Trees...

[Guest]

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Just hitting reply...

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Fruit Buyer purchases simoleans from EA at cost of X dollars. They give those simoleans to Fruit Seller in exchange for a ripe. Fruit Seller then sells those simoleans to EA for less than X dollars. EA keeps the difference.

How exactly is that bad business for EA???



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I think it is great business for EA and will eliminate botters. How about EA buying a tree from me if I elect to sell one to them for the "market price" (like lobster) and then selling it to a player that wants one for a few bucks more?

Waves at Jackiee

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Because then you have power player who comes in and buys a ton of trees directly from EA, players have hissy fits again and we are where we are now, whining and destroying yet further the great game we once knew.

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You just made the devs point. Thank you. If the trees are changed now, that future argument won't happen if EA does decide to sell the trees. So, problem solved.

 

[Meggers]

Laws also include building codes for houses and such. If you cut corners, you risk the house coming down on itself. Laws were not made just for illegal actions, some were made to keep you safe.
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There is no "law" against buying or selling fruit. Why don't you just get off it and leave people alone? No one is being hurt by fruit farmers or those who buy it. You said yourself you don't skill, fine. Some of us love to craft therefore we need a lot of skill and some of those folks will eat fruit to get there. It doesn't hurt you or interfere with your game play so leave them alone.

 

[Guest]

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I would also like to add...
As much as we would all like to giggle and believe that we are far superior in intelligence to those who work at EA, they get paid to analyze this stuff. They get paid to make sure that this game is going to have some success to it so that they can continue to draw a paycheck and so on. So when an EA employee says "there is a problem with this" I don't think they are doing it just to piss players off... I think it has to do with... IDK there being a problem with trees?

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A) Please show me where anyone in this thread "giggled" or stated they "believe that we are far superior in intelligence to those who work at EA".

B) Fine, I'll bite on your troll/derail and then drop it.... You do realize you are talking about EA dev's and TSO right? You know, one of the biggest flops in the history of online gaming? I wouldn't exactly be putting the dev's of such an albatross up on a pedestal as being all knowing and infallible even if the current crop wasn't part of the original development and disastrous release.

They haven’t proven themselves to be one bit better than the first crop of dev's in my eyes - yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The devs that are with the game are not the ones that were with the game then. This is a new team. Yet everyone continues to treat them as the old one. I agree with jackiee about then seeing a problem with the trees.

 

[Guest]

Your right. No one is being hurt by the tree farmers. But the game is being hurt by the tree farmers. If a dev brought this up as an issue, I'm sure they have a really good reason. I happen to understand their reason and totally agree with it.

 

[Meggers]

I have done this on several occasions to many different tree farms. What this comes down to is, trees were never meant to be used in this fashion. If they were, you would be able to mark the fruit itself for sale. That is plain as day.
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Have you ever seen how a bouncy ball is used in a romance house? I'm pretty sure they never intended for it to be used THAT way. It doesn't hurt anyone and some folks love it. You seem to have a problem with people finding a fun and yes sometimes lucrative way to play. And how do you know thw store owners are afk 23 hours a day? You told me in a post once that maybe they just don't want to talk to me, well right back at ya son.

 

[Guest]

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Just hitting reply...

<blockquote><hr>

Fruit Buyer purchases simoleans from EA at cost of X dollars. They give those simoleans to Fruit Seller in exchange for a ripe. Fruit Seller then sells those simoleans to EA for less than X dollars. EA keeps the difference.

How exactly is that bad business for EA???



[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is great business for EA and will eliminate botters. How about EA buying a tree from me if I elect to sell one to them for the "market price" (like lobster) and then selling it to a player that wants one for a few bucks more?

Waves at Jackiee

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"Market Price"

I like that. So do the Varrock Guards treat you well?

 

[Roger Wilco]

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......

B) It isn't about putting anybody on a pedestal, it is more of logically figuring out that some people had to push to get EA to take an interest in this game and in doing so the pressure will be on more than ever to make something profitable out of it. EA employees have it in their best interest to make this game work properly.

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I agree, but I would point out it was in the best interest of the original dev's also.

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I'll take it a step further. If the game fails... nobody will die. It's all good.

