Imbuing Weights: More information

[Ailish]

A list of property "weights" can be found here:

http://www.uoherald.com/guide/guide.php?guideId=282

An explanation of the system by one of the developers from the internal forums:

The current setup is each item has a set capacity for holding the energy used for imbuing magical properties.

Different properties will require different amounts of energy to imbue. ie the property weights

These weights are the factor by which the intensity of that property affects the items ability to store more imbued energy.

A weight of 1.4 means that for every 1% of intensity added, it takes 1.4 of the items energy storage capacity.
so at 100% intensity that property would take 140 storage.
using hit fireball as an example.. 50% hit fireball is at 100% intensity for that property. The weight is 1.4 so thats 1.4 * 100% = 140

With the exception of jewelry, items crafted with exceptional quality get a small bonus to that total energy storage capacity.

My attempt at putting that in layman's terms *DISCLAIMER, I think my math may be wrong!*

Ok, so if you imbue a weapon with 50% Hit Magic Arrow, the system "reads" that you have imbued the item with 55% Hit Magic Arrow (I think I figured it right!) So, while it wont tell you that you have exceeded the maximum number of properties (5), it will tell you the item is "Unstable" because it reads it as you exceeding the 500% limit.

Wilki adds in another thread here:

I'll try to explain it better.

Some properties "cost" more to imbue than others, in terms of reaching the total cap (either the 300% of imbued weight per item, or the 450/500 total weight for the item in general, which includes all properties, imbued or not).

For example, Damage Increase has the default weight of 1.0, which means that 100% counts as 100% against the cap. SSI, however, has a weight of 1.3, which means that 100% SSI would use up 130% towards the cap.

As far as individual properties go, as long as you don't exceed one of the total intensity caps for the item, then you can imbue any property up to 150%, regardless of weight.

So, that means you can have 75% Damage Increase (150% intensity for DI), and that would count at 150% intensity towards the cap.

For SSI, 150% intensity is 45 SSI, but since it has a weight multiplier of 1.3, it'd count as 1.3 * 150 = 195% against the cap.

From WarUltima:

From what I understand (and assumption), Hit Fireball has a 1.4 property weight. This means at 50 Hit Fireball it will be weighted as 140 total intensity, leaving 360 for the rest of the mods. So take the composite bow I enhanced a few days ago:
1. 40 Damage Inc (80% weighted @ 80%) 420% left
2. Balanced (100% intensity weighted 100%) 320% left
3. 40 Hit Fireball (80% weighted 112%) 208% left
4. 40 Velocity (80% weighted 104%) 104% left.
5. 30 SSI.

 

[Harlequin]

Thanks for the link! I was looking for that info

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi Ailish,

thanks for the link.
Now I can start to think how to make the super duper uber weapon.



Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[The Scandinavian]

Am I the only one that have some difficulties to read the last column?



Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Harlequin]

No problems here. But the table is a bit larger than the lighter background in the centre.

If the digit after the decimal point is partially hidden, try configuring your browser to use a smaller text size. Shortcut is ctrl + scrollwheel up

 

[The Scandinavian]

Thank you.That did the trick.

Edit:Aha,SSI was only 1.1.Thought it was 1.3.


Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[RichDC]

Does this work in reverse??

What i mean is, when it comes to imbuing it take more than 100% to imbue 50% Fireball.

So, when unravelling 50%fireball does it count as 140% towards the required % for relic fragments?? Or does it just count as 100%??

 

[The Scandinavian]

No it doesnt.

All information so far says that it doent matter what property you unravel.
The total intensity decides what reagent you will get,no weight involved.

But they have changed things before.


Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Mijac_Chmon]

So it goes like this?

1) Take the Imbued property and check the intensity against the Property Range ie Fireball can go from 0-50% so Imbuing Fireball 25% is actually 50% of the Property Range

2) Multiple this Property Range % by the "weight" of the Property. ie 25% Hit Fireball = 50% Property Range x 1.4 = 70%

3) This 70% comes off the 500% total that you can have on your items. Note also that Imbuing total is 300% and it is checked against both.

Is that right?

 

[Harlequin]

So it goes like this?

1) Take the Imbued property and check the intensity against the Property Range ie Fireball can go from 0-50% so Imbuing Fireball 25% is actually 50% of the Property Range

2) Multiple this Property Range % by the "weight" of the Property. ie 25% Hit Fireball = 50% Property Range x 1.4 = 70%

3) This 70% comes off the 500% total that you can have on your items. Note also that Imbuing total is 300% and it is checked against both.

Is that right?

Yup, that's how I understand it as well.

 

[Petra Fyde]

ok..............I rate my chances of being able to work out what the hell I'm doing when I try to imbue something for real to be around 1%.

I guess I'll be imbuing on a 'I will if the menu will let me' basis

maybe some kind soul will create a calculator (when all the figures stop changing) where you can put in what an item has got and what you want it to have and get a 'no chance' or 'go for it' response

 

[RichDC]

No it doesnt.

