The Greater Dragon Nerf

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Ahhh now the cute part of where you cant understand anything.

Well then that sure does account for why you can't seem to stay on target as to the topic. You keep replying to things you are totally clueless of.

And I do notice how your trying to sweep the 100% PvP and who cares about PvMr's under the rug. Admirable.

You have me confused with some one else, we talked ON THIS FORUM about how the Tamers gets Bush Wacked on a Disconnect. I thought and still do that it is wrong to invoke an auto death when the Player has no control.

You thought it was 100% appropriate to auto kill the player as everyone knows no one ever gets disconnected and just cheats by hitting the alt+f4. You know the same kind of posturing your doing here. Then you at least kept it about the topic and you were far less blatant in your hatred for PvMr's.

I'll number them for you because you're clearly having some sort of communication problem.

1. I wasn't being cute, I was being serious, what you posted made no sense.
2. Everything I have posted has been directly quoted and thus 'not staying on topic' is yet another figment of your imagination.
3. You are under the delusion that my first reply to you was weighted for PvP or PvM, it was weigthed for neither it was a direct comment on your post that biasedly claimed tamers are at all sorts of disadvantages that the devs support through 'being on the tamer haters side'. It isn't a play ground, the devs listen no more to tamer haters than they do for requests for bard content.
4. The topic wasn't about auto killing the player it was about auto stabling/logging out the player when they disconnect and it would be abused, and was entirely seperate to tamers, other than it was probably likened to their auto stable. This is another post we've spoke on, yes, but at no point does me 'using the wrong slayer' come into it.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Oh I see I am the Devil that made you do it. Am I also now going to be the Voices in your head?

I mean that is a rather unique way of offloading your posture.

I was just pointing out that you're *still* being a hypocrite, commenting on me editing a post when you have too.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Still waiting for you to prove that I hate greater dragons and tamers.....[/url]).

I do not need to prove it, nice try at turning it around though

You need to prove to me, by MY standards and criteria

 

[Taylor]

Still waiting for you to prove that I hate greater dragons and tamers.....[/url]).

I do not need to prove it, nice try at turning it around though

You need to prove to me, by MY standards and criteria

You make me sad. You are quite ruthless, EM. Your unwillingness to consider other viewpoints, your misquoting and selective quoting, and your use of blanket statements without supporting evidence demonstrates to everyone that you lack intellectually honestly. This much was certainly proved.

In your profile, you state, "What is your goal, to be right or to understand." In all my time of working for a D.C. think tank, I've rarely come across someone who is cares less about understanding.

Truely, I've never had any beef with you. If I've ever stepped on your toes, I apologize. I'll leave it at that.

I won't be able to see your posts any longer, but I do wish you the very best.

Kind Regards,

Fallon Valor

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I'll number them for you because you're clearly having some sort of communication problem.....
Cutsy stuff about having absolute knowledge

Nah, that is the Cute part and it fits right in with your posture of having absolute knowledge of everything. But as you said or should we say claimed, you are clueless about the posts, so it is no real surprise that you are not on the same page.

I was just pointing out that you're *still* being a hypocrite, commenting on me editing a post when you have too.

Oh, I get it now, hum .... mistaken you are. I was just laughing at the foibles of quoting posts that can be edited during/after the quote. And as you may have noticed, I went back and corrected the quote and then chose to delete a part of my reply that was directed at the part you removed ... Yeah it is tangled. And yeah that was a smart move removing that part, I was surprised you admitted that much.

Nothing nefarious on my part.

 

[Tina Small]

Since the publish, I've used three tamers on three shards with their GDs and I have to be honest and say that I'm not seeing much of a difference in how they handle PvM. I seldom if ever use GDs for PvP, so at this point I have no complaints about the changes Publish 60 made to GDs.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....
I won't be able to see your posts any longer, but I do wish you the very best....

Then the board wins, the moderators win etc.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Since the publish, I've used three tamers on three shards with their GDs and I have to be honest and say that I'm not seeing much of a difference in how they handle PvM. I seldom if ever use GDs for PvP, so at this point I have no complaints about the changes Publish 60 made to GDs.

Just curious did you do this the day the Nerf went live or is this after the ... next day of downs and ups, hot patches/fixes etc.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Nah, that is the Cute part and it fits right in with your posture of having absolute knowledge of everything. But as you said or should we say claimed, you are clueless about the posts, so it is no real surprise that you are not on the same page.

I don't have absoloute knowledge of everything and at no point in this post, or any previous, have I claimed otherwise. I have a screen name the same as everyone else and I post my opinions (who elses' would I be posting?) the same as everyone else.

We're not on the same page because you've read my first post and read it as a PvP rant when there isn't one there. Nor have I ever died in PvP using the wrong slayer on a dexxer, which lead to a long rant about some person you apparently once spoke to that wasn't me.

What I've posted in this thread, is that your long thread about how the devs are catering to the tamer haters is wrong, I pointed that out in fairly straight forward terms. Your reply was something about some labels you give people and slippery slopes, completely (& conveniently) ignoring everything that was said while being unnecessarily rude into the bargain.

I, like Syrus, am done talking to you for now, I hope you will re read this thread and understand it better. I also hope that you will log on your Tamer and find out how bad this change is even affecting you, as other posters seem to be unable to tell the difference.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I don't have absoloute knowledge
...

