Factions Statloss

[Locryn Finck]

SO: In summary You are saying you have to have faction artifacts to compete

Please point to where I said that. I can see discussing this further with you is pointless if you won't even go off reality. Very little of what you have written is lucid or accurately critical. You seem personally offended at the idea of making an alternation to a system which incentives players to join a pvp system which reduces pvp. Again, not science here sir. Basic cause and effect and observation. I am not sure what you are arguing so passionately about.

Heres a better summary: The creator of this thread seems to agree with me.

 

[Lord Strahd]

This is more of a debate thread than an actual pole thread, and even if it was a pole thread. This is an extreamly small part of the factions represented on these forums. Lots of people dont even come here and read or write anything.

So I brought all these statements about you saying your a majority over minority and presented them to a whole team of cheerleaders and they concluded that they wouldnt tell anyone if I would just let them go.

 

[Tina Small]

I think you're mistaking my point, I'm not saying its dishonourable to Dismount, I'm saying its dishonourable to use a consumable over skill.

I'm assuming you would make exceptions for things like alchemists using pots, or ninjas using darts or stars, right?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

In many situations bolas bypass an intended handicap for the thrower. Take someone with a pet (cu/dread/gd), ordinarily to use the pet they would need to be on foot as a balance for having double the potential firepower, the victim when mounted can still fight, they're fighting against the odds already but they have the fact they're mounted on their side. If you take that away it isn't balanced anymore. The victim is forced on to the defensive, if they carry on attacking the player the pet kills them, if they attack the pet the player kills them. If the tamer used a weapon to Dismount instead of the bola there would at least be the balance that they had used some of their template for it and probably lost out in another area.

I think you're mistaking my point, I'm not saying its dishonourable to Dismount, I'm saying its dishonourable to use a consumable over skill.

Well the argument was about bolas, I do not think many "tamers" use bolas these days, most just go for the archer/tamer hybrid for the easier damage/dismount. Bolas are avoidable, but most people are not going to stay and fight an archer/tamer for the same reasons you just posted. I am not sure if I agree with you about using consumables or not....I tend to lean to not using them (I hardly do, often times wishing I would have due to death that could have been avoided) but again, I can not say it is dishonorable, res killing (I think you posted this originally) is Dishonorable. I think they should tie the effectiveness of Consumables more so to Skills, such as pots to alchemy, make EP nearly useless if you don't have ALchemy, or Bola's could be less effective, maybe make the chance to dismount from 100 to maybe 70 and then if you have throwing you can gain the 100 chance. But again, none of that is dishonorable, of course that is just my opinion and I do not wish for you to stray from yours.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I'm assuming you would make exceptions for things like alchemists using pots, or ninjas using darts or stars, right?

Ninjitsu consumables; darts, stars, smoke bombs, require skill to use, potions don't. But aside from that it would be down to what they can code.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Please point to where I said that. I can see discussing this further with you is pointless if you won't even go off reality. Very little of what you have written is lucid or accurately critical. You seem personally offended at the idea of making an alternation to a system which incentives players to join a pvp system which reduces pvp. Again, not science here sir. Basic cause and effect and observation. I am not sure what you are arguing so passionately about.

Heres a better summary: The creator of this thread seems to agree with me.

Everything I said was lucid, I did not "quote" you saying anything, I pointed out what you were saying, YOU SAID you are only going to stay in factions if the artifacts continue to stay how they are, you would leave if they change them to be duplicates, this indicates you are saying people can not compete with out them.

I am not against change to the system, Go check the other thread where people are continually bashing the new system I am there against them, in what seems to be the minority. I am arguing that Faction is not "pvp" as it stands, it is more like war, you remove stat loss and you have a constant state of defending for 10 hours I might remind you. If the incentives to Actually participate in Factions was there, then this issue would be larger than it already is. Secondly if you look at my actual responses to "changes to the system" You will see I am all for it being only around the Sigils, or bases, or towns, or anything that is Faction Related. I have no issue with you running around doing your non faction stuff and not being put into stat. My issue is the complete removal of it, this is where the majority of posts are in fact in favor of leaving stat in the system in some way.

