Classic shard.

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I have not visited stratics in probably 5 or 6 years, and reading this poll and interest gives me great hope that I can once again play UO to its fullest.

I support a classic shard, and have been waiting for one to be introduced for some time. Hope it comes through.

I was in the same boat. I hadn't posted here since AoS was released. I just came by out of the blue to see what was going on and saw the classic shard discussion. It got me excited. Unfortunately I couldn't remember my old account credentials and I know I don't have the same email I registered with so I had to make a new one.

I'm glad more people are coming back and expressing interest in this. And since I haven't came right out and said it, I'll say it now.

I will once again become a paying EA customer if they institute a classic shard. I will once again buy EA games and not feel bad about it. I know of at least 25 people in my company that would come to UO from other mmo's just because of the stories they've heard from me of UO's heyday. And they'd probably stay since they're tired of the item grind from other large mmo's that will remain nameless but start with War and end with Craft.

Yeah I know all that sounds pathetically gushy and fanboyish, but that's just how excited I am at the prospect of a classic UO shard, even if it is just a hope and dream.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Morgana... Did you send out that email? *winks*

No, but oddly enough...*I* didn't get one

 

[Evlar]

I can picture it now...

...Shard goes live

...Loads of (Young) players at the Sweet Dreams inn, Britain.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Kaivan, What we need in the light that you seem to be thinking is a better war system. Making war something that's wide open and unofficial is just another system to justify PKing, but doing it where it belongs is what we really need.

I've been rethinking an old idea of mine revolving around War Chests that have value and give capabilities to their guilds, and special Surcoats bought through these War Chests that allow for warfare between wearers, and can be captured and thus removing that player from the war, and can be later ransomed under certain circumstances. The War Chests maybe should also be capturable, but I haven't worked out all the details yet. War Chests also linked to resources and gathering.
I think something like this would give a better warfare feel, and what you are after?

Now I'm not sure of my memory on this aspect, but didn't they try something similar with factions? But you're right, that would be a great incentive for guild wars.

The only problem with all the different pvp systems is that they won't get utilized. How many big PK guild's were truly into the O/C wars? Factions? Very few. Yeah you might have a guild full of Reds (BC Comes to mind) who were in them, but they weren't really PK's they were PvPers. PvP systems will never keep PK's occupied because PK's don't want challenge. They want the loot and the knowledge that they wtfpwned somebody who probably couldn't resist them if they wanted to. I'm all for cool systems like the one you propose but we just need to keep in mind that PvP systems will rarely if ever be used by PK's, and thus we need to make being a PK a very rough experience. If we waffle on the punishment of PK's, then any server we may get will soon be killed again by the PK's like our original servers were.

 

[Apex Xion]

I can picture it now...

...Shard goes live

...Loads of (Young) players at the Sweet Dreams inn, Britain.

This gave me chills in a nerdy sort of way

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I can picture it now...

...Shard goes live

...Loads of (Young) players at the Sweet Dreams inn, Britain.

I would hope there would be no (young) tag on a classic shard....but loads of fresh players at sweet dreams inn....or if you weren't paying attention the inn in East Britain (I forget it's name). The training dummies in the Keep full up as people built skill before heading out to bash bunnies and headless. Wandering around picking up regs on the ground and running from skeletons and orcs as you try to build your magery up.

It'll be amazing.

Ohh yeah and I can't forget building blacksmithing and mining at the mines outside of Minoc. I loved the music for that town. The original midis that is.

 

[dinanm3atl]

I actually got the stratics email for the newsletter as well. I was excited. I see that the 'golden age' of UO is easily winning. My guess is 'old' players say this... see what is winning and voting to hopefully get our shard! This will be a long post and have typed it up many times. Maybe I should save the word file!

First off I 100% support the idea of a T2A October 98 Classic Shard. I see I am not the only one. Players coming out of the woodwork in support of this. I texted 5 people and 4 already replied that they were down if it comes back and keep them in the loop. We all eventually quit because of how bad the game got. So hopefully FINALLY people will read and realize that the 'Golden Age' Could make a comeback and they would get fresh revenue.

I will say that while compared to WoW or later MMORPGs UO did not have massive subscriptions but one has to consider that most households barely had a computer in the house. THe ones that did were more than likely on 28.8 and some had 56.6 connections. That eventually changed but there simply was not a large market for a game of that size and magnitude. People were still on consoles as PC Gamers just came out of the age of having to type their commands in the DOS console to access. A vast majority of MMORPG gamers came to believe that EQ/WoW/Carebear type games.

The PK Issue is a Non-Issue in my opinion. In my group of friends/players we rarely had a discussion about PKs. I knew if I wanted to venture out with my miner/smith I might get ganked. Oh well. What did I lose? Some ingots? In my opinion UO created the most closely 'realistic' MMORPG to date that I have played. It is supposed to be the middle ages... people would kill you and steal your stuff. Full loot is what would happen. Certainly eventually some might be tracked but in the grand scheme of things it was how things were. If you played a sailing game and you got attacked by 3 pirates would go cry to mommy? And anyone that played in the golden age knows the pulse quickens, you sweat, you get nervous. You JUST spent 2 hours killing Liche Lords and you said "Just one more" and a group of PKs roll in and everyone is trying to recall. Geting flame struck by a LL. Man those were the days! Get some friends and set a trap... it worked well in lvl 5 covetous on Atlantic as we killed many a red player that though it was 2 guys killing dragons... oops it was 6-8 hehe

The biggest problem with UO of today is the items... lawdy I tried to come back and within 2 hours someone had GIVEN me a full 100% reg reduction suit. That is so super lame it is not even funny. The whole fun was "Oh my god I need to heal and have no root!". Now you just get insurance and never lose it. The items are like WoW now. What happened to the VERY basic but usable '+1, +2 etc' magic items? Now you get these massive items that do all this crap. It becomes an item driven game instead of skill. Just like WoW. Doesn't matter what level you are... if you don't have the best or top tier items you suck. snooze.

I hope this discussion continues and people will keep coming out of the woodwark. 5 text netted myself and 4 other players. I am sure I could get more if it truly happens. We all got bored as the more changes happened. Places became empty that used to be full. Everyone enjoying the item driven carebear MMORPG...

Let's bring back some realism and actual sweat inducing, pulse rising MMORPG action!

*edit*

I also was Atlantic and my stomping grounds for killing mobs was just not overrun with PKs. I got killed sure. My friend got killed. We had to deal with them but it was never a problem. No more than I would expect. We moved around and killed LL, Ancients, Balrons, Drags and all kinds of other stuff. We would even stand around and clear LL room with silver weps. We saw the PKs but it wasn't something that I was angry over.

