A "classic" shard idea...

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Right but if they make this new shard you would be naive to think that the cheaters will not go there. So now, as I said in my post, you have a bunch of cheaters on a shard with UO "vets" and returnee's, ruining their gaming experience.

Thing is, scripting and duping hurts current UO far worse than it ever could 'old' UO. Why? Because old UO was not an item based game. Everyone in the game had similar equipment. Items did not determine the outcome of PvP back in the old days. And of course there is speedhacking...but that can be fixed using a server-side speed limit. That is something that should go into a classic shard no doubt.

The issue here is not "will there be cheaters". There has always been cheaters. I watched two guys dupe a black dye tub using a server boundary bug one night back in 1998. It had no effect on me. I didn't care. If they dyed clothing pure black, so what?

But you fast forward to 2009, and when players dupe Val hammers it has a remarkable far reaching effect on the game...because the items that are created with those duped hammers shouldn't even exist. Val hammer made items are supposed to be extremely rare...yet you can find them by the hundreds, nay thousands, selling on dozens of vendors all over Luna on all shards.

Guess what...

...a classic shard wouldn't have Val hammers. It wouldn't even have Luna!!

A classic shard would be a clean slate. It would be a chance for Mythic to do what OSI failed at...to carry on the name of Ultima the way that its creator intended.

I would miss Atlantic, but seriously...I would leave it forever if there was a classic shard that was pre-Ren...and there are a whole lot of ex-UO and current UO players that would do the same.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Good to see all the positive support for this idea.

DEVS TAKE NOTICE!!!!

Take notice of what? Of 20 or so people on a message board?

The most liberal estimate I've ever seen about how many players would return for a classic shard was about 700, and that was making the ridiculous assumption that every singe player on a particular, PvP-oriented free shard would start paying $15 or so a month (including taxes) to play the game they currently play for free.

700 out of 100,000. An increase of less than 1%, and we don't even know how long they'd last. And that's if all 700 came back which they wouldn't. And further that's assuming that all 700 of them don't already have paid accounts, which some might.

Let's say it's 1,000. OK, now you're talking an increase of 1%. Would they all stay? Would the increased revenue of at most $15,000 a month be worth the work of having yet another rules set to babysit? They already have at least 2, Siege and everyone else. (Some say the Asian Siege shard is different enough that it should count as a separate rules set, but I'm not counting it.) Would the returning players demand access to all new content? Would they be angry if the old bugs (zero-damage spell bug anyone?) came back? Would they be angry at how warriors could STILL farm demons semi-afk more-or-less as they do now, just not as quickly?

There is no agreement about what would constitute a classic shard. Some of you all say pre-Trammel; some pre-publish 16 (the power scroll publish); some pre-LBR (no robots); some pre-AoS. I once suggested post-AoS, but pre-caps.

How about UO immediately upon release? When the ferry service from Skara to the mainland didn't work, leading one player posting on the old Usenet newsgroups to predict UO's imminent death? No healing skill?

Does anyone else remember when the Moongates would take you town-to-town on the basis of the positions of the twin moons Trammel and Felucca (yes, twin moons back then, not facets), but the moons would change position so quickly or so slowly and so unpredictably that it was basically a crap shoot?

Some of you have even proposed what amount to new rules sets, and called it "classic shard," when in fact it's a custom-designed rules set incorporating elements of several eras of the game.

I mean, really. Give this a rest. At this rate, you're going to exhaust everyone else, get what you want, only to (100% or more guaranteed) find lots of things to complain about and blame lots of other folks for how the new shard hasn't gone as well as you'd hoped.

-Galen's player

 

[Paradox_]

No - you give us a break.

You think only 700 people will return? Are you kidding me? What a JOKE.

Around 20,000 people play that shard. That is ACTIVE. What about all the people who dont play Freeshards? Who left because they no longer like what UO has become but would return because, hands down, was one of the best MMORPG's of all time and they are crying out for something like that.

These people dont care about graphics etc - its simplicity was a major attraction and appeal of the game.

I would estimate with proper (and i stress this) marketing of such a shard, word of mouth from new to ex-players, that at least 30-40,000 people would try. I have browsed forums in AUSTRALIA - relatively small market - and there hundreds of people dieing for a classic shard - even resorting to making one themselves with such a small playerbase just because they want that era back.

You think 20 people on a message board are the only ones? That is people currently playing - a small fraction of what did play.

And how they would choose an era? Easy. Get a focus group together similar to the pvp changes however dont fill it with people who have no idea. Advertise this.

ADVERTISE THAT YOU ARE TAKING APPLICATIONS FOR A FOCUS GROUP BASED ON _CLASSIC_ ULTIMA.

You would be suprised how many people apply - lots of guilds have stuck together post-uo. The contribution from even a dozen GM's of classic guilds would get input from HUNDREDS of classic players. It would not take alot of effort at all. EA are just lazy and dont see the potential - id wager noone in the current team played pre-AOS. And that is apart of the problem.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

So....When they do it, which let's face it, they will sooner or later after me and a handful of others stop fighting the vocal minority because we have other things to do, and it fails, it'll be because they didn't market it properly?

*chuckles*

Oh and no, the 700 was someone else's estimate. Someone who actually supports the idea. So yeah, if you think it's more, go settle it with the people on your own side instead of TALKING TO ME IN ALL CAPS!!!

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

lol

-Galen's player

No - you give us a break.

You think only 700 people will return? Are you kidding me? What a JOKE.

Around 20,000 people play that shard. That is ACTIVE. What about all the people who dont play Freeshards? Who left because they no longer like what UO has become but would return because, hands down, was one of the best MMORPG's of all time and they are crying out for something like that.

These people dont care about graphics etc - its simplicity was a major attraction and appeal of the game.

