Bug: Log in/Log out Saves Pet

[drinkbeerallday]

edit: Log out/Log In (can't edit thread titles for some bizarre reason)

This bug (circumvention of PvP flagging rules) needs to be fixed.

Discuss.

 

[Xalan Dementia]

I take it your talking about people logging out when they die so thier pet doesnt get killed? this is not a bug. plain and simple.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

I take it your talking about people logging out when they die so thier pet doesnt get killed?

Yes.

Example: Tamer runs up and puts pet on foe. Things get hairy and the tamer runs away. Foe(s) decide to start killing the pet. Instead, the tamer simply runs away, hides, logs out and logs back in, retrieving the pet.

This is exploitation of a bug and is against the TOS and ROC. That said, I don't think anyone should be banned for doing it, but it should be fixed ASAP. If your pet is an aggressor in combat, no summoning, no log out/log in. Similar to not being able to recall. Also if you are in dungeon/T2A of Felucca you should not be able to summon your pet unless you are outside of the area. Meaning you should have to have full control over your pet while in Felucca Dungeon/T2A.

Plain and simple.

 

[Inspector]

Yes.

Example: Tamer runs up and puts pet on foe. Things get hairy and the tamer runs away. Foe(s) decide to start killing the pet. Instead, the tamer simply runs away, hides, logs out and logs back in, retrieving the pet.

This is exploitation of a bug and is against the TOS and ROC. That said, I don't think anyone should be banned for doing it, but it should be fixed ASAP.

How is it a bug? The devs put it in for a reason... maybe an exploitation of an intended feature.... but not against the TOS or ROC..

 

[Petrify]

Stop complaining about everything.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

How is it a bug? The devs put it in for a reason... maybe an exploitation of an intended feature.... but not against the TOS or ROC..

any exploit is technically against TOS and ROC.

i understand they put it in for a reason, the BUG is that while your pet is aggro, you can still do it.

can you recall after you attack someone? no. why should your pet get summoned away from dying after you told it to kill someone?

and my other suggestion is that simply because of the nature of Dungeon/T2A of Felucca I don't see any reason Pet Balls or Log Out/Log In should work there in the first place.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Stop complaining about everything.

 

[Viper09]

the dev's put in log out/log in so that tamers could save their pets when their pet is dying?

wrong.

try again.

It is implemented so if you have a problem with connection, making it to the stable, etc, they wont loose their pet. A good example is the resent lag problems and connection losses, tamers in that kind of rut wont loose their pets if they can't go anywhere due to the lag and the pet is with them. It's fine and far, far, far from a major problem and not a bug.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

It is implemented so if you have a problem with connection, making it to the stable, etc, they wont loose their pet. A good example is the resent lag problems and connection losses, tamers in that kind of rut wont loose their pets if they can't go anywhere due to the lag and the pet is with them. It's fine and far, far, far from a major problem and not a bug.

Do you PvP? If not I'm not sure how you can say this is "far far far from a major problem" How would you know? And if you do, what are you smoking?

Right, so after 2 minutes, When you are no longer flagged, you will be able to log out and log in and voila, there's your pet. It might be dead but that is the price you pay for attacking another player.

I don't see how it interferes with people being able to retrieve their pet? Please explain that to me.

 

[Viper09]

Do you PvP? If not I'm not sure how you can say this is "far far far from a major problem" How would you know? And if you do, what are you smoking?

Right, so after 2 minutes, When you are no longer flagged, you will be able to log out and log in and voila, there's your pet. It might be dead but that is the price you pay for attacking another player.

I don't see how it interferes with people being able to retrieve their pet? Please explain that to me.

I do PvP and I don't see this as a major bug. I would much rather kill the tamer than the pet. The pet is nothing more than an obstacle. Player gone, pets goes away, big whoop, lmao.

 

[Maplestone]

I keep forgetting about my pet summoning ball.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Stop complaining about everything.

What drama? He's right.

