Oh here we go again.
Thank goodness SA is in in beta testing. There's no turning back now!
Thank goodness SA is in in beta testing. There's no turning back now!
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B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
Chrissay ... I was on CompuServe when AOL stated those same words to a bunch of us business account admins.
Two weeks later our forum was closed and the "business class" ties we had to CS were severed and we were told "suck it up, you are now just another customer". AOL lost over 3,000 accounts from 14 different businesses throughout the US and Canada.
Seeing is believing.
Two weeks later our forum was closed and the "business class" ties we had to CS were severed and we were told "suck it up, you are now just another customer". AOL lost over 3,000 accounts from 14 different businesses throughout the US and Canada.
Seeing is believing.
C
Chrissay_
Guest
As stated before everything is going to remain the same. This is NOT a merger. Your accounts will not be affected by any means.
No, it's a union
(perhaps given that it coincides with the simultaneously-announced departure of Mark Jacobs, people could be forgiven for reading "under new management" into the announcement?)
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
The release of Stygian Abyss is itself cause for alarm.
You are new to EA, you might want to ask around about Austin and Redwood Shores. It looks like Mythic is next. UO may be quick to follow. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- You might want to reconsider what you just said, as a few of your declarations are factually incorrect
C
Chrissay_
Guest
As stated before this is NOT a merger.
M
MYUO
Guest
We heard the same assurance when EA bought Mystic. At that time, UO team thought Mystic could be be under UO but it turned out the UO team was disassembled and shipped to VA. The result? More than half of the team members left (still remember reading goodbye post everyday right after the announcement). And, more than 6 months of idle in development (remember we got the same x-mas gifts for 2007 as 2006? they didn't even have time to update the names of the snowmen, although the soul frags are handy).
That being said, I just hope for the best and wish what I considered the best dev team of UO won't get affectted. We eyecandythirsty-businessmanwannabe-pvpegobloating-betatestholic UO players will do fine no matter what.
J
Jhym
Guest
hrm... ok, another re-org for EA.
At some point you'd think they'd just make an entirely new brand and stuff all of the studios into it to reduce marketing costs.
At some point you'd think they'd just make an entirely new brand and stuff all of the studios into it to reduce marketing costs.
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Stupid Miner
Guest
*pst* you dont have to keep defending yourself, you've stated enough for a rational person to understand.
...But these people in the Uhall are like a collective bunch of Chicken Littles running around with their heads cut off, but still somehow screaming that the sky is falling.
Odd? Very. Amusing? Quite. To be taken seriously? Definitely not.
J
Jhym
Guest
You mean I'm supposed to have no head?!! AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! I -HAVE- a head!
On noes....
If Chrissay doesn't know that about UOHall by now, she would have to be in a sensory deprivation tank with a computer just reading everything to her in dulcet, Patrick Stewart tones.
On noes....
If Chrissay doesn't know that about UOHall by now, she would have to be in a sensory deprivation tank with a computer just reading everything to her in dulcet, Patrick Stewart tones.
Taylor
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Poor, Chrissay, lol. For what it's worth, I hear ya.
Thanks for the persistent reassurance.
Chrissay, all you keep addressing is mythic is still mythic and stygian abyss is still on the for front. my question is, if stygian abyss isn't successful, and i think i speak for many of us here, does this mean ea or this new "group" will frown upon uo and say bye bye?
This is awkward...I'm kind of in the position of appearing to defend them and expressing grave concern and doubt about how innocuous I (don't) think this is at the same time.
In Chrissay's defense....She can't possibly answer those questions.
First of all....What's "successful?" I've said all along that I have no impression this expansion is made to do anything other than provide existing players with new content and other stuff to keep us engaged and interested. Yet a lot of you seem to think that the expansion, and the game, is doomed unless it brings in new players.
We don't even know what the terms of success are for these people. Chrissay isn't going to know either, as ultimately that's the decision of whomever is running EA at any given moment.
