Resources - is 2 clients truly worth it?

[Lady Storm]

This poll is at the moment 50 / 50 you see the feelings on both sides of this coin. If you got rid of one that side would cry and quit, do it to the other and you would get the same results. We have gone beyond the point of voting to stop one or the other. Now unless something major happpened and the result was not a we could be we have to senerio happened...
I do not like EC but I will not take it from players who use it. Think of it this way... had they gotten things back to the classic client way... 3d wouldnt be there at all. And how many wanted that. Graphics is not a concern to me, but the game content IS. I have played far better graphics games but I have never left UO, those other games dont compair to the range i can play in UO. Even Wow with its game play cant top UO in this aspect.

 

[Penana Car]

If something isn't done, people won't have a choice. We won't be arguing over which is the better client, we'll be arguing over which freeshard to play, because there won't be an official UO if things keep on going the way they've been going since 2004.

'Atta fella. I knew you had a heart! People need to set the bar higher and have better expectations for UO or 'tis like a candle in the wind, never knowing who to cling to when the rain set in. And I would've liked to have known UO, but I was just a kid. The candle burned out long before UO's legend ever did! Loneliness was tough. The toughest role UO ever played. Richard Garriott created a superstar. And pain was the price UO paid...All the press had to say was that he sold the game to EA. Kleenex please...speechless

What UO really needs is a saviour, nothing short of a Rocket Man to spice things up. I truly believe I'm that Rocket Man and EA needs to hire me ASAP to get things rolling again. I foresee a 1,000 pixel wide asteroid hitting a few shards just to size things down a little to start out with. Sorry dude, your 18x18 is gone but the game is going to get better because of it.

SUSTAINABILITY.

 

[FrejaSP]

I would not axe any of them, I would like to somewhat merge them if possible. I play CC but if EC was not so bugged, I would use it.

 

[JJMcClure]

My vote is for CC for now. I have played the EC and I don't care much for it. The CC is easier (to me) to setup and play and it also feels less cluttered. Like others have said though, the only reason I still play CC is because there hasn't been anything else that compares to it. As for the dwindling sub. numbers. I blame that on 3 things.
1. When was the last time you saw any ads for UO?
2. It is extremely hard to start this game from scratch. I try and help new players when I can and there number one compliant is trying to get started. You can't just pick up a weapon and armor and go kill stuff like you used to. Now you have to make sure all your resists are decent and your weapon has ok mods on it. When was the last time you went hunting with GM armor and weapons. I tried and got my but handed to my by the simplest of monsters.
3. 3 kinda ties in to 2. The economy!!!!! Things are so expensive in the game that new players get shell shocked. When your in say shame and the earth elem. are only giving 300 or so gold and you go to a player run vender and see an ok not great weapon or piece of armor that costs 5mil it kinda makes you think twice. I have been playing since 2001 and I still get shell shock by the price of things.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

You can not focus on the two you have to think about what they both have that is good. Like the UI in the enhanced is so much better. The 2d dose not have anything but it makes a good blue print for new and better maps. A world that looks like 2d but is all 3d. I would keep a shard the way 2d is now and just let it stay the same. Like if you made a new box for the new server it could use an old box look. If you could not use some type of system that would do it for you and make that box. So you could do the same with spawns just use what you already have.

Its not just the looks you have to remember its the bugs. like things that stick up in floors the big blocks not being able to code dir-x .. Then its about looks how close is it to what you think UO looks like now. I do not think it even had to be as good as kr was. I mean it was the same thing.... I was hoping they would change stuff like the maps ,, make cities bigger and move buildings out add more land and change land so it looks better like rivers water falls trees.

Kr was the same pretty much nothing not even shade could be changed... Kinda sad to waste that even if it did drop to the ground and vbounce you to the desk top.. I remember when we started UO we had alot more things like lag. I think it took me 20 min one time to walk from the bank in Del to the smith forge.. I did it And that says alot about the us the players and what we are willing to do to play. Time would of fixed all the bugs it had. Now We would be playable. So we have to change this all again new art.. Dose this art fix it? Like making floors bigger so stuff dose not pop up .. are we going to see the flames move again?

