My solution to the Fel v Tram stuff that is always happening.

[Coragin]

Rough Draft.

I propose the following changes.

1. All Champ Spawns Drop the Same stuff Tram and Fel
2. A radius around each champ spawn will alllow for pvp IF you are in factions. (Everyone in Fel is pretty much in factions already anyways, Tram Champs only)
3. Reds can freely enter and adventure in Trammel, however cannot attack anyone unless they and their opponent are both in a faction and both in a champ spawn area. They can also attack the same faction.
4. On death, Reds will only be able to ressurect in Fel, with a 20% skill loss in all skills as it used to be.
5. If rival factions are not in a faction base or set area around it or a champ spawn, no combat can ensue, Tram only.
6. If attacked by a rival faction member and you run and do not attack, you can run out of the area of pvp and halt the battle. However if you attack someone and run out of the area of pvp, the battle will still ensue.
7. Sigils and Faction bases will exists on both Trammel and Fellucia.
8. Red cannot have the guards called on them in trammel to guard wack them and force a 20% loss in skills.
9. If you are in a faction and you enter a pvp area in Trammel your cursor will change and you will hear the desolation noise informing you that you entered a pvp area.
10. Replicas and power scrolls will drop from all champs spawns regardless of facet, in trammel only faction members can attack each other.
11. Non Faction members in Trammel cannot party with, heal, cure or otherwise help a faction member in a pvp area in trammel.
12. If you are carrying a town sigil in trammel same rules apply, no recall, no gating except moongates and are able to be attacked and defend so long as you have a sigil in your possession.

What does this do? Well lets examine the complaints I am sure will follow this post.

1. Non-Faction members will be able to farm PS. Yea so? Big deal let them play how they want to play. Dont mean you cant kill off more spawn than they can and do mroe damage to the boss and get scrolls yourself too.

2. Reds will lose skills on death. Yes there should and always should be a harsh penalty for being a murderer, but in Trammel only faction members may attack a red. More freedom for Reds, but it also coems with a price.

3. PS in Trammel, they belong in fel, its all we got! Wrong, opening up champ spawn areas for faction pvp now evens the field and pvpers can get what they have been asking for, a way to kill the faction deserters who farm trammel.

4. Trammies pancakes about faction guilds killing champs they worked up and getting a share of the scrolls, oh well, its a price you have to pay for having PS available in Tram.

5. People pancakes about attacking someone and they run to a safe zone. Well, people run as it is now, nothing different. Except a little easier to run in Tram.

The Pros!!!
1. Reds having more areas to adventure if they so choose to. PvP or PVM, now reds can farm arties in doom as well.
2. Full guilds can have their whole guild to do peerless and such without a few havign to sit it out and wait.
3. Tons more champ spawns to do, two of each dungeon spawn, plush Ilsh.
4. Allowing people who will never ever set foot in Fel to do champ spawns and gain something.
5. More places to pvp. Ilsh champs would be a fun pvp area!
6. Harrowers available in both facets.
7. Oaks skull more easily obtainable, lets fact it T2A oaks spawn sucks!

So yea you would have some pure trammies doing champ spawns, but that is not such a big deal, its actually rather good for the over inflated economy. But it also opens all the guilds in factions who never do Fel to have a little more danger.

Finally, these changes I propose are for the following reasons, I like pvp, I like the rush of doing champs with my guild and defending champs. I do not like that if we decide to abandon a champ on a raid the raid will chase me down everywhere until I die. It is obvious the person running dont want to fight, chasing them for 20 minutes to kill them for 5k gold in insurance is stupid. BUT, to make it so if me and a friend are doing a champ and get raided by 5 or 6 we can run to safety and not have our play time stopped for 20 minutes. Bringing Faction PVP and Reds to Tram is a good idea if handled correctly. I believe that pvp everywhere in tram would not work, many players faction or not would complain. However, limiting pvp in tram to factions, only in the areas of champ spawns, faction bases and town sigil areas makes it fun while not interfering too much in the trammel area. Sort of making it a pvp CHOICE while being able to enjoy all the lands the game has to offer.

Please dont turn this into a pissing contest and dont try to accuse me of alterior motives for this suggestion, its for the better of the whole game and lets fact it, it is time for a change. This might just bring some change that is much needed for the pvp community allowing them to venture out to more areas and lands. My background? Im in a faction guild who does Fel, so dont accuse me of wanting to have this so my blue can farm scrolls, I would be attackable on sight.

Any changes you would make or items you dont like? Discuss.

 

[Uvtha]

Putting fel stuff in tram will make fel pointless. Change all of your text to "Make everything tram ruleset, and allow factions everywhere.". Save some time.

 

[Coragin]

Putting fel stuff in tram will make fel pointless. Change all of your text to "Make everything tram ruleset, and allow factions everywhere.". Save some time.

Obviously you didnt take the time to read the entire post word for word. Because Fel would stay the same. Reds would be allowed in Trammel, its addign more diversity to a dying area of the game. PVP is a big part of UO and making it only exist in factions is not the answer, but this also adds mroe options to the pvp table. While also adding stuff for blues. Granted Tram side would be faction only pvp and only in certain areas, but people have been asking for this. I dont think all of Tram should be faction pvp, but some areas yes.

 

[Uvtha]

Yeah I read it. And like I said if you take the fel stuff from fel and put it in tram there is zero reason to ever do it in fel. You idea would not help pvp, it would kill it. If people don't HAVE to pvp for something, then they wont. Thats just how things work, its foolish to not take the path of least resistance. Going somewhere where people can kill you to get something you can get without pvp... it just wont happen. Its like a pack of wolves fighting over a live deer, when theres a slab of raw beef a block over.

