[UO Herald] FoF: Chrissay's First FoF!

[Larisa]

The only question which wasn't common knowledge was that spring cleaning one and the answer was basically "Maybe, but not soon".

I should really stop reading these things, complete waste of time.

As Kelmo stated, it's NOT common knowledge to EVERYONE. Not EVERYONE reads UOHall or even ANY of Stratics. WE Are the lucky ones, WE have a fountain of information available to us, SOME people might only LOOK at the UO Stratics Main page and get all their information from that...which is why even though ZigZag has his Feed post UO Herald news directly to UOHall, I STILL have to post it to Stratics Main because there are ALOT of ppl that don't come HERE.

:/

 

[AirmidCecht]

- Well said, AirmidCecht; especially these parts:

... [UO Devs.] I feel for ya, it's not possible to please everyone...
*smiles*
...
MYUO... is a good opportunity to take those answers from many threads and condense it down to that FoF with a few more details that relate to each other.
When it comes to the main UO site, the UOHerald, the bulk of the [most pertinent] information would best serve everyone there, including in the FoF...
Stratics and other fan sites do a great job of providing information [as well as presenting peculiarities 'n oddities]...
so thank you for taking the time to visit us all and answer our many questions...
You guys are [definitely] appreciated!

- Sorry, but I [ad]just [felt the need] to add a little something, although I did enjoy the original just as much

That made me smile and giggle a lil. Nice job editing, I liked it though I may forward more posts of mine to you for future sparkle. *hugs*

 

[Sakkarah_]

Why was this set up like this? If the roll determines that a scroll should drop, one should drop. A drop in Tram shouldn't be determined by a roll for the Fel ruleset, escpecially considering Tram scrolls can only be as high as .5. It's no wonder Fel drops are 20-1 over Tram. We're getting screwed because there are no PS's for Tram champs. So not only do Fel champs take less than half the time of a Tram champ, and SoT's are 2x as high point wise, but Tram champs are getting half the number of scroll drops period because of a Fel rule.

You are assuming that passing the first step (roll 1) guarantees you a reward which isn't the case. You could compare it to a gameshow where millions apply but only a handful are selected. From that handful only 1 or 2 will walk away with a prize.

Trammel isn't being punished by Felucca rule. Both facets are under the same rules, being the champ spawn rules. Whether you're in Fel or in Tram, once you pass roll one, there is still a 50/50 chance that roll 2 will be 105. Meaning that even if I gave you that 105 in Tram, it still wouldn't be a SoT. So Trammel is not getting less SoTs, it's just not getting the 105s. But the total number (as deemed by the RNG) is the same for both facets.

If you're saying you would like Trammel to receive the 105, while Trammel doesn't get powerscrolls I somehow highly doubt Feluccans would object to it. But considering the interest for 105s is slim to none, aside from annoying you thinking this could have been a SoT instead, what will that have really accomplished for you? If you are saying that if the roll was for a 105 in Trammel, a SoT should be dropped instead, then you would be making the Trammel drop rate greater than Felucca's, which wouldn't be right.

Yes, Felucca gets SoTs with twice the points and can get doubles with protection. But you can also get massively raided during the spawn, murdered by random PKs and/or the very players who helped you work the spawn to begin with, or have your scroll stolen by thieves. How long a spawn takes is circumstancial. Ilshenar spawns may have Paragons, with decent numbers you can still hammer through it very quickly. In Felucca, I've seen my fair share of spawns dragging well over 2 hours because there was so much fighting and raiding going on.

 

[Heartseeker]

I agree with Connor.

I didn't know that the scroll drop rate was half in Tram.

That would explain my success in Fell.

That needs to be changed, or have the intensities go to the same level as Fell.

These are the kind of things that are a turn off about the game.

 

[Sir_Bolo]

Translation of Regine's post for Connor,Nusair, Heartseeker, and all others who have no idea about simple statistics (nothing to be ashamed about it, most of the world's population doesn't, as demonstrated by the success of lottos or casinos):

1) The drop rate of Scrolls of Transcendence on Trammel and Felucca is EXACTLY THE SAME

2) The TOTAL drop rate of all kinds of scrolls (SoTs and 105s COMBINED) on Felucca is double the rate on Trammel, but HALF OF THEM ARE 105s - leading back to point 1 for SoTs

Note in small print: this assuming that monster fame has no effect on the drop rate - in that case, drops on Felucca will be slightly faster thanks to the 30% fame bonus

Note for Regine: this will teach you better than exposing the code on U.Hall: the average poster will understand it backwards anyway

 

[Connor_Graham]

1) The drop rate of Scrolls of Transcendence on Trammel and Felucca is EXACTLY THE SAME

No, it's not. Fel champs can be completed in less than half the time a Tram champ can. I understood perfectly well the math behind it. Maybe you should refrain from condescending in the future. You're not very good at it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yes, Felucca..... can get doubles with protection.

That's double by itself, as I said.

How long a spawn takes is circumstancial.