Even in 2d the stuff could never be done.. They would need to add in 3d art.. It seems like its wrong to let go of the old 2d but how can you do it if you do not.. I could name a list of things that turn the players away and you can not fix them with out real 3d. I can not say whats right and i would hate to be the one to make the changes but I do not think you can do it any other way. If you add the UI to the 2d that is a big step but there is so much more like being able to have weather 3d sounds.. I do not think they can just add that stuff with out changing the code. So we are not just saying we do not like the looks we are trying to make a better game. We are not doing what is best for us but what is best for UO. We might not be here in a few days.. We have to do not whats best for us but what will work in the next few years , who knows maybe the next 30 years.. I would hate to see them still talking about this then..

We have to focus on fixing and making things work if 2d can not do some things that enhanced can then its time to let the old 2d maps go.

 

[Lady Silverbrook]

Not that they have the funds, but there needs to be a third option that both are horribly archaic and outdated and need replaced by a functioning 3d client that has a decent UI (which does not necessitate a player made one) and decent graphics. It can remain isometric, if it must.

Both clients are tragically lacking. I am appalled that both sides fight... hm, I mean discuss so loudly and fervently.

 

[Tina Small]

What is the benefit of maintaining two clients? If one had to go I'm presuming the classic client would stick around. When EA will not lower the subscription cost, why not axe one client or the other, to put out better quality patches etc. What is the worth without the subscriber base of running two clients? Tell me how this is a smart business decision, to run 2 clients for a game on life support.

Dermott already hit on this idea in his reply, but I'm going to add to it by pointing you at an interview Mesanna had with mmorpg.com back in January. Read the third sentence of Mesanna's answer to the first question of the interview. I think that this statement, coming as it does from Mesanna, explains quite well one of the main reasons why we still have the "classic client."

Ultima Online (UO) Interviews: Fifteen Years & Counting at MMORPG.com

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Erm... But the 3rd sentence is something that can be done regardless of the client.

Nostalgia is a bad reason.

Edit: When I was in cooking school in the 90's (before I decided that I couldn't tolerate the Gordon Ramseys of the world) they taught age-old techniques to ensure new chefs had the basics down. Several of the classes prepared food for actual public sale. In one of them, we had to make mayonnaise...from scratch. So, everyone breaks out bowls and whisks. I look at them like they're crazy, since I knew we had to make the equivalent of 2 gallons to supply the entire school. I ask why they were thinking so primitively as I open the cabinet containing the immersion blenders. They/we were taught the basics, but many were so mired in those ruts that they couldn't conceive of using modern tech.

All us vets learned on the CC, but for UO to grow and achieve new things we have to let go of the past and look towards the future. UO isn't going to suddenly become less than it was because of the EC (or any new client), its only going to get better.

 

[kelmo]

Nostalgia is what will end this game.

 

[Tanivar]

Ideally, the CC users would be pushing just as hard for the high resolution update and a better EC as the EC users have been pushing, because all of us are in this together - if something isn't done to bring in new players, UO will run out of time.

The hi-rez update to the EC will just be giving the pixel-crack fans something they will still complain & moan about until it's all as state of art as the graphics in the Avatar movie. Heck likely they will demand better.

What they need to do is scrap the EC and make a new client that matches the CC in appearance, function, and most importantly, quality. I imagine the EC is seeing so little additional work because they realize it's just not going over to well with most of the customers. Toss in a few EC features which are popular with switches to turn them on or off as preferred, and add in much of what Pinco has added with on/off switches as well, and they might have a decent UI.

Doing what the EC crowd wants, and tossing out what works well to force everyone to use what doesn't work well, is not going to help UO get more players.
It's just going to make many of us leave due to there no longer being a good UI to use to play UO. That kind of drop in paying customers will not make EA's beancounters happy with keeping UO going, even should the games bottom line stay in the black.

 

[Penana Car]

Doing what the EC crowd wants, and tossing out what works well to force everyone to use what doesn't work well, is not going to help UO get more players.
It's just going to make many of us leave due to there no longer being a good UI to use to play UO. That kind of drop in paying customers will not make EA's beancounters happy with keeping UO going, even should the games bottom line stay in the black.

There was nothing wrong with the UI the classic client offered.

What UO's survival boils down to is purpose.

Imagine your friend starts playing Ultima Online, and they ask what the key outcome - key purpose of UO is?

What would your response be?

Mine would be, "You farm things you'll never need, you house decorate and you collect stuff. If you want you can mine or lumberjack, but the crafting is useless. You can imbue items that are better than anything you can craft or loot, so don't bother grinding through the game or any of its content at all. You can insure everything you own and add permanent durability so don't worry about losing anything or having to work for anything. If you pick a tamer you don't ever have to worry about getting good at the game because your severely overpowered pet will do all of the work and then you can truly boast about being the best. If you're interested in PvP I don't even know what to tell you, because it has no purpose anymore, sorry about that."