*edit edit*

I would do as I did back when the game released... I got it 2 weeks after release. I will start in Minoc and head to the mines! Blacksmith/Mining and just getting some monies and the groundwork laid for my mage/fighter

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Since we have a lot of new people joining the discussion, it might not be a bad idea to catch everyone up so to speak...

If you haven't seen the sticky, this list has been the basic consensus so far of what we would all like to see in a Classic Shard. There have been other ideas that have been suggested...but these are, for the most part, the "must haves":
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second Age era w/ necessary bug and glitch fixes
-Britannia and the Lost Lands
-Stat loss and long term murder counts for reds (stat loss on resurrection)
-T2A Item system (Vanq/Ruin magic weapons, Invul/hardening magic armor, magic wands staves, jewelery, boots, capes, etc.)
-T2A skill and stat caps (700.0 skill point pool, 225 stat point pool)
-T2A magic system
-Stat and skill controls (IE ability to set skills/stats to raise, lower and lock)
-Chaos and Order Guilds with proper fixes (lord/lady requisites removed)
-Guild Stones
-more Stackable items (IE Potions)
-**Crafting Upgrades (See below)
-T2A housing and rule sets
-Server Birth Rares

**Crafting upgrades are as follows:

-Tailors will be able to make bone armor as well as repair it along with leather armor

-Bow crafters will be able to repair bows

-Carpenters will be able to craft all staff weapons as well as clubs and repair them along with wooden shields

-potential addition of Ilshenar later on.


-No runic tools
-No BoDs
-No character transfers, to or from classic server(s)
-No ethereal mounts
-No power scrolls
-No AOS content, period
-No Trammel
-No Malas
-No Tokuno
-No Mondain's Legacy Content
-No Stygian Abyss Content
-No ELVES
-No Gargoyles
-No control slots for tamers or mages (still under discussion it will either be bonding with slots or unlimited slots)
-No repair contracts
-No bless deeds or blessed items
-No factions
-No custom housing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest debating points at the moment are:

- Custom housing (yes, no, yes with limited tile sets)
- Further penalties for PKs (stat loss on death, jail time, etc.)

I have seen some amazing ideas from some posters here. I have also seen several people that want to remain 100% true to the Classic era. All of these are good things, but in the end, it is best to consider what is best for the shard.

Hopefully this will help some of the newcomers to understand where this thread has been over the last almost 1600 posts. That's a lot of information to go through. Anyway, don't be shy...sometimes we get a little heated here, and things get a little raw...but in the end, we are starting to gel together as a 'Classic Shard Community'.

 

[Evlar]

Wandering around picking up regs on the ground...

Hahaha... I so remember doing that.

I also remember a red PK happened upon me whilst out collecting regs off the floor. He asked my why I was doing it when I could buy bulk from NPC's or other players.

"You've got to have gold to do that" I replied.

The PK left me to it

(Must've thought any loot I had wasn't worth the effort )

 

[Llewen]

Hopefully this will help some of the newcomers to understand where this thread has been over the last almost 1600 posts. That's a lot of information to go through. Anyway, don't be shy...sometimes we get a little heated here, and things get a little raw...but in the end, we are starting to gel together as a 'Classic Shard Community'.

Which raises another interesting point. When this topic first roared back to life after Cal dropped the classic shard musings bomb on all of us, I didn't think there was any chance that the magic of those days would be recreated. But given how passionate many are about this topic, a classic shard might become something very special indeed. It will never be exactly the same as those days, but it just might be as special in it's own way.

I'll say it. I really hope this happens now. I've already said I think it is going to happen, but I can honestly say I'll be there with bells on, and I am looking forward to it. I still doubt it would become my home shard. But who knows?

So chock one up for passion, perseverance, and classic shard drip torture...

 

[Tay M'real]

Since we have a lot of new people joining the discussion, it might not be a bad idea to catch everyone up so to speak...

If you haven't seen the sticky, this list has been the basic consensus so far of what we would all like to see in a Classic Shard. There have been other ideas that have been suggested...but these are, for the most part, the "must haves":
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second Age era w/ necessary bug and glitch fixes
-Britannia and the Lost Lands
-Stat loss and long term murder counts for reds (stat loss on resurrection)
-T2A Item system (Vanq/Ruin magic weapons, Invul/hardening magic armor, magic wands staves, jewelery, boots, capes, etc.)
-T2A skill and stat caps (700.0 skill point pool, 225 stat point pool)
-T2A magic system
-Stat and skill controls (IE ability to set skills/stats to raise, lower and lock)
-Chaos and Order Guilds with proper fixes (lord/lady requisites removed)
-Guild Stones
-more Stackable items (IE Potions)
-**Crafting Upgrades (See below)
-T2A housing and rule sets
-Server Birth Rares

**Crafting upgrades are as follows:

-Tailors will be able to make bone armor as well as repair it along with leather armor

-Bow crafters will be able to repair bows

-Carpenters will be able to craft all staff weapons as well as clubs and repair them along with wooden shields

-potential addition of Ilshenar later on.


-No runic tools
-No BoDs
-No character transfers, to or from classic server(s)
-No ethereal mounts
-No power scrolls
-No AOS content, period
-No Trammel
-No Malas
-No Tokuno
-No Mondain's Legacy Content
-No Stygian Abyss Content
-No ELVES
-No Gargoyles
-No control slots for tamers or mages (still under discussion it will either be bonding with slots or unlimited slots)
-No repair contracts
-No bless deeds or blessed items
-No factions
-No custom housing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest debating points at the moment are:

- Custom housing (yes, no, yes with limited tile sets)
- Further penalties for PKs (stat loss on death, jail time, etc.)

I have seen some amazing ideas from some posters here. I have also seen several people that want to remain 100% true to the Classic era. All of these are good things, but in the end, it is best to consider what is best for the shard.

Hopefully this will help some of the newcomers to understand where this thread has been over the last almost 1600 posts. That's a lot of information to go through. Anyway, don't be shy...sometimes we get a little heated here, and things get a little raw...but in the end, we are starting to gel together as a 'Classic Shard Community'.

Thanks for the summary Morgan.

I do have a comment on your statement about "what's best for the shard". I think that mindset is part of what led us to the current state of UO as it is today...trying to please the whole. I think you have a mix of people that want both (like you said) but we're not really talking about a classic shard anymore - we would then be talking about a mixed shard - basically adding/removing patches and elements of releases.