You're not serious are you? A Barracoon in Fel can take 10 minutes or less with only a couple of people. It takes at least twice that on the Tram side. Half the amount of time, double the number of scrolls time wise and double the number of scrolls with Protection and you now have 4-1 drops for Fel vs Tram.

once you pass roll one, there is still a 50/50 chance that roll 2 will be 105. Meaning that even if I gave you that 105 in Tram, it still wouldn't be a SoT

That was exactly my point. Even IF you get the roll that says you get a roll 2, it could turn out to roll for a 105, which means you get nothing in Tram. I don't want PS's in Tram. What I do want is a fair shot at SoT's, which this system is not designed to do in any way. 105's may not be of much, if any, value, but exactly how much is a .1 Taste ID worth?

As things are set up now, the drops are 4-1 in the Fel champs, with rewards that are guaranteed to be twice the value of what drops in Tram. That works out to a Tram only player having to put in 8 times as much effort for the same reward.

Hardly fair if you ask me. Twice or even 3 times as much I could see, but not 8 times. That's a system that encourages discouragement. As I said, Tram champs have already emptied out. People are tired of wasting their time. Personally, I've put in well over 40 hours of beating on champ spawn creatures, and to date I've gotten 3 SoT's. That's literally thousands of creatures killed for a lousy 3 drops.

 

[Nok]

did the other Rep get fired already ?
is EA secretly in competition with Mc'D's on employee turnover rates ?

Chrissay's previous project ended, and has been moved over to the Mythic's community team to work together -with- Joanne. Both DAoC and WAR have more than one community coordinator, Mythic is doing the same for UO... doubling the number of CCs for UO.

 

[Maplestone]

This gift horse has nice teeth

 

[Tina Small]

You are assuming that passing the first step (roll 1) guarantees you a reward which isn't the case. You could compare it to a gameshow where millions apply but only a handful are selected. From that handful only 1 or 2 will walk away with a prize.

Trammel isn't being punished by Felucca rule. Both facets are under the same rules, being the champ spawn rules. Whether you're in Fel or in Tram, once you pass roll one, there is still a 50/50 chance that roll 2 will be 105. Meaning that even if I gave you that 105 in Tram, it still wouldn't be a SoT. So Trammel is not getting less SoTs, it's just not getting the 105s. But the total number (as deemed by the RNG) is the same for both facets.

If you're saying you would like Trammel to receive the 105, while Trammel doesn't get powerscrolls I somehow highly doubt Feluccans would object to it. But considering the interest for 105s is slim to none, aside from annoying you thinking this could have been a SoT instead, what will that have really accomplished for you? If you are saying that if the roll was for a 105 in Trammel, a SoT should be dropped instead, then you would be making the Trammel drop rate greater than Felucca's, which wouldn't be right.

Yes, Felucca gets SoTs with twice the points and can get doubles with protection. But you can also get massively raided during the spawn, murdered by random PKs and/or the very players who helped you work the spawn to begin with, or have your scroll stolen by thieves. How long a spawn takes is circumstancial. Ilshenar spawns may have Paragons, with decent numbers you can still hammer through it very quickly. In Felucca, I've seen my fair share of spawns dragging well over 2 hours because there was so much fighting and raiding going on.

Regine, I think your answers here just put the nail in the coffin for most people deciding whether or not to bother with the non-Fel champ spawns.

It just simply isn't worth it unless you have massive amounts of time to play, plenty of insurance gold, lots of patience and optimism, a burning desire for something new to sell on a vendor, and friends who have nothing better to do with their time and gold. For everyone else who thought this would be fun and a great idea but aren't willing to go to Fel, they're far better off spending their time actually working on skills instead of hoping to get an SoT they can use and saving up their gold to buy those replicas.

Even with just 3-4 people doing the spawn, splitting up the gold that drops at the end just doesn't make doing these worthwhile after you deduct what you probably lost in insurance money. And if you get more people to help, then it really isn't worth it--smaller chance at a reward and less gold to split at the end. (The champ loot hardly even merits mentioning it's so pathetic.)

I've been trying very hard the last couple of months to stay positive about what the development team is working on and be understanding of the fact that you have limited resources to work with. I will also gladly admit that I have enjoyed fighting the invasion mobs. However, to be honest with you, the faction side of the invasions leaves much to be desired. And this change has also turned out to be very disappointing. The non-Fel champ spawn side of it feels like nothing more than a crumb tossed over the fence at the folks who won't fall (yet again) for another attempt at luring them to Fel to do things.

 

[Connor_Graham]

This gift horse has nice teeth

If you call 5 cavities, 2 chipped teeth, 4 impacted wisdom teeth, and massive gingivitis nice teeth, then yeah, it's got great teeth.

 

[AirmidCecht]

*sighs*

I have never felt lured to Felucca. If I want to go, I go. I know that if I go there is a risk so the reward should be greater. Notice I did not say the reward is greater therefore I go to Fel. Slight difference? Maybe not but rings true to me.

For years the non pvp facets have had champ spawns that were not very active. Sure we hosted one for our community on LS every Friday for who knows how long now and even then we prayed for Baracoon for our group of young and vets. Now you can go to almost any of the 7 champs and fight a real fight that ramps up from meh to holy paragon dragon batman! So if anything I feel lured back to the Ilsh and Tokuno champs. The reward for some is the battle with the bonus being a replica.

