[UO Herald] TC1 Balance Testing Changes

[ElRay]

No one complained about heal pots, its the EP on items that's ********. As ******** as GD and Dread instant killing people, as ******** as WoD AI instant kill.

I wouldnt go as far to say that 50 ep is as "********" as those other things. No way, not by a long shot. 75 ep with no GM alchy was pretty close, but 50? nah.

This is so easy to fix, this is what I would do:

1) Not allow chain heal chugging with Greater heal pots and lesser heal pots(this is the problem I believe most people have with heal pots), you can chain chug these things, put 10 sec timer on both, not allowing the chain chug

2)Put 10 sec timer on cure and refresh pots***TEST THE TIMERS ON TEST SERVER, ADJUST AS NECESSARY *AKA* CURE POTS MAYBE 5 SECOND TIMER***

3) Bask in glory.

 

[spoonyd]

1) Not allow chain heal chugging with Greater heal pots and lesser heal pots(this is the problem I believe most people have with heal pots), you can chain chug these things, put 10 sec timer on both, not allowing the chain chug

This is a wonderful idea toward getting heal potions under control for those who complain about them. I agree that all healing pots of any kind should fall under the same 10 second timer.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Id say balance super dragons against player characters.

 

[WarUltima]

So tell us what you think about all the new items(consumables) they keep implementing into this game? More and more and more........

Anyone ask for these items? I dont recall ANY threads on asking for more item consumables, yet here they are, all 35 variations of em.....

Exactly. They did it to throw thieves a bone, and reducing EP item effectiveness can make this whole thing less ********.

 

[wrekognize]

I thought this balance pass was going to be about making unused weapons, especially two handed (War Hammer, Bardiche, Halberd) useful again. Perhaps even fix the situation with armor so that something other than Leather/Samurai Mage Armor is useful.

Instead they are going in and messing with..............heal potions? When was the last time someone complained about that. There has been a 10 second timer in-game forever. What about the heal potion dexers get every second with Close Wounds which has been complained about for years? This isn't a good start.

Agreed. They also need to balance corpse skin. It reduces poison and fire way too much. It makes pvp impossible for a new pvper who does not understand how the whole thing works. Necro comes along and corpse skins and with two flame strikes the victom is dead. Also, if they have no resist, Paralyze is very ridiculous.


...

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Heh, uh oh, we keep hiring paying UO subscribers as our designers! Does this mean if I put two of you in a ring I can expect a proper deathmatch? Because I'd pay for that.

Kidding aside, the items being put on TC1 are a portion of future changes, not the whole kit and kaboodle. We'd have to be mad not to look at other serious concerns.

Draconi can you let us know what the plans are in the near future for pets/tamers and also stealth/hide.

I dont understand why a player can use 2 skills within .2 seconds of each other. A simple fix would be to put a timer on the stealth skill just like everything else. What is it now 10-12 seconds? I mean if I use the hide skill I cant immediately meditate or detect hidden, why should a player be able to hide and then use a stealth skill? That is a simple fix for a HUGE PROBLEM that people have been abusing since it was introduced to the game. Also smoke bombs, I think they should have a timer as well, or maybe use something like 20 mana like an invis spell does?

As for the pets/tamers, either cap the firebreath at 35, or make it so they cant be used against player characters.

Those are your main problems/unbalances with your current pvp system right now. I garauntee you if you work on those problems you will have a VERY balanced game. And people will be forced to play showing characters, which will make it a better game for the majority of the players who are forced to deal with this on a daily basis.

 

[ElRay]

Exactly. They did it to throw thieves a bone,

Im sure there are better ways to throw thieves a bone, then to add yet EVEN MORE item consumables, that affect pvp.

Hell im sure that Rico scoundrel could give them a plethora of ideas for thieves. Not that they would listen or anything.

 

[Winker]

It seams that the Devs are pushing us all to DarkFall, where PvP will be FUN and not restricted like its going to be here. Ffs nerfing Pots what are you thinking of?

You boys must be smoking some good weed in the office to come up with this one. No Ordinary weed could do this to youre head!

So i get into a fight chug 4-5 pots and get out alive, walk round the corner and get ganked oh no my pots dont work now, guess i should just sit down and wait for the insureance to come out my account.

If this game was predictable it might work, But WHO is going to tell the reds they cant attack me coz i cant heal anymore.

 

[Experimental]

A new expansion?

Ultima Online: Rise of the Alchemists

 

[archite666]

Draconi can you let us know what the plans are in the near future for pets/tamers and also stealth/hide.

I dont understand why a player can use 2 skills within .2 seconds of each other. A simple fix would be to put a timer on the stealth skill just like everything else. What is it now 10-12 seconds? I mean if I use the hide skill I cant immediately meditate or detect hidden, why should a player be able to hide and then use a stealth skill? That is a simple fix for a HUGE PROBLEM that people have been abusing since it was introduced to the game. Also smoke bombs, I think they should have a timer as well, or maybe use something like 20 mana like an invis spell does?

