no, i think it's a good feature, but maybe you should have to be un-flagged and standing near a stable master to do it.
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Bug: Log in/Log out Saves Pet
- Thread starter drinkbeerallday
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- Watchers 1
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rofl...
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UNLEASHED
Maybe we can get someone to restrict him to posting only in SnR to save them the hassle of moving 90% of his posts.......
I do have a proposed solution to the exploit: Remove the feature that allows the lamer tamer to abuse the game mechanics.Drinkbeer is right, I don't care how many of you idiots think he isn't.
People just exploit this feature, and never have to worry about their pets dying.
And almost every topic he brings up is a completeley legit concern in the PVP community.
I don't have a proposed fix for this problem, but it definitely is a problem.
Actually, a fix could be something like only returning your pet to the stable when you time out.
ya if they fixed this PvP would be a little more fair. fix the exploit.
A concern I would have with making this change is how thoroughly it would be tested before being implemented.
How closely linked these days are the flags for pets and pet owners? Does pet flagging work correctly now?
For some reason, I can't quite shake the idea that this could lead to situations where the game crashes for someone and if their pet was flagged before the game crashed, the pet will be led away from the scene of the crash, possibly over a server line. Or the tamer character dies and while still a ghost, his flagged pet is lured across a server line. In both cases, if the pet's flag doesn't reset properly or someone just keeps attacking the pet enough to get it to follow them so they can lead it far far away, the tamer could lose the pet permanently if he is not able to locate it again before it loses loyalty.
To the people suggesting this change, do you think the above types of situations are possible, and if yes, are they a fair result and what you want to see happen?
How closely linked these days are the flags for pets and pet owners? Does pet flagging work correctly now?
For some reason, I can't quite shake the idea that this could lead to situations where the game crashes for someone and if their pet was flagged before the game crashed, the pet will be led away from the scene of the crash, possibly over a server line. Or the tamer character dies and while still a ghost, his flagged pet is lured across a server line. In both cases, if the pet's flag doesn't reset properly or someone just keeps attacking the pet enough to get it to follow them so they can lead it far far away, the tamer could lose the pet permanently if he is not able to locate it again before it loses loyalty.
To the people suggesting this change, do you think the above types of situations are possible, and if yes, are they a fair result and what you want to see happen?
no it is not. apparently you didn't notice that that is the topic of this thread.
please re-read the thread.
My apologies for not wording my question more clearly. What I was trying to ask is whether or not pets become flagged when their owner becomes flagged, and vice versa.
i'm not 100 percent sure though i'm almost positive there was a publish that fixed this. if the owner is grey the pet is supposed to be grey and if the owner is orange or red the pet is supposed to be orange or red. i play a red so i usually don't pay attention to the color of the pet.
not sure what you mean by vice versa? the pet does not have a mind of its own (it doesn't attack anyone automatically) how can it make the owner flagged?
What if it wandered through a red character's or an opposing faction character's poison fields? Would that flag both the pet and its owner to the red character?
If you walk through a poison field, you are flagged to the caster (obviously)
If the pet is guarding you, that flags the pet to the caster as well since you are getting attacked.
If just the pet walks through the poison field, only the pet will be flagged.
A good idea would be to implement the same "heat of battle" rule to a pet if it is flagged to a character on the same server side. Naturally with this example here, the pet would not be the aggressor as the player casted the poison field just as others would walk into the field so they would be not flagged as the aggressor but free to attack the caster. Therefore the pet can still teleport and exit the server side.
However, if this is done, if you attack the pet, that character will be in the "heat of battle" as if the pet is a player.
Y
Yalp
Guest
So... If pets operate under the same no fleeing rule in pvp as do players, then it stands to reason that tamer + pet is a 2 player TEAM and therefore NOT in need of nerfing, since they, by rights, should be able to have the same strengths as any other template in the game?
Double standard?
Pets loose skill points when dead, pvp'rs player does.
Pets can not call their friends to gank, pvp'rs stock tactic.
