Vampiric Nerf

[Basara]

Exploit means that it's a bug or unintended game mechanics characteristic that the player is taking advantage of.

It's nothing more than utilization of a LONG KNOWN game mechanics characteristic END OF STORY.

End of the extent of your ability to rationalize, maybe, but not end of story.

It is by definition an Exploit, PERIOD.

Nowhere in the definition of "Exploit" does it say that an Exploit HAS to be considered illegal. Or, that it's any less wrong to do, even if not ruled illegal.

Most of these arguments for the ability to use equipment to toggle on VE, then remove the equipment just don't get it...


Even when, for example, cockfights were still legal in some states, doesn't mean that they were the right thing to do with poultry.

To use a more accurate analogy (not aimed at anyone, just a generic example)

Trying to argue that it isn't an exploit is like trying to argue that it's okay to have sex with one's step-mother because she isn't your biological parent, when she's still married to one's father. While there may be scads of porn movies out there with that plot, you're not in one of them.

 

[manufacturedsoul]

End of the extent of your ability to rationalize, maybe, but not end of story.

It is by definition an Exploit, PERIOD.

Nowhere in the definition of "Exploit" does it say that an Exploit HAS to be considered illegal. Or, that it's any less wrong to do, even if not ruled illegal.

Most of these arguments for the ability to use equipment to toggle on VE, then remove the equipment just don't get it...

Actually bro you apparently just don't "Get It". Hate to rain on your superiority complex / whine fest but if this is an exploit so is about half if not more of the things people currently do in game which really kinda makes weather or not it is actually a "real" exploit by definition kinda a mute point. The only "true" exploit of this would be someone who used soulstones to get 100% of their necro and then removed it and stayed vamp which doesn't involve +skill items at all. This I agree should be fixed however most people don't do this "most" have to invest at least 20-40 points in Necro to get this to work and have the items to back those invested points up. Which also means 20-40 less points to use for something else. What sacrifices do tamers make for all their "exploits"?? NONE PERIOD!!!

In fact if this is an exploit then tamers would have to be the biggest exploiters in UO via +skill items and they don't even have any negatives like a sampire does like dying and having to re-equip the necro gear on yourself re-cast vamp re-equip the "real" gear and then get back into the fight. Last i checked when a tamer dies his "free" pets aren't ejected from the stables. Last I checked the pets he shouldn't even be able to control or bond with don't become unbonded and go instantly wild. When those things are addressed first maybe then we can worry about Sampires. Till that happens tamers will remain the biggest exploiters of +skill items PERIOD!!!!!

But why O' why don't we see 500 threads about nerfing tamers you ask? I'll tell you why because 90% of the people whining here to nerf sampires play either PVM or PVP tamers and don't like the fact that another template can stand up to or even best their gimpy dragons and they definately don't want their gimpy no skill styles to be nerfed because then they might actually have to learn how to "play" the game. Not to mention half these whiners don't even know what they are talking about and you sir are no exception. Being a Mod doesn't change that simple FACT sorry to say.

I suggest you go back to killing ice orge lords with your greater dragon and your +30 some skill items while you eat cheetos and watch Springer. Not to mention your analogy has to be one of the stupidest thing i've read in a really really really long time. Simply posting that jibberish proves in and of itself beyond a resonable doubt you not only have got no clue but don't even know what a real analogy is. But were are suppose to believe you know what an "exploit" is. LOL get real man PERIOD.... KTHX Buhbye....

 

[UOKaiser]

Pardon me for not being leet enough to chug whilst in vamp form, I came from the era of bowyers whom got thier bows from loot...not from crafting. I was wrong...feel better?

I did play vamp form though, but if you dont chug and havent played one for two years...well...you fill in the rest. However try not to fill in the blanks with *nuh-uh*...or *never*...or *not possible*, thanks.

Yes much better I dont want false information given to players who go out and invest millions and time in making there first sampire then realize hey I can't cure poison whith a potion.

I come from the beggining and am tired of nerf this nerf that nerf everything I dont use. I have sampire and tamer I dont want to see any more nerfs even if they want to nerf stealing or item identification more I just dont want to see it. Everyone should play the game creatively using imagination and skill without worrying about things like this.

