NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Changes in Testing

[PaithanTheElf]

In todays game I don't think splinter disarm is overpowered anymore. It's the one way to effectively kill bushido parry dexxers- and this is coming from someone who has mainly played a bushido parry dexxer for the past half a year. But I think the slow affect on splinter could definitely be reduced to about 3 seconds (the same time I think the waki slow should last for). I also think both slow effects should be cleanse-able by apples (the same way sleep is).

Well, we are allowed to disagree. It wouldn't be the first time.

I think having two specials, a walk, and possibly a hit spell all go off at once is overpowered and I'm sticking with that.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Splinter alone is actually pretty sweet as-is. Trevor's fork comes to mind when he focus attacks.

That being said, I think it would be gaudy as hell to have a mod that intermittently disables your weapon specials. Like that just has a "third party" feel to me.

IMO, a clean way to do it would be to reduce the duration and literally have that be the only change. Disarm splinter is only OP because unless you had a bandage already going, you're stuck for what, 4-5 seconds? I also agree that its one of the few ways to kill bush/parry/weave/chiv chars.

 

[virem]

I just want to thank everyone who has come out to TC this week and provided feedback. This has been a long week and I have taken a lot of time to reflect on your feedback.
It is my opinion that ranged Dexers(archers/throwers) out class every template in DPS in this current Meta and that focused mages even with 30 sdi are still not close.
The proposed changes to the ranged weapon damage calculation taking the swing speed of the weapon into account is to help to solve this issue.
My goal is to add more diversity in templates and I feel that the range in DPS must be tweaked in order to open up templates. I also feel that the increase of ranged DPS has pushed templates to rely on parry more for survivability.
I understand that DPS is not the only factor to balance but I view it as an important step forward. Thanks again for your patience during this process.

Still don't understand why you are changing focus spec from 30 to 25 SDI then, everyone knew the problem was archers dictating the meta. Make the archer changes now and see if any mage changes are needed down the line, including the supernova change.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Splinter alone is actually pretty sweet as-is. Trevor's fork comes to mind when he focus attacks.

That being said, I think it would be gaudy as hell to have a mod that intermittently disables your weapon specials. Like that just has a "third party" feel to me.

IMO, a clean way to do it would be to reduce the duration and literally have that be the only change. Disarm splinter is only OP because unless you had a bandage already going, you're stuck for what, 4-5 seconds? I also agree that its one of the few ways to kill bush/parry/weave/chiv chars.

I am not sure why it would disable your weapon special? It just wouldn't proc when they are toggled. So a person would actually have to plan an attack a little more instead of just waiting for everything to proc at once. You would wait for a splinter to proc and THEN do your specials. Wouldn't want people to have to think though.

 

[OREOGL]

Good lucky killing someone with a thrower while Armor ignore is there number 1 go to for DPS doing 30 damage Ai's and 8 damage running shots.

That is interesting the other day running shot was doing 22. I didn't even think to check it again...

Tonight probably

 

[cazador]

I do not believe I have made a single suggestion or comment on PvP changes. I was commenting on the environment in which these discussions are taking place.

BE GONE, stealth crafters of Siege! Lmao jk..


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[leet]

That is interesting the other day running shot was doing 22. I didn't even think to check it again...

Tonight probably

Not on a throwing weapon it wasn't. Talking about gargoyles here

Unless they are cursed, but now that doesn't matter with physical changes.

 

[OREOGL]

Not on a throwing weapon it wasn't. Talking about gargoyles here

Unless they are cursed, but now that doesn't matter with physical changes.

Good point I had only tried out a few bows.

I'll try and see tonight if I have time.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I am not sure why it would disable your weapon special? It just wouldn't proc when they are toggled. So a person would actually have to plan an attack a little more instead of just waiting for everything to proc at once. You would wait for a splinter to proc and THEN do your specials. Wouldn't want people to have to think though.

Idk. I'd be pissed if my butcher knife didn't disarm someone simply because splinter decided to go off instead. I could of course carry a non-splintering butcher knife. Just my opinion. Carry on!

 

[Revan123]

Apples don't need to remove forced walk. because Bandages already do...
You don't even need Healing or Anatomy for this to occur... Forced walk is removed when the bandage is done being applied. you do need healing for it to stop the bleed ticks from splintering though. I'm sure it's the "positioning" you're worried about though.

You're talking about splintering weapon. I was talking about splintering weapon and frenzied whirlwind. Not everyone uses bandages.