I would estimate with proper (and i stress this) marketing of such a shard, word of mouth from new to ex-players, that at least 30-40,000 people would try. I have browsed forums in AUSTRALIA - relatively small market - and there hundreds of people dieing for a classic shard - even resorting to making one themselves with such a small playerbase just because they want that era back.

You think 20 people on a message board are the only ones? That is people currently playing - a small fraction of what did play.

And how they would choose an era? Easy. Get a focus group together similar to the pvp changes however dont fill it with people who have no idea. Advertise this.

ADVERTISE THAT YOU ARE TAKING APPLICATIONS FOR A FOCUS GROUP BASED ON _CLASSIC_ ULTIMA.

You would be suprised how many people apply - lots of guilds have stuck together post-uo. The contribution from even a dozen GM's of classic guilds would get input from HUNDREDS of classic players. It would not take alot of effort at all. EA are just lazy and dont see the potential - id wager noone in the current team played pre-AOS. And that is apart of the problem.

 

[Paradox_]

So....When they do it, which let's face it, they will sooner or later after me and a handful of others stop fighting the vocal minority because we have other things to do, and it fails, it'll be because they didn't market it properly?

*chuckles*

Oh and no, the 700 was someone else's estimate. Someone who actually supports the idea. So yeah, if you think it's more, go settle it with the people on your own side instead of TALKING TO ME IN ALL CAPS!!!

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

lol

-Galen's player

Only the first line was directed at you.

Rest was at everyone - mainly EA. The caps is because of the frustration that alot of us feel.

If someone reverted all the shards to classic and deprived you of the game you loved - would you not feel aggreved and constantly try to have that back?

If you say no - then you obviously do not love the game as much as alot of us (there are many of these threads made each week) and therefore it is not your place to tell us to stop.

 

[Heartseeker]

I recently tried a retro/classic shard and I can tell you it is a lot of fun.

The game is not on easy mode like it is on regular shards, and it isn't a pk gang fest either.

It is fun to actually survive in a unpredictable world where making friends is very helpful.

The monsters are all tough and there isn't any instant gratification, resulting in more of a community and real world feel.

A classic shard would be nothing like Siege, it would have a lot less cheating and duping.

Most things can be made and people that fight with only a robe on can still survive.

It actually means something when you die, and also when you help someone.

Don't under estimate what this game was once like.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So....When they do it, which let's face it, they will sooner or later after me and a handful of others stop fighting the vocal minority because we have other things to do, and it fails, it'll be because they didn't market it properly?

But why do you feel the need to fight it?

If they did it, and you didn't want to play on it...then you don't. Those of us that do want to play on it don't have that option. Are our subscription fees somehow worth less than yours?

Where is the harm in EA offering an alternative?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Don't under estimate what this game was once like.

 

[CORRECTUO]

Thing is, scripting and duping hurts current UO far worse than it ever could 'old' UO. Why? Because old UO was not an item based game. Everyone in the game had similar equipment. Items did not determine the outcome of PvP back in the old days. And of course there is speedhacking...but that can be fixed using a server-side speed limit. That is something that should go into a classic shard no doubt.

The issue here is not "will there be cheaters". There has always been cheaters. I watched two guys dupe a black dye tub using a server boundary bug one night back in 1998. It had no effect on me. I didn't care. If they dyed clothing pure black, so what?

But you fast forward to 2009, and when players dupe Val hammers it has a remarkable far reaching effect on the game...because the items that are created with those duped hammers shouldn't even exist. Val hammer made items are supposed to be extremely rare...yet you can find them by the hundreds, nay thousands, selling on dozens of vendors all over Luna on all shards.

Guess what...

...a classic shard wouldn't have Val hammers. It wouldn't even have Luna!!

A classic shard would be a clean slate. It would be a chance for Mythic to do what OSI failed at...to carry on the name of Ultima the way that its creator intended.

I would miss Atlantic, but seriously...I would leave it forever if there was a classic shard that was pre-Ren...and there are a whole lot of ex-UO and current UO players that would do the same.

Yes, right here, what Morgana said here. You have touched on the majority of the reasons classic retro servers would be a saving grace for UO. I wish I could coppy and past this into my sig, I really do.

She is right, there was cheating and duping, but it was the duping of items that had little to no effect on game play what so ever. The players of today just dont seem to grasp the concept of a game where items were only a small factor in combat, both PvM and PvP.

On a classic server, GM smith, or tailor, or bowcrafter, or even tinkerer will mean something. Not like today where GM is a joke and everything is dominated by those elite who can get their hands on 120 power scrolls and those duped runic tools. That right there is game breaking. It kills crafting, the keystone to a games economy.

The devs have nothing to lose if they put in classic servers. It cant be all that hard if there are people out there with only a fraction of the resources available to the EA devs running free shards.

I know I would come back and reactivate all of my old accounts if they put in classic servers. I'd start out from scratch all over again with a newbie character who only has a practice weapon, a candle, a book, and 100 gold. And there are a lot of other players who would gladly do the same. Why? Because even though old UO was a 2d sprite game, it still offered superior content and game play what gave players the freedom to play however they wanted to.

 

[CORRECTUO]

I recently tried a retro/classic shard and I can tell you it is a lot of fun.

The game is not on easy mode like it is on regular shards, and it isn't a pk gang fest either.

It is fun to actually survive in a unpredictable world where making friends is very helpful.

The monsters are all tough and there isn't any instant gratification, resulting in more of a community and real world feel.

A classic shard would be nothing like Siege, it would have a lot less cheating and duping.

Most things can be made and people that fight with only a robe on can still survive.

It actually means something when you die, and also when you help someone.

Don't under estimate what this game was once like.

Thank you! Thank you for posting this! It warms my heart to see more people who actually understand what old UO was like.

Thank you!

 

[AesSedai]

I recently tried a retro/classic shard and I can tell you it is a lot of fun.