All information so far says that it doent matter what property you unravel.
The total intensity decides what reagent you will get,no weight involved.

But they have changed things before.


Regards
The Scandinavian

That just seems silly to me, if its going to penalise us on imbuing it should reward us on unravelling. Only makes sense...the door swings both ways.

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi Petra,

with all the work you have done for the community its time to give you some back.

I will personally invite you to my forge and try to explain everything to you.You are still playing Europa I assume?

I just need to play with it myself first.


I started to download classic client yesterday but it was not finished before I hit the pillow.


Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Petra Fyde]

yup, still playing Europa, and Siege. When I can find the time! and Retribution atm, but most of my play seems to be research for Stratics pages lately!

I doubt I'll ever understand the math involved, I'll probably do the same as I do with enhancing - hit it and hope - Three things I really want. My tamer wears 2 luck jewels with chiv. The ring is chiv +14, luck 87 fc 1 energy resist 12. I'd like to take the luck to 100, maybe add fcr 2. The bracelet is chiv +10, luck 100, fc1 lmc 2 di 19. I'd like to add to the chiv on that. I know I can't put fcr on it. My warrior would dearly love an undead slayer radiant scimitar - I've burned up 10 bronze hammers at various times trying to make it for her. I'd like to add that property to one of her existing weapons. I can't look what the properties of those are right now. Terry'd be mega cross if the bally he's fighting ate him because I logged into the account

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi,

you can have up to 150% intensity so when they have settled the weight for each property maybe you can even boost the luck above 100 and get FCR.Otherwise, what you want with the ring is doable.

Currently its not possible to remove any property but that might be changed because irs much asked for.

About the bracelet.That also should be doable,even if I dont calculate all the weights.But there are a few properties with low intensity that should make up for that to work.

Arent you using the trinket that gives undead?

If you had been a fencer I would have a bunch of weapons for you.



Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Silverbird]

*takes out his pocket calc*
*does some fast typing*
Well ... under current imbuing implementation ... you could increase the luck on your ring to 100 or add fcr1 to the ring.
And .... under current imbuing implementation ... you could increase the chiv to 15 on your bracelet.
At least you could do, if you still are able to improve an already excisting mod on an item.

Edith: Oh ... another reply to comment.
@The Skandinavian: The problem with ring and bracelets are, that the overall intensity is limited to 450% (due to beeing looted rings). With fc having a high weighting (1.4 so fc1 as maximum of fc already counts for 140%, which leaves 'only' 310% for the rest of the mods.) And with ... after modification ... luck and chiv also at 100% that doesnt leaves much room for something else.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Why couldn't it have just been simple;

350% max imbued up to a max of 500% total?

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hua,

didnt think of the 450% limit for rings.Im more in the banging bussiness.

And dont take the weight list to seriuos...its up for changes still Im sure.

We dont want to confuse Petra more ,do we?

Its said that its possible to increase an intensity of existing property, you can also decrease it,but not remove it.Currently that is.


Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Silverbird]

And dont take the weight list to seriuos...its up for changes still Im sure.

Thats why I included 'under current implementation'. And not only the weights are under discussion.

We dont want to confuse Petra more ,do we?

Too late. I believe, I ve met her once ingame and I suppose, she was somewhat confused after.

 

[Connor_Graham]

ok..............I rate my chances of being able to work out what the hell I'm doing when I try to imbue something for real to be around 1%.

I guess I'll be imbuing on a 'I will if the menu will let me' basis

maybe some kind soul will create a calculator (when all the figures stop changing) where you can put in what an item has got and what you want it to have and get a 'no chance' or 'go for it' response

I second this. All of it. UO math gives me a headache. Playing a game shouldn't be like high school calculus all over again....

*waits patiently for Noxin or someone else to create the calculator*

 

[deraiky]

About the "weights" list :

1. Splintering Blade is there a 2nd time as "Hit Splintering Blade" (whatever that is..)
2. Lower Defense and lower Attack are there a 2nd time as "Hit lower Defense/Attack"
3. There are a lot of things i have never seen in uo just like the splintering blade, creature resist, damage convert, hit random spell, refreshment (stamina reg ?)

Would be nice to get some clarification on this.

2nd i think this new system is WAY i mean WAAAAAAAAY too complicated. But thats my opinion.

 

[WarUltima]

About the "weights" list :

1. Splintering Blade is there a 2nd time as "Hit Splintering Blade" (whatever that is..)
2. Lower Defense and lower Attack are there a 2nd time as "Hit lower Defense/Attack"
3. There are a lot of things i have never seen in uo just like the splintering blade, creature resist, damage convert, hit random spell, refreshment (stamina reg ?)

Would be nice to get some clarification on this.

2nd i think this new system is WAY i mean WAAAAAAAAY too complicated. But thats my opinion.