Pets AI is a joke, player AI.. well that's debatable too.
Pets abilities nerfed to hell and back, player template + items invincible
Pets unable to have cheat programs which beef up their abilities, PVP'rs wont survive on the field without these programs
Pets don't have special arties dropped into the game which give them advantages, faction pvp have huge advantage with new arties.
Pets dont' run ghost cams or deliver intel when dead, Pvp'rs exploit the free 30-day trial period.
Pets don't lay out pathway blockages, Pvp'rs put the kitchen sink in your way
Pets don't use trap box exploits, Pvp'rs wouldn't be caught without them.
Pet's don't have UOA assisted macros, Pvp'rs have them set to the nth degree.
But sure.. let's nerf the pets to hell and back.. where do I sign up?
Double standard?
Pets loose skill points when dead, pvp'rs player does.
Pets can not call their friends to gank, pvp'rs stock tactic.
Pets AI is a joke, player AI.. well that's debatable too.
Pets abilities nerfed to hell and back, player template + items invincible
Pets unable to have cheat programs which beef up their abilities, PVP'rs wont survive on the field without these programs
Pets don't have special arties dropped into the game which give them advantages, faction pvp have huge advantage with new arties.
Pets dont' run ghost cams or deliver intel when dead, Pvp'rs exploit the free 30-day trial period.
Pets don't lay out pathway blockages, Pvp'rs put the kitchen sink in your way
Pets don't use trap box exploits, Pvp'rs wouldn't be caught without them.
Pet's don't have UOA assisted macros, Pvp'rs have them set to the nth degree.
But sure.. let's nerf the pets to hell and back.. where do I sign up?
Ya but that is the Red flagging on you. Not the pet flagging on the red. You'd still be able to summon your pet or log out/log in.
this is totally wrong. if you walk through a Red's poison field and the pet that is guarding you gets flagged for attacking the Red that is a bug. the Red should be flagged, not the player that walked through the field or the pet that attacked the Red.
umm yeah, that is the entire point of this thread. you just realized this?
The simple fix is to remove stat and skill loss from pets when they die.
And yes if the pet is an aggressor it should not be able to be saved by logging out.
Why is it ok for a red to have to run around all over the place for a res but its not ok for a tamer to have to do the same?
Each template has its pro and cons.
Being red means you have to deal with finding resses or getting ganked.. or whatever.
Being a tamer means you can do more damage etc.. but it should also mean that you do take some risk using your pet.
Having your pet die when you lose connection is no fun, but imagine the days when Reds had stat loss. I lost quite a few reds to stat loss from me losing my connetion.
And yes if the pet is an aggressor it should not be able to be saved by logging out.
Why is it ok for a red to have to run around all over the place for a res but its not ok for a tamer to have to do the same?
Each template has its pro and cons.
Being red means you have to deal with finding resses or getting ganked.. or whatever.
Being a tamer means you can do more damage etc.. but it should also mean that you do take some risk using your pet.
Having your pet die when you lose connection is no fun, but imagine the days when Reds had stat loss. I lost quite a few reds to stat loss from me losing my connetion.
M
Maggie
Guest
If they 'fix' this then they should allow you to use your pet ball of summoning in more places.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Interesting. Why do all nerfs and removable of feutures except for those rare cases come from pvp. Anyway let me trow in a nerf as well leave at is and remove the abilitie for any player to target a tamer and tamer pet and remove the abilitie from a tamer or tamer pet to target a player in fel. There 99% of all tamer trouble solved see am a genious 
Oh boohoo, I restated a point but going into a little more detail than others. But you never had a point other than discussion and that's what I'm doing. You're trolling in your own thread, just realized this? You're getting too sensitive over such little things.
But yes, the pet flagging as aggressor if the player it is guarding gets attacked may be a bug. But if you think about it:
The pet is separate from the player, despite the player controlling it.
It attacks someone who attacks whom ever it is guarding. So it would seem reasonable to have the pet be the aggressor since no one directly attacked the pet.
