those barrel all over Fel. So instead of changing the pitchers why not remove the water barrel for UO. Because to be honest, I hate refilling my pitcher every 5 times and this game is already fill of repetitive click so no need to add more. So DEV's hear us and stop making our life more painful. Leave our pitcher alone and vanish those stupid water barrel once for all.
 
C

Coppelia

Guest
Dear devs,

1. Bring your replacement
2. Fix the water pitcher

In that order.

Thank you!
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
I guess the cries to nerf gardeners was finally heard.

Overpowered green thumb bastards got what was coming to them......





Oh, and put the pitchers back. This was a boneheaded decision. You don't fix something by breaking another.
 

Lord Chaos

Always Present
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Whoever posted that it's the scripters complaining about the change is an idiot. A scripter can just script in refilling the pitcher from the trough in their house and has no clicks to worry about at all.
Or maybe its just you. If you read it again, THE CURRENT SCRIPTS DO NOT WORK IF THIS CHANGE IS IMPLEMENTED! While sure, some really crafty scripter could make changes to the script, but thats only very few that can do so and the gardening scripts as far as I can see are unsupported now and as such unlikely to see any such changes to them in any long forseeable future.

So yes, scripters are upset with this change, because now they can't script their garden tending. So no, not just legit players are upset with this change.

Funny enough, we've managed to tend gardens just fine without even being aware of this exploit/easter egg.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
Or maybe its just you. If you read it again, THE CURRENT SCRIPTS DO NOT WORK IF THIS CHANGE IS IMPLEMENTED! While sure, some really crafty scripter could make changes to the script, but thats only very few that can do so and the gardening scripts as far as I can see are unsupported now and as such unlikely to see any such changes to them in any long forseeable future.

So yes, scripters are upset with this change, because now they can't script their garden tending. So no, not just legit players are upset with this change.

Funny enough, we've managed to tend gardens just fine without even being aware of this exploit/easter egg.
Do you honestly believe yourself?

After these changes it's ONLY going to be scripters running large numbers of plants. The rest of us are pissed because we just got screwed because of a completely unrelated part of the game.
 

Lord Chaos

Always Present
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After these changes it's ONLY going to be scripters running large numbers of plants. The rest of us are pissed because we just got screwed because of a completely unrelated part of the game.
LOL, you're so full of yourself. First of all, its a few extra click, not the end of the world. Its not like you need the water pitchers constantly either. Also do like smart people do it, carry more than one pitcher, lol.

As I said, we've done gardening with no problem and weren't even aware that there existed such an exploit/easter egg in the game, so we did it the old fashioned way of refilling pitchers.
 

Lord Chaos

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Have you guys ever heard of the concept of having more than one pitcher? rolleyes:
 

Lady Aalia

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I grow plants, usually bout 150 at a time, sometimes more

The characters i have the plants on each has a bag with 5 pitchers and i have a trough in the room.

It works great the 5 pitchers are enough to usually finish a bag of plants and the refill is quick.
I dont think i have ever used one of those unlimited uses pot.

But i would appriciate some love :) to make it even easier
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
Have you guys ever heard of the concept of having more than one pitcher? rolleyes:
Have you ever heard of the concept that if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

How about cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Or the oldie but goodie about stabbing yourself in the back....
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
As I said, we've done gardening with no problem and weren't even aware that there existed such an exploit/easter egg in the game, so we did it the old fashioned way of refilling pitchers.
So everyone else should have to spend twice as much time (or more) because you were too dumb to figure out to make a magic pitcher?

No thanks. If you want to play harder instead of smarter then go for it, but the rest of us would prefer to keep tools that make our lives easier and don't unbalance anything in the game. Breaking an easter egg to fix a problem with something totally unrelated is not the way to go about things.
 

Lord Chaos

Always Present
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Well, now its fixed.

Its really kind of curious that people are ignoring all the other changes and taking this as the end of the world and an end to their gardening career.

The funny thing is that its only game stopping for cheaters, who will be stopped dead in track by this change.

True legit players will only have a minor inconvenience of having to carry many pitchers instead of one.

People in this thread are acting like they're part of the first group, while claiming they're the second.
 

Lord Chaos

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So everyone else should have to spend twice as much time (or more) because you were too dumb to figure out to make a magic pitcher?
lol, not knowing some obscure word of mouth exploit/easter egg is not = being dumb.