I am all for changes, Changes are not "removals" Changes incorporate the entirety of the community, and the game play. Stat loss only when in the vicinity of Faction related activities, perfect Idea (assuming they add more than just controlling the towns, other wise anytime there is a Sigil around would be the basic function of stat loss). Stat loss that is something other than removal skill? Could work, lets test it out see how it works in a real situation. Other proposals? Bring em on, lets test some ideas, discuss them, figure out how they are strong how they are weak and make it work. Removal? Mind as well get rid of Factions.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I'm assuming you would make exceptions for things like alchemists using pots, or ninjas using darts or stars, right?

Ninjitsu consumables; darts, stars, smoke bombs, require skill to use, potions don't. But aside from that it would be down to what they can code.

Well, Explosion pots are most effective if you have Alchemy, and of course Alchemy enhances all potions in a decent way (not enough compared to a single item that could do it). See post above for more ideas on this.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

See original Post.

After arguing for a bit with people, and then rereading your post, I have this question to ask you:

Do you think the elimination (or change) of stat loss is going to get the people who do not pvp to pvp? The more trammel inclined players have already spoken up against this idea, as it makes it harder for them to keep the enemy at bay, which (as others want to keep adding) Reduces pvp as a whole, because they will then just leave and never bother to try and get others out there in fel.

I know we need Ideas and ways to get people to participate, but we need something to get them to participate before we try to think of ways to "keep them" If they are not already here and doing it, no one is leaving. Stat loss is only an issue if you believe the people not pvping are doing as such because they do not wish to be in stat.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Well the argument was about bolas, I do not think many "tamers" use bolas these days, most just go for the archer/tamer hybrid for the easier damage/dismount.

There are more Archers now than there were but thats a whole other balance issue. Its interesting you say an Archer has an easier dismount when if both are in range an Archer can still miss and a bola can't. Archers may have taken over due to their other merits but Dread Warhorse Mages (& other bola Mage/Tamers) were still prominent.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

There are more Archers now than there were but thats a whole other balance issue. Its interesting you say an Archer has an easier dismount when if both are in range an Archer can still miss and a bola can't. Archers may have taken over due to their other merits but Dread Warhorse Mages (& other bola Mage/Tamers) were still prominent.

Well I meant, an archer can chase down and dismount through ninja or just mount/dismount. A person using a bola has a similar advantage, but soon as they start to swing the bola everyone can see it, thus they can either a: jump off their mount to avoid it. or b: run away till later. Also Bola people have to dismount use bola, wait, target, wait. Archers just have to "hit dismount button, hit attack. Miss? ok "mount up, chase for a minute hit dismount special and dismountself macro and see if it hits that time".

I do use bola's and an archer, this is why I say the archer is easier to get the dismount than the person using a Bola. I even admit I use bola's as a mage, but not because I "have" to but rather because it is annoying to spend the better part of 30 minutes simply playing "wait till he comes back beat him down so he runs away again and wait till he comes back" rinse and repeat. actually, I guess that is a lie...I do not really bola people in small combat on my tamer only in larger battles, but I consider that to be tactical more than anything. But again, I have offered possible effective ways to improve item use to be more in line with skill use.

 

[Tina Small]

After arguing for a bit with people, and then rereading your post, I have this question to ask you:

Do you think the elimination (or change) of stat loss is going to get the people who do not pvp to pvp? The more trammel inclined players have already spoken up against this idea, as it makes it harder for them to keep the enemy at bay, which (as others want to keep adding) Reduces pvp as a whole, because they will then just leave and never bother to try and get others out there in fel.

I know we need Ideas and ways to get people to participate, but we need something to get them to participate before we try to think of ways to "keep them" If they are not already here and doing it, no one is leaving. Stat loss is only an issue if you believe the people not pvping are doing as such because they do not wish to be in stat.

