Urgent tweeks needed for Tok event

[CatLord]

- over 70 characters vanishing from the tokuno hunting grounds since the event began...
- at least 18 verified 72h bans (I got their icq messages blasting about it)...
- 2 perma bans.

The contest proceeds... number to beat 32.

"Many of the players will script and macro ToT...

This challenge is made of three parts.

1- find them and send report with name/guild.
2- call gm and get them banned.
3- wait until the 18th August so they dont show up at uo.com.
(we'll check their previous existance... and do remember that even the shadows can be watched...)


Rewards:

Player banning the most #... Stat Scroll +25 and 120 Chivalry PS.
Second player... 3 Major ToT Artefact.
Third... 1 Major ToT Artefact.


Safe Hunting!"

http://www.uoforums.com/general-discussion-gri/61431-tot-shadow-event.html#post432631

 

[UOKaiser]

- over 70 characters vanishing from the tokuno hunting grounds since the event began...
- at least 18 verified 72h bans (I got their icq messages blasting about it)...
- 2 perma bans.

The contest proceeds... number to beat 32.

"Many of the players will script and macro ToT...

This challenge is made of three parts.

1- find them and send report with name/guild.
2- call gm and get them banned.
3- wait until the 18th August so they dont show up at uo.com.
(we'll check their previous existance... and do remember that even the shadows can be watched...)


Rewards:

Player banning the most #... Stat Scroll +25 and 120 Chivalry PS.
Second player... 3 Major ToT Artefact.
Third... 1 Major ToT Artefact.


Safe Hunting!"

http://www.uoforums.com/general-discussion-gri/61431-tot-shadow-event.html#post432631

You got me there. I wouldn't be able to complete let alone start it.No good. Can't do that challenge, In order to accomplish that I have to grief at least 3 times more many players. And if I bother just 1 innocent player minding there business I'll be no better than the worst offenders of UO.

 

[ACB1961]

You would not believe how low the drop rate is for invisible tamers.

I get 10 artis or 20 artis to one on any other char than I do an invisible tamer. I just stopped doing it at all, even though I was always monitoring it. I'm not about to get pets with all 100s killed or lost, and I was concerned that the blackrock might get me an infected pet.

The first day it was working great, but now its a terrible drop rate. I think they must have changed it.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

You would not believe how low the drop rate is for invisible tamers.

I get 10 artis or 20 artis to one on any other char than I do an invisible tamer. I just stopped doing it at all, even though I was always monitoring it. I'm not about to get pets with all 100s killed or lost, and I was concerned that the blackrock might get me an infected pet.

The first day it was working great, but now its a terrible drop rate. I think they must have changed it.

They may have changed it, can not comment on that as I am fairly sure the hidden system was in place before the start of the event. You can not blackrock infect anything any more (unless they turned it back on?) and of course yes you get more arties with a non-hidden char than you do with a hidden one.

Edit: Well that's what I get for responding, got my tamer killed -.-

 

[jack flash uk]

So all hidden players that don't take the time to speak to you are cheating?

Like it or not stealth characters exist and they are no obligation to speak to you just because you are on the same screen.

But don't assume every stealth tamer is unattended. I have met some that tried to lure on me thinking I wasn't there, and they left with a mark on their record for doing so. The irony is that not a single one that did so every took the time to speak as well.

What about unattended dexers? Your solution would have to apply to them as well, which would mean deactivating the autodefend function for dexers. But the problem is your solution requiring to click on each mob would make the game unplayable for average person in high spawn areas.
What about mages then? Should they be exempt and be allowed to toss EVs and not click on each mob that the EVs attack?

Your solution of requiring to click each mob would have to be applied to all templates and that would make it impossible for average person to handle grouped spawns.

No ASh, i know what a stealther does, my main char is an idoc stealther

this char is afk, and his pet is farming for him/her

i know the difference

plus, NOBODY sure plays this game 24hrs straight, not in the same area of the same dungeon

 

[Rimeny]

sadly i logged in this morning and the lonely pup has been there ALL NIGHT FARMING also another pup is in the next area doing the same thing, pet names THECU and NONAME shocking, but i agree the orc spawn
ITS ALL WRONG

lets add active targetting or you get nothing as others have said

how can it be acceptable that a pet or player can be left in a safe area to farm with no danger of being killed

HOW ABOUT RANDON SPAWN OR BALRONS or sometihng, so you have to work ifor t???

