so did biden or obama say he's raising taxes on people making 150,000, 200,00k a year? let's be clear on what you where insinuating.
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Smoking the victory (Obama) cigar...
- Thread starter Ole Cheapy
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- Watchers 3
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T
Turtle
Guest
You do realize these candidates are doing tens of thousands of interviews all across the country for months on end right?
I would chalk Biden saying those figures incorrectly as just that, a mistake.
a) he's not the President nor are they his plans
b) I'll go by Obama's website and his financial advisors, not by one comment by the VP
I would chalk Biden saying those figures incorrectly as just that, a mistake.
a) he's not the President nor are they his plans
b) I'll go by Obama's website and his financial advisors, not by one comment by the VP
I guess you didn't read.
Obama said the benefits would only go to those who made less than 250,000. Then he said 200,000.
Then Biden said 150,000.
What are you confused about? I said that in my first post. You wanted proof, I gave it to you.
Biden does slip up a lot but look at votex statement closely
"The figures are falling faster than the stock market! Get ready middle class!"
what is he insinuating? Those that have read obama's tax plan know what he is insinuating is false but I'll let him figure it out.
"The figures are falling faster than the stock market! Get ready middle class!"
what is he insinuating? Those that have read obama's tax plan know what he is insinuating is false but I'll let him figure it out.
Possibly, but Obama made the same mistake on his own. He dropped from $250,000 to $200,000. Imagine what will happen by the time its gets thru the mud of Congress...
I guess you need to explain what I'm insinuating, because I'm not sure what you are thinking. I'm saying the promised benefits are dropping like the stock market. Are you reading something else?
ok your first post did not say "benefits" it insinuated something else.
If you want to go to Baracks website and read what he's proposing it will be clear to you what he is trying to do. I could paste the link again if you like.
If you want to go to Baracks website and read what he's proposing it will be clear to you what he is trying to do. I could paste the link again if you like.
I already read it. Unlike you, I read the links you posted. If you had read the ones I posted you would have seen that what I was talking about was who benefits and the discrepencies therein.
Notice that the examples on Obama's website do not include any examples of people in the 150,000 - 250,000 range...
Personally, I fall into his second example of married making 90,000...So I should get a 1,000 dollar tax cut - so I pretty much benefit from this.....my concern is the inconsistencies in the 150,000 - 250,000 range.
P.S. Might help you in the future to know. I am a very black and white person. I don't insinuate anything, I speak what I mean.
Don't get me wrong on this...
I voted for McCain but I am more than willing to give Obama a try. He has the backing of Congress and no excuses not to make changes. I would love nothing more than to see him suceed in some of his plans. I just worry about inconsistencies and half-truths. Congress has a way of making even the best laid plans go haywire...
I voted for McCain but I am more than willing to give Obama a try. He has the backing of Congress and no excuses not to make changes. I would love nothing more than to see him suceed in some of his plans. I just worry about inconsistencies and half-truths. Congress has a way of making even the best laid plans go haywire...
O
Ole Cheapy
Guest
Please be advised that no bill or law has ever been passed by word of mouth, it takes ink and paper. that's what i would be more concerned about if i were you, not some slip of the tongue or human error. The man speaks all day everyday, so where is it written that he is not entitled to speak a mistaken word or number during a speech. Why put so much emphasis on a human error?
T
Turtle
Guest
Someone listens to too much Fox News.
I did read the article and i respect you reading obamas website if you look towards the top there's a a graphic that says "whats your obama tax cut, find out now" click on it and enter 150,000 to 200,000
the problem i had with your intial post is your reply to the poster before it insinuating Obama wants to TAX people making just under 250,000, 200,000, 150,000. It did not come across as Obama isn't giving a tax break to people making under 250,000.
here's a definition of middle class
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
50,000 a year basically. the middle class is getting a tax break. I only make 72k a year I'm getting a tax break, you are getting a tax break, 95% (probably 100% unless I'm told otherwise) of the people posting in this thread are getting a tax break.
the problem i had with your intial post is your reply to the poster before it insinuating Obama wants to TAX people making just under 250,000, 200,000, 150,000. It did not come across as Obama isn't giving a tax break to people making under 250,000.
here's a definition of middle class
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
50,000 a year basically. the middle class is getting a tax break. I only make 72k a year I'm getting a tax break, you are getting a tax break, 95% (probably 100% unless I'm told otherwise) of the people posting in this thread are getting a tax break.