 

[Revan123]

I just want to thank everyone who has come out to TC this week and provided feedback. This has been a long week and I have taken a lot of time to reflect on your feedback.
It is my opinion that ranged Dexers(archers/throwers) out class every template in DPS in this current Meta and that focused mages even with 30 sdi are still not close.
The proposed changes to the ranged weapon damage calculation taking the swing speed of the weapon into account is to help to solve this issue.
My goal is to add more diversity in templates and I feel that the range in DPS must be tweaked in order to open up templates. I also feel that the increase of ranged DPS has pushed templates to rely on parry more for survivability.
I understand that DPS is not the only factor to balance but I view it as an important step forward. Thanks again for your patience during this process.

The best way to go about it is to simply nerf bow base damage by about 10%. Tweaking damage based on swing speed and all that other stuff is nonsense. Bows already have varying base damages based on how fast they shoot.

Archers do NOT need to be uber nerfed. Again they will not be able to kill ANYBODY. That is why along with my 10% nerf in base damage, I also propose a 5% reduction in parry chance across the board, and returning mortals to diminished returns, but with lower times (6 seconds on first mortal, 3 seconds on second).

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Idk. I'd be pissed if my butcher knife didn't disarm someone simply because splinter decided to go off instead. I could of course carry a non-splintering butcher knife. Just my opinion. Carry on!

I don't think you're understanding the concept.

Toggle special>SW cannot proc.

No Special Toggled> SW can Proc.

There is no 1 or the other. If you toggle a special, then SW cannot go off. So you use auto attack to proc SW, then when ready hit your special move macro.

 

[Revan123]

Still don't understand why you are changing focus spec from 30 to 25 SDI then, everyone knew the problem was archers dictating the meta. Make the archer changes now and see if any mage changes are needed down the line, including the supernova change.

He's just slowly learning now Virem. He just realized Archer DPS was OP in the end of 2016. Just give him time man Haha.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I don't think you're understanding the concept.

Toggle special>SW cannot proc.

No Special Toggled> SW can Proc.

There is no 1 or the other. If you toggle a special, then SW cannot go off. So you use auto attack to proc SW, then when ready hit your special move macro.

Thank you.

 

[Revan123]

@Bleak Please strongly consider these suggestions. On atlantic alone I play an Archer, Wrestle Parry Mage, a Mystic Parry Mage, a Deathstriker, a Bushido Tamer Dexxer, and a bushido parry holy fister; and whether my opponents want to admit it or not, I am a top tier player on every single one of those templates. No one enjoys variety more than me. Even when I played WoW for one summer when I was 16, I worked about 6 different characters to level 30 and only one character to like 45. I never even finished a character because I liked playing and learning about the different classes. I am about as impartial as it gets. I don't favor any one class. My only agenda is to balance the game, add variety, and to make the game fun and improve PvP for EVERYONE. I know game mechanics as well as anyone and playing so many different templates I know what will make this game loads of fun for everyone.

Here's what we need to do.

1. Reduce base damage on bows by about 10%. All of these complex reduced damage changes are pointless, because the base damage on bows already scales with a weapon's speed. Just reduce the base damage. What you are currently looking to implement will nerf Archers to uselessness. Trust me. Ask @de LEET ed. He may have main'ed an Archer for the past couple of years, but he's a top tier player that understands mechanics and knows what he's talking about.
2. Reduce moving shot damage by 20%. Decreasing chance to hit means it will still hit overly-hard sometimes, and not at all other times. Let's just reduce the damage overall and reduce the RNG super hits.
3. Reduce parry chance by 5% across the board. (will result in ~15% less parried blows with 120 parrying w/ a shield).
4. Return mortals to the way they used to work, where the duration of each successful mortal hit after the first would be halved, but lower the overall duration time of mortals (from 8 to 6 seconds / 4 to 3 seconds on second mortal, etc), and increase the duration of time that mortal duration will be diminished. With damage nerfs, Archers will still need a way to kill people with parry.
5. Make cleansing winds remove mortal + heal, but heal at a reduced amount (the same way it works against poison).
6. Make Spirit-Speak heal for way more damage. This isn't 2003. The skill needs a MAJOR buff.
7. Increase waki slow duration from 2 to 3 seconds (used to be 4.5) and make it cleansable by apples
8. Eliminate tactics requirement ENTIRELY. This is completely necessary to give tank/archer mages the template versatility they need to be viable. Reducing it by 30 is not enough.
9. Increase SDI cap to 20 (already doing that).
10. Do not implement a delay on supernovas. This is an utterly ridiculous idea that the community even voted against (not including the top tier pvp'ers that are banned from here that all think it's a bad idea). Supernovas are just fine as is, but if you're SUPER INTENT on nerfing them, because you think they're OP for the same reason the LS players who don't even use them do, then take chad's advice and nerf the damage to 10 direct damage, and give it a 10% increase for every 10 alchemy skill, making it do 20 damage at 100 skill.
11. Keep the SDI cap for focus spec at 30. With a lower parry chance, parry focus specs will get disrupted more; and with 20 sdi, mystic burst damage will equal that of a 30 sdi focus mage. 25 sdi will not be enough for focus mages to compete with mystics- everyone will stop playing focus mages (eventually). The issue is not parry focus mage damage, it's how hard they are to hit. Just do the math. If we reduce their parry chance marginally, and reduce archer damage marginally, it will balance the playing field for EVERYONE.