UO's survival boils down to lack of purpose. There is no purpose in its systems. The client migration issue boils down to giving the devs more resources to add purpose to the game. The game needs an entirely new direction to pick up steam, else it remains on life support, and I agree it won't be long before corporate EA pulls the plug.

By the way I really appreciate your opinions and feedback, this is a great thread.

 

[Tanivar]

'Atta fella. I knew you had a heart! People need to set the bar higher and have better expectations for UO...

We do have the bar set high, the Devs are working towards reaching it with most of the improvments they are talking about. They just keep wasting man-hours trying to salvage the EC though. They need to just toss the thing in the trash and improve the one good UI the game has, the CC. Rewrite it in thier current favorite, easy to use, programming language so it's easy to change & update and build on success, instead of the failure known as the EC.

The CC with the Classic Client download from UOHerald is usable right out of the electronic box and is a good UI.

The EC with the Enhanced Client download from UOHerald is barely usable right out of the electronic box and is not a good UI. Unless you know about and decide to risk downloading a third-partyUI fix.

 

[kelmo]

No. CC is virtually unplayable on modern computers.

 

[Tanivar]

There was nothing wrong with the UI the classic client offered.

Aside from a legal UOAM style map that works well, I agree.

What UO's survival boils down to is purpose.

Imagine your friend starts playing Ultima Online, and they ask what the key outcome - key purpose of UO is?

What would your response be?

The key purpose of UO is to have fun. Usual purpose for most games. It just has a much larger variety of ways to have fun to choose from than most games out there. Depending on your personality type and mood your in when your playing, you'll likely be able to find something entertaining to do.

You sound burned out on UO. I recommend the cure I used. Pay up your account for three months and take a six month break. Just be sure you come back in time. My house was fairly worn when I logged back in. Luckily I had a friend give me a yell via ICQ.

Six months back in a game I spent 14 years playing before straying to Ultima Online did me a world of good. Problem now is the loss of customers for crafting in UO. I suspect D3 had something to do with it though I can't really see what draws people to it other than the graphic pixel-crack. It's just a basic monster-hacker.

 

[Penana Car]

Aside from a legal UOAM style map that works well, I agree.



The key purpose of UO is to have fun. Usual purpose for most games. It just has a much larger variety of ways to have fun to choose from than most games out there. Depending on your personality type and mood your in when your playing, you'll likely be able to find something entertaining to do.

You sound burned out on UO. I recommend the cure I used. Pay up your account for three months and take a six month break. Just be sure you come back in time. My house was fairly worn when I logged back in. Luckily I had a friend give me a yell via ICQ.

Six months back in a game I spent 14 years playing before straying to Ultima Online did me a world of good. Problem now is the loss of customers for crafting in UO. I suspect D3 had something to do with it though I can't really see what draws people to it other than the graphic pixel-crack. It's just a basic monster-hacker.

Diablo 3 doesn't call itself massively mutiplayer. It is a game, point blank. Free to play.

If UO were properly maintained in the first place, people wouldn't feel the need to take breaks.

Too little too late man, the game is dead. Look at the amount of players online per shard. Factor Atlantic out of the equation and it really looks bad.

Flying gargoyles for example were a key sell point. People expected gargoyles and they wound up getting elves with wings, elevated 4 tiles above ground.

I really appreciate your feedback. I read it and I admire your opinion, but there must be other solutions.

 

[Tina Small]

Erm... But the 3rd sentence is something that can be done regardless of the client.

Nostalgia is a bad reason.

Edit: When I was in cooking school in the 90's (before I decided that I couldn't tolerate the Gordon Ramseys of the world) they taught age-old techniques to ensure new chefs had the basics down. Several of the classes prepared food for actual public sale. In one of them, we had to make mayonnaise...from scratch. So, everyone breaks out bowls and whisks. I look at them like they're crazy, since I knew we had to make the equivalent of 2 gallons to supply the entire school. I ask why they were thinking so primitively as I open the cabinet containing the immersion blenders. They/we were taught the basics, but many were so mired in those ruts that they couldn't conceive of using modern tech.

All us vets learned on the CC, but for UO to grow and achieve new things we have to let go of the past and look towards the future. UO isn't going to suddenly become less than it was because of the EC (or any new client), its only going to get better.