But another bug is that the red is flagged to the player, but once the dragon hits the red (since the dragon is aggressor), the player also becomes flagged as aggressor.
B
Babble
Guest
Did you send a bug report?
If not send one and wait until it gets fixed.
*sees windmills everywhere*
If not send one and wait until it gets fixed.
*sees windmills everywhere*
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I would agree with the original poster, if not for the fact that pets suffer skill loss on death...whereas players don't. To "balance" the issue, why not either have pets suffer no skill loss when they die in Fel, or have players' Uber-ridiculous weapons nerfed the same way ours are when we die??
An archer's bow, for example, does not become less effective upon death, and with bless/insurance...it actually remains with the person.
Our pets are left behind to fend for themselves, where they are surely killed by the people that we were fighting when we die. When we rez the pet, it suffers skill loss.
That is a double standard, and the only "balance" involved is the ability for a tamer to use pet balls or log in/log out to keep the pet from dying.
More to the point though...how many griefers in Fel would intentionally block a pet in an area where it could not be retrieved, and hold it there so that the tamer could not get his or her pet back??
The reason the log in/log out "bug" was added was due to people losing their pets and not being able to find them due to real bugs in the game.
So "fixing" this so-called bug, would in fact just be reverting back to an older, more troublesome, real bug.
An archer's bow, for example, does not become less effective upon death, and with bless/insurance...it actually remains with the person.
Our pets are left behind to fend for themselves, where they are surely killed by the people that we were fighting when we die. When we rez the pet, it suffers skill loss.
That is a double standard, and the only "balance" involved is the ability for a tamer to use pet balls or log in/log out to keep the pet from dying.
More to the point though...how many griefers in Fel would intentionally block a pet in an area where it could not be retrieved, and hold it there so that the tamer could not get his or her pet back??
The reason the log in/log out "bug" was added was due to people losing their pets and not being able to find them due to real bugs in the game.
So "fixing" this so-called bug, would in fact just be reverting back to an older, more troublesome, real bug.
The problem is that the flagging rules are barely a rule since there are so many bugs, especially when it involves follower(s). Right now if a tamer is attacked and uses his pet to defend himself, he will be flagged as agressor because the pet has a different flag as the tamer.
Furthermore, even if pet commands have been improved, the pet AI is such a disaster that sometimes the only way to control a pet is to logg off/in (talk about an online game!), especially since teleport has been broken.
Many tamers will disagree heartily with me, however, I am of the firm belief that auto-logging of pets should only ever occur when the pet is not flagged/has not taken aggro for the same time-out period as I have.
I do pvp as & when required with & without my pets and I absolutely agree that if I am flagged/aggroed or my pet is flagged/aggroed, then my pet should NOT auto-log.
Once I am ressed, a pet summoning ball linked to my pet will fetch my pet from whatever location in which I've managed to get it killed. If I am dim enough to wander around without a linked pet ball, more fool me.
I accept that there are consequences for my choices & actions, even in UO. If I make a poor decision which leads to the death/potential death of my pet, I expect to face those consequences.
Yes, I do train my pets. Yes, I'm very much aware of exactly how long pet training takes and how long it takes to regain lost skills on a pet after I've been dimwitted enough to get it killed.
I do pvp as & when required with & without my pets and I absolutely agree that if I am flagged/aggroed or my pet is flagged/aggroed, then my pet should NOT auto-log.
Once I am ressed, a pet summoning ball linked to my pet will fetch my pet from whatever location in which I've managed to get it killed. If I am dim enough to wander around without a linked pet ball, more fool me.
I accept that there are consequences for my choices & actions, even in UO. If I make a poor decision which leads to the death/potential death of my pet, I expect to face those consequences.
Yes, I do train my pets. Yes, I'm very much aware of exactly how long pet training takes and how long it takes to regain lost skills on a pet after I've been dimwitted enough to get it killed.