A couple of things that I think hold back some people from getting involved in PvP are:

(1) Fear of losing their gear to an exploit or a bug and being unsure of what gear they need. I understand faction artifacts can be easy to obtain, but I'm pretty sure they don't cover every slot, you need silver and rank to get them, and some people may be averse to such things as putting characters from another account in an opposing faction to kill them for points/silver. Also, not everyone has an artificer or even knows what they should have an artificer make to fill in the blanks on a PvP suit.

(2) A lot of uncertainty about PvP techniques, flagging on other players, murder counts, faction rules, and a host of other Fel-related issues. Also, for some players, there could concern over what the ultimate cost will be to try to adapt as EA tweaks things or adds new stuff. How often will they need to change skills, invest in a soulstone collection, etc.?

(3) A feeling that the cheating and ganking are so prevalent that there's really no point in even trying to get started with learning to PvP.

(4) Distaste for the chat system. I think listening to PvPers go on and on about their prowess and trying to "verbally" cut down their opponents has probably pushed a number of people away from even wanting to engage in PvP on their shard. On some shards the general chat has devolved into nothing more than an R-rated chat room and I think the barrage of filth, drivel, and general immaturity is hurting things more than it is helping them. It's one thing to listen to someone being an ass while you're on the field with them but something else entirely to have to listen to them spew their garbage to the whole shard and possibly talk poorly about you and your mates in front of the whole shard while you aren't around or while you have them on ignore. Yes, I realize you can't control what people say, but I question the value of making it so easy for people to monopolize the "air waves" of a shard without any apparent repercussions.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

i really hope they make a focus group outta this...

 

[Locryn Finck]

Some good points there. I think the fear of item loss and confusion of how to imbue are not really paramount. Most of the time when somebody drops something it just isn't insured. Things randomly happen, but I've never seen it first hand. But nowadays there isn't a single item you could lose that would devastate you. Imbuing is pretty easy to get a handle on, and there are plenty of crafters who understand it. Just ask around.

As far as the cheating and ganking - yep. Cheating is really prevalent now and it sucks. Ganking will always be there - it has gotten exacerbated by the higher enrollment in factions. As the faction system has gradually become the norm of general pvp, ganking seems to have gotten worse. Smaller guilds who would ordinarily fight against other smaller guilds are now united under the overall banner of a faction. The concentration of people in factions leads to less variety in groups out fighting, and thus: more ganking.

The chat system and communication in pvp in general is hilariously bad. There is no pleasing some people. If you fight them 1v1, you are trash. If you get ganked by them, your trash. If you gank them, your trash. If you dismount them, reveal them, use pets, pixies or bolas, your trash. If you kill somebody, your bad. If they kill you, your bad. Virtually anything anybody does to any other player in the game besides using an explosion/flamestrike combo makes them trash. It HAS gotten worse - but it could be due to a more concentrated and small pvp community.

I am constantly irritated at how every single little event in felucca has to precipitate an explosion of smack. Nobody seems capable of just putting a lid on it, win or lose.

But, none of these are things that can be readily addressed by some kind of easy to code change by the developer(s). We need to be thinking in terms of incentives - what kind of change in what area of the game could give incentives to reduce the issues above.

Faction artifacts were not a bad idea at the start - you can see the logic: Lets get more people to come to fel by offering some reasonably easy to obtain gear that makes it simple and fast for people to craft a great pvp suit. Surely, this will lead to more people out in fel pvping, and the factions will create broader and all inclusive communities for new players to meet allies and train.

But unfortunately the reality is at odds with that otherwise reasonable vision: Increased faction enrollment coupled with statloss has created all manner of issues I have detailed in other posts.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

A couple of things that I think hold back some people from getting involved in PvP are:

(1) Fear of losing their gear to an exploit or a bug and being unsure of what gear they need. I understand faction artifacts can be easy to obtain, but I'm pretty sure they don't cover every slot, you need silver and rank to get them, and some people may be averse to such things as putting characters from another account in an opposing faction to kill them for points/silver. Also, not everyone has an artificer or even knows what they should have an artificer make to fill in the blanks on a PvP suit.

