PvM Challenge : annoying or fun ?

[popps]

Recently I had a discussion with someone in the game about the respawn.

I was observing that most monsters have nowadays a raspawn rate that is ridicolous. Killed one another is right up and fighting.

This, does not even leave time to loot the corspe which makes it meaningless to fight them in the first place....

The other player was observing that this was to bring some challenge to PvM.

Well, rather than putting the turbo to respawn rate to bring a challenge, wouldn't it be MUCH better to actually bring some better Monster AI so that they fight better but then, once they are dead, the players actually have time to loot their corpses, re organize, perhaps heal themselves and their pets ?

I mean, fighting a spawn also need to have a sense of accomplishment which is, IMHO, to see the spawn CLEARED at least for some time.

If monsters just keep spawning, and keep spawning and keep spawning endlessly and relentlessly, what is the sense of it all ? There never can be a feeling of accomplishment to have cleared an area from them, at least for a reasonable time.

Perhaps, I think, it could be better that instead of pumping the respawn rates up, that monsters where made more a challenge to fight them but then, once killed, there was some time before a new one respawned.

The way I see it, the fast respawns only promote farming (even though I wonder what type of farming when one hardly even has the time to loot the corpses) which, as I see it, is not really too much good for the game.

 

[-=KLiM=-]

what monstres were you fighting? Most of 'em can wait couple of seconds while you're looting the previous corpse, hence no problem here. Most monsters in UO are too easy, i remember the spawn rate in trammel was pretty low earlier, and people were just waiting doin' nothing while the monster respawned. Guess it's better the way it is currently.

 

[Padre Dante]

I hear (and respect!) what you are saying. I agree that it makes it harder to loot. For tamers, it is eased a bit, as you can just have your pet(s) attack the MOB(s). Archers? A bit more difficult. Also, stronger MOBs might mean better loot, and that's better than more, nowadays, it seems.

The one instance where I really appreciate the spawn rate is in Tokuno, the mines specifically. During the ToT events, it's quantity over quality, hands down. Also, the fast rate really helps me train certain skills like discordance.

 

[Tina Small]

Popps, there's an expansion on the near horizon that includes some different monster AI. I suggest you hold onto your complaints and suggestions until you've had a chance to thoroughly explore the new content. Right now I seriously doubt the developers will even pay attention to this thread as they finish up polishing the expansion. Your feedback will be of much more value to them in a few weeks when it can include what you think of their latest innovation, instead of commenting on content that has been around for many years.

 

[popps]

The one instance where I really appreciate the spawn rate is in Tokuno, the mines specifically. During the ToT events, it's quantity over quality, hands down.

Fast respawn only makes sense for the Events when items drop in players' backpacks.

Then, in order to increase the chances of a good drop one has to kill many, fast and not have time to loot corpses. But ain't that farming at its best ?

My point is, that fast respawns do nothing but incite to farm......

I remember a few weeks ago someone posting about a young player who was trying to clean up an Orc fort or a skeleton Fort. A fort of some sort if I do not recall wrong.

Well, unfortunately, as spawns are handled now this cannot be done and, to my opinion, it is a pity as it takes away from players that feeling of accomplishing something, the cleaning up of a spawn if only for some times.....

Having monsters respawn one right after the other makes only sense towards farming to get items or gold and the more the better.

My question is, though, is this "playing" ?

Wouldn't it be better to actually make fighting a spawn more meaningfull, beyond just going there to farm monsters for items or gold ?

 

[Harlequin]

Spawn rate is fine as it is.

Different dungeons have different spawn rates. Tokuno dungeons respawn quite fast. Malas next, then Ish, then legacy dungeons. I think it's got to do with the size of the shard.

Edit: I mean size of the subserver, not shard.


If the spawn is overwhelming you, lure some of the side spawn away. Or try the legacy dungeon. You can also share a spawn with someone else. If you are still being overwhelmed, you can also do a combination of all three.

Finally see my reply to your post in the tamer forum. Lots of helpful folks around who would be glad to give advice.

My request for you is to give others a chance to reply first, before jumping straightaway into complain-mode. It would also be nice to thank others if their advice have helped you.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I think it's time Stratics started a separate forum for all of Popps' posts... oh wait, there is! SnR!

