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Sampires - Time to nurf.

PwnySlaystation

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Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please.
 

King Greg

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After the taming change which gives players pets that can discord, ai, aoe, crossheal and self heal for 240 point investment, you want to nerf sampires?

Do you want tamers online? Because that's how you get tamer's online.

The real question is, now that we have these over powered pets that can have 1040 skill points, higher resists than players in 4/5 resists, 120 parry block chance, more base damage than a player with 120 tactics, 100 damage increase, and max damage modifier, what the hell sort of monsters are the dev's planning on throwing at us next and how is anything but a tamer going to stand up to it?
 

MalagAste

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After the taming change which gives players pets that can discord, ai, aoe, crossheal and self heal for 240 point investment, you want to nerf sampires?

Do you want tamers online? Because that's how you get tamer's online.

The real question is, now that we have these over powered pets that can have 1040 skill points, higher resists than players in 4/5 resists, 120 parry block chance, more base damage than a player with 120 tactics, 100 damage increase, and max damage modifier, what the hell sort of monsters are the dev's planning on throwing at us next and how is anything but a tamer going to stand up to it?
Yet they still all suck... imagine that... if you really understood the changes to Taming you would see that the tamer isn't any better off or doing more of anything much than they were with a GD...
 

King Greg

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Yet they still all suck... imagine that... if you really understood the changes to Taming you would see that the tamer isn't any better off or doing more of anything much than they were with a GD...
If I really understood the changes to taming......

Offensively you have several pets that can now out DPS a greater dragon, especially against specific targets with weak resists. AOE? AOE DP Breath? Whirlwind? Not Better than a greater in a spawn? no? Armor Ignore? Armor Pierce? Have you tried using a specific elemental damage pet with armor pierce in conjunction with a swordsman with onslaught/corpse skin? Ever seen a fire beetle in doom?

Defensively you can now bump cu sidhes up to 120 healing/120 anatomy, and give them 80's in 4 resists tailored for what they are fighting, and that's just the start. Spellweaving, myst, or discord on top of that. Or 120 Bushido + parrying on a hiryu. Feint? Repel(Still not sure if that one really works) Not to mention MOUNTABLE so you can literally just jump on it if it's dying and heal it while mounted. Oh and some pets have overcapped resists you can use for specific fights.

Not much better off?

Either you had one hell of a greater dragon, or you've built some really crappy pets. I think the consensus on the forums has been that people will probably never pull their greaters back out of the stables.

Give it a few months for players to get the hang of it and to show what can be done in pvm with them and players will realize that nothing else will get you as much bang for your buck as 240 points into taming and lore.
 

BeaIank

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If they give mages spell life leech and spell mana leech, they will be as viable as sampires and dragoons in PvM.
And people will have more fun in PvM.
 

Slayvite

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What I read from the OP's post was......" I just got killed in Fel by a Sampire...nerf Sampires, they are obviously over-powered and it's not just that I suck at PvP".

Oh and if you cannot PvM on a Mage???!!!? My god...go play Hello Kitty Online.....
 

MalagAste

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If I really understood the changes to taming......

Offensively you have several pets that can now out DPS a greater dragon, especially against specific targets with weak resists. AOE? AOE DP Breath? Whirlwind? Not Better than a greater in a spawn? no? Armor Ignore? Armor Pierce? Have you tried using a specific elemental damage pet with armor pierce in conjunction with a swordsman with onslaught/corpse skin? Ever seen a fire beetle in doom?

Defensively you can now bump cu sidhes up to 120 healing/120 anatomy, and give them 80's in 4 resists tailored for what they are fighting, and that's just the start. Spellweaving, myst, or discord on top of that. Or 120 Bushido + parrying on a hiryu. Feint? Repel(Still not sure if that one really works) Not to mention MOUNTABLE so you can literally just jump on it if it's dying and heal it while mounted. Oh and some pets have overcapped resists you can use for specific fights.

Not much better off?

Either you had one hell of a greater dragon, or you've built some really crappy pets. I think the consensus on the forums has been that people will probably never pull their greaters back out of the stables.