I don't disagree with you at all. But is it possible that EA has actually pulled information from our computers to have a good picture of how old or how new most of our computers are and how many accounts are actually being played on old computers? I have to think that number is dwindling every year, whether it's in America, Europe, or Asia and the argument that you keep the CC around so people with older computers can still play becomes less and less valid over time. Unless EA is suddenly planning to start marketing UO in a country where the technology consists mostly of hand-me-down computers from other parts of the world. I can't see that happening either, though.

What exactly are the minimum specifications to be able to run the EC well, without your computer acting like it's on its last legs and ready to croak any second?

 

[Tanivar]

No. CC is virtually unplayable on modern computers.

You referring to using the 800 x 600 game window on a wide screen LCD monitor set at a resolution that displays words in smaller than phonebook sized text?

Set your monitors resolution to something x 768 and you'll have decent sized text and no problem with the CC.

I run a 1920 x 1080 LCD monitor on my AGP video dinosaur desktop and just set it to display at 1360 x 768 resolution so text is decent sized. The 800 x 600 game window works as well on it as it did on my old CRT display that I ran at 1024 x 768. Just gives more screen area to the side for the paperdoll, UOAM, and some open containers. The EC runs well other than my gargoyle tending to hover upright a moment every three tiles as he flies.

My dual core laptop runs the CC very nicely as well. It's about 4 years old. A Dell Latitude.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

If the UI of the Classic Client is the "one good UI", then why does (nearly) everyone who uses the CC use external programs such as UOA and UOAM/Carto/etc?

You may be more familiar with the CC UI, but in terms of functionality and power, the EC UI at its base wins hands down. Once you start adding in player created UI mods (which are internal once installed, not external like UOA), that power only multiplies.

 

[Flutter]

Nostalgia is what will end this game.

Nostalgia is the name of my spellweaving mage.

 

[Tanivar]

What exactly are the minimum specifications to be able to run the EC well, without your computer acting like it's on its last legs and ready to croak any second?

Other than a flying gargoyle tending to shift upright every third tile when flying many places my old dinosaur desktop runs it well. It's what I typically use to play UO since it has a large wide screen LCD display.

Pentium 4 2.6 ghz processor
2000 or 2001 era AGP motherboard
2 gigs DDR memory
ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series AGP video card (512k or 1 gig memory)
HP S2331 Monitor

Old I admit, but it did everything I want it to do up until the last Adobe Flash Player update. Now Hulu movies are unwatchable. The video starts & stops and the video & audio are out of sync. Now I watch those on my much newer laptop.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

In the CC it is because the UI files are completely internal, thus you're changing the same files that are used in the game window/world itself.

In the EC it is legal and supported for players to modify the files in the User Interface folder and create their own UI themes and systems. This has been 100% legal since the Kingdom Reborn client and is one of the "selling points" of the newer client(s). The entire reason the UI in the EC was created in LUA/XML was to allow players with the abilities to recreate the UI. I was part of the team that created the Modder's Exchange site and developed several UI themes (Copper, Stone, and Third Dawn Pinco's). When we started the site, I contacted Jeremy (the Community Coordinator at the time) to make sure we had oversight and that none of our modifications crossed the boundaries into exploits. To my knowledge, no KR/EC modder has received any form of cease and desist/remove this feature message to date and the devs have even seen player mods in use.

 

[Tanivar]

...

If the UI of the Classic Client is the "one good UI", then why does (nearly) everyone who uses the CC use external programs such as UOA and UOAM/Carto/etc?

You may be more familiar with the CC UI, but in terms of functionality and power, the EC UI at its base wins hands down. Once you start adding in player created UI mods (which are internal once installed, not external like UOA), that power only multiplies.

At it's base, without Pinco's Mod, the EC isn't even close to a good UI. The features you mention are nice, but a few sparklies in a tossed together mess like the EC doesn't work magic and turn it into a good UI.

 

[Triberius]

Me I'm in favor of ditching the classic client but having a graphics "toggle" so people who prefer the CC graphics can keep them. I would lower some of the overhead in maintenance, except the initial alteration of the client to support both graphics sets, but in the long run it becomes more an issue of graphics than anything instead trying to quash UI Bugs in 2 clients. I think that CC fans could learn to enjoy the UI of the EC with the old style graphics, better hotbar systems, much of the functionality of UOAssist is built in as far as counters etc., and that oh so sought after larger play window.