What I suggested was what you should have put. Not what you were suggesting. I think both ideas are bad as well. If you hadn't guessed.

 

[Coragin]

If people don't HAVE to pvp for something, then they wont. Thats just how things work

If you honestly believe that, then pvp is already dead. My guild loves to pvp, many love to pvp. Just cause some dont, does not mean that these people who like it would not like this idea and that it is a bad idea. Champs being done in Tram poses the same threat as doing them in Fel, the only difference would be in Tram you can escape if out numbered, can run through monsters, which would actually test the players skill more, rather than someone getting trapped behind a ton of rats and getting killed by mages from a far.

Heck even add it to peerless areas! But leave some areas where a factioneer can sit chill relax and just mindless pvm if they so choose. I know I like to do that from time to time. Not often, most of the time its champs, but sometimes I will pvm for an hour or so to relax.

 

[Evlar]

These were my suggestions...

http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1722779&postcount=22

Reason?

Seems everyone is in their own "camp" of opinion. Trying to pull an already fractured player base together seems pointless and serves to cause more friction. Why not just give each camp what they want and have done with it.

 

[Uvtha]

If you honestly believe that, then pvp is already dead. My guild loves to pvp, many love to pvp. Just cause some dont, does not mean that these people who like it would not like this idea and that it is a bad idea. Champs being done in Tram poses the same threat as doing them in Fel, the only difference would be in Tram you can escape if out numbered, can run through monsters, which would actually test the players skill more, rather than someone getting trapped behind a ton of rats and getting killed by mages from a far.

Heck even add it to peerless areas! But leave some areas where a factioneer can sit chill relax and just mindless pvm if they so choose. I know I like to do that from time to time. Not often, most of the time its champs, but sometimes I will pvm for an hour or so to relax.

Yeah I get that people love to pvp. I play on siege after all. People also like to have a reason to pvp. It makes it feel less pointless when you run around fighting the same people over and over.
Now then, if you take the exclusive nature of these items away, fel will be dead, especially "target" players like those who dont normally pvp but rather go because they want something.
Pvpers will use pvm characters to get the things they want, then they will go to where ever the best spot is for run around pvp (yew on prodo shards, luna on siege) with their pvp characters, and eventually get bored. Maybe they will try to do a baracoon in fel, then they realize that its pretty hollow to fight over something you can get in tram.

I think putting factions everywhere is a good idea, but if you did so, people would still take thier pvmers to peerless, and the abyss, because thats just how it goes. A goal is presented, people will use the easiest method to attain that goal. Not to mention the fact that when lets say a faction guild rolls down to oh I dont know...medusa, and realizes that the non factioners are just rocking the medusa unmolested beside them, and that they have zero control over the area, or its resources they will have a "whats the point of this" moment pretty fast.

I'm all for expanding where and how pvp can happen, but you have to leave the pvp rewards to the pvp area, and the pvm rewards to the pvm area.

 

[Violence]

An Event gone bad, and we all become experts in formulating plans about changing the game to fit our choices.....?

PVP isn't dead Coragin. Us Feluccans PVP even WITHOUT any incentive OTHER than fighting itself!

It's the Trammel side that keeps wanting more rewards with less risk, or to bring the game in their field, or shape it so that they enjoy it more.

If you're not ready to fight just for the sake of it you probably have no place in Felucca, and can't really grasp the meaning of it. Don't assume to propose anything about something you don't understand, then.

Some of you don't want to fight other people? Fine. Why should you be offered incentive to do so?... Seriously. Who actually invited you again? No offense but the lot of you posting rants about this Event are sooooo self-centered and feel the need to be needed...

What a mess. I hope they NEVER, EVER organise an Event like that. It gives people some very twisted ideas and impressions about Felucca.

And if you think Feluccans are all bullies or whatever you should make a PVPer, join a Fel-based guild and their Vent channel or something and then you tell me if these people(us) sound like what you make us to be.

Sorry to say this, but **** off. Some of you are really insulting, I hope they give you EVERYTHING that you can find in Felucca, in Trammel, so that you simply stop whining...!!

 

[Uvtha]

These were my suggestions...

http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1722779&postcount=22

Reason?

Seems everyone is in their own "camp" of opinion. Trying to pull an already fractured player base together seems pointless and serves to cause more friction. Why not just give each camp what they want and have done with it.

I think that thats a better solution honestly. Regardless on whether you were for or against the tram fel split, they did it in a horrible way and the rule set has been awkward and troublesome ever since. I don't see how it will ever really be fixed. I really just wish they would make a new game, with new cohesive graphics, and a well thought out game world with a unified ruleset with places for everyone.

I know there will always be people who wont want pvp specific rewards and people on the other hand who dont want any limitation of who they can or cannot kill, but both groups are wrong if you ask me. The BEST game would have a cohesive mix of pvp and pvm all in the same world, with a good reason in game as to why.

I'm against (ideally) in the splitting of the play styles because sometimes people might want to broaden their horizons and try something new. But if all the rpers are on one server, and all the trammies are on another server, and all the pvpers are on yet another server, the lack of co-mingling ideas and play styles will end up discouraging that kind of change.

 

[Coragin]

An Event gone bad, and we all become experts in formulating plans about changing the game to fit our choices.....?

PVP isn't dead Coragin. Us Feluccans PVP even WITHOUT any incentive OTHER than fighting itself!