(2) A lot of uncertainty about PvP techniques, flagging on other players, murder counts, faction rules, and a host of other Fel-related issues. Also, for some players, there could concern over what the ultimate cost will be to try to adapt as EA tweaks things or adds new stuff. How often will they need to change skills, invest in a soulstone collection, etc.?

(3) A feeling that the cheating and ganking are so prevalent that there's really no point in even trying to get started with learning to PvP.

(4) Distaste for the chat system. I think listening to PvPers go on and on about their prowess and trying to "verbally" cut down their opponents has probably pushed a number of people away from even wanting to engage in PvP on their shard. On some shards the general chat has devolved into nothing more than an R-rated chat room and I think the barrage of filth, drivel, and general immaturity is hurting things more than it is helping them. It's one thing to listen to someone being an ass while you're on the field with them but something else entirely to have to listen to them spew their garbage to the whole shard and possibly talk poorly about you and your mates in front of the whole shard while you aren't around or while you have them on ignore. Yes, I realize you can't control what people say, but I question the value of making it so easy for people to monopolize the "air waves" of a shard without any apparent repercussions.

A lot of this is a good start. I am not to keen on the first one though. For one the loss of items really should not be as big of a deal as it is (i know I know step into the present we are not in 1997 anymore, but still). Also most of those issues do not even exist currently.

2) This one....Is self inflicted, to learn you need to try. Or find someone willing to help, I know number 4 sort of makes this hard but reality is if you are unwilling to fight through the "hard" parts, then nothing can be done.

3) ganking would be less prevalent if more people would playing, does not really remove the threat, but still every "one" person counts to improving this. I have no answer to cheating.

4) this is the big ticket, to me anyway, the players attitudes, more so the change in the attitudes over the years, from being honorable pkers to being griefing pkers. The "child" like behavior that many exhibit. This one also, No real fix for but again....More "good" players would level the fields, and eventually either the child like behavior would disappear or at least tone down as the children would be losing a lot more.

Just my Opinions on it, But I do feel you got it more or less right as to why people are not so inclined to pvp.

 

[Paps]

they were put ingame to be used.
and guess what,,,not for pvm.
i get so tired of hearing people whine about
"hey!!!! you shouldn't disarm one of us 3 people trying to gank you!"
or
"OMG!!how dare you bola me" [when they run 3x faster than anyone else ingame]
or
"HEY!!! no drinking potions"
really now,,these things are ingame to be used
either as items or as part of peoples templates
if we listened to all the whiners whom dont want people to
actually play their templates,,,or use their items
UO would have nothing but pure mages in it.

 

[tink'r_toiz]

i really hope they make a focus group outta this...

SECOND! And Cear, there is nothing preventing UOStratics from forming a focus group to improve overall understanding of Fel, PVP and factions. There has been discussion of improved Fel reporting, here is a big opportunity to get into the "head" of the Fel dwellers, get some seriously good reporting/information for UOS and help EA (hopefully they listen).

 

[tink'r_toiz]

(4) Distaste for the chat system. I think listening to PvPers go on and on about their prowess and trying to "verbally" cut down their opponents has probably pushed a number of people away from even wanting to engage in PvP on their shard. On some shards the general chat has devolved into nothing more than an R-rated chat room and I think the barrage of filth, drivel, and general immaturity is hurting things more than it is helping them. It's one thing to listen to someone being an ass while you're on the field with them but something else entirely to have to listen to them spew their garbage to the whole shard and possibly talk poorly about you and your mates in front of the whole shard while you aren't around or while you have them on ignore. Yes, I realize you can't control what people say, but I question the value of making it so easy for people to monopolize the "air waves" of a shard without any apparent repercussions.

The ingame chat was a nice thought .......not well thought through but I think it was meant well. That said, I monitor general chat but often can't read it because all I see is special characters. Sometimes it is interesting to let my mind invent what I think they said ... what can I say, I am easily amused by my obscenity filter.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

SECOND! And Cear, there is nothing preventing UOStratics from forming a focus group to improve overall understanding of Fel, PVP and factions. There has been discussion of improved Fel reporting, here is a big opportunity to get into the "head" of the Fel dwellers, get some seriously good reporting/information for UOS and help EA (hopefully they listen).