What I've posted in this thread, is that your long thread about how the devs are catering to the tamer haters is wrong,
...

Hum, contradicting your self in the same reply. You state with absolute knowledge "is wrong". It isn't just an opinion, because I am quite sure (you know as in short of absolute knowledge) that you would have said it is just your opinion, if that was all it was. Ergo, you state an absolute knowledge.

Well it isn't wrong, as the list demonstrates, the Devs, consistently sided with the vocal minority in every single one of those points.

The Greater Dragon nerf, is simply the latest case. I can hope that it is the last, but the Perspective that Tamers are only valid for doing Cock Fights, seemingly indicates that the Tamer ain't ever going to be released from the barrel.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Hum, contradicting your self in the same reply. You state with absolute knowledge "is wrong". It isn't just an opinion, because I am quite sure (you know as in short of absolute knowledge) that you would have said it is just your opinion, if that was all it was. Ergo, you state an absolute knowledge.

Well it isn't wrong, as the list demonstrates, the Devs, consistently sided with the vocal minority in every single one of those points.

The Greater Dragon nerf, is simply the latest case. I can hope that it is the last, but the Perspective that Tamers are only valid for doing Cock Fights, seemingly indicates that the Tamer ain't ever going to be released from the barrel.

"I post my opinions (who elses' would I be posting?)" I don't write it after everything I say, and neither do you, you also make statements that claim absoloute knowledge: "Well it isn't wrong"

The list is wrong as the reply demonstrated.

The devs didn't take a public vote on anything on that list other than pet dyes. (so there is no 'consistently sided with...'

Minoritys/Majoritys do not have volumes.

The Greater Dragon toning down was also not put to public vote, it was a dev decission and from what they've said something they've been meaning to do for a long time.

Have any of the other posters, in this thread or any other, agreed that Tamers are now only good for cock fights? If so can you link to it and point out the post number. The replies in this thread suggest that most people noticed no difference.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

"I post my opinions (who elses' would I be posting?)"

The list is wrong as the reply demonstrated.
....

Oh, I see you post an opion as an absolute knowledge. Good game if you can get away with it, but in the end, it tells of a person that is Dogmatic. It wont be a discussion, it will be a lecture. Yeah, you know you want to say "Oh, that sounds like you", I tend to deal with people the way they want to be dealt with. Seriously, you just need to laugh at the circular logic you posted. "The list is wrong as the reply demonstrated, the reply demonstrated the list was wrong." You made the reply, ergo, the reply can only be true and factual because you made it and you are not wrong.

....
The replies in this thread suggest that most people noticed no difference.

Oh, of course you mean the ones that are not Soloing, Small Mom and Pop Groups, Non Power Gamers (versus your Hacking, Exploiting, Cheating Wanna Bee Power Gamers), tough and challenging mobs that required the Pre NERF'd Greater Dragon, as their TOOL, their WEAPON, their way of having fun that HURT NO ONE, INTERFERED WITH NO ONE, but most certainly CAN NOT BE TOLERATED. I mean your group is all about telling them and everyone HOW UO IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED, you know like your rebuttals are telling in absolute knowledge format how it is and therefore everything you say is ... God Like right and any one else is .... well wrong, that is the circular logic, if your aware of it and playing the game, then *Shrug* so be it, if your not, well ...... you might want to consider that your ignorance of that fact has no ability to make the fact wrong.

Yeah, I would want to make them invisible if I were you and if you can't make them invisible, then yeah I agree do every trick, scam, con you can come up with to convince them that "Oh gosh no, all the I hate Tamers and / or Greater Dragons, have NO VOICE because there is NO VOLUME for them lmao and that means you too have no voice, so go away".

Well, we can play your game and speak opinions as absolute knowledge, they do in fact have a voice, they do in fact have a Volume to that voice. The Hate filled Vocal Minority that has never been able to stand Anyone having any kind of fun, unless they are the ones screwing them over has always yelled the loudest, whined the loudest, Logged in with the most toss away board accounts.

And they sure as heck do hate it when some one shows them for what they are.

Just curious, are you going to go harass the ones whining in the thread about the Champion Spawns? I mean those PvPr's are whining about a system that was just put in, you know the way the Nerf for Greater Dragons is being questioned Oh wait, I just lost you didn't I. I mean this is about the Solo PvMr' and they are worthless to be dismissed from the game. That thread is about the all important whiny PvPr's hacking, exploiting, cheating each other to see who can come up with the best hacks, cheats and exploits, to make sure they live while everyone else dies.

We do need to get our priorities right, First priority, cater to the Hackers, Cheaters, Exploiters.

Second priority, drive the Mom And Pop PvMR' trying to take on the Boss mobs out of the game or force them to be Battle Chicken Breeders so they can Do the Cock Fights.

 

[Duke SP]

I too, am a tamer and thought they needed to be nerfed.

 

[Sarsmi]

I'm kind of worried about being able to take down ancient wyrms during level 6 t maps. I mean, they already fly off when almost dead and heal up and its a pita to get them down at that point, if the dragons dont do enough damage now for that final killing blow...yikes. This could be a real big pain for t hunting tamers.

ok if this has miss up my t hunter being able to take on an AW with a GD then that is the biggest mistake I have ever seen EA make with the nerf stick. I have never been able to take on all four guardians and have to use the Lure one at a time off to fight with my GD, the AW has always been the means one of the bunch to take out, battles lasting 15-20 minutes with it, and me vetting like crazy. Now if nerf means I cannot take on an AW alone as before then that it, my t hunter has retired.