That's where it gets a little troublesome and worrisome to me as a players as I am sure that's how the developers feel as well. I work in IT as part of a functional IT group and I work with business and developers designing system enhancements on the Oracle platform and with that we have releases and drivers that are kind of like patches. To revert that information requires additional drivers and code so that you don't incidently break something else.

I imagine it would be very very tedious to piece elements of all these versions of UO and ensure a stable server. I have to lean towards a shard that is true to the ERA...if we say T2A - it has to be T2A...there can't be a comprimise of custom housing (AoS) or new housing types (Ren)..it must remain true so that we remain true to the idea of the shard...

I just see that mixing of versions - basically as a potpurri of UO's various routines...we aren't talking 'classic shard' anymore...we're talking 'custom content' shard...

Now, I 100% agree with bug fixes...those are incidental issues that created an issue in true functionality and intent...but elements have to be consistent to the era chosen...that I would support 100%

T2A...in ALL it's glory!

 

[Apex Xion]

My all-time favorite T2A memory was mining in the mountains north of brit. I was probably in my 50's for skill points, so I was still very young. All of a sudden I see "AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!" and a invis'd mage comes off the north wall and BOOM! I'm dead. He literally almost scared the moose nuggets out of me!! I hadn't ever seen a PK and for him to be invis'd and to come out screaming and casting... man, what a sight!

Ahh, I still giggle about how I was so startled...

Them's the good ole days!

 

[LordDrago]

Somewhere on these boards, I have a post outlining my case for being against a classic shard.

However, I am changing my opinion. I think a classic shard might be a good idea (actually, at least 2 as pointed out by someone, somehwere in here due to lag issues).

My main reason for changing my mind has been reading a lot of Morgan LeFays posts. I think if the classic shard were created along the lines that Morgan is working along, it could work. I do not think I would be playing it, but you never know.

Morgan, keep up the good work. Your passion for a classic shard is evident and admirable.
Whomever is keeping a tally, please move my vote from teh HELL NO to the YES column.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

classic shard drip torture...

Now I have to clean coffee off of my monitor! Thanks!!

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Which raises another interesting point. When this topic first roared back to life after Cal dropped the classic shard musings bomb on all of us, I didn't think there was any chance that the magic of those days would be recreated. But given how passionate many are about this topic, a classic shard might become something very special indeed. It will never be exactly the same as those days, but it just might be as special in it's own way.

I'll say it. I really hope this happens now. I've already said I think it is going to happen, but I can honestly say I'll be there with bells on, and I am looking forward to it. I still doubt it would become my home shard. But who knows?

So chock one up for passion, perseverance, and classic shard drip torture...

I'm glad we've won you over.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

My all-time favorite T2A memory was mining in the mountains north of brit. I was probably in my 50's for skill points, so I was still very young. All of a sudden I see "AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!" and a invis'd mage comes off the north wall and BOOM! I'm dead. He literally almost scared the moose nuggets out of me!! I hadn't ever seen a PK and for him to be invis'd and to come out screaming and casting... man, what a sight!

Ahh, I still giggle about how I was so startled...

Them's the good ole days!

Lol. I remember my first run in with a blade spirit at the brit crossroads. I was new, maybe in my 50's as well. I bumped into one and got poisoned. I ran a little further north into the crossroads itself and started mixing a cure pot. Next thing I know is I see a guy pop up next to me screaming REGS! and casting E-bolt. Thankfully he fizzled and I managed to run with him pursuing me screaming "I just want your regs! Give them to me"! etc... All the while trying to cast different spells and fizzling. I don't know if he was RPing a crazy mage, was just crazy IRL, or was just messing with me, but once I made to the the guard zone at the Britain pass I just sat there and laughed in real life for about 5 minutes. I mean literally laughed so hard I cried.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

That is why many, myself included said that if they make a classic shard then a trammel version would be needed for those like you that enjoy sitting at the same spawn killing brainless animations. Although most here would play the t2a version.

What the heck are you on about rofl...

Did you actually even read any of the thread ? Do you know what irony means ?

 

[Cetric]

I don't think any shard can work out very well with even less population.

The population of the game is spread so thin... we don't need another shard right now. If they just say, you know what, the hell with it, announce they are closing XX shards, give all accounts that play those shards as a "home shard" or the accounts who own a house on the shard at the time of the announcement, free transfer tokens, some sort of appreciation gift, etc, Give them some fancy dancy thing that says the were a member of that shard. and start merging shards...


People will come to the gates with torches and pitchforks, but going into the future, uo will be better for it, the game will be alot more fun with more interaction, and then feel free to open a new shard--classic shard.

 

[dinanm3atl]

I am in a close to 100% agreement with above. Kill off this stupid item driven game that UO is now. The blessed/insurance needs to go. Full loot. If you wanna carry your silver vanq katana to kill LL you risk losing it. If you want to just show it off then walk around brit bank with it equipped...

The custom housing I never really cared for so if it wasn't there I don't really care. Definitely don't want any of that elf/japan/whateverdumbcraptheyadded.

I have been excited to hear 'news' or discussion of this... hopefully something comes of it! I don't know what I would do with myself!

 

[Vernalex]

I've read some of the past posts and I'd like to weigh in about pking. I definitely think there should be a penalty for pking. In a simple form I think the bounty system is fine, but it shouldn't be money for money since there's too many ways to cheat that. Perhaps something more like the victim pays X gold and that's traded for a penalty. It could be something like the murderer has to pay the bounty himself, and if he can't afford it then he has to work it off somehow. Or the penalty could be something like X amount of gold gets you Y hours of red-time that can be worked off off-line or on-line until you can rez. And if you rez during that time then you would receive a penalty on stats, but I think a fixed loss on str, dex or int would be less ridiculous.

Really, I'd like a working notoriety system like what was tried early on. It'd be great if the higher the notoriety the more lenience you receive in pking a player with lower notoriety. That way the theoretical honorable people can self-police the players that feed off decent people. And if your notoriety is too poor then you are banned from the towns.

I personally liked playing in a world in which you never felt safe. The danger made the game exciting.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I don't think any shard can work out very well with even less population.

The population of the game is spread so thin... we don't need another shard right now. If they just say, you know what, the hell with it, announce they are closing XX shards, give all accounts that play those shards as a "home shard" or the accounts who own a house on the shard at the time of the announcement, free transfer tokens, some sort of appreciation gift, etc, Give them some fancy dancy thing that says the were a member of that shard. and start merging shards...