Most of the "fel dwellers" are very uncooperative, of course not many of the ones here though. It is a good idea to try, and also no harm could truly come from this, at worst you would end up where we are now.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

The ingame chat was a nice thought .......not well thought through but I think it was meant well. That said, I monitor general chat but often can't read it because all I see is special characters. Sometimes it is interesting to let my mind invent what I think they said ... what can I say, I am easily amused by my obscenity filter.

The chat was always there. Are you saying them forcing people to join it was a nice idea? Despite the fact most just turned it off as soon as they learned how *sighs*

 

[tink'r_toiz]

they were put ingame to be used.
and guess what,,,not for pvm.
i get so tired of hearing people whine about
"hey!!!! you shouldn't disarm one of us 3 people trying to gank you!"
or
"OMG!!how dare you bola me" [when they run 3x faster than anyone else ingame]
or
"HEY!!! no drinking potions"
really now,,these things are ingame to be used
either as items or as part of peoples templates
if we listened to all the whiners whom dont want people to
actually play their templates,,,or use their items
UO would have nothing but pure mages in it.

Agreed and pleads that we get back on the subject of statloss before one of the Mods has to smack us all with a big stick.....

So I want an informal poll for my own analysis:

Stat Loss -

• 
  Keep some form? Yes or No

• Reduced Time? Yes or No

• If yes to above, suggested time? 5 min 10 min 15 min

• Allow some ingame means to reduce? Yes or No

• If yes, suggestions? A lot of good suggestions earlier in the thread. I am looking for a consensus of which one would be the favored.

• Other inspired ideas ____________________________________

 

[tink'r_toiz]

The chat was always there. Are you saying them forcing people to join it was a nice idea? Despite the fact most just turned it off as soon as they learned how *sighs*

At the risk of derailing the thread again... I don't remember general chat working until a couple months ago.... but I was probably just wonderfully oblivious.....and no, forcing anyone to be in chat is a bad idea. I believe they thought it would be a good mechanic to allow the community to globally talk ... again, they forgot or didn't fully understand the modern fel inhabitants. (imo)

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

they were put ingame to be used.

Potions have been in UO from the start, they've been heavily relied upon from sometime between the wod archers and wand abuse eras, to kid yourself that 'they were put in to be used' in that way is astoundingly naive.

and guess what,,,not for pvm.

Guess what else, no one other than you mentioned PvM.

i get so tired of hearing people whine

My post was an idea, your post is a whine about my post.

as part of peoples templates

There is no skill required to use pots, bolas, apples, petals or trap boxes.

if we listened to all the whiners whom dont want people to actually play their templates

Pots aren't a template, bolas aren't a template, apples aren't a template, petals aren't a template, trap boxes aren't a template. Playing their template is EXACTLY what I want.

UO would have nothing but pure mages in it.

That'd be no bad thing, at least then spellplay and timing would determine the winner, but the fact that you think other templates would be non viable without those items illustrates perfectly what an over reliance newer PvPers have on them. Players no longer learn how to time spells or do anything for themselves, time a cure? No need just drink a pot, what happens when you're out of pots? Oh then you die and go restock. Its inane.

 

[puni666]

Potions have been in UO from the start, they've been heavily relied upon from sometime between the wod archers and wand abuse eras, to kid yourself that 'they were put in to be used' in that way is astoundingly naive.



Guess what else, no one other than you mentioned PvM.



My post was an idea, your post is a whine about my post.



There is no skill required to use pots, bolas, apples, petals or trap boxes.



Pots aren't a template, bolas aren't a template, apples aren't a template, petals aren't a template, trap boxes aren't a template. Playing their template is EXACTLY what I want.