Well said sir.
M
Mogluk
Guest
yeah but we are all going to get tax INCREASES when the bush tax cuts are rescinded....yeah we get the marriage penalty again....
"THE ECONOMY, TAXES AND DEFICITS
The promise: Retain President Bush's tax cuts for families making less than $250,000 a year and provide more relief to the squeezed middle class by creating new tax breaks for lower-income families; protect middle-class taxpayers from the Alternative Minimum Tax; exempt seniors making less than $50,000 a year from paying income taxes, expand the tax credit for college and provide incentives to encourage savings, and help pay for child care and mortgage expenses."
yes your correct for those making more then 250,000 a year
The promise: Retain President Bush's tax cuts for families making less than $250,000 a year and provide more relief to the squeezed middle class by creating new tax breaks for lower-income families; protect middle-class taxpayers from the Alternative Minimum Tax; exempt seniors making less than $50,000 a year from paying income taxes, expand the tax credit for college and provide incentives to encourage savings, and help pay for child care and mortgage expenses."
yes your correct for those making more then 250,000 a year
Ah, missed that graphic, I'm at work and lot of graphics are blocked.
I see your point on my post, but that was not my intention..I wasn't actually replying to his post (thus I didn't quote it), but I was feeding off it in a way I guess.
Yeah, I hear ya on middle class. But when it comes down to actual funding and as it goes thru the Congress you will likely see the numbers change - thus my comment about it approaching middle class..
Ever used the wayback machine? Look up some of the old websites where the Presidents had nice plans and how they actually looked when they came thru Congress. It's scary.
Like I said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Like it or not, he is gonna be President. I hope he does well, but I will never be a supporter of distribution of wealth. If I want more money, I work more. If I want to help out the less fortunate, I do it myself or at church.
"If I want more money, I work more. If I want to help out the less fortunate, I do it myself or at church."
I respect you for that.
While going through art school my mom offered to pay for it, I refused because it was something that I felt was my responsibility. I paid off my 40k loan in 4 years and feel better for it then if someone else paid for it. So I agree with your attitude.
I respect you for that.
While going through art school my mom offered to pay for it, I refused because it was something that I felt was my responsibility. I paid off my 40k loan in 4 years and feel better for it then if someone else paid for it. So I agree with your attitude.
I was pretty sure this whole thread was going to be about Cheapy expressing his desire to be a whitehouse intern.
Respect right back at you! 40k is 4 years is an incredible accomplishment to pay back! To me you can't beat the feeling of taking responsibility on yourself and achieving a goal...kudos!
R
RedDaTeef
Guest
It's no use argueing with Neocons. They have there head shuved so far up Bush's ass they think his **** taste like chocolate! (this post is aimed at Goron)
I assume then your church pays for the health-care of non-parishioners who cannot afford it?
When I was working in bicycle shops while deciding exactly what I wanted to do with my life, I had no health-care provided to me by my employer. I purchased a 'major medical' plan that basically had like a $10,000.00 deductible for doctor's visit's, meds, etc and then like 70/30 after that 10k. But it was reduced to $500 and 100 if I lost a leg, got in a car crash/etc, basically anything accidental. Which was fine, I was reasonably healthy.
Now, let's fast forward to present day, I have a beautiful daughter, but she was born with strabismus [mis-alignment of the eyes] as well as needed ear-tubes for a chronic middle-ear fluid problem. I am so thankful my wife and I have wonderful health insurance and have paid very little out of pocket for the surgeries my daughter required. [She would have no depth perception and be unable to hear if she hadn't had them.]
If my wife and I decided to have a child earlier in life, there is no way we could have paid for the surgeries she required. Her basic health care we could have afforded, but the expenses involved in her diagnosis and surgeries, there is no way.
You really want to deny people this? And yea, of course there's going to be issues and people will abuse the system, there's plenty of democratic plans AND republican plans that have the same issues; but do you really want to ruin a child's life because you'll help people through your church? I don't think your church can afford it all. And how does your church decide WHO gets their help? This is what universal health care is really all about, everyone having access to the same basic level of care, regardless of financial status.
And granted, a very extreme example, but there's lots of them out there. Unexpected issues with children/etc are a HUGE burden on those who don't have access to good insurance, I'm so thankful I am fortunate enough to have it.