And how are you spending twice as much time? Fill 20 pitchers (UOA is great for this) and just use them, not really much more work than filling a magic pitcher.

No thanks. If you want to play harder instead of smarter then go for it, but the rest of us would prefer to keep tools that make our lives easier and don't unbalance anything in the game. Breaking an easter egg to fix a problem with something totally unrelated is not the way to go about things.
Its a minor inconvenience . Sure granted, I can see how it is annoying, but you guys are acting like its the end of the world...its only the end of the world for cheaters...oh wait, I thought you guys wanted to stop cheaters, but I guess you don't want to if it inconveniences your gameplay, heh.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
And how are you spending twice as much time? Fill 20 pitchers (UOA is great for this) and just use them, not really much more work than filling a magic pitcher.
Right now, we can spend 10 minutes filling a pitcher and then not have to worry about filling any more for a month or more. With the change we're having to fill constantly as we go along, which will at least double the amount of time that has to be spent each day.


Its a minor inconvenience . Sure granted, I can see how it is annoying, but you guys are acting like its the end of the world...its only the end of the world for cheaters...oh wait, I thought you guys wanted to stop cheaters, but I guess you don't want to if it inconveniences your gameplay, heh.
You don't combat cheating by screwing over those that don't cheat, but I guess we shouldn't expect any more than that from you.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
The funny thing is that its only game stopping for cheaters, who will be stopped dead in track by this change.
No, they won't. This won't slow them down in the least. They'll just add pitcher filling to their script. Man you really showed the ignorance with this one......
 

Lord Chaos

Always Present
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Stratics Legend
No, they won't. This won't slow them down in the least. They'll just add pitcher filling to their script. Man you really showed the ignorance with this one......
"their script", its not "their script", most scripters download scripts from other scripters, but have no real knowledge of how to make their own.

Changing very complex scripts to all of a sudden include water filling and possible movement is a big task to do for even those who knows how to script and as I can see, the main scripts are currently unsupported by their author, so it will be a long long time before there's any changes made to it to adapt.

I find it odd though that you are so eager to downplay gardening scripting, while overplaying the effect this change has on legit players...hmmmm
 

Lord Chaos

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Right now, we can spend 10 minutes filling a pitcher and then not have to worry about filling any more for a month or more. With the change we're having to fill constantly as we go along, which will at least double the amount of time that has to be spent each day.
ROFL, you only have to fill up a bit more often, with 20 pitchers you can do a lot of plants and the amounts of clicks are the same, its just broken up amongst more frequent refillings.

There's a lot of things about gardening that takes up a lot more time than filling pitchers, if you gardened legitly, then you'd know that.

You don't combat cheating by screwing over those that don't cheat, but I guess we shouldn't expect any more than that from you.
Uhm, lol? That has been the rallying cry of anti-cheaters since forever, having no problem screwing up legit players (as long as its not directly themselves), they don't even have a problem with shutting down the game.

Heck, just look at how legit players have been screwed up by anti-cheaters, turn-ins, randomized resources, etc. etc.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
There's a lot of things about gardening that takes up a lot more time than filling pitchers, if you gardened legitly, then you'd know that.
No, there isn't. Filling water pitchers takes more time than making pots or even planting seeds.

Oh, and I do garden legally. If you had any sense at all, you wouldn't have attempted to infer that I cheat, as everyone knows that I don't.

Seems to me you'd be the one more likely to cheat...
 
S

soulstoner

Guest
I grow plants, usually bout 150 at a time, sometimes more

The characters i have the plants on each has a bag with 5 pitchers and i have a trough in the room.

It works great the 5 pitchers are enough to usually finish a bag of plants and the refill is quick.
I dont think i have ever used one of those unlimited uses pot.

But i would appriciate some love :) to make it even easier
I was miffed at first by the announcement as I was utilizing the magical pitcher feature in my plant tendings. After reading your post I went on to tend my 30 plants with 5 standard water pitchers in pack purchased from the Inn Keeper. I have 2 troughs in my house mainly for deco (now for more than just deco) & only had to use one to refill 4 of my pitchers I'd used - and ya know - it was all fine and dandy. Thank you for the delicate reality check Lady.
 

Lord Chaos

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lol, everyone knows. Everyone sits and watches you play and sees your computer monitor every time you play.