I dug up a few chests today, mainly to get stuff to unravel, and I did 3 level 6s and fought 6 or 7 AWs, I forget. Anyways, it seemed like the battles were slower than usual and one of them was annoying cause he was flighty and I kept having to chase him and attack, but other than that it was business as usual.

BTW the greater I'm using is in training, has 113/113 wrestle/tactics (eventually 120+ tho), 120 magery, nice strength, good HP. But certainly not finished with their training by any means. Only 78% phys, too. I never once felt like I was losing control while fighting an AW.

So far my fears are unfounded, however I don't do peerless or champ spawns so we'll see what those folk discover.

 

[Berethrain]

Well it isn't wrong, as the list demonstrates, the Devs, consistently sided with the vocal minority in every single one of those points.

That's because most people knew they were overpowered, including the devs. However the GD's are still hitting for 50-60 dmg with 70 resist.

You've simply seen the word "nerf" and are complaining regardless of what they can still do.

 

[sablestorm]

Oh, of course you mean the ones that are not Soloing, Small Mom and Pop Groups, Non Power Gamers (versus your Hacking, Exploiting, Cheating Wanna Bee Power Gamers), tough and challenging mobs that required the Pre NERF'd Greater Dragon, as their TOOL, their WEAPON, their way of having fun that HURT NO ONE, INTERFERED WITH NO ONE, but most certainly CAN NOT BE TOLERATED. I mean your group is all about telling them and everyone HOW UO IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED, you know like your rebuttals are telling in absolute knowledge format how it is and therefore everything you say is ...

I singled out this part because of the hurt no one, interfered with no one comment. Nerfs in general are tough because it's much harder for players to adjust to being weaker than it is to adjust to being stronger. Nerfs, however, are generally instituted to balance the game.

Case in point, I remember my bard used to kick serious booty. Heck, with the starting skills of 50 music and 50 provoking, you could kill dragons. There was no difficulty aspect to barding. There was just success or failure. I had basically had the same odds of provoking mongbats onto each other as I did provoking dragons, so they hit the bards with the nerf stick. Should they not have done that because us bards were pretty much in the same boat as tamers and their greater dragons.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Make no mistakes in perception, this is all about the Solo/Small Group PvMr being able to pit their personal skill against the most dangerous mobs in the game VS a group of people that are hell bent on defining that they HAVE NO RIGHT TO EVEN TRY OR WANT TO DO THAT.

Someone needs to get off the over-exaggerations and calm the **** down. No one has some ultra secret master plan to rid Sosaria of Tamers and solo players.


And no, aliens aren't alive and well, living with Elvis, in Las Vegas either.

 

[SDA1A]

Ah well, I kinda thought (to myself) my GD was the party members I could not find on my home shard. Sure a pvp nerf needed, maybe eliminate tamers althogether from partaking, no biggy to me. I cannot stand any form of pvp anymore with all these speedchuckers ingame.

Just a quick and not well written rant, flame on!

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....
Should they not have done that because us bards were pretty much in the same boat as tamers and their greater dragons.

I am risking answering this as if it is a question when you may be making an assertion.

I was not here for the decision to switch from, as a generalization, the skills of an object vs the skills of another object, to the extreme itemization that UO is today. The Stats, Resists, Skills of a Pet now, were for what ever the reason made to mimic the paradigm shift to itemization. In essence making Pets Items to be evaluated accordingly. Hence the obsession with max stats, resists and skills.

For bards, I can only imagine the same mentality applied. How best to force the bard into the new paradigm? I can imagine the thread, "It is unreasonable to believe that I a GM yadda yadda, will fall for yadda yadda, there for Bards MUST HAVE A BARDING RESISTANCE CHECK".

Ooops, there goes the Bard down the toilet.

Ooops, there goes the complexity of the game interaction through the roof.

So we create a phase locked complexity for Greater Dragons now that can prevent Special Attacks and Breath Attacks from ever firing.

Oh, so you can do a Special Attack, ok I am marking a Special Attack time as of now, Oh you can not perform that special Attack because the previous timer says 30 seconds has not expired, so now I will set the previous Special Attack to now, resetting the 30 second timer.

Oh, some how the pRNG let you actually break out of that locked loop (you should have bought a Lottery Ticket), hum Oh well go back to square one as there has been a Breath Attack, even though it was NEVER EXECUTED.

Mean while on to the Breath Attack.

Oh, so you can do a Breath Attack, ok I am marking a Breath Attack time as of now, Oh you can not perform that Breath Attack because the previous timer says 45 seconds has not expired, so now I will set the previous Breath Attack to now, resetting the 45 second timer.

Oh, some how the pRNG let you actually break out of that locked loop (you should have bought a Lottery Ticket), hum Oh well go back to square one as there has been a Special Attack, even though it was NEVER EXECUTED.

And the 100% justification for this escalation in complexity assuring failure? Why because a handful of whining PvP, I hate Tamers and / or Greater Dragons, pull all kinds of excrement out of their rear ends and sling it all over the place. They get joined by the Mean Spirited Group that ... hates Tamers and / or Greater Dragons and absolutely hate anyone that does not play the game the way they demand it MUST BE PLAYED. Insisting they are the only ones that KNOW HOW UO IS TO BE PLAYED.

