What SHOULD have been done with the Abyss.

[Tina Small]

I look at what's happened to this game over the years. Now, it most certainly isn't Ultima Online.

I don't know if it helps or not to point this out, but not everyone who bothers to post in U.Hall has played UO since its beginnings. I've played continuously for only five and a half years. I picked up a Samurai Empire box at the store, thought it looked interesting, installed it, and started playing. No friends or family played with me...everyone I have ever encountered in UO has initially been a stranger to me. And, if you haven't already guessed it, I'm female. I also happen to be "old" (in my 50s and yes I have grandchildren).

Perhaps I just don't understand "stress", having never suffered from it. That's not to say that my life has been a perfect sphere of bliss, far from it. I just don't get stressed about things so much. I get annoyed, I get frustrated, yes, but I prefer to pick myself up and get on with things. I guess I'm thick skinned.

As for what happens in a game environment, really, I just don't take things so personally. Perhaps that's entirely the crux of the problem, not just with UO, but the internet in general. People seem to read too much into what someone behind a screen, on the other side of the world, who they will likely never meet or talk to in the flesh, far too personally.

Is that my fault? Is it their fault? Fault of the internet? Who knows...

Suffice it to say then, that there's a whole other psychological debate out there, when you raise the points you have.

My experiences playing UO have undoubtedly been very different from yours. And I will admit that many times, playing UO has been a way to retreat from and recharge my batteries after dealing with stressful family and work situations. Count yourself fortunate, Evlar, if you've never had to deal with something like seeing your seven-week old granchild lying in a hospital ICU bed, immobilized, his head swathed in bandages and hooked up to multiple monitors, because his father shook him and then hearing the doctors say he will probably never breathe on his own or be more than a vegetable. Then count yourself lucky to not have to deal with the situation of waiting for almost a year for the case to go to trial, wondering what the outcome would be. And then count yourself lucky to not have to continue to wonder how your family will cope when your grandchild's father eventually gets out of prison.

If you've never had a time in your life when you looked at your UO playing habits and admitted that playing UO is an escape from real life, I'm very happy for you. May it always be thus for you. Some of us, however, have checked out the grittier side of UO or read enough descriptions of it to know that participating in that side of UO probably won't provide the break from reality that we think we need at the time.

Please understand why I perhaps don't relish the thought of putting myself in situations where people lacking in maturity and/or tact think it is cool or makes them look brave or "leet" to run around throwing insults at other people, including calling them a "******" or worse. At my age, I know when I'm reaching the end of my tolerance for the day and am smart enough to know that I really don't want to hear that kind of language from a bunch of smart-alecks who casually let fly with such stuff because (1) they're safely hidden behind the anonymity of the Internet, and (2) they apparently don't care what effect their words have on anyone else. I'm sorry that you and others seem to have trouble grasping this concept: You're not like me and I'm not like you. We each react to things in our own way and just because I don't want the same things out of UO that you do doesn't make me a bad person, a wimpy person, a greedy person, or a coward. We're just different, that's all.

 

[Tek]

Interesting concept- perhaps instead the entire abyss should have been a fel rules only area, make things a little exciting add some more risk vs reward aspect.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Why do you even pay to play this game if you hate it so much? Just quit already and move on. I get the impression you know how to program, or at least you understand the basics, so make your own dream shard, with all your ridiculous rules, and the 15-20 of your fans can all play there and leave our game alone?

Translation:

"There should be ONE playstyle...MINE! If you don't like MY playstyle, then you should quit MY game. Even though you have played it since its inception, and pay the same amount, it is not about you, it is about ME! ME! ME!

Got it.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Interesting concept- perhaps instead the entire abyss should have been a fel rules only area, make things a little exciting add some more risk vs reward aspect.

Pretty much what I was saying, but I suggested something with a little more difficulty to it.

Oh well. It was only a suggestion. Moving on...

 

[Llewen]

I'm sorry that you and others seem to have trouble grasping this concept: You're not like me and I'm not like you. We each react to things in our own way and just because I don't want the same things out of UO that you do doesn't make me a bad person, a wimpy person, a greedy person, or a coward. We're just different, that's all.

*cheers*

Very well said!

 

[Stewpid]

Translation:

"There should be ONE playstyle...MINE! If you don't like MY playstyle, then you should quit MY game. Even though you have played it since its inception, and pay the same amount, it is not about you, it is about ME! ME! ME!

Got it.