I've done the champs multiple times this week with nary an sot and yet I am having a time I tell ya. It's been fun. Plain old multiple parties and guilds fighting together fun. There is a bug fix in publish 58? Thank you dev team for addressing it, I'm not waiting til then to have more fun. *smiles*

 

[canary]

I am ok with the hard gains in spawn as far as rewards, I personally like the feeling of 'hitting the lottery', so to speak.

 

[Surgeries]

Basara, do me a favor and get over yourself. I will learn this lesson when you learn that people get paid to perform a job correctly and adequately, ESPECIALLY in the service industry (SHOCKING!)

Now...I am going to step in here and remind you very gently, canary...

These people that should perform flawlessly, and provide you exactly what you think they should provide, and if they don't, by God...you will give them their "What For", and really tell them where their priorities SHOULD be...

They are humans...just...like...you.

Look down, canary...at your feet...I mean it...do it now, please.

What did you see?

Hopefully a pair of human feet? If you are luckier than those that have less than two.

I am betting you did not see the sign of absolute perfection in a human being...the awe inspiring, oft sought

"Shoes of Jesus"

I am going to let you in on a little secret canary...

You make mistakes too. We just don't get to take ALL of your oversights, shortfalls, imperfections, lack of foresight, thoughtlessness, selfishness, bad manners, and other less than desirable attributes, and rip you apart in public for them, anonymously nonetheless.
We know...you like just about everything about you, huh? You don't mess up at work, and if you do it is NEVER something as disastrous as giving less information than a person paying forty cents a day to play game got on a Five on Friday...right? I mean...you don't, do you?

The dev team doesn't even know the diff between the Totem of the Void and Spirit of the Totem (yes, this really happened).

... and that's HARDLY a tough question.

I would be willing to bet that if we WERE able to access your work info, that you have made mistakes AT LEAST this grievous in areas far more serious...than pixel definitions in a video game.
You sure would find errors that I have made that were way, way worse...and I disburse just about 40 Million dollars a year in payroll, in 4 states, to 1,000 employees, with a staff of two. I make plenty of mistakes, indeed.

The one I try to avoid at all costs is to think it is everyone else that is making the mistakes, and using a telescope, instead of a mirror, to find fault.

I'm simply asking that they know what they are talking about and invest some actual energy into getting the questions answered that the majority of the playerbase seem to ask. After all, it IS what the community person gets paid to do.

Finally...the first part of that comment does have validity. It is something i am sure they are working on, and indeed, there is always room for improvement...even for you..(SHOCKING)
Why don't you submit a Five on Friday question about why they don't answer more questions that a majority of the playerbase wants to know about...or exactly HOW they determine which questions to answer on FoF?

Wait...if they do things YOUR way...a question like that couldn't be answered in a FoF...because only YOU, and may two or three others actually ASKED it...that wouldn't be a majority...although to YOU that seems like a really IMPORTANT question and concern...one that compels you to come onto an anonymous forum and give such harsh criticism of the FoF, and more importantly, the PEOPLE that put it up for this week.

Do you grasp the quandary that they face?

Well...even if you don't...just remember...you aren't perfect, and they aren't perfect.

Do unto others as you think they would have you do unto them. (The Spirit of the Golden Rule)

In other words...say your piece, but please...just be nice about it...please?

And...if you consider what you posted nice, I am pretty sure you may have a skewed view of what "Nice" is. Really. I'm just sayin'...

 

[canary]

Awesome, I think surgeries is in love with me by all that time he devoted to me in his post... and you know what?
















I TOTALLY don't blame him!

edit: as a side note, surgeries, this is probably the nicest post I have _ever_ seen by you. which is no slam, just sayin'.

 

[HD2300]

Trammel isn't being punished by Felucca rule. Both facets are under the same rules, being the champ spawn rules. Whether you're in Fel or in Tram, once you pass roll one, there is still a 50/50 chance that roll 2 will be 105. Meaning that even if I gave you that 105 in Tram, it still wouldn't be a SoT. So Trammel is not getting less SoTs, it's just not getting the 105s. But the total number (as deemed by the RNG) is the same for both facets.
...
Yes, Felucca gets SoTs with twice the points and can get doubles with protection.

Is the first roll based on
(a) a flat percent chance e.g. 1% for every creature regardless of whether it is a slime or a silver serpent? or
(b) fame/karma based. e.g. it is more likely to drop off a silver serpent than a slime, and thus also more likely to drop in Fel as per 10th Anniversary items because monsters in Fel have more fame/karma?

SoTs in Fel are ~3 times better on average (+0.8 average) than SoTs that drop in Tram (+0.3 average) and drop at least twice as much because of protection.

Risk vs. Reward is better in Fel which is fair enough, but maybe Time vs. Reward for Tram regarding only SoTs and replicas is too much of a grind considering Tram doesnt get any powerscrolls.