So people just trying to have fun, impacting no one, get screwed over to placate the whiners.

Not just in the Greater Dragon Nerf, the Pet Dyes, the Reptalon being a waste of Stable space, the max 16 pets when they could easily allow the Pets to be turned to statues and back OR allow a created stable such as the Chicken Coop to store Pets offline from the UO Stable System.

All of the above were killed and remain dead because of the incessant whines of the "I hate Tamers and / Greater Dragons".

And do not forget the ones that insist that the Whiny "I hate Tamers and / or Greater Dragons" have no voice, because there is no volume, meaning the ones being nerf'd also have no voice, because there is no volume and ultimately meaning that the Dev's do the things they do in a total vacuum, because everyone that thinks they are voicing their opinion, have no volume and there for nothing is being said.

I mean that is really pretty funny if they can get away with it, it is a deflection tool to say Yeah my whines are causing you to be nerf'd, but I will deflect it back to the Dev's, by portraying the Dev's making decisions in a vacuum, there by white washing my actions causing you to be nerf'd.

 

[Connor_Graham]

So people just trying to have fun, impacting no one, get screwed over to placate the whiners.

Impacting no one? What about every non-tamer in PvP that had to deal with insta kills? Bite/Bleed Attack + 60-70 pt fire breath was pretty much a 1 shot killer from the time the GD's were introduced until now.

Seems to me someone is pissed because they can't go and park on top of a sampire in a coveted spot anymore. No more spot or kill stealing for you.

Get over it and adapt, or quit. Those are your only options. Trying to voice your opinion got lost the first time you insulted every non-tamer in the game.

 

[Berethrain]

Seems to me someone is pissed because they can't go and park on top of a sampire in a coveted spot anymore. No more spot or kill stealing for you.

Yeah, all of Engima's posts are translated into this: .

 

[Berethrain]

I knew I could count on you to prove this entire thing is 100% about you wanting to be able to 1 hit kill a Tamed Greater Dragon with an Opposing Slayer Weapon, I mean that is the better solution than ever trying to lose the extreme itemization and trying to get back to skills.

You're joking right?

 

[bumblefutz]

The "I liked my greater dragon because it could replace 10 other players in PVE, why did they nerf it?" post pretty much summed up this short-sighted wave of tears.

Hint: Not everyone who does PVE is a tamer, or thinks that you soloing the entire game with some stupid animal (that you dyed neon pink or something) is the height of awesomeness.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

The "I liked my greater dragon because it could replace 10 other players in PVE, why did they nerf it?" post pretty much summed up this short-sighted wave of tears.

Hint: Not everyone who does PVE is a tamer, or thinks that you soloing the entire game with some stupid animal (that you dyed neon pink or something) is the height of awesomeness.

You know your right.

And they do NOT SEEK TO NERF YOU, TO FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN BEING MEAN SPIRITED SEEK TO REDUCE YOUR ENTERTAINMENT OF THE GAME.

So feel free to identify yourself as some one that loves griefing people that are NOT AFFECTING YOUR GAME PLAY and oh poor you that you will quit UO because some one Roles Plays Seeing a Pink Greater Dragon while on a Binge. I mean their Role Playing WILL NOT BE TOLERATED BY YOU

 

[Berethrain]

And they do NOT SEEK TO NERF YOU, TO FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN BEING MEAN SPIRITED SEEK TO REDUCE YOUR ENTERTAINMENT OF THE GAME.

Lmao, whatever you say cupcake. Yes, they nerfed it out of spite of you. Rofl.

 

[dukarlo]

The fact is the nerf to greater dragons was long over due and much needed. On GL we had tamers wearing blessed suits doing nothing more than saying "all guard me" and running in the other direction or behind a sea of fields(nox para etc). As soon as a superdragon was on a player that player had no choice but to run off screen. The only type of char that could even risk going after the tamer is an evasion parry dexer and even that type of character couldnt risk staying around for very long. Offscreen pvp is one of worst aspects of pvp and we already deal with it constantly with the speedhacking in the game. I still feel as though they need to do something about the tamer logging out in order to save the pet after the tamer dies. While in no way should a player be banned for logging out a pet it certainly is still an exploit of game mechanics and should be fixed imo. As far as pvmers complaining about the nerf dont the superdragons still have 900 plus hp? How can anyone play a tamable tank that has that many hp while still having the ability to mage and or bandaid heal it and still complain? I criticize the devs quite often but in this case i will give credit where credit is due. Good job devs. Supers are still far from useless but youve made 90 percent of pvpers happy.

 

[sablestorm]

I am risking answering this as if it is a question when you may be making an assertion.

I'm actually not making an assertion, I'm debating it in my own head, much like I did with the pet dye debate before I established my own opinion on the matter. Anyway, I'm sleep so I will revisit this again when I awaken.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You know your right.

And they do NOT SEEK TO NERF YOU, TO FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN BEING MEAN SPIRITED SEEK TO REDUCE YOUR ENTERTAINMENT OF THE GAME.

So feel free to identify yourself as some one that loves griefing people that are NOT AFFECTING YOUR GAME PLAY and oh poor you that you will quit UO because some one Roles Plays Seeing a Pink Greater Dragon while on a Binge. I mean their Role Playing WILL NOT BE TOLERATED BY YOU

Contrary to your conspiracy theories, the general population of UO is not out to get you, and the Devs aren't caving to anyone's opinions but their own.