It's the Trammel side that keeps wanting more rewards with less risk, or to bring the game in their field, or shape it so that they enjoy it more.

If you're not ready to fight just for the sake of it you probably have no place in Felucca, and can't really grasp the meaning of it. Don't assume to propose anything about something you don't understand, then.

Some of you don't want to fight other people? Fine. Why should you be offered incentive to do so?... Seriously. Who actually invited you again? No offense but the lot of you posting rants about this Event are sooooo self-centered and feel the need to be needed...

What a mess. I hope they NEVER, EVER organise an Event like that. It gives people some very twisted ideas and impressions about Felucca.

And if you think Feluccans are all bullies or whatever you should make a PVPer, join a Fel-based guild and their Vent channel or something and then you tell me if these people(us) sound like what you make us to be.

Sorry to say this, but **** off. Some of you are really insulting, I hope they give you EVERYTHING that you can find in Felucca, in Trammel, so that you simply stop whining...!!

Sicklover, I never said PVP is dead. There is nothing I hate worse than some jackoff coming into a thread and putting words in my mouth. I said if he honesty believed that then pvp was already dead. Did you read my sig? Co-Founder of MBS? A guild on Origin who is 100% Fel! Dont go passing judgement on me without knowing who I am or from other topics.

I happen to have pvp toons! Dont tell me to make one when I already have 4. Or 5, I cant remember, its been two months tops since I played. But not all feller pvpers are bullies MOST can be though. Im not one to attack or kill someone on sight just to do it, but I will kill someone I dont like, or is in an opposite faction, or fight with my guild.

Dont claim to know me or my intentions because you have read other posts I recently posted. I have the ability to see all sides of gameplay and can be indifferent and listen to both sides and try my best to find some kind of middle ground.

People have asked for faction pvp in tram for a long time, this is one way to get that to happen. But as was stated, why have faction pvp in tram if there is NO REWARD? Most pvp is in factions already, so its not a big deal to add the champs of tram to the list of drops, allow faction pvp there, and also allow reds in tram.

DUH!

 

[Connor_Graham]

If you're not ready to fight just for the sake of it you probably have no place in Felucca, and can't really grasp the meaning of it. Don't assume to propose anything about something you don't understand, then.

And since you can't grasp the meaning of "I play UO for my own enjoyment, not so I can be someone else's" then you probably shouldn't be discussing this in the first place. Don't presume to make judgements on players about whom you understand nothing. When one playstyle is rewarded to the detriment of all of the others you have what is known as a "bad design decision". What you don't have is a leg to stand on when trying to tell other players that their playstyle is unimportant because a very small minority of players need to kill fish in a barrel in order to feel fulfilled. This choice of the Devs was nothing more than them throwing PK'rs a bone, as having the book location on an island with no way off was nothing more than that, fish in a barrel. Reading the general chat in game that day was more like watching a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy than playing UO.

What I find hilarious are all of the posts and threads created about ways to bring people to Fel, while the people that are already in Fel are doing everything they can to turn other players off from wanting to go there. Watching counterproductivity is always good for a laugh or 2.

 

[Coragin]

Evlar that is also another good idea. Problems would be farming scrolls on a non pvp server and xfer to a pvp server to sell. Havign to start over on another shard for those of us who like to pvp. Maybe allow a one time only free transfer on each toon to the pvp servers.

I however would like to see pvp on all servers, maybe like I suggested pvp through factions in tram and full out pvp in fel.

But make no mistake I love your idea too, having two sandboxes catering to each crowd makes sense as well.

 

[Connor_Graham]

People have asked for faction pvp in tram for a long time, this is one way to get that to happen. But as was stated, why have faction pvp in tram if there is NO REWARD? Most pvp is in factions already, so its not a big deal to add the champs of tram to the list of drops, allow faction pvp there, and also allow reds in tram.

DUH!

I'd be 100% against ruining the PvM champs simply so factions can take place in the Tram ruleset. I happen to enjoy running champs, and did so even before they had artifact and replica drops. I have no problem with reds in Tram, but I do not want powerscrolls and PvP around the Ilsh champs. There is zero reason for adding more PvP areas and taking away from the largest group of players simply so a minority can have more area to PvP in when Fel is already empty as it is. If you don't want Tram players wearing faction items, then make them so they fall off of the char if they're in Tram. Don't take systems away from the rest of the players because a few want the rewards without taking the inherent risk that's supposed to be involved in using them.

 

[Winker]

Lets not forget, Felucca was here first. It is the way the game was originally meant to be played. Stop crying coz you got killed in fel, If you cant survive alone go down with a bunch of friends. If you still find you are unable to hold a champ spawn, do doom instead, sell the arties you get and buy the power scroll you need.

Felucca is the original game, Trammel is the watered down version of the game. The game was meant to be a challenge with risk vs reward. Trammel does not offer the risk vs the reward.

Funny thing is you don’t see the people who live and play in felucca cry that we don’t have doom arties in fel or we don’t have any new content/arties in fel for god knows how long (except being allowed in to the 2 new champ spawns from SA)

Join a Felucca guild learn to PvP. Then and only then can you make comments on how felucca should be run, other wise STFU and get on with your watered down game play and enjoy it!

 

[maroite]

The problem isn't Tram, nor is it Felucca. Its the people in those places.

The problem is people in Felucca are targeting the wrong people. Instead of buddy buddying each other, and eating biscuits and sipping tea when no trammies are sneaking over to Fel, reds in Fel should be killing other reds.