People will come to the gates with torches and pitchforks, but going into the future, uo will be better for it, the game will be alot more fun with more interaction, and then feel free to open a new shard--classic shard.

I have to disagree.

I think the worst thing that the devs could do would be to use a Classic Shard to justify contracture. Everyone will blame the Classic Shard, and it will cause people to just quit.

I agree with you that shards need to be merged...but not like that. The best thing to do would be to link specific shards via the public moongates for a specific period of time, say 90 days. Announce that one or two of the linked shards are closing, and then allow everyone on those shards to relocate during that time period.

Some people will quit, but I think that a gradual approach will lessen that.


But the Classic Shard should not be any part of that. These two issues are separate matters, and should remain that way.

 

[Evlar]

Which raises another interesting point. When this topic first roared back to life after Cal dropped the classic shard musings bomb on all of us, I didn't think there was any chance that the magic of those days would be recreated. But given how passionate many are about this topic, a classic shard might become something very special indeed. It will never be exactly the same as those days, but it just might be as special in it's own way.

I'll say it. I really hope this happens now. I've already said I think it is going to happen, but I can honestly say I'll be there with bells on, and I am looking forward to it. I still doubt it would become my home shard. But who knows?

So chock one up for passion, perseverance, and classic shard drip torture...

Will be glad to have you there with us

 

[Cetric]

I have to disagree.

I think the worst thing that the devs could do would be to use a Classic Shard to justify contracture. Everyone will blame the Classic Shard, and it will cause people to just quit.

I agree with you that shards need to be merged...but not like that. The best thing to do would be to link specific shards via the public moongates for a specific period of time, say 90 days. Announce that one or two of the linked shards are closing, and then allow everyone on those shards to relocate during that time period.

Some people will quit, but I think that a gradual approach will lessen that.


But the Classic Shard should not be any part of that. These two issues are separate matters, and should remain that way.

I agree that they are seperate issues, but i also believe that a server merge of some sort should take place before any real thought is put into a classic shard. I think the 90 day moongate deal is great, allow people to relocate, sure no problem. People from those closing shards could go wherever they want. I also believe they should be given something recognizing the fact that they were from that shard as well.

After some population is condensed, then a classic shard could be moved on. I just do NOT want to see the population of any prodo shard thin out anymore than it already has, ESPECIALLY in fel.

 

[dinanm3atl]

I agree that this should be a totally seperate entity. It would seem the time invested to just launch it and see what it does would be quite good. There are 200-300 on 20 or so player run shards. There are some with 1000 members. It seems that I found T2A players on WoW. Warhammer. And elsewhere. I personally feel that people would come out of the woodwork.

I have talked about UO with so many friends that would be willing to run the trial and test it out... and I bet many would be hooked.

I will say that for whatever reason myself and my gaming friends(locally, nationally and internationally) never really discussed or had a huge deal with PKs. It happened. Oh well. That is part of the game. This was on the Atlanta server.

 

[Bc-]

I still say that stat loss on death is the way to go for Pk's.

No matter what penalty they put in, I will still PK, but I agree there needs to be increased harsher penalties to negate the need for a safe zone. 50% stat loss, on death, double the time of red counts. Reds can't recall.

That will weed out the posers from the real PK's pretty quick.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Since we have a lot of new people joining the discussion, it might not be a bad idea to catch everyone up so to speak...

If you haven't seen the sticky, this list has been the basic consensus so far of what we would all like to see in a Classic Shard. There have been other ideas that have been suggested...but these are, for the most part, the "must haves":
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second Age era w/ necessary bug and glitch fixes
-Britannia and the Lost Lands
-Stat loss and long term murder counts for reds (stat loss on resurrection)
-T2A Item system (Vanq/Ruin magic weapons, Invul/hardening magic armor, magic wands staves, jewelery, boots, capes, etc.)
-T2A skill and stat caps (700.0 skill point pool, 225 stat point pool)
-T2A magic system
-Stat and skill controls (IE ability to set skills/stats to raise, lower and lock)
-Chaos and Order Guilds with proper fixes (lord/lady requisites removed)
-Guild Stones
-more Stackable items (IE Potions)
-**Crafting Upgrades (See below)
-T2A housing and rule sets
-Server Birth Rares

**Crafting upgrades are as follows:

-Tailors will be able to make bone armor as well as repair it along with leather armor

-Bow crafters will be able to repair bows

-Carpenters will be able to craft all staff weapons as well as clubs and repair them along with wooden shields

-potential addition of Ilshenar later on.


-No runic tools
-No BoDs
-No character transfers, to or from classic server(s)
-No ethereal mounts
-No power scrolls
-No AOS content, period
-No Trammel
-No Malas
-No Tokuno
-No Mondain's Legacy Content
-No Stygian Abyss Content
-No ELVES
-No Gargoyles
-No control slots for tamers or mages (still under discussion it will either be bonding with slots or unlimited slots)
-No repair contracts
-No bless deeds or blessed items
-No factions
-No custom housing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest debating points at the moment are:

- Custom housing (yes, no, yes with limited tile sets)
- Further penalties for PKs (stat loss on death, jail time, etc.)

I have seen some amazing ideas from some posters here. I have also seen several people that want to remain 100% true to the Classic era. All of these are good things, but in the end, it is best to consider what is best for the shard.

Hopefully this will help some of the newcomers to understand where this thread has been over the last almost 1600 posts. That's a lot of information to go through. Anyway, don't be shy...sometimes we get a little heated here, and things get a little raw...but in the end, we are starting to gel together as a 'Classic Shard Community'.

Thanks for the summary Morgan.

I do have a comment on your statement about "what's best for the shard". I think that mindset is part of what led us to the current state of UO as it is today...trying to please the whole. I think you have a mix of people that want both (like you said) but we're not really talking about a classic shard anymore - we would then be talking about a mixed shard - basically adding/removing patches and elements of releases.

That's where it gets a little troublesome and worrisome to me as a players as I am sure that's how the developers feel as well. I work in IT as part of a functional IT group and I work with business and developers designing system enhancements on the Oracle platform and with that we have releases and drivers that are kind of like patches. To revert that information requires additional drivers and code so that you don't incidently break something else.

I imagine it would be very very tedious to piece elements of all these versions of UO and ensure a stable server. I have to lean towards a shard that is true to the ERA...if we say T2A - it has to be T2A...there can't be a comprimise of custom housing (AoS) or new housing types (Ren)..it must remain true so that we remain true to the idea of the shard...