It's not a bug, it's a specifically programmed feature so that if a player loses connection he/she doesn't log back in to find their pet dead and gone. It's also not limited to PvP. It's also very useful in PvM, especially when the bug with Paroxy swampys was around. It's also a VERY good thing to be in game for those that play in off hours so they don't have to spend an hour or more trying to find a rez for a dead pet that got killed in PvM.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

it's a specifically programmed feature so that if a player loses connection he/she doesn't log back in to find their pet dead and gone.

I completely agree. 100%.

The BUG is, when a player attacks another player (terms: combat flagged, aggro, etc) the player may not recall and should not be able to summon a pet or log out / log in to save the pet as a result of their bad decision making skills.

It's also not limited to PvP.

Yes it is, it is a specific issue that has to do with the flagging system. This only relates to PvP.

 

[Moreeg]

I completely agree. 100%.

The BUG is, when a player attacks another player (terms: combat flagged, aggro, etc) the player may not recall and should not be able to summon a pet or log out / log in to save the pet as a result of their bad decision making skills.

I understand what you are saying, but it doesnt change the matter that the feature is needed. So if what you suggest is implemented, and a person cant log out/log in, and the feature protects those who get disconnected, then instead of logging out in this situation the person runs, hides and pulls the plug on their modem. The same thing is accomplished.

We cant punish the people who need this legitimate feature because someone abuses it, so we have to grin and bear it.

To be honest, these things are why I stopped PvPing. 90% of my time it wasnt about a PvP fight, it was about who could exploit best, run speed hacks, game the system, grief, gank. Then everyone waffles that everyone is overpowered and things need to be balanced. I spent more time irritated than I did having fun... but that isnt directed at you or anyone in particular... just rambling on, here.

 

[Kaleb]

I is abused by alot of PvPers. It works as intended and its not a bug. The problem is you have all these PvP tamers who will attack someone If the person Who He/she attacked turns out not to be a noob or caught in a bad situation and gets killed or runs off, they then proceed to Either log off to stable pet and log on to get rezzed, then retrieve their pet. or if they dont die they hide, logout,login, retrieve pet. In a PvP Zone and under certain conditions (EG: Flagged on someone or flagged Crim) Their pet should not be able to use this feature if it dies before the flag timer counts down in PvP(not including Mobs) then it dies. That's the way it should be like.

 

[Inspector]

You do complain about everything.

 

[ColterDC]

We all understand why this feature was added, but like many things in UO it was poorly implemented.

Since it has been added it is abused more by people saving their pets in situations where they shouldn't be able too than it has been used by people who the intended fix was suppose to help.

If the pet is aggro on something it should not be able to be "recalled" back to it's owner by use of log out/log in or by using a petball until it's flag has cleared.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

I understand what you are saying, but it doesnt change the matter that the feature is needed. So if what you suggest is implemented, and a person cant log out/log in, and the feature protects those who get disconnected, then instead of logging out in this situation the person runs, hides and pulls the plug on their modem. The same thing is accomplished.

the aggro flag lasts 2 minutes. if you attack someone, then leave the scene of the crime, you would have to wait 2 minutes before getting your pet back via ball/log out. you would be able to log out and back in, the pet just wouldn't come until your flag is cleared.

 

[Inspector]

I don't really get why your complaining... They have to log out in a pvp situation, if you really wanted them or their pets off the scene follow them off screen until they are out of the area, or think they are safely out of the area and wait for them to log and kill them. Either that or drop them when they are on screen and lure the pet outta the way then the tamer will think their pet is safe, go back after the tamers ghost is off screen and proceed to kill the pet.

 

[Arch Magus]

Drinkbeer is right, I don't care how many of you idiots think he isn't.

People just exploit this feature, and never have to worry about their pets dying.

And almost every topic he brings up is a completeley legit concern in the PVP community.

I don't have a proposed fix for this problem, but it definitely is a problem.
Actually, a fix could be something like only returning your pet to the stable when you time out.

 

[Arch Magus]

We all understand why this feature was added, but like many things in UO it was poorly implemented.

Since it has been added it is abused more by people saving their pets in situations where they shouldn't be able too than it has been used by people who the intended fix was suppose to help.

If the pet is aggro on something it should not be able to be "recalled" back to it's owner by use of log out/log in or by using a petball until it's flag has cleared.

this man speaks the truth

 

[Abyss]

It is a poorly planned feature but really in the end what does it matter? It isn't game breaking and there are FAR more important things that need to be balanced before even thinking about touching this one.