1.I am not sure about splintering blade but Bruce commented in closed forum and said "If it makes live beta, it will be very interesting". Could be something like hit disarm

2. Yes no clue why they list it twice, but you may imbue a mod up to 150% intensity tho.

3.
A.Creature resist is probably creature protection x% on talismans.
B. Damage convert is basically a change in damage distribution, 100% poison weapon is basically a damage convert rolled poison at 100% intensity.
C. Hit random spell, just like what it suggested (random hits for MA/Harm/Fireball/Lighting probably not gonna make it to live.
D. Not sure what's refreshment.

Bruce_EA only explained what Damage Convert is, and said if Hit Splintering Blade made to live, it will be very "interesting".

Sorry cannot answer you more.

 

[InspectorGadget]

So damage convert = chaos damage

 

[deraiky]

No, as i understood it you can choose between 100% poison or 100% fire or 100% energy etc etc etc..

 

[Silverbird]

Damage convert is more like converting 100% phys damage into something other. (Probably the property from craftable quivers) or what the spell consecrate weapon does. (Ignoring that conc weap not only converts the damage but instead converts it to the most efficient damge on a target.)

 

[Old Man of UO]

ok..............I rate my chances of being able to work out what the hell I'm doing when I try to imbue something for real to be around 1%...

But using Wilki's weighting system, imbuing has an understanding weight of 1.4 times your 1%, with an average UO User knowledge of 3%, minus the average persons ability to understand ANY of Wilki's advanced systems, and divide that by Connor's knowledge of Calculus... Umm, I think that equates to a "Snowball's Chance in Hell" that most of us will be able to figure out what and how much we can imbue without a calculator.

Basically, what this does is give Wilki the ability to reduce the maximum total intensity of an item, when you include any property that he thinks will be overpowering (like SSI).

Yeah... someone please put this into a calculator and put it on Stratics. I can make an Excel spreadsheet of this, but not quite as simple.

 

[Harlequin]

and divide that by Connor's knowledge of Calculus...

div/0! error

No offense to Connor But i just couldn't resist that...

 

[Old Man of UO]

div/0! error

No offense to Connor But i just couldn't resist that...

LOL...

WAIT... dividing by zero = infinity!

 

[Ailish]

Basically, what this does is give Wilki the ability to reduce the maximum total intensity of an item, when you include any property that he thinks will be overpowering (like SSI).

1 - I don't think Wilki coded the weights, I think Bruce did.
2 - They based the weights on input from the beta testers. They asked us to rate all the properties. At the time, we did not know the reason

 

[Old Man of UO]

1 - I don't think Wilki coded the weights, I think Bruce did.
2 - They based the weights on input from the beta testers. They asked us to rate all the properties. At the time, we did not know the reason

I think it is a good way to balance properties, just makes it more difficult for the average user to understand.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I saw post by Chrissay about using common terms, so looking at the chart of weights here are my assumptions:
Best Weapon Skill = Use Best Weapon Skill
Weapon Damage Increase = Damage Increase
Mana Replenish = Mana Regeneration
Refreshment = Stamina Regeneration
Regeneration = Hit Point Regeneration

This is not meant to be a sucker punch at her and her team. I just don't know how to get this to her specifically. I am sure these terms have raised eyebrows for others too.

Questions on the properties listed;
What is the difference between Hit Lower Attack and Lower Attack?
What is the difference between Hit Lower Defence and Lower Defence?
Why is Self Repair listed? I thought we could not imbue Self Repair on an item.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Maplestone]

Like skillnames on the test center, I suspect are probably some inconsistencies between how properties are referred to in the code vs their public names we see on items.

( not sure why self-repair snuck in there though, but it's not in the imbuing menus so we can ignore it for now )

 

[Barry Gibb]

Is Hit Slayer the weapon slayer property or the talisman killer property (I see Creature Resist, which might be the talisman protection property).

Will there be any weight distinction to a specific slayer property on a weapon versus its super slayer? For example will the weighting be different if I want an Earth Elemental Slayer or an Elemental Slayer?

This is more of a formatting question/suggestion for EA folks: Is there any way to indicate, on the chart, which properties apply to the item type? Like an * notation for available on weapons, and you list the notations below the chart.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Maplestone]

Will there be any weight distinction to a specific slayer property on a weapon versus its super slayer? For example will the weighting be different if I want an Earth Elemental Slayer or an Elemental Slayer?

To balance specialized slayers vs super-slayers, what they are doing is increasing the damage output of specialized slayers to 300%.

So a dragon slayer weapon will be more effective against dragons than a reptile slayer.

 

[Barry Gibb]

Will there be any weight distinction to a specific slayer property on a weapon versus its super slayer? For example will the weighting be different if I want an Earth Elemental Slayer or an Elemental Slayer?

To balance specialized slayers vs super-slayers, what they are doing is increasing the damage output of specialized slayers to 300%.

So a dragon slayer weapon will be more effective against dragons than a reptile slayer.

Did they discuss how this would play into the current damage increase caps?

Stayin Alive,

BG