Should doom be availble in fel

[Dragkiris]

Inquiring minds want to know.
I for one am tired of having my red chars discriminated against. And before you start I have 7 chars and the 2 reds are craftsmen. It is not fair that only blue chars can participate in this. I demand to be treated fairly and have the doom gauntlet put in fel. It is not right that us reds are discriminated against. Its down right profiling by color.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

It is on Siege...la

 

[Dragkiris]

It is on Siege...la

Rico the only regret I have in UO was not starting Siege the day it went live. Its hard to leave 9 years of work to start over.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Inquiring minds want to know.
I for one am tired of having my red chars discriminated against. And before you start I have 7 chars and the 2 reds are craftsmen. It is not fair that only blue chars can participate in this. I demand to be treated fairly and have the doom gauntlet put in fel. It is not right that us reds are discriminated against. Its down right profiling by color.

Except for the fact that, unlike skin color IRL, your characters aren't created red. They become so as a consequence of their own actions.

As to the actual issue, under the present configuration, there are unique rewards for both rules sets.

Having more rewards available under the Trammel rules than under the Felucca rules is justifiable by the fact that considerably more players want to play in Trammel only and have nothing to do with Felucca than vice versa, or even than want to play on both sides of the Moongate.

This preference cannot possibly be a function of the fact that there are more rewards in Trammel. We know this by the following facts:

—The first facet-specific reward I can remember, the Dungeon Khaldun, was offered to Felucca specifically to get more people to play there to balance out server loads;

—After that mostly failed, the second set of facet-specific rewards I can remember, power scrolls, were offered to Felucca specifically to get more people to play there to balance out server loads;

—Another fairly early facet-specific reward set, blessed Faction runics, was also Felucca-only, yet weren't often taken advantage of.

It is simply not factually true that more people being in Trammel is a function solely of their being more rewards there, because offering rewards to Felucca-only has been met with limited success at best.

Logically, this must mean that most players choose to not go into Felucca for other reasons than lack of rewards there. In other words, most players have voted with their feet already.

The fact that there are rewards that are unique to Felucca is remarkable, and reflects a commitment by the team to keeping the facet, and its rules set, alive despite player preference.

So.....Why are there so many complaints that it isn't enough?

-Galen's player

 

[Dragkiris]

Faction runics were not fel only rewards. All you had to do was join a faction and you could use your blessed vanq runic weapons in tram all you wanted without any risk.

 

[Setnaffa]

I don't think I can say it any better than Galen did, but I'll add one small piece...

You have 2 reds, but 7 character slots. If you want to go to DOOM, do what the rest of us do: create a DOOM character. I have a character I've created specifically for DOOM and he is the only one I take there. I guess he does more than just go to DOOM. I'm using him for the current Tram Town invasions as well, and he does a decent job at the Tram Champ Spawns. He'd be a sitting duck in Fel though.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Faction runics were not fel only rewards. All you had to do was join a faction and you could use your blessed vanq runic weapons in tram all you wanted without any risk.

*sighs*

Power scrolls, likewise can be "used" in Trammel, because one's skill doesn't shoot back down to 100 when you step through the Moongate.

And artifacts can, likewise, can be used in Felucca.

The point, clearly, is that blessed faction runics were obtained from Felucca.

You know this, however, and are being thick on purpose. Why I can't guess. My post was non-insulting, non-provocative, non-confrontational.

-Galen's player

 

[Yalp]

... before you start I have 7 chars and the 2 reds are craftsmen.

Your craftsmen are able to go toe to toe with Dark Father? Perhaps the chant to nerf tamers is a bit off.. and needs to be NERF CRAFTSMEN!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The Devs should make Khaldun more like Doom, with artifact drops and such.

Khaldun is a really cool dungeon that doesn't get much use anymore than I can tell.

 

[Dragkiris]

I meant I have 7 chars and my only 2 blues are craftsmen. Why would I had red craftsman? I mustve had a brain fart.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Why would I had red craftsman?

An old tinker/carp who made exploding crates.
An alchemist who gets too carried away throwing the GE pots they make.

...la

 

[Cetric]

I don't think I can say it any better than Galen did, but I'll add one small piece...