I do have a question tho for drink...If you hate this game so much why do you even play it? Clearly you have a problem with a LARGE portion of it.

Yeah I agree it has problems but coming on here crying about every little thing that bothers you really dilutes your ability to have any accreditation.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

what does it matter? It isn't game breaking and there are FAR more important things that need to be balanced before even thinking about touching this one.

I disagree. It is game breaking. These tamers have way too much power on the battlefield right now. You can barely manage to get the upper hand against them and right when you do they disappear and shortly after so does their pet. It is ridiculous.

I do have a question tho for drink...If you hate this game so much why do you even play it? Clearly you have a problem with a LARGE portion of it.

Yeah I agree it has problems but coming on here crying about every little thing that bothers you really dilutes your ability to have any accreditation.

I don't hate UO at all. Why would I be posting about all this stuff if I hated the game? Stop trolling.

And can you please explain to us what the dilutive properties of an ability to possess accreditation are? What on Earth are you talking about?

Seems to me you are ateempting to create some bizarre philosophical mine field to try and derail the thread.

Are you a "PvP" tamer?

 

[Redxpanda]

I'm kinda on the fence on this one.

I can completely understand his gripe. A pet shouldn't be able to warp back to the owner in a safe zone once it is the aggressor. I think it is a feature that was intended for those who get killed to get their pet back when they get killed in a war zone. Usually i can never get my pet back before it is dead and i don't pvp so i never really thought about that.

On the other hand, what the heck does it matter if the pet warps back to them. Its not like you can loot the pet once it is dead or somehow you get some kind of points for killing the pet so i dont really see the big deal if the pet warps back to the owner. I think changing this rule will just cater to the childish mentality that is UO PVP.

 

[Kaleb]

I'm kinda on the fence on this one.

On the other hand, what the heck does it matter if the pet warps back to them. Its not like you can loot the pet once it is dead or somehow you get some kind of points for killing the pet so i dont really see the big deal if the pet warps back to the owner. I think changing this rule will just cater to the childish mentality that is UO PVP.

Easy. Whats its about is you kill the pet it loses skill witch = the players power. if your in a battle you want to get the heavy hitters out first and keep them out for a while. Hence why we loot regs,pots,petals,and anything else thats battle worthy. PvP tamers abuse their power with greater dragons and dreadmares and should face punishment if they abuse that power (eg: Attacking people with their pets).

 

[Viper09]

Easy. Whats its about is you kill the pet it loses skill witch = the players power. if your in a battle you want to get the heavy hitters out first and keep them out for a while. Hence why we loot regs,pots,petals,and anything else thats battle worthy. PvP tamers abuse their power with greater dragons and dreadmares and should face punishment if they abuse that power (eg: Attacking people with their pets).

True, but most annoying tamers can res and heal their pet quickly enough that it doesn't really make too much of a difference, at least for gate fighting. Even if you kill the tamer, he will go to luna, res up, res his pet and be back in no time.
Now for fights elsewhere, being able to kill the pet can make a lot of difference and that is where I agree.

 

[Chaosy]

Let's post another worthless thread without justification to leave it to become a flame war.

Discuss!

Seriously, this is not a bug. This is working as intended. Yes, people abuse it, but I don't see the problem. Pet balance is what is broken, not auto-stable.

 

[Arch Magus]

Viper my friend, I'm sure Beer is talking about real PVP like at spawns, not Trammy Fel gate pvp.

Abyss, he's not whining about "every little thing".
Most things he's brought up are legitimate concerns that I've known about for years.

Why should a Tamer be able to send an overpowered dragon after you and then run/stealth 3 screens away only to instantaneously have their drag tele'd back to them because they knew the pet wasn't going to make it?

discuss..

 

[Arch Magus]

Pet balance is what is broken, not auto-stable.

Wrong.

Both are.

Pets sent to attack or are actively guarding someone should not be able to autostable due to logout. period.

 

[slayer888]

Should be fixed in my opinion because when someone raid our Stronghold, they call their pet come in to bite us..