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Yep, agreed, the world isn't going to end if it does.

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I am going to have to stay on topic now, I would hate to push the mods patience with going off beat. Maybe somebody should start yet another thread on simolean selling.

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LOL yes, we don't have enough of those threads. At least it's going to be difficult for players to complain about simolean selling with EA getting in on it soon.

 

[Guest]

I've said it once and I will say it again. It has nothing to do with game play. Game play is not the issue. Trees are the issue at hand. Trees have caused a huge imbalance in the game. Everyone that comes into this game learns, you have to have a tree and lots of them. That is a problem.

 

[Guest]

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Your right. No one is being hurt by the tree farmers. But the game is being hurt by the tree farmers. If a dev brought this up as an issue, I'm sure they have a really good reason. I happen to understand their reason and totally agree with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

the devs didn't bring it up, a few whiney "loud mouth" players as you said previosly did and thats what the devs are reacting to, the few but very loud mouthed people.

 

[Guest]

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I've said it once and I will say it again. It has nothing to do with game play. Game play is not the issue. Trees are the issue at hand. Trees have caused a huge imbalance in the game. Everyone that comes into this game learns, you have to have a tree and lots of them. That is a problem.

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I think what most people struggle with is in defining that "huge imbalance." They are by far the hottest item in the game. At one point in time, people were paying over a billion simoleans for a tree and tens of millions of simoleans for a ripe. But wait a minute....trees and fruit were around much longer than those prices were. It wasn't the object causing the imbalance, it was the exploited simoleans. If it hadn't been trees everyone was buying, it would have been something else like robopets or other "rares".

I think in order for us to offer good suggestions to rebalance the tree, we need to understand the imbalance first.

 

[Guest]

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Your right. No one is being hurt by the tree farmers. But the game is being hurt by the tree farmers. If a dev brought this up as an issue, I'm sure they have a really good reason. I happen to understand their reason and totally agree with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

the devs didn't bring it up, a few whiney "loud mouth" players as you said previosly did and thats what the devs are reacting to, the few but very loud mouthed people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me loud mouthed all you want, but please don't misinterpret the original post, which was this:

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I hear that Parizad and Lee talked of making mystic trees only give fruit on skill lots last night at the pub.

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I don't see anywhere that any player saying anything had to do with it. Also, look at some of error 23's posts. She heard the same stuff that I heard from Lee. So its not players complaining, it was a dev issue that was brought up by, according to the quote of original poster, devs.

 

[Keep It Real]

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I've said it once and I will say it again. It has nothing to do with game play. Game play is not the issue. Trees are the issue at hand. Trees have caused a huge imbalance in the game. Everyone that comes into this game learns, you have to have a tree and lots of them. That is a problem.

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Please explain this imbalance you speak of time after time after time, give some clear precise feedback. You may just have a point rather than

time after time after time.

 

[Meggers]

I've said it once and I will say it again. It has nothing to do with game play. Game play is not the issue. Trees are the issue at hand. Trees have caused a huge imbalance in the game. Everyone that comes into this game learns, you have to have a tree and lots of them. That is a problem.
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Trees have not hurt the game at all. They don't wreck the economy and sthey erve a useful purpose. The devs can find all kinds of problems when people are actually enjoying the game but they need to focis on REAL problems within the game like lag, disappearing objects, the graphics in TC3 are all screwed up and so many other things. I am hoping they give us a servo for next anniversary gift. I will rent mine out and give you something new to pancake about.

 

[Guest]

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I've said it once and I will say it again. It has nothing to do with game play. Game play is not the issue. Trees are the issue at hand. Trees have caused a huge imbalance in the game. Everyone that comes into this game learns, you have to have a tree and lots of them. That is a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]


Please explain this imbalance you speak of time after time after time, give some clear precise feedback. You may just have a point rather than

time after time after time.

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I have if you have read the posts, but let me quote them here for you:

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NOIP

Trees are the most powerful and unbalanced objects in the game. When Maxis gave out trees, the really good players saw that the game had changed and a different game had emerged, which was now “GET A TREE” at any cost and get as many as possible. That is why there are tree farms. The tree farmers are the true power players in the game.