Give it a few months for players to get the hang of it and to show what can be done in pvm with them and players will realize that nothing else will get you as much bang for your buck as 240 points into taming and lore.
A Greater Dragon on a good day does one 10th the damage any dexer, mager or anything else can do so what exactly is your point????

Sampires rule UO in PvM anymore... go to an EM Event and see the 4 or 5 GROUPS of Multiboxed Sampires, Wraith throwers etc... you see several tamers there with Dragons... and you "think" they are getting all the drops... but really if they were you would have how many multiboxing tamers at the EM Events but you don't ever see that... reason... THEY SUCK.

Tamers have needed this boost for years... but like most everything else out in the last 4 or 5 years it's another complicated mess with poor coding, lots of ticked off players losing their beloved pets from dozens of bugs... Losing awesome hued rare pets colors due to bugs, having pets go randomly wild for no reason and finally... messing up their pet because the system for "imbuing" them is overly complicated, poorly coded, even more poorly implimented, and obscurely worded... with a 1/2 ass job done on it so you have no idea your about to destroy your pet and hours of work until it's too late...

Tell me another fable... Sampires are IMO a problem and always have been but the game doesn't matter anymore it's all about stuff, getting stuff, having stuff and making a buck...

If you want to go back to 1999.... good luck. But back then I could have had 20+ Dragons in tow and blasted you out of existence in a nano-second.

Now I don't know about other tamers but I can say this... I can't solo a spawn on autopilot with the new pets... While I was loving them for a second the fact that their mana is deplorable now and even if you give them 1,500 Mana (which you can on some pets) it don't mean jack because in 3.5 seconds that 1,500 mana is going to be down to <20 and there it will stay for the duration of whatever you are doing.... so having all that "extra" boosts don't mean jack... sure the pets won't die when something breathes on them anymore as they did prior to the publish which is why you NEVER saw anyone take anything OTHER than a GD anywhere but they aren't uber outdamaging they are actually getting slightly more in line with everyone else however still fall FAR short of the mark when compared to a good ABC Archer, Wraith Thrower, Spellweaver with WoD and a good suit and such, or a Sampire... so quit acting like it's the end of the world...

Finally remember a pet doesn't have add SDI, no FC/FCR, and NO LMC. They don't have Slayers, Slayer Talismans, Slayer Weapons or any of that either..... and if I have to hear one more time about how the tamer can have this and that I will tell you again that a Tamer has 360 skills wrapped up in Taming, Lore and Vet..... they are 1/2 of what any other mage, spellweaver, archer, dexer or anything else could be and the PET does NOT make that up... Not by the slightest.
 

cdavbar

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Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please.
Soooooo you want people to be forced to play the templates you like to play?

If you have ever followed the history of the Sampire you would see it HAS been nerfed, time and time again. In addition to a Sampire I also play a Mage/SW/Mystic that can solo a good portion of the bosses in game, should we nerf those skills too? I also have a tamer but have just started using him again here and there, mostly just for the roof with small groups.

The beautiful thing about UO is that people can make a plethora of templates, some better than others. Sampires have multiple templates, not just one and done. Same with mages, mystics, etc. etc. So with that being said, how would they be able to "kill" it? They tried to kill it by requiring real skill for vamp form, check. Put timers on Evade, check. Put timers on apples (although that was also for PvP, not just PvM), check. Those are just a few examples. Aside from making it so you cant use necro with a melee skill, you will never "kill" it. Even then, people have shown they can make viable builds using healing instead of necromancy, so again, you haven't stopped anything by killing the Sampire.

Now, on the other hand, the changes in Doom now make it so most sampires can no longer solo the Dark Father. The roof is a area that is horrible for a sampire. Do I despise the new Doom changes, yes, but, its only changes like that that will have a chance at promoting group play, or multi-boxing, but more or less it just promotes multi-boxing at this stage.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.
I would not say with ease..

the gear is nowhere near cheap - well, at least not the good stuff
there is a pretty steep learning curve
and I still see Sampire corpses a good bit

most especially mine lol but I am still learning the temp.
 

Wing Zero Straight Edge

Seasoned Veteran
To be honest, Sampires are boring as hell to play. Zzz
Retired my Sampire into thief poisoner which I now call a Pirate for a more RPG feeling because my Sampire was built so typical, yes ridiculously strong hammering PvP and PvM but sooooooooooooooooo boring!