That'd be no bad thing, at least then spellplay and timing would determine the winner, but the fact that you think other templates would be non viable without those items illustrates perfectly what an over reliance newer PvPers have on them. Players no longer learn how to time spells or do anything for themselves, time a cure? No need just drink a pot, what happens when you're out of pots? Oh then you die and go restock. Its inane.

Why are you babbling about what ALL players can use for EVERY template? Give the guy ideas on stat loss not how to dull the game down.

My idea is to adjust the timer of stat loss to equal a timer based on the the rank of whoever put you into stat. Low rank stat puts you in stat for a short time. High rank stat puts you in for a greater time.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Why are you babbling about what ALL players can use for EVERY template? Give the guy ideas on stat loss not how to dull the game down.

The idea was about stat loss. The items dull the game down. Stat loss could be used to decrease their reliance. Replying to other peoples arguing over trivial parts of my idea is not ME babbling its YOU babbling. You argue over things in someone elses post then complain its getting off topic.

 

[Berethrain]

Stat loss is pretty much irreplaceable. You can either leave it alone or place a system where no one can get rezzed till either you've won or you all die.

I prefer the 20 minute stat loss. For those who dont like it have never experienced factions to its fullest because they simply wont give it a chance, stat loss or no stat loss.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

As no one seems to have understood any part of what my idea was here is a version with some examples.

Current stat loss is intended to 'give death meaning', it doesn't, it just takes you out of the game for 20 minutes.

Part 1: Remove current stat loss.

Many templates use items to excess, endless trap boxes, cure pots make poisoning templates completely useless etc.

Part 2: As a balance to part 1: make stat loss a penalty for repeated use of items over skill.

For example, 1st cure pot fine, 2nd cure pot you lose 1.0 in every skill for 1 minute, 3rd cure pot and every cure pot after you lose 0.1 in every skill. The loss and return of skill done in a similar way to Pain Spike.

For example, first trap box fine, 2nd trap box done within a minute resists lowered, 3rd trap box done within a minute resists lowered again, eventually resulting in you taking more and more damage from the box (not sure if it actually targets a resist, but if its direct damage then maybe it could just be damage increased somehow, or a different penalty). Incentive to get Resist instead.

For example dexxers using heal pots, first heal pot fine, 2nd heal pot lowers Healing skill by 1.0 for 1 minute and so on as with the other examples. For Mages it could be Magery only. Related to what the item use is replacing.

As I said in my first post, the intention is not to nerf the items out of the game, they would still be a choice but to make repeated use in a short time worse than say curing with your template.

Stat loss doesn't have to be lose so much skill you can't play, minor loss done in a repeated way would still allow you to fight but have an affect on the fight (because you could still fight with it), unlike current stat loss which just takes you out completely.

Hopefully this makes better sense, as you said everyone has access to them and everyone uses them, so it would be a balance to removing the current stat loss and promote skill over item. The numbers are just examples but I wasn't thinking anything too drastic, and loss could be capped at say -5 which would be pretty hard to reach anyway. The penalty doesn't even have to be on the 2nd use it could be after 5. I'm talking short term stat loss, done in a way that affects a fight, by still allowing you to fight with it. It even adds the element you have to be tactical with your use the same way you have to be with your mana.

The numbers and balance of the idea would be down to balance testing and debate, I've exampled them here because it seemed like everyone thought I was trying to remove their precious items and it was clouding the idea with arguments.

 

[Berethrain]

that idea pretty much blows.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Then it matches your reply.

 

[Locryn Finck]

Stat loss is pretty much irreplaceable. You can either leave it alone or place a system where no one can get rezzed till either you've won or you all die.

I prefer the 20 minute stat loss. For those who dont like it have never experienced factions to its fullest because they simply wont give it a chance, stat loss or no stat loss.

So I take it you hate pvp then?

That can be the only reasonable explanation to how you could possibly want to see 20 minutes of statloss still exist.

THIS IS NOT THE FACTION SYSTEM THAT YOU USED TO KNOW AND LOVE. UO IS MAKING FACTIONS THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF PVP.