 

[hen]

Orc brutes take forever to spawn sometimes.

It was Hanse who turned up the spawn rate in dungeons. At the time some rp groups were unhappy about it. I do believe the orc fort Yew spawn got turned down on Catskills and Siege. There is always Rock dungeon for evil rp gatherings too.

 

[popps]

It was Hanse who turned up the spawn rate in dungeons. At the time some rp groups were unhappy about it.

Personally, I think that slower respawns would actually be a good thing (against farming, that is) since they would promote players to actually "change" spawns rather than sitting for hours always at the same spawn.....

And, of course, they would allow for a feeling of accomplishment to have been able to actually clean up a spawn for sometime...

 

[vinque]

Well, I can throw two cents in as an "old" returning player ('99-'01 and gave away my account, doh!). I recently made "the move" on my melee from fighting earth ele's to trogs. The first time I cleared an area of EE in Shame, it was kinda cool and I felt like I accomplished something, but the feeling eventually faded and my need for cash made me wish the spawn was a little quicker so I wouldn't have to run all over the dungeon to find stuff to fight. Now I move to the painted caves and the spawn is lightning quick and I have to adjust to fighting/looting at the same time. I like it from a cash/leveling standpoint, but it would be nice to have an option. I mean, it would be cool to "clear out" the painted caves for 20-30 secs. I guess, like popps, I'm a pain in the butt to please.

 

[popps]

I like it from a cash/leveling standpoint, but it would be nice to have an option. I mean, it would be cool to "clear out" the painted caves for 20-30 secs. I guess, like popps, I'm a pain in the butt to please.

Well, "perhaps" if spawns were more "dynamics", that is tied to the number of players present in the area, this would become a "non" issue ?

That is, if in the area there is only 1 player, then the spawn is slow, with time in between respawns to give to that 1 player time to loot, heal, adjust and get ready for the new spawn.

But if more than 1 player is present, and depending on how many players come to the area, the spawn engine "self adjusts" to a higher rate to take into account the higher number of players.

Just an idea, but there could be ways to make spawns reasonable for less or more players alike......

 

[Tina Small]

Popps, during the open beta period, did you bother to take advantage of being able to get a sneak preview of the Abyss, the Underworld, the Tomb of Kings, and the overland areas of Ter Mur??

Did you actually make any characters at all on Retribution and TRY OUT the new content yourself? It didn't cost a cent. All it required was taking the time to download A CLIENT (who cares which one you preferred), making a character or two, using one of the pre-made suits ("give armor" command) or making your own by crafting or cobbling together something from artis, and then going out and doing some exploring.

Did you bother? Or is it just easier to come here and complain about things without putting any effort into finding out if possibly there's something already in the game or coming soon that just might give you some satisfaction for once??

 

[ACB1961]

Recently I had a discussion with someone in the game about the respawn.

I was observing that most monsters have nowadays a raspawn rate that is ridicolous. Killed one another is right up and fighting.

This, does not even leave time to loot the corspe which makes it meaningless to fight them in the first place....

The other player was observing that this was to bring some challenge to PvM.

Well, rather than putting the turbo to respawn rate to bring a challenge, wouldn't it be MUCH better to actually bring some better Monster AI so that they fight better but then, once they are dead, the players actually have time to loot their corpses, re organize, perhaps heal themselves and their pets ?

I mean, fighting a spawn also need to have a sense of accomplishment which is, IMHO, to see the spawn CLEARED at least for some time.

If monsters just keep spawning, and keep spawning and keep spawning endlessly and relentlessly, what is the sense of it all ? There never can be a feeling of accomplishment to have cleared an area from them, at least for a reasonable time.

Perhaps, I think, it could be better that instead of pumping the respawn rates up, that monsters where made more a challenge to fight them but then, once killed, there was some time before a new one respawned.

The way I see it, the fast respawns only promote farming (even though I wonder what type of farming when one hardly even has the time to loot the corpses) which, as I see it, is not really too much good for the game.

I'll give you some respect. Honestly, I don't see why you get all that hate anyway.

Here's what you do at a place with insta-respawn. Attack the mob and lead it down the hall or around the corner. Kill it, loot it, and then go get another one. Miasma is the perfect example of that because sometimes we kill them so fast its hard to loot them.