Nerf happens because of problems in PVP. This one doesnt effect it in any way and am worrying that DEV will start nerfing everything they can. They just nerfed spellweaving and it's not used in PVP really. If they Nerf everything what are we gonna be left playing?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Yes much better I dont want false information given to players who go out and invest millions and time in making there first sampire then realize hey I can't cure poison whith a potion.

I come from the beggining and am tired of nerf this nerf that nerf everything I dont use. I have sampire and tamer I dont want to see any more nerfs even if they want to nerf stealing or item identification more I just dont want to see it. Everyone should play the game creatively using imagination and skill without worrying about things like this.

Nerf happens because of problems in PVP. This one doesnt effect it in any way and am worrying that DEV will start nerfing everything they can. They just nerfed spellweaving and it's not used in PVP really. If they Nerf everything what are we gonna be left playing?

I think you should take a second look at Basaras post. Cry me a friggin river about gold bud, because gold is no excuse for the legality of an exploit. Again, let me reiterate...if you wish to use a form that has a REQUIREMENT of 99 necromancy to cast, you should need to either OWN that skill @ 99 OR be required to WEAR the items you are using to go into vamp after its cast. Whining about having to spend money on items to use a skill you dont have is laughable at best.

Try buying gas sometime with money you dont have *on you*...telling the attendant to put it on your tab will earn you a big laugh and perhaps a trip to jail regardless of how much money you really have. Basically skills arent based on credit, they are based entirely of what you have *on you*...not what you dont.

Also...this isnt about a skill I dont use....I have used it...and I dont like the imbalance of it. Any template based entirely off a single spell they shouldnt be able to cast sets off nerf bells in my mind. If you cannot even see this simple idea, then I am done with the ignorance. REsponding to your nitpicking over the ability or inability to chug is a moot point.

The biggest point I hope devs notice here is the reasons people give to legitamize the form are:

1) This template cost me money
2) Its not an exploit because I say so
3) If you nerf it I will quit
4) If can use it now, it is not an exploit
5) I cant chug cures!!!!
6) This form has no effect on anyone
7) But...but...I SHOULD be able to solo doom and peerless!!!!
8) It doesnt have an effect on PvP because I say so...


Did I forget anything?

 

[Omnius]

you've never heard of a credit card huh?

 

[Beefybone]

It has a requirement of 99 to cast, not to maintain. That it "should" be otherwise is your opinion alone. Cripes, you don't even know how the spell works now, much less come off as some authority on how it should work.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

you've never heard of a credit card huh?

Look retardo...having a credit card is a form of payment no? If you dont have it on you its as good as non existent right?

STFU and quit being a troll, if you want to add something legitament to the conversation do so...the smarmy BS has no use here unless you wish to be flamed.

(PS...beerman scoffs @ u)

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

It has a requirement of 99 to cast, not to maintain. That it "should" be otherwise is your opinion alone. Cripes, you don't even know how the spell works now, much less come off as some authority on how it should work.

EXACTLY!!! Thats the whole issue here. Thanks for wrapping it up for me in such a neat little package. (see Basaras posts for more detail if too dull to comprehend or *get it*)

I dont know how it works? LOL...since when were you an authority on what I do or do not know? Again, if you have a valid arguement...state it...trolling for my sack however does nothing for you beyond showing you are incapable of stating your case. Troll more?

 

[Kith Kanan]

End of the extent of your ability to rationalize, maybe, but not end of story.

It is by definition an Exploit, PERIOD.

Nowhere in the definition of "Exploit" does it say that an Exploit HAS to be considered illegal. Or, that it's any less wrong to do, even if not ruled illegal.

QUOTE]

Sooo because you dont like it you get to decide its an exploit ... I dont like tamers so the class is an exploit period..... works for me.......

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Sooo because you dont like it you get to decide its an exploit ... I dont like tamers so the class is an exploit period..... works for me.......

thats some poor logic.