The point being that no one can claim they don't cheat with proven certainty, as its just words. For you, for me, for anyone else.

Anyway, no, in gardening, breaking up your pitcher filling over more sessions doesn't take up more time than other parts of gardening, not by a long shot.

With that, I am done with you, no more derailing these threads with merry-go-arounds with you.
 

Black Sun

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My cook is very dismayed at this change too. I don't know if the "fix" will break existing pitchers, but just in case it doesn't, I'm going to make a few extras this weekend.
 

Lord Chaos

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Why are you very dismayed? You just have to break up filling pitchers into a little more often sessions, instead of once a month.
 

Black Sun

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Why are you very dismayed? You just have to break up filling pitchers into a little more often sessions, instead of once a month.
Don't try to pull me into one of your asinine arguments. It's a pointless change, it's an inconvenience for cooks and gardeners. I don't like it, because it was a real time saver for a lot of people.

You can run off at the mouth all you want about how it and anyone who wants it to stay like it is just supports scripters and cheaters, but you're not going to convince me. And no matter how many paragraphs you type on the subject, I'm not going to agree with you. So why not just save your time and move on, because I'm not going to bother replying to anything else you post.
 

Lady Aalia

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Here is my setup, works extremly well.

I grow all my plants on characters, it makes it much easier and i dont have to worry about them if i cant log in to tend them, since they wont grow again until i log that character in again.
 

ingsmsico

Visitor
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Just FYI, the ability to overfill water pitchers was not a bug, it was done on purpose to make the life of a gardener easier. That's the whole reason the magical wave was implemented in the first place.

Was there some particular issue that overfilled water pitchers were causing? If it was because barrels could be filled ad nauseum, how about making the barrels non-overfillable.

Don't make changes for the sake of making changes, please. I'm pretty sure no one was complaining about overfull water pitchers. Where in the world did this "fix" even come from?
i'm not so sure they implemented overfilled water pitchers on purpose for gardening, but I agree, there's no reason to get rid of a "feature" that was not causing any problems and in fact was beneficial

this is just another example of the developers being out of touch with the playerbase. I think they sometimes forget that this is a video game.
 

ingsmsico

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I highly doubt it was an easter egg. They simply never added a check to see if the pitcher was full. It is completely understandable. Why in the world would a water pitcher filled thousands of times be useful?

Gardeners complaining about this just need to install a water trough in their home.
seems you have also forgotten this is a video game.

I think what the posters here are saying is that the bug was in the game, then a Dev mentioned that since it was helpful to gardeners, they'd just leave it in. probably could be searched for on the old stratics board if that is possible.
 

hen

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Here is my setup, works extremly well.

I grow all my plants on characters, it makes it much easier and i dont have to worry about them if i cant log in to tend them, since they wont grow again until i log that character in again.

The only downside is the possibility that you die and don't get back to your body before it decays. It happened to someone a while back who was idling in their house when an invasion swept by.
 
S

soulstoner

Guest
Relevant information copied from the Pub 66 Thread

I wanted to let everyone know the fix with the water pitchers was to address an issue with water barrels. This was not meant to make it harder on cooks or gardners. We will see about giving you guys some watering love in the near future.
 

Lady Aalia

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The only downside is the possibility that you die and don't get back to your body before it decays. It happened to someone a while back who was idling in their house when an invasion swept by.
Yew was under heavy fire when the invasions where going on
But this is on the second floor and Door and Tele are set to friends only , so its save :)
 

Bobar

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I highly doubt it was an easter egg. They simply never added a check to see if the pitcher was full. It is completely understandable. Why in the world would a water pitcher filled thousands of times be useful?

Gardeners complaining about this just need to install a water trough in their home.
As I use my houses as display places they are both packed to the rafters. I had to push hard to make enough room for my chicken coops but that was fine - new items new requirements.

But now because of another change which nobody asked for you blithely say 'put in a water trough' all very well if you have plenty of room but I aint - space for me is at a premium and 3 spaces for an unnecessary water trough I can do without.
 

smip

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I concur, I have been overfilling my water pitchers for over 4 years now. Please Do Not take this away.:stretcher:
I have been over filling watter pitchers since water pitchers were there.... (well almost) At least since there was a need for the buggers.

By the way.. it's not just gardeners that need water.. what about cooks too.
 