Pet ball should not work at all in Felucca Dungeon/T2A.
haha, yeah right.
so basically what you are saying is that you should be able to attack anyone with your pet willy nilly and if your little plan doesn't work out your pet should not suffer stat loss?
not sure what you are getting at here? all you have to do is wait for the aggro timer to expire and you will be able to retrieve your pet.
yep, and that won't change at all under my proposal.
nope, it wouldn't..
Log out Log in was made to find lost or stuck pets so make it work under the same conditions Soul Stones work you have to be in a safe place and inn or in your house. Log out log in should NOT be used for Pvp you have Pet balls for that. And you have chance of losing it to a thief or running out of charges. Like a dexer dies and losses his bandaids you should have to go get a new pet ball.
The best answer for your question is that it ALMOST works correctly. There is a loophole. If I command my pet to do something other than guard, it will continue on in its current flag state (either blue or grey) until I command it again.
EXAMPLE: I tell my dragon to "kill" the harrower. It is blue (green) as this is PvM. I then rez a red player who died in battle. I am now grey, but unless I command my pet during the time I am grey, the pet will continue on blue. Equally, if I was grey when I gave the kill command, it will continue on grey EVEN AFTER I AM NO LONGER FLAGGED, until I recommand it.
I will say, 90% of tamers who play in Fel (PvM or PvP) are aware of this loophole/situation and know to account for it.
They DONT, with one exception. In a champ spawn area, from 3rd level on, within ONLY the "lit" area (active spawn area), you may use a petball. So, you cannot summon a pet, anytime, ever, into the mage room in Fire, nor in the back of the bone pit in Despise. You cannot, ever, summon a pet to Fel Papua, and so on. Unless, of course, you exploit the log out/log in feature.
M
MR_CLEAN
Guest
I think pets that die in PvP should not suffer skill or stat loss.
My sword doesn't dimminish when I die.
But I do think the log out log in thing is cheap. The pet should not log out as long as it is agro'ed.
ah, ok good. I don't play a tamer or bother much with faction horse, swampy to know all of the details
I do wonder why it doesn't work except for 3rd level at a spawn. that seems strange.
I don't really care if pets suffer skill/stat loss in PvP or not, I just think her whole multi-paragraph whine really had nothing to do with the discussion, she just doesn't want her pet suffering stat/skill loss, which isn't really the issue here.
Thanks, Ailish. The pet summoning balls used to not work within faction strongholds either, but I haven't checked recently to see if that is still the case.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I think you will see that the whinning began right here:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1021199&postcount=1
If you don't care if the pet takes stat/skill loss...then why do you care if you are able to kill it? Unless your intent is to make it so that the tamer, with his or her control slots tied up in a dead pet, has to come back to the scene to retrieve their pet...so you can essentially kill them again, unarmed.
Either way, it sounds to me like you have been killed by tamers...and here complaining about something pretty much unrelated.
Sour grapes, perhaps?
For the record, I have only ever used the log out/log in method of retrieving my pets when they are missing...which is as intended.
But while weeks of training are going down the drain every time the pets are killed, vs. no real loss to warriors and mages...I think this method is acceptable enough.
Why do you even care then? This won't affect you at all. Please stop trolling and trying to change the subject.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
rolleyes:
So someone disagrees with you...so they are trolling? rolleyes:
I care because I care about the balance of the game.
And how exactly was this "changing the subject"? Were you not addressing the ability for a tamer to log out, then log back in and have their pet summoned to them?
I guess I mis-read your original post, because that is sure what it seemed like to me.
Drink beer all day?
It would seem so...
Trolling?
So someone disagrees with you...so they are trolling? rolleyes:
I care because I care about the balance of the game.
And how exactly was this "changing the subject"? Were you not addressing the ability for a tamer to log out, then log back in and have their pet summoned to them?
I guess I mis-read your original post, because that is sure what it seemed like to me.
Drink beer all day?
It would seem so...
Well those tamers who can't handle a bit of skill loss on a pet might want to remember that once upon a time you didn't have a bonded pet at all. Truly, if the skill loss is that big an issue to you, you shouldn't PvP with pets. In fact, you shouldn't take them out of the stables just in case they might die. *rolls eyes* Honestly, tamers these days truly need to think back and remember how lucky we are to be able to res our pets in the first place...