Only seems logical if you truly want good pvp that is.

If you're just a lame griefer like so many seem to be, I suppose you'd never do this and just wait for "trammies" to come over.

If pvping was the mainstay of the game for me though, I think I would want the best challenge I could possibly find, and for some reason... I just don't think that Trammies give that.

On the other hand, other experienced reds seem to be ripe delicious targets for challenging and exciting pvp.

 

[Coragin]

And since you can't grasp the meaning of "I play UO for my own enjoyment, not so I can be someone else's" then you probably shouldn't be discussing this in the first place. Don't presume to make judgements on players about whom you understand nothing. When one playstyle is rewarded to the detriment of all of the others you have what is known as a "bad design decision". What you don't have is a leg to stand on when trying to tell other players that their playstyle is unimportant because a very small minority of players need to kill fish in a barrel in order to feel fulfilled. This choice of the Devs was nothing more than them throwing PK'rs a bone, as having the book location on an island with no way off was nothing more than that, fish in a barrel. Reading the general chat in game that day was more like watching a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy than playing UO.

What I find hilarious are all of the posts and threads created about ways to bring people to Fel, while the people that are already in Fel are doing everything they can to turn other players off from wanting to go there. Watching counterproductivity is always good for a laugh or 2.

Connor, once again you make a post that is totally right on subject and case in point very good post. bravo my friend.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Lets not forget, Felucca was here first. It is the way the game was originally meant to be played.

Which failed miserably, so Tram had to be introduced in order to keep the game going, because it would have shut down if the mass exodus hadn't been stopped. Funny how you guys keep ignoring this little tidbit of information. rolleyes:

Regardless of how the game started, that is the past, and a far past at that. UO has been more about PvM than PvP for most of its life. That's what you need to be evaluating, not where it started from (and had to leave from soon after its inception). Only having 1 ruleset 13 years ago means nothing to what today's players are looking for.

 

[Evlar]

These were my suggestions...

http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1722779&postcount=22

Reason?

Seems everyone is in their own "camp" of opinion. Trying to pull an already fractured player base together seems pointless and serves to cause more friction. Why not just give each camp what they want and have done with it.

I think that thats a better solution honestly. Regardless on whether you were for or against the tram fel split, they did it in a horrible way and the rule set has been awkward and troublesome ever since. I don't see how it will ever really be fixed. I really just wish they would make a new game, with new cohesive graphics, and a well thought out game world with a unified ruleset with places for everyone.

I know there will always be people who wont want pvp specific rewards and people on the other hand who dont want any limitation of who they can or cannot kill, but both groups are wrong if you ask me. The BEST game would have a cohesive mix of pvp and pvm all in the same world, with a good reason in game as to why.

I'm against (ideally) in the splitting of the play styles because sometimes people might want to broaden their horizons and try something new. But if all the rpers are on one server, and all the trammies are on another server, and all the pvpers are on yet another server, the lack of co-mingling ideas and play styles will end up discouraging that kind of change.

I'm also very much against splitting of play styles. That's why I didn't like the Tram/Fel split either. Sadly, if these forums are anything to go by, each "group" has their own agenda and nobody seems to understand or care why the other likes to do what they do.

Perfect world would of course be a cohesive mix of all aspects. Clearly it's not working though. The problems are also exacerbated by some of the poorly thought out and implemented changes over the years. In fairness to the current dev team, they're not responsible for most of them. They just had to pick up the pieces others have left them to work with.

I think the thing I find most amusing of all this, is when those who have no desire to "fight" with others in the game, are as hasty as you like to "fight" against the PvP'ers/classic sharders/Siege-Mugen players on the forums.

 

[Coragin]

Another suggestion I would make.

Have a "General" or similar in every city. This guy gives a quest that is nothing more than a switch to turn on PVP for that char world wide. Once its on it cant be turned off. You could then pvp anywhere and everywhere outside of town of coarse. This would have the following effects....

PVP could not heal or group with non pvp, and vise versa.

All new toons would start out as non-pvp, but when you visit the general you can choose pvp, then its pvp anywhere. and have your name change from blue to purple (red and gry would also be pvp for obvious reasons). Green and Orange as well.

Now both sides of the sandbox can co-exist in the same world. Those who want to pvp can, those who dont want to dont have to.

 

[Magdalene]

4. On death, Reds will only be able to ressurect in Fel, with a 20% skill loss in all skills as it used to be.

Any death or death by other player? If you make it any death I can see HUGE potential for luring and other trammy-kill tactics to grief the bad murderers...

7. Sigils and Faction bases will exists on both Trammel and Fellucia.

What for exactly? Oh, and it's Felucca...

12. If you are carrying a town sigil in trammel same rules apply, no recall, no gating except moongates and are able to be attacked and defend so long as you have a sigil in your possession.

The whole sigil carrying thing in Trammel makes no sense, if you make it faction PvP in certain areas only - 10 people can attack sigil carrier but nobody can attack them in a non-PvP zone?

The whole "I'm out of the zone you cannot attack me, neener neener" idea is... just bad.

 

[Evlar]

Lets not forget, Felucca was here first. It is the way the game was originally meant to be played.

Which failed miserably, so Tram had to be introduced in order to keep the game going, because it would have shut down if the mass exodus hadn't been stopped. Funny how you guys keep ignoring this little tidbit of information. rolleyes:

I think there was a lot more to it than that Connor, so rolling it out as the only view, is flawed I'm afraid. Yes, it was an important factor which lead to Trammel, but it wasn't the only reason, or the only solution they could have used.