You really need to put that umbrella down Chicken Little.

 

[UOKaiser]

The fact is the nerf to greater dragons was long over due and much needed. On GL we had tamers wearing blessed suits doing nothing more than saying "all guard me" and running in the other direction or behind a sea of fields(nox para etc). As soon as a superdragon was on a player that player had no choice but to run off screen. The only type of char that could even risk going after the tamer is an evasion parry dexer and even that type of character couldnt risk staying around for very long. Offscreen pvp is one of worst aspects of pvp and we already deal with it constantly with the speedhacking in the game. I still feel as though they need to do something about the tamer logging out in order to save the pet after the tamer dies. While in no way should a player be banned for logging out a pet it certainly is still an exploit of game mechanics and should be fixed imo. As far as pvmers complaining about the nerf dont the superdragons still have 900 plus hp? How can anyone play a tamable tank that has that many hp while still having the ability to mage and or bandaid heal it and still complain? I criticize the devs quite often but in this case i will give credit where credit is due. Good job devs. Supers are still far from useless but youve made 90 percent of pvpers happy.

PVP aspect of the nerf is fine. Just the PVM aspect wasnt needed. Besides next week the tamers will focus on nerfing maybe mages or archers one of the other for revenge then after they get nerf the mages-dexters will focus on maybe cu or making gd weaker and then it goes around again. Never ending circle. Who gets caught in the middle pvm players that is the annoying part.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

... As far as pvmers complaining about the nerf dont the superdragons still have 900 plus hp? How can anyone play a tamable tank that has that many hp while still having the ability to mage and or bandaid heal it and still complain?...

Tell you what, I will accept your position ..... on one condition.

Lets us go through all your weapons,

First off we will double or triple the delay time, so it is equal to the Greater Dragon Movement nerf. (yeah I know your going to say that is not equal but then YOU come up with an equivalence that allows your opponent to EASILY move away from you and heal) which affects PvM because the Greater Dragon after the nerf, can vary from being a marginal closer to a NON CLOSER, because the MoB can just walk away from the Greater Dragon and in some cases into a Pile of Mobs just waiting to eat the Greater Dragon AND the Tamer who needs to Bandaid and / or Greater Heal it. This movement NERF was being mitigated/hidden, in the context of PvM, because the Greater Dragon could finish the mob before it wondered on over to that pack of dangerous creatures. This NERF was to correct a perceived problem in PvP that is NOW AFFECTING PvM.

Second, now any specialties on your weapons that do actively do things that are equivelent to the Special Attacks and let us DOUBLE THE TIME BETWEEN THEIR FIRING.

Let us further complicate the issue by setting a minimum time between executions and reset the timer regardless of the thing failing to be executed or not.

Let us further complicate the issue by having it interact with any special moves you may have such that they can be phase locked so you will never do either.

And let us remember this is 100% PvM based, no one is arguing about the PvP ....

And as such, the Nerf for PvM is for what purpose? How does it enhance the game play of those that ... lets just call them Casual players that .... lets just say they want to log in and have fun, so how did this improve their entertainment value of UO? Oh, by removing their ability to go after higher end mobs and test their skills against mobs that can one hit them.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Oh, I see you post an opion as an absolute knowledge. Good game if you can get away with it, but in the end, it tells of a person that is Dogmatic. It wont be a discussion, it will be a lecture. Yeah, you know you want to say "Oh, that sounds like you", I tend to deal with people the way they want to be dealt with. Seriously, you just need to laugh at the circular logic you posted. "The list is wrong as the reply demonstrated, the reply demonstrated the list was wrong." You made the reply, ergo, the reply can only be true and factual because you made it and you are not wrong.

Thats a chip on your shoulder not mine. Your list was biased, ignorant and incorrect. You claimed to know how the devs make their decissions, you clearly do not.

Oh, of course you mean the ones that are not Soloing, Small Mom and Pop Groups, Non Power Gamers (versus your Hacking, Exploiting, Cheating Wanna Bee Power Gamers), tough and challenging mobs that required the Pre NERF'd Greater Dragon, as their TOOL, their WEAPON, their way of having fun that HURT NO ONE, INTERFERED WITH NO ONE, but most certainly CAN NOT BE TOLERATED. I mean your group is all about telling them and everyone HOW UO IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED, you know like your rebuttals are telling in absolute knowledge format how it is and therefore everything you say is ... God Like right and any one else is .... well wrong, that is the circular logic, if your aware of it and playing the game, then *Shrug* so be it, if your not, well ...... you might want to consider that your ignorance of that fact has no ability to make the fact wrong.

I haven't comented on anyones ability to solo, your now claiming I'm hacking, exploiting, cheating? Based on? Is your repeated use of the drink smilie a clue? Cry for help?

Yeah, I would want to make them invisible if I were you and if you can't make them invisible, then yeah I agree do every trick, scam, con you can come up with to convince them that "Oh gosh no, all the I hate Tamers and / or Greater Dragons, have NO VOICE because there is NO VOLUME for them lmao and that means you too have no voice, so go away".

I don't use any tricks or scams and even if I did whats that got to do with this thread? One persons post is no louder than another persons.