As for the pets/tamers, either cap the firebreath at 35, or make it so they cant be used against player characters.

Those are your main problems/unbalances with your current pvp system right now. I garauntee you if you work on those problems you will have a VERY balanced game. And people will be forced to play showing characters, which will make it a better game for the majority of the players who are forced to deal with this on a daily basis.

As a pvp vet I completly agree with this, so does the rest of Siege Perilous, really go over to our forums and ask about this if you don't believe me. Everyone likes these changes.

 

[archite666]

I'd also like to say thank you for trying to better our game

 

[Kiss Of Death]

This change has no sense . I mean they have a pvp group? And did these ppl ever PvP? I know personally one guy who is in there... and he never actually pvped in his life. He never even went to Felucca.

I dunno but c'mon guys it's not normal.

There are 2 NERF needed since weeks (well months...) :

- G DRAGONS---> they make firebreath without line of sight...(2 - 3 screens away, behind houses, on no line of sight bridges etc), if I am not able to hit something, this thing shouldn't be able to hit me back, simple game mecanics, it's a big bug still up which is runing the fun many times.

-STEALTHING+USING PETS ACTIVELY---> this has to be nerfed, you can't hide while you have your pets actively attacking somebody, if your pet is actively attacking somebody due to an all kill macro, the tamer cannot hide . This should be done.

- Concussion ---> to be nerfed ---> and this is gonna be nerfed...v well done.

But now nerfing heals? it has no sense, 50 ep cap is good , nobody is complaining about pots, pots are good to survive massive ganks and in every single pvp situation.

There is no sense nerfing something that was already being perfectly adjusted long time ago (no cap on ep to 50 Ep cap..which is absolutely fine). There is also a good delay among each pot. Nothing has to be changed on pots . V bad mistake.

Then all these strange things you wanna put immunity etc... I mean they are too easy to exploit, they have no sense in UO, they don't belong to these game mecanics. HUGE mistake.

 

[Vexxed]

First off.... Diminishing Returns is too complicated and balancing can be accomplished in other ways... I've played for 10 years and understand 99% of the mechanics of UO but wrapping my head around another system that changes the effects of stuff based on how often would be a pain..

Anyway.. Quick Changes needed in PvP in my Humble opinion


#1) Mounting a pet un-toggles (turns off) any specials you have activated.

No more toggling getting off your mount turning the dismount special on and remounting so that you can effectively dismount someone while moving at mounted speed simply by hopping off at the correct moment.

#2) Pet summoning balls are interupted when the PET takes damage.

No more "fire and forget" Greater dragons from Despise island that can be recalled from safety. Tamers Verbal controls are near perfect now so a pet shouldn't be able to just disappear if the opponents decide to kill it. Once it's dead thats fine ... Tamers should be able to res anyway.

#3) Pure mages could use a boost. I think the dmg bonus of 10% for 100 inscription should also apply to HEALING spells.. & perhaps be raised to12-15% ??

#4) Trapped boxes should do a Minimum of 20 Damage. Effectively your casting a 5th circle spell (paralyze) and only getting a 0.25 seconds pause (typically a SCRIPT opended Tbox) and maybe 7 damage. At 20 damage the box would be doing 4th circle lighting dmg if you had inscribe & cause healing interuptions.

That's it for now...

Tamers would be effected by petball / dismounting changes & typical no resist bush / parry 50% EP dexxers would take a hit with the Tboxes and scribe mages would perhaps be worth trying to play... Anyway.. just my opinion of where a good place to start is... The #'s could easily be adjusted etc.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Agreed. They also need to balance corpse skin. It reduces poison and fire way too much. It makes pvp impossible for a new pvper who does not understand how the whole thing works. Necro comes along and corpse skins and with two flame strikes the victom is dead. Also, if they have no resist, Paralyze is very ridiculous.


...

Wrong.

Corpse skin reduces by 15 fire and Poison, Curse reduces all resists (no phys) to 60 (so if you have 80 fire 80 poison they go to 60 anyway).

How to win CORPSE perma? v simple young player, just make a suit easy with 75 fire and 75 poison, a corpse skin is gonna bring them to 60 as the spell Curse would do.

Also remember you can use apples... to remove curse...so you mistake. Just be prepared. Dont be nubi

and for Paralyze again you mistake, if you don't have resists , you simply can use a trapped box, if you don't know how to make them, create a nubi char with 50 tinkering and carpentry and craft trapped crates (with bolts), these crates will unblock you when you're paralyzed, you need simply to make a good macro with uoassist (useitem---convertto--->useitemtype) v simple.