And I'm not talking about people who perhaps can't afford the additional cost associated children, but have them anyways. I'm talking about who people who lose jobs and end up without insurance when they had it before, unexpected health issues that aren't covered by some of the lower-end insurances/etc.
People hear 'socialized healthcare' and assume it's a bunch of people leeching from the government. And there will be some of that, for sure, but I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives when it comes to assisting those people that really need the help. [Especially children.] And I think it will be a challenge to implement properly, but I don't believe that means we shouldn't try.
"People hear 'socialized healthcare' and assume it's a bunch of people leeching from the government."
My step dad is the head Radiologist at his hospital in Canada. I asked him a couple weeks ago what the downfall of their system is and he replied "there is longer wait times for NON emergency related procedures". Some procedures can take up to 3 months. This is not what you want to hear but if it's not an emergency it should be acceptable IMO.
also everyone should live by what vortex posted
"If I want more money, I work more."
My step dad is the head Radiologist at his hospital in Canada. I asked him a couple weeks ago what the downfall of their system is and he replied "there is longer wait times for NON emergency related procedures". Some procedures can take up to 3 months. This is not what you want to hear but if it's not an emergency it should be acceptable IMO.
also everyone should live by what vortex posted
"If I want more money, I work more."
D
Death of Hemp
Guest
"Smoking the victory (Obama) cigar..."Ahhh the sweet music of victory....how sweet it is!
I sure hope you're not applying for a position as a White House intern!
G
Goron
Guest
interesting...
And what makes you say I voted for Bush, or ever supported him?
Please, explain.
Why is it that when I criticize Obama's policies, I get ten people jumping on me- but when Red directly attacks me for my opinions none of those people raise an eyebrow?
Tell me red, where did I attack you, or your opinions?
hey Hera- wheres your talk of respect now?
Goron I did apologize and will do it again. I just hate misinformation (from the other posters) and lashed out at you.
sorry
sorry
I'm willing to bet Red wasn't at the Democratic gathering last night, but I could be wrong.
And I never said all democrats are respectful. I just said it was sad that the people last night felt the need to boo.
And if you feel I've personally been disrespectful, please let me know.
G
Goron
Guest
No harm taken. I saw it the first time- sorry I didn't respond.
Spoken like a true conservative. Sadly, the socialist Democrats do not believe this. If you truly believe what you said above, I think you will be sorely disappointed in a few years. However, based on your earlier comments, I know you don't believe that at all.
I hope I am wrong but I am getting ready for a bumpy ride. If things get too tough, I'm just going to throw in the towel and let Big Brother take care of me. I'm tired of being the provider for every Tom, **** and Harry with their hand out.
The USSA and "President Obama" brought to you by the following people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg
and don't forget:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg
"If I help him, he's gonna help me." What a joke.
G
Goron
Guest
lol, you don't need to worry about a thing.
I'll hint back at my post responding to red but change it a little bit:
All I've done so far is indicated that my economic situation would benefit from a McCain presidency and that one of my hobbies would likely benefit from a McCain presidency. And I went into detail on how Obama's policies hurt those factors.
If those two factors ruled my life, my family's lives, and my friends lives alone- then I could immediately say I am a McCain supporter and voter.
But they don't. There is a heck of a lot more to politics than just taxes and gun control- a heck of a lot more... As such, I will gladly criticize Obama's policies that I have issues with just as I will criticize McCain's- but it is evident that there is a more vocal liberal faction here on siege stratics (and in my opinion the interweb in general) so it would be of little fun (or purpose, post election) to argue against McCain.
Yes, I do. I really, really, REALLY do. I am sick and f'ing tired of my wife and I busting our asses day in and day out to pay for someone else to get something for nothing. Sorry. I am not opposed to helping someone out as an exception but not as the rule. You know, social security was meant to be a "safety net" for people that needed it. Now, it's bankrupting the nation. Nuh uh. No more handouts.
M
Mogluk
Guest
I would be much more for the idea of a "socialized" healthcare system if there was money to handle it, if you want a small but clear example of waht happens when gov has an unfunded mandate look at the child health care plan of Hawaii, it lasted 7 months, why? when the Gov't said that all children would be given healthcare regardless... they did not figure in that those who already paid for their childrens healthcare would cancel thier current plans and enroll them in the Government plan.
also if we are going to go more socialized lets really do it. lets block healthcare to non citizens, also lets make sur ethat they don't use our education ro benefit form our econimc stimulus plans, hell lets just close our borders to all immigrants (several "good" socialist countries do this) no one can immigrate to america.