Those two Cu's have been in the Tok Mines since the event started. I just kill their spawn as they are unattended, get a drop or two then leave

 

[jack flash uk]

lol me too, but sadly they stay farming when we all go to bed etc, shocking that nothing has been done

i keep reporting and am asked for details of the player, lol pathetic, as i cannot target them cos they appear/disappear in a flash

just do something, ANYTHING about it

 

[jack flash uk]

Stealth Tamer is a template. Go whine somewhere else, seriously. I play my stealth tamer a lot in this event and am sick of people like you thinking because I am hidden I am AFK. I have stopped responding to people saying "are you there???" and hoping they page on me so I can talk to the GM.

The much bigger problem is the 2-day old melee characters sitting there with a slayer weapon at the orc spawn. I've found they are AFK far far more than tamers.

two things here, first i agree with the orc comment this is also a problem

however, i am not attacking you if you run your template in a reasonable way, if you set it up and go away for 24hrs and come back to unload goodies then YES, I AM ATTACKING YOU. if you are not, and i am SURE you are not then no, you have nothin to fear

but do you hide and do nothing, or do you command your pet to kill EVERY monster that spawns, ie do YOU earn the right, or does you pet so everything while you hide away?

there needs to be player interaction here imo. on whatever template

surely you can understand that sitting at a low level spwan with NO CHANCE OF DYING and farming for 24 without moving is serious BS, you are not there all the time

this needs to change

if you are NOT doing this, then you have nothing to fear

 

[Sassassin]

Hmm I just watched a sampire AFKing around orcs and on man they kill much much faster AFK than GDs unattended.

I dont know I watched unattended GD to do spawns GDs seem to wonder and do nothing for a little bit after killing something if multiple mods are attacking it at the sametime. While the afk dexer instantly switched targets and hacked away with his self repair weapon.

What I dont understand is why all the focus on stealth tamer (attended or not) while other classes can do the samething much more effectively.

How about scripting mages casting 2xEV + Nature's Fury and instant rehide?

AFK archers is even more effective than GD and Sampire. And the dexers dont even have to rely on hiding to survive. They dont have to feed their pets, they just stood there and take it like a man.

Why all the focus on tamers?

 

[Old Man of UO]

1. please reinstate the rule in ToTII where you cannot hide and leave a guarding pet to kill easy spawn, with no chance of dying
2. make all players order pets to kill spawn, or manually target spawn and not just sit at easy spawn with slayer weapons and leave ALL day/night


during ToT2 i witnessed chars killing easy spawn for DAYS at a time
it is happeneing with pets and is a real shame




please think about adding these rules urgently to stop AFK FARMERS

good people of stratics please post comments

Well, you aren't being quite fair are you.

What about the AFK mages running a macro that casts EV and then invis, casts another EV and invis, hour after hour? What about the swordsman with max resist armor killing skeletons hour after hour while AFK? Both of these can easily be found on every shard that I've played recently. The mage doesn't command the EV's to "all kill" so is that okay they should get arties while hidden? The swordsman isn't hidden but still collecting arties AFK... you aren't saying that is okay because the character isn't hidden?

It's not just tamers that are AFK, but all sorts. The problem is the AFK farming, not tamers who are hidden. Your suggested solutions won't fix the problem.

 

[Fink]

You would not believe how low the drop rate is for invisible tamers.

I get 10 artis or 20 artis to one on any other char than I do an invisible tamer. I just stopped doing it at all, even though I was always monitoring it. I'm not about to get pets with all 100s killed or lost, and I was concerned that the blackrock might get me an infected pet.

The first day it was working great, but now its a terrible drop rate. I think they must have changed it.

I don't think anything's been changed (that would probably require a publish or at least a patch? And they'd be telling us they did so, if only to appease people like the OP) in fact I'm finding the reverse. I tend to get more drops while hidden on my stealth shepherd than I do on my luck tamer. Also I've noticed drops seem to come on my tamer just as I've cast an invis to lose aggro. Coincidence, surely.. but odd.

 

[Cyrah]

Tot3 is a cheater's paradise.

Since we have very few brand new devs who know nothing about UO I think it was intended.

Sad huh. I wish everyone who does not cheat a mempo or whatever item you want.

I am very concerned about SA, they already ruined the potentially great KR.


Oh yea, um we have a bazillion stealth tamers and you probably are seeing those, lol! So come on stealth cheaters speak up and defend!