*Updated*

 

[Mervyn]

I really like all the mysticism changes which are not actually balancing issues, they were more like bug fixes, however does anyone object to making stone form go back to forced walk? it now being so easy to fit FC4 on a suit.

 

[OREOGL]

I really like all the mysticism changes which are not actually balancing issues, they were more like bug fixes, however does anyone object to making stone form go back to forced walk? it now being so easy to fit FC4 on a suit.

Eh, off hand in not a fan of it in forced walk.

Being on foot seems like enough of a disadvantage to me given the speed of mounts.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

@Bleak Please strongly consider these suggestions. On atlantic alone I play an Archer, Wrestle Parry Mage, a Mystic Parry Mage, a Deathstriker, a Bushido Tamer Dexxer, and a bushido parry holy fister; and whether my opponents want to admit it or not, I am a top tier player on every single one of those templates. No one enjoys variety more than me. Even when I played WoW for one summer when I was 16, I worked about 6 different characters to level 30 and only one character to like 45. I never even finished a character because I liked playing and learning about the different classes. I am about as impartial as it gets. I don't favor any one class. My only agenda is to balance the game, add variety, and to make the game fun and improve PvP for EVERYONE. I know game mechanics as well as anyone and playing so many different templates I know what will make this game loads of fun for everyone.

Here's what we need to do.

1. Reduce base damage on bows by about 10%. All of these complex reduced damage changes are pointless, because the base damage on bows already scales with a weapon's speed. Just reduce the base damage. What you are currently looking to implement will nerf Archers to uselessness. Trust me. Ask @de LEET ed. He may have main'ed an Archer for the past couple of years, but he's a top tier player that understands mechanics and knows what he's talking about.
2. Reduce moving shot damage by 20%. Decreasing chance to hit means it will still hit overly-hard sometimes, and not at all other times. Let's just reduce the damage overall and reduce the RNG super hits.
3. Reduce parry chance by 5% across the board. (will result in ~15% less parried blows with 120 parrying w/ a shield).
4. Return mortals to the way they used to work, where the duration of each successful mortal hit after the first would be halved, but lower the overall duration time of mortals (from 8 to 6 seconds / 4 to 3 seconds on second mortal, etc), and increase the duration of time that mortal duration will be diminished. With damage nerfs, Archers will still need a way to kill people with parry.
5. Make cleansing winds remove mortal + heal, but heal at a reduced amount (the same way it works against poison).
6. Make Spirit-Speak heal for way more damage. This isn't 2003. The skill needs a MAJOR buff.
7. Increase waki slow duration from 2 to 3 seconds (used to be 4.5) and make it cleansable by apples
8. Eliminate tactics requirement ENTIRELY. This is completely necessary to give tank/archer mages the template versatility they need to be viable. Reducing it by 30 is not enough.
9. Increase SDI cap to 20 (already doing that).
10. Do not implement a delay on supernovas. This is an utterly ridiculous idea that the community even voted against (not including the top tier pvp'ers that are banned from here that all think it's a bad idea). Supernovas are just fine as is, but if you're SUPER INTENT on nerfing them, because you think they're OP for the same reason the LS players who don't even use them do, then take chad's advice and nerf the damage to 10 direct damage, and give it a 10% increase for every 10 alchemy skill, making it do 20 damage at 100 skill.
11. Keep the SDI cap for focus spec at 30. With a lower parry chance, parry focus specs will get disrupted more; and with 20 sdi, mystic burst damage will equal that of a 30 sdi focus mage. 25 sdi will not be enough for focus mages to compete with mystics- everyone will stop playing focus mages (eventually). The issue is not parry focus mage damage, it's how hard they are to hit. Just do the math. If we reduce their parry chance marginally, and reduce archer damage marginally, it will balance the playing field for EVERYONE.