The game is not on easy mode like it is on regular shards, and it isn't a pk gang fest either.

It is fun to actually survive in a unpredictable world where making friends is very helpful.

The monsters are all tough and there isn't any instant gratification, resulting in more of a community and real world feel.

A classic shard would be nothing like Siege, it would have a lot less cheating and duping.

Most things can be made and people that fight with only a robe on can still survive.

It actually means something when you die, and also when you help someone.

Don't under estimate what this game was once like.

Thank you! Thank you for posting this! It warms my heart to see more people who actually understand what old UO was like.

Thank you!

- What I'd like to know is: Where are my rose-colored glasses -'smilies'?!?!

The UO & the internet has evolved, so much so, that people would gratuitously & perhaps even gratefully, maybe even free - fully, yearn to take advantage of the beautiful, antiquated code that many of us have held so dearly ('can not you still hear the treasure chest opening upon login or the deer 'scream' when attacked?)... why so many people believe everything would be well if they could just reboot the '97 to pre-AoS -era, I just do not know (have you considered the various 'duping', house stealings, or other blatant errors that have been accounted for via UO updates?). Alas, if you can regain the internet of '97, then perhaps you can also salvage the UO of then, as well. ~aka~ it cannot happen: data gets lost (aside from a portion of the internet that has been archived ), and perhaps that fie towards EA was a great thing; at least I like to think it ended up being a good fire / grande roast for all.

Love UO - Love Evolution - 11+ Years = Priceless

(You hear me EA? Mr. Riccitiello? Evolve UO mas, por favor. Embrace y(our) rough diamond that has withstood this test of time. Even though it has become our UO; only you & yours can make it the Best UO..)

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Again...

What difference would it make to you?

You don't want to play classic UO...DON'T!!

No one here is suggesting replacing current shards with classic shards.

There is this big list of shards you can log on to when the game starts. Just don't click the one(s) that say "Classic" next to them, or it.

Is it really that difficult to understand? Some people do not want the same things out of this game that you want...but they are just as willing to pay for what they want as you are.

In fact, I would gladly agree to a price increase for a classic shard, as long as it had actual GM support. $19.99 per month = old school UO with actual GMs at your disposal = Morgana LeFay in Heaven!!

 

[CORRECTUO]

- What I'd like to know is: Where are my rose-colored glasses -'smilies'?!?!

The UO & the internet has evolved, so much so, that people would gratuitously & perhaps even gratefully, maybe even free - fully, yearn to take advantage of the beautiful, antiquated code that many of us have held so dearly ('can not you still hear the treasure chest opening upon login or the deer 'scream' when attacked?)... why so many people believe everything would be well if they could just reboot the '97 to pre-AoS -era, I just do not know (have you considered the various 'duping', house stealings, or other blatant errors that have been accounted for via UO updates?). Alas, if you can regain the internet of '97, then perhaps you can also salvage the UO of then, as well. ~aka~ it cannot happen: data gets lost (aside from a portion of the internet that has been archived ), and perhaps that fie towards EA was a great thing; at least I like to think it ended up being a good fire / grande roast for all.

Love UO - Love Evolution - 11+ Years = Priceless

(You hear me EA? Mr. Riccitiello? Evolve UO mas, por favor. Embrace y(our) rough diamond that has withstood this test of time. Even though it has become our UO; only you & yours can make it the Best UO..)

First of all, the house stealing, that happened like, what, once in a blue moon? My house never got stolen from me. Neither did the houses of the people I played with back then. As a matter of fact, I remember OSI taking care of that little problem after it happened. The duping back then was trivial. What were they duping so much, hmm? Dye tubs? Vanq weapons? Well, the dye tubs were nothing. They didnt affect game play at all. The vanq weapons? those could be obtained by any fisherman or treasure hunter. And it wasnt a daunting task to obtain vanq weapons either, not like obtaining artifacts today, where you have to run some peerless boss nonsense and you're not even guaranteed to get an artifact.

As for it not being possible to make a UO retro server. Hey, tell that to the dozens of people out there who are running free shards. Gee it seems kinda funny that some slacker-jack idiot and his buddies can run a free shard, based on that "old UO tech" on the "new internet", but for some reason, EA cant. You mean to tell me that EA has less resources that some no body running a free server? Wow, thats just sad.

Bascially, your argument is moot.

 

[CORRECTUO]

Again...

What difference would it make to you?

You don't want to play classic UO...DON'T!!

No one here is suggesting replacing current shards with classic shards.

There is this big list of shards you can log on to when the game starts. Just don't click the one(s) that say "Classic" next to them, or it.

Is it really that difficult to understand? Some people do not want the same things out of this game that you want...but they are just as willing to pay for what they want as you are.

In fact, I would gladly agree to a price increase for a classic shard, as long as it had actual GM support. $19.99 per month = old school UO with actual GMs at your disposal = Morgana LeFay in Heaven!!

Eh, a price hike would actually deter players. Keep it the current going rate to play. Its still 12.99 a month for UO, right? Keep it like that. Its less than the competition.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

What were they duping so much, hmm?

House and Castle deeds. $$$$$$

 

[CORRECTUO]

House and Castle deeds. $$$$$$

But even then, its not like there were tons of places to place a castle. And getting a housing spot wasnt a simple task either. You had to find a house that was IDOC, wait for it to fall, hope no one else was around to place a house there too. Like I said, no simple task.

So, sure, people could sell those housing deeds, but, in all reality, what good did it do them?

Besides, you had more people selling their already placed houses than you had people duping deeds. why buy a duped deed and there be no guarantee that you'll be able to place it, when you can buy an already placed house that is a sure thing?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You could drop a tower deed on an NPC back then for, what? $250K?

That was A LOT of money in UO back then.

 

[CORRECTUO]

You could drop a tower deed on an NPC back then for, what? $250K?

That was A LOT of money in UO back then.