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm a mage (just a plain old mage still learning spell-weaving, though I'm starting to think that necromancy's the way to go... there's some necros out there that I downright admire)... sometimes hiding while an EV takes the aggro is a necessity for me.

But believe me, there's no AFKing going on where I've been hunting.

Solutions for one problem tend to cause problems for others. Broad-stroke reactions are what cause people across the board to feel nerfed.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

I understand that you appear to be hypocritical in nature to protest against those that break the rules (even the ones you make up as you go) and then proceed to break them yourself. You are no better than the scripters out there in that regard. So 'looks like a duck' in deed.

But go ahead and brag some more how you openly break the rules and go without punishment, all I am hearing is a bunch of quacking.

Hypocritical? now you're just making stuff up. I never said anything about defending the TOS. I just said I don't like scripters. I'm not bragging, so I have no idea where you're getting that from. I guess it's your last desperate attempt at trying to sufficate me in your nonsense. If I think you're a scripter because

1) you're a completely unresponsive player hunting
2) you're frequently recalling in/out of a location
3) you hunt for hours on end

I'm going to do my best to get rid of you

People who have no dignity pride themselves so and act just as inferior as scripters by lowering themselves to their standards of humility and shame by acting like them. How is that amusing to anyone at all?

 

[Foolio the Bard]

two things here, first i agree with the orc comment this is also a problem

however, i am not attacking you if you run your template in a reasonable way, if you set it up and go away for 24hrs and come back to unload goodies then YES, I AM ATTACKING YOU. if you are not, and i am SURE you are not then no, you have nothin to fear

but do you hide and do nothing, or do you command your pet to kill EVERY monster that spawns, ie do YOU earn the right, or does you pet so everything while you hide away?

there needs to be player interaction here imo. on whatever template

surely you can understand that sitting at a low level spwan with NO CHANCE OF DYING and farming for 24 without moving is serious BS, you are not there all the time

this needs to change

if you are NOT doing this, then you have nothing to fear

You are confusing the issue. Being unattended and doing any action is Illegal.
Merely being hidden and letting your guarding pet kill the spawn or standing in one spot while you smash orcs to oblivion is not illegal if you are attended.

There is NOTHING that says "player interaction" is required. Only that you are there at the keyboard/mouse/screen.

You are doing alot of assuming about the things you see without actual proof.
The only way you would know if someone is there for 24 hours is if YOU were also there for 24 hours.

 

[Foolio the Bard]

1) you're a completely unresponsive player hunting
2) you're frequently recalling in/out of a location
3) you hunt for hours on end

I'm going to do my best to get rid of you

I often fall under #1 and #3. As I said earlier, I don't respond to the player-cops. I want them to page on me so I can talk to the GM.

I find great joy in messing with the player-cops. They are generally over-zealous hacks that think it is their job to patrol the dungeons like a hall monitor. They are likely the type that used to get beat up quite often in High School.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

i am a tamer and i think the only reason to be hidden and have a guarded pet is to allow yourself to be somewhere else...................................................
....

*Raises Eyebrow* Really? Hum .... What Ever.

When I look, there is every bit as many players, what ever their Template, standing there auto defending and killing everything.

So IF your a tamer and IF your there looking around, your saying your Shard is SO UNIQUE that NO Non Tamer is standing on a Spawn Spot Auto Defending and Mass Murdering the Spawn, AFK, Unattended (* LMAO *) collecting a 100 Drops per minute.

Because if the above (exaggeration) is not true, then YOU A TAMER, has for some reason decided that the practice is ONLY BAD WHEN A TAMER DOES IT.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I got on my uo hubbys tamer went to the orcs hid got off the dog it attacked every orc it saw. I guess I am broke. but from 10 pm eastern to 11 pm eastern I only received 3 arties. then i got off his tamer went back on a macer character for another couple hours, received only 2 arties. got off that character got on my archer for just one hour got 1 artie. on each character I didnt have to do nothing but just just sit here and twittle my thumbs. No vetting or healing at all. this last hour I got on my tamer went and killed never mind im not gonna tell ya, but I got 4 arties while I was there.
So it seems no one is endanger of being killed my orcs if their characters are built up and have decent suits on.

I just had to see what all this crap was about, so I took my Greater Dragon and myself to the Room, in Fan Dancer's DoJo, with the 5 to 6 Ore Haulers(?) the Blue things. My Dragon was Guarding and I could 1 Hit kill the things on Auto Defense anyway. Being in the center of the room had a max distance of 7 tiles in any direction.