 

[popps]

I'll give you some respect. Honestly, I don't see why you get all that hate anyway.

Here's what you do at a place with insta-respawn. Attack the mob and lead it down the hall or around the corner. Kill it, loot it, and then go get another one. Miasma is the perfect example of that because sometimes we kill them so fast its hard to loot them.

Great, but ain't that a work around to a problem if I may note ?

I mean, why not fix the issue in the first place rather than force players to find work arounds all of the time ?

Some say use area peace and loot, some say pull it around the corner some say something else. Bottom line is, to deal with a respawn problem often people brings up patching up solutions.

Wouldn't instead be better a mainstream solution rather than a patched up one ?

Like for example, to have re-spawns depend on the number of players in a given area.
Only 1 player triggers a slow respawn, more players get a raising respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

Problem solved for good.

 

[Fink]

Perhaps the respawn time was shortened to match the ever-shrinking attention span of the modern gamer.

This discussion brings two things to my mind..

..a pvper friend of mine said if they reverted to pre-AoS now, he might find the pvp a little dull as fights tended to last much longer. He's attuned to the frenzied fighting style that exists now. Maybe a similar thing for pvm; a long time between spawns would be a yawn-fest.

..a pvmer I once ran into at Swoops complained that they respawned too fast. I said, "They're not aggressive, it's not like you have to kill them as soon as the pop up". Maybe if things are respawning too fast for you, popps, you might try leading the mob away from the spawn point as you're killing it. That ought to give you more time to loot.

--

As for clearing a dungeon or having a sense of accomplishment in pvm, I guess that's what the champ spawns or peerless are for. There's a start, a quantifiable progression, and an end-game with reward.

Other than those I can't see much capacity for pvm to instill one with a sense of accomplishment. Even peerless and champs are soloable and routine for some top-end pvmers. I believe the SA stuff has already been cracked by the soloists.

 

[Lore Master]

The re spawn rate for most creatures is fine in fact I wish some creatures would re spawn faster so I say no need to change anything. if any change at all is needed re spawn certain creatures sooner or leave it as is.

 

[MalagAste]

I'd sure like to know where your hunting....

Most the stuff I hunt takes too darn long to respawn making it too boring to hunt there....

Example.... Wind.... back in the back is a hall with 2 demons... the spawn rate on these fella's is VERY slow.... I kill them both.... wait.... kill one..... wait..... kill one.... wait... Get bored... leave...

I prefer them to spawn a bit faster.

 

[popps]

Perhaps the respawn time was shortened to match the ever-shrinking attention span of the modern gamer.

It could well be although, I do not understand it.

Personally, I look into a game something to escape the frenzy and high stress of my real life.

When I get home from a day of work, problems to solve, issues and messing things I am tired, sometimes DEAD tired, and I sure do not want to get into a game that stresses me even further or gets me more nervous or hectic than what I already am......

I want to relax, get my mind elsewhere and forget about the mess and frenetic whirling life.

So, sometimes, a nicely quiet spawn that allows to enjoy it slowly and not hecticly could be nice. Mongbats though, would not do it, and in the entire game the only place I can think of with some quietness is Swoops (that is with a reasonably high end mob).

It would be nice if there was some more in the game for those players seeking refuge from a hectiv, chaotic and messy day of work in their real lives..........

 

[wanderer1origin]

this would be fun and if they respawned faster if killed faster too challenge has left game, swoop spawn way to slow same with orc brute, syphinix , etc double it make they more agressive

Great, but ain't that a work around to a problem if I may note ?

I mean, why not fix the issue in the first place rather than force players to find work arounds all of the time ?

Some say use area peace and loot, some say pull it around the corner some say something else. Bottom line is, to deal with a respawn problem often people brings up patching up solutions.

Wouldn't instead be better a mainstream solution rather than a patched up one ?

Like for example, to have re-spawns depend on the number of players in a given area.
Only 1 player triggers a slow respawn, more players get a raising respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

Problem solved for good.

 

[hen]

It could well be although, I do not understand it.

Personally, I look into a game something to escape the frenzy and high stress of my real life.