Man just ask somebody who pvp already, he would explain you simple things like this at once.

I hope these infos will help u

 

[Hex_Europa]

Biggest PVP orientated changes i've seen for a while.

Of course if you lessen the results of spamming a specific special, players will just move on to the next best special and spam that, will always be the case.

All in all coming from someone who has played for 8 years as a pvper imho this is a step forward whether this is the right direction forward only time will tell.

Just make sure you balance any skills or abilities in Stygian Abyss BEFORE it's released please.

But keep up the good work, glad to see your trying to improve balance and not ignoring it. )

 

[Basara]

Here's a question - theoretically, if the Diminishing returns applied to all special moves, how would bladeweave be affected, since it randomly changes between AI, crushing blow, block, feint, mortal & bleed?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Another balance publish that fails to address pets.

More importantly...

...another publish that does NOTHING to stop Speedhackers, Dupers, and CHEATERS!

All cheating should be dealt with before anything else is done to this game.

Period.

 

[WarUltima]

At the very least currently DR only affects 2 specials (concussion and talon) and I think to make all specials affected by DR is too much. Here's some specials imo should be subjected to DR they are disarm(shortened rearm timer) and bleed (less ticks). One helps out dexer from turtling and the other for mages.

DR on pots might tick off some people who spent a lot of "gold" to gain their pvp "skill" while I think it might still be ok without pot nerf I really think it will help leveling the pvp field greatly. I know a lot of tamer gimps who don't have enough points for healing skill , with perfect connection and 40hp gheal pot they are doing just fine(mainly dread archer tamer gimps).

I don't know, but I wish to try and see what happens. As a 9 yr vet, I am used to adapting. ^^

 

[HD2300]

DR on pots might tick off some people who spent a lot of "gold" to gain their pvp "skill" while I think it might still be ok without pot nerf I really think it will help leveling the pvp field greatly. I know a lot of tamer gimps who don't have enough points for healing skill , with perfect connection and 40hp gheal pot they are doing just fine(mainly dread archer tamer gimps).

Consumables like pots should take a long time to consume. Say a 2 seconds freeze to take it out, open it and drink it all. Less if you have alchemy. If EA wants to do it right, then a total pot nerf along with a reduction in cap damge is really the way to go since balance is gained by less item dependance.

I also think Mages should be able to remove curses using the Bless spell. Why does a Legendary mage need enchanted apples or 40 Chiv to remove a curse?

 

[Magneto2272]

They really need to consider a change similar to bandages where a certain amount of damage needs to be done before you disrupt a mage. This disruption ability could be tied to Meditation/Focus skills. For example a 120 Meditation mage has a 99% chance to resist being disrupted by 10 damage or less.

JC, over the years i have felt in regard to many aspects of the game both existant and those that should exist we have been on the same page. your insights i do find to be accurate. however, this time i must disagree in regard to the above quote.

having primarily played a dexxer in my uo experience, this change would have an adverse effect to those who do play melee heavy templates such as mine, although having just returned i am noticing this a rare creature.

this being said, altering the spell casting dynamic to significantly increase the probability that no interrupt occurs below a certain damage range for those mages who have not employed the protection spell dynamic would tilt the pendulum too far for one reason: spellcasters do not - ever - miss.

melee templates, despite a few gimplate archer types, on the whole miss often and regularly. add to this that simply disarming the melee character literally relegates the damage capacity to almost zero. holy light, explosion potions, and one or two other insignificant and quite ineffective gimmicks are the few remaining options.

before the Resisting spells skill was altered so dramatically, there was potential for a mage spell to do half damage, or resist a spell effect entirely. in terms of game mechanical balance this could be translated as a mage spell 'missing'. but that is no longer the case. not only does each and every spell reach its target perfectly, but add to this the Protection spell mechanic. granted, when this spell is cast, it does slow spellcasting itself. the end result however, is that each spell will not only reach its target, but there is no opportunity to interrupt it.

to summarize, one could only feel somewhat comfortable with such a proposed change if there were an opposing melee template mechanic deferred for a Tactic skill heavy template that in short rendered the character invulnerable to being disarmed, a mechanic i have named weapon lock that i have proposed in a recent post.

regardless of my ramblings, if there were a balanced ability for melee templates on the points i have mentioned, it would in fact seem fair and on par to enact your proposal relating to spell interrupt. if not, all bets are off...

EDIT: you mentioned making the larger, much slower weapons such as the halberd, large battleaxe and a few other two-handed weapons viable again. i could not agree more. and actually have a very interesting proposal that i mentioned around two years ago but never gathered any attention. i do believe now would be appropriate to implement the following:

two-handed weapons that are around or above 3.5s base swing speed should have a two or three tile radius.. a weapon such a halberd is one of the three slowest weapons in ultima online. one of the three weapons [and the slowest] is the heavy crossbow, which obviously has huge range. i sincerely feel that all slow lumbering weapons such as large battleaxes, halberds, and similar weapons having a wider swing radius is exactly the bone and old dog needs....

id like to hear thoughts from any developers who may peruse this and you also JC...