Ps my mage bard is sitting on about 124 SDI pure 120 mag/eval and hits like a truck in PvM. No complaints here.
 

Fridgster

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You think sampires are over powered? Wait till my 5 lesser hiryus bond. Each has 115+ wrestling, 105+ tactics and 70+ in fire and physical resists. Oh yeah gonna be a paaaaarty!!
 

RhelHalcyon

Journeyman
Nerf nerfs we've had enerf
I was thinking if there is any issue with balance, leave sampire where its at, and make other skills more viable/on sampires level. Sampire has been around since... well when did bushido come out again? lol

Also - people still cry about taming ruining PvP? It seems life lessons from 1997 still have not been learned. Kill the tamer, and ignore the tame or have someone in your party who gets the "all kill" command to lure the tame away. In PvP against a tamer just remember you're never 1v1 so if you make the decision of jumping a tamer and having its pet hand you your rump on a platter, its no one's fault but your own. I've found that generally a sampire can ignore most pets and kill the tamer before the pet gets you. At least my sampire can.
 

Merlin

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Yet they still all suck... imagine that... if you really understood the changes to Taming you would see that the tamer isn't any better off or doing more of anything much than they were with a GD...
You will simply never be happy no matter what change is made in this game.

Saying that Tamers are no better off under the Pet Revamp is absurd.

A Greater Dragon on a good day does one 10th the damage any dexer, mager or anything else can do so what exactly is your point????
You're wrong. A TAMER (note I said that and not just a GD) should be doing plenty of damage if they have planned their template correctly and are doing more than just sitting back and say "All Kill".

Sampires rule UO in PvM anymore... go to an EM Event and see the 4 or 5 GROUPS of Multiboxed Sampires, Wraith throwers etc... you see several tamers there with Dragons... and you "think" they are getting all the drops... but really if they were you would have how many multiboxing tamers at the EM Events but you don't ever see that... reason... THEY SUCK.
Playing in the biggest guild in UO... hardly anyone brings their sampires to EM events... or multi-boxes. People bring throwers, tamers and mystic mages.

Tamers have needed this boost for years... but like most everything else out in the last 4 or 5 years it's another complicated mess with poor coding, lots of ticked off players losing their beloved pets from dozens of bugs... Losing awesome hued rare pets colors due to bugs, having pets go randomly wild for no reason and finally... messing up their pet because the system for "imbuing" them is overly complicated, poorly coded, even more poorly implimented, and obscurely worded... with a 1/2 ass job done on it so you have no idea your about to destroy your pet and hours of work until it's too late...
Dozens of bugs? Messing up their pets from complicated imbue system?

The system is easy to follow... the planning part isn't. It requires thinking, reading up on what you're doing and spending time on Test Center before you make final decision. There are plenty of ways to make sure your pet is right before imbuing the skills/mods/stats before you "destroy your pet".

Not surprised you would turn a thread about sampires into one of your sessions of complaining your Tamer is still under powered after getting the biggest revamp to the Tamer class this game has ever seen.

Now I don't know about other tamers but I can say this... I can't solo a spawn on autopilot with the new pets... While I was loving them for a second the fact that their mana is deplorable now and even if you give them 1,500 Mana (which you can on some pets) it don't mean jack because in 3.5 seconds that 1,500 mana is going to be down to <20 and there it will stay for the duration of whatever you are doing.... so having all that "extra" boosts don't mean jack... sure the pets won't die when something breathes on them anymore as they did prior to the publish which is why you NEVER saw anyone take anything OTHER than a GD anywhere but they aren't uber outdamaging they are actually getting slightly more in line with everyone else however still fall FAR short of the mark when compared to a good ABC Archer, Wraith Thrower, Spellweaver with WoD and a good suit and such, or a Sampire... so quit acting like it's the end of the world...
Tamers shouldn't be able to auto pilot a champ spawn. For that matter, Tamers should be WEAK on champ spawns since they are incredibly strong in almost every other encounter in the game.

Most of the entire rest of that paragraph is incoherent rambling that has nothing to do with the OP's topic.

I do fine with my Tamer in almost all content and get drops with that toon at EM events. The problem here must reside with the player and not the template.


Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please.
Mages are still a viable PVM option and the majority of PVM content requires a team. What they need to do is introduce new content that is DIFFICULT and cannot be solo'ed by any template. But then the people on dead shards who can't get 5 people together will cry they're unable to experience the new content and it doesn't jive with their refusal to play in a group or attempt to experience any template that might require a little work on their end. In short, either way, someone is going to moan and complain.

Sampires cannot "solo everything in the game with ease". That is simply a false statement. Sure it is the one solo template that can do a number of Peerless bosses and champ spawns solo, but it takes time and effort. It isn't just some auto-pilot activity. Even just doing a solo run of Medusa or Lady Mel... sure it's possible... but if anything goes wrong (i.e., running out of Gorgon lenses, not killing all the satyrs or undead gargs), then there is going to be havoc and death robes.

And if you are doing champ spawns on Atlantic solo... good luck with your chances of avoiding a raid... especially if it's at any decent hour EST.
 

Uvtha

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You think sampires are over powered? Wait till my 5 lesser hiryus bond. Each has 115+ wrestling, 105+ tactics and 70+ in fire and physical resists. Oh yeah gonna be a paaaaarty!!
lol... every new pet has the stats you listed or better, and Sampires are still more powerful (than anything that doesn't have rune corruption) because of mana leech allowing for chained AI/double strike, if nothing else. I don't think samps need a nerf because of how expensive they are, the difficulty in playing/gearing one correctly, and the high risk factor. If anything it's time for mages to get a pvm boost, everything else is fine.
 

Fridgster

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lol... every new pet has the stats you listed or better, and Sampires are still more powerful (than anything that doesn't have rune corruption) because of mana leech allowing for chained AI/double strike, if nothing else. I don't think samps need a nerf because of how expensive they are, the difficulty in playing/gearing one correctly, and the high risk factor. If anything it's time for mages to get a pvm boost, everything else is fine.
I don't need to change a thing with my sampire template to run 5 lessers. Bushido is the only requirement :)

* think I was unclear with previous post. Sampires got a great deal of extra firepower in this publish. Ai's for 180 plus 5 lesser plus onslaught equals DAMN!
 

Merlin

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If anything it's time for mages to get a pvm boost, everything else is fine.
^^^^ This.

After the pet revamp and the continued strength of Sampires, it is time for the spellcasting skills to get a second look.

Rather than bring a template down, others should be brought 'up', along with the difficulty of various end-boss encounters.
 

Lore

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Non-Sampire melee templates need a buff. Some damage reduction beyond 70% resist or additional HP or something.
 

BeaIank

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^^^^ This.

After the pet revamp and the continued strength of Sampires, it is time for the spellcasting skills to get a second look.

Rather than bring a template down, others should be brought 'up', along with the difficulty of various end-boss encounters.
Been saying this for a while.
It will be so much easier to balance content once every fighting class has similar survivability capabilities.
Tamers got their much needed bump, which is still being tweaked, but so far, so good. Would be better without the crazy slot calculation thingy, but everything is just so much better than it was.
Next casters need to get their PvM boost to increase their survivability.
 

Lord Arm

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Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please

I agree with what u are saying but not sure if anything will be done. there's no comparison between them and other warriors.I often wondered how/why chiv was able to be used in combo with necro without much of a problem. I remember there being a lot of paladin warriors, I still have one. chars good for cross healing but is nothing compared to the samp. a lot of akers use the samp for farming or nearly anything else in game. along with the use of multi chars with buffs/auto healing/protectors, there is no need to hunt with others. this widely affects any new or returning player let alone existing players. many new or returning do not stay with the game. just my opinions, not going to matter.
 

PwnySlaystation

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Thanks for all the die-hard trammy replies, i now know who to take seriously or not on these forums.
 

Merlin

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Thanks for all the die-hard trammy replies, i now know who to take seriously or not on these forums.
What do you even propose be nerfed?

Sure "Nerf the Sampire" might be rally call for a template you don't like... but getting down to the nitty gritty details... nerfing almost any mod/ability is likely to have a negative affect on several other templates.
 

OREOGL

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Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please.
Rigghttttt.......