When I get home from a day of work, problems to solve, issues and messing things I am tired, sometimes DEAD tired, and I sure do not want to get into a game that stresses me even further or gets me more nervous or hectic than what I already am......

I want to relax, get my mind elsewhere and forget about the mess and frenetic whirling life.

So, sometimes, a nicely quiet spawn that allows to enjoy it slowly and not hecticly could be nice. Mongbats though, would not do it, and in the entire game the only place I can think of with some quietness is Swoops (that is with a reasonably high end mob).

It would be nice if there was some more in the game for those players seeking refuge from a hectiv, chaotic and messy day of work in their real lives..........[/QUOTE]

lol. If you find office work stressful, take up inscription or some such. Popps must fit around the game, not the game around Popps.

 

[wanderer1origin]

for years when needed quiet time in game mined!! somthing about strip mining a mountain in fel !!! near 9 gm miners in game/shard

It could well be although, I do not understand it.

Personally, I look into a game something to escape the frenzy and high stress of my real life.

When I get home from a day of work, problems to solve, issues and messing things I am tired, sometimes DEAD tired, and I sure do not want to get into a game that stresses me even further or gets me more nervous or hectic than what I already am......

I want to relax, get my mind elsewhere and forget about the mess and frenetic whirling life.

So, sometimes, a nicely quiet spawn that allows to enjoy it slowly and not hecticly could be nice. Mongbats though, would not do it, and in the entire game the only place I can think of with some quietness is Swoops (that is with a reasonably high end mob).

It would be nice if there was some more in the game for those players seeking refuge from a hectiv, chaotic and messy day of work in their real lives..........[/QUOTE]

lol. If you find office work stressful, take up inscription or some such. Popps must fit around the game, not the game around Popps.

 

[Mijac_Chmon]

Is there anything you don't complain about, popps?

 

[Ailish]

I personally find most of the respawn rates FAR too slow. I am quite able to loot and fight at the same time and get irked by having to wait for new spawn.

The worst? Waiting for those gol darn Insane Dryads to respawn in the Blighted Grove! I can go to Tram and kill the three there, come back to Fel, and STILL have to wait a full minute to kill the next on! That is INSANE!

 

[Omnius]

pvm has been mindlessly tedious and endlessly dull since AoS.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Why are you there killing munsters? I`m pretty sure TO KILL MUNSTERS.

Why would you want to stand around pickin your a..hhhh nose for a few minutes between kills? Not me,I`m there for the money and the items....which translates into money.I think its perfect the way it is.Just enough time,anymore would be a PITA. Only spawn I can think of that is at all challenging to loot before the next spawn is Miasma.Everything else is gravy.

 

[Deb]

"Personally, I think that slower respawns would actually be a good thing (against farming, that is) since they would promote players to actually "change" spawns rather than sitting for hours always at the same spawn....."

And why should players change spawns? Because you do not like them there?
If you want something that is relaxing and stress free, buy a boat and go
fishing for awhile. Believe me, you will be so stress free you will be snoring
after an hour or so.
I think this is just another "Popps wants to stir up crap thread" personally.

 

[Heartseeker]

"Personally, I think that slower respawns would actually be a good thing (against farming, that is) since they would promote players to actually "change" spawns rather than sitting for hours always at the same spawn....."

And why should players change spawns? Because you do not like them there?
If you want something that is relaxing and stress free, buy a boat and go
fishing for awhile. Believe me, you will be so stress free you will be snoring
after an hour or so.
I think this is just another "Popps wants to stir up crap thread" personally.

QFT.

 

[Taylor]

PvM is kinda easy, as it is. :-/

 

[Viper09]

PvM is kinda easy, as it is. :-/

QFT

 

[Uvtha]

I remember when guilds would do dungeon runs, starting at the entrance and working their way downward, and things didn't insta-respawn so you had the feeling that you were making some sort of difference.

It would be cool if they re-did some of the old dungeons like shame and hythloth into huge peerless type affairs where you had to push your way down. Like a combo of a peerless and a champ spawn sort of thing, where you have to meet special requirements (like key items, or whatnot) as well as kill so many monsters.