 

[Logrus]

Hello all,
As soon as I get everything set up with my stratics account I'll post a nice formal detailed introduction and try to let you guys get to know me a bit.

For now I'll just address this thread.

0.) Don't Blame Draconi, he's just the messenger!

1.) These are as Draconi pointed out "candidate changes".

2.) Basically I am trying to implement a diminshing returns system to specific effects/specials/spells/abilities/items etc. This is to hopefully temper things so that they do not become overpowered.

• The detailed information or math behind it, is provided for those people who would like to test the system and make sure it does what its suppsoed to do.
• Its also there so for those who like to tweak their characters and their play style to take advantage of specific skills and abilities. I'll work on making the detailed explanations more reader friendly in the future.

3.) Balancing is exactly that a Balancing act. Some changes have a large area of effect and can't be implemented without fixing other things first.



Diminishing Returns, DOES NOT and will not apply to every single thing.


The Immunity discussion: One of the considerations in implementing a system like this is that people would immediately get their friends/guildmates to wail on them to build up their immunities before a fight. This is why its on TC1 before being in the publish.

Additionally just to be clear, any immunity effect is TEMPORARY.


Thanks for the testing data Sir Bolo!



It's late on Saturday here at EA mythic, and since I'm not running this post by anyone before submitting it I'm keeping it short and limited in scope.

So let me say these few words in parting.
The beauty of UO is the diversity of players, playstyles and templates. I respect this and any changes I hope to make will attempt to not cause gross imbalances/ flavor of the month templates between publishes. I will also attempt not to completely hose a template with any changes.
I will be as forthcoming as possible with change details.


Oh and thanks for the -"WARM"- Welcome

-Logrus

 

[UOKaiser]

Hello all,
As soon as I get everything set up with my stratics account I'll post a nice formal detailed introduction and try to let you guys get to know me a bit.

For now I'll just address this thread.

0.) Don't Blame Draconi, he's just the messenger!

1.) These are as Draconi pointed out "candidate changes".

2.) Basically I am trying to implement a diminshing returns system to specific effects/specials/spells/abilities/items etc. This is to hopefully temper things so that they do not become overpowered.

• The detailed information or math behind it, is provided for those people who would like to test the system and make sure it does what its suppsoed to do.
• Its also there so for those who like to tweak their characters and their play style to take advantage of specific skills and abilities. I'll work on making the detailed explanations more reader friendly in the future.

3.) Balancing is exactly that a Balancing act. Some changes have a large area of effect and can't be implemented without fixing other things first.



Diminishing Returns, DOES NOT and will not apply to every single thing.


The Immunity discussion: One of the considerations in implementing a system like this is that people would immediately get their friends/guildmates to wail on them to build up their immunities before a fight. This is why its on TC1 before being in the publish.

Additionally just to be clear, any immunity effect is TEMPORARY.


Thanks for the testing data Sir Bolo!



It's late on Saturday here at EA mythic, and since I'm not running this post by anyone before submitting it I'm keeping it short and limited in scope.

So let me say these few words in parting.
The beauty of UO is the diversity of players, playstyles and templates. I respect this and any changes I hope to make will attempt to not cause gross imbalances/ flavor of the month templates between publishes. I will also attempt not to completely hose a template with any changes.
I will be as forthcoming as possible with change details.


Oh and thanks for the -"WARM"- Welcome

-Logrus

Understood. Have you taken in consideration of balancing up? As you may have seen by now any nerfing of stronger abilities will make regular skills become overpowered as the skill that was conteracting that ends up becoming weaker than the other skills? Also it looks like whith every change UO continues to be pushed to force people to choose specific templates like in wow and other games example (paladian,mage,necro.tamer.) Unlike the spirit of UO which allowed mix and match skills to be very viable like a warrior that does not need the healing, anatomy skill and can place hiding and stealthing alchemy in skill set.
As well have you consider the dimishing property especially of pots in PVM situation when u have no choice but to use specific skills and especially pots for many creative player templates that are not chiv-healing-magery based repeatly for hours on end with barely a break.
Thank you for your time and consideration of my post.

 

[sirion]

I am not impressed by the these ideas, but I still support them as long as PvM is not hurt.

One extreme example, like many of us like to do, is soloing the bosses. (Right, some might start saying "you should NOT solo boss!" But that's always fun to do.)

See this video on a Japanese blog:
http://frb.blog108.fc2.com/blog-entry-379.html

Will this gameplay be eliminated by the new ideas?