*Updated*

Well.. I don't HATE it. I could get on board with most of it.

I don't like #4 and #5,

#6 (would need a better idea before I got on board with it),

and completely against #7

 

[transcendent]

@Bleak

1. Reduce base damage on bows by about 10%. All of these complex reduced damage changes are pointless, because the base damage on bows already scales with a weapon's speed. Just reduce the base damage.

I agree. It would be so much more simple. I'm not a fan of the really weird damage calculation with the swing speed.

 

[transcendent]

I also agree frenzied whirlwind needs the duration increased to 3 seconds. 1.5 seconds is way too short IMO.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I don't think you're understanding the concept.

Toggle special>SW cannot proc.

No Special Toggled> SW can Proc.

There is no 1 or the other. If you toggle a special, then SW cannot go off. So you use auto attack to proc SW, then when ready hit your special move macro.

Thanks, thought I was clear.

 

[transcendent]

What I don't understand is, if the goal of this update is diversity, then why keep the Tactics requirement? Doesn't make sense to me

 

[Bleak]

TC will be updated shortly with more changes to bring more templates to a more comparable playing field in terms of DPS.

• Updates to Warrior's Gifts.
• PvP Only: Armor Ignore direct damage on ranged weapons has been reduced from 35 to 30. This change along with the ranged damage calculation brings Ranged DPS in line to where it should be.
• I am still reviewing the "Moving Shot damage change to Physical" based on the updated ranged damage calculation.
• The Armor Ignore change is the only update missing from the current notes which will be updated in the morning.

This will be the last update of the year, thank you and happy holidays!

 

[cobb]

I like the 30 damage AI cap on ranged weapons.

 

[cobb]

5% damage increase for Warriors Gifts seems a little low. Any chance of increasing it to 10%?

 

[BeaIank]

5% damage increase for Warriors Gifts seems a little low. Any chance of increasing it to 10%?

10% or 15% would be preferable, yes. 25% would be perfect because then we PvMers could drop an imbuing slot from one of our jewels.
Not sure how it would affect dexxer PvP suits, though. Mostly because the only PvP I do is in a boxing ring, where I required to physically punch the other person involved.

 

[virem]

TC will be updated shortly with more changes to bring more templates to a more comparable playing field in terms of DPS.

• Updates to Warrior's Gifts.
• PvP Only: Armor Ignore direct damage on ranged weapons has been reduced from 35 to 30. This change along with the ranged damage calculation brings Ranged DPS in line to where it should be.
• I am still reviewing the "Moving Shot damage change to Physical" based on the updated ranged damage calculation.
• The Armor Ignore change is the only update missing from the current notes which will be updated in the morning.

This will be the last update of the year, thank you and happy holidays!

parry back on restriction list.. lol

JUST NERF PARRY CHANCE HOOOLY

 

[virem]

or was it last time? I thought he said it was same as live, but

• Added Parry to Focus Spec restriction list

ehhhhhh

 

[OREOGL]

or was it last time? I thought he said it was same as live, but

• Added Parry to Focus Spec restriction list

ehhhhhh

I saw that earlier too, previously he said focus list was the same as live.

 

[cobb]

The changes look pretty decent. I'm still a bit disappointed with needing 60 tactics for specials

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

or was it last time? I thought he said it was same as live, but

• Added Parry to Focus Spec restriction list

ehhhhhh

On the link I click, I do not see that...

 

[cobb]

On the link I click, I do not see that...

It's under misc changes

 

[OREOGL]

So just to do the math for my sake;

Ranged AI cap is now 30 plus procs +7+11 so 48 pts every 1.25s

So even 2 combos with proc could do 96 + 27 on a nova. 123 damage bursts in 3 seconds (2*48)+27

Down from 133 for two hits and a nova.

It's hard not to agree with this looking at DPS despite it nerfing one of my chars.

 

[Legendary Rick]

So just to do the math for my sake;

Ranged AI cap is now 30 plus procs +7+11 so 48 pts every 1.25s

So even 2 combos with proc could do 96 + 27 on a nova. 123 damage bursts in 3 seconds (2*48)+27

Down from 133 for two hits and a nova.

It's hard not to agree with this looking at DPS despite it nerfing one of my chars.