 

[Pfloyd]

Come to Pac and do the central dungeon...you won't think its easy trying to clear this. This is just the northern entrance and i just took this pic with none of the paragons that are usually in the mix. There are also ancient liches and high end gargoyles passed this.

 

[popps]

Is there anything you don't complain about, popps?

Quite so.....

I love the safety of my UO home, I do remember when having as home meant a nightmare whether one was logged or not logged with all of the break ins, dangers with keys and all that.....

I enjoy the variety of the art in the world, I find treasure hunting and fishing relaxing and entertaining though I admit they have been neglected by design for too long now...

I like several of the new tameables of the past years except the Reptalon which I consider a lost chance.

It could have been a really nice pet but it was unfortunately made hardly usable.

There is lots in the game I like, and some I still like but would prefer to get "tuned up"...

 

[popps]

I`m there for the money and the items....

That is probably the difference in players.....

I am not in there neither for the money nor for the items. I am in the game only for some relax and evasion from the stresses of my real life........

It is just a game.

 

[popps]

I remember when guilds would do dungeon runs, starting at the entrance and working their way downward, and things didn't insta-respawn so you had the feeling that you were making some sort of difference.

It would be cool if they re-did some of the old dungeons like shame and hythloth into huge peerless type affairs where you had to push your way down. Like a combo of a peerless and a champ spawn sort of thing, where you have to meet special requirements (like key items, or whatnot) as well as kill so many monsters.

That would be a nice thing.

To give players a feeling of accomplishment by being able to clear a spawn and stop the respawn for at least sometimes would be a good thing for PvM...

We have a very large game. There is plenty spawns for the Developers to accomodate all players depending on their varied preferences.

Have hectic spawns for those who want it frenetic and have quiter and more relaxed spawns for those who want them more relaxed.

Why it has to be either/or and cannot be both ways ??

 

[Tina Small]

Great, but ain't that a work around to a problem if I may note ?

I mean, why not fix the issue in the first place rather than force players to find work arounds all of the time ?

Some say use area peace and loot, some say pull it around the corner some say something else. Bottom line is, to deal with a respawn problem often people brings up patching up solutions.

Wouldn't instead be better a mainstream solution rather than a patched up one ?

Like for example, to have re-spawns depend on the number of players in a given area.
Only 1 player triggers a slow respawn, more players get a raising respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

Problem solved for good.

Popps, the problem with the solution you've proposed is that it is only an acceptable solution to someone who wants a slower pace. Your solution is a huge turn-off for people like me that want more of a challenge.

I honestly don't see why you dislike the solution of learning to drag the thing you want to kill a short distance away where you will have a little more safety to loot it after it dies. Doing it this way actually requires using your brain and THINKING about how you're going to cut that monster out of the mob and focus on it alone.

You've complained recently that the game doesn't reward having skill. Well, in my opinion, learning to work with the rhythm of the spawn and learning how to effectively isolate only the number and type of monsters you can handle well and loot quickly takes some skill and thinking ability and I think is much more satisfying than having someone write a program to make sure you stay safe and relatively unchallenged the whole time you're playing.

I will never forget learning how to play a tamer and the friend who dragged me almost every day to Ilshenar to hunt paragon blood elementals. I died daily. One day, however, I was so disgusted with how poorly I was handling the situation that I made myself go alone.

I didn't die.

I was on such a high that day from that one simple incident, I couldn't believe it. Yes, it was a big challenge for me but I wouldn't have traded the experience for one where the spawn was controlled to make sure I didn't get in over my head.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

PvM is not challenge. It is a joke!

Monster behavior is predictable and static. Monsters spawn always in the same place. You slay one, a new one spawns and attacks you again. You can stand in the same spot all day long and kill monsters, and you wouldn't even have to touch the keyboard once. Monsters always behave in the same way. They carry always the same loot. This encourages item/gold farming and makes it easy for players to automate their characters. It also kills adventuring. No need to explore and discover, just use a recall rune to your favorite spawn location. Monsters should spawn in alternating areas, which would encourage adventuring and exploring. Monster behavior (AI) should be improved. If a number of monsters is slain, monsters should react accordingly (flee or move elsewhere), or call for reinforcements (stronger versions of their kin). Monsters should change their combat tactics, and probably cooperate to defeat the intruders. Monsters could become more powerful the more players they have killed.