I put that in caps so it can sink in. They are no longer leaving it as a minority playstyle. WAKE. UP. And if the idea is to enroll as many as possible, while maintaining a system that incentivizes running, ganking, hiding and ambushing that leads to..... LESS PVP. I will just keep repeating this over and over I suppose. You speak as if there are hundreds of people still pvping every night. Sorry, but that ship has sailed. This is the reality:

"Ok guys we got some Oranges at ____________"

5 minutes later

A: "Yeah some people went down. So and So is taking a smoke break and I need to _____________. Dammit... Talk to you guys later"
B: "HAHA! We rolled those clowns! They logged to go play on Chessy/Any Other Shard? HAHA! Losers!"

5 minutes later

"So everybodys gone?"

 

[Storm]

Just want to remind everyone lets not let this turn into name calling! Not pointing any fingers, but i have the sense that's where we are heading !

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

.......

This is your very narrow minded view of the events at hand. All the members of the board more involved seem to agree that statloss does not decrease pvp. Also they do not seem to be trying to make Factions the primary source of pvp any more than they did (12?) years ago when they introduced the system. They are trying to Spice up Factions, in turn Spice up the availability of Systems, and also Give players options as to where they can perform tasks they enjoy. Would you stop trying to make it as if you have to be in factions to pvp, you have to be in factions to well uh.....I dunno, participate in factions....Nothing else.

Just want to remind everyone lets not let this turn into name calling! Not pointing any fingers, but i have the sense that's where we are heading !

It is going to be hard for a lot of people, Specially when people refuse to understand the other side of the argument. Or when people think their side of the argument is the only side with merit.

 

[Berethrain]

Then it matches your reply.

Good one.....but your idea still sucks.

 

[Berethrain]

THIS IS NOT THE FACTION SYSTEM THAT YOU USED TO KNOW AND LOVE.

Pretty sure this is the problem.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Pretty sure this is the problem.

It is the problem, but everyone needs to adapt. It is really not so bad, test the system point out the flaws (areas where exploitation is really happening and will happen) and the proposed systems will work.

Change is inevitable, they need to do more than just please the current people who use factions, they need to do more than just please the current player base. While both of those are important, there has to be a middle ground. If we are unwilling to help bring about change, change will come with out or input and with out our agreement, so which will it be?

 

[Lord Strahd]

Factions is boring, and stat loss is boring / dumb / whatever.

The Devs said they want change...

People have proposed 5 minute stat loss....whatever sounds great, its better than stupid 20 minutes.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Good one.....but your idea still sucks.

You're entitled to your opinion but without any reasoning don't expect it to make a difference.

 

[Berethrain]

You're entitled to your opinion but without any reasoning don't expect it to make a difference.

Neither will your shoddy ideas. Give it a rest.

 

[Berethrain]

If we are unwilling to help bring about change, change will come with out or input and with out our agreement, so which will it be?

I had an entire rant for this but it had a lot of swearing and the whole thing was pissing me off so I deleted it. So in short, theyre going to have to improve this drastically.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Neither will your shoddy ideas. Give it a rest.

Nah, my idea isn't shoddy, and I'm going to post anything that I want to.

 

[Berethrain]

Nah, my idea isn't shoddy, and I'm going to post anything that I want to.

Don't see anyone else saying its a good idea. Doesn't look like I'm wrong. Have fun.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Don't see anyone else saying its a good idea. Doesn't look like I'm wrong. Have fun.

They're not required to.

I haven't said you are wrong, I said you're entitled to your opinion, but as you can't say why you dislike the idea your opinion remains irrelavent.

 

[Cailleach]

Keep it polite folks, or this is on track to be the first thread locked in here!

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Stat Loss - Lets get this thread back on track and work towards some type of concensus

Keep some form?
-Yes

Reduced Time?
-Yes, 5 Mins (Non Faction Areas)
-No, 20 mins (Inside Faction Strongholds, Faction Towns and Silver Spawns)

Allow some ingame means to reduce?
-Yes

If yes, suggestions?
-Non faction areas: 1 minute reduction for each town your Faction controls

-Faction Base Defense Bonus: If Defenders control a specific town (Britain) they can use silver to activate a magical defense (Faster Recovery). Defenders reduce stat loss from 20mins to 15mins for the next 2hrs. Defense is usable once per day and only one Magical defense can be active at once.