Other games were made, looked at some of the failings within UO, then offered what UO couldn't. Of course people were going to leave. The knee-jerk reaction from the UO devs at the time, was to try to offer what the others were offering. It's for the very same reason AoS came to pass.

Instead of trying to work towards better solutions to problems within their own product, they looked externally to what appeared to be successful in other games. Was it good for UO? Well, that's entirely open to debate.

Had they offered something along the lines of what I've suggested, or what Coragin suggested in the OP, I don't think we would have half the problems we have now. Every "group" would have what they want.

 

[Violence]

I'll skip the rest for obvious reasons, and move straight to you saying..

"..So it's not a big deal to add the Champs of Trammel to the list of drops, allow Faction PVP there, and also allow reds in Trammel."

The question remains, why do it when one can simply go to Felucca to achieve the same resulting experience? I'm saying it's not needed.
PVP in Trammel, Factions-only, would be fun potentially. This however will not be accepted by Trammel players who only joined Factions to wear the items safely in Trammel. Ironic. And then, really, WHY? Because people do not want to step into Felucca without reward? Aren't the scrolls enough?

But... You're talking rewards again. At this point with your insistence I must assume you propose what you do solely for the rewards. Fighting is its own reward, and has its own facet and its own incentive. You're only trying to shape it in a way you like it or bring it to your back-yard for no apparent reason, throwing in REWARDS for doing so. See what I'm saying now?

You have PVP toons? O'RLY...? Since when does that make you a PVPer at heart? You don't seem to be thinking like one, or stopped doing so the moment you brought up REWARDS again. Sure, you're trying to be open-minded and have a spherical point of view... By suggesting things that suit you most, as I see.. rolleyes: Maybe you do have a lot of PVP experience and fight daily but you seem to not like it if you want to change where and how and why it happens.

"I play UO for my own enjoyment, not so I can be someone else's."
Oh, you feel that coming to Felucca is not for your own enjoyment? Sorry, didn't care enough to notice, just don't come then? In the same line of thinking I stay out of Trammel as much as I can. I only trade there! My PVM experience is narrowed down to Fel Champ spawns protecting those who farm them. You don't get it do you? I don't WANT you to be my "enjoyment". By all means, stay in Trammel. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you what you COULD do to avoid feeling intentionally be-littled.

"Then you probably shouldn't be discussing this in the first place."
Seems like I probably should be, though.

"Don't presume to make judgements on players about whom you understand nothing. When one play-style is rewarded to the detriment of all of the others you have what is known as a "bad design decision"."
To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing and be nothing. Otherwise live with it.. rolleyes:
No-one's play-style was rewarded to the detriment of others'. Your precious Event had you coming to Fel IF YOU WANTED TO COME. That's all that happened. And you're making a fuss about it, suggesting UO revolves about YOU forced to come into Felucca getting killed.. Wow. Just.. Wow..

"What you don't have is a leg to stand on when trying to tell other players that their playstyle is un-important because a very small minority of players need to kill fish in a barrel in order to feel ful-filled. "
You don't get it.. No one needs to kill YOU to feel like an achiever, self-centered ego-maniac. Stay in Trammel, we won't miss you, sorry! Your play-style I have nothing against. But I refuse to sugar-coat it all, you're at fault whining about this Event and generalizing no end.

"This choice of the Devs was nothing more than them throwing PKs a bone, as having the book location on an island with no way off was nothing more than that, fish in a barrel. Reading the general chat in game that day was more like watching a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy than playing UO."
And your choice was to be a fish in a barrel. Bad choice! No, let me take that back- It was a BADLY EXECUTED choice. Reading your replies to mine is like watching a very hurt, very inflated Ego than being constructive too.

"What I find hilarious are all of the posts and threads created about ways to bring people to Fel, while the people that are already in Fel are doing everything they can to turn other players off from wanting to go there. Watching counter-productivity is always good for a laugh or 2. "
Have you ever considered most of those posts were made by people who thought they were PVPers at heart(much like Coragin) only to later find they were trying so much to turn Felucca into Trammel Jr. because they couldn't adapt to the style and that they ceased so to speak, heading back to the style that fits them most? And I'm not using this as a derrogatory or defamatory or diminishing re-mark at all. Most Feluccans don't really care, at any time there was always a core of 3-4 major guilds in Felucca competing against each other and we're fine by ourselves, if bringing more people in means implementing queer ideas that will twist OUR play-style. No thanks. Let alone ideas that will "force"(since you bring it up a lot) us to be in Trammel just so you can have your "PVP" rewards.

So Connor and Coragin, I think you are going crazy over nothing as I said, and I don't think I'll be replying at all. You don't really deserve more of my Net time wasted.

 

[Coragin]

4. On death, Reds will only be able to ressurect in Fel, with a 20% skill loss in all skills as it used to be.

Any death or death by other player? If you make it any death I can see HUGE potential for luring and other trammy-kill tactics to grief the bad murderers...

7. Sigils and Faction bases will exists on both Trammel and Fellucia.

What for exactly? Oh, and it's Felucca...

12. If you are carrying a town sigil in trammel same rules apply, no recall, no gating except moongates and are able to be attacked and defend so long as you have a sigil in your possession.

The whole sigil carrying thing in Trammel makes no sense, if you make it faction PvP in certain areas only - 10 people can attack sigil carrier but nobody can attack them in a non-PvP zone?

The whole "I'm out of the zone you cannot attack me, neener neener" idea is... just bad.