I just see that mixing of versions - basically as a potpurri of UO's various routines...we aren't talking 'classic shard' anymore...we're talking 'custom content' shard...

Now, I 100% agree with bug fixes...those are incidental issues that created an issue in true functionality and intent...but elements have to be consistent to the era chosen...that I would support 100%

T2A...in ALL it's glory!

I'd personally like to see some checks put in place to keep PKs from just overrunning the shard...but I think it would be better to start off only with things that were in the game at one point or another...then see where it went. If it looked like it was going to be problematic, then add more penalties.

So in the beginning...just use the Classic anti-PK mechanisms:

- Long and short term murder counts
- Reds can't use towns besides Buc's Den
- Reds are guard-whacked on sight
- Stat loss on rez
- NPCs won't deal with reds
- Reds can only rez at the Chaos shrine or by players
- Bounty system (fixed to prevent exploits)

If that wasn't enough, then tweak it to those, plus:

- Perma red for over a certain number of murders
- Stat loss on death

If that still wasn't enough:

- Add roving bands of tough casting NPCs that attack reds on sight.
- Jail time

I can't imagine it would need to go any further than that. Most players that wanted to PK others would be a lot more careful about who they killed as oppossed to killing every blue player they came across.

I commented on this, but no one replied to it. I'll give this one more shot.

If this "classic shard" starts out without stat loss on death, then it's the same system that failed before.

This will get only one shot.

Players everywhere know about PKing. Many won't go for this in the first place without a logical system to slow PKing way down. Many more will try it, find out that all the stories are true, and quickly leave.

One chance. That's all it gets. That beginning. It has to work, or open PvP will once again be looked at as it always has been since UO's early days.
One chance.
Fail that one chance, and the whole thing gets buried under the old stigma that it can never work. Gamers will close their eyes to it and not look back.

I keep seeing this version quoted, with stat loss on res. I see it's that way in the stickied post at the top of the forum too.

As I said, it would be a huge mistake. The shard will very quickly die for all those who are not for open PvP and looting. From there you get the rep going, "just more of the same failed thing", and that will be it. From there, it becomes a PvP only ganking shard. The Devs will not be able to react quickly enough.

As I said, you get one chance at this, and it will be a very quick one.

This really needs to get fixed, advertised as stat loss at death, and have it that way from the beginning.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I just do NOT want to see the population of any prodo shard thin out anymore than it already has, ESPECIALLY in fel.

Well...I can't agree. If it is the will of the players...the paying customers to move to a Classic Shard and abandon their current shards, who are you...or anyone else...to stand in their way? It runs counter to every successful business model in a free market society. In this particular case, it sounds like you are not very interested in moving to a Classic Shard yourself, so you seek to make sure that no one else can either. Think about what you are saying there for just a second.

If the bulk of players in Fel on the existing shards were to abandon those shards (and I am not saying they will...I am just going off of your post) for a Classic Shard...and you enjoy playing in Fel...wouldn't it make more sense for you to move where they go, rather than see them all stuck on a shard they don't want to be on?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I keep seeing this version quoted, with stat loss on res. I see it's that way in the stickied post at the top of the forum too.

As I said, it would be a huge mistake. The shard will very quickly die for all those who are not for open PvP and looting. From there you get the rep going, "just more of the same failed thing", and that will be it. From there, it becomes a PvP only ganking shard. The Devs will not be able to react quickly enough.

As I said, you get one chance at this, and it will be a very quick one.

This really needs to get fixed, advertised as stat loss at death, and have it that way from the beginning.

I put a portion on the bottom of the post I made. I haven't seen any real consensus on this matter though. *I* personally agree with you, and so do others...but I have seen just as many posts against it as I have for it.

Now, understand, I have no control over that sticky thread. I cannot edit it. But I do think that it is fair that a consensus is reached before that thread is altered. So some extra discussion is needed IMO. I have already seen 1 or 2 people change their opinions on this. Remember, when this thread first started, there were a few people saying that they wanted Trammel. Most of those people, after seeing the debates and seeing that some of us don't just want a wide-open no consequence shard, have changed their minds on that. Others have changed their opinions on whether or not a Classic Shard should even exist at all.

I think that discussion, as long as we can remain civil, is the key to figuring out what would work best...so let's not give up on anything yet.

With that said, since we can't rely on polls, everyone just post a simple Yes or No to the following questions:

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

No need for long commentaries or arguments. Speak with your votes.

My answers:

1 - No
2 - Yes
3 - Yes

 

[Bc-]

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes

Additional question: Do you think that only allowing reds to Gate and not Recall would help cut down on Pks and also offer advanced warning for players to flee?

 

[popeto]

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

1 - No - add in no recall, no beneficial actions to reds, statloss upon death.
2 - Yes -
3 - No, we are all grown ups I hope


For all these people boo-hooing about PK's, being PK'd is not really a big issue anymore... im on a free shard and ive never been pked, even when there have been 6-8 reds chasing me or appearing out of nowhere.

with everyone on cable, dsl, horses, and trapped pouches, there is no way you should be getting pked unless by a group of ten who managed to get the jump on you.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

1 - No - add in no recall, no beneficial actions to reds, statloss upon death.
2 - Yes -
3 - No, we are all grown ups I hope

Wait, you said that no...the original penalties were not enough. Then you said that stat loss on death...yes. Then you said no to extra penalties...but you listed extra penalties under #1???

And then you said this...

For all these people boo-hooing about PK's

I don't understand your stance here. I am not saying I disagree with what you are saying, just that you are conveying two different messages.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I put a portion on the bottom of the post I made. I haven't seen any real consensus on this matter though. *I* personally agree with you, and so do others...but I have seen just as many posts against it as I have for it.

Now, understand, I have no control over that sticky thread. I cannot edit it. But I do think that it is fair that a consensus is reached before that thread is altered. So some extra discussion is needed IMO. I have already seen 1 or 2 people change their opinions on this. Remember, when this thread first started, there were a few people saying that they wanted Trammel. Most of those people, after seeing the debates and seeing that some of us don't just want a wide-open no consequence shard, have changed their minds on that. Others have changed their opinions on whether or not a Classic Shard should even exist at all.

I think that discussion, as long as we can remain civil, is the key to figuring out what would work best...so let's not give up on anything yet.

With that said, since we can't rely on polls, everyone just post a simple Yes or No to the following questions:

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

No need for long commentaries or arguments. Speak with your votes.

My answers:

1 - No
2 - Yes
3 - Yes

1 - No
2 - Yes
3 - Yes

Will add, if this is installed this way, then you can start adding things to make Reds into "evil", game lore and game play wise, by adding some more elements. Wide range of things can be done here.