Might as well pull the plug now.
 

Uvtha

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I don't need to change a thing with my sampire template to run 5 lessers. Bushido is the only requirement :)

* think I was unclear with previous post. Sampires got a great deal of extra firepower in this publish. Ai's for 180 plus 5 lesser plus onslaught equals DAMN!
You do realize you can't train them and have them remain 1 slot right? If you train them they go up in slot and require taming to control. :/
 

Uvtha

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Non-Sampire melee templates need a buff. Some damage reduction beyond 70% resist or additional HP or something.
I think there are plenty of viable non sampire melee templates. 120 chiv, healing, and 100% hit life leech weapon are perfectly viable. My last warrior used vamp form, but not bushido.
 

Fridgster

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You do realize you can't train them and have them remain 1 slot right? If you train them they go up in slot and require taming to control. :/
Have yet to have any of them increase in slots. Those are natural stats at level 1.
 

Tjalle

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Seems like folks missed the trollism in the OP...
 

Uvtha

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Have yet to have any of them increase in slots. Those are natural stats at level 1.
But I mean you could always do that, that's how they have always been. The patch didn't give them anything unless you train them.
 
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Fridgster

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But I mean you could always do that. The patch didn't give them anything unless you train them.
The have grasping claw which drops physical resist. That combined with onslaught gives you hits for about 20ish. Times that by 5 and I'm adding nearly 100 points of damage. That plus my 180ish ai adds up real fast.
 

Uvtha

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The have grasping claw which drops physical resist. That combined with onslaught gives you hits for about 20ish. Times that by 5 and I'm adding nearly 100 points of damage. That plus my 180ish ai adds up real fast.
Yeah, I just don't see it being a whole lot more effective than it ever was. GC really isn't super noticeable, from what I've tried.
 

Capt. Lucky

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If it's anti what your favorite class is, it's a troll. If it's a class you don't play it's perfectly fine. With the populations on many shards I personally like stronger solo characters. But the enforcement of the TOS around here seems very in tune to what the moderators personally like or not like.
 

Deraj

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Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please.
The Sampire itself isn't so much the problem but rather a symptom of a deeper problem. The underlying issue which likely no one on this forum will agree with me on is the "dark triad" of armor ignore / double strike => mana / life leech => damage modifier (slayer, EoO, honor) that allows a player to chain specials to achieve damage levels that shouldn't really be possible. I don't say this lightly, as I have sampire and sampire-like characters myself and use them regularly, but I don't allow my playstyle to blind me to the obvious imbalance at play here. It's not that mage templates are behind the curve, it's that warrior templates are way ahead. Power creep is a real issue in UO.

What is the solution? Well, you could buff mages and everything else, and continue the power creep trend that makes the common monster less meaningful. Then you could buff monsters to keep up (and thereby implementing a soft nerf against warrior templates). Or you could nerf either leeches or the damage modifier (doesn't have to be both). My prediction: the various templates in UO will continue to get buffed and Britannia will continue to lose its sense of danger and challenge.
 

GarthGrey

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Yes, please boost PVM Myst/Mages so they can leech back mana and hps from the damage/casting of EVs?RCs, all while they cast invis and sit and wait.
 

omukai

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If pets could run scripts like NPC companions in Baldur's Gate, disengage to heal, use skills that taunt or absorb damage for you, then they'd be near the level of a char that directly applies damage and can use the right spells/skills at the right moment.
My Chiv Cu casts EoO in a spawn with 5 different kinds of monsters, gets swarmed and goes down faster than Paris Hilton.
My AI Cu dumps tons of mana in mere seconds, then can't drop a heal on top of his bandy because it's OOM.

King Greg compares crude pet AI with player intelligence.
King Greg looks terribly silly.
Don't be like King Greg.
 

TB Cookie [W]

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The Sampire itself isn't so much the problem but rather a symptom of a deeper problem. The underlying issue which likely no one on this forum will agree with me on is the "dark triad" of armor ignore / double strike => mana / life leech => damage modifier (slayer, EoO, honor) that allows a player to chain specials to achieve damage levels that shouldn't really be possible. I don't say this lightly, as I have sampire and sampire-like characters myself and use them regularly, but I don't allow my playstyle to blind me to the obvious imbalance at play here. It's not that mage templates are behind the curve, it's that warrior templates are way ahead. Power creep is a real issue in UO.