Well, we can play your game and speak opinions as absolute knowledge, they do in fact have a voice, they do in fact have a Volume to that voice. The Hate filled Vocal Minority that has never been able to stand Anyone having any kind of fun, unless they are the ones screwing them over has always yelled the loudest, whined the loudest, Logged in with the most toss away board accounts.

I didn't say they didn't have a voice, you did. I said they don't have different volumes, which they don't.

And they sure as heck do hate it when some one shows them for what they are.

Is that what you think you've done? All I think you've done is show people that your incapable of discussion and replying to what was said, you make up your own version of peoples posts to reply to.

Just curious, are you going to go harass the ones whining in the thread about the Champion Spawns?

I haven't harassed anyone. I posted that your attack on another poster was ridiculous, contradictory and hypocritical, as has everything you've said since.

I mean those PvPr's are whining about a system that was just put in, you know the way the Nerf for Greater Dragons is being questioned

The nerf for Greater Dragons isn't being questioned.

Oh wait, I just lost you didn't I. I mean this is about the Solo PvMr'

This thread is about the Greater Dragon nerf, but as you're content to fill in everyone elses side of the discussion, I'm wondering why you even needed internet access.

That thread is about the all important whiny PvPr's hacking, exploiting, cheating each other to see who can come up with the best hacks, cheats and exploits, to make sure they live while everyone else dies.

Good? You're post was still ridiculous, contradictory and hypocritical regardless of what other threads you're reading.

We do need to get our priorities right, First priority, cater to the Hackers, Cheaters, Exploiters.

They may be yours but they aren't mine.

Second priority, drive the Mom And Pop PvMR' trying to take on the Boss mobs out of the game or force them to be Battle Chicken Breeders so they can Do the Cock Fights.

I wasn't aware your 'mom and pop' played but wether they do or not is irrelavent. Your post was still ridiculous, contradictory and hypocritical.

 

[dukarlo]

Tell you what, I will accept your position ..... on one condition.

Lets us go through all your weapons,

First off we will double or triple the delay time, so it is equal to the Greater Dragon Movement nerf. (yeah I know your going to say that is not equal but then YOU come up with an equivalence that allows your opponent to EASILY move away from you and heal)

Second, now any specialties on your weapons that do actively do things that are equivelent to the Special Attacks and let us DOUBLE THE TIME BETWEEN THEIR FIRING.

Let us further complicate the issue by setting a minimum time between executions and reset the timer regardless of the thing failing to be executed or not.

Let us further complicate the issue by having it interact with any special moves you may have such that they can be phase locked so you will never do either.

And let us remember this is 100% PvM based, no one is arguing about the PvP ....

And as such, the Nerf for PvM is for what purpose? How does it enhance the game play of those that ... lets just call them Casual players that .... lets just say they want to log in and have fun, so how did this improve their entertainment value of UO? Oh, by removing their ability to go after higher end mobs and test their skills against mobs that can one hit them.

Actually I play a mage. And a tamer will still do far more damage over time than a mage despite slayer books etc. As far as anyone trying to convince me that thier character is ruined by this fix, my first love in this game was playing a thief. Your character hasnt even approached the level of castration that thieves were subjected too. As a thief I cannot even begin to hear the cries of tamers that still have a wide arrange of pets to use as well as a 900 hp dragon that can be used as a tank to kill creatures.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
I wasn't aware your 'mom and pop' played but wether they do or not is irrelavent. Your post was still ridiculous, contradictory and hypocritical.

Ah well, you have slid way down that slippery slope, peace, be safe and have fun

I suppose your in the process of skilling up being cutsy.

 

[Berethrain]

Second, now any specialties on your weapons that do actively do things that are equivelent to the Special Attacks and let us DOUBLE THE TIME BETWEEN THEIR FIRING.

I'm alright with that when one of my hits from any weapon does as much a greater dragon hit.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
my first love in this game was playing a thief. Your character hasnt even approached the level of castration that thieves were subjected too.....

Then obviously you were not a Tamer when UO began.

You may not know, that there were:

A) No limits on the number of pets you could stable.
B) No limits on the number of pets you could have out with you.
C) No Control Slots to limit the Pet Combination or Numbers
D) No Cutting the Tamed Pet's abilites when tamed.
E) Dragons, White Wyrms, NightMares were perhpas as powerful as the PRE NERF Greater Dragon, Dread War Horse, Cu Sidhe+Hiryu
F) Had no line of site restrictions in Taming Pets, such that now in some places nothing visible Blocks/Cancels your taming a pet.
G) The pets could Fly, could move at full speed.

There is 10 times that list ... but they are of lesser value

Now then you want to tell me how The Orignal Tamer was NOT ... to use your word, Castrated? In my opinion, every bit as much as the Naked Bank Thief was if not more and for a LOT LESS REASONS.

 

[Berethrain]

A) No limits on the number of pets you could stable.
B) No limits on the number of pets you could have out with you.
C) No Control Slots to limit the Pet Combination or Numbers
D) No Cutting the Tamed Pet's abilites when tamed.
E) Dragons, White Wyrms, NightMares were perhpas as powerful as the PRE NERF Greater Dragon, Dread War Horse, Cu Sidhe+Hiryu
F) Had no line of site restrictions in Taming Pets, such that now in some places nothing visible Blocks/Cancels your taming a pet.
G) The pets could Fly, could move at full speed.

Yeah, these were obviously nerfed for no reason.......

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Ah well, you have slid way down that slippery slope, peace, be safe and have fun

I suppose your in the process of skilling up being cutsy.