I understand, this is what you've been saying ad nauseum for well over a month now. You want UO to cater to YOU and YOUR PLAYSTYLE, not the masses. I guess I don't understand still why you pay to play a game you hate so much. I've played since inception too, and pay the same if not more than you, who really cares? I, and most people, enjoy the game. You don't but you want them to cater to YOU and YOUR PLAYSTYLE. It's always about YOU! YOU! YOU! Please move on!

 

[Llewen]

Translation:

"There should be ONE playstyle...MINE! If you don't like MY playstyle, then you should quit MY game. Even though you have played it since its inception, and pay the same amount, it is not about you, it is about ME! ME! ME!

Got it.

There's more than a bit of irony in this tirade. What you are suggesting is imposing a playstyle that you particularly enjoy on a part of the game that everyone who plays the game will want to have access to. This already happens with the powerscrolls, but this would be a giant step further down that path.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I'm sorry that you and others seem to have trouble grasping this concept: You're not like me and I'm not like you. We each react to things in our own way and just because I don't want the same things out of UO that you do doesn't make me a bad person, a wimpy person, a greedy person, or a coward. We're just different, that's all.

Nicely put...

...but you understand that there are 2 sides to that coin, right?

Just because some of us don't want the same things as some of you doesn't make us bad people, bullies, griefers, or jerks.

The primary difference comes into play because those that want what you want already have everything.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

and pay the same if not more than you

They are charging you extra??

They must have saw you coming...

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

There's more than a bit of irony in this tirade. What you are suggesting is imposing a playstyle that you particularly enjoy on a part of the game that everyone who plays the game will want to have access to. This already happens with the powerscrolls, but this would be a giant step further down that path.

Let's review:

UO:R - Trammel ruleset
Third Dawn - Trammel ruleset
Lord Blackthorne's Revenge - Trammel ruleset
Age of Shadows - Trammel ruleset
Samurai Empire - Trammel ruleset
Mondain's Legacy - Trammel ruleset
Stygian Abyss - Trammel ruleset


Beyond PowerScroll Champ Spawns, what have Fel ruleset players gotten out of the devs since 2000? Nothing.

Don't give me this "Morgana is so selfish business"...I called shenanigans first

 

[Stewpid]

They are charging you extra??

They must have saw you coming...

They must have saw me coming? Nice retort! I pay for 10 accounts, because I enjoy the game that much. You may/may not pay for more, like I said, who cares? Point is, I pay for something I enjoy, you pay for something you don't. They must have saw YOU coming!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

They must have saw YOU coming!

They wish...


Anyway...thanks to everyone for the responses. I think I have enough feedback for now.

Thanks.

(I will not be posting in this thread any longer...but don't let me keep you from..."discussing" the topic)

 

[Jhym]

Without trying to insult anyone, and without anyone insulting me...just answer the following question as honestly as possible:

Do you feel that UO provides an adequate challenge vs. the rewards you get in the game?

Before you answer, consider the following:

- Since SA was released, how many times have you died in game?
- When you did die, what did you really lose?
- How much gold would you say you have in your banks on all of your characters?
- Would you say that your overall 'net-worth' in game has gone up, or down since SA launched?
- What exactly pushes you to want to PvM in the new areas? Is it the items you can collect? Exploration? Just something new?

By the by, I don't think most folks who talk with you are insulting you, however everyone on here has written something that "looks" insulting. I do, however, think it is insulting to have one's opinion belittled just because others don't agree and not because one doesn't have a point.

As for your questions, just for the hell of it:
Died about 8-10 times, depending on how you count it;
Lost several pieces to having no money for insurance, also lost a few bags of loot;
1.2 million or so;
About the same, I'm not really working that hard at anything at the moment;
Exploration, storyline (which there is little really), hope for something cool and new, and that thing called "fun".

As for the "adequate challenge": you and any one of us can argue that there is adequate or not adequate challenge for reward, since every single person in the game has their own ideas on what to consider challenging and rewarding.

As a consequence it is arbitrary and subjective and not a valid question.


Instead, I think we should be discussing:

What makes the game fun for each type of player;
How can those types of players be integrated in a way to reduce the friction between them;
If players don't wish to play certain parts of the game, why is it an issue?
If players want something that a seeming majority do not, which inherently requires the majority to involve themselves with, what do you do to make it fun for everyone involved?


In response to your original posting, I'd have to say it wouldn't have been fun for the majority of folks (including pvpers) and thus would never have been implemented.

As a counter, what if Felucca were completely cut off from the rest of the facets entirely? No resupply from blues, no arties other than Felucca areas that are already hooked up? Once you enter Fel, you are stuck there. How many would do THAT?