On the other computer 3 feet to the right, I stripped off Windows 7 32 bit and replaced it with Windows 7 64 bit, replaced all the applications I had installed on the 32 bit, did all updates, did a full Virus Scan etc. SIX HOURS LATER and NOT A SINGLE DROP, NOT A SINGLE DROP.

There is one heck of a LOT of exaggeration going on in these threads, and / or there is a LOT of things assumed to be known that are not known by every one.

 

[Jhym]

I truly, absolutely don't care.

If the devs/support want to do something about it, they will; if they are in Felucca, I can do something like reveal or detect hidden.

Otherwise, guess what, I can go elsewhere and do something other than farming. Which is what everyone is doing, so get over it.

I found several quiet places with nary a person, I don't accept this "evil people farming afk that I should be able to" bull.

 

[jack flash uk]

You are confusing the issue. Being unattended and doing any action is Illegal.
Merely being hidden and letting your guarding pet kill the spawn or standing in one spot while you smash orcs to oblivion is not illegal if you are attended.

There is NOTHING that says "player interaction" is required. Only that you are there at the keyboard/mouse/screen.

You are doing alot of assuming about the things you see without actual proof.
The only way you would know if someone is there for 24 hours is if YOU were also there for 24 hours.

good points of course, i am assuming he/she is there 24hrs, but i think i am right, i have just finished in the mines for the night, Kena*** In**** has just turned up go take alook see what YOU think.

this has turned into an interesting debate, with many templates seen to be, erm, suspect, but yes the template is not the problem the PLAYER is

what needs to be done about it?

nice is the Devs would comment, sadly THECU with be farming all night(guessing)

if anybody feels ok with this, does not have a problem with the fact this player runs the macro THROUGH THE NIGHT while asleep (guessing) then so be it, its up to you

it does not sit well with me, if they are there all the time great, if someone wants to sit on the rock and kill the orc spawn great, just as long as they are there, of course they do NOT need to talk to me, and others, but they SHOULD be made to talk to a GM......................................if they exist

i am glad to see i am not the only one that feels something is wrong here

good night peeps and gl

 

[Cyrah]

Hi Jack OP!

As for dev replies. Well they sure have had time to do so. Why would they though?

The devs created the whole mess. O' wells.

IMHO I think there are 2 ways out of this. Make the mempo a major obtained by turn in. Yes, I know the cheaters have a huge head start.

Or make unattended playing legal. If all they want is player sub fees ( and it sure likes it to me) why do they care who is looking at the screen anyway?

As for all night players, yea, same orcy macer facer was there all night. Probably will be tonight as well.

 

[Foolio the Bard]

The bottom line is this: This event encourages mindless farming. If you want a bunch of Chaos Blue dyes or a Mempo, or all the Majors, you need to spend some serious hours farming -- attended or unattended.

I spend a lot of time with my laptop on my lap, in front of the tv while I farm my minors.

If the Devs truly wanted to have an event without mindless farming (and which discouraged unattended people) it would be very simple. One easy idea would be to have an NPC you report to in Tokuno. Each time you take his quest, you are assigned a random Tokuno monster to kill, and a number of them to kill that is also random between say 20-40.

When you are done with the quest, you get a random minor.

Very simple, and would kill 99% of scripting since what monster and how many would be totally random.

 

[Zippididooda]

BTW I do not recall any rules that you could not get arties if you were hidden, the only rule change I remember is when 10th anni arties were introduced where they lowered the amount of points you get per kill if hidden and added a range check, should still be in effect.

actually neither are in effect, or another condition you arent thinking of

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

actually neither are in effect, or another condition you arent thinking of

Hmm, that could be. But of course it could be in effect and no one knows, since we do not get a notice saying how many points we get ^^

 

[slavoie]

# 6 from the rules of conduct read

"You may not leave an active character or pet in game while unattended. If your character is performing a skill, text or action, you must be able to respond to a Game Master when one attempts to speak to you."

Unless this is in lawyerese, this reads that you only have to respond to a GM if you are performing a skill, text or action. There for if you are standing at the bank and not doing anything you don't have to respond, same would be said for standing in the desert while the monsters in the game auto attack you. In both situations you are not actively participating in the game, but that goes back to the first part of the paragraph.

Two problems, if you are not required to respond to the GM in either situation because of the second part of the paragraph how can the GM prove your afk. Second, if it is lawyerese and they really mean you have to respond to GM in one or the other situations then both are bannable, either way it's either legal or it's not and alot of people would need to be banned cause alot of people bank sit afk.