Your labels do not matter to me, neither do your suppose's, your approval isn't needed for other people to post. No amount of deviation will hide that what you posted was ignorant and wrong.

 

[Lynk]

There is no way I'm actually going to read every one of enigma's posts.

From skimming here is what I've gathered.

Enigma is upset because it takes him 45 seconds longer to kill something than it previously did.

No one else agrees with him.

Everyone, for the most part, is ok with the GD nerf.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Now then you want to tell me how The Orignal Tamer was NOT ... to use your word, Castrated? In my opinion, every bit as much as the Naked Bank Thief was if not more and for a LOT LESS REASONS.

That would obviously be a futile exercise, as every other reason pointed out to you in this thread you've ignored and deviated to one of your hate labels. You clearly hate any group that doesn't share your tamer world view.

 

[Zero Day]

Actually I changed my mind, watching unfounded griping is way more entertaining than proving people wrong.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

RE: Zero Day & #2.

I really hope thats the case, that is what I mainly wanted, the 'when hitting players' change.

 

[Zero Day]

Dangit God you read too fast!!

 

[Splup]

Umh... So GD:s do less damage then used to? That's just a good thing.

I mean heck, it's supposed to be a tank, and it's still a great tank. It can take a lot of damage and it's easy to keep it healed.

If I want to make a lot of damage I take beetle and mare, or dragon and a mare, or you name it.

My discotamer does very well both ways...

 

[dukarlo]

Then obviously you were not a Tamer when UO began.

You may not know, that there were:

A) No limits on the number of pets you could stable.
B) No limits on the number of pets you could have out with you.
C) No Control Slots to limit the Pet Combination or Numbers
D) No Cutting the Tamed Pet's abilites when tamed.
E) Dragons, White Wyrms, NightMares were perhpas as powerful as the PRE NERF Greater Dragon, Dread War Horse, Cu Sidhe+Hiryu
F) Had no line of site restrictions in Taming Pets, such that now in some places nothing visible Blocks/Cancels your taming a pet.
G) The pets could Fly, could move at full speed.

There is 10 times that list ... but they are of lesser value

Now then you want to tell me how The Orignal Tamer was NOT ... to use your word, Castrated? In my opinion, every bit as much as the Naked Bank Thief was if not more and for a LOT LESS REASONS.

It seems that arguing with you is pointless as the vast majority of players are happy the fix was made but you seem set in your ways. Trust me I remember the days of 4 dragons following a tamer but that didnt make it right then either. Tamers werent really a problem as thier were so few of them with high skill in the first few years of the game. They were out there but in very small numbers.Only when everyone and thier brother had tamers did they really start to become a problem. Its the same thing with the superdragons. Everyone has one.Back then if you killed the tamer, the pets were sure to die as you couldnt simply log out to save a pet. There was no pet bonding and to be perfectly honest a noob tamer walking around with 4 pets pre trammel were bound to get ganked by other players. You could also gate peoples pets away and send them to the Balron room for example. Control slots were simply another fix that needed to be made and was more than fair. A tamer can still ride a mare and use a dragon/beetle. A tamer can still solo most creatures in the game except for maybe the highest of boss like creatures. There is no comparison to the thief nerfs and the tamer nerfs. Im done trying to argue with you as you have no argument to stand on.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

It seems that arguing with you is pointless as the vast majority of players are happy the fix was made but you seem set in your ways. Trust me I remember the days of 4 dragons following a tamer but that didnt make it right then either. Tamers werent really a problem as thier were so few of them with high skill in the first few years of the game. They were out there but in very small numbers.Only when everyone and thier brother had tamers did they really start to become a problem. Its the same thing with the superdragons. Everyone has one.Back then if you killed the tamer, the pets were sure to die as you couldnt simply log out to save a pet. There was no pet bonding and to be perfectly honest a noob tamer walking around with 4 pets pre trammel were bound to get ganked by other players. You could also gate peoples pets away and send them to the Balron room for example. Control slots were simply another fix that needed to be made and was more than fair. A tamer can still ride a mare and use a dragon/beetle. A tamer can still solo most creatures in the game except for maybe the highest of boss like creatures. There is no comparison to the thief nerfs and the tamer nerfs. Im done trying to argue with you as you have no argument to stand on.

Of course this is with all due respect ... and you are certainly entitled to your ... lmao ... opinion, no one should ever try to take that ... set of opinions away from you

I would be too if I were you, funny how you did NOT know any of this when you decided to compare your Thief Nerf and I notice you do not even know how they were initialy nerfed and why.

Even now the only thing you had right was the Gate a Pet away which was the morons method of winning, the smarter person Gated a Balron to the Tamer/Pet and hid/invis, funny how you did not KNOW THAT, I mean having been there and all. Why do you think you can NOT lure mobs through Gates oh perhaps that didnt show up on your Google.

Funny how you want to say that the Original Tamers of UO are the same power wise as the current Tamers of UO. Reality, the Current Tamers have oh I dont know, lets be generous to you hum ... 0.000000000000001% of the Power the Original Tamers had and you want to say Oh they were not nerfed.