Our country has the freest and easiest path to citizenship and also the best method for allowing its citizens any blessing or luxury if they work hard enough for it. I took out loans and put myself through school with 2 children and work at a company that gives great medical care. why? because I knew that if I wanted to make sure my children and my family were taken care of, I would have to do it. I am against any person who is not willing to put the time effort and blood into making it possible for them to take care of their family and themselves.
Hera I appreciate and understand the issues that you are discussing. but the fact remains that the majority of people who do not have decent healthcare coverage, do not because they do not take the measure necessary to achieve healthcare coverage.
if your current job does not offer healthcare coverage, what do you do?
1. get a job that does.
2. go to school to get more education, all universities have healthcare plans.
3. work more jobs, open your own business to make more money and buy your own healthcare coverage.
4. wait for the gov't to come up with a plan to meet your needs.
guess where the predominance of people fall into?
Do I like my job? For the most part yes, but its not flashy, and it allows me to do what I enjoy most, spend time with my family.
life is about choices, some choices are harder and more difficult than others. I am not saying that we cannot have programs to help people do the first three of my list, why , because the first three items all work to increase our soceity and in many cases our economy in the long run. when you wait for the gov't to fix your life, your a drain on the countries resources, look at australia they are denying entrance of a downs' syndrome child for that very reason.
Life is tough, if you are not tough enough for it, you don't deserve it.
also if we are going to go more socialized lets really do it. lets block healthcare to non citizens, also lets make sur ethat they don't use our education ro benefit form our econimc stimulus plans, hell lets just close our borders to all immigrants (several "good" socialist countries do this) no one can immigrate to america.
Our country has the freest and easiest path to citizenship and also the best method for allowing its citizens any blessing or luxury if they work hard enough for it. I took out loans and put myself through school with 2 children and work at a company that gives great medical care. why? because I knew that if I wanted to make sure my children and my family were taken care of, I would have to do it. I am against any person who is not willing to put the time effort and blood into making it possible for them to take care of their family and themselves.
Hera I appreciate and understand the issues that you are discussing. but the fact remains that the majority of people who do not have decent healthcare coverage, do not because they do not take the measure necessary to achieve healthcare coverage.
if your current job does not offer healthcare coverage, what do you do?
1. get a job that does.
2. go to school to get more education, all universities have healthcare plans.
3. work more jobs, open your own business to make more money and buy your own healthcare coverage.
4. wait for the gov't to come up with a plan to meet your needs.
guess where the predominance of people fall into?
Do I like my job? For the most part yes, but its not flashy, and it allows me to do what I enjoy most, spend time with my family.
life is about choices, some choices are harder and more difficult than others. I am not saying that we cannot have programs to help people do the first three of my list, why , because the first three items all work to increase our soceity and in many cases our economy in the long run. when you wait for the gov't to fix your life, your a drain on the countries resources, look at australia they are denying entrance of a downs' syndrome child for that very reason.
Life is tough, if you are not tough enough for it, you don't deserve it.
That's possibly the funniest comment in either political threads. Bush is not even CLOSE to being far-right. If he was, he'd have the support of conservatives which he certainly does not. He's only about as far from center as Clinton was, just to the right instead of the left. Now, if Obama governs on the platform he SAID, he will be moderate; if he governs on his RECORD, he'll be as far left as the scale goes. I am hoping for the former rather than the latter.
Why's that? Is it the being white or the being old that makes him a less suitable choice? One makes you a racist and the other makes you an ageist. I'd rather have the older man because he's got more experience in everything and because I am not a slave to political correctness. Remember, these are just two men, not McCain and Obama, per your statement.
So we won't have to hear about how racist we are now? Really? Do you actually believe that because I've already heard some black journalists complaining about some whiteys saying this election struck a blow to racism. Friend, even if racism does ever disappear, it will never disappear for some because there is way too much money in it.
Democratic controlled Congress (which controls the purse strings) with their 9% approval rating created "this mess." Let's see if Obama goes against his own party controlled Congress and makes it better. I sure hope so.
"Hera I appreciate and understand the issues that you are discussing. but the fact remains that the majority of people who do not have decent healthcare coverage, do not because they do not take the measure necessary to achieve healthcare coverage."
those in between jobs? people that lost their job and have a pre - exsisting condition while getting a new job?