So let's say whomever that is sets criteria for the success or failure of SA. And let's say SA is a success.
Guess what. UO is still potentially in danger. Business people are very capable of making irrational decisions or just bad, if rational, decisions. "I think the future of EA lies in gold-based MMOs themed after Tiger Woods. All resources will be dedicated to that. UO's gone."
Let's say it's a failure.
Guess what. UO can easily survive a failed expansion. "Oh well, we lost money on this expansion, but the project itself is still bringing a steady cash flow, let's keep it going."
SA's "success" will not be an objectively-made decision. There's no "bright line test" that everyone knows for an expansion's success or failure. UO's future will likewise not necessarily be dependent upon the success or failure of a single expansion. It might, but it also might not. EA might want to cancel UO right now, and SA might do well, that they will keep it. EA might want to keep UO right now, and SA might do so badly that they decide "screw it."
We. Have. No. Idea.
Nor does Chrissay.
If she did, she wouldn't tell us....Why? Because she is not dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds her.
So to summarize....
1. The success or failure of SA is going to be judged by criteria we don't know about and can only guess at, and can change depending on who is doing the judging.
2. The success or failure may or may not be linked to that of SA.
3. Chrissay doesn't know the answer to either question. If she does, which I don't think she does, she ain't gonna tell us no matter how much we scream.
So, umm.....I suggest we stop asking. It's hard I know; I wanted to scream when I saw this announcement, and unlike Chrissay I don't think this is a good sign.
But hey.....I could easily, easily be wrong.
-Galen's player
doesn't say UO killed NWN says AOL did?
I'll take your word for it....Let's just say that I'm not unaware of how I'm sometimes capable of making....
How to put this best....
Inappropriate extrapolations?
-Galen's player
.. at least I'm listening to you...
K
kennykilleduo
Guest
6 months from now it will be who does better money wise : UO or DAOC...Then goodbye to one of them , my bets are on DOAC goes bye bye... 
Maybe UO will get a better budget now.....
Maybe UO will get a better budget now.....
kelmo
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I think it is going to be OK. *smiles* With a bit more research, it seems to be a solid move. The nay sayers and chicken littles have always been here, yet we can log in everyday.
Would any of those Bioware guys know how to code a clever and fun brewing/winery/distilling mini game system? *chuckles* You Mythic folks thought I forgot about it?
Would any of those Bioware guys know how to code a clever and fun brewing/winery/distilling mini game system? *chuckles* You Mythic folks thought I forgot about it?
F
Foolio the Bard
Guest
I don't think it's chicken little syndrome to realize that this move will have a very important (positively or negatively) impact on UO's future.
It's not about SA, but what comes after that. We could well see some reorganization in the fall. I don't doubt that everything is "business as usual" at Mythic today. But "today" is the key word.
It's not about SA, but what comes after that. We could well see some reorganization in the fall. I don't doubt that everything is "business as usual" at Mythic today. But "today" is the key word.
H
Heartseeker
Guest
Didn't Bioware do the Baldur's Gate games? I always pined for trees and scenery in UO that looked like Baldur's Gate, but I must say, going back and replaying Baldur's Gate, UO's gameplay has aged much more gracefully. 
I just hope they come out and support UO like Jacobs did.
I just hope they come out and support UO like Jacobs did.
J
jelinidas
Guest
S
Sweeney
Guest
Is the correct phrase EA/Mythic, EA/BioWare, or Mythic/BioWare, or
BioWare/Mythic?
BioWare/Mythic?
Heh heh. Im sure thats what they told you. In fact im sure they probably went to great lengths to stress the fact. That doesnt however mean that its NOT a merger...
Well, not yet. EA might decide to consolidate Mythic and BioWare one year from now, who knows...
Anyway I'm not worried about UO, it already survived 2 studio changes and it can survive the 3rd.