 

[Woodsman]

As for the dwindling sub. numbers. I blame that on 3 things.
1. When was the last time you saw any ads for UO?
2. It is extremely hard to start this game from scratch.
3. 3 kinda ties in to 2. The economy!!!!!

#1 UO gets a lot of publicity - it's mentioned on a weekly basis by the MMORPG websites. While #2 affects players once they get inside, and while #3 may affect the existing playerbase, neither affects initially attracting new players. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a shame that the improved new player stuff was scrapped last year, and I think player retention is important, but you have to get those players to take a look at UO in the first place.

There is the problem that UO is 15 years old, looks it, and in that 15 years, there have been dozens of MMORPGs that have come out offering things that UO doesn't. That's not a slam against UO, the majority of MMORPG players, we're talking over 10 million people, have made it known they don't care for sandbox-type MMORPGs, and people have different tastes. When Ultima was a huge franchise as a single player game, there was Might and Magic, there was Wizardry, there were a bunch of Dungeons and Dragons games. When UO started, there were no space-based MMORPGS, there were no theme park MMORPGs.

Going back to the 15 years old thing, UO has a lot of history, has a lot of content thanks to those 15 years, but UO's ultimate problem at this point is still getting those new players to take a look at UO.

 

[Woodsman]

Not that they have the funds, but there needs to be a third option that both are horribly archaic and outdated and need replaced by a functioning 3d client that has a decent UI (which does not necessitate a player made one) and decent graphics. It can remain isometric, if it must.

Both clients are tragically lacking. I am appalled that both sides fight... hm, I mean discuss so loudly and fervently.

The EC is based on the same engine that powers RIFT and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion as well as Warhammer Online and Dark Age of Camelot. It's actually a decent client that could be built upon. As far as the UI, I agree completely, I still think Pinco should have been hired to work on the UI and offering people options. I would love for somebody to do a CC-based UI for the EC. People expect a good UI out of the box, and they expect

I don't like the fighting either, because as I said, ultimately, we are all in this together - if UO doesn't attract new players, instead of arguing over clients, we'll be arguing over which freeshards to play when UO close. I'd like to see them keep both clients and get the high resolution CC graphics update for the EC that they were working on finished. If they do it right and offered a CC UI for the EC, and the EC was better, a lot of people would switch clients.

 

[Triberius]

At it's base, without Pinco's Mod, the EC isn't even close to a good UI. The features you mention are nice, but a few sparklies in a tossed together mess like the EC doesn't work magic and turn it into a good UI.

I'll have to disagree here. The EC with it's base UI gives more functionality than the CC does. Pinco's UI expands on that true, but it's the EC's UI that is still the core. It's the frame work that all the UI mods are built on, and will always be that way. Modding in every game that allows UI mods is the same, each UI mod either changes thing aesthetically, or adds minor things technically. Pinco gives us additional tool tips and some built in Macros, but none of this would have been possible if the framework wasn't already laid down by the stock UI.

Look at it like Firefox, the base browser is functional, it works and works just fine. You just don't get the most out of it until you begin slapping some Add-ons into the mix.

 

[Lady Storm]

For years I have heard you all chant "we want a Classic Shard" .... am I wrong?? Well baby the CC is as classic as you get. Yes we have uoam and uoassist ..I agree they are not true pieces of uo, but for over 14 years we have had them work just fine. There was no 3d....in 97 the Classic shard you all clammored for would have no EC.

Look if you read that chat boxes below the Mesanna article Tina gives, they point to the real reasons why we are a bit short of people.
People love UO... and the but starts now.........................
"careBear" land
AoS
Changes
Well they didnt ask for many now did they?? yes they sure did. The dev team at the time had the $$ to work with and EA's blessing too. I wish I had the power to pull up every one of your posts for change and rants of want of such.... memory is a fragle thing.... It only serves us when we are right and not so if we turn out wrong.

Before we got Trammel I remember the 4 major waffles we players had:
1 House space
2 More house space and more room for bigger houses. (yes I put it in twice, it was all i heard when homes came up in convo, you would not beleave how many coveted my castle)
3 Safe zone from reds and pks
4 safe zone from thiefs

Players liked fel... we just wanted more land for homes and a way to keep the local rifraf out of our hair. 99% of us knew and lived with reds and pks heck i have books set for escape still from my fel mining days I blame the Dev of that era for the wide expance of change and the stupid hiring of McFarland. That in my opinion was a big waste of $$$ ever! millions for his art pfft! my god daughter at 3 did better art!
After reading their posts on that article about how much they liked UO made me wonder.... the "carebear " land was not a bad intro.. all it did was take the danger out of banking. What did do in Fel as the final straw was Luna.... which also killed Brit bank as the major hangout of players.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

What UO's survival boils down to is purpose.
Imagine your friend starts playing Ultima Online, and they ask what the key outcome - key purpose of UO is?
What would your response be?