 

[phantus]

As far as the drop rate in Fel vs Tram, that has been answered by myself and others in various threads. The drop rate is designed to be the same. The difference is Felucca gets 105s whereas Trammel doesn't. So there are 3 rolls being performed. The first one to determine whether or not killing a non-boss monster will give a scroll. If yes, a 2nd roll is done to decide if that scroll will be a 105 or a SoT. In Felucca, the player will receive whichever scroll was determined by the 2nd roll. In Trammel, if that roll landed on a 105, no scroll is given. The 3rd roll determines which skill scroll it will be and how many points it will give (for SoTs).

Why is it I get more scrolls in fel? Please don't tell me it's the RNG favoring me because I'm not the only one that has noticed it. There have been many posts about this...let's call it phenomena happening. If there is no difference in the code why do so many people claim it's not?


For Connor;

One thing you have to realize is this change seems geared more towards vitalizing fel rather than a gift to the few tram based spawns. All the easy spawns are in T2A which we don't get in tram and the hardest ones are in illshenar. The people who gain the most benefit from this publish are the people who did the spawns prior to the implementation. Regine is going to take care of her crowd and I wouldn't expect anything different. Why else does fel get .6 to 1 point scrolls instead of .1 to 1 scrolls? I can see the reason for the chance to get them higher but not for the double value. Especially since anyone can run over and kill spawn up to lvl 3 without being raided and farm them. It's nothing more than a come to fel incentive.

I have been much on the fence on this publish because I have advocated for a reward to the champ spawns in illshen/etc lands for a very long time but I most assuredly believe the implementation is lacking and could have been done better.

 

[Sir_Bolo]

No, it's not. Fel champs can be completed in less than half the time a Tram champ can. I understood perfectly well the math behind it. Maybe you should refrain from condescending in the future. You're not very good at it.

OK, as you pointed out I made a mistake in my post: I should have written "drop chance" instead of "drop rate".

The chance to drop a SoT when killing a mob on Trammel-ruleset spawns is exactly the same as on Felucca, according to the math in Regine's post.

The actual "drop rate" of SoTs (number of scrolls dropped over time) may be higher on Felucca because you can kill monsters faster, and because the Virtue of Justice doubles the drops.

For the first point I say adjust the Trammel-ruleset spawns so that the monsters are more convenient to kill (e.g. faster spawn, closer packing, more convenient locations).

For the second point I say tough luck - the Virtue of Justice is meant as a reward for blue PvPers (I know it's too easily exploited, but that was the design anyway).

I still don't see why based on this Trammel-ruleset facets should get a higher base "drop chance" for SoTs than Felucca though, which is what you are asking for.

I will do my better to only be condescending in the future when I post 100% correct information...

 

[Basara]

Regine, are severely mistaken in your assumption of difficulties of Champion Spawns, Felucca vs. Trammel ruleset shards. This is how...

1. ONLY the Oaks spawn can be done quicker in Ilshenar, than Felucca, because of the lack of creatures agressive towards all characters, and all the Forest Lord creatures are easy kills (heck, the ethereal warriors, even Oaks himself, will rez you, so no need to go far for a rez). ANY other spawn can take a long time, given conditions, on ANY Facet - but on average, the non-Fel ones take longer.



Examples:

• Felucca: Raids war back and forth
• Ilshenar (Twisted Weald): Most satyrs & cu sidhes being paragon will bring advancement of this spawn to a screeching halt. I've seen 5 people with greater dragons fail to advance this spawn past 12 candles in 4 hours work, after working themselves into an all-paragon corner and unable to kill the paragons quickly enough.
• Ilshenar (other than Oaks & The Twisted Weald): Massive Paragon spawn slows advancement through mass-kills of the spawn fighters. I've seen groups of 10+ people wiped out by two or more (I've seen as many as FOUR at once!) of the following spawning paragon simultaneously in close proximity, at their respective spawns: 2 Lich Lords, 2 succubi, 2 Poison Elementals, 2 Greater Dragons. I've seen it take a combined 20-50 deaths (including pets) from the hunters just to attempt to get their corpses back, and eliminate the paragons - taking 30-60 minutes. WORSE, these can wander in DURING the champ, and Neira even SUMMONS lich lords (often paragon) DURING the fight with her, and typically the corpses are so high it's hard to cut the bones to prevent the spawns.
• Special Ilshenar BONUS GRIEF: Dragons, both normal and Greater, spawn in the Ilshenar Valor Spawn area. Similarly, poison elementals spawn naturally in the Humility area. If EITHER of these spawn Paragon, they can cause mass death - especially at a spawn for the opposed slayer.
• Tokuno & Malas (especially the Bedlam spawn): creatures at the two highest stages are hard to kill NORMALLY as solo fights - in groups, the carnage they inflict is incredible (add in the confined space for the Bedlam spawn, and the result is, well... bedlam). These are tougher, without paragons, than any of the others WITH paragons. Even the Labyrinth requires passing through a gauntlet that is many times dangerous than the worst raiding guild, filled with overpowered named creatures, traps that spawn even MORE named creatures (the drakes and the elementals), and is every bit the confusing deathtrap that its namesake was (and frankly, an overhead map is worth less than Theseus' thread). Worse, unlike the other spawns, there are no safe places to "run to the edge of the spawn" in the two Malas spawns to rez your fellow spawners.