Though it would be pretty ironic if after shipping the development team from Austin to Redwood Shores and from Redwood Shores to Fairfax, EA sent the team back to Austin...
This happened because Warhammer didn't meet expectations. This is what EA does and will continue to do because all they think about is the bottom line. Having one person manage 3 MMOs was ridiculously stupid in the first place. Now EA is consolidating management even more.
Does this mean that in the future, BioWare people will help work on UO?
The sky is falling!!!! It's how I feel, but I hope I'm wrong.
According to EA's reports, it has 300k subscribers.
If they expected more than that, they were stupid.
I'd be more than happy with that.
-Galen's player
H
Harb
Guest
As you know my friend I seldom disagree with you, and do so only partially here. I actually want EA to be concerned with the bottom line; it seems to me the appropriate role for a public company. UO remains a cash cow, both in terms of EA revenue and revenue generated surrounding the game, which only on occassion is manipulted by our dev folks. Tiers in leadership and management are inherent to all large organizations, as are priorities and focus differences between the various tiers. I have not been bashful in expressing concerns with Mythic's role as UO's "guardian" (for lack of a better term). It's not an adversarial view and easily misinterpreted, I have and continue to believe that they are incapable of embracing our game with the same fervor as they embrace the products which they themselves have created. It’s human, and is not a condemnation, only a supposition on my part. The only time we actually see it is when resources are allocated or “shared.” As to how well they have represented us to the parent EA, there have been some public comments, but truth be told we’ll never really know. As to the role of BioWare, it one of those where we’ll actually have to wait and see. Sure, it can get worse, but it also can get better. About all I’d personally like to see from them is 1) some attention on this board, a “higher headquarters” person who monitors to determine a sense of the player base and to ensure dialogue continues between our dev folks and us, and 2) a public role to ensure we’re on a level (or higher considering player investments of time and money) plane with other competing Mythic products. It does appear from Chrissay’s comments that there are no envisioned changes directly affecting us or our dev folks, with the immediate exception of a reporting chain and some changes on the business side of things (which seem unlikely to have negative impact on us). But again, we’ll have to wait and see!
i just will hope and pray that Bioware is much more adept and concerned with actually marketting UO and getting boxes back on the shelves. 3 years now since the last UO box. that is alarming.
Hmm.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24203
However, I'm not the only one wondering how pissed Mark is.
Here's a weird mention:
http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/06/24/roundup-tk
I'd be very happy with 300k, because it means that I had an MMO that was bigger in terms of numbers than UO was, and while I'd definitely keep UO around as long as it was profitable, I wouldn't want it as my flagship. "Bigger than UO, potentially profitable within a year" would have been enough for me.
The whole idea of acquiring Mythic was that EA didn't seem to understand the MMO business model, seemed just smart enough to know it didn't understand it, and it wanted people who did.
So....They swallowed Mythic, produced an MMO that (shock!!) didn't sell as well as, say, a stupid sports game.....And then got rid of Mythic's founder.
Word to any game company: Do not sell out to EA no matter how much they offer you, if you value your culture, identity, and your founder.
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/...hic-co-founder-mysteriously-departs-20090625/
This site doesn't mention UO at all of course. I mean, no geeks play UO, right? They all play WoW for the graphics.
*smirk*
It does say the following indirectly encouraging things:
Though this is encouraging, I am constrained to point out that EA promising anything means....Well, nothing.
Mark Jacobs, from what I have read, always had a mixed reputation. Seemed to me like a tough, smart, straight shooter sometimes....And a nut other times.
I'm putting a negative spin on his leaving because it feels right, but there's obviously a positive spin that could be used as well.
All in all.....I am constrained to say that this minor research has produced no negative signs for UO. Honestly the fact that we were mentioned specifically at all is a pretty big deal to me. But there's negative potential there....Who exactly is it at EA that currently understands the MMO business model? In other words who isn't going to be stupidly expecting a 12-year old subscription service to monthly rake in the same profits that a single good-selling sports game does? Who at EA is smart enough to look for a sustained, monthly revenue stream as opposed to quick, massive, risky profits?