Simple fix, have the NPC's not buy back deeds. Or, have them bought back for a fraction of the sale price. Or just fix the dupe bug all together. Problem solved.

Ive said time and time again, some things are going to need to be fixed from the old UO, but its not going to be some impossible, insumountable task.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Still, even dupers back then didn't have any real advantage...beyond gold.

All gold gave you was quantity, not quality.

I am not making excuses for the old school dupers, but everyone had pretty much the same stuff back then...it was just a question of how much of it you had.

 

[AesSedai]

- Morgana, I hear ya', aye.
Now, how many others would agree to pay for it, truly pay monthly & for years (if only for to offset the money devoted to evolving what is/has/been/might be - UO) & not even considering the loss they would incur from trying to clean up the code that they evolved (for a reason), even though some entirely illegal emulators have replicated that era; thus the bean-counters dilemma, in regards to making retro-recurrences so (mind you, that is -just- ~ imho)?
So, hopefully most of you will follow my reasoning and why it has been difficult to further segregate and maintain multiple iterances of UO, when it continues to struggle with multiple clients and difficult code in the first place... Classic shard 'ideas' are great - perhaps EA has something 'up their sleeve'. But.. seriously? Imho, I would focus on what works and is already in development. & seriously polish it. Classic shard = play the illegal software stealing and/or emulating other crap. If only EA had the brass that Vivendi's lawyers have...

 

[CORRECTUO]

Still, even dupers back then didn't have any real advantage...beyond gold.

All gold gave you was quantity, not quality.

I am not making excuses for the old school dupers, but everyone had pretty much the same stuff back then...it was just a question of how much of it you had.

Well, even then, you didnt need all that much to survive or be a good player. the most gold I ever had back then was maybe 175k, and that was after I opened up my vendor shop and started selling stuff like potions, bandages, what magic weapons I came across in my dungeon crawls and from huting reds, GM armor, things like that.

The largest house I had was small fieldstone house. It was cramped, but it was mine and I enjoyed it a lot. I was happy with it. this was back when you could have tons of chests locked down in your house. Those were good days.

I remember the night I placed that house. It was just outside the swamps north of Trinsic. A house had gone IDOC and I was camping it. I stayed there until 4 in the morning when it finally dropped. I was lucky. No one else knew this place was falling. I got the house spot and all the stuff that was inside. That was always fun, hunting IDOC houses. I really lucked out once and came across one in Occlo that dropped a chest with a full suit of ranger armor in it. *sigh* Now those were the days.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If only EA had the brass that Vivendi's lawyers have...

Then old school UO fans would have No options whatsoever.


Why is it such a threat to some people if there was to be something other than what they consider to be "the right UO"?

What harm would it do to anyone if old school players, like myself, were on a shard that they enjoyed playing more than where they play now?

Subscriptions in = increased money for EA to spend on neon pixel crack for post AoS players to lock down in their houses.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well, even then, you didnt need all that much to survive or be a good player. the most gold I ever had back then was maybe 175k, and that was after I opened up my vendor shop and started selling stuff like potions, bandages, what magic weapons I came across in my dungeon crawls and from huting reds, GM armor, things like that.

The largest house I had was small fieldstone house. It was cramped, but it was mine and I enjoyed it a lot. I was happy with it. this was back when you could have tons of chests locked down in your house. Those were good days.

I remember the night I placed that house. It was just outside the swamps north of Trinsic. A house had gone IDOC and I was camping it. I stayed there until 4 in the morning when it finally dropped. I was lucky. No one else knew this place was falling. I got the house spot and all the stuff that was inside. That was always fun, hunting IDOC houses. I really lucked out once and came across one in Occlo that dropped a chest with a full suit of ranger armor in it. *sigh* Now those were the days.

You are right...those were the days!

 

[CORRECTUO]

- Morgana, I hear ya', aye.
Now, how many others would agree to pay for it, truly pay monthly & for years (if only for to offset the money devoted to evolving what is/has/been/might be - UO) & not even considering the loss they would incur from trying to clean up the code that they evolved (for a reason), even though some entirely illegal emulators have replicated that era; thus the bean-counters dilemma, in regards to making retro-recurrences so (mind you, that is -just- ~ imho)?
So, hopefully most of you will follow my reasoning and why it has been difficult to further segregate and maintain multiple iterances of UO, when it continues to struggle with multiple clients and difficult code in the first place... Classic shard 'ideas' are great - perhaps EA has something 'up their sleeve'. But.. seriously? Imho, I would focus on what works and is already in development. & seriously polish it. Classic shard = play the illegal software stealing and/or emulating other crap. If only EA had the brass that Vivendi's lawyers have...

Stick with what works? Have you seen the state of UO recently? You talked about rose colored glasses when I spoke of old UO? I think you should take a look in the mirror, because it looks to me like youve got a big old honking pair of rosies on now when youre speaking of the current UO. UO doesnt work now. They can polish the current UO up with all the pretty graphics they want, its still a nonfunctional item grind. The game is shot, and it is because of all of EA's changes.

Crafting, shot.

In game economy, shot.

PvP, shot.

PvM, shot.

Skills, shot.

the whole bloody game, shot.

Its absolutly dominated by dupers, cheaters, gold farmers and items. Did old UO have problems, yes. But they were nowhere as bad as the problems of today. Things have only gotten progressively worse.

As for loss incurred by trying to remake and clean up an classic UO server, that shouldnt cost all that much.

I mean, there are people out there in college making a Burger King salary who are re-writing and re-engineering the old UO code on their home PCs to make free shards (Free shards, as in, they arent making any money off of it at all) while paying to use the server space for those free shards. How come those people can manage to afford to establish their own servers on minimum wage, but it would be financially cripping for EA, a multi-million dollar world wide company, to make their own retro servers?