You might want to know that your naked bank thief despite all the warnings from DD/OSI, despite all the slaps at them, all the little, tiny, insignificant nerfs chose to IGNORE DD's/OSI's declaration of war, if they DID NOT STOP EXPLOITING THE GAME TO HARASS PLAYERS and put the naked bank thief ala all thieves on the Social Peria list to NEVER RECOVER. ARROGANCE AND IGNORANCE MAKE A WONDERFUL COUPLE.

How funny you are with the declaration of the over whelming majority, as in the only people that count are the ones that blatantly want Tamers Out of the Game, want Greater Dragons out of the game. Any one that doesn't toe the "I hate tamers and /or Greater Dragons" line are ... well obviously worthless and need to be thrown out of the game. As they clearly do NOT KNOW HOW UO IS TO BE PLAYED.

Sorry, you are in the statistically insignificant minority. In the old days on CoB you would be labeled as the Microbe on the tip of the Flea on the Tip of the Dragon, trying to wag the Dragon.

Fair enough, some times the Dragon twitches, it may not know why, just that it thought it felt an irritant at the end of its tail, then promptly forgot about it. But the twitch cause problems and it takes vocalization to restore, to use one of EA/Mythics terms, sanity to the game.

Hence the point of this thread is the one thing that rankles the crap out of all you "I am the only one that knows how to play UO" and "I hate Tamers and / or Greater Dragons", there is NO APPARENT JUSTIFICATION FOR THE PvM NERF. Because you may have difficulty in connecting the dots, there is an easy AKA - IT doesn't matter that the Nerf in PvM is HUGE OR SMALL, there IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR IT.

And it just fits the pattern of nerfs aimed specifically at Tamers, not a single one of which is Justified, every one is the direct product of whiny "I am the only one that knows how UO IS TO BE PLAYED" and "I HATE TAMERS AND / OR GREATER DRAGONS" and an apparent perception by EA/Mythic that the ONLY VALUE FOR A TAMER IS TO BE A BATTLE CHICKEN BREEDER AND DO COCK FIGHTS.

Appearance's can be deceiving, I certainly admit that but then there is the preponderance of evidence.

Most tamers want more pets than the old 14 or new 16. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices.

Most tamers want the pet dye's for personal expression. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices. And my personal favorite rebuttal to pet dyes, "I know what Art is, I know what good taste is, I know what is esthetically pleasing and it is CLEAR YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF THAT"

Most tamers want the Reptalon to be made useful, instead of useless. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices, from a PvM perspective.

Most tamers liked the Greater Dragon the way it was from a PvM perspective. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices, from a PvM perspective.

 

[Sarsmi]

Has anyone tried a GD against a peerless or a champ today?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

there IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR IT.

Not that the devs have to justify their actions to you but, yes, there is, you're just too arrogant and ignorant to see it.

You keep banging on about evidence yet fail to produce any.

 

[Taylor]

Not that the devs have to justify their actions to you but, yes, there is, you're just too arrogant and ignorant to see it.

The devs know that everyone disagrees with him and everyone else knows that his reputation is irreparably damaged. There's no point in arguing with the self-deceived. Let him sweep up the pieces of his credibility and slink away.

Meantime, my greater performed about the same with Trav and Griz post-nerf. Haven't tried any peerless yet. Gonna get a group together for Medusa this weekend. She's hella fun!

 

[archite666]

FYI: I skimmed most of this thread.

Tamers were/are still OP in pvp. Bola+all kill+ smoke bomb= win.

Even with GD nerfed, you will still see tamers with Mares and beetles, running around in ostard form.

Enigma, youv posted probably more than youv played recently.

The dragon nerf not only made me buy SA but Id also like to have beetles and mare combo nerfed.

Id like to see armor corrupt removed vs players.

animal form take a control slot

And maybe a few other changes.

I dont hate tamers, I love balance. They shouldnt be in pvp but since they are, they should at least be balanced.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

FYI: I skimmed most of this thread.

Tamers were/are still OP in pvp. Bola+all kill+ smoke bomb= win.

Even with GD nerfed, you will still see tamers with Mares and beetles, running around in ostard form.

Enigma, youv posted probably more than youv played recently.

The dragon nerf not only made me buy SA but Id also like to have beetles and mare combo nerfed.

Id like to see armor corrupt removed vs players.

animal form take a control slot

And maybe a few other changes.

I dont hate tamers, I love balance. They shouldnt be in pvp but since they are, they should at least be balanced.

And you have spoken as far as I can see only about PvP. I don't think you will find anyone, in any of the threads, saying anything about the PvP aspects, well other than the PvP people, either reiterating how they can not deal with Tamers and Greater Dragons OR how PvM Tamers are ... insert any number of insults .... and the only thing that matters is after all the PvP nerf and .... insert any number of I know how UO is to be played and no one else does.

So I can appreciate you singing to the PvP choir, but an aspect of this Issue deals with PvM and the fact the nerf is not only pointless but without justification.

Now then, let me repay your kindness in being obsessed with my play time vs my post time

The amount of time you spent thinking about what you were going to post, then posting it, perhaps would have been better spent learning how to live with Tamers with Greater Dragons vs How to die with Tamers with Greater Dragons.

On the other hand, we could both, limit our obsessions with Play Time vs Post time to our self, and let others obsesses about how they spend their own time. We may even find that doing that we do not have the time to Grief others play style, try to force them to play only the Play Styles we approve and well shucks, just not be obsessed with what they are doing and gosh just lay back and have fun with what we have. That little diatribe can be found under the Heading Tolerance