 

[JC the Builder]

Logrus, here is a tip. Don't call it diminishing returns. Otherwise it is going to be dismissed outright by a lot of people due to Mr Tact trying to implement a similar method for item properties a long time ago. Just call it effect saturation or something.

 

[Logrus]

I love UO's ability to mix and match skills and templates. UO's lack of class restrictions, for me, the most fun MMORPG available.

The fact is there are some things that are, a bit overpowered. Some combinations of skills, items, abilities etc that are EXCESSIVELY overpowered.

Unfortunately somtimes a fix isn't as simple as flipping a switch.

For example, lets take concussion blow at its former.

to quote myself
-Damage was calculated based on the difference in Percent of MANA and HP.
Minimum 10 damage.
Take a Character with 100 HP, 100 Mana.

This character is hit for 20 Damage

If they continue fighting and are hit with a concussion, the concussion now does 20% of its bonus damage + the concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.

If the player instead heals themselves using 12 mana in the process and is then hit with a concussion: the concussion does 12% of its bonus damage
+ concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.


This basically means that it is a Lose/Lose situation for the Defender and Win/Win for the attacker.
The defender essentially gets penalized no matter how they choose to fight.​

This has been in the game since AOS. It did not immediately become the over used special it is now. There was the fun of uncapped armour ignores, lightning strikes, perfection slipping through in PvP, and a horde of other stuff that was much more popular.

Here is what fixing concussion touches, that I'm trying to take into consideration.

1.) PvP (the most obvious.)
2.)PvM (not as much as PvP since the damage was calculated the same against Mobs.
3.) The UO Economy: Crafters, resource gatherers, Player Vendors.

While some consider PvP changes to only affect the Fel crowd, just try to imagine the horror of crafters, vendor owners, etc if that mace they had on their vendor suddenly became as useful as the Tessen?

So rather than aiming at "nerfing" concussion blow, I instead aimed at making it more "situationally useful" with a control system to hopefully limit the rinse and repeat abuse present with alot of other things.


As for soloing bosses, I guess my un-well thought out opinion on that is: It should not be impossible, but should definitely not be remotely easy.


**Thanks JC,
I had it initially as an "Immunity" system but after explaining it to some others it was easier to explain it as kind of diminishing returns. Also some seemed to take immunity to mean that complete immunity was always achieved instead of partial immunity. Maybe I'll steal that effect saturation phrasing from you.

 

[Exgirlfriend]

Can you look into changing the way krysses work, people use them to spam leathel posion over and over. My Nox-mage dosent ever get to cast LP even with having max skill in magery and posioning, why was the old 5% chance to cast Lp removed for me?

thanks
BTW nice to meet you

 

[altarego]

The term you're looking for is "tolerance" to a particular effect, not immunity, or diminishing returns.

And I like the concept.

 

[archite666]

This change has no sense . I mean they have a pvp group? And did these ppl ever PvP? I know personally one guy who is in there... and he never actually pvped in his life. He never even went to Felucca.

I dunno but c'mon guys it's not normal.

There are 2 NERF needed since weeks (well months...) :

- G DRAGONS---> they make firebreath without line of sight...(2 - 3 screens away, behind houses, on no line of sight bridges etc), if I am not able to hit something, this thing shouldn't be able to hit me back, simple game mecanics, it's a big bug still up which is runing the fun many times.

-STEALTHING+USING PETS ACTIVELY---> this has to be nerfed, you can't hide while you have your pets actively attacking somebody, if your pet is actively attacking somebody due to an all kill macro, the tamer cannot hide . This should be done.

- Concussion ---> to be nerfed ---> and this is gonna be nerfed...v well done.

But now nerfing heals? it has no sense, 50 ep cap is good , nobody is complaining about pots, pots are good to survive massive ganks and in every single pvp situation.

There is no sense nerfing something that was already being perfectly adjusted long time ago (no cap on ep to 50 Ep cap..which is absolutely fine). There is also a good delay among each pot. Nothing has to be changed on pots . V bad mistake.

Then all these strange things you wanna put immunity etc... I mean they are too easy to exploit, they have no sense in UO, they don't belong to these game mecanics. HUGE mistake.

I have to agree with this big time as well.

 

[Harlequin]

Understood. Have you taken in consideration of balancing up? As you may have seen by now any nerfing of stronger abilities will make regular skills become overpowered as the skill that was conteracting that ends up becoming weaker than the other skills? Also it looks like whith every change UO continues to be pushed to force people to choose specific templates like in wow and other games example (paladian,mage,necro.tamer.) Unlike the spirit of UO which allowed mix and match skills to be very viable like a warrior that does not need the healing, anatomy skill and can place hiding and stealthing alchemy in skill set.
As well have you consider the dimishing property especially of pots in PVM situation when u have no choice but to use specific skills and especially pots for many creative player templates that are not chiv-healing-magery based repeatly for hours on end with barely a break.
Thank you for your time and consideration of my post.