If Maxis had released trees that gave out a zillion simoleans instead of 10 simoleans they would call that a bug. A bug that would get fixed. The trees are so powerful they are a bug and need to be fixed, in spite of the fact that they are gifts.

A gift is not excluded from tuning based upon changing game parameters. The trees are powerful and I am sure EA will find a way to fix them that balance them out and still let everyone stop feeling sick over this digital object.

I am sure they are trying to find a way to balance them in a fair manner - which is why they are still in the game unchanged.


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Then Lee responded with this:

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Ronin Dex,

Well put and as some posters have pointed out my feelings as well. I have seen many people borrow my thoughts in posts nothing wrong with that since I assume they share a similar point of view. A few comments on trees.

They are an unbalanciing force in the game, the object was not well thought out, and we would like to find a way to tune it. I am oft amused at the angst over the discussions of potential future thoughts and directions about things. We discused the limitation of trees to skill lots as a possible idea and one that was actually suggested by community members. It has not been done yet. May never be done. Bit one thing is cleare something will need to be done.

It being an aniversary gift does not exclude it from being tuned. But again I would ask you to consider that we discuss ideas with you. Possibilities on direction. Helpful feed back is feed back that provides ways to balance the game, there are a few examples in this thread. Unhelpful feed back is found in this thread also.

Forest Gump Voice, "And thats all I have to say about this."

Cheers and remember these are thougths and ideas we discuss. "The Future is Open wide mmmhhhmmm"

Cheers,

Lee

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Is that reason enough for you?

 

[Keep It Real]

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I've said it once and I will say it again. It has nothing to do with game play. Game play is not the issue. Trees are the issue at hand. Trees have caused a huge imbalance in the game. Everyone that comes into this game learns, you have to have a tree and lots of them. That is a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]


Please explain this imbalance you speak of time after time after time, give some clear precise feedback. You may just have a point rather than

time after time after time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have if you have read the posts, but let me quote them here for you:

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NOIP

Trees are the most powerful and unbalanced objects in the game. When Maxis gave out trees, the really good players saw that the game had changed and a different game had emerged, which was now “GET A TREE” at any cost and get as many as possible. That is why there are tree farms. The tree farmers are the true power players in the game.

If Maxis had released trees that gave out a zillion simoleans instead of 10 simoleans they would call that a bug. A bug that would get fixed. The trees are so powerful they are a bug and need to be fixed, in spite of the fact that they are gifts.

A gift is not excluded from tuning based upon changing game parameters. The trees are powerful and I am sure EA will find a way to fix them that balance them out and still let everyone stop feeling sick over this digital object.

I am sure they are trying to find a way to balance them in a fair manner - which is why they are still in the game unchanged.


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Then Lee responded with this:

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Ronin Dex,

Well put and as some posters have pointed out my feelings as well. I have seen many people borrow my thoughts in posts nothing wrong with that since I assume they share a similar point of view. A few comments on trees.

They are an unbalanciing force in the game, the object was not well thought out, and we would like to find a way to tune it. I am oft amused at the angst over the discussions of potential future thoughts and directions about things. We discused the limitation of trees to skill lots as a possible idea and one that was actually suggested by community members. It has not been done yet. May never be done. Bit one thing is cleare something will need to be done.

It being an aniversary gift does not exclude it from being tuned. But again I would ask you to consider that we discuss ideas with you. Possibilities on direction. Helpful feed back is feed back that provides ways to balance the game, there are a few examples in this thread. Unhelpful feed back is found in this thread also.

Forest Gump Voice, "And thats all I have to say about this."

Cheers and remember these are thougths and ideas we discuss. "The Future is Open wide mmmhhhmmm"

Cheers,

Lee

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Is that reason enough for you?

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NOPE...just sounds like a lot of

to me.

 

[Guest]

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Your right. No one is being hurt by the tree farmers. But the game is being hurt by the tree farmers. If a dev brought this up as an issue, I'm sure they have a really good reason. I happen to understand their reason and totally agree with it.