What is the solution? Well, you could buff mages and everything else, and continue the power creep trend that makes the common monster less meaningful. Then you could buff monsters to keep up (and thereby implementing a soft nerf against warrior templates). Or you could nerf either leeches or the damage modifier (doesn't have to be both). My prediction: the various templates in UO will continue to get buffed and Britannia will continue to lose its sense of danger and challenge.
100% yes. I have been trying to point this out for a long time.
I got told to adapt, so I'm building a Tamer and Sampire now...
(Just wanted to make the game even more the same...)
So I care less overall, but the issue for Pure Mages is still there, and it does affect me, as it's my favourite playstyle.


Trying to understand Sean's logic, as I know we never willingly agree on anything...
I don't think Sean strictly believes in what he has posted here as he doesn't really give a monkey's about any templates, but he has posted it for a reason, not sure what.

My best guess is that Sean has run out of people to pvp against in Fel, as you only run into the odd Sampire here and there soloing spawns now?
The mages have pretty much quit - as Sean say's, there is no reason for them anymore really, not the best at pvm (only low level), can't compete against weapon user hybrids in pvp.
I think Sean wants more teams to fight against in Fel, and the backbone of the fun teams are mages.


Onto other areas discussed.
1. Yes, a Sampire can solo anything in game with ease. To Merlin, you need to see our Sampires - even Roof.
2. The Tamer patch for Tamers was a huge success, I'm enjoying it. But ultimately, it has not made Tamers that much stronger or OP. It has given them more customisation, it allows them to customise pets for encounters, it allows lower level tamers to be more involved and enjoy far more of the game content, but ultimately they are not that much stronger than GD days, and still don't really compete with a Sampire. A huge enjoyable patch was introduced, that did not upset the status quo - well done developers.
 
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TB Cookie [W]

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And my further opinion re PvP and the last failed PvP patch.

Why do I say failed - because PvP and the number of PvPers and templates involved has reduced drastically since.
Everyone carries a weapon almost, Lethal Poison, Deathstrike, Splinter ec etc abound, chain specials for which no-one has any counter for are ripped off fast as lightning.
All of this is press of a button, automated, instant, unstoppable.
None of this is fun.

My opinion is, the developers only listened to Ayeko for advice when they were consulting, and he was hell bent on having a tank mage, sod everyone else.
No-one thought of overall balance.
We were there trying to put a word in for mages, and no-one listened.

A few elite pvpers got what they wanted, and pvp is now far too complicated for anyone else quite frankly, including me.
Most other players are now being shut out.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Time to kill the Sampire. Its gone on too long of single characters being able to solo almost everything in the game with ease.

Bring back an excuse to find a team and make mages a viable pvm option again please.
How about making slayer trinkets usable for casting, designing a usable pair of high resist SDI gloves, and finally allowing us to use Moiety for starters?

Edit: after careful thought, scratch the rest. I imagine 10 characters all casting flamestrike flooding the screen instead of the typical enemy of one, and I don't like that thought.
 
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Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The Sampire itself isn't so much the problem but rather a symptom of a deeper problem. The underlying issue which likely no one on this forum will agree with me on is the "dark triad" of armor ignore / double strike => mana / life leech => damage modifier (slayer, EoO, honor) that allows a player to chain specials to achieve damage levels that shouldn't really be possible. I don't say this lightly, as I have sampire and sampire-like characters myself and use them regularly, but I don't allow my playstyle to blind me to the obvious imbalance at play here. It's not that mage templates are behind the curve, it's that warrior templates are way ahead. Power creep is a real issue in UO.

What is the solution? Well, you could buff mages and everything else, and continue the power creep trend that makes the common monster less meaningful. Then you could buff monsters to keep up (and thereby implementing a soft nerf against warrior templates). Or you could nerf either leeches or the damage modifier (doesn't have to be both). My prediction: the various templates in UO will continue to get buffed and Britannia will continue to lose its sense of danger and challenge.
You aren't wrong, specials are absolutly imbalanced, and leeches are no longer optional. There is no easy solution of this, you can't just remove or dramatically depower those things without altering the whole rest of the game as well, since without them you can't really be a warrior, and any other class would instantly be superior in a big way. The people who didn't quit would become tamers, or face needing a group to kill a balron.