This has nothing to do with liking or not liking it... it has to do with the ruleset not fitting the currrent in-game system...hence being called an exploit. People complain about change but change is necessary anytime you have an actively changing enviroment. When something becomes overpowered change is the only thing that can bring balance to the game.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

If you think people in vampire form can do either of these things, then you clearly don't know enough about the topic to have an opinion. You should go sit down and be quiet now.

sorry but a simple cure pot doesnt do THAT much dmg to you...neither does arch cure. (in the movies garlic will kill a vampire but not in UO silly...if you cant take some HP damage from a cure pot in vamp at a peerless you are soloing you have other issues to contend with)

Sit in the corner and be quiet? no ty.

Lmao.

It appears that somebody may be talking about something of which they have no clue.

Please PM me if you wish to learn a bit about pots & pvp in general son. If I dont respond you could also just ask the first person you run across in Felucca as its quite common knowledge there.

 

[Beefybone]

I'm still laughing hysterically at the notion that you can have an "exploit" without there being an actual bug.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

Then Protection,Mgic Reflect and Reflective armor would need the same nerf.

That's fine. I'd be happy if arch protect was no longer an "offensive" spell that totally screwed me up until I swapped jewelry and removed it.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

leave this harmless pvm feature alone. it changes nothing except bother some few angry folks.

People using jewelry to get to VE without much necro doesn't bother me.

What would bother me is if the dev's lived up to their actions of the recent past and overreacted horribly because of the folks that complain endlessly about this.

They pretty much destroyed Ilshenar dungeon romps with that silly bag of sending nerf, made it a real pain to be an archer in Doom with the vendor buy/sell change, and I still can't figure out why they are beating on spellweaving focus now...I don't want them to use VE as an excuse to make jewelry not count for skill or something else equally silly.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Lmao.

It appears that somebody may be talking about something of which they have no clue.

Please PM me if you wish to learn a bit about pots & pvp in general son. If I dont respond you could also just ask the first person you run across in Felucca as its quite common knowledge there.

As I said to you before...the only thing I ever see of you ingame while I am around is the back end of your mount. Other than that all I know is you frequent Luna OFTEN, I hardly think think qualifies you as an expert at anything...especially not PVP.

The funny thing here is that you have the same opinion I do over Vamp, but act like a ****** because I busted your balls *somewhere else*. Appears someone needs a hug.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I'm still laughing hysterically at the notion that you can have an "exploit" without there being an actual bug.

Laugh away...proves to me what I have been thinking all along...I dub thee noobsauce. Any semi intelligent Vet knows well enough that many an exploit starts out as a *legit issue*that ends up being deemed a bug. (most of this occurs when players discuss a matter and it comes to light of the dev team, and considering their schedule and lack of manpower...this often takes time.) Keep laughing and we will see who laughs last.

 

[RoycroftLS]

So much arguing here, and it all comes down to the simple question:

Should a character be able to retain semi-permanent benefits of a skill (or a spell that has a skill requirement) when that character no longer has the necessary amount of skill points in that skill?

I say no, simply for the fact that it goes against the spirit of the game. Those skill points a person saves by not permanently having the required skill are obviously going somewhere else, so while the skill/spell is in effect they are utilizing more real skill points than their skill cap allows.


To address some of the arguments I've read here:

The "tamers are doing it too" argument is rather silly. Just because someone else is bending the rules doesn't make it right for you to also bend the rules. It should be fixed in all cases, whether it be taming, necro, discord, or whatever.

The "but you need the right items and have to reapply it each time" argument is just as silly. The difficulty of the task might earn you style points, but it has no bearing on the task's legality. Certain exploits in the past required the exact timing and coordination to crash an entire shard, but that doesn't mean it was anywhere near appropriate to do so.

As for the "without this, dexxers are not a viable PvM option" justification, if you feel your class is broken then you should bring that up with the devs. The solution isn't to take matters into your own hands by using a flawed game mechanic. By that rationale, a player could justify his scripting because it's too hard to earn items the legit way.

 

[Beefybone]

Laugh away...proves to me what I have been thinking all along...I dub thee noobsauce. Any semi intelligent Vet knows well enough that many an exploit starts out as a *legit issue*that ends up being deemed a bug. (most of this occurs when players discuss a matter and it comes to light of the dev team, and considering their schedule and lack of manpower...this often takes time.) Keep laughing and we will see who laughs last.