You have 2 reds, but 7 character slots. If you want to go to DOOM, do what the rest of us do: create a DOOM character. I have a character I've created specifically for DOOM and he is the only one I take there. I guess he does more than just go to DOOM. I'm using him for the current Tram Town invasions as well, and he does a decent job at the Tram Champ Spawns. He'd be a sitting duck in Fel though.

hey guess what champ, blues can come to fel too

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

An old tinker/carp who made exploding crates.
An alchemist who gets too carried away throwing the GE pots they make.

...la

Oh, a poisoner who leaves poisoned fish steaks laying around for people to eat, lol. That was always fun...la

 

[Setnaffa]

hey guess what champ, blues can come to fel too

Of course they can. My DOOM guy just isn't suited for PvP. He's setup up for PvM. That's why he's a sitting duck. He actually lives in Fel, but in a remote area. He can live through a 1v1 attack, but he doesn't do enough PvP damage to kill anyone.

 

[Cetric]

Of course they can. My DOOM guy just isn't suited for PvP. He's setup up for PvM. That's why he's a sitting duck. He actually lives in Fel, but in a remote area. He can live through a 1v1 attack, but he doesn't do enough PvP damage to kill anyone.

do you think my pvp necro mage could drop a dreadhorn. ok im done.

 

[Dragkiris]

I think the whole mentality on these boards are that pvpers should adapt to do the tram stuff if they want but the tram players shouldnt have to adapt to do the ONE THING that fel has.

 

[Prince Caspian]

The Devs should make Khaldun more like Doom, with artifact drops and such.

Khaldun is a really cool dungeon that doesn't get much use anymore than I can tell.

I like this idea. In fact, Khaldun should have a unique drop set. Khaldun is one of the very few dungeons in this game with an intriguing backstory woven into it.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The Devs should make Khaldun more like Doom, with artifact drops and such.

Khaldun is a really cool dungeon that doesn't get much use anymore than I can tell.

I used to think that Khaldun should be put in Trammel permanently, and in fact had publicly argued that.

I was talked out of that position, however, by someone on these boards, I forget who. (Yes, someone who changed his or her mind on the basis of a U-Hall exchange.)

Now I'm increasingly liking the dual rewards system...Meaning I no longer think I can argue power scrolls should be in Trammel, I am softening towards the Harrower having unique Champion Spawn Artifacts, etc....

There's something really kinda cool about having an artifact from a place you never want to go to.

This means, however, that the original poster's argument is something I'm actually even less sympathetic to than I was before.

As to your post, and sorry for taking so long to get to your actual subject!, for my part I think I could (for what it's worth) support Khaldun Artifacts.

I'd say there shouldn't be many of them, though, and they shouldn't be terribly powerful.

A Harrower slayer talisman (with no other properties).

Another talisman, named for one of the cursed explorers of Khaldun, with the demon slaying peroperty.

A cool weapon.

Etc.

-Galen's player

 

[Surgeries]

It is on Siege...la

Um......

There is no Fel on Siege....

Yeah...but you already knew that.

Of course.

God I wish they would allow Ignore to work on Mods...only the ones from the Thief forum whose name rhymes with Trico, of course...not naming anyone specifically, mind you.

That's all.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Most templates don't work well in one or the other (PvP/PvM).


Tamers work well in both...which makes some people angry.

 

[Cetric]

I think the whole mentality on these boards are that pvpers should adapt to do the tram stuff if they want but the tram players shouldnt have to adapt to do the ONE THING that fel has.

Thank You! AMEN!

 

[Wenchkin]

I don't think we need any history lessons or justification for such a basic request...

The truth is I'm not red, but I don't want to be going to Tram to get this or that. Just as Tram players frequently tell us that they don't want to come to Fel to play, or they're fed up being swamped in an event spawn. I'd happily clear off to Fel if the opportunity was there! I didn't want to go to Tram for a lot of PvM. But the dungeons I used were all turned into champ areas and trashed. I knew quite a few Tram players who'd visit Fel for a quiet bit of PvM, who got nuked with the champ spawn changes. Then item after item was spawned only in Tram facets.

Now, the Tram players have been well catered for. If PS could be obtained at a decent price from an NPC, that would cut out the favorite complaint that Fel has something that Tram players want and perhaps we can move forward from that.

The bottom line is, Fel players shouldn't have to ask to see items spawn under their ruleset. We shouldn't have to ask for it, or justify the request.