Power creep unfortunately is pretty much unavoidable with item permanence, so you simply have to periodically boost stuff up, including loot, skills, monsters... just to give people something to do.
 

King Greg

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
King Greg compares crude pet AI with player intelligence.
King Greg looks terribly silly.
Don't be like King Greg.
At what point did I ever compare pets to player intelligence? Please, go back and point it out to me. I listed the abilities that pets could have and I compared the offensive and defensive capabilities of pets compared to a greater dragon.

My Chiv Cu casts EoO in a spawn with 5 different kinds of monsters, gets swarmed and goes down faster than Paris Hilton.
You put chivalry on a spawning pet and expect it to not sink like a rock? Double damage, that's like giving it half resists and expecting it to stay alive. :wall:

My AI Cu dumps tons of mana in mere seconds, then can't drop a heal on top of his bandy because it's OOM.
What's it's Mana regeneration, What's its intelligence, what's it's mana pool, what's it's meditation and focus, what other abilities did you give it. If you are running chivalry in a spawn I question everything from now on.

omukai expects a pet with chivalry to do well in a spawn
omukai looks pretty silly after all the posts here on the forums about what a terrible idea that is
Don't be like omukai
 

Deraj

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You aren't wrong, specials are absolutly imbalanced, and leeches are no longer optional. There is no easy solution of this, you can't just remove or dramatically depower those things without altering the whole rest of the game as well, since without them you can't really be a warrior, and any other class would instantly be superior in a big way. The people who didn't quit would become tamers, or face needing a group to kill a balron.

Power creep unfortunately is pretty much unavoidable with item permanence, so you simply have to periodically boost stuff up, including loot, skills, monsters... just to give people something to do.
I would agree, but I would suggest that while power creep is an inevitable result, it could be better controlled. The very moment I first saw the crimson cincture however many years ago it was introduced, an item for a slot that until that moment never had any special properties available, I knew exactly the path we were headed and here we are. It seems like every time a new round of artifacts are introduced, they don't (at least, in my view for whatever that's worth) have any rhyme or reason. Attributes are put on slots that never before had them. Legendary artifacts contribute to the problem. More and more, the concept of trade offs diminish with each new artifact. And some artifacts never get used because of how blatantly useless they are. Ultimately the point I'm driving at is that, I am not entirely convinced the devs are taking power creep into consideration, or that there is any kind of overarching, fundamental design principle being applied. Instead we're playing whack-a-mole with the various templates and "classes" and eventually ending up with this kind of rube goldberg system that lacks as much elegance as it lacks challenge and meaning.

Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying, here and now, nerf this or that. I think it would be futile without a grander vision. If the devs have one in mind, I am not aware.
 

PlayerSkillFTW

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
If they give mages spell life leech and spell mana leech, they will be as viable as sampires and dragoons in PvM.
And people will have more fun in PvM.
Wraith Form grants Mana Drain. Only difference between it and Mana Leech, is that it actually takes Mana from the victim, which has it's ups and downs. If the victim runs out of Mana, you can't drain any more Mana from them, but it also means the victim won't be casting anything. When AoS first came out, there was a bug that allowed Curse Weapon's Life Drain to affect spells, it was hilarious. You could literally sit in the middle of a Champ Spawn in Wraith Form and spam Wither, and never die.
 

BeaIank

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Wraith Form grants Mana Drain. Only difference between it and Mana Leech, is that it actually takes Mana from the victim, which has it's ups and downs. If the victim runs out of Mana, you can't drain any more Mana from them, but it also means the victim won't be casting anything. When AoS first came out, there was a bug that allowed Curse Weapon's Life Drain to affect spells, it was hilarious. You could literally sit in the middle of a Champ Spawn in Wraith Form and spam Wither, and never die.
That must have been a fun time. :D
And yeah, almost all my casters are human so I can maintain wraith form without having to have necro on my jewels. I do love it.
But it is sub-optimal against monsters like Navrey who have a very small mana pool.
 
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