As someone mentioned earlier, it's not the art, not about purpose, it's all about CONTENT.
DnD, enormously popular, Zero art - Purpose, make it thru the dungeon (Quest), then it's over.
A good game master doesn't even use those mini-dungeon things, and thinks up his own content and situations for you to play in -
never-ending purpose = content, so you you can keep playing continuously, for years - hmm, kinda like UO - exc UO has graphics, way cooler

 

[Woodsman]

UO's survival boils down to lack of purpose. There is no purpose in its systems. The client migration issue boils down to giving the devs more resources to add purpose to the game. The game needs an entirely new direction to pick up steam, else it remains on life support, and I agree it won't be long before corporate EA pulls the plug.

UO is a sandbox, or at least was. Trying to shoehorn in a purpose for players is putting us on the road to a themepark MMORPG like WOW where we start feeling like we have to do a check-list of things to succeed.

The best times I've had is when I'm sitting around talking to other people or doing crazy stuff that serves no purpose.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

This thread is better off deleted. All the CC/not-CC threads are. This is just another veiled attempt to try and kill another alternative client and we don't need it. Every argument for/against it has already been made a million times already. Just put it in spiels and rants or quarantine it in it's own special forum or something.

 

[Penana Car]

This thread is better off deleted. All the CC/not-CC threads are. This is just another veiled attempt to try and kill another alternative client and we don't need it. Every argument for/against it has already been made a million times already. Just put it in spiels and rants or quarantine it in it's own special forum or something.

I feel the people that take interest in Ultima and the Ultima Franchise have a right to voice their opinions and be heard, thanks.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

I feel the people that take interest in Ultima and the Ultima Franchise have a right to voice their opinions and be heard, thanks.

And almost everyone has voiced their opinion on this topic already.

I mean do you even still play? Or was your post just an attempt to ferment more bitterness on the forum given your thread title suggests that too many resources are being consumed and one client has to go? There is actually a name for that use of words you know.

This thread isn't going anywhere except downhill.

 

[Penana Car]

And almost everyone has voiced their opinion on this topic already.

I mean do you even still play? Or was your post just an attempt to ferment more bitterness on the forum given your thread title suggests that too many resources are being consumed and one client has to go? There is actually a name for that use of words you know.

This thread isn't going anywhere except downhill.

I donno whatchu talkin' bout but you better take the bass out of your voice before you step up on me like that. You're bordering personal. I appreciate everybody's opinion including your own but to come to Petra's crib to try and hijack my thread simply ain't right. Step off my grill.

Perhaps there are parallels between this thread and the game, it is going downhill. Without a breath of fresh air there wil be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish. Sosaria will fall into the oblivion and - God forbid, so too will Ilshenar, Ter Mur, Malas and the Tokuno Islands.

My threads are about generating interest - generating good ideas and soliciting good feedback on a forum that is supposed to be welcoming to all of these things. If my feedback isn't what you want to read, then don't read it and certainly don't confront it like it's some forbidden ideology.

I don't believe EA is resourceful enough to slant things in the right direction "uphill" - you are right. There was once a time when the development team was large enough to make a HUGE presence here on Stratics and be the ones soliciting the feedback, but now we have nothing but a few promotions and "the next patch is".

Thank you for your opinion.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

It is ok to have both for now, it's not like they have to take one away right now.. Talking about this gets you to think about what would be good to have and what would not. I like to hear others and try to see things the same way.. I can not agree with some things but it makes me think of new and different things. The game is still the best and what the EC has done for me is alot more then anything has so far. The random loot would be the next great thing. UO has stages, it has made alot of changes and it is still the best because it can still grow faster then the rest.

UO has everything all the other games try to put in but can never do it. That is something to think about. Maybe it's best the path we have taken so we can learn what we need to know.

The old places being made new that is a good thing also it just seems to slow. The game needs more things to over come what it has lost but it is far from less. They can get this done with just some basics. Alot of what we have now is pretty good. I think it's better than most games. It is for me about the UI mainly cause I just did all our chars over again. Every time I do a new macro set it makes the game better, without, I could not play UO. I do not want to have to play with the old 2d look, I was hoping for new stuff with lots of affects and sounds. I could live with the old look but it feels like it lost alot of feeling for me when KR was taken out.