I hope someone is.
-Galen's player
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24203
Well, they mentioned it. I don't see how that's a bad sign.
However, I'm not the only one wondering how pissed Mark is.
Hmm.
Here's a weird mention:
http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/06/24/roundup-tk
I'll say it again.....Anyone at EA who expected WHO to be a serious competitor to WoW was an idiot. Idiot, idiot, idiot. If Mark expected that, then he's an idiot too.
I'd be very happy with 300k, because it means that I had an MMO that was bigger in terms of numbers than UO was, and while I'd definitely keep UO around as long as it was profitable, I wouldn't want it as my flagship. "Bigger than UO, potentially profitable within a year" would have been enough for me.
The whole idea of acquiring Mythic was that EA didn't seem to understand the MMO business model, seemed just smart enough to know it didn't understand it, and it wanted people who did.
So....They swallowed Mythic, produced an MMO that (shock!!) didn't sell as well as, say, a stupid sports game.....And then got rid of Mythic's founder.
Word to any game company: Do not sell out to EA no matter how much they offer you, if you value your culture, identity, and your founder.
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/...hic-co-founder-mysteriously-departs-20090625/
This site doesn't mention UO at all of course. I mean, no geeks play UO, right? They all play WoW for the graphics.
*smirk*
It does say the following indirectly encouraging things:
Hmm.
Though this is encouraging, I am constrained to point out that EA promising anything means....Well, nothing.
Mark Jacobs, from what I have read, always had a mixed reputation. Seemed to me like a tough, smart, straight shooter sometimes....And a nut other times.
I'm putting a negative spin on his leaving because it feels right, but there's obviously a positive spin that could be used as well.
All in all.....I am constrained to say that this minor research has produced no negative signs for UO. Honestly the fact that we were mentioned specifically at all is a pretty big deal to me. But there's negative potential there....Who exactly is it at EA that currently understands the MMO business model? In other words who isn't going to be stupidly expecting a 12-year old subscription service to monthly rake in the same profits that a single good-selling sports game does? Who at EA is smart enough to look for a sustained, monthly revenue stream as opposed to quick, massive, risky profits?
I hope someone is.
-Galen's player
T
Trevelyan
Guest
What the.. who said BioWare made BioSHOCK?
Mass Effect is a rather good game tbh, i'm surprised more people here haven't mentioned it.
Also, I love the idea that Bioware could do any harm for UO (if, indeed, it had ANY impact on UO's development) and that case may not be the reverse.
*hopes Mass Effect 2 doesn't ship with elves*
Mass Effect is a rather good game tbh, i'm surprised more people here haven't mentioned it.
Also, I love the idea that Bioware could do any harm for UO (if, indeed, it had ANY impact on UO's development) and that case may not be the reverse.
*hopes Mass Effect 2 doesn't ship with elves*
LOL. Problem solved for speedhacking and scripts. Might want to delete the post before the dev's actually start thinking it IS the solution to all the problems.
The game started out with 800,000 and sold 1.2 million copies. So there was obviously a market for it. Warhammer didn't live up to expectations so more than half left and the game has been floundering ever since. A MMO is supposed to grow subscribers, not lose them.
I doubt that UO is making that much money for EA, especially the past 2 years. If that were true than EA would never have considered shutting it down. It really depends on how good the Stygian Abyss expansion turns out to be. Unfortunately it is difficult to tell what is going to happen because we know next to nothing about the expansion. And what we do know makes it sound like the past 3 which have only kept the game alive, not grown it.Harb said:
My very distinct impression is that MMOs make their money from subscriptions, not boxes.
10 seconds spent on the WHO site (I was unwilling to spend more than 10 seconds on this endeavor) I was unable to immediately locate the monthly subscription fee.
Let's guess at $15 a month.