"Democratic controlled Congress"
for how many years have they controlled congress?
I'm not here to sing praise about democrats, I'm here for barack Obama.
those in between jobs? people that lost their job and have a pre - exsisting condition while getting a new job?
"Democratic controlled Congress"
for how many years have they controlled congress?
I'm not here to sing praise about democrats, I'm here for barack Obama.
T
Trep
Guest
socialized medicine already exists here...you just have to be the right race to get it. and after seeing it in action...i'm not so sure i think its that good of idea anymore
I had to look it up. Approximately 73 of the last 108 years have been under the control of the Dems. I want to say before the Contract with America GOP landslide, the Dems had it for around 40 years.
I'm here for the country. Unfortunately, now he's my President. I'll always respect that office even if I don't respect the man.
I don't think that's a fair comment. This country basis more on your socioeconomic status than it does your race.
[rant] This country is so screwed until they get rid of this ****ing 2 party system. All they do is fight. "he had his **** sucked., there no weapons of mass destruction." I voted for Paul in primaries and Barr yesterday. Why is there still no line item vote? All they care about is how much money the can stuff in their pockets and running for office. How much money did they spend to get a job that pays $400,000 job?
They should have it who comes in first as president and 2nd place is vise president. Then lock them both in a room until they solve the problems [/rant]
They should have it who comes in first as president and 2nd place is vise president. Then lock them both in a room until they solve the problems [/rant]
T
Trep
Guest
nope...its a program based 100% on race. horray for equality :/
G
Goron
Guest
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
Sweeney, you just tipped your hand- it is apparent you are not nearly as knowledgeable about politics as you seem to think.
B
Black magick
Guest
Red, instead of attacking us why not give us reasons as to why the debaters should see it the same way as you? I haven't seen you add anything to this thread other than attacks.
They are all wrong on both sides. They lie as much as they see fit. I don't know much about politcal stuff except that they are all a bunch of liars. The only thing I know at this point is that some guy named Obama said we would all get a stimulus check for $1000.00 if he was elected and now I hear no mention of it at all. He mentioned that we would all have to do hard work and sacrifice last night. That is just crap. I am not giving up anything. I want my $1000.00 check.
"I'll always respect that office"
you are doing an outstanding job.
he only thing I know at this point is that some guy named Obama said we would all get a stimulus check for $1000.00
Did he say on nov 5 you would get a rebate. Did he say everyone in US would get 1,000?
you are doing an outstanding job.
he only thing I know at this point is that some guy named Obama said we would all get a stimulus check for $1000.00
Did he say on nov 5 you would get a rebate. Did he say everyone in US would get 1,000?
1. It's not all that easy to find a job that does at times. But yes, I agree it can be done, but it's not something that 'click' is done overnight, it may take months to find a new job. My daughter would be deaf and may lose any chance of having 3d vision during that time.
2. Who's going to support my family while I get that education? And yes, I can take night classes/etc, but a normal full time degree takes 4 years, in the 6-8 years of part-time education my daughter would be deaf and definitely lose any chance of having 3d vision during that time.
3. Buying your own healthcare coverage is insanely expensive. This is a poor choice. Small businesses get the shaft typically when it comes to healthcare. When why I didn't have healthcare when I worked at the Bike Shop, they couldn't afford it.
4. While some people fall into this category, I think you're lumping everyone into it and what of the people who don't? Just because some people will 'freeload' off the system you're willing to toss all the others who legitimately can use it out to dry?
I willing to be a vast majority of us Siegers are college educated people. It's hard to imagine someone who just doesn't have the capacity to complete college, but they are out there. So by your 'life is tough' quote are you saying if you're born with a low IQ they you just deserve to die?
I don't think there's an easy solution, but I also don't think that 'get a better job' is a solution either.
Nice play on words... : )Oh, and I just want to be the first to say that we've already had one Democrat in the Oral Office with a cigar (points to title)!
B
Black magick
Guest
Actually cheapy, you aren't the only one who can affect your destiny. Others have a decent affect on who and what you become as well. The problem with us coming together as a whole toward one goal, is there will always be people who disagree with that course of action.
Obama said it on Jan. 13, 2008. He said that the middle class working people and seniors who had annual income below $50,000 would recieve a check for $1000.00. This was part of his economic stimulus package. I want my $1000.00 check.
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