2. Your assertion that raids make the Felucca champs longer is seemingly based on the fallacy that people will be staying for the whole fight. The Raiders will NOT be there from 2 candles. Similarly, many people that are there for the items, and that do not care for the skulls or the gold, will simply retreat and let the raiders HAVE the spawn, staying on the sub-server at a distance (or quickly running to drop off their SoT, then returning), and wait for a possible drop from the boss death at a distance. Even more so than before, it is unlikely that the early combatants will stay for the end, unless trying to get a specific drop that is a "loot from corpse" one - in other words, the deco drops.


You really need to convince the devs that they should change the drop system to only check for 105s in Fel, and instead of voiding the "105" drops in Trammel rules; and make all positive scroll checks in the latter produce SoT.

In other words:
A. Check for a Scroll Drop
B: If in Fel, go to the SoT vs. 105 decision tree; otherwise proceed immediately to SoT type determination.
C. Type of scroll is determined.

 

[Connor_Graham]

It's nothing more than a come to fel incentive.

I agree. This fact is as obvious as a punch in the nose. They tried to hide it by adding to the Tram spawn as well so they wouldn't have the same stink they have with PS's, but didn't do so well. It's blatant that this was just another prize given (along with more profit in gold in a single drop since items like the Lt. Sash are selling for upwards of 60mil along with the 8x higher SoT rates at 150k+ gold per point) to the Fel spawn guilds.

I have been much on the fence on this publish because I have advocated for a reward to the champ spawns in illshen/etc lands for a very long time but I most assuredly believe the implementation is lacking and could have been done better.

Word. I was on the fence too, but I fell off once I realized the math behind it all. Now my ass hurts.

 

[Uriah Heep]

In other words:
A. Check for a Scroll Drop
B: If in Fel, go to the SoT vs. 105 decision tree; otherwise proceed immediately to SoT type determination.
C. Type of scroll is determined.

/signed

Why not drop the 105s that no one uses or wants, and completely skip "B" altogether.
Better yet, put the 0.6 - 1.0 scrolls in Ilsh as well, and let "B" determine the intensity, (from 1-10) and then proceed to C.
Heck, 105s are left layin on the ground, you can pick em up on the bank floors...

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

You guys are crazy. Quit nitpicking and enjoy the rewards. I have gotten quite a few nice replicas from the "useless Ilsh spawns" that some of you are whining about.

From giving out absolutely NOTHING, you can get items that can fetch you tens of millions of gold. How in hell is that a token benefit? Seriously, get a reality check.

Also, my team does some of the trammel spawns pretty damn fast. And unlike in fel, we can do spawns all day long. In fel, no one will dare do a spawn during PRIME TIME unless they have massive numbers of people online. And it almost always turns into a massive battle.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

1. ONLY the Oaks spawn can be done quicker in Ilshenar, than Felucca, because of the lack of creatures agressive towards all characters

Their not aggressive towards all characters on any facet, the facet doesn't determine that. Karma does.

The non fel champs go quicker because people are there on PvM templates.

I've seen 5 people with greater dragons fail to advance this spawn past 12 candles in 4 hours work, after working themselves into an all-paragon corner and unable to kill the paragons quickly enough.

Thats not down to the facet, thats down to the rather sad fact that most PvMers don't know how to PvM and think greater dragons will carry them through any situation. The same way theres always one guy corpse skinning Rikktor and putting it's weakest resist up.

I've seen it take a combined 20-50 deaths

That is absurd, no one would even try if they were that crap and a major calling of BS on you for your apparent sitting watching & counting of these 50 deaths.

Even the Labyrinth requires passing through a gauntlet that is many times dangerous than the worst raiding guild, filled with overpowered named creatures, traps that spawn even MORE named creatures (the drakes and the elementals), and is every bit the confusing deathtrap that its namesake was (and frankly, an overhead map is worth less than Theseus' thread). Worse, unlike the other spawns, there are no safe places to "run to the edge of the spawn" in the two Malas spawns to rez your fellow spawners.

This is complete nonsense. You don't get shut out of labyrinth, you can be shut out of a spawn in fel. Theres a healer outside. It's a linear path not a maze. I think you need to study that worthless map because theres only one path through. There are several res spots on top of which there are several rooms which can be sealed off from spawn for the same purpose. The named drake you consider overpowered is still several times weaker than fully trained greater dragons that you would face in fel.

[/LIST]2. Your assertion that raids make the Felucca champs longer is seemingly based on the fallacy that people will be staying for the whole fight.

More nonsense, who the hell are you to say what shes basing her thoughts on. Most people from Atlantic know she ran a champ spawn guild here for Idk how long but over 6 years.

I really hate it when people take a simple statement and re analyze it into something it didn't say.

The Raiders will NOT be there from 2 candles.

So what, most of the fel spawns are done for the fight more than the spawn.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Quit nitpicking and enjoy the rewards.

I would. If I had any.

I have gotten quite a few nice replicas from the "useless Ilsh spawns" that some of you are whining about.