I second this. Please consider balancing upwards instead.

I understand that there's a constant need to evolve the game and in some situations balance it, and I am normally supportive of changes that the devs implement. But the majority of these changes seems like an effort to balance PvP that will also affect PvM. Specifically the healing potion changes that seems to be also targetted at PvP. Now on top of the 10 sec delay, there's diminishing returns. I am not sure if you bypass the 10 sec timer if you use potions of different strengths (I may have misunderstood, but that's the impression that one of the earlier posts gave me), letting players chain heal pots, but if that's the concern, implement the 10 sec delay no matter what type of heal pots is used.

Or alternatively, if you go ahead with dimishing returns, remove the 10 sec delay.

Question for the immunity to damages, does this apply to PvM as well? eg Dragon bite/breath/spells doing consecutively lesser damage to players until we become ultimately immune temporarily (maybe not full immunity, since only healing pots are targetted thus, but I am guessing 50%)?

If not, you'd probably see alot more people PvP'g with their pets.
If so, I can already picture ways to prime my immunity before going against DFs/Peerless etc -

For the immunity to damage, I am guessing that you'll add a counter to track how many times the players have been targetted for the different damage/special moves/spells/healing pots. And this counter will not track which mob/player did the damage, and the immunity will apply across the board from all similar attacks from any mobs/players.

That's alot of extra work for something that will not be taken well by a very big portion of the player base I am guessing...

 

[Gandie]

Welcome logrus!

You seem to have lots good ideas for balacing the PvP playing field!!

 

[drinkbeerallday]

More importantly...

...another publish that does NOTHING to stop Speedhackers, Dupers, and CHEATERS!

All cheating should be dealt with before anything else is done to this game.

Period.

One of the worst cheats right now is logging out to save your pet in PvP. Anyone doing this should be perma-banned.

 

[Mr Moosestache]

Also, if they have no resist, Paralyze is very ridiculous.

What the....? If you choose to run around with no resist, in exchange for another skill, be prepared to pay the consequences. Paralyze , poison everytime, mana vamp working everytime. Being able to negate 120 skill points with a trapped box is ridiculous. That being said, they should find a way (besides this diminshing returns idea.) to fix EO/para as well.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

What the....? If you choose to run around with no resist, in exchange for another skill, be prepared to pay the consequences. Paralyze , poison everytime, mana vamp working everytime. Being able to negate 120 skill points with a trapped box is ridiculous. That being said, they should find a way (besides this diminshing returns idea.) to fix EO/para as well.

each trapped box should only work once and should be heavy. 100+ stones.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

here are some people carrying boxes on a bicycle. they are clearly marked 257 stones.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

One of the worst cheats right now is logging out to save your pet in PvP. Anyone doing this should be perma-banned.

Since it is as designed, I disagree...but if the devs see fit to change it, and someone can still pull it off using a 3rd party program, you would be correct.

 

[AesSedai]

each trapped box should only work once and should be heavy. 100+ stones.

- They did make it so that trapped boxes / pouches didn't break paralysis at one time (shortly after AoS, iirc). And they put it back in with the next patch. I think they put it back in because with no way to break paralysis you didn't have a chance as long as 1 player spam-paralyzed while another killed you.

 

[Viper09]

One of the worst cheats right now is logging out to save your pet in PvP. Anyone doing this should be perma-banned.

Since it is as designed, I disagree...but if the devs see fit to change it, and someone can still pull it off using a 3rd party program, you would be correct.

Indeed
At best it is a legal exploit, not a cheat.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Indeed
At best it is a legal exploit, not a cheat.

I agree, at best it is a legal exploit, at worst it is a cheat. either way it needs to be fixed

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Since it is as designed, I disagree...but if the devs see fit to change it, and someone can still pull it off using a 3rd party program, you would be correct.

It is designed to get your pet from being stuck not save it from dying.

So yes it is a cheat.

 

[Viper09]

Indeed
At best it is a legal exploit, not a cheat.

I agree, at best it is a legal exploit, at worst it is a cheat. either way it needs to be fixed

Erm, let me correct that then. At worst it's a legal exploit
Legal because at this time it is intended.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Hmm.. but it's not intended, is it? It's for getting your pet un-stuck not saving it from dying.

Not sure how anyone could disagree with that?

 

[UOKaiser]

I love UO's ability to mix and match skills and templates. UO's lack of class restrictions, for me, the most fun MMORPG available.

The fact is there are some things that are, a bit overpowered. Some combinations of skills, items, abilities etc that are EXCESSIVELY overpowered.