I'm not asking for mirror replicas of every dungeon location like Ilsh/Malas and the Doom gauntlet. Mirrors are a boring way to solve this issue. Instead, let's have a bit of creativity in using our overland areas in Fel and the dungeons nobody really uses. It's supposed to be a more risky environment, let's make it risky. Add a bit more risk to Fel by putting in random overland spawns with mini bosses who drop doom arties for example. Put a few arties into high treasure chests and MIBs. Spawn level 6 Fel tmaps for starters.

I think old dungeons deserve some love in general (Tram ones too), and in Fel a system could be added where you got either very rare arty/ingredient drops or get them for completing some quest or task. Not only does that give Fel players the option of where to get something, it gives all players an option for the "how" side of things too. So if you're bored of running the gauntlet (and who isn't?) you can pop to Fel and try.

Wenchy

 

[IAMTHEWHITERABIT]

I think I should be able to go up to the bank and yell "give arties", or "give resources". I am tired of working for stuff. Just give it to me. NOW!!!! I am becoming a bigger Trammie everyday.

 

[Setnaffa]

do you think my pvp necro mage could drop a dreadhorn. ok im done.

I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make. I don't know if your necro mage would do well soloing a Dreadhorn, but I do know my PvM DOOM Paly doesn't do well in PvP. When I want to do a Champ Spawn, Factions, or other Fel stuff, I jump on my SamNinja Archer or Necro Mage (yeah...I have one too). MY point is we have 7 character slots, so if someone wants to do DOOM, they should create a PvM character or leave their PvP character blue. Expecting to be entitled to use the same character for every situation is crazy.

 

[Setnaffa]

I think the whole mentality on these boards are that pvpers should adapt to do the tram stuff if they want but the tram players shouldnt have to adapt to do the ONE THING that fel has.

Generally speaking, PvP and PvM are separate play styles and few characters can adapt to both. I personally have 3 characters I use strictly for Fel/PvP/Champ Spawns/Guilds/Factions etc. I also have 3 characters I use for PvM, and 1 (a stealth thief) who goes where ever he wants.

Fel has more than ONE THING that Trammel doesn't. Look at Galen's post for a few of them.

Fel: Power Scrolls, Factions, PvP, Double Resources, Khaldun, Faction Runics.

Regardless, you can take your PvP characters to DOOM. They just can't be Red. If you choose to be red, then deal with the consequences. 2 of my PvP chars are Red and so they stay in Fel. No big deal.

 

[Cetric]

I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make. I don't know if your necro mage would do well soloing a Dreadhorn, but I do know my PvM DOOM Paly doesn't do well in PvP. When I want to do a Champ Spawn, Factions, or other Fel stuff, I jump on my SamNinja Archer or Necro Mage (yeah...I have one too). MY point is we have 7 character slots, so if someone wants to do DOOM, they should create a PvM character or leave their PvP character blue. Expecting to be entitled to use the same character for every situation is crazy.

I guess my point is, like your previous post, there are certain things fel is for, and certain things tram is for. One of the biggest is two seperate play styles. I do not care to make a sampire peerless soloer, and im sure there are plenty of pvmers who do not wish to make any character worth pvping with.

 

[Nexus]

Inquiring minds want to know.
I for one am tired of having my red chars discriminated against. And before you start I have 7 chars and the 2 reds are craftsmen. It is not fair that only blue chars can participate in this. I demand to be treated fairly and have the doom gauntlet put in fel. It is not right that us reds are discriminated against. Its down right profiling by color.

I've said it many times I think Reds should be able to go anywhere. Just they should be restricted to the rules of the facet they are on. Maybe make one additional difficulty for them if they are on a Non-Fel Facet they cannot interact with any Town NPC....

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

It is on Siege...la

Um......

There is no Fel on Siege....

Yeah...but you already knew that.

Of course.

God I wish they would allow Ignore to work on Mods...only the ones from the Thief forum whose name rhymes with Trico, of course...not naming anyone specifically, mind you.

That's all.

Sure there is. There is no Trammel nor Trammel ruleset on Siege. And to your request to ignore me...it's rather simple. When you see a thread started by me...don't open it. If you run across a post of mine in a thread I didn't start, don't read it. I'll send ya PM if I have something you shouldn't ignore.