I've PvPd with my tamer as and when necessary since I started playing UO, and I have no issue with accepting that my pet will die in an unsuccessful fight. I can res my pet and re-train it. I'm responsible for keeping that pet alive and if I screw up I accept the consequences. Just as I accept insurance money loss if my characters die. I really don't see the problem with this. I don't feel the need to bring down any other classes simply because my pets take a bit of risk by my side. I can just as easily swap to another toon if it worries me that much.
Make pets time out after their aggro timer wears off, and if either player or pet is still flagged as aggressor, the tamer should get a message saying that their pet won't autolog for x amount of time or something so they know. Then if you need to use the auto log in areas where pet balls won't work, you simply have to wait for that timer and then log again to get the pet to log back in by your side. If the pet is left behind after the tamer logs out, it remains visible in game and killable, but when its timer wears out, it should be sent to the stables.
Wenchy
I've PvPd with my tamer as and when necessary since I started playing UO, and I have no issue with accepting that my pet will die in an unsuccessful fight. I can res my pet and re-train it. I'm responsible for keeping that pet alive and if I screw up I accept the consequences. Just as I accept insurance money loss if my characters die. I really don't see the problem with this. I don't feel the need to bring down any other classes simply because my pets take a bit of risk by my side. I can just as easily swap to another toon if it worries me that much.
Make pets time out after their aggro timer wears off, and if either player or pet is still flagged as aggressor, the tamer should get a message saying that their pet won't autolog for x amount of time or something so they know. Then if you need to use the auto log in areas where pet balls won't work, you simply have to wait for that timer and then log again to get the pet to log back in by your side. If the pet is left behind after the tamer logs out, it remains visible in game and killable, but when its timer wears out, it should be sent to the stables.
Wenchy
I'd have to disagree with this statement after reading your posts.
L
laurlo
Guest
hrm.. I find my pet doesnt auto log (or at least hadnt been) if I had been fighting... though honestly after losing a few pets I stopped trying to use the auto log option.. deeming it unreliable and buggy.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
By that same token, it is not tamers that are asking for a change here...
So...if the log out/log in thing is that big an issue to you, you shouldn't PvP against tamers. In fact, you shouldn't leave town at all in case you might see someone that has something you don't. *rolls eyes right back at you*
I have 3 tamers on 3 different shards and I'm asking for this to be changed.
You should not be able to save your pet from a possible death by simply log out/log in.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Again...please explain to me how it is balanced for tamers to suffer double loss upon death (insurance AND pet skill loss) when no other class has the same issue.
I agree, the log out/log in thing is a poor way to do it, and Laurlo said...it does not work 100% of the time, so it is unreliable. Pet balls work much, much better.
So my argument is that it is currently one way to keep tamers from suffering a double loss upon death that other classes simply do not face.
That is balance.
Just saying "screw tamers, let them retrain their pets! Warriors RULE!!!" is not balance.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
We also didn't have control slots. But the other classes whined and whined until we had to give up hunting with multiple large pets. Bonding was a trade off...so it's not like tamers were given some great and wonderful gift without giving anything up in return here.