300,000 X 15 = 4500000
$4,500,000 a month. 12 months. $54 million a year.
Now, it might be that servers and dev salaries are so expensive that WHO loses money.
But I doubt it.
We have one source for EA wanting to shut down UO. And that is Mark Jacobs's rantings on some blog.
Here:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/warhammer-time
a Mythic dude makes the following statement:
This was a spontaneous utterance, wherein UO didn't have to be mentioned.
By contrast, the source people tend to use for their own negative statements about UO's profitability is mostly their own experiences. "I see less people than I used to. UO's going down the tubes." Some people even go to the WBB and make these statements, seemingly unaware, or purposefully omitting, that the bank sitting has turned from the WBB to Luna.
Now....Either of these statements (Jacobs saying UO was gonna be shut down; that other dude saying UO is "wildly profitable") could be lies or exaggerations.
Or, most worryingly to me, they could both be true, which would mean that EA likes the money it gets from UO but somehow doesn't understand why it's making the profits it is, and thus wants to marginalize it or get rid of it to concentrate on, I don't know, sports games. Which are easier to understand and have a business model they are more familiar with.
-Galen's player
H
Harb
Guest
I have no clue how many folks actively play UO, though have observed what seems an increase of late. Nothing like before for sure, but far from desolate. Of course there is variance shard to shard; and for that matter country to country. I never knew what to take from Jacob's assertions, still don't, and frankly don't suppose there's even any relevance anymore. I do remember about the same time, EA's CEO claimed UO's active subscriptions were much higher, somebody smarter that I can probably dig up the specific quote. His comment seemed high (very high), but frankly based on housing across the shards 100k honestly seems low, so who knows (well, who knows and can actually say based on NDAs!).
At the end of the day, from EA's view, it is a decision of dollars and cents, which despite my love of the game and community, as earlier is exactly what I believe their position should be. If they take the long view, profits are profits, and as long as the game remains profitable, there seems no reason to abandon the project. Even at 100k, turning only a million a month likely still provides a reasonable margin, considering how relatively little actually seems reinvested into our game. The other consideration lies in the fact that these revenues stem from a very committed base, that for each "promotion" tends to respond favorably, and alternatively likely would represent a high percentage of non-recoverable subscribers were they to shut the servers down. We don't, and likely never will know where the lines are drawn. As long as the folks on the business side of the game generate revenue, and represent our game and we players to the company, we should have little to fear. What role Mythic has played in that regard is unknown. What role BioWare will perform is also unknown. I honestly have fewer concerns stemming from this announcement than I had prior!
At the end of the day, from EA's view, it is a decision of dollars and cents, which despite my love of the game and community, as earlier is exactly what I believe their position should be. If they take the long view, profits are profits, and as long as the game remains profitable, there seems no reason to abandon the project. Even at 100k, turning only a million a month likely still provides a reasonable margin, considering how relatively little actually seems reinvested into our game. The other consideration lies in the fact that these revenues stem from a very committed base, that for each "promotion" tends to respond favorably, and alternatively likely would represent a high percentage of non-recoverable subscribers were they to shut the servers down. We don't, and likely never will know where the lines are drawn. As long as the folks on the business side of the game generate revenue, and represent our game and we players to the company, we should have little to fear. What role Mythic has played in that regard is unknown. What role BioWare will perform is also unknown. I honestly have fewer concerns stemming from this announcement than I had prior!
Although, it is apparently time travelling - announcement dated 24 Jun 2009 11:06:18, which reads "Mark Jacobs, co-founder and current General Manager of Mythic, will leave EA on June 23, 2009."
This is EA
Your Business and Development Teams will be added to the collective.
You will Service us.
Resistance is futile
Well is sounded a bit Borgish to me hehe...
Well the anagram of Bioware and Mythic is "Erotica by Whim" so perhaps this move indicates that EA is exploring a new gaming genre?WHat about MythicBioChrissay?
Absent that, I don't really expect much to change.