See how helpful that was?...la

 

[Limlight]

Fel: Power Scrolls, Factions, PvP, Double Resources, Khaldun, Faction Runics

.

lol....let me fix this for you....things that you cant use in the other facet:

Fel: Power Scrolls, Factions, Double Resources
Tram: Malas, Luna, DOOM, Labrynth, Bedlam, Illshenar (which is tons of dungeons and the Gargoyle City), the area with Swoop and Dread Horn, Tokuno Cities, The Citadel

1. You can use Faction Runics in Tram.
2. You were able to go to Khaldun just last month in tram.
3. You can PvP in guild wars and your guildmates any facet you want.

Seriously, TRAM has a landslide more things than Fel. Quit being babies.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

Wtf how come I only have 6 character slots....

 

[Viper09]

Wtf how come I only have 6 character slots....

Exactly what I was thinking, lmao. Only I paid for my 6th slot.
So let's clarify this for Setnaffa:
Unless rules have changed, and unless you payed for more slots. People come with 5 slots, not 7.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Wtf how come I only have 6 character slots....

You start with 5, I think?, then there were a couple of ways over the years to get another one.

I only play one-and-a-half characters so I've never bothered.

-Galen's player

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Having more rewards available under the Trammel rules than under the Felucca rules is justifiable by the fact that considerably more players want to play in Trammel only and have nothing to do with Felucca than vice versa, or even than want to play on both sides of the Moongate.

Can you back that up? It is definitely not true on my shard. Almost all of the biggest guilds on Atlantic also play in Fel.

Source: http://town.uo.com/guilds/shard_0.html

HOT, LNR, Killer Cows are primarily Fel guilds. Lot of members of the other guilds can also be seen on both facets. Only two years ago, six out of ten guilds on that list were primarily Fel guilds.

A quick look at the global list also shows presence of quite a few fel guilds even though I don't know every guild out there. I would say you are absurdly wrong to make that claim based on the evidence at hand.

 

[Viper09]

Here's what I say:

If Tram wants powerscroll spawns and harrower, lets give Fel a Doom type dungeon with artifact spawns.

Regardless, you can take your PvP characters to DOOM. They just can't be Red. If you choose to be red, then deal with the consequences. 2 of my PvP chars are Red and so they stay in Fel. No big deal.

Yes, PvPers can adapt to PvM and go to Tram.
But this argument can ALSO be used to PvMers.
PvMers can adapt to PvP/PvM and go to Fel.

Tram players can easily go to Fel and Fel players (unless they are red) can easily go to Tram.

So, if Tram players want powerscroll spawns, then Fel players should get an artifact spawn.

 

[wrekognize]

Why all this talk about Trammel wants what fel has (powerscrolls/harry) and Fel wants what trammel has (doom)? It's nice they both have their own reasons to hunt. Lets leave it that way.


...

 

[Viper09]

Why all this talk about Trammel wants what fel has (powerscrolls/harry) and Fel wants what trammel has (doom)? It's nice they both have their own reasons to hunt. Lets leave it that way.


...

I agree to let it be. But Tram players keep begging for powerscrolls/harry.
I bet the main reason this thread showed up was because of those very threads.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

Oh wow you can go to UO's game code site and BUY a 7th slot and increased storage capacity.

That is so [rainbow colored flag here]

 

[Draconi]

Let me set Doom aside.

Now, for Stygian Abyss, which shares many qualities with Doom, we are designing portions specifically for the Felucca ruleset. So, at least, you'll be able to enjoy high profile parts of the new content.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

With a name like "Doom" how about if it was made that Fel was put into Doom? Allow Reds to recall and gate into Doom and make the dungeon itself a little part of Fel ruleset in Tram.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

With a name like "Doom" how about if it was made that Fel was put into Doom? Allow Reds to recall and gate into Doom and make the dungeon itself a little part of Fel ruleset in Tram.

I don't think Doom is big enough to hold Fel...

 

[Viper09]

I don't think Doom is big enough to hold Fel...

More than big enough to hold Fel it is.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

More than big enough to hold Fel it is.

 

[Setnaffa]

.

lol....let me fix this for you....things that you cant use in the other facet:

Fel: Power Scrolls, Factions, Double Resources
Tram: Malas, Luna, DOOM, Labrynth, Bedlam, Illshenar (which is tons of dungeons and the Gargoyle City), the area with Swoop and Dread Horn, Tokuno Cities, The Citadel

1. You can use Faction Runics in Tram.
2. You were able to go to Khaldun just last month in tram.
3. You can PvP in guild wars and your guildmates any facet you want.