I dont know what you all giving him so much crap for he's right. No its not a bug BUT its not right that a tamer can do this, the pet should be subject to the same aggressor system that the player themselfs are. AND YES I M A TAMER IN 4 TAMERS IN 2 SHARDS
Obviously your jokng right you think your pet should recieve the same as a player does its a pet. Heven forbid you did loose it BIG DEAL tame another and deal with it its a weapon used by tamers. Weps loose durablilty pets should loose skill kinda same thing
Not sure how to break this too you, but I am a tamer... Who happens to live in Fel. I'm not scared to leave town, to lose things and don't give a flying monkeys what the player beside me has or hasn't got *shrug* I believe a tamer shouldn't use lame tricks to save their pets when they screw up. I'm simply not as risk averse as some so-called PvP tamers seem to be.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I was PvPing with my tamer before Tram, nevermind pet bonding. So you can save the history lesson, I was there before, during and after. I knew some of the tamers who abused their power, even nice tamers who did the "claim - all kill" trick when it suited them... We had RP town stablemaster guys in 2 Fel towns on Europa, I remember the bloodbaths beside them all too well
If you want to think of bonding as a trade off for not having 5 WW's in tow, then think what you will. It was only a huge issue if you relied on having a lot of pets in tow to do anything, which I didn't. 5 slots give me more than adequate damage and defense with pets, so I don't see why you're still sour over it. Pet bonding is a huge perk to being a tamer and you know it. I'd much rather have bonded pets than any number of control slots. Would you rather go back to taming fresh pets whenever you lag out or someone hauls spawn onto your tamer? I think if that happened you, and many other tamers would be right in here screaming blue murder about it.
Wenchy
S
sapphirediablo11
Guest
Simple solution kill the pet, before the finish running and log,
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I never said I was "sour" over it.
I also never said I didn't like bonding.
I just said that bonding was added as a concession because of the addition of control slots...which I think was more than fair. I always thought using 5 dragons or WWs at a time was gratuitous at best. It doesn't mean it could not be done. Classes in UO get nerfed all the time.
It's just like the log in/log out thing. It was added so that when a tamer gets seperated from his or her pet, they don't have their control slots needlessly taken up by a pet they can't find.
But none of that really addresses the OP's original point. He wants to be able to kill our pets, just so they take the skill loss...otherwise, why should he care what happens to them? No one gains anything from killing a pet...besides knowing that it inconvenienced the tamer.
So, when the OP says he does not care about skill loss, I call BS, because I cannot see any other reason why he would care if I my pet was summoned via pet ball, log out/log in, or any other method.
To which, I ask again:
Please explain to me how it is balanced for a tame to suffer double loss, insurance and pet skill loss, when no other class suffers the same??
I still have not gotten a reasonable answer to that question.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
That's a pretty valid point...but your weapons start at their max stats, and finish at their max stats. When you do have to replace them, it only costs you gold, not months of your time training your weapons.
I suppose tamers could go out and buy trained pets from other players, much like warriors and archers go out and buy weapons from other players.
I think a fair compromise would be to eliminate pet skill loss in PvP...but apply the same agro rules to pets as to players.
You got no reasonable answer because there is no reasonable answer. Getting double skill loss when killing a pet is BS.
It is simply all to inconvenience a tamer. That is what the stat loss on pets is all about. People should just be happy that there is skill loss on dead pets to begin with.
So it comes down to the tamer to fight and win, or accept the consequences if they lose. If you don't feel comfortable with losing your pets skill points, then you shouldn't PvP with them. My pets sometimes die in PvM, so I retrain them. If they die in PvP then I do the same.
The pet ball won't work in some areas of Fel. Log out does. It also allows a PvP tamer to run a template without vet. Lacking vet is a real pain if your pets get killed in battle. But if you can avoid that happening at all, then you're able to run a stronger template without having to find a friend/spare account to res your pets. I have vet on all my tamers, but I know the templates I could run if I took vet out of the equation.
You lose those things when you die in PvM. In fact, you lose even more gold that way. The simple solution if you don't want those losses is to not take on more than you and your pets can handle. You don't have to PvP, or take on a big challenge in PvM. At least in a PvP death your pet isn't likely to die as you vet and resurrect it, thus getting it killed a second time. I find that infinitely more annoying than any PK in Fel hitting my pets.
Remember too, there are ways to protect your pets from a PvP death that don't require a log out: recall, pet balls, beating your opponent. It's quite a while since I had a PvP fight and my pets actually died. Which is why I don't think this is such a huge inconvenience. I'm not a great PvPer, so if I can survive ok with my pets, there's no reason why others can't too. I wouldn't suggest this change otherwise.
Wenchy
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