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the devs didn't bring it up, a few whiney "loud mouth" players as you said previosly did and thats what the devs are reacting to, the few but very loud mouthed people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me loud mouthed all you want, but please don't misinterpret the original post, which was this:

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I hear that Parizad and Lee talked of making mystic trees only give fruit on skill lots last night at the pub.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see anywhere that any player saying anything had to do with it. Also, look at some of error 23's posts. She heard the same stuff that I heard from Lee. So its not players complaining, it was a dev issue that was brought up by, according to the quote of original poster, devs.

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Ronin i didnt call u loud mouthed. my post was about previoys post of yours i'm pretty sue and it mentioned about "loud mouthed" posters. and yes that is exactly why the devs are looki g at trees now, if it werent for the loud posts they'd not even think about trees.

 

[Guest]

This is why I continue to post my opinion over and over. Maybe one day you will read one of my posts.

 

[Guest]

Funny thing is aren't they talking about regifting everyone again after these city merges? Well call me stupid, but damn are devs are geniouses here. Isn't that going to add so much more fuel to the fire by instantly adding thousands of more new trees to the game?

 

[Keep It Real]

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This is why I continue to post my opinion over and over. Maybe one day you will read one of my posts.

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All of that is just a way for the Dev's to avoid fixing the cause. Skilling is broke, trees are one cure that some players use to avoid the boredom of skilling. I do not want to keep explaining CAUSE and EFFECT over and over to you. Please look it up. k thx

 

[Guest]

Not if the trees are tuned to skill lots.

 

[Guest]

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LOL yes, we don't have enough of those threads. At least it's going to be difficult for players to complain about simolean selling with EA getting in on it soon.

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Haha I bet you 100 simoleans they totally will still find a way &gt;

 

[Guest]

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This is why I continue to post my opinion over and over. Maybe one day you will read one of my posts.

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All of that is just a way for the Dev's to avoid fixing the cause. Skilling is broke, trees are one cure that some players use to avoid the boredom of skilling. I do not want keep explaining CAUSE and EFFECT over and over to you. Please look it up. k thx

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Funny, I was under the impression that the devs said skilling was going to be changed. Yet everyone in this thread is throwing a hissy fit. Let me explain cause and effect for you. You can't change one side with the other changing as well. So you change skilling but leave trees the same, same thing will continue to happen. You have to change both. Here is the thing, the Cause is skilling AND trees. The effect is boredom.

 

[Guest]

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The devs that are with the game are not the ones that were with the game then. This is a new team. Yet everyone continues to treat them as the old one. I agree with jackiee about then seeing a problem with the trees.

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Several on this team were on the original team, I'm sure you are aware of this. In my opinion, they did it all wrong back then, and they are still doing it all wrong. Nothing I've seen so far in TC3 has made me think otherwise. It's really hard to get into a "new game" when most of what's been done so far is take away from the old one.


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Your right. No one is being hurt by the tree farmers. But the game is being hurt by the tree farmers. If a dev brought this up as an issue, I'm sure they have a really good reason. I happen to understand their reason and totally agree with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not understand their reasoning. Perhaps <u>they</u> should actually take the time to explain this "reason" <u>they</u> have. I'd much rather see it from the developers (plural, meaning more than one). The reasoning I've seen from you is completely illogical to me. Maybe it's in the way you word things. I do not see how the game is being hurt by the farmers. I do not see how eating a fruit from the tree I was given when my account turned two years old, harms the game. I do not see why my giving a fruit to one of my other sims, or to a friend, would harm the game. I do not see how keeping my skills up with the fruit I have, and teaching others, harms the game. I do not see how someone who will opt to buy simoleans from EA in EA Land to purchase fruit, will harm the game.

I do see, that if they put the screws to the trees, the best thing that has been added to this game since it first came out, they will lose more accounts, and that will harm the game.

They've been given plenty of feedback on this issue. I do hope they realize that it's the skilling process that needs to be tweaked, not the trees.

 

[Keep It Real]

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This is why I continue to post my opinion over and over. Maybe one day you will read one of my posts.