 

[Evlar]

With that said, since we can't rely on polls, everyone just post a simple Yes or No to the following questions:

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

I only really ever played a role-play red PK. I also never remember suffering greatly to PK's on the shards I played, whilst out mining or simply exploring.

Understanding a little of the dynamics and issues that others have sincerely raised though, from all angles, I would go with the following.

1· No

2· Yes

3· Yes*

*To agree with popeto's comments - add in no recall, no beneficial actions to reds, statloss upon death. I think that's as "harsh" as it needs to be.

Considering what's been discussed, potentially imposing harsher punishment on red PK's, I would actually consider it a good challenge to play as such a "character". Of course, I wouldn't be going out to cause grief, but it would make for some good role-play, where I would be encouraging others to hunt me down. Would be quite fun being chased around, even being "brought to justice". I don't take something like this personally though. Hell, I'd probably carry gold or loot around with me as the "reward" to those that caught me!

 

[Longest Journey]

With that said, since we can't rely on polls, everyone just post a simple Yes or No to the following questions:

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

To a point, yes.

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

Hmm....well, if it occured on death, then its unavoidable. A red cant wait around as a ghost and burn off the red count then rez blue and dodge it. However, while they are stuck waiting as a red as a ghost, they are not out killing people and have to wait to be able to use their character again.

But, if they die, get the stat loss, then they are pretty much going to have to wait around as a ghost so they can rez blue and re work the character back up.

My answer......yes, it would have an impact because it would knock Reds out of the PvP game for a longer period of time.

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

Depends on what you mean by something harsher.

things like perma death are out of the question. Not even those idiots who made Darkfail would touch that one with a 20 foot poll and for good reason.

Now, if by harsher you mean penalties that prevent resurrection for X amount of time based on # of kill counts or monetary fines based on # of counts, those would be acceptable.

However, choice 3 is completely contingent on whether or not the old methods fail, which if properly augmented and fixed, will not. There is no way to tell right now if anything harsher NEEDS to be put in because there is nothing to put them into.

 

[Cetric]

Well...I can't agree. If it is the will of the players...the paying customers to move to a Classic Shard and abandon their current shards, who are you...or anyone else...to stand in their way? It runs counter to every successful business model in a free market society. In this particular case, it sounds like you are not very interested in moving to a Classic Shard yourself, so you seek to make sure that no one else can either. Think about what you are saying there for just a second.

If the bulk of players in Fel on the existing shards were to abandon those shards (and I am not saying they will...I am just going off of your post) for a Classic Shard...and you enjoy playing in Fel...wouldn't it make more sense for you to move where they go, rather than see them all stuck on a shard they don't want to be on?

If all shards had a high population, i would play a classic shard as well. I loved the classic game play.

That being said, i don't think it is fair to the players that do not like classic, or werent around for it, to ruin their game play by putting in something that would hurt it.

I'm looking at it from this perspective, and you are viewing it form the other. It is sort of a statement in this respect. That is why i keep saying, merge some servers, create more population so as to not hurt the players that will be staying on current shards if/when a classic shard is implemented.

 

[starshooter10]

Re: Classic shard: Narrowing the gaps

T2A fior sure...

add in the stat/skill locks and control slots no tram only 2 lands... brit and t2a

but PLEASE make sure there are a few servers (US WEST US EAST euro and asia)

I would hate to see them make a great server then be super slow to it....

 

[Longest Journey]

I only really ever played a role-play red PK. I also never remember suffering greatly to PK's on the shards I played, whilst out mining or simply exploring.

Understanding a little of the dynamics and issues that others have sincerely raised though, from all angles, I would go with the following.

1· No

2· Yes

3· Yes*

*To agree with popeto's comments - add in no recall, no beneficial actions to reds, statloss upon death. I think that's as "harsh" as it needs to be.

That depends on no recalling for who? No recalling for reds.... expect a sea of complains from the red community.

No beneficial actions.... well if Im in a guild and my red guildmate is under attack, I would want to be able to help him. Or, it would make it so two reds couldnt heal eachother, thus gimping group tactics for them. And, again.... there'd be a sea of complaints.....something we need to avoid. If you want to curb people healing reds, make it so if the red kills the person they are attacking, the person healing the red takes a full murder count as an accessory to the crime.

Stat loss on death......sure, thats a good one. Its tough, but not so much to the point people would complain about it.

Considering what's been discussed, potentially imposing harsher punishment on red PK's, I would actually consider it a good challenge to play as such a "character". Of course, I wouldn't be going out to cause grief, but it would make for some good role-play, where I would be encouraging others to hunt me down. Would be quite fun being chased around, even being "brought to justice". I don't take something like this personally though. Hell, I'd probably carry gold or loot around with me as the "reward" to those that caught me!

Thats a good attitude.

 

[Cetric]

With that said, since we can't rely on polls, everyone just post a simple Yes or No to the following questions:

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

No need for long commentaries or arguments. Speak with your votes.

My answers:

1 - No
2 - No
3 - Yes

1. Yes
2. No
3. No


Alot of people aren't just out there to ruin the crafters life, kill the guy taming a dragon, etc etc.

Alot of us just want pvp, and penalties as they were was pretty rough as it was. Let alone make it worse..

 

[Longest Journey]

If all shards had a high population, i would play a classic shard as well. I loved the classic game play.

That being said, i don't think it is fair to the players that do not like classic, or werent around for it, to ruin their game play by putting in something that would hurt it.

Classic servers wouldnt hurt anything. If there is going to be an effect, its going to be positive for UO. For starters, it will show EA this game isnt done yet and still has profitable potential. Then, once money starts flowing in again and the game actually starts seeing a surplus in profits instead of deficites, perhaps Mythic will be able to hire programers to fix the outrageous number of bugs on the AOS servers.

I'm looking at it from this perspective, and you are viewing it form the other. It is sort of a statement in this respect. That is why i keep saying, merge some servers, create more population so as to not hurt the players that will be staying on current shards if/when a classic shard is implemented.

Merging the servers doesnt create more population. Just because you cram a bunch of people into a smaller space doesnt mean there are more people added to the whole. All that will happen is A.) server merges will cause people to lose their houses and b.) It will make the population LOOK bigger, but they will still be pitiful compared to sub numbers from years ago.

The only positive I could see from server merges, it would free up more server space for classic servers.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

1. No - Plus I feel the system is too easily exploitable. We are very advanced compared to 1998/1999. Especially those who have been playing freeshards for the last 6 years.