Funny how it's always the ones that happened to get a good run with the RNG that tell everyone else to shut up and enjoy what they've gotten. Sorry, but you're in the minority. Most everyone else hasn't gotten jack ****.

From giving out absolutely NOTHING, you can get items that can fetch you tens of millions of gold. How in hell is that a token benefit? Seriously, get a reality check.

Who said it was? Seriously, you should quit pointing fingers and realize you're not the norm. Most players didn't happen to get a lucky streak with the RNG. I'm sure those Fel champ guilds are laughing all the way to the bank, seeing as they're pretty much the only ones that are getting these drops. It's easy to stack the odds in your favor when spawns can be chained back to back, with no wait time in between, and in half the time or less than any on the Tram side. Funny how the only replicas that I've seen for sale on the shard are stacked next to dozens of SoT's, which are stacked on the same vendors as PS's.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The non fel champs go quicker because people are there on PvM templates.

I won't comment on the rest of your post, but this statement is vastly incorrect. Fel champs can be done in half the time or less.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The only time fel champs go quick is if their not raided. That rarely happens.

 

[Sakkarah_]

Ok, I think there is one great misunderstanding happening here. Champs spawns in Fel vs Tram were never meant to be equal. Champs spawns ARE an incentive for people to go to Felucca and have been from their inception. The recent additions weren't meant to balance the Tram and Fel spawns but simply give second wind to a system that was becoming stale after 6+ years.

This time however, the rewards were also added in Trammel so that the hardcore Trammel players wouldn't feel completely excluded as had been the case with the Powerscrolls. The rest of the "systems" meaning Protection and double resources (in this case double points) in Felucca were respected. If the latter 2 incentives are attracting people to Felucca, then the champ spawns are fulfilling their purpose. But at least now, you have a reason to actually do the Tram spawns, unlike before.

Some of you may find that Paragons make Tram spawn longer to complete. Consider it your "risk" for doing the spawn in "safety". Also keep in mind that Trammel has 4 additional spawns, each of them dropping unique and decorative items that Felucca will never get.

I will concede that the SoT drop rate in Trammel seems lower than it should be even though it has been coded to be the same as Felucca (minus the 105s). So this is being looked into along with the other couple issues stated in my previous posts.

Was forgetting to answer a recurring question! The SoTs aren't given based on the monster's fame. Everytime you kill a champ spawn creature, you have a chance at a scroll, regardless of fame and difficulty. On each monster death, a roll is performed.

I hope that clarifies things.

Sak

 

[Uriah Heep]

Champs spawns in Fel vs Tram were never meant to be equal. The recent additions weren't meant to balance the Tram and Fel spawns

'Nuff said.

Now that we know, I can sign off on this...I really *did* misunderstand the intent, I reckon

 

[T'Challa]

Yes, Felucca gets SoTs with twice the points and can get doubles with protection. But you can also get massively raided during the spawn, murdered by random PKs and/or the very players who helped you work the spawn to begin with, or have your scroll stolen by thieves. How long a spawn takes is circumstancial. Ilshenar spawns may have Paragons, with decent numbers you can still hammer through it very quickly. In Felucca, I've seen my fair share of spawns dragging well over 2 hours because there was so much fighting and raiding going on.

Connor and the rest of Trammel's residents will *never* understand this.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I will concede that the SoT drop rate in Trammel seems lower than it should be.........So this is being looked into

This was my point. Thanks for looking into it.

 

[AirmidCecht]

This time however, the rewards were also added in Trammel so that the hardcore Trammel players wouldn't feel completely excluded as had been the case with the Powerscrolls. The rest of the "systems" meaning Protection and double resources (in this case double points) in Felucca were respected. If the latter 2 incentives are attracting people to Felucca, then the champ spawns are fulfilling their purpose. But at least now, you have a reason to actually do the Tram spawns, unlike before.

YES

Some of you may find that Paragons make Tram spawn longer to complete. Consider it your "risk" for doing the spawn in "safety". Also keep in mind that Trammel has 4 additional spawns, each of them dropping unique and decorative items that Felucca will never get.

YES. Again thank you.

I will concede that the SoT drop rate in Trammel seems lower than it should be even though it has been coded to be the same as Felucca (minus the 105s). So this is being looked into along with the other couple issues stated in my previous posts.

YES! You have now completed the triple threat version of uohall posting! You *win*the "I have been honest and clear of our intentions as well as conceding a point to be looked into" award. Please pick up your uhall artifact from the man screaming behind the door emoticon.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The only time fel champs go quick is if their not raided. That rarely happens.

Maybe on YOUR shard. The large champ guilds on other shards don't have to worry about it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yes, Felucca gets SoTs with twice the points and can get doubles with protection. But you can also get massively raided during the spawn, murdered by random PKs and/or the very players who helped you work the spawn to begin with, or have your scroll stolen by thieves. How long a spawn takes is circumstancial. Ilshenar spawns may have Paragons, with decent numbers you can still hammer through it very quickly. In Felucca, I've seen my fair share of spawns dragging well over 2 hours because there was so much fighting and raiding going on.

Connor and the rest of Trammel's residents will *never* understand this.