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All of that is just a way for the Dev's to avoid fixing the cause. Skilling is broke, trees are one cure that some players use to avoid the boredom of skilling. I do not want keep explaining CAUSE and EFFECT over and over to you. Please look it up. k thx

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I was under the impression that the devs said skilling was going to be changed. Yet everyone in this thread is throwing a hissy fit. Let me explain cause and effect for you. You can't change one side with the other changing as well. So you change skilling but leave trees the same, same thing will continue to happen. You have to change both. Here is the thing, the Cause is skilling AND trees. The effect is boredom.

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That's really funny, because changing the cause should be priority and then seeing if the effect is still there or if something else needs done. Cart before the horse again I see.

 

[Roger Wilco]

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They've been given plenty of feedback on this issue. I do hope they realize that it's the skilling process that needs to be tweaked, not the trees.

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Seeing as how skilling was intentionally designed to be as boring as possible in order to stimulate conversation, I kinda doubt it.

 

[Guest]

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The devs that are with the game are not the ones that were with the game then. This is a new team. Yet everyone continues to treat them as the old one. I agree with jackiee about then seeing a problem with the trees.

[/ QUOTE ]

Several on this team were on the original team, I'm sure you are aware of this. In my opinion, they did it all wrong back then, and they are still doing it all wrong. Nothing I've seen so far in TC3 has made me think otherwise. It's really hard to get into a "new game" when most of what's been done so far is take away from the old one.


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Your right. No one is being hurt by the tree farmers. But the game is being hurt by the tree farmers. If a dev brought this up as an issue, I'm sure they have a really good reason. I happen to understand their reason and totally agree with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not understand their reasoning. Perhaps <u>they</u> should actually take the time to explain this "reason" <u>they</u> have. I'd much rather see it from the developers (plural, meaning more than one). The reasoning I've seen from you is completely illogical to me. Maybe it's in the way you word things. I do not see how the game is being hurt by the farmers. I do not see how eating a fruit from the tree I was given when my account turned two years old, harms the game. I do not see why my giving a fruit to one of my other sims, or to a friend, would harm the game. I do not see how keeping my skills up with the fruit I have, and teaching others, harms the game. I do not see how someone who will opt to buy simoleans from EA in EA Land to purchase fruit, will harm the game.

I do see, that if they put the screws to the trees, the best thing that has been added to this game since it first came out, they will lose more accounts, and that will harm the game.

They've been given plenty of feedback on this issue. I do hope they realize that it's the skilling process that needs to be tweaked, not the trees.

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1) When the trees came out the "team" was very limited. I am interested in knowing how you have the information as to who was on the "team" at the time of the tree. Who were the several?

2) We are... I don't want to say lucky b/c it seems like a silly phrase, but... in a better position. See now EA does not hide things from us like subscription numbers, players online, or reasoning as to why something is or is not being done. So if they come and say that the design of an object is flawed, then its flawed. There is nothing personal here. These people are just doing their jobs.

3) I too would like to see skilling tweaked. Maybe somebody will start a thread on how to change skilling. Maybe link some of those wiki's mentioned.

4) Maybe with the accounts lost, there will be some gained. It's hard to start playing a game that is run amok with cheaters and exploiters.
New players is what we need... not the same old players who think they are entitled to everything on gods green earth b/c they stuck with a game.

 

[Guest]

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Several on this team were on the original team

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If you reread that, you will see I made no mention of who was working at the time the tree was created. As I've said before, I doubt greatly it was anyone on the team we have now. That person was creative and thought up something the players in the game would actually love.

For them to take it away now, well, as others have said, it's just hammering more nails in the coffin.

 

[Guest]

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Several on this team were on the original team

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If you reread that, you will see I made no mention of who was working at the time the tree was created. As I've said before, I doubt greatly it was anyone on the team we have now. That person was creative and thought up something the players in the game would actually love.

For them to take it away now, well, as others have said, it's just hammering more nails in the coffin.

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Oh ok I was under the impression that the thread was about the design of the flawed tree and when I skim read that I thought it meant at the time of the tree. My bad. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Guest]

How much more black and white can I get?

There is a problem with the trees, the devs are right.

/end

 

[Guest]

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I have done this on several occasions to many different tree farms. What this comes down to is, trees were never meant to be used in this fashion. If they were, you would be able to mark the fruit itself for sale. That is plain as day.