I was hunting and zoomed in and saw all the lights, shadows, sounds, things were all new... It was like I was dreaming. UO I think is the only game that could do that.. others come close when you feel like something is going to jump out at you. UO has all types of feelings tho.. It is because you can do so much you can go deep into the places and then you can go home and sleep..

You can go work Smithing or go out to fish. You can go alone or you can go with others. It is not so much the freedom for me as it is the idea I can do so much. It's the feeling I get and the EC for me adds to that.

The new art is great. I am happy something will look good, it gives me hope. I have alot of faith in the Dev Team. I am sure they will pull it all together.

 

[Penana Car]

It is ok to have both for now, it's not like they have to take one away right now.. Talking about this gets you to think about what would be good to have and what would not. I like to hear others and try to see things the same way.. I can not agree with some things but it makes me think of new and different things. The game is still the best and what the EC has done for me is alot more then anything has so far. The random loot would be the next great thing. UO has stages, it has made alot of changes and it is still the best because it can still grow faster then the rest.

UO has everything all the other games try to put in but can never do it. That is something to think about. Maybe it's best the path we have taken so we can learn what we need to know.

The old places being made new that is a good thing also it just seems to slow. The game needs more things to over come what it has lost but it is far from less. They can get this done with just some basics. Alot of what we have now is pretty good. I think it's better than most games. It is for me about the UI mainly cause I just did all our chars over again. Every time I do a new macro set it makes the game better, without, I could not play UO. I do not want to have to play with the old 2d look, I was hoping for new stuff with lots of affects and sounds. I could live with the old look but it feels like it lost alot of feeling for me when KR was taken out.

I was hunting and zoomed in and saw all the lights, shadows, sounds, things were all new... It was like I was dreaming. UO I think is the only game that could do that.. others come close when you feel like something is going to jump out at you. UO has all types of feelings tho.. It is because you can do so much you can go deep into the places and then you can go home and sleep..

You can go work Smithing or go out to fish. You can go alone or you can go with others. It is not so much the freedom for me as it is the idea I can do so much. It's the feeling I get and the EC for me adds to that.

The new art is great. I am happy something will look good, it gives me hope. I have alot of faith in the Dev Team. I am sure they will pull it all together.

Great post, you have specified your reasoning to support both clients and you have added reasonable substance to support your reasoning. I appreciate that. Thank you.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

I donno whatchu talkin' bout but you better take the bass out of your voice before you step up on me like that. You're bordering personal. I appreciate everybody's opinion including your own but to come to Petra's crib to try and hijack my thread simply ain't right. Step off my grill.

You can call it personal, but I am calling you out. I don't know who you are, but I have seen these threads a hundred times before, all the way back to Third Dawn. I've seen them worded in obviously troll-like ways and I have seen them wrapped up as a vehicle for debate, yet the words used by the people who make them always give them away.

My threads are about generating interest - generating good ideas and soliciting good feedback

These threads don't generate interest, they generate conflict and always have done. They are not good for the community and I think these threads should be removed or moved on sight.

 

[Penana Car]

You can call it personal, but I am calling you out. I don't know who you are, but I have seen these threads a hundred times before, all the way back to Third Dawn. I've seen them worded in obviously troll-like ways and I have seen them wrapped up as a vehicle for debate, yet the words used by the people who make them always give them away.



These threads don't generate interest, they generate conflict and always have done. They are not good for the community and I think these threads should be removed or moved on sight.

"She's a lot like the millions of others who stood in line to make their voice heard in this election except for one thing – Ann Nixon Cooper is 106 years old. At a time when women's voices were silenced and their hopes dismissed, she lived to see them stand up and speak out and reach for the ballot. Yes we can." - President Barrack Obama

Don't limit my freedom of expression. That is personal. I'm following the forum rules. Now if you have a problem with my thread bring it to private messaging instead of try to get it locked. Who is trolling who? This is a community forum, not your forum, a community with diverse opinion.

Back on topic about the 2 clients please.

 

[Woodsman]

We should be having threads about what it's going to take to convince EA to try and pull in new players, because none of these threads will matter if something isn't done.