This is not Burger King people you cant have it your way.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

# 6 from the rules of conduct read

"You may not leave an active character or pet in game while unattended. If your character is performing a skill, text or action, you must be able to respond to a Game Master when one attempts to speak to you."

Unless this is in lawyerese, this reads that you only have to respond to a GM if you are performing a skill, text or action. There for if you are standing at the bank and not doing anything you don't have to respond, same would be said for standing in the desert while the monsters in the game auto attack you. In both situations you are not actively participating in the game, but that goes back to the first part of the paragraph.

Two problems, if you are not required to respond to the GM in either situation because of the second part of the paragraph how can the GM prove your afk. Second, if it is lawyerese and they really mean you have to respond to GM in one or the other situations then both are bannable, either way it's either legal or it's not and alot of people would need to be banned cause alot of people bank sit afk.

This is not Burger King people you cant have it your way.

Auto defending is actively performing a skill, ever hear of combat skills? It could also be considered an action, but it is better to just go with the first option. This would mean people who are bank sitting do not have to respond if they are not doing anything when the gm queries them.

 

[slavoie]

I'm pretty sure the game mechanics that players can't control would not be considered the players responsibility.

And just to be clear im not here to argure UM. I am simply pointing out to all the stone throwers that they live in glass houses. If EA is going to ban one person for afk farming then they need to ban bank sitters acording to their rules of conduct.

 

[Arcades]

These TOK events bring out the worst in all players. Greed drives everyone to farm, and nothing is done to rude *******s who run into a spawn you've been working, casts 2 EVs, auto-hides and turns on his script. I cant do anything about it, GMs dont do ****, and I will get banned for luring succubi/ballys to try and reveal and kill his ass? That is ****ing messed up. If you dont want farming, afk scripting, do these events in fel. Then your greedy ****ing trammies will not page on you for using game mechanics to kill them. MAYBE just maybe it will actually bring ppl together to try taking a spawn instead of every man for himself, this is my spawn, bull**** that is happening in Tok right now. At least have it Faction-only or something in Tramm but if you want the rewards, you can be killed (ie. make Factions in Tramm will be the best adjustment to factions, will somewhat bring back the feel of Order vs Chaos.

Absolutely no risk vs reward in this event. Sad.

 

[Tjalle]

sadly THECU with be farming all night (guessing)

Nope...

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I'm pretty sure the game mechanics that players can't control would not be considered the players responsibility.

And just to be clear im not here to argure UM. I am simply pointing out to all the stone throwers that they live in glass houses. If EA is going to ban one person for afk farming then they need to ban bank sitters acording to their rules of conduct.

But it is. As I have stated before if people want to argue that the current policy needs to be changed than that is fine. But the way it is now bank sitting is legal and auto defending is not. Bank sitting is not considered an action, fighting monsters is. If they change the policy to include bank sitting then so be it. Of course if they just get rid of the 2d client this would not be an issue anyway since you can not refresh in the other clients

 

[Bo Bo]

Bo has no problem with afk farmers, Bo just kills them. Bo plays where you can kill people anywheres.

Here are the two biggest problems Bo has seen with this event.
1. You can farm when you are dead, yes it is true you can afk farm with your tamer while you are dead. When you res the tots are in your pack.
2. If you arent dead and want to afk farm, but are afraid Bo will come and kill you no problem. Either see #1 or just put 125 items in your pack, this way the tot goes directly to your bank box.

Bo would like to thank the devs for doing a great job. Keep up the good work, you should be unemployed soon after this new expansion flops if this is what we can expect.

 

[Fink]

It's worth remembering this ToT spawn will be on for a few more weeks.

That's probably too short a time for the devs to implement any of the clumsy, ham-fisted fixes suggested here to combat unattended farming. Even if they did consider some band-aid fix, it's probably too short a time left for them to justify the time spent on coding/implementing it. At any rate, whatever they come up with is just as likely to anger as many people as it appeases. They simply cannot win.

A few more weeks is plenty of time, however, for everyone to get a stinking mempo, more minors than they'll know what to do with, and more majors than they'll ever need. No need to worry yourself into knots over what the other guy's getting or how (much more) ruined the economy will be. Just don't buy from any cheats. In fact don't buy from anyone. You will get a mempo if you stick with it. If you want specific pigments, swap for them.

I can't help thinking of that cheesy serenity prayer.. "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference."