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Every single online game I have ever played has objects in them which the players utilize in a manner that their dev's never envisioned, so what's your point? BTW, I would be fine with being able to mark fruit for sale also - not that it will happen.


I'm starting to suspect that you have some sort of fantasy that all the players should be playing the game in exactly the same way you do, that nobody should be smarter or more productive (and God forbid get rich off other players by being creative, ewwww) and that you just generally oppose sims profiting off buying, selling, and trading with each other.

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Roger, I'm not sure that is what Ronin is saying he wants. I think he is just stating that going forward we need to be mindful of the very things that brought this game down in the first place. Everyone wants to scream about bots and exploits and scams and the like... and just like all of those things trees are a valid concern to actual players (even ones who own trees)
If the dev team seems to think this is an issue, I think its an issue. Its not really a matter of what we have as our individual opinions, but what they show as being a problem in a game that they are investing real life (not simolean) dollars in trying to better.

I guarantee that they will not be willing to duplicate mistakes.

So instead of us in this thread taking everything as a personal attack and replying with such, I think actual valid solutions should be offered from both sides of the debate, so that EA can look at these, see how passionate some of these players are about eating their fruit and make it so they can eat it.

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Very well said Jackie

 

[imported_TheCookieFamily]

It may not be right, but neither is letting people in China starve. Some things just don't always work out as planned. I'll take a whole new concept of game rather than a silly tree working at my house any day.

 

[Guest]

NOIP

So I have an example that I would like to share with all of you about how the devs know more about the game than any of us who play.

Say you go to a restaurant and eat ten 5-star meals. Does that make you a master chef??

The answer is No. Just because you play the game doesn't mean that you are a master programmer of the game. Hence, my reasoning behind this whole tree issue.

The devs are the master programmers behind the game. If they say the trees are too powerful and flawed, I'm going to say they know what they are talking about. Why you ask? Because I'm not a master programmer. In fact, I'm not one of the master programmers of the game. So yeah, if they say the trees are flawed, I'm going to listen to what they have to say about it.

My opinion was swayed by Polly. I think trees should be limited to only the sims on the account that the trees are on. This would give people the option once we get to EALand to have sims on their accounts that could do all the crafting for their other sims store. This way it benefits the account as a whole. By benefiting the account as a whole, it will allow people to do jobs easier(i hate greening). All in all, I think this is a really good idea

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

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NOIP

So I have an example that I would like to share with all of you about how the devs know more about the game than any of us who play.

Say you go to a restaurant and eat ten 5-star meals. Does that make you a master chef??



[/ QUOTE ]

If you eat those meals over the course of five years, or at different restaurants, it would certainly qualify you as a pretty good judge of the chefs' abilities. As an educated consumer, you might even be of the opinion 5 stars are waaay too many.

 

[Meggers]

TTL:

I left the puter to go read a while and just came back. This thread had 19 pages when I left, what happened?

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

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My opinion was swayed by Polly. I think trees should be limited to only the sims on the account that the trees are on. This would give people the option once we get to EALand to have sims on their accounts that could do all the crafting for their other sims store. This way it benefits the account as a whole. By benefiting the account as a whole, it will allow people to do jobs easier(i hate greening). All in all, I think this is a really good idea

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I, too, would be OK with the idea that the FRUIT be limited to the account owner. I have several trees, myself, and (sorry, here comes the damn "5-year-card") over the course of my ownership I've mostly used the fruit to green. I have never sold any fruit, although I've given some away. I'll be sorry to see "fruit generosity" go away, it was fun to let people have fruit as a treat or prize.

For me, and I don't think I'm alone in this, I and visitors use the tree most often for viewing. Sorry to see that function be taken away. There are many interactions we can use instead, but our trees have been handy.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

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TTL:

I left the puter to go read a while and just came back. This thread had 19 pages when I left, what happened?

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I don't know for certain, but I think the mods got out their tree pruning shears.

 

[Guest]

*snip snip*

 

[Guest]

I have been a paying TSOer for over 5 years. It absolutely is unfair to mess with an Anniversary gift. All of us do not want to live on skill lots for our trees to work. Not fair. What do we pay for anymore? You have to wonder what the developers are thinking on this one. Appauling and really shocking!!