Then when we bomb their pet, they will log off and log back in outside to take back the dragon...

Its not very fair in this type of situation.

I think that if the tamer attacks ppl first, he shouldnt be able to log in/off to get back the pet immediately.

 

[Dunarrack]

This feature is needed but can use a little more restriction. Pets should be affect by PvP rules if used in PvP. It's as simple as that. For all the "PvP"(ROFL) tamers out there using the excuses of PvM, well you NEVER EVER get stuck into the "flee timer" attacking a mod do you, so there you go. No excuses, if you cant PvP like a real PvPer and resort to using an overpowered pet, then you and your pets should follow the rules too otherwise dont even call yourselves PvPers.

 

[Abyss]

And can you please explain to us what the dilutive properties of an ability to possess accreditation are? What on Earth are you talking about?

Looks like a mistype on my end there.

It said originally.

"Yeah I agree it has problems but coming on here crying about every little thing that bothers you really dilutes your ability to have any accredibility."

Which ended up hitting the spellchecker and changed to accreditation instead of credibility. Now that I have cleared that up is further clarification needed?


And no I'm not a PVP tamer. Don't own one, never used one. Just guess it bothers me far less when pets go away from where I am than it does others....

 

[Hannes Erich]

I don't hate UO at all. Why would I be posting about all this stuff if I hated the game? Stop trolling.

Very few of drinkbeerallday's posts carry a dramatic tone. And if you are not a moderator, or a member of the dev team, then you are not the sole arbiter of issues that may constitute a "legitimate concern" for discussion. In fact, if you would be on the receiving end of drinkbeerallday's proposed solutions, then you should ask yourself whether you are capable of objectivity in this matter. None of the emotionally charged comments in this thread belong to drinkbeerallday.

Having said that-- drinkbeerallday, please try to remember that Mythic's UO feedback page is a far more efficient bug reporting tool than seeking our opinions. Mythic can't possibly be tracking every long-winded thread; And forum readers can't fix bugs!

 

[Dunarrack]

This is just another case of poor ingame design that WILL BE abused by people until the day finally comes and they will start a thread like "DEV sux they listened to whinners"

I have a legendary tamer (real skill) which I enjoy VERY much in PvM, never used him in PvP and his skills never gone to a stone. I am a 10-yr vet, call me old-fashioned all you want but back in my days, tamers in PvP is very low and had never taken serious. I am sorry.

 

[Wenchkin]

I think during a PvP fight, it shouldn't be possible to save your pet in that way. Make the pet timeout and log out after a certain time, but until then it should be visible and killable IMO. I'm not afraid of my pets dying in Fel, and if I did lose connection in a catastrophic way, (which has happened lol) it would be serious bad luck if that also happened during a PvP fight

Sometimes PvP tamers have to accept that risk exists and that it's ok. Sadly, too few have that attiude anymore.

If I saw a tamer with pet, and figured they'd pull a stunt like this, I'd have them on tracking if I could. Then I'd find their sorry hidden arse, reveal and kill it.

Wenchy

 

[5% Luck]

Well 1st thing is if you can get away with logging out in a pvp fight LOL ya know! Ok Ill stand still while you beat on me!. Or Ill pull your pet and leave you to attack me? I dont see it though I know it happens. To me LETTING someone get away with it is a bad skill set on the part of the players letting it happen

2ndly, My main tamer is a pally! With out this method of getting my fresh tames to the stable I would be doing ALOT more walking.

3rd, in the PvM scene saving your pet this way is imo just cheating. While i dont see it applicable to the pvp arena, in pvm I know Ive done it and felt it was wrong.

Nothing Huge here!

 

[Draxous]

I take it your talking about people logging out when they die so thier pet doesnt get killed? this is not a bug. plain and simple.

Yes it is.

You are exploiting a game feature that was designed to allow players to retrieve lost or stuck pets.

Exploiting the feature so your pet doesn't die is not why it was implemented: at least the developers never said "Hey, we're implementing this so you can save your pet from danger whenever you want to." and quite frankly... I'd be not only shocked but disappointed if they say... it's working as intended.