Other inspired ideas: Unify Fel Pvp into one system. Universal 5 Minute Statloss in Fel ruleset for all players in non faction areas and 20 mins for all in Faction Areas (Faction Towns, and Spawns). Designate one large town/area [Buc's Den/Magencia] where players can spar, fight, duel and mass pvp without stat loss.

-Lore

 

[Berethrain]

I haven't said you are wrong,

Yeah you have.

Nah, my idea isn't shoddy,

This would mean Im wrong.


I can think of many reasons, but one is you're going to make mages have a huge advantage over dexers. Why fight you when they can just spam poison on you, or curse, or paralyze etc. By using your idea you'll be losing skill points simply by trying to keep yourself alive.

 

[Berethrain]

They need to make it when you are in statloss, using items to increase skill doesn't work.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Yeah you have.

This would mean Im wrong.

Oh for that yeah. What I mean is I'm not saying you're wrong for saying you dislike it, but for saying its shoddy implies it wasn't thought out, it was. Ideas can still be thought out and unpopular. If its unpopular thats fair enough it was only a suggestion.

I can think of many reasons, but one is you're going to make mages have a huge advantage over dexers. Why fight you when they can just spam poison on you, or curse, or paralyze etc. By using your idea you'll be losing skill points simply by trying to keep yourself alive.

Mages would lose skill points for using this stuff too, meaning their melee defense lowers and they get hit more as well as dropping the amount they heal and success of spells. Dexxers can Poison higher levels as can Ninjas, Mages also have interruption and stopping to cast to contend with, a dexxer could just off screen with a bandage, a penalty for Cure potions would handicap casters just as much if not more than dexxers, especially as something like this could bring back dp dexxers as a more viable template choice. 4s bandages are more than adequate to Cure.

Total Refresh wouldn't need to give penalties as its necessary for push through. Perhaps the whole system could apply to factions only as an additional balance to the artifacts.

 

[Berethrain]

Mages would lose skill points for using this stuff too, meaning their melee defense lowers and they get hit more as well as dropping the amount they heal and success of spells. Dexxers can Poison higher levels as can Ninjas, Mages also have interruption and stopping to cast to contend with, a dexxer could just off screen with a bandage, a penalty for Cure potions would handicap casters just as much if not more than dexxers, especially as something like this could bring back dp dexxers as a more viable template choice. 4s bandages are more than adequate to Cure.

Mages can simply cast cure. The system wouldn't affect them.

Again we're back to losing points for simply trying to stay alive.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I had an entire rant for this but it had a lot of swearing and the whole thing was pissing me off so I deleted it. So in short, theyre going to have to improve this drastically.

Perhaps, but I never said they would not have to I simply said people need to be more accepting to the fact that it is going to change, with or with out us.

I believe I said somewhere on these board before that I originally was not pleased with the proposed changes. Tested them, and still was not thrilled. But after some time (I think it was a day before I decided to start posting, so about that long) to think about things I came to the stance I take now.

 

[Berethrain]

I believe I said somewhere on these board before that I originally was not pleased with the proposed changes. Tested them, and still was not thrilled. But after some time (I think it was a day before I decided to start posting, so about that long) to think about things I came to the stance I take now.

Sure, and thats fine, I'm just not one to take the it's better than nothing stance. The majority of the time my criticism is probably destructive, but I'd like to think they'd take the good with the bad and then decide what to do. Not just come up with an idea, take only the good criticism and move on.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Mages can simply cast cure. The system wouldn't affect them.

Again we're back to losing points for simply trying to stay alive.

The system would affect them. Mages use Cure pots just as much as dexxers. Casting is interruptable.

You're not losing points for simply trying to stay alive, you're losing points for relying on items over your template.