Hmm? Answer me that, since you seem to have all of the answers, or atleast think you do.

 

[AesSedai]

- The subscriptions you seek = less resources towards the continued evolution of UO... These thing must be accounted for.

I would love to have it all! But that is not very real, eh?

Think about the update latency regarding what we have NOW... then consider what it would take to maintain whatever 'classic idea' wins the glutton of choices... how many more dev.s would it take to maintain that!?
Or- how much would the evolution of the rest of UO suffer if that were to be?
Yes, those 'were the days'.
But UO needs to focus on the days now; unless you can convince me otherwise

UO = evolve, as always... Aye, I hope

 

[AesSedai]

@ CORRECTUO -
a wink and a request:

Pls, consider the evolution of:
UO + internet + cheating + game development & resources to develop games

This 'classic' idea is not simple (unless, perhaps, it is free & stuck-in-time with shortcomings).

SweetDreams n goodnights

 

[Harlequin]

If only EA had the brass that Vivendi's lawyers have...

Vivendi? The same folks that made "Evil Genius"? I love that game, what'd Vivendi do?


Regarding a pre UOR shard, I actually like the idea. Now, I have some fond memories of those times, and some other memories that I am not so fond of. Most of the changes I find made UO alot better. But it would be wonderful to have a choice!

Besides the ruleset etc, perhaps someone could make a checklist of things like events and gifts etc that the classic should also receive? Things like tokens for arties will of course be useless, but the decor ones should be available.

There are alot of free shards out there. The classic ones tend to do pretty well. Most importantly, it's revenue that EA is not earning.

 

[CORRECTUO]

@ CORRECTUO -
a wink and a request:

Pls, consider the evolution of:
UO + internet + cheating + game development & resources to develop games

This 'classic' idea is not simple (unless, perhaps, it is free & stuck-in-time with shortcomings).

SweetDreams n goodnights

Ok, first of all, the cheating that is so rampant today is not because of the internet, its because of the changes that have been made by EA. They opened the door for cheaters to take pretty much full control of the game by making the game so heavily item dependent. That way, dupers can duplicate hundreds and thousands of arifacts, runic tools, etc. And, because the gameplay is so heavily dependent on those items, the game suffers because of it.

the only difference in the internet from 98 and the one of today, more people use it.... and there is tons more porn and useless websites and blogs. Not to mention the fact that there are people who are running free shards with 98 UO software on the internet of today. Soooo, with that in mind, things cant be all that different. /logic

As for game development and resources, I refer you to my point about the Burger King employee with the free shard. If a person with resources as limited as that can run a free retro server, what the bloody hell is stopping EA from doing the same? That is unless EA has less money than a Burger King employee..... which would explain a lot.

So, yes, a classic server (servers) is a simple idea and wouldnt be all that hard to implement. There is nothing stopping EA from doing it.

As for focusing on continuing the trend of lousy expansion after lousy expansion, Yeah, theyve been doing that since AOS, and look what its gotten them. The game is hanging on by a thread. One more pile of garbage expansion will cause that thread to break.

 

[Heartseeker]

Upon further playing the classic shard, I have come to realize the evolution of UO follows another game.

The fast paced game that UO is now, is very much of a Diablo clone now.

You really have to play both to compare, but it's uncanny how UO has become Diablo like; with hot bars and killing your enemies in one or two hits.

The Classic game is a much richer experience; but the UO players that are left on regular shards, are much to spoiled, to put with a game that doesn't give out candy instantly.

 

[Maplestone]

You people spoiled classic UO folk with your fancy GUIs and easy-button ressurrection - I tell ya, it's been all down hill since nethack (ascii tileset and if your character dies, it dies, none of this silly resurrect-and-continue playing - a much richer experience).

 

[Maplestone]

(disclaimer: I'm not opposed to a classic shard ... I'm just very skeptical that an accurate estimate of the redevelopment time and potential audience could be made for the business case; it strikes me as one of those things that would almost have to be a Hallowe'en shard style devs-spend-their-own-time-to-play pet project)

 

[Heartseeker]

What is sad Mapplestone and others, is that this would not take many resources at all.

Some of these shards are being run by a couple of people.

To add further: the player experience is so much richer because money is hard to come buy.

People complain how we need more gold sinks etc.

Well, the classic shards the loot is small and you need so many more skills to start with.

My first char. has at least a dozen skills unlike the 6-7 now in game.

The reason for many skills is that you need to buy everything including regs, and training and weapons cost money also. Food and supplies etc.

Unless you are playing a retro shard now, the difference is unbelievable.

UO was a great game at one time, and now only seems to be a shadow of it's former glory on production shards.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

But why do you feel the need to fight it?

If they did it, and you didn't want to play on it...then you don't. Those of us that do want to play on it don't have that option. Are our subscription fees somehow worth less than yours?

Where is the harm in EA offering an alternative?

There is an answer to that.

You know how you all complain about content like weddings and invasions? And about stuff like the town meetings? And don't bother to deny this; it always been the PvPers who complain about such things.

Your argument, basically, is that such things take away resources from "real issues," by which you mean PvP things. Never mind that, as far as I'm aware anyway, the vast majority of players never set foot in Felucca. (The most convincing proof of that btw is that the manufacturers keep having to make incentives to get people there.)

Setting up yet another shard would actually take away resources from other things, to cater to a small and vocal minority. The argument you all make about weddings and content and town meetings is actually true for something as big as a new shard in a way it isn't true for the stuff you all complain about.

Would you all stand for a classic shard that had all the classic bugs and imbalance issues? (The actual bugs and imbalances would depend upon the era picked for the shard.) No you wouldn't, though I suppose someone is going to say otherwise. If you want proof, just look at Siege. Siege players don't just accept the bugs that are unique to their shard and keep playing. Instead, they come on here and incessantly demand that they be fixed.