 

[Draxous]

3rd, in the PvM scene saving your pet this way is imo just cheating. While i dont see it applicable to the pvp arena, in pvm I know Ive done it and felt it was wrong.

I'm fighting a ninja stealther tamer...

they sick their pet on me and I proceed to start killing it.

They stealth off and log out/in to save it before I kill it... then less then 30 seconds later I see them back on my screen where I have to lather, rinse and repeat.

It's an exploit.

 

[Goodoljoe]

Either fix it or make non tamers reloging also place them in a safe location when a fight gets hairy

 

[Blesh]

I have a question.

Have you always been able to do this? Or was it a change that was made to fix a problem with pets?

If you've always been able to do this, I don't think it needs changed honestly. why change something that's been around for 11 years?

however, if it was a change that was made to fix a bug or something along those lines, I think it should be at least reviewed by the devs.

I have a hunch it was a fix for people losing pets when they didn't log out with their owners.

I'll admit, I have used it, and not just in pvp. This "Bug" saved me from having to find someone to res my swampy more times than I could even remember. If deff cheap. no doubt.

just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Draxous]

I have a question.

Have you always been able to do this? Or was it a change that was made to fix a problem with pets?

If you've always been able to do this, I don't think it needs changed honestly. why change something that's been around for 11 years?

No... you could not always do this.

There was a time when you could gate peoples pets out and if you dispelled the gate in time... the tamer would never know where they went. - that was changed as well so pets no longer will go through random gates.

There was a time when you had to actually watch your pet... and if it died, it was gone. - that was changed as well because people cried about the risks of losing all their hard work on a pet.

There was a time when you had to actually go out and consistantly tame pets because they would die often. - that was changed as well because people would rather have a cool colored pet rather than a profession of buying/selling pets to other players... or at the very least, making it so that only the rarest ones actually sell.


This feature is abused on both ends of the spectrum (in PvP and PvM) and we even have crystal balls of pet summoning! Why oh why would you even need this feature with those items?

People even abuse this feature to bring pets to places crystal balls of summoning won't allow you to... "you cannot summon that creature" message is there... but if you log out/in... *poof* here come's your pet.

The feature is constantly abused and it needs to be removed.

 

[Dunarrack]

I have a question.

Have you always been able to do this? Or was it a change that was made to fix a problem with pets?

If you've always been able to do this, I don't think it needs changed honestly. why change something that's been around for 11 years?

however, if it was a change that was made to fix a bug or something along those lines, I think it should be at least reviewed by the devs.

I have a hunch it was a fix for people losing pets when they didn't log out with their owners.

I'll admit, I have used it, and not just in pvp. This "Bug" saved me from having to find someone to res my swampy more times than I could even remember. If deff cheap. no doubt.

just my thoughts on the matter.

It wasnt like this. Old times when tamer dies he's pet will wonder around. Sometimes wonder too far and tamers couldnt find it and end up losing it (assuming the "immature" tamer didnt bond it to a petball). Because tamers were always hated in PvP, everytime the tamer dies people started to lure the pets away so far where the tamer cannot retrive it. Smart tamer will bond their pets to petballs or follow their pet as a ghost so they know at least where to look for it.

But we still have majority of dumb tamers who's reckless (maybe because it doesnt take them too much work to PvP?). Many of them are not careful and some of them ended up losing their pet. They came to the forum and whaa whaa'ed of course, and DEV listened and gave us this system we have rightnow.

A good fix would be making all pets follow crime/flee timer just like player. The current pet system compared to normal player flee system would indeed be a cheat/hack/exploit no question there. If PvP(rofl) tamers are so self respected as great "PvPers" then they shouldnt have any problem following the rules like all other real "pvpers" out there.

 

[Maplestone]

Have you always been able to do this? Or was it a change that was made to fix a problem with pets?

A client crash or network disconnect adds an extra layer of pain if you lose your mount, have to hunt it down and don't have a vet handy. It can be extremely frustrating, especially for a newer player without a well-developed network of contacts. It's an valuable sanity-saving mechanic.

 

[Sarphus]

The feature you're complaining about is not a bug. However, this a crybaby thread.

While you're at it, why don't you post about the bug where your bag of sending can't send a stack of 60k gold.