Unfortunately somtimes a fix isn't as simple as flipping a switch.

For example, lets take concussion blow at its former.

to quote myself
-Damage was calculated based on the difference in Percent of MANA and HP.
Minimum 10 damage.
Take a Character with 100 HP, 100 Mana.

This character is hit for 20 Damage

If they continue fighting and are hit with a concussion, the concussion now does 20% of its bonus damage + the concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.

If the player instead heals themselves using 12 mana in the process and is then hit with a concussion: the concussion does 12% of its bonus damage
+ concussion base 10 damage + whatever damage the weapon and spell effects hit for.


This basically means that it is a Lose/Lose situation for the Defender and Win/Win for the attacker.
The defender essentially gets penalized no matter how they choose to fight.​

This has been in the game since AOS. It did not immediately become the over used special it is now. There was the fun of uncapped armour ignores, lightning strikes, perfection slipping through in PvP, and a horde of other stuff that was much more popular.

Here is what fixing concussion touches, that I'm trying to take into consideration.

1.) PvP (the most obvious.)
2.)PvM (not as much as PvP since the damage was calculated the same against Mobs.
3.) The UO Economy: Crafters, resource gatherers, Player Vendors.

While some consider PvP changes to only affect the Fel crowd, just try to imagine the horror of crafters, vendor owners, etc if that mace they had on their vendor suddenly became as useful as the Tessen?

So rather than aiming at "nerfing" concussion blow, I instead aimed at making it more "situationally useful" with a control system to hopefully limit the rinse and repeat abuse present with alot of other things.


As for soloing bosses, I guess my un-well thought out opinion on that is: It should not be impossible, but should definitely not be remotely easy.


**Thanks JC,
I had it initially as an "Immunity" system but after explaining it to some others it was easier to explain it as kind of diminishing returns. Also some seemed to take immunity to mean that complete immunity was always achieved instead of partial immunity. Maybe I'll steal that effect saturation phrasing from you.

Just on the soloing boss or what is considered boss they stated it was meant to be done by 1-5 people I believe so it's part of the design. I assure you it is not easy as it sounds to solo one only a few experts can actually do it alone. When it becomes easy is if anybody can come in and kill it in 10 minutes with any template without dying once this includes getting the keys. Of course because of the lack of players and late hours some play and it's not really public like doom most have no choice but to solo them or head back to fighting bloods or named creatures. Also the rewards don't increase as more players join. If 5 players join the rewards should 5x the amount sharing is not caring in UO.
The immunity idea can be played with and find a way not to effect PVM. But the potion idea that one has to be taken out it does nobody any good maybe siege will like it and non potion pvp templates but the rest of the player base no way no how.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Hmm.. but it's not intended, is it? It's for getting your pet un-stuck not saving it from dying.

Not sure how anyone could disagree with that?

Can a player keep their pet from dying this way? Does that player have to do anything outside of the regular game mechanics? How long has this been this way and not been changed?

It is exactly as it was designed.

Like I said before, if the devs change the design, and a player can still accomplish it using any method outside of the regular game mechanics, then it is a cheat, or an exploit.

Otherwise it is simply a part of the game just like Recall.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

I don't know rlly what to say, we're saying to you 80 % here and tons will say that PVP is pretty well balanced atm, immunity etc doesn't belong to uo, it means that since 11 years this thing didn't belong here.

It has no sense, specially when there are still BIGGER troubles to fix. And I suggest you to try to find 2-3 real PVPERS to help you in your task. (Sir Bolo never pvped in uo never, I know him)

-> G DRAGONS---> they do 70 dmg 3 screens away, or behind houses, or on bridges with no line of sight ---> they hit you without the line of sight, so it's a big BUG no? I cannot hit them 3 screens away, they can, they can hit me behind a wall , I cant hit them, they can do firebreath on west bridge despise with no line of sight and I cannot hit them.... this is a huge mistake. And anyway all the pet should be rethought. This is the FIRST bad thing.

-> STEALTHING + ALL KILL with pets + HIDING---> I've seen ppl going in animal form , saying ALL KILL , and then hiding...their pet is fighting and they stay perma hidden ok? this should not be allowed, if you say ALL KILL To a pet, it should keep revelaed the tamer, who shouldn't be able to hide. This is the SECOND bad thing.

-> CONCUSSION---> just CAP maximum dmg to 50 , you don't need to make strange calculations or something, you simple cap the maximum dmg to 50. Don't think about sellers lol man? just cap the dmg to 50, it'll be still better then armour ignores 35 capped.
Concussion dmg should be CAPPED to 50 , simple facts, and easy.

THESE are the Bigger troubles in pvp atm.

I see ppl here talking about SPEEDHACK etc, ofc these things are not nice, but let's fix the easier things now.