4. Only pvp death, but now as you state can cause problems, maybe go back on this one.

7. To have fun.

12. As I said rough draft and I didnt think about that, but 10 allied factioneers can heal the sigil carriers.

But good points.

 

[Coragin]

So Connor and Coragin, I think you are going crazy over nothing as I said, and I don't think I'll be replying at all. You don't really deserve more of my Net time wasted.

Thank you God! You wont be missed from this discussion. As others are trying to be constructive, discussing, you seem to be choosing to attack me and Connor and ignoring everything else posted that proves how other options may in fact help the game as a whole. We dont need your short sightedness. Please just dont reply, you offer nothing to the conversation other than attacks. In short...

You are not welcome here in this topic, public board or not as you offer nothing to it.

 

[Violence]

I know now that you are the Lord and King of UHall and ask only but a simple favour, to allow me to post one single more reply, only to acknowledge in public your absolute reign, before accepting and facing my just and righteous punishment as brought onto me by your Enforcer Of Laws, the High UHall Inquisitor Connor, and being cast into endless isolation caused by my own insolence and ignorance....

I shall never again doubt your motives and decisions and repent for being arrogant. All hail your decisions whatever those may be! All hail your indomitable fighting spirit and rightfull opinions..!

I bow down before your reasoning! You have shown this dog that I am, its proper place, in a manner none can question! Let this thread be a testament to your efforts towards creating a better future for all! I shall now depart in shame on a quest to be a better person!

..
...
....
.....

 

[Casca_The_Immortal]

Thank you God! You wont be missed from this discussion. As others are trying to be constructive, discussing, you seem to be choosing to attack me and Connor and ignoring everything else posted that proves how other options may in fact help the game as a whole. We dont need your short sightedness. Please just dont reply, you offer nothing to the conversation other than attacks. In short...

You are not welcome here in this topic, public board or not as you offer nothing to it.

I'm not trying to attack you, it's just that I've had about enough of this whole "Poor me I'm a trammie" stuff from everyone. If you want powerscrolls you can buy them from the fel players that spend serious time in game learning how to keep their spawns and get them.

Power scrolls are for advanced players and there is no reason why a trammie running around in a samurai helmet, ember leggings, and a holy knight's breast plate - holding a soul seeker needs to be 120 anything.

The reason your character is getting owned is because you folks have no concept of how to play the game and put together a suit. This lack of knowledge is why you think everyone in fel cheats. If your suit sucks ass so do you. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with the skills after say.... GM and I can prove it.

Put anyone in the aforementioned stuff and I'll get on almost any template with GM only skills and kill them 20 times.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No-one's play-style was rewarded to the detriment of others'.

Do you honestly believe your own bull****? This statement alone shows how full of it your post is. For not being rewarded, there sure were a hell of a lot of delirously happy PK'rs posting in general chat about how much fun they were having killing people that came to the island. I bet all those naked crafters put up a hell of a fight.....rolleyes:

 

[Coragin]

Lets not forget, Felucca was here first. It is the way the game was originally meant to be played. Stop crying coz you got killed in fel, If you cant survive alone go down with a bunch of friends. If you still find you are unable to hold a champ spawn, do doom instead, sell the arties you get and buy the power scroll you need.

Felucca is the original game, Trammel is the watered down version of the game. The game was meant to be a challenge with risk vs reward. Trammel does not offer the risk vs the reward.

Funny thing is you don’t see the people who live and play in felucca cry that we don’t have doom arties in fel or we don’t have any new content/arties in fel for god knows how long (except being allowed in to the 2 new champ spawns from SA)

Join a Felucca guild learn to PvP. Then and only then can you make comments on how felucca should be run, other wise STFU and get on with your watered down game play and enjoy it!

lol lots of YOU's and YOUR's in there. Yet you claim to not be talkign to me? So who is the you that you are talkign to?

 

[Connor_Graham]

The biggest thing we need to remember is this:

Fel was first. UO has already taken alot from the players that made the game what it is today. Trammies have done nothing but whine about **** and incite other Trammies to leave.

Solution: Mythic needs to recognize this and remove tram from the equation. Fel only, insurance on what used to be Tram facets and no insurance on fel facets.

Now that is a great idea.

It's a great idea if your goal is to shut UO down in the quickest way possible. If not, then it just plain sucks.

 

[Coragin]

I'm not trying to attack you, it's just that I've had about enough of this whole "Poor me I'm a trammie" stuff from everyone. If you want powerscrolls you can buy them from the fel players that spend serious time in game learning how to keep their spawns and get them.

Power scrolls are for advanced players and there is no reason why a trammie running around in a samurai helmet, ember leggings, and a holy knight's breast plate - holding a soul seeker needs to be 120 anything.

The reason your character is getting owned is because you folks have no concept of how to play the game and put together a suit. This lack of knowledge is why you think everyone in fel cheats. If your suit sucks ass so do you. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with the skills after say.... GM and I can prove it.

Put anyone in the aforementioned stuff and I'll get on almost any template with GM only skills and kill them 20 times.

Didnt you say you were done?

 

[Winker]

Which failed miserably, so Tram had to be introduced in order to keep the game going, because it would have shut down if the mass exodus hadn't been stopped. Funny how you guys keep ignoring this little tidbit of information. rolleyes:

Regardless of how the game started, that is the past, and a far past at that. UO has been more about PvM than PvP for most of its life. That's what you need to be evaluating, not where it started from (and had to leave from soon after its inception). Only having 1 ruleset 13 years ago means nothing to what today's players are looking for.