ToT3's meant to be a bonus.. seems a lot people are not only looking a gift horse in the mouth, but kicking its teeth in.

*edit*

And because I know people will put Olympian effort into missing my point: No, I do not condone cheating.

 

[Harlequin]

Auto defending is actively performing a skill, ever hear of combat skills? It could also be considered an action, but it is better to just go with the first option. This would mean people who are bank sitting do not have to respond if they are not doing anything when the gm queries them.

Here's an evil idea that will meet the OP's requirements...disable auto-defend. Totally. From pets and players (yes players too, coz warriors in full 70s suits can go afk at the headless/orc spawns). Needs a bit more thought though, coz it'll suck if you loose connection or lag.

Won't do anything against the afk scripters that actively targets mobs though.



However, hiders can be revealed in Trammel too. Just takes a bit of creativity and care to avoid luring. I originally typed how to do this, but decided against it in case people start using it to grief others.

And you can steal spawns easily from AFK tamers/warriors. Like taking candy from a baby...

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Here's an evil idea that will meet the OP's requirements...disable auto-defend. Totally. From pets and players (yes players too, coz warriors in full 70s suits can go afk at the headless/orc spawns). Needs a bit more thought though, coz it'll suck if you loose connection or lag.

I am all for this, tho as you said wont do nothing against the scripters, I do see the counter argument for this being that clicking every monster in heavily spawned area's is sort of a drag, but meh can live with it (or use whirlwind to change targets )

 

[slavoie]

But it is. As I have stated before if people want to argue that the current policy needs to be changed than that is fine. But the way it is now bank sitting is legal and auto defending is not. Bank sitting is not considered an action, fighting monsters is. If they change the policy to include bank sitting then so be it. Of course if they just get rid of the 2d client this would not be an issue anyway since you can not refresh in the other clients

Your missing the point of my post. They are both against the rules since the first line reads emphaticaly "You have to be in front of your computer when you play." IE it's not ok to bank sit afk, the problem comes in the interpertation of the second line. How can a GM prover your afk if you dont have to answer him, come to your house and check? Both are against the rules the discrepancy come in the ability to prove it. The first line is an independant statment regardless of the second line that includes a clause for the behaviour as stated in the first!!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Your missing the point of my post. They are both against the rules since the first line reads emphaticaly "You have to be in front of your computer when you play." IE it's not ok to bank sit afk, the problem comes in the interpertation of the second line. How can a GM prover your afk if you dont have to answer him, come to your house and check? Both are against the rules the discrepancy come in the ability to prove it. The first line is an independant statment regardless of the second line that includes a clause for the behaviour as stated in the first!!

Except you fail to read the "active" part of the first line, the second line goes on to define what they consider an active char. Trying to separate all of the lines would be like assigning each as its own new rule, instead of one consistent rule.

"You may not leave an ACTIVE character or pet in game while unattended."
To define what an ACTIVE character is we provide the following:
"If your character is performing a skill, text or action,"
So you know what your responsibility is in such an event we shall explain the following: "you must be able to respond to a Game Master when one attempts to speak to you."

See now how being afk is not what it says, it does not say you may not leave a character in game unattended if it is doing nothing, thus bank sitting is not against the current policy.

I completely understood what you were getting at, so the only time you have to respond to a game master is when you are preforming a skill, text or action. If you are just "there" doing nothing you do not have to respond, it is the game keeping you logged in and thus is not considered an action, and your char is not active so not breaking the ToS.

I guess the only real question becomes, can you be paged on for someone else attacking you while you are bank sitting and you "auto-defend", while highly unlikely it would be the only case where you could perform and action at the bank with out actually being present.

 

[slavoie]

Lets not forget that your journal is collecting entries, much like the auto defend mechanism, this technicaly is an action because you are recording the words of other players.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Lets not forget that your journal is collecting entries, much like the auto defend mechanism, this technicaly is an action because you are recording the words of other players.

Skewing what mechanics are actions and which are not does not really make you right. Your journal will collect entries if you want it to or not, you will only auto defend if you put yourself in a place where monsters spawn. The difference of intent is clearly the definition of actions. Also your character is not "active" while collecting journal entries, your client is.

In KR you collect entries just the same as in 2d except in KR it still knows to log you off due to in activity, Just because the coding on the 2d client is old does not mean you have a choice in the matter, are you going to recode the client just so you can time out?