You'll "never" understand that we understand it just fine. We also understand that 2 hour fights are few and far between. We also understand that by adding more numbers in order to complete Tram champs in the same amount of time it would take a Fel champ does nothing but make the chances of actually getting something go down to nearly nil.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

Not too enthusiastic about the FOF this week. The majority of it is common knowledge. UO installed without a hitch and ran just fine on my beta of Win 7. The only problem UO had was the client.exe loader wouldn't terminate so I had to manually close it through task manager. Overall, a decent OS compared to Vista and what we should have got when we got Vista.

The spring cleaning... Well I'm not too entirely sure why people ask silly questions like that anyway. Why not just let the devs surprise us every once in awhile.

The rest of it.. Been answered time and time again.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Maybe on YOUR shard. The large champ guilds on other shards don't have to worry about it.

I'm on Atlantic, GL, Europa & LS & they all raid and get raided. 2+ hour fights are pretty common.

It's pretty obvious that tram rule set spawns get done faster on so many fronts. For fel spawns winning/losing the fight has to be taking into account for pvp guilds so no one is spawning with 3 people which means waiting for people to get on. Not to mention everyones in factions so no one is going to risk going in stat loss over something dumb.

Where as in Ilsh etc you can just turn up whenever, their being done continuously. You also get bards at ilsh ones making them go faster and a lot more tamers. Most fel spawns are done by archers and necro mages. At least on 'MY' shards.

Regardless of whichever you believe, what does it matter? / Why is it even being discussed? You still have to go there and grind your scrolls out like everyone else. It's just a case of prefference, for SoT's I do fel ones, for replicas I do Ilsh/tok ones, because thats the best use of time for each thing respectively imo.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Where as in Ilsh etc you can just turn up whenever, their being done continuously.

Maybe on "your" shards, but Pac's are empty pretty much all day long.

Regardless of whichever you believe, what does it matter? / Why is it even being discussed?

Because the Tram champs have turned out to be pretty much a grand waste of time. As Sak has even admitted herself, the champ additions were something added as yet another carrot for Fel (when will the Devs ever learn that carrots don't and won't work?) while the addition to the Tram champs were just something tossed in as a bone so the Tram only players wouldn't have anything to pancake about. It's turned out to be that the drop rate is 8-1, with drops in Tram being so few and far between that it's, as I said, a waste of time. Basically a new multi billion gold commodity was added to Fel, and to the same people that were already doing champs, with a tiny sliver of a bone tossed in as an attempt to appease what is well known as the majority of the UO playerbase.

Guess what.....we didn't swallow it. The LEAST that could be done is to do something about the SoT drop rate, which she's already admitted needs to be looked at. That in itself is enough to justify the discussion.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Well I can't exactly help it if you choose to play somewhere quiet =/ and nor can the devs.

Atlantic had a ton of people cycling the non fel champs last night.

I don't see how they can be a grand waste of time most people I know have had more replicas from the tram ones than the fel ones and she already said theres ones unique to tram just like theres ones unique to fel spawns. Maybe thats down to them being farmed much more on volume shards, but oh well w/e.

 

[Maplestone]

Connor and the rest of Trammel's residents will *never* understand this.

There's understanding and then there's agreement

Although I'm no fan of lures into Fel, I actually have no problem with a mismatch around champ spawns - for me, I'd rather go to humility spawn and find people looking to have fun rather than min/maxing farming efficiency - they're less likely to take offense to my presence. Besides, as long as Fel has a monopoly on most kinds of power scrolls, then at least with the more focus on the Fel spawns for these side rewards, there should be more powerscrolls should be around for sale and the prices should start dropping and I care about those more than replicas of SoTs.

From a "reward sensation" psychology point of view, I feel there does need to be some sort of uncommon drop that one would be expected to get a few of each spawn so that every trip feels like progress. The SoT are a little too rare for that, but for me, chocolate ingredients from the paragons are fulfilling that role.

(edit: what I am a little perplexed by is the decision to put SoT in Fel in the first place ... they're a character development tool, of most use to non-powergamers, whereas from the bravado I see on the boards, Fel champ spawns are powergamer central ... but it's a done deal now so I'm content to sit back and see how it plays out, I'm curious to see what the market for "maxed-out skill in a box" will settle down to)

 

[Connor_Graham]

Well I can't exactly help it if you choose to play somewhere quiet =/ and nor can the devs.

Pac is the 4th largest populated shard in the game, and the most populated west coast shard. Hardly "quiet".

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"Pac is the 4th largest populated shard in the game, and the most populated west coast shard. Hardly "quiet"."

"Pac's are empty pretty much all day long"

...

Ok.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Who said it was? Seriously, you should quit pointing fingers and realize you're not the norm. Most players didn't happen to get a lucky streak with the RNG. I'm sure those Fel champ guilds are laughing all the way to the bank, seeing as they're pretty much the only ones that are getting these drops.

Huh? As far as I know, replica drop rate is same on either facets. RNG affects you in Fel or in Trammel.