Would you all stand for a classic shard that doesn't match your vision of the classic era? No. There will be calls for another classic shard within a month, at most. Though I suppose someone is going to say otherwise.

Will you all stand for missing out on any new content? No you wouldn't, though I suppose someone is going to say otherwise. When the regular shards get something, there will, sooner or later, be calls to have it integrated into the classic shard.

In other words, it'll be just another separate rules set to baby-sit, deal with problems on, and the like.

And that, unlike the stuff that you all complain about, actually will take resources away from other things.

For the record if such a shard were made available and it was post-Trammel (I've long since lost patience with being accused of cheating every time I win a fight), I might actually pop on, see how things are, experience some nostalgia, and maybe slowly work up a secondary character.

So when I fight against this, I am doing so as a potential consumer of it.

However, the mere fact that I'd actually use such a service doesn't mean it'd be good business to provide it. There are plenty of RL services I'd use that would lose lots of money if someone offered them.

Don't worry, though. I have a strong feeling they are going to do this sooner or later. And it'll be a disaster, to one degree or another, when they do.

-Galen's player

 

[Bc-]

...a classic shard wouldn't have Val hammers. It wouldn't even have Luna!!

A classic shard would be a clean slate. It would be a chance for Mythic to do what OSI failed at...to carry on the name of Ultima the way that its creator intended.

Ok you don't care about a black dye tub, what about the 200k that guy makes off of it? What about the 30 million he just duped and released into the economy? YOU might not care, but you can bet someone will, most likely the Trammel side of the shard, and like I said before once they leave the server may survive but with a drastically reduced economy and playerbase. I am not talking about making a server that can just simply survive, I am talking about making a server that will flourish and quite possible be the most populated server.

Scripters, EasyUO. The big problem on UODivinity is that guys press one button and it does their whole combo for them perfectly timed, that is a lot of reason why people don't play that server. I myself have no wish to fight against those type of people, I was a great duelist in the Pre Cast days, I know how to play my toon, but man vs. machine in a timed sequence you have to think that machine will win every time.

And correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe that Runic hammers were a creation of AoS, I remember fighting gimps in factions with blessed extremely accurate vanq runic spears.

The most liberal estimate I've ever seen about how many players would return for a classic shard was about 700, and that was making the ridiculous assumption that every singe player on a particular, PvP-oriented free shard would start paying $15 or so a month (including taxes) to play the game they currently play for free.

I'm sorry but I find your arguement so bias it is even hard to comment on it. Your estimates are just flat out stupid. You have no idea how popular this shard could be, NONE of us do and none of us could even begin to estimate how many players will play there. And although many people talk of a different time frame there is one common theme you have missed, PRE AOS, that is a great start.

The duping back then was trivial. What were they duping so much, hmm? Dye tubs? Vanq weapons?

Gold. Hundreds of millions of gold, it ruined the economy. Eventually ORIGIN deleted a lot of gold, especially on SP and banned a lot of accounts which helped to set the ship straight again, but the economy was never the same. Do not under estimate how important economy is to classic UO. Go back to what I said about UO Community making it such a unique game and link that to the economy. It is a linear relationship.

I just want to make it clear that I am not against a classic server, I am all for it. What I am against is cheating in this game and I just would hate to see this server come up and die so fast because of all the cheaters moving there, and old bugs coming into play. I just want to make sure that if this does happen EA takes their time and does it right, gives it a chance.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Scripters, EasyUO. The big problem on UODivinity is that guys press one button and it does their whole combo for them perfectly timed, that is a lot of reason why people don't play that server. I myself have no wish to fight against those type of people, I was a great duelist in the Pre Cast days, I know how to play my toon, but man vs. machine in a timed sequence you have to think that machine will win every time.

Just had to point out that use of the term "toon," borrowed from some other game, to refer to a UO character is a pretty recent thing. How long have you played again?

And correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe that Runic hammers were a creation of AoS, I remember fighting gimps in factions with blessed extremely accurate vanq runic spears.

You're right, runics, and the "new leathers," predated AoS.

I'm sorry but I find your arguement so bias it is even hard to comment on it. Your estimates are just flat out stupid. You have no idea how popular this shard could be, NONE of us do and none of us could even begin to estimate how many players will play there. And although many people talk of a different time frame there is one common theme you have missed, PRE AOS, that is a great start.

The 700 estimate came from a supporter of Classic Shards. No idea who, I put him on ignore a long time ago and happened to see that estimate one day when I was perusing the boards while not logged in.

Oh and it's "argument." Anyone can make a typo. I've made a lot in my day. In fact I bet every post I've ever made on Stratics has one. Usually not one of those typos that changes the meaning of the post, I hope.

However, it's a good idea to proof-read when you are insulting someone else's intelligence.

Oh, and to call someone's "arguement" biased? Think about it. It's an argument. Of course it's biased. Are all of the pro-Classic Shard arguments non-biased, somehow, just because you agree? Of course they are.

As to the pre-AoS time frame? Yes, that is a common thread. But would the pre-Trammel crowd be happy with a post-Ren shard? No. Would the pre-Publish 16 crowd be happy with a post-Power Scrolls shard? No. And on down the line.

A classic shard is a prescription for wasted resources.

But don't worry, I'm highly confident you all will get your way sooner or later.

Oh...And I'm pretty sure that the popular scripting program that you name in violation of Stratics's rules pre-dated AoS. Maybe I'm wrong though, as I don't script. I know people sure as Hell had something.

-Galen's player

 

[Turdnugget]

A post-Trammel classic shard would be crap.

Those asking/hoping for a classic shard want it PRE-Trammel. We don't want Trammel. Not for the pking or stealing... but it brings people together. They're not off in 4 different worlds and hardly ever see anyone.