Seriously, TRAM has a landslide more things than Fel. Quit being babies.

Fel: You can kill anyone that annoys you.

 

[Setnaffa]

Exactly what I was thinking, lmao. Only I paid for my 6th slot.
So let's clarify this for Setnaffa:
Unless rules have changed, and unless you payed for more slots. People come with 5 slots, not 7.

If you choose not to buy the 7th character slot (which includes the 6th if you don't already have it), then you get what you pay for (and you don't get what you don't). Actually, I believe (I could be wrong) the 6th character came with the 7AE or ML (maybe 9th AE).

 

[Viper09]

Fel: You can kill anyone that annoys you.

Not really. Not unless they kill you first

But seriously. If they are in guard zone and not flagged, you can try, lol.

In tram, someone who annoys you can just keep at it.

 

[Setnaffa]

I agree to let it be. But Tram players keep begging for powerscrolls/harry.
I bet the main reason this thread showed up was because of those very threads.

There are some that want all the Fel stuff in Trammel (without the PvP) and some who want the Trammel stuff in Fel. Personally, I like the fact you have to go to Fel to do some stuff and Trammel for other stuff. That's given me a good reason to do just about everything in this game.

 

[Setnaffa]

Not really. Not unless they kill you first

But seriously. If they are in guard zone and not flagged, you can try, lol.

In tram, someone who annoys you can just keep at it.

Guard zone abuse is annoying, but I rarely spend time in Fel GZ's except when banking. I don't remember the last time I used a Fel Gate.

Isn't there an "ignore" button somewhere in UO's config menu?

 

[Maplestone]

Personally I think Malas is best suited to be a massive order vs chaos PvP battlefield: two cities on separate continents connected by choak-point bridges ... if you had enough people and threw in some subsystems ... ( just let us Trammies migrate out to somewhere safe please )

 

[Viper09]

Guard zone abuse is annoying, but I rarely spend time in Fel GZ's except when banking. I don't remember the last time I used a Fel Gate.

Isn't there an "ignore" button somewhere in UO's config menu?

There is somewhere, I forget where.
But it doesn't prevent guards from being summoned if that's what you mean.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Can you back that up? It is definitely not true on my shard. Almost all of the biggest guilds on Atlantic also play in Fel.

Source: http://town.uo.com/guilds/shard_0.html

HOT, LNR, Killer Cows are primarily Fel guilds. Lot of members of the other guilds can also be seen on both facets. Only two years ago, six out of ten guilds on that list were primarily Fel guilds.

A quick look at the global list also shows presence of quite a few fel guilds even though I don't know every guild out there. I would say you are absurdly wrong to make that claim based on the evidence at hand.

I don't want to spend too much time on this....So yeah, these are going to be brief and reductionist. I've discovered that my thorough posts aren't read as often, so I'm trying to switch to reductionist. Takes less time and apparently has a larger audience.

Why guild size is a bad measure of facet population
Trammel stuff can be done by spontaneous groups of strangers. Fellie stuff can't. Spawns haven't been done by spontaneous groups of strangers since Age of Shadows.

What we need to judge facet population accurately
Relevant, specific data from the manufacturer. (x% of players go to Fel, x% never set foot in it.) We don't have that, so we have to find ways to infer it. If the manufacturer wants to just give that stuff up, I will of course go with what they say and not challenge it, because I'm not in a position to challenge that kind of data from the only possible source.

How I infer that Fel's population is lower than Tram's
(And in this case "Tram" refers to all Trammel rules facets.)

• The fact that they keep making more stuff that's Trammel only. (Why make stuff Trammel-only if the majority of players actually go to Fel?)
• They've said that most players never go to Felucca.
• You can walk through Felucca and never see a soul, even at "hot spots" like Despise, Fire, and the Yew Moongate. Try doing that in Trammel. You could do it on some shards but it's not as easy.

These ways to infer facet population make infinitely more sense than using the size of guilds, as shown above.

*shrugs*

The manufacturer is free to come on these boards and dispute me; I am simply in no position whatsoever to dispute what they say, so if they contradict me I'll go with it. This is the kind of thing that only they can really know with some certainty. They can be wrong about some stuff about the game, but these raw numbers, only they can know.

-Galen's player