I hope you gonna nerf G dragons bugs at once, it's not normal ppl from EA STAFF are NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER mentioning anything about G dragons...lol you should try to have one trained attacking you, then you go behind walls, you go 2 screens away, if the firebreath is coming, you die anyway, no line of sight for it. More buggy then that .

 

[Chrome]

Potion's Immunity Test in TC1

[Potion's Base Immunity Value] : A
lesser heal potion : 5
heal potion : 10
greater heal potion : 20

[Enhance Potion Revise] : B
+EP% (+0~50%)

[Alchemy Skill Revise] : C
-(Alchemy/20)*10%
Alchemy GM : -50%
Alchemy 80.0~99.9 : -40%
etc.

[Potion's Immunity Value]
A*(1+B+C)
GHP, Alchemy=100, EP=30% ---> Immunity = 16

[Accumulation and Reduction of Immunity]
Maximum of Potion's Immunity : 120
Immunity Reduction Rate : 7 every 16 sec after latest potion used
Potion can't be used when Immunity Value is more than 120 by using potion.
If Immunity Value is 110, I can't use GHP.

[HP Recovery using Potion]
(Potion's Base)*(1+EP%)*(1-Immunity/240)
EP% : 0~80% (including Alchemy skill)
Immunity : 0~120

 

[AesSedai]

~ OT

Nice VIP badge there, Logrus. Welcome!


*Muses* Does this mean the Mythic machine has relaxed their mandate of using real names rather than our beloved UO monikers, if one so chooses? If so, then I belt a hearty: Yea!

 

[Logrus]

Well I guess some people are doing testing and some in depth research on at least one of the changes.

Strangely I was pretty sure I'd get more yelling over concussion than healing potions.

The balancing process is complex, and while there is an overall plan and fix list, the reality is not all can be done at one time, and those things may change.

I am listening, I do read alot of board postings, regarding problems and some of the proposed solutions. So please keep the information coming.


For those of you testing this stuff out I do have a few requests.
Its great to get information on how everything works, I think thats not just helpful to us developers, but the community as well.

What is really helpful, is if you try to break it. Exploit it, abuse it. I want to use these fixes in ways completely unintended.
For example:
How does Talon strike stack with a template that uses Necro, poison and bleed?
As a mage can you defend against that at all?

If not then, that may be a change that has to be addressed.

When I'm out PvPing, Or PvMing Necro Dexer Ninja templates just dont seem to be that popular, but you can be sure that as a player, after reading this post I'd be making on on TC. Maybe its the new flavor of the month.

This kind of testing is really, really, really helpful. It's much easier to fix something before publish than after.

The UO world allows this kind of whacked out infinitely customisable playstyle.


------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorgus

 

[WarUltima]

How does Talon strike stack with a template that uses Necro, poison and bleed?
As a mage can you defend against that at all?

If not then, that may be a change that has to be addressed.

When I'm out PvPing, Or PvMing Necro Dexer Ninja templates just dont seem to be that popular, but you can be sure that as a player, after reading this post I'd be making on on TC. Maybe its the new flavor of the month.

This kind of testing is really, really, really helpful. It's much easier to fix something before publish than after.

The UO world allows this kind of whacked out infinitely customisable playstyle.


------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorgus

OK, Talon strike along is not too much of a problem as a mage, it's a 3 second tick. While the damage is fairly high in total it's acceptable. HOWEVER when used with strangle (somewhat irreagular ticks) It's NOT OK. Strangle along on mages creates enough problem (unless they apple/faction aid/remove curse), now lets throw in 50ish damage ticking talon strike, 2 second tick bleed, and then poison tick, the mage is left with nothing but to run away. You are even going to have problem ghealing thru it. What I would suggest is making talon strike an extremely high -HP regen that doesnt interrupt. Say currently the talon strike will do 9dmg 6ticks total at 3 second apart. Increase the damage a little bit and make it -HP regeneration equal to 60 over 18 seconds, otherwise keep the current design and simply make unable to interrupt casting.

Mage is relatively weak now comparing to dexers. Dexers gets better damage as their items improve (DI/hit spell/hld/velocity/leeches), but mages dont get extra damage outside their 15sdi. Mages can use some help. DoT is a good idea but some of them dont have to interrupt.

 

[mr.blackmage]

I suggested before having dots stack on top of eachother. Either that, or maybe have a currently existing skill serve to prevent interruption from non direct damage sources. Maybe even have it for pure mage templates, and introduce some sort of benefit to pure warrior templates. Balance a few things (dragons, archery, etc) and a lot would be "fixed".

 

[SixUnder]

changing the way potions work when pets and other things are not balanced. its not the answer.

you cant fix pvp by changing pots all your gonna due by changing pots is make people who are getting ganked, having dread mares on them, and or whatever die quicker. that is not balancing anything.