Back in the day, you could run through Deceit and see people in the water elemental room, in the room to the left with the lesser skeletons, in the bone knight room working parry/healing/weapon skills, you could find people in the poison pits working healing skill (you would actually get poisoned standing in the poison down there!) people in both lich rooms, people in the back lich room, more people in the Lich Lord room at the very bottom.

If you go there now..Trammel or Felucca, you see nobody... hardly ever unless someone is doing the Neira spawn. Why? It used to be a bumpin' spot, but not anymore. There is no real reward down there. No need to farm LL's for money/items as they suck in the current UO. Back in the day, that's where you went to get fame/high end power/vanq weps/armor + a decent amount of gold.

I don't understand why this would be such a daunting task for EA to accomplish as there are hundreds of player run servers with the old classic UO that are only run by but a few people... and they only do it for free and have a donation box. Imagine what a whole freakin' dev team who gets PAID and receives subscription money could do!

I don't remember there being millions of gold back in the day... I remember when getting a million gold, you suddenly became the Donald Trump of UO. The richest I ever saw anyone back then was maybe, MAYBE 4 million or so.

There was no real need to dupe back then as everyone pretty much had the same items and money didn't buy you anything spectacular. Since you DID lose items upon death and could be looted by ANYONE. The only time vanq weapons and invul armor came out was server down wars.

We're talking about a classic server BEFORE factions. Factions is NOT classic. We're talkinga bout old school Order Chaos fights.

When PvP looked like this...

We want the old O/C system, not factions.

Sad that people feel this is a waste of time to ask for when we've got people asking for more plants and pixel crack. I'm sure a classic shard would have more supporters than those asking for more crack.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

A post-Trammel classic shard would be crap.

Thanks for proving one of my central points in a single, elegant phrase.

-Galen's player

 

[Speedy Orkit]

I simply do not understand WHY we can't have an old school shard. It's not like a lot of coding would be needed. Whip out that old coding, slap it on a server, wham, bam, ready to rock.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

Speak for yourself. Draconi hinted that it could happen (I believe his words were something like "it's been discussed a lot internally, but the main problem is not being able to pinpoint exactly which point in time is considered "classic" by most of those who would want such a shard") not long ago at all. It's no longer an outright "no", it's more of a "we'd like to but we're damned if we have any idea how to impliment it"

Therefore threads like this are entirely relevant, therefore YOU are the troll here.

Edit: Gareth - nice one! You saw 8 minutes into the future with astonishing accuracy

A "Classic Shard" to me would be before the Fame/Karma system was implemented.

 

[Turdnugget]

What do you mean by the fame/karma? There was always been fame/karma hasn't there? I don't get what you're referring to...

 

[ColterDC]

Thing is, scripting and duping hurts current UO far worse than it ever could 'old' UO. Why? Because old UO was not an item based game. Everyone in the game had similar equipment. Items did not determine the outcome of PvP back in the old days. And of course there is speedhacking...but that can be fixed using a server-side speed limit. That is something that should go into a classic shard no doubt.

Just to make sure we're on the same page.

I definately agree that scripting and duping would have a very small impact on a classic shard.

But the cheats that are currently being used by the majority of the PvP trash today would have a severe impact on a classic shard, considering the FFA PvP and full loot ruleset. Much like any of the FPS games out there. The cheaters need to be removed ASAP or your game will suffer (Just look at Fel today.... a ghost town except for a few guilds running every cheat they can find)

If EA could put up a classic shard and at the same time remove all the PvP cheats.... I would be one of the first people to sign up.

But if they DON'T deal with the cheating problem that infests the current version of UO.... the classic shard will be just as dead as the rest of this game.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

The current Reputation/Murder system wasn't the original implementation. There wasn't a grid of titles like we have today. The lowest title was Dread Lord/Lady with the highest title being Glorious Lord/Lady. 5 Murders didn't turn you red... a low karma did (and killing "blue" characters gave you a karma hit while killing red characters gave you karma). A medium-ish/low karma flagged you grey to high karma characters.

The lower your karma, and NPC's would charge you more, and sometimes even refuse you service if say, you were a Dread Lord. High karma got you discounts. NPC's would address you differently and praise you as you passed by, etc. With low karma, NPC's would speak fearfully of you.

NPC's would also talk about powerful items. Like, "Did you hear? Turdnugget is carrying an extremely powerful viking sword." And you could ask NPC's about players.

EDIT: I guess what I really meant was before the Murder/Reputation system.

EDIT #2: For (some) clarity.

 

[Harlequin]

The current Fame/Karma/Murder system wasn't the original implementation. There wasn't a grid of titles like we have today. The lowest title was Dread Lord/Lady with the highest title being Glorious Lord/Lady. 5 Murders didn't turn you red... a low fame/karma did (and killing "blue" characters gave you a fame/karma hit while killing red characters gave you fame/karma). A medium-ish/low fame/karma flagged you grey to high fame/karma characters.

The lower your fame/karma, and NPC's would charge you more, and sometimes even refuse you service if say, you were w Dread Lord. High fame/karma got you discounts. NPC's would address you differently and praise you as you passed by, etc. With low fame/karma, NPC's would speak fearfully of you.

NPC's would also talk about powerful items. Like, "Did you hear? Turdnugget is carrying an extremely powerful viking sword." And you could ask NPC's about players.

EDIT: I guess what I really meant was before the Murder/Reputation system.

Just a bit of clarification, there was no fame/karma split. There was only 1 combined value. I think positive values starts from Honorable and ends at Great Lord, negative starts from Scoundrel and ends at Dread Lord. Near both ends of the spectrum you get to show your best profession skill.

You can turn grey very easily from a couple of stealing attempts or even accidentally attacking your guild mate...Anything more, you 'll turn red. Lots of notos going around hunting greys too.