2. Yes - It might prevent some from pking.

3. Yes- Depending on how extreme we are talking. I mean, I don't think they should be able to use any town personally. Even if they could hang out in Bucs, I don't think they should be able to access a bank or anything like that. Maybe skill gain should be made slower too, by like 10-20 percent.

I'm with ya Cetric, I just want to PvP. I think the PvPers can do it in Order/Chaos and Guildwars though allowing the PvMers and Crafters to do their thing keeping the shard populated as a whole. I mean, really, PK vs anti stuff hasn't existed in the game since 1998 pre Rep patch when Dreads vs antis was the only form of PvP. Well, there were a few Great Lords with Chaos/Order shields but they dont really count. ;p

The only time you really really had groups of Antis hunting PKS was Pre Rep patch. Yes a few times here and there you would go hunt reds post rep but with the whole stat-loss thing people just wern't as risky as they were post beta.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Just as a quick note, even I cannot edit the sticky as it currently stands because the thread is locked. I'm sure if there are any changes that need to be made we can make a request but I just wanted to let everyone know.

Oh and my votes on your three questions.

1) No
2) Yes
3) No

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

That being said, i don't think it is fair to the players that do not like classic, or werent around for it, to ruin their game play by putting in something that would hurt it.

Well, fair is a very subjective term in this case...because I would argue that many things (Trammel, AoS, Samurai Empire, Mondain's Legacy, SA, etc.) were things that were all put in to "ruin" the game play of those of us that never wanted any of that stuff...and thus far, we have gotten NOTHING we did want. Meanwhile, players that enjoy that sort of thing have gotten 3 clients, numerous expansions, more shards...the list goes on and on.

So if we are going to discuss "fair", I think EA could open a dozen classic shards with half a dozen different rulesets, and the scales would STILL not balance.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

3· Yes*

*To agree with popeto's comments - add in no recall, no beneficial actions to reds, statloss upon death. I think that's as "harsh" as it needs to be.

I've been one of the strongest proponents of reasonable risk vs reward balance on both sides of the aisle but I will say the above is going way to far for my personal taste.

At least when you start talking about no recall, that's just silly, especially if they already aren't allowed in towns or near guard zones as it is. The idea is to make it risky not so daunting that nobody desires to try their hand at it.

That being said, i don't think it is fair to the players that do not like classic, or werent around for it, to ruin their game play by putting in something that would hurt it.

I don't really care much about players that don't like classic, and I suspect they don't much care about me. This is still to my ears a complete non argument, people can choose what they want, if that leaves your shard in the dust (which I very seriously doubt it will) then that is the will of those who chose to make such a decision.

But again I cannot see a classic shard making production shards into ghost towns anymore than most of them already are.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

But again I cannot see a classic shard making production shards into ghost towns anymore than most of them already are.

If a Classic Shard is created, and it becomes popular, I can see this argument being used as an excuse by AoS/Tram fans. As their shards die, mostly because people have done all they can do on a "theme park" shard...they will cite the creation of a Classic Shard (a sandbox) as the reason. The truth is, if people are given a choice then the populace decides. If the devs don't create a Classic Shard...we will never know.

I don't think anyone that is being truly honest with themselves can say that the game is on the rise at the moment. I know a lot of people like to pretend it is not in decline...but it is. And no, it hasn't always been. But for the record, I do not believe that a Classic Shard will breathe new life into this aged game. It will just give those of us that want it a nicer place to spend the twilight years of the game.

 

[Kaivan]

How's this work when you consider someone with a couple of extra magic swords they got from hunting MOBs for hours, and can only use one of them in defense?

Internally to the game, all items had a default known value. Any swords obtained by farming would be included in this sort of calculation, along with any potions, reagents, gems, etc. As for using the swords that were picked up, I'm assuming that a person who has been "hunting MOBs for hours" would have had the capability to fight and kill the creatures they were fighting. That fact shows that they have some sort of combat ability, and the fact that they died with a magic weapon that they can't use is irrelevant.

How's it work in the case of ganking?

Each PK will suffer temporary stat-loss based on the comparison of their bag's value to that of the victim (remember each instance of stat-loss is due to receiving a murder count).

Beyond that, no system will effectively deal with ganking in the first place, short of a system that permanently punishes a PK while still alive. Any such permanent punishment system is beyond heavy-handed and is essentially asking that the game mechanics take care of player justice, even at the most basic levels (there should be some work done by the players to deal with PKs).

How's it work in the case of killing miners and their packies for their ore?

Any player using a pack animal takes an extra risk that any player can kill their pack animal and only be held accountable for a criminal action. The reward for that risk is the fact that the miner can carry more ore. As for the miner him/herself, the same comparison of item value will be made when the miner dies to a PK, just as would be made in any other case.

How's this work when someone of "value" is PKed after being beaten down by a MOB?

Again, if a player can give another player a murder count, this system make the value comparison. It doesn't matter if the PK did 100% of the damage or 1% of the damage. As long as a count was received for it, they will be held accountable under this system.

Kaivan, What we need in the light that you seem to be thinking is a better war system. Making war something that's wide open and unofficial is just another system to justify PKing, but doing it where it belongs is what we really need.

I've been rethinking an old idea of mine revolving around War Chests that have value and give capabilities to their guilds, and special Surcoats bought through these War Chests that allow for warfare between wearers, and can be captured and thus removing that player from the war, and can be later ransomed under certain circumstances. The War Chests maybe should also be capturable, but I haven't worked out all the details yet. War Chests also linked to resources and gathering.
I think something like this would give a better warfare feel, and what you are after?

No, this is not intended as a system to deal with warring parties. This is a system designed to curb PKing in the areas that PKing is done with out of game intentions in mind (griefing). Any war system would have no effect on this sort of problem at all.

As I said...easy. It was far easier back then gank 1 or 2 blue players than it was to spend hours fighting NPC monsters. The players would have much better loot than an monsters carried. Believe me, I know. I was an anti-PK, and while your average PK traveled lighter than a blue, they still had some nice loot on them compared to say, a dozen liches. We never kept anything we took off of PKs. We gave it all away to newbies and people we rez'ed after they were PKed.

That's not entirely true. A PK took a great amount of risk killing another player, even if that player was a high value kill. The fact that reds hedged against that particular risk by working together was simply a result of well designed game play on their part.