DevilsOwn

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Bobar, you can chop a trough so it takes up just one tile, but do it quick, before they make goza mats useless rolleyes:
 

Lord Chaos

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let's clear this up (again): this change does not hurt someone who is scripting the tending of plants. it hurts those who do not script.

actually a scripter would not want to use an overfilled water pitcher because it will eventually deplete (right?) they would just use the water trough
Lets clear this up (again), current scripts *require* overfilled water pitchers, you cannot use water troughs or other methods.

Non-cheaters aren't really hurt, sure its an inconvenience, but its a minor one.
 

Gheed

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/signed

Please don’t fix pitchers. They are not the issue here. Please fix the water barrels. I'd be shocked if you saw a four page thread mostly condemning that.

I'm not sure if anybody knows the true origin of the wave trick.... bug or planned... but it is a true anomaly in UO. A tiny sliver of this game's charm and a point of discussion on many threads over the years. The wave trick is one of those neat little discoveries for noob gardeners and cooks that really makes life easier. Discovering it really makes you feel like you are more intimate in your knowledge of the game. Please let this remain an enigma. Please don’t defile it into a named artifact you fight a boss for or a game code token you buy.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Lets clear this up (again), current scripts *require* overfilled water pitchers, you cannot use water troughs or other methods.

Non-cheaters aren't really hurt, sure its an inconvenience, but its a minor one.
But you fail to account how easy it is to modify those same scripts to just look for trough to fill up when pitcher is empty. It's a breeze to change all current scripts to that.
 

jbfortune

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Anyone who doesn't see this as a bad change and says "you only have to click to fill up" is either an idiot or doesn't spend any amount of time gardening.

Why the hell would they remove something so many people use instead of just adding a cap to the water barrels? It makes no sense.

Setting, Dev meeting

Dev 1 - Ok, these water barrels are getting silly, we have to put a stop to it
Dev 2 - Agreed, what do you suggest
Dev 1 - Well, we can either put a cap on the barrels so they can't be over filled, this will only effect the people that like to over fill them
Dev 2 - That sounds a good idea, lets do that
Dev 1 - Well wait a minute, we could just remove the unlimited pictures. It's exactly the same amount of work for us but will effect cooks and gardeners and make what's a boring job anyway, that little more boring.
Dev 2 - Do that then, this game is about boring repetitive tasks anyway, might as well add in another one
 

jbfortune

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If u know what your doing with little effort and a few hours each day u can make millions with plants also, even on little 15 day trial accounts, which u cant do easily without gardening, considering u must gain skill etc to do so without gardening. Apperently some ppl cant think of ways to get past the system I dont garden nor do i care to, and half the ppl who garden in UO script garden maybe not the guys on here crying about there pitcher currently, but the majority of UO Scripts, get over it.
And I have no clue if your telling the truth about the pitchers being given by DEV i barely read boards they are full of ppl crying about one thing or another. OMG hes cheating, He killed me hes using speed hack cause he caught me while i tried to runz away... Etc... And If your wondering Ive played for over 10 yrs and ive never once heard until now that some DEV gave u guys said way to make the pitchers.
"If u know what your doing with little effort and a few hours each day u can make millions with plants also, even on little 15 day trial accounts, which u cant do easily without gardening, considering u must gain skill etc to do so without gardening."

"I dont garden nor do i care to,"

Yet you seem to be the authority on making money off it?

"i barely read boards "

"And If your wondering Ive played for over 10 yrs and ive never once heard until now that some DEV gave u guys said way to make the pitchers"

I can see you're not quite Legendary at arguing yet, don't worry, you'll get there
 

Shelleybean

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But you fail to account how easy it is to modify those same scripts to just look for trough to fill up when pitcher is empty. It's a breeze to change all current scripts to that.
I have no idea how scripting and cheating ended up a part of this thread. The overfilled water pitcher has been around for years, I think at least 10 or so. If I remember correctly, this was discussed on the MYUO forums with developers. It was deemed ok to do and it's even been incorporated into the gardening FAQ. UOKaiser is correct in that the proof is long gone. I have a UO Assist macro to fill my pitcher and I use said pitcher to tend to my plants. If over the years, players have found an unacceptable use for the water pitchers, then of course the developers need to fix the issue. My only wish was that an equally useful but harmless solution for gardeners was brought at the same time.
 
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