No mate it did not fail miserably, you are wrong! What happened was the game attracted the wrong type of people and they found out that UO was not the game for them so they left.

Take a look over at Darkfall, it has a similar rule set to the old UO and its doing great, Japan, Korea and China all have games of this type that survive and thrive on the old UO rule set.

UO is a sand box type of game that was changed to suit the type of people who wanted a less harsh environment. You got it trammel. Now all I see here on the boards is crying about what we have in felucca and how tramies cant get the loot that’s in fel as the small population that’s left in fel keep spoiling their fun!!!!

 

[Connor_Graham]

The reason your character is getting owned is because you folks have no concept of how to play the game and put together a suit.

Of course the fact that most don't PvP on any kind of a regular basis if at all has nothing to do with it.....rolleyes:

 

[Connor_Graham]

No mate it did not fail miserably, you are wrong! What happened was the game attracted the wrong type of people and they found out that UO was not the game for them so they left.

Uh....wow.................that's the first time I've seen that BS used. 4 points for originality, even if it is nothing more than hot air and hopeful thinking.

Take a look over at Darkfall, it has a similar rule set to the old UO and its doing great, Japan, Korea and China all have games of this type that survive and thrive on the old UO rule set.

Great? That's not what I've heard. More like tanked coming right out of the gate........

UO is a sand box type of game that was changed to suit the type of people who wanted a less harsh environment. You got it trammel. Now all I see here on the boards is crying about what we have in felucca and how tramies cant get the loot that’s in fel as the small population that’s left in fel keep spoiling their fun!!!!

Yep, it is a sandbox. One in which 75% of the playerbase has no wish to participate in PvP or PvP situations. Imagine that.

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

I stay mostly in Tram and roleplay, and I think this is a bad idea. Leave PS's in Felucca. You want a powerscroll? Go to Fel.

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

Great? That's not what I've heard. More like tanked coming right out of the gate........

Darkfall tanked? Laughable. Darkfall had a rocky start but is doing really well right now. It attracted the sizeable playerbase it wanted. If that's what you mean by tanked, then uh, sure.

 

[Winker]

Uh....wow.................that's the first time I've seen that BS used. 4 points for originality, even if it is nothing more than hot air and hopeful thinking.





Great? That's not what I've heard. More like tanked coming right out of the gate........




Yep, it is a sandbox. One in which 75% of the playerbase has no wish to participate in PvP or PvP situations. Imagine that.

So then 75% of the population did not want to play a sandbox type of game, simple yeah. Coz if they did want to play a true sanbox type of game they would not have had to change UO.

UO was meant to be a place where anything can happen in one land/rule set. Players were meant to learn how to survive not run and hide on another facet.

Its was changed for commercialism/profit not for the good of the game!

 

[Coragin]

I stay mostly in Tram and roleplay, and I think this is a bad idea. Leave PS's in Felucca. You want a powerscroll? Go to Fel.

Wow a big post suggesting a ton of things, you see only power scrolls. Funny. Any thoughts on the rest or did you only read power scroll and rush to reply to say no?

 

[Coragin]

Its was changed for commercialism/profit not for the good of the game!

What this line should read...

Its was changed for commercialism/profit for the good of the game and majority of the population.

lol or this

Its was changed for commercialism/profit not for the good of the game I wanted!

 

[canary]

Uh....wow.................that's the first time I've seen that BS used. 4 points for originality, even if it is nothing more than hot air and hopeful thinking.


Great? That's not what I've heard. More like tanked coming right out of the gate........

TOTALLY OT here but I just want to point out that an ellipsis has only three periods in it. FYI.

 

[Coragin]

And I still dont see a problem with just adding in a pvp switch, then all content is available to all pvp and non pvp.

I think the main thing that most fel players fear with this is they fear there will nobody left to pvp. Isint true, but they fear this.

 

[Connor_Graham]

So then 75% of the population did not want to play a sandbox type of game, simple yeah. Coz if they did want to play a true sanbox type of game they would not have had to change UO.

They did want a sandbox, which is why they made the change, since the choice of NOT PvP'ing wasn't thought of at the outset and the "failed social experiment" had proven that their original vision had serious flaws.

UO was meant to be a place where anything can happen in one land/rule set. Players were meant to learn how to survive not run and hide on another facet.

What "UO was meant to be" initially turned out to be a failure in design due to human nature. It wasn't at all the ice cream and lollipops utopia you deem it to be.

Its was changed for commercialism/profit not for the good of the game!

It was changed because a change was necessary to stem the flood of players leaving for EQ which had a non-PvP alternative. If they hadn't changed UO wouldn't still be here today.

 

[Winker]

I'll skip the rest for obvious reasons, and move straight to you saying..

"..So it's not a big deal to add the Champs of Trammel to the list of drops, allow Faction PVP there, and also allow reds in Trammel."

The question remains, why do it when one can simply go to Felucca to achieve the same resulting experience? I'm saying it's not needed.
PVP in Trammel, Factions-only, would be fun potentially. This however will not be accepted by Trammel players who only joined Factions to wear the items safely in Trammel. Ironic. And then, really, WHY? Because people do not want to step into Felucca without reward? Aren't the scrolls enough?

But... You're talking rewards again. At this point with your insistence I must assume you propose what you do solely for the rewards. Fighting is its own reward, and has its own facet and its own incentive. You're only trying to shape it in a way you like it or bring it to your back-yard for no apparent reason, throwing in REWARDS for doing so. See what I'm saying now?