The 2d client resyncs every time a player comes on screen or a new monster spawns, KR is always in sync. By this logic they should just remove the auto defend option as nothing would respawn since you are not killing it.

The matter of you disagreeing with the current policy is fine, but do not try to fit the policy to meet your needs. This is not better than people who think Kill stealing is against the ToS because Stalking and luring are, the logic is not there to defend that argument but they would still lay claim to paging on you for kill stealing.

If they really had to list everything that was defined as being active then they would also have to begin to try and list the things they consider harassment as well as better defining all the other rules that are in place, while it could be a good thing it would also limit them to any sort of "curve" if someone came up with a creative way to harass you that was not presented in the ToS they would not be able to take action, this is why they have a clause that states harassment is not limited to what is listed but gives you a basic idea of the kinds of things you should not do.

Now you could present the argument that people who train on golems are more than likely afk and hardly ever do you notice any who got banned, this argument could be presented. I am fairly sure there are more than a few people on each shard who would page on all of these people on a daily basis.

Dang it I wanted to keep that short, I guess to be short Could just say that collecting journal entries is fine, killing monsters in order to provoke the collection of journal entries is not. There is quite a big difference in having players run by opposed to having monsters spawn because YOUR character killed monster to make more spawn.

 

[slavoie]

Skewing what mechanics are actions and which are not does not really make you right. Your journal will collect entries if you want it to or not, you will only auto defend if you put yourself in a place where monsters spawn. The difference of intent is clearly the definition of actions. Also your character is not "active" while collecting journal entries, your client is.

In KR you collect entries just the same as in 2d except in KR it still knows to log you off due to in activity, Just because the coding on the 2d client is old does not mean you have a choice in the matter, are you going to recode the client just so you can time out?

The 2d client resyncs every time a player comes on screen or a new monster spawns, KR is always in sync. By this logic they should just remove the auto defend option as nothing would respawn since you are not killing it.

The matter of you disagreeing with the current policy is fine, but do not try to fit the policy to meet your needs. This is not better than people who think Kill stealing is against the ToS because Stalking and luring are, the logic is not there to defend that argument but they would still lay claim to paging on you for kill stealing.

If they really had to list everything that was defined as being active then they would also have to begin to try and list the things they consider harassment as well as better defining all the other rules that are in place, while it could be a good thing it would also limit them to any sort of "curve" if someone came up with a creative way to harass you that was not presented in the ToS they would not be able to take action, this is why they have a clause that states harassment is not limited to what is listed but gives you a basic idea of the kinds of things you should not do.

Now you could present the argument that people who train on golems are more than likely afk and hardly ever do you notice any who got banned, this argument could be presented. I am fairly sure there are more than a few people on each shard who would page on all of these people on a daily basis.

Dang it I wanted to keep that short, I guess to be short Could just say that collecting journal entries is fine, killing monsters in order to provoke the collection of journal entries is not. There is quite a big difference in having players run by opposed to having monsters spawn because YOUR character killed monster to make more spawn.

I'm just arguring this point so don't take it the wrong way.

How can you argure that the Journal is the client and not your char where the auto defend it the char not the client. They are both mechanics of the game and you really can not determine the motive of the individual playing. Why is it ok to stand at the bank and let the game dictate your actions and it's not ok to stand in the desert and do the same. The journal can be logged with EA approved 3rd party app to collect the journal over time. This information can be used by the player / character to exploit a situation, gain knoledge and so on (IE spy on people). Sitting at the bank is playing no matter how you want to argure it.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I'm just arguring this point so don't take it the wrong way.

How can you argure that the Journal is the client and not your char where the auto defend it the char not the client. They are both mechanics of the game and you really can not determine the motive of the individual playing. Why is it ok to stand at the bank and let the game dictate your actions and it's not ok to stand in the desert and do the same. The journal can be logged with EA approved 3rd party app to collect the journal over time. This information can be used by the player / character to exploit a situation, gain knoledge and so on (IE spy on people). Sitting at the bank is playing no matter how you want to argure it.

No worries, I am not taking it the wrong way.

Well I do not dictate the policy that EA puts in place. I can argue it because you can not turn off your journal, no matter what. Auto defend only happens when you intentionally put your character in a position to do as such. Using a third party app completely changed the foundation of the argument, but I am fairly sure you can save your journal with out the use of an app. also do not really see the point in "spying" on people, the game does not really dictate your actions when you stand at the bank because you never perform any actions, the action you perform standing in the desert is you Kill monsters. As previously stated What EA defines as an action is what defines what is right or wrong, if you feel it should be different then I sympathized with your argument but it is simply not that way, Bank sitting involves no actions, Auto defend involves the actions of killing monsters, you could also say there is a benefit to this since in all the legacy dungeons you are able to get a reward for such a task (of in ilshenar you could sit in an easy place like the rat-man cave and get paragon items, or other easy to kill monsters).