One can repeat themselves ad infinitum, but no amount of repetition will create a bug to "exploit" where none exists. Vampiric Embrace is not currently intended to repeatedly check a player's Necromancy skill for maintenance. Period.

You make think this is unbalanced. You may think it ought to be changed. But it is not a bug, no one from EA has ever said it was a bug, and no GM will take action on it as a bug. Thank you for this opportunity to educate you.

And yes, I'm still laughing. Hard.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Lmao.

It appears that somebody may be talking about something of which they have no clue.

Please PM me if you wish to learn a bit about pots & pvp in general son. If I dont respond you could also just ask the first person you run across in Felucca as its quite common knowledge there.

As I said to you before...the only thing I ever see of you ingame while I am around is the back end of your mount. Other than that all I know is you frequent Luna OFTEN, I hardly think think qualifies you as an expert at anything...especially not PVP.

The funny thing here is that you have the same opinion I do over Vamp, but act like a ****** because I busted your balls *somewhere else*. Appears someone needs a hug.

I am quite satisfied in knowing 2 facts Cowboy

1) You have proven that you will vehemently argue a point about which you have 0 actual knowledge(as evidenced by your total lack of Vamp Embrace mechanics in this very post)

2) You have some kind of personal issue with me although I have no idea who you may be ingame(as evidenced by your ridiculous quote in this same thread in which you state that you check out my backside)

Flame on little Cowboy

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I am quite satisfied in knowing 2 facts Cowboy

1) You have proven that you will vehemently argue a point about which you have 0 actual knowledge(as evidenced by your total lack of Vamp Embrace mechanics in this very post)

2) You have some kind of personal issue with me although I have no idea who you may be ingame(as evidenced by your ridiculous quote in this same thread in which you state that you check out my backside)

Flame on little Cowboy

considering the last post in this thread was a week ago who would you say has the *issue*?


and


in reply to:
#1) Seems you are implying that since I forgot one element that I am completely without knowledge on vamp form? Wow, good job on coming to that conclusion. For that you can go outside without your helmet after dinner! YAY!

#2) Personal issue with you? Not at all...it appears just the opposite considering you dug up a week old thread just to post a spiteful comment. My comment dealing with your backside was nothing personal, it was a statement involving your gameplay. I said the only thing I see of you in fel was your backside because you were always running away. If I am not mistaken thats not personal...thats fact...

Thanks!

 

[galefan2004]

Like OMG ok. This hasn't been on the front page for like 3-4 days. Definately time to post a new thread about it.

FFS, if you want to keep this issue going then bump one of the 1000+ threads that have debated it.

I think stratics needs to make it so that it is against the ROC to make troll posts about GD damage and VE nerfs.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Like OMG ok. This hasn't been on the front page for like 3-4 days. Definately time to post a new thread about it.

FFS, if you want to keep this issue going then bump one of the 1000+ threads that have debated it.

I think stratics needs to make it so that it is against the ROC to make troll posts about GD damage and VE nerfs.

It was halfway off the page again silly! What did ya have to bump it for?
RAWR!

 

[Crack Head Bob]

If this gets fixed then the "exploit" where people get extra resists with inscribe should be fixed too. There are a few people i know, including myself that used soulstones to put inscribe on a char, cast reactive armor and magic resist, just to get an extra 5 to each elemental resist.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

If this gets fixed then the "exploit" where people get extra resists with inscribe should be fixed too. There are a few people i know, including myself that used soulstones to put inscribe on a char, cast reactive armor and magic resist, just to get an extra 5 to each elemental resist.

That soulstone can only be used once in a 24 hour session. One ward removal negates your action for an entire day. Vamp is also affected by ward removal but there is no timer limiting a char in vamp from casting it again and again.
Nice attempt to *jack* the thread though...I give you a 9/10 for smoke and mirrors.

 

[Beefybone]

I seriously want to see tamers lose stable slots the minute they take their jewels off, with the pets landing in their lap and going wild if they don't have enough control slots for them all. Stupid exploiters.