When a PK killed a lumberjack for example, it was not for profit. It was usually very easy...as I stated above...but it was not for loot. Most resources gatherers did so near their homes or near town. They generally only carried tools. Most wore no armor, had no regs, and as you said...nothing of any real value on them.

What purpose was there in killing a player like that beyond causing that person an inconvenience?

And I have to ask, why is it ok to PK someone just because they have value?

I've quoted these two pieces together because they are asking two different halves of the same question: Why do people PK at all? The reality is that there is some legitimate reason for PKing, and that reason is for in-game profit. If your goal is expressly to cause another player grief, which has nothing to do with in-game motives, then some system should exist to punish that kind of behavior more severely, but only that kind of behavior.

Also, if we go with the supposition that killing a person because they are of high value is not a good reason for PKing, and that PKing for griefing purposes is also not a good reason, we must ask ourselves What other reason is there to PK? Since the answer is a resounding none, if the goal is to stop PKing of all types, then you might as well go with Trammel, because holding that point of view can only result in something such as Trammel in the first place.

The problem is, to address the two issues you have listed, which I contend are the same issues I listed, just worded in a less anti-pk sort of way...you would have to remove player looting, and you would have to change human nature.

Again, this is a narrow-minded and heavy-handed approach. This is also a supposition that there is no defensible reason for PKing at all, when PKing for profit is the only legitimate reason for PKing. Grief PKing should be dealt with accordingly, and in a different manner than profit PKing.

I put a portion on the bottom of the post I made. I haven't seen any real consensus on this matter though. *I* personally agree with you, and so do others...but I have seen just as many posts against it as I have for it.

Now, understand, I have no control over that sticky thread. I cannot edit it. But I do think that it is fair that a consensus is reached before that thread is altered. So some extra discussion is needed IMO. I have already seen 1 or 2 people change their opinions on this. Remember, when this thread first started, there were a few people saying that they wanted Trammel. Most of those people, after seeing the debates and seeing that some of us don't just want a wide-open no consequence shard, have changed their minds on that. Others have changed their opinions on whether or not a Classic Shard should even exist at all.

I think that discussion, as long as we can remain civil, is the key to figuring out what would work best...so let's not give up on anything yet.

With that said, since we can't rely on polls, everyone just post a simple Yes or No to the following questions:

1 - Do you think that the original penalties for red were harsh enough?

2 - Do you think that it would have any meaningful impact on curbing PKing if stat loss occurred on death rather than resurrection?

3 - Do you think that something harsher than stat loss on death needs to be implemented into a Classic Shard?

No need for long commentaries or arguments. Speak with your votes.

1. Define original. In the original system (9/17/97) PKs had no penalties at all.

2. Yes, in exactly the same way that Trammel did. Its a heavy handed approach that deals with the problem, but has other significant side effects that aren't being considered as well.

3. No, and I don't think that harsher penalties are required because I think that stat loss on death is too harsh for legitimate PKs (again, heavy-handed way of dealing with a specific issue). Beyond that, Longest Journey pretty much pointed out that the only real effect this would have on PKs is keeping them out of the game for a longer period of time (waiting out a potential second stat loss and rebuilding skills as opposed to waiting out stat loss) and wouldn't really have that much of an effect on net PKing.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

To be clear I don't believe it will breathe new life into the game either, but it may very well keep the game afloat for a few more years, if anything the franchise itself needs new life, that means a sequel to UO.

I don't want to start a debate about everything that a sequel entails but this game was bled near dry along time ago.

 

[Longest Journey]

Heh, heres one for you folks:

Control slots and pet bonding: yes or no

I vote No.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Longest Journey pretty much pointed out that the only real effect this would have on PKs is keeping them out of the game for a longer period of time (waiting out a potential second stat loss and rebuilding skills as opposed to waiting out stat loss) and wouldn't really have that much of an effect on net PKing.

Since we don't yet know what skill gain looks like, it's a bit early to make such a claim. If skill gain is slower as it was in the old days especially as you got closer to gm, then yes it will very much have an effect on net pking, because you will have to factor in the cost of rebuilding those skills as well not just the time, some pks have more wealth than others.

Macroing off a ghost doesn't usually keep people from pking either for the record, since most of us have more than one combat effective character, it is much easier to switch to an alt for pking and then macro off the red ghost during the sleep/work/etc cycle of real life.

That's what I did in any event during stat loss, I can't imagine I was anywhere close to being the only one to use such a tactic.

 

[Longest Journey]

Since we don't yet know what skill gain looks like, it's a bit early to make such a claim. If skill gain is slower as it was in the old days especially as you got closer to gm, then yes it will very much have an effect on net pking, because you will have to factor in the cost of rebuilding those skills as well not just the time, some pks have more wealth than others.

All the more reason why stat loss on death works. It carries with it a substantial penalty. It WILL make players thing twice about whether or not its worth becoming public enemy #1.

Macroing off a ghost doesn't usually keep people from pking either for the record, since most of us have more than one combat effective character, it is much easier to switch to an alt for pking and then macro off the red ghost during the sleep/work/etc cycle of real life.

That's what I did in any event during stat loss, I can't imagine I was anywhere close to being the only one to use such a tactic.

And what happens when that Alt red dies too? then what? Youre stuck with two dead reds who have stat loss. Are you going to throw a third character onto the fire? Or are you going to go back and wait off your murder counts and rework those two characters back up?

I mean, your alt wasnt invincible, it had to have been killed sometime or another. Even if you could leave the old red character to rot, your alt wont make it forever. Eventually, they're gonna die.

Sure, switching to an alt buys you some time, but eventually, the stat loss is going to catch up with you.

 

[Longest Journey]

If a Classic Shard is created, and it becomes popular, I can see this argument being used as an excuse by AoS/Tram fans. As their shards die, mostly because people have done all they can do on a "theme park" shard...they will cite the creation of a Classic Shard (a sandbox) as the reason. The truth is, if people are given a choice then the populace decides. If the devs don't create a Classic Shard...we will never know.

I don't think anyone that is being truly honest with themselves can say that the game is on the rise at the moment. I know a lot of people like to pretend it is not in decline...but it is. And no, it hasn't always been. But for the record, I do not believe that a Classic Shard will breathe new life into this aged game. It will just give those of us that want it a nicer place to spend the twilight years of the game.

Who said it would be the twilight years of the game? If classic servers are made, and they work, and they start generating decent sub fees, then EA will not shut down UO. Remember, its one of the greediest companies in the world......second only to that jerk Donald Trump and his soulless empire.

If the Classic Servers breath new life into UO, then you can expect a 15th or even 20th anniversary for this game.