 

[Dunarrack]

A client crash or network disconnect adds an extra layer of pain if you lose your mount, have to hunt it down and don't have a vet handy. It can be extremely frustrating, especially for a newer player without a well-developed network of contacts. It's an valuable sanity-saving mechanic.

Which proves the point. It's been awhile since last time Ive seem any new player trying to PvP. And even if hes a new player he wouldnt be using his PET to pvp. Therefore hes pet wouldnt be affected by the flee timer and if the player dies pet is stabled.

PvM it will work the same way as is. Pets that didnt flag will work the same way as is. Pets abused in PvP and used to "INITIATE" an attack against a player should of course follow the pvp system.

 

[Dunarrack]

The feature you're complaining about is not a bug. However, this a crybaby thread.

While you're at it, why don't you post about the bug where your bag of sending can't send a stack of 60k gold.

For the sake of discussion.
Please stop trolling. reported.

 

[Draxous]

Have you always been able to do this? Or was it a change that was made to fix a problem with pets?

A client crash or network disconnect adds an extra layer of pain if you lose your mount, have to hunt it down and don't have a vet handy. It can be extremely frustrating, especially for a newer player without a well-developed network of contacts. It's an valuable sanity-saving mechanic.

Try carrying a pet ball of summoning... rather than looking for an easy way out.

By the same token... I shouldn't have to carry bandages on my warrior... I should just be able to log out/in and my HP should be refreshed every time I do so. [/sarcasm

Seriously... this is the craptastic types of justifications that got us here in the first place... remove the damn feature already. PvMers abuse it as much as PvPers do. It needs to gooooo...

 

[Draxous]

A client crash or network disconnect adds an extra layer of pain if you lose your mount, have to hunt it down and don't have a vet handy. It can be extremely frustrating, especially for a newer player without a well-developed network of contacts. It's an valuable sanity-saving mechanic.

Which proves the point. It's been awhile since last time Ive seem any new player trying to PvP. And even if hes a new player he wouldnt be using his PET to pvp. Therefore hes pet wouldnt be affected by the flee timer and if the player dies pet is stabled.

PvM it will work the same way as is. Pets that didnt flag will work the same way as is. Pets abused in PvP and used to "INITIATE" an attack against a player should of course follow the pvp system.

PvMers exploit the feature to bring pets into areas they aren't otherwise allowed to.

PvMers exploit the feature to save pets from dying because they themselves died... the pet should die. You're it's guardian, if you're dead and not guarding/watching over it... you should not still have control over its fate.


as just TWO examples.

We have pet balls of summoning.... which are insurable!!!! people need to start using them. Period.

After a while... every intelligent player will have pet balls tucked away in the bank for each of their pets incase they lose them... the lame ducks will be here crying about how they were too stupid to prevent their own misery.

So in summation... remove the feature from this game.

Thanks, Bye.

 

[ColterDC]

most annoying tamers can res and heal their pet quickly enough that it doesn't really make too much of a difference

I disagree with that statement.

Most PvP tamers do not have Vet on their templates, which is yet another reason why them being able to always save their pet from dying needs to be fixed.

Sure they can go soulstone Vet on their char or go get a rez from someone else. But at least that would take them and their pet out of the battle for awhile.

 

[Lord Kynd]

Yes.

Example: Tamer runs up and puts pet on foe. Things get hairy and the tamer runs away. Foe(s) decide to start killing the pet. Instead, the tamer simply runs away, hides, logs out and logs back in, retrieving the pet.

This is exploitation of a bug and is against the TOS and ROC. That said, I don't think anyone should be banned for doing it, but it should be fixed ASAP. If your pet is an aggressor in combat, no summoning, no log out/log in. Similar to not being able to recall. Also if you are in dungeon/T2A of Felucca you should not be able to summon your pet unless you are outside of the area. Meaning you should have to have full control over your pet while in Felucca Dungeon/T2A.

Plain and simple.

then do something about at cahmp spawns and event spawns when your fighting something or even if something loots you and then it goes 'poof'.
that is a bug.

all pet's log out when you do , that is not a bug
maybe you shouldn't fight tamers ?