Some examples:

If you successfully take out an orc camp, what happens next? Usually, the orcs will reappear after some time (respawn), just waiting to be slain by the next adventurer. With no impact on the gaming world. Such heroic deeds should always result in world changes that will challenge the player community anew. Instead of just respawning the same orcs again, they could call for reinforcements, and suddenly more and stronger orcs will join them to defend the orc camp. Or they will flee and move to a different place.​

If you kill the boss monster in a dungeon, it shouldn't just respawn. Maybe a revolt will happen inside the dungeon. The monsters could decide to take revenge, leave the dungeon and attack the nearest city. Or they could use new and more clever tactics to defeat the intruders. (Lots of suggestions for enhancing UO in such a way can be found here.)​

A group of adventurers entering a dungeon could unknowingly be infected with a plague. Upon entering populated areas, more players could be infected and the plague could spread like an epidemy. This would send the whole game community on a quest to search for a cure. (Occurances like these should be random and not reproducable, to avoid abuse.)​

(Source: Blog - Leaving a Trace in the World)

 

[Petra Fyde]

If I remember right they tried 'dynamic spawn' once. Works like this: Group goes into dungeon, starts killing things, spawn increases, solo warrior joins them, group leaves. Solo warrior is left with far more spawn than he can cope with and dies long before the game can recognise there are now less active players in the area.

Pardon me for bringing logic into this debate, but if I'm tired and want to relax with something undemanding I log in my crafter or take my 'crate thief' for a little walk, I don't take my warrior to hunt monsters.

Now if idiots and circumstances have wound me up like a coiled spring and I need to let out the aggression, then I take my warrior to bash monsters.

 

[Coppelia]

It's easy to be immortal with godlike powers and ask poor orcs not to respawn when you annihilate them, in the name of world coherence or just the beauty of the design.
But what now the orc camp is empty? Sosaria is free of orcs? Great, let's play card games now.

I understand the desire of the OP, ie reducing the spawn rate to feel you've accomplished something and now you must go on to the rest of your journey. That's how I hunt, because I don't like to stay doing the same thing over and over on the same spot. I hate farming. I travel through the entire dungeon killing things. However I can already do it, even if the spawn comes back fast behind me. But there are players who don't play like that and that's true UO requires farming for certain aspects. That's not my playstyle but forcing these players to play like I do would be very rude.
It's true that respawn on the same spot is a bliss for afkers, but UO would suffer even more in its dynamics of combats if an area would deplete too fast. In UO you need to kill a lot of mobs to get what you kill the mobs for. So you wouldn't appreciate to go through a whole dungeon of low level critters to kill 3 ice fiends and have to go somewhere else.

So yes, the world is less coherent like this, it's more a game. But it would be dramatically more boring to play this way. So unless you have a better suggestion than reducing the respawn rate, let's stay with the "poof we're back!" hunting spots.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

If I remember right they tried 'dynamic spawn' once. Works like this: Group goes into dungeon, starts killing things, spawn increases, solo warrior joins them, group leaves. Solo warrior is left with far more spawn than he can cope with and dies long before the game can recognise there are now less active players in the area.

Pardon me for bringing logic into this debate, but if I'm tired and want to relax with something undemanding I log in my crafter or take my 'crate thief' for a little walk, I don't take my warrior to hunt monsters.

Now if idiots and circumstances have wound me up like a coiled spring and I need to let out the aggression, then I take my warrior to bash monsters.

Look, there almost are more dungeons in UO than online players. And there are many easy dungeons suitable for crafters and crate thieves. There are 39 dungeons in UO (without counting the SA expansion and the plenty overground spawns). Less than 10 of them are frequented by players.
I seriously doubt that you cannot find a place where you can hunt all by yourself.

Besides, when the group leaves, maybe the solo warrior should leave as well if he hangs out in a place that's too dangerous for him alone. It is the same today when you go to the deep levels of Hythloth or Destard, Destard, Prism of Light, Bedlam and the like: Standard players can only succeed there in a group. If your group leaves, you're doomed.