A feature was added to NPCs so that they would bow to you if you were a Great Lord, they still do that, but less frequently. But the only discount that worked for me at that time was being in the merchant's guild and buying expensive stuff from NPCs.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

Just a bit of clarification, there was no fame/karma split. There was only 1 combined value. I think positive values starts from Honorable and ends at Great Lord, negative starts from Scoundrel and ends at Dread Lord. Near both ends of the spectrum you get to show your best profession skill.

Yep, I edited my post regarding the fame/karma split. They were combined. And you're right, it was Great Lord, not Glorious Lord.

I think you turned red at Dark Lord? (1 step before Dread Lord.)

To me, those were the days. I loved that UO. I remember so many differences between then and now. Like being able to talk while hidden; no Meditation skill; the village idiot NPC's...

 

[Harlequin]

Erm, 1 more thing, please avoid bringing exploits into the discussion to support whether a pre or post era did not have certain exploits. There were exploits pre and post T2A, UO:R, AOS etc.

Neither classic or post ML shards are immune to dupes/speedhacks etc. Any new exploits found on the current shards would likely also be applicable to a classic shard that they implement now, since the best way to implement a classic shard would be to disable parts of the current server engine - eg disable trammel, disable necro/chiv/bushido etc, but the core code would likely still be there eg pet slots, insta log, flagging, housing security, anti dupe measures, anti speedhack measures etc

If they simply implemented a server using the pre UO:R backup tapes, there will be so many exploits, it won't even be funny.

 

[Harlequin]

Yep, I edited my post regarding the fame/karma split. They were combined. And you're right, it was Great Lord, not Glorious Lord.

I think you turned red at Dark Lord? (1 step before Dread Lord.)

To me, those were the days. I loved that UO. I remember so many differences between then and now. Like being able to talk while hidden; no Meditation skill; the village idiot NPC's...

Whoops, i posted a tad too fast

Yes, dark lord is 1 step before dread, but I think you turn red much earlier. I remember turning red at the first level after neutral (grey). I think it was scoundrel, my memory is a bit fuzzy here. But I remember being chased around by notos cause I accidentally warred a guildy. The bunch of us were hunting spiders and my guildy moved in front of the spider just when I double clicked...heh It's not something I am fond of though.

I remember speaking while hidden too! And later on, tab-tab-hide after they implemented no hiding while in combat. Hiding was a crtical skill back then.

Ohh, I also remember being able to get Order and Chaos shields after getting great lord. A precursor to the faction system.

 

[The Home Guild]

All the nay sayers,if you don't like the idea who said you have to play on that "classic shard"?

I think it's a great idea.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

There is an answer to that.

You know how you all complain about content like weddings and invasions? And about stuff like the town meetings?

Please point out any post from me that has ever complained about any of these things. In fact, quite counter to your statement, I can show several posts of mine that speak very highly of such events. Just recently, I posted on the Atlantic forum in defense of the new EMs, and not too long before that I attended a party thrown by the Giovannis in Serpents Hold on Atlantic.

Do not lump me in with those that only play one aspect of UO. I have said since the very beginning of UO that it was events like the very ones that you mention that make it a truly unique game.

Your argument, basically, is that such things take away resources from "real issues," by which you mean PvP things.

Absolutely not.

The only value I see in PvP is how it shaped community. PvP now is nothing but people running around killing one another for no reason other than to talk smack or get powerscrolls.

This is not what PvP in UO was meant to be.

UO was a game of true community where there were both good and evil characters. It was a game where the community had to deal with their own problems, rather than relying on artificial game mechanics...unrealistic mechanics at that.

Tell me, if you are interested in true immersion...what prevents someone from running someone else through with a sword on Trammel?? Hmmm?

That, to me, is just ridiculous. It took a huge degree of realism out of the game.

Would you all stand for a classic shard that had all the classic bugs and imbalance issues?

I would expect, unless it were free, for the devs to provide just as much support for a classic shard as they do for any other shard. But to further address this point, we would simply be trading one set of bugs and imbalances for another...so what's the difference?

Would you all stand for a classic shard that doesn't match your vision of the classic era? No. There will be calls for another classic shard within a month, at most. Though I suppose someone is going to say otherwise.

So what you are saying here is...'If you cannot please everyone, then don't bother at all' right?

Well...they are not pleasing everyone with the current shards they have...so should they close those down as well?

Will you all stand for missing out on any new content?

It was all the new "content" that brought need for Classic shard to light in the first place. So yes, I would likely be very happy not getting things like Luna, and neon orange hair dyes, and weapons with ridiculous stats, and armor that costs hundreds of millions of gold, etc.

For the record if such a shard were made available and it was post-Trammel (I've long since lost patience with being accused of cheating every time I win a fight), I might actually pop on, see how things are, experience some nostalgia, and maybe slowly work up a secondary character.

Any classic shard made that included Trammel would be an utter waste of time. In fact, Trammel was the first, and the largest, nail in UO's coffin.

So when I fight against this, I am doing so as a potential consumer of it.

Sounds to me like you are afraid that all of the nice items you have collected over the years will suddenly become worthless. If a classic shard caught on, then everyone would have to give up their neon dyed "uber" gear and their "illusion" houses and play the game on an equal footing with everyone else...and I think that makes some people very nervous.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

If any classic shard that would include Trammel would be a waste of time, then why are you posting in a thread that's specifically about a post-Trammel "classic" shard?

Sounds to me like you are afraid that all of the nice items you have collected over the years will suddenly become worthless. If a classic shard caught on, then everyone would have to give up their neon dyed "uber" gear and their "illusion" houses and play the game on an equal footing with everyone else...and I think that makes some people very nervous.

I love statements like this about me. Very telling, though not about its subject.

*chuckles*

Have fun out there; especially after you all finally get your way.

-Galen's player

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I love statements like this about me. Very telling, though not about its subject.

Funny, that was my exact thought when I read this from you...

You know how you all complain about content like weddings and invasions? And about stuff like the town meetings?