The things that could be done to attract and keep new players are either canceled (updated new player experience, new quest system), or delayed (graphics update). At this point I don't care about anniversary or holiday gifts or vet rewards, I care about UO itself. I've got something like 25 vet rewards that I haven't even claimed between my accounts, I've got chests and bank boxes full of anniversary and holiday gifts. I'd trade them all in for a lot more players.

And before anybody asks, I refuse to move to Atlantic, that does nothing other than help kill off other shards.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

 

[DJAd]

And before anybody asks, I refuse to move to Atlantic, that does nothing other than help kill off other shards.

What shard has been killed due to people moving to Atlantic?

 

[Woodsman]

What shard has been killed due to people moving to Atlantic?

I'm just saying I'm not going to contribute to the decline of the shards I prefer by moving to Atlantic, because in the end that's not a solution, it's just avoiding the problem for a while longer.

 

[Tina Small]

Might Penana Car = allie_oops?

 

[The Zog historian]

The majority of players presently play the original (2D) client. Whereas the enhanced client is used by some, mostly for casualties such as bank sitting and stocking vendor houses. In my opinion it is simply too ugly to enjoy full time. I was a Third Dawn beta tester (wrote a well published article about it at the time, in fact) and I've had my fair share of experience on the "enhanced client". The graphics in the 2D client are quite simply better, more fluent, and avatars/creatures don't simply look like sliders that run on the spot. In 2D everything from wearables to the trees look like they belong. The EC was just a poor overhaul of what already existed, when they could've enhanced the classic experience.

I refused to try the KR client just because of the hideous paperdolls. When I first tried the EC, looking at my mounted character reminded me of someone's photo, of her teenage boy starting to slide down the family cow's side after attempting to ride it. My machine is no slouch, and I can keep up in a race, yet the EC feels choppy.

 

[Madrid]

I'll take Kingdom Reborn hands down over any client in UOs history. Blows the EC and CC out of the water from an art perspective.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

KR's environment art, CC's item art (for now), EC's paperdolls (with promise of improvements), mobs and UI improvements + Pinco's UI would be better than the hot mess we have now.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

KR's environment art, CC's item art (for now), EC's paperdolls (with promise of improvements), mobs and UI improvements + Pinco's UI would be better than the hot mess we have now.

Add in KR's higher resolution to that as well, and I hope "environment art" includes plants and building tilesets.

And yes, a toggle to display in CC/2D mode for those that prefer it.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Add in KR's higher resolution to that as well, and I hope "environment art" includes plants and building tilesets.

Yeah, environment art to me is the plants, trees, house tile sets, etc. The "upgraded" terrain art from the EC should be included too. Everything should be at the high-resolution.

The CC's item art would most likely look atrocious, but KR's items were fracking hideous in most cases (I couldn't even tell what a pitcher of water was) but then they can start redoing those items in batches with each publish.

And yes, a toggle to display in CC/2D mode for those that prefer it.

Wouldn't that be the EC as it is now, or do you mean the sprite animations too? If they did that, they'd have to lock the resolution at 800x600 or so, making most things super tiny.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Wouldn't that be the EC as it is now, or do you mean the sprite animations too? If they did that, they'd have to lock the resolution at 800x600 or so, making most things super tiny.

The CC toggle in my mind would do exactly that... use the entire 2d artset (items, terrain, models, etc) instead of the EC artset would lock the zoom feature at the 1:1 level and restrict the gameplay window to 800x600.

The EC toggle portion would unlock all of those features, use the EC artset and particle effects, and unlock further graphical scale settings that you see used in most current games to scale the game to the hardware used.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

The CC toggle in my mind would do exactly that... use the entire 2d artset (items, terrain, models, etc) instead of the EC artset would lock the zoom feature at the 1:1 level and restrict the gameplay window to 800x600.

The EC toggle portion would unlock all of those features, use the EC artset and particle effects, and unlock further graphical scale settings that you see used in most current games to scale the game to the hardware used.

I would support this. It might mean a little extra work to keep the schemas separate, but likely far less than it does supporting two clients.
If this occured, and the hi-res update does not (looking less and less likely), then I'd definately want KR's world art to be the EC default.

 

[Tanivar]

You EC folks seem to be incapable of realizing that the EC's basic problem is it's not a good UI! Does the bad graphic display of the EC do something to your minds like some displays are reported to cause epileptic seizures and behavior problems in people who view them? Your minds seem only able to think 'graphics... graphics... graphics... yes... yes... graphics....' filtering out everything else that is said concerning why many stay with the CC instead of changing to the EC. Gods, you people have gotten really spooky.