I can sympathize with people who have a serious life emergency and get up and go afk in the middle of a spawn, but that does not mean they are not breaking the rules or that other players will not be inclined to try and "rectify" the situation.

People have been running by me and then luring back to me through this event. They have also tried to kill steal among other annoyances that they do in trammel, not even stop and see if I am there just instantly try to decide that they are the police and I am breaking the rules. Have even had one person ask me how they are suppose to know I am there, of course if they hang out long enough they would see that I have to command my pet and invis since I do not have any hiding, Or perhaps simply typing out "hello" or even "are you cheating?" or anything, I may not respond if I do not feel like it but it would be better than just assuming things are being done wrongly.

I am not completely sure if I see the validity of your argument any longer tho, since it does seem you are trying to skew the policy to fit your argument , I am sure that EA does not consider the journal entries to be an action, thus it is not an action. In this case you would need to make a new point for your argument. I am more or less out of ways to describe this so, unless you come up with something creative I will just have to point to all my current posts and will no longer be able to continue the debate with you

 

[Cyrah]

Ok I now understand why Tot3 was set up as it is.

The poor cheaters had their homes burned, their shrouds bleached, their duped items destroyed and many other horrible things.

Tot3 has in one event enabled them to get mempos and sell them for 35 million and up. It is restitution!

I still want to know why unattended playing if you pay is illegal. Why does the TOS say it is? Why do they care as long as they get sub fees?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Ok I now understand why Tot3 was set up as it is.

The poor cheaters had their homes burned, their shrouds bleached, their duped items destroyed and many other horrible things.

Tot3 has in one event enabled them to get mempos and sell them for 35 million and up. It is restitution!

I still want to know why unattended playing if you pay is illegal. Why does the TOS say it is? Why do they care as long as they get sub fees?

*blinx* you mentioned duping items, but afk playing is ok with you? Same concept here...

 

[Cyrah]

Cloak, come on!

I never said they were both ok Sir.

I asked why unattended playing is illegal in the first place is all.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Cloak, come on!

I never said they were both ok Sir.

I asked why unattended playing is illegal in the first place is all.

Well I did address it just in a round about way, "same concept" was my answer to your actual question

 

[Lynk]

One last thing! Would you're time not be better spent concerning you're self with what’s going on in you're life rather than worrying what’s going on in other peoples lifes?

You're = You are (contraction)

Your = possessive

It doesn't matter what safeguards you put in to deter people, afk farming will never die.

The best bet would be to hold these future events in a felucca ruleset, see how many people farm AFK.

(pre-emptive statement saying that I have no desire to play siege thanks)

 

[Bo Bo]

It doesn't matter what safeguards you put in to deter people, afk farming will never die.

The best bet would be to hold these future events in a felucca ruleset, see how many people farm AFK.

(pre-emptive statement saying that I have no desire to play siege thanks)

Didnt you read what Bo wrote, on siege they are just farming as a ghost, or with 125 items in the pack. So it useless to even bother tryin to pk them. The loot will goto their bank box for them, or in their pack when they res.

 

[Tjalle]

It doesn't matter what safeguards you put in to deter people, afk farming will never die.

The best bet would be to hold these future events in a felucca ruleset, see how many people farm AFK.

(pre-emptive statement saying that I have no desire to play siege thanks)

Didnt you read what Bo wrote, on siege they are just farming as a ghost, or with 125 items in the pack. So it useless to even bother tryin to pk them. The loot will goto their bank box for them, or in their pack when they res.

I´m surprised that isn´t fixed yet.

I prefer a BoS myself...

 

[Lynk]

Didnt you read what Bo wrote, on siege they are just farming as a ghost, or with 125 items in the pack. So it useless to even bother tryin to pk them. The loot will goto their bank box for them, or in their pack when they res.

Can still kill their pet to deter them.

 

[Limlight]

I "accidently" aggro to much spawn and need to run to certain spots and hide.

Unfortunetly, these afk tamers have dead pets after my "stupidity"

 

[Demonous]

ToT II sucked.... u couldn't even get minors in the dojo