 

[popps]

It's easy to be immortal with godlike powers and ask poor orcs not to respawn when you annihilate them, in the name of world coherence or just the beauty of the design.
But what now the orc camp is empty? Sosaria is free of orcs? Great, let's play card games now.

Actually this is a good point for debating the issue.

What if the dynamic spawn went a tad farther granting access to a hunting area only to those players whose overall rating in between skills and modifiers would not excess too much the value of the MOBs of that area ?

That is, while a uber powerfull template could certainly access the Champion or Peerless spawns or the Paragon area, they would not be let in to fight, say, an Orc Fort or an Imps spawn....

This way, all spawns would be a challenge because to some one would need to go barely equipped and still find valid foes in lizardmen and mongbats while in others one could go in uber equipped but against matching foes...

No more all 70s suit/8 maxed out skills template pounding poor water elementals a go go.....

I understand the desire of the OP, ie reducing the spawn rate to feel you've accomplished something and now you must go on to the rest of your journey. That's how I hunt, because I don't like to stay doing the same thing over and over on the same spot. I hate farming. I travel through the entire dungeon killing things.

If the previous could be done, any and all spawns could become a challenge, though at different template levels, and could allow for the clearing of the spawn, perhaps with a bonus prize at the end of it ?

Like having a prize for clearing out the Orc Fort with a lower template.

In UO you need to kill a lot of mobs to get what you kill the mobs for. So you wouldn't appreciate to go through a whole dungeon of low level critters to kill 3 ice fiends and have to go somewhere else.

That is because the game has too much focused on items, IMHO. Therefore, players want to maximize their activity towards getting those items and more kills mean more chances of a good drop.

It is a set up that promotes farming and this I think is not good.

So unless you have a better suggestion than reducing the respawn rate, let's stay with the "poof we're back!" hunting spots.

How about the first one I mentioned ? Have spawn areas limited to comparable value templates so to avoid over powered players to annihilate too easily the minor areas ?

 

[Petra Fyde]

You misunderstand me. I'm not speaking from a personal point of view, I have no problem with spawn as it is now, I go where I can hunt comfortably within my competence as a player and leave harder stuff to better players. Unlike some, I don't expect the whole game tailored to my playing ability.

I'm just saying, they tried dynamic spawn, it didn't work as expected, they took it out again. Historical fact, no opinions, no commentary on it, just fact.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

That is probably the difference in players.....

I am not in there neither for the money nor for the items. I am in the game only for some relax and evasion from the stresses of my real life........

It is just a game.

FYI gold IS part of the economy of UO.

If your not there for the money or items,maybe they should put some lootless monsters ingame for those who just want "evasion from the stresses of my real life"

You of ALL peaple need to learn "It is just a game"

So yes,that IS the difference in players. Maybe its relaxing to me to farm up some gold for a couple hours. Maybe I want to maximize my profits so I can afford the finer things in UO. Since I don`t support Gold for Cash..... Killing monsters for gold seems to be a necessity unless ya want to be a virtual bum.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I think the rate is fine. Looting is not a right. Its an action. As you loot, for your game greed (role play), you run the risk of getting killed.


We forget that this game is not candy. THough I think it has been sweetened down to much.

You walk into battle and that is what happens. Kill, loot, defend.

I actually think spawns should adjust to player numbers an str of monsters should change.

Whats good for us should be good for spawn.

More of us show up, More of them should show up.


JMO

 

[Thangorodrim]

Personally, I look into a game something to escape the frenzy and high stress of my real life.

Poops, I believe that you will encounter consternation and stress in everything. It is not due to your environment, but your thinking.

Look into cognitive therapy.

 

[Tina Small]

Actually this is a good point for debating the issue.

What if the dynamic spawn went a tad farther granting access to a hunting area only to those players whose overall rating in between skills and modifiers would not excess too much the value of the MOBs of that area ?

That is, while a uber powerfull template could certainly access the Champion or Peerless spawns or the Paragon area, they would not be let in to fight, say, an Orc Fort or an Imps spawn....

This way, all spawns would be a challenge because to some one would need to go barely equipped and still find valid foes in lizardmen and mongbats while in others one could go in uber equipped but against matching foes...

No more all 70s suit/8 maxed out skills template pounding poor water elementals a go go.....