 

[Llewen]

There's more than a bit of irony in this tirade. What you are suggesting is imposing a playstyle that you particularly enjoy on a part of the game that everyone who plays the game will want to have access to. This already happens with the powerscrolls, but this would be a giant step further down that path.

Let's review:

UO:R - Trammel ruleset
Third Dawn - Trammel ruleset
Lord Blackthorne's Revenge - Trammel ruleset
Age of Shadows - Trammel ruleset
Samurai Empire - Trammel ruleset
Mondain's Legacy - Trammel ruleset
Stygian Abyss - Trammel ruleset


Beyond PowerScroll Champ Spawns, what have Fel ruleset players gotten out of the devs since 2000? Nothing.

Don't give me this "Morgana is so selfish business"...I called shenanigans first

I tried to be clear, but perhaps I wasn't being clear enough. You are calling for an important part of the game, The Abyss, the only place where you can get most of the high end imbuing ingredients, a place just about everyone who plays UO will either want to, or feel the need to, have access to at some point in the lifetime of their characters, to cater to the playstyle that you favour.

Do you not see that you are asking for the exact thing that you have accused many others of trying to do to you? Forcing people who don't enjoy the same things you do in game to engage in your playstyle. The only other option for those who need the high end imbuing ingredients will be to buy them at outrageous prices from pvp'rs, as is the current situation with powerscrolls.

And there is at least one factual error in your post. This is not true.

Stygian Abyss - Trammel ruleset

You seem to have conveniently forgotten the two rather fun and interesting spawns that were part of the Stygian Abyss expansion that fall under the Fel rules set.

 

[Evlar]

We each react to things in our own way and just because I don't want the same things out of UO that you do doesn't make me a bad person, a wimpy person, a greedy person, or a coward. We're just different, that's all.

I wouldn't and have not suggested you are any of those things. I also respect differences of opinion, circumstance and reasons people have for playing the game. We all have our share of real-life issues and circumstances to contend with. I try to keep the two things apart. We all have our own unique reasons for wanting "escapism". Perhaps in the context of my desire for more "challenge" in the game, what I said suggested otherwise.

I've enjoyed the diversity of UO for many years. Sadly, I believe the diversity has shrunk, rather than grown. By that, I refer to the diversity of playing styles, rather than game content. My opinion, that's all.

The game has had its fair share of problems over the years, that's a given. I would in no way condone players who's sole purpose, is to cause upset to other players, on a massive scale. I don't condone cheating. I certainly can't understand the point of the verbal insults that comes with certain participants in PvP and other interactions in-game. For the same token, I usually just ignore it when I see it, as reporting it has far less effect than it used to.

Although it didn't affect me personally, because I didn't permit it to, the rampant PK'ing that is widely broadcast of the era, my own views are likely blinkered. It affected some more than it did others. An objective way to look at it, is that there will always be conflicting and personal viewpoints on how things actually were.

Clearly something had to be done, given mounting pressure from rival games happy to exploit UO's failings, players complaining at their loss of enjoyment to abusive players, subscription numbers in rapid decline. I just think that the facet split drove a bigger wedge between diverse areas of the community, rather than attempt to constructively bring them together. A genuine attempt to find the right balance, rather than penalise those who "played the game", because of those who just wanted to spoil the fun.

It's well documented that the key developer responsible for many of those changes, who incidentally left to work on WoW just before their implementation, left behind a team who weren't all that enamoured with those changes. It was too late in the day, too much work in place, the commitment had been made. There were other solutions, which with the benefit of hindsight, may have been more appropriate. Sadly, we'll never know one way or the other.

You'll not see me call anyone a "Trammie" or "carebare", because in all honesty, those stereotypes would match the larger percentage of my own play-styles in UO. I have participated often enough in PvP and have never had a problem with it as a play-style, when people are simply "playing the game" that is. Unfortunately, within many game environment where any form of confrontation is involved, it always seems to be about the bragging rights and "for the win", entirely as if real-life depended on it.

Perhaps for those people, that's all they have. Some feeling of dominance and victory, that they're possibly unable to gain in their real lives. Alternatively, it could be just an emotionally detached pleasure, without any realisation of consequences of feelings the other person might have. Some of them might just be the nicest, friendliest people you could want to meet, in the "real" world. They just might be getting their fix of what they perceive to be inconsequential "badness". All we can base judgement on, is what we see in the game.

It's pretty much the same thing with the forums and comments people make. I'm often guilty of pointing the finger, in what I perceive to be a humorous way, towards other people. Some take it as intended, some don't. Different strokes for different folks.