You have PVP toons? O'RLY...? Since when does that make you a PVPer at heart? You don't seem to be thinking like one, or stopped doing so the moment you brought up REWARDS again. Sure, you're trying to be open-minded and have a spherical point of view... By suggesting things that suit you most, as I see.. rolleyes: Maybe you do have a lot of PVP experience and fight daily but you seem to not like it if you want to change where and how and why it happens.

"I play UO for my own enjoyment, not so I can be someone else's."
Oh, you feel that coming to Felucca is not for your own enjoyment? Sorry, didn't care enough to notice, just don't come then? In the same line of thinking I stay out of Trammel as much as I can. I only trade there! My PVM experience is narrowed down to Fel Champ spawns protecting those who farm them. You don't get it do you? I don't WANT you to be my "enjoyment". By all means, stay in Trammel. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you what you COULD do to avoid feeling intentionally be-littled.

"Then you probably shouldn't be discussing this in the first place."
Seems like I probably should be, though.

"Don't presume to make judgements on players about whom you understand nothing. When one play-style is rewarded to the detriment of all of the others you have what is known as a "bad design decision"."
To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing and be nothing. Otherwise live with it.. rolleyes:
No-one's play-style was rewarded to the detriment of others'. Your precious Event had you coming to Fel IF YOU WANTED TO COME. That's all that happened. And you're making a fuss about it, suggesting UO revolves about YOU forced to come into Felucca getting killed.. Wow. Just.. Wow..

"What you don't have is a leg to stand on when trying to tell other players that their playstyle is un-important because a very small minority of players need to kill fish in a barrel in order to feel ful-filled. "
You don't get it.. No one needs to kill YOU to feel like an achiever, self-centered ego-maniac. Stay in Trammel, we won't miss you, sorry! Your play-style I have nothing against. But I refuse to sugar-coat it all, you're at fault whining about this Event and generalizing no end.

"This choice of the Devs was nothing more than them throwing PKs a bone, as having the book location on an island with no way off was nothing more than that, fish in a barrel. Reading the general chat in game that day was more like watching a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy than playing UO."
And your choice was to be a fish in a barrel. Bad choice! No, let me take that back- It was a BADLY EXECUTED choice. Reading your replies to mine is like watching a very hurt, very inflated Ego than being constructive too.

"What I find hilarious are all of the posts and threads created about ways to bring people to Fel, while the people that are already in Fel are doing everything they can to turn other players off from wanting to go there. Watching counter-productivity is always good for a laugh or 2. "
Have you ever considered most of those posts were made by people who thought they were PVPers at heart(much like Coragin) only to later find they were trying so much to turn Felucca into Trammel Jr. because they couldn't adapt to the style and that they ceased so to speak, heading back to the style that fits them most? And I'm not using this as a derrogatory or defamatory or diminishing re-mark at all. Most Feluccans don't really care, at any time there was always a core of 3-4 major guilds in Felucca competing against each other and we're fine by ourselves, if bringing more people in means implementing queer ideas that will twist OUR play-style. No thanks. Let alone ideas that will "force"(since you bring it up a lot) us to be in Trammel just so you can have your "PVP" rewards.

So Connor and Coragin, I think you are going crazy over nothing as I said, and I don't think I'll be replying at all. You don't really deserve more of my Net time wasted.

Spot on mate! Well thought out post and well executed

 

[Winker]

It was changed because a change was necessary to stem the flood of players leaving for EQ which had a non-PvP alternative. If they hadn't changed UO wouldn't still be here today.

Go take alook at darkfall it has a masive following, and its way harsher than UO ever was. So no the game would not have failed, but EA would not have made as much $$$ as they did by changing the rules.

But by changing the rules the game still lost millions of players why? coz they never REALY wanted to play a sandbox type of game in the first place!

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

Wow a big post suggesting a ton of things, you see only power scrolls. Funny. Any thoughts on the rest or did you only read power scroll and rush to reply to say no?

No to all of it. Better?

 

[HD2300]

Darkfall tanked? Laughable. Darkfall had a rocky start but is doing really well right now. It attracted the sizeable playerbase it wanted. If that's what you mean by tanked, then uh, sure.

Dude Darkfall has 4,000 subscribers on 2 servers. Four thousand. Which means they are losing money. Players are complaining about the lack of other PvPers. Sound familar? I dont know if they can last until the Darkfall 2010 expansion because of the problems Greece is having now.

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

Dude Darkfall has 4,000 subscribers on 2 servers. Four thousand. Which means they are losing money. Players are complaining about the lack of other PvPers. Sound familar? I dont know if they can last until the Darkfall 2010 expansion because of the problems Greece is having now.

Source?

 

[HD2300]

Source?

Go and check out the Darkfall forums.

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

Common Sense?

Uhhh, what? Try again. When someone asks for a source on something, citing "common sense" doesn't work. So unless everyone just miraculously knows that Darkfall is down to 4000 subscribers, it's not "common sense."

Either you misunderstood my post, or I'm putting far too much faith in people here.

 

[Coragin]

Uhhh, what? Try again. When someone asks for a source on something, citing "common sense" doesn't work. So unless everyone just miraculously knows that Darkfall is down to 4000 subscribers, it's not "common sense."

Either you misunderstood my post, or I'm putting far too much faith in people here.

Ahhh and "No" is a lot better of a well articulated reply to a post.

 

[Vaen Swiftar]

Ahhh and "No" is a lot better of a well articulated reply to a post.

To question that can be answered in yes or no, a no is highly appropriate.