I don't think so. 30 is the new AI cap but the ranged weapon calc is still in play so if your 1.25 sec swing your AI will be more like 25 or less.... basically sounds like its time to retire the archers and get on the holyfist bandwagon.

oh and that warriors gift rework is terrible, 5 dmg inc for a lvl 3? lmao crazy

 

[OREOGL]

I don't think so. 30 is the new AI cap but the ranged weapon calc is still in play so if your 1.25 sec swing your AI will be more like 25 or less.... basically sounds like its time to retire the archers and get on the holyfist bandwagon.

oh and that warriors gift rework is terrible, 5 dmg inc for a lvl 3? lmao crazy

I'm not sure if you tested this but last nights AI for the damage changes was 30-31. (Average)


The Warriors gift wasn't a factor in DPS changes.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I don't think so. 30 is the new AI cap but the ranged weapon calc is still in play so if your 1.25 sec swing your AI will be more like 25 or less.... basically sounds like its time to retire the archers and get on the holyfist bandwagon.

oh and that warriors gift rework is terrible, 5 dmg inc for a lvl 3? lmao crazy

I'd be more interested in what @DJ Diddles and @de LEET ed have to say about it. Seeing as how they are 2 of the best archers in game right now...

 

[OREOGL]

I'd be more interested in what @DJ Diddles and @de LEET ed have to say about it. Seeing as how they are 2 of the best archers in game right now...

This made me chuckle.

Yes ask the archers what they think of their template nerf...

 

[cazador]

Not on a throwing weapon it wasn't. Talking about gargoyles here

Unless they are cursed, but now that doesn't matter with physical changes.

It really does show how little they play or understand UO. 100% RPD suits are making a comeback. I've been advocating fixing moving shot on 75% whatever element on the weapon and 25% Physical. So if 100% Poison moving shots do 75% Poison 25% Physical. If 100% Physical, it just does 100% Physical. "PvP Only" apparently I have to say pvp only because some trammy out there is doing moving shots for damage..


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[Turles (UHOH)]

still waitin on a wres parry balance. lol

 

[OREOGL]

still waitin on a wres parry balance. lol

Any reason or suggestions to do so?

 

[Turles (UHOH)]

when the two skills are stacked it should be some type of diminishing returns not the def plus def adding them together isn't nearly balanced. maybe a 20 to 30 percent reduction when added together would seem fair.

 

[Turles (UHOH)]

the reason to do so would be when you have 3 or 4 warriors on one mage and still cant even hit him let alone kill them.

 

[cobb]

Parry was put back on the Focus spec restriction list, so I don't know if that is necessary

 

[OREOGL]

when the two skills are stacked it should be some type of diminishing returns not the def plus def adding them together isn't nearly balanced. maybe a 20 to 30 percent reduction when added together would seem fair.

Ok why?

I provided the damage burst and damage intake burst for this template.

106 out vs 186 in (fixed 189 typo)

I disagree based on this.

Feel free to argue the math on this.

 

[OREOGL]

the reason to do so would be when you have 3 or 4 warriors on one mage and still cant even hit him let alone kill them.

If you have 3 or 4 warriors with that damage potential not killing one mage, I dont think the issue is with the template...

 

[Turles (UHOH)]

im not talking about a given template im talking about wres parry as a whole against melee classes which deal damage by hitting people. which u cant do due to the insanely low chance of hitting them.

 

[OREOGL]

im not talking about a given template im talking about wres parry as a whole against melee classes which deal damage by hitting people. which u cant do due to the insanely low chance of ****ting them.

but you are talking about a given template, wrestle parry...

the blocking chance is 67.5 for that template. not including rng and hit lower defense.

 

[quovadis]

i cant believe it parry back on restriction list.this change nothing ,only nerf parry mage but we still ave parry mystic and parry chiv.i know parry need a fix but not only on one temp

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

when the two skills are stacked it should be some type of diminishing returns not the def plus def adding them together isn't nearly balanced. maybe a 20 to 30 percent reduction when added together would seem fair.

This would only give a wrestle parry an additional 5% block chance. I think the decreased SDI is adequate enough.

 

[OREOGL]

i cant believe it parry back on restriction list.this change nothing ,only nerf parry mage but we still ave parry mystic and parry chiv.i know parry need a fix but not only on one temp

I'm not sure it's accurate quovadis, last time he mentioned the focus list he said it would be the same as live.

Maybe possible they just forgot to cross it off?