Perhaps it's simply that I don't feel obliged to form emotional attachments towards people I speak to "virtually" on the internet, unless I already know them "in person" outside that sphere. People can say whatever they like about my online "persona". They don't know the "real" me, therefore it's like water off a duck's back to me.

I'll stop now, before I get drawn into what people perceive to be different levels of virtuality and reality.

 

[Evlar]

Anyhow, getting away from all the seriousness...

...here's me getting back to "normal"

(Image will probably be moderated, but it isn't all that bad)

 

[kelmo]

I might likely mod it when it shows...

 

[phantus]

They wish...


Anyway...thanks to everyone for the responses. I think I have enough feedback for now.

Thanks.

(I will not be posting in this thread any longer...but don't let me keep you from..."discussing" the topic)

*snap*

This will go nicely with the rest of my collection. I will shortly have my exhibit finished. I shall title it:

I'm done with this thread: The passion of a classic Lady

 

[Evlar]

I might likely mod it when it shows...

Consider it a humoured skit on the whole rampant PK debate

No real offence intended

 

[HD2300]

Or practise what you preach and play Siege.

When have ever preached playing Siege?

If I wanted to have 1 character slot, AoS and a light population, I could just delete most of my characters and stay on Atlantic.

By the way, did you learn the difference between C# scripts and C++ yet? I noticed you bailed on that particular subject. rolleyes:

Didn't bail re C# and C++. I made my point and I still stand by it and left it at that. Just like when the hardcore PvPers made the comment that if you really want risk vs reward you would be playing Siege and left it at that.

 

[Darknat]

Let's review:

UO:R - Trammel ruleset
Third Dawn - Trammel ruleset
Lord Blackthorne's Revenge - Trammel ruleset
Age of Shadows - Trammel ruleset
Samurai Empire - Trammel ruleset
Mondain's Legacy - Trammel ruleset
Stygian Abyss - Trammel ruleset


Beyond PowerScroll Champ Spawns, what have Fel ruleset players gotten out of the devs since 2000? Nothing.

Don't give me this "Morgana is so selfish business"...I called shenanigans first

That's not true. Both Mondain's Legacy and Stygian Abyss had felucca rules in some parts. Either mirror zones, or unique zones like the Abyss Champions.

Also LBR had the Solen hives which were mirrowed. And third Dawn introduced the Champion spawns that eventually made it to Felucca.

Also when the split was done, Felucca lost lands had the Khaldun Dungeon.


I see your point, but Felucca has had some additions over the years. Small additions compared to Trammel, but they are there.

 

[Kas Althume]

"This way, those that wanted to go and get their new uberness in the SA areas would have to suck it up and deal with a little risk.

What is the point of having the Abyss if it is just another goodie-two shoes area?"

An Abyss does exist like this.. Its called Siege Perilous, you know, the place that you dont play.

That was my first thought too ...

I still think it would have been cool. I fully understand that bulk of the playerbase and I disagree on a great many things, but the Abyss...as I have always understood it...was supposed to be a place of Chaos and such.

Oh well...typical responses for Uhall so far.

You shouldn't post on UOHall if you don't like UO-Hall-responses.

 

[Llewen]

I see your point, but Felucca has had some additions over the years. Small additions compared to Trammel, but they are there.

Given that the majority of the player base obviously prefers the Trammel rules set, it only makes sense that the majority of new content is created for that rules set.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I still think it would have been cool. I fully understand that bulk of the playerbase and I disagree on a great many things, but the Abyss...as I have always understood it...was supposed to be a place of Chaos and such.

You need to come down to the Caverns when my tamer has her fully trained pack of cows down there. 5 cows versus renowned ratmen....

It's chaos I tell you, udder chaos.....

 

[Llewen]

I still think it would have been cool. I fully understand that bulk of the playerbase and I disagree on a great many things, but the Abyss...as I have always understood it...was supposed to be a place of Chaos and such.

You need to come down to the Caverns when my tamer has her fully trained pack of cows down there. 5 cows versus renowned ratmen....

It's chaos I tell you, udder chaos.....

 

[Evlar]

Save me some milk!

 

[cdavbar]

Thus it isn't a hell in our fiction, but rather a corrupted place that was once a refuge of goodness. That is why one can still find pockets of goodness in there like the Silver Sapling and the pixies and fairy dragons.

DOWN WITH THE PIXIES (Im addicted to fairy dust!)

 

[cdavbar]

Don't give me this "Morgana is so selfish business"...I called shenanigans first

BATWING!!!