If the previous could be done, any and all spawns could become a challenge, though at different template levels, and could allow for the clearing of the spawn, perhaps with a bonus prize at the end of it ?

Like having a prize for clearing out the Orc Fort with a lower template.




That is because the game has too much focused on items, IMHO. Therefore, players want to maximize their activity towards getting those items and more kills mean more chances of a good drop.

It is a set up that promotes farming and this I think is not good.




How about the first one I mentioned ? Have spawn areas limited to comparable value templates so to avoid over powered players to annihilate too easily the minor areas ?

Popps, for someone who consistantly and almost constantly complains about the ever-widening gap between players who have something (skills, gear, whatever) and those who do not, I am absolutely in shock that you would suggest something that would push that idea to its ultimate limit: The strong can make the circuit of all the dungeons in the game and clear the spawn so the weak have NOTHING to do all day.

Do you not understand that your suggestion to be able to completely clear the spawn is the perfect tool to grief other players, especially the weak?

I'm astounded you don't see that. Absolutely astounded.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

The strong can make the circuit of all the dungeons in the game and clear the spawn so the weak have NOTHING to do all day.

Do you not understand that your suggestion to be able to completely clear the spawn is the perfect tool to grief other players, especially the weak?

While I understand your concern: How many weak players do you see in UO? And how many players with uber gear do you see hanging out at banks or queuing for Melisande?

Besides, better monster AI does not have to mean that all dungeons are closed for the beginners. They just may not be able to survive in Bedlam or Hythloth anymore, before they have trained their skills in dungeons like Despise.

I'm all for a new challenge in PvM, because today, monster behavior is stupid, predictable and boring.

 

[Surgeries]

I think it's time Stratics started a separate forum for all of Popps' posts... oh wait, there is! SnR!

*Giggles*

*Guffaws*

*Laughs Really Hard*

 

[Surgeries]

The spawn rate is fine.

I am thinking it is the char and/or player combo that might be the challenge here.

I fight immediately respawning creatures (like Succubi, for example). Yes...it is challenging. I like it that way. I die sometimes. I like it that way.

Maybe they will make a new char mod token that can allow a person looting immunity for 10 seconds after a MOB dies...like for $20.00...

Or make an anti-death token...

Or best of all...as soon as the Monster dies, Popps reaches over, whacks the "Easy" Button by his keyboard! All MOBs stop spawning, and/or fighting, until Popps says he is ready for them, and not one second before...

Yeah...we'll go with that one....

 

[popps]

Popps, for someone who consistantly and almost constantly complains about the ever-widening gap between players who have something (skills, gear, whatever) and those who do not, I am absolutely in shock that you would suggest something that would push that idea to its ultimate limit: The strong can make the circuit of all the dungeons in the game and clear the spawn so the weak have NOTHING to do all day.

Do you not understand that your suggestion to be able to completely clear the spawn is the perfect tool to grief other players, especially the weak?

I'm astounded you don't see that. Absolutely astounded.

Perhaps I explained myself wrong because my suggestion was to achieve the opposite.

A uber fitted player would NOT be allowed into, say, a lower rated Orc Fort or Lizardmen spawn....

Only low rated templates (modifiers and skills) would be allowed into such a lower rated spawn.

So, in order to enter that spawn, the uber fitted should drop all their uber gear and skills and come down to the same level of, for example, newer players doing those spawns.

I will make an example.

Let us assume that the Orc Fort is rated a 20 level spawn area max.

We then have 2 players, a player A with all skills in the 50ies and low modifiers or average items with a global rating of, say, level 18.

Then we have a player B with all skills maxed out and high modifiers across the board and high resistances. The player has a level of, say 90.

If players A and B try to enter the Orc Fort spawn area, since player A is a level 18 which is below the max allowed of the area of 20 this player will be granted access.

Player B, instead, having a much higher rating of 90 would NOT be allowed access to the Orc Fort and will NOT be able to work that spawn with the current skills and modifiers.

So, this will actually leave some spawns exclusive of players with lower modifiers and at a lower level of skills.

I hope it is clearer now.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I hope it is clearer now.

Oh yeah, the stupidity of that suggestion is even more apparant now than it was before. Thanks for making it even easier to see how dumb it is.