And yes, I am bugged - I go to a spawn, merely stand there, and replicas drop in my pack. Maybe I can start a new line of business: People can rub my belly for 1M gold to get some spawn luck.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Pac is the 4th largest populated shard in the game, and the most populated west coast shard. Hardly "quiet"."

"Pac's are empty pretty much all day long"

...

Ok.

What, you don't get that people have given up on the champ spawns and are out doing something else instead of wasting their time? I thought that was pretty obvious myself, especially since I'd specifically said people had given up on them.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Huh? As far as I know, replica drop rate is same on either facets. RNG affects you in Fel or in Trammel.

I didn't say it wasn't, although the differences between the Fel and Tram spawns that I've already gone over shows that more will drop in Fel. What I did say was that your experience wasn't the norm. You think it's "ok" because you've gotten multiple drops. The vast majority that haven't are experiencing the norm. A smart fella like yourself should have been able to figure that out.

Or you could just be trying to protect the rarity of these items, oh Mr Rares Trader. I'm sure you'd be just fine with that.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I see. I did not realize that you had collected statistics on drop rates and came out with a P-value that pointed towards bias in the drop rate of replicas in trammel rule-set spawns. My bad, I will just shut-up and let you continue. Who am I to go by the official word on replica drop rate instead of believing you, especially when my personal experience and those of people I know seems to indicate otherwise?

That must obviously mean that I am just a street peddler trying to cover up a scam of massive proportions. God knows, I really need the gold.

(Without sarcasm: It is always possible that there is a distortion in drop rates. But I have seen nothing that might indicate so. I really don't know how one can reach to any sort of conclusions at this point in time. It is not uncommon to go days, weeks without getting anything in Fel too. I am going to go by official word for now.)

 

[HD2300]

When someone who sides with Devs 95% of the time says there is a problem, then there is a problem.

I think a better system would have been to have the replicas drop only in Tram. That way PvMers provide the items and PvPers provide the PS, and somewhat restore the balance that we had 2 years ago. imo rewards are leaning too heavily in favour of PvPers now as they get cheap faction items which are uber versions of Doom arties, rare set items, SoTs, PS and great loot.

It is great that PvPers now have a dedicated developer and kudos to the amount of content completed in a short amount of time, but maybe PvMers also deserve at least one developer dedicated to adding PvM content because they are the paying majority.

 

[canary]

When someone who sides with Devs 95% of the time says there is a problem, then there is a problem.

I think a better system would have been to have the replicas drop only in Tram. That way PvMers provide the items and PvPers provide the PS, and somewhat restore the balance that we had 2 years ago. imo rewards are leaning too heavily in favour of PvPers now as they get cheap faction items which are uber versions of Doom arties, rare set items, SoTs, PS and great loot.

It is great that PvPers now have a dedicated developer and kudos to the amount of content completed in a short amount of time, but maybe PvMers also deserve at least one developer dedicated to adding PvM content because they are the paying majority.

I'm going to pretend you meant this as a joke post. I pvm more than pvp but your post is just inane and more than a little ridiculous. Other than the SoT drop rate in Tram I think the current system is great, and also encourages risk versus reward for those who choose it.

 

[HD2300]

When someone who sides with Devs 95% of the time says there is a problem, then there is a problem.

I think a better system would have been to have the replicas drop only in Tram. That way PvMers provide the items and PvPers provide the PS, and somewhat restore the balance that we had 2 years ago. imo rewards are leaning too heavily in favour of PvPers now as they get cheap faction items which are uber versions of Doom arties, rare set items, SoTs, PS and great loot.

It is great that PvPers now have a dedicated developer and kudos to the amount of content completed in a short amount of time, but maybe PvMers also deserve at least one developer dedicated to adding PvM content because they are the paying majority.

I'm going to pretend you meant this as a joke post. I pvm more than pvp but your post is just inane and more than a little ridiculous. Other than the SoT drop rate in Tram I think the current system is great, and also
encourages risk versus reward for those who choose it.

Go to any shard except Atlantic. Compare it to 2.5 years ago. Case closed.

 

[canary]

Go to any shard except Atlantic. Compare it to 2.5 years ago. Case closed.

Er... who closed the case? Excuse me, I just laughed a little, Matlock.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

What, you don't get that people have given up on the champ spawns and are out doing something else instead of wasting their time? I thought that was pretty obvious myself, especially since I'd specifically said people had given up on them.

Apparently only on Pac. But no, the point was you say no one does them all day, which implies things are quiet there (Idk, I don't play there - I've already said where I DO play - I was taking your word for it) then when I say that you go all defensive and start reeling off what a active shard it is.

Heres another point, my last response contained ONLY the work 'Ok' and yet you STILL managed to find something to pancake about in that. Thats remarkable by anyones standards.

It clearly is neither obvious or reality, try a search site for your shard and the word replica. You have roughly the same as GL. Now it could be that some xsharded them all but I highly doubt it.

At least that clears up which of the contradictory statements was bs.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

What I did say was that your experience wasn't the norm.

You think yours is? You claimed no ones doing them yet you have the same amount for sale as GL where loads of people are doing them. You're clearly not seeing an accurate representation for your shard.

& again this is going by what you've said.