R
RichDC
Guest
Typical!!
Now i gta wait until i get home and watch it!!!
Now i gta wait until i get home and watch it!!!
-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
PvP Tamers are Overpowered
- Thread starter drinkbeerallday
- Start date
- Watchers 2
L
LIL DON
Guest
With the tranny scrolls cant you make a 120 tamer in 5 mins if the moons align and you happen to find 35 or 40 1 point taming trannys and a advanced char token or 2 +15 jewels and a BoB tali with advanced char?
T
Turdnugget
Guest
Good luck getting a tamer up with SoT scrolls...With the rate they spawn and the vast number of skills that spawn on those scrolls... you would literally have to go to every shard and buy everyone's taming SoT... even then you could come up short.
The non-tamer template I prefer to take out tamers w/GD or DM is my bushido/swords chr.
Killed a tamer with his GD just the other day... wasn't too bad. Put up evasion, go in with Nerve Strike, LS a couple times and he's dead. With the amount of DCI/Parry/Bushido/Evasion the GD barely scratched me and the tamer was dead within seconds.
It's called tactics.
On my shard my guild spawns a lot. A couple nights ago we had to large battles at the Khaldun spawn. First time in a long time it's been so PvP crazy... There were probably 4 or so GD's... why? Because we were spawning. We got raided by 3 differen't guilds/factions. It got crazy... they only had one GD on their side.
On my shard most of the PvP guilds run with mages/dexers because there's a good number of them who cheat in one way or another. The majority of them don't have tamers outside of Yew combat. It's too hard for them to speed around trying to lug a pet behind them.
A group of well played mages/dexers can take out a group of half tamers/mages/dexers if they know what to do.
Most tamers don't have resist. Paralyze is easy. In field combat, especially spawns you've always got to deal with all sorts of fields... paralyze,fire,poison, energy etc...A tamer has a number of targets to choose from if it's a good raid. On top of that, the pet can get targeted by spawn and will go kill it, meanwhile the tamer has to keep spouting commands. If the tamer doesn't have sufficient taming/lore eventually the pet will get angry and lose loyalty.
I think the biggest issue is Yew PvP... and that's not really PvP. That's just one big gank fest.
On my shard do I rarely see a large number of PvP tamers running around ganking people. On my shard most prefer either a necro/mage or a dexer of some sort.
There are a couple running a mage/tamer riding a dreadmare...and some of the scripts they run are laaaaaaaaaaaame. Talk about a kick in the arse when they curse, dismount, bola, all kill, teleport with you, FS, dead. All in a matter of seconds. I think dreadmares are worse than GD's.
The non-tamer template I prefer to take out tamers w/GD or DM is my bushido/swords chr.
Killed a tamer with his GD just the other day... wasn't too bad. Put up evasion, go in with Nerve Strike, LS a couple times and he's dead. With the amount of DCI/Parry/Bushido/Evasion the GD barely scratched me and the tamer was dead within seconds.
It's called tactics.
On my shard my guild spawns a lot. A couple nights ago we had to large battles at the Khaldun spawn. First time in a long time it's been so PvP crazy... There were probably 4 or so GD's... why? Because we were spawning. We got raided by 3 differen't guilds/factions. It got crazy... they only had one GD on their side.
On my shard most of the PvP guilds run with mages/dexers because there's a good number of them who cheat in one way or another. The majority of them don't have tamers outside of Yew combat. It's too hard for them to speed around trying to lug a pet behind them.
A group of well played mages/dexers can take out a group of half tamers/mages/dexers if they know what to do.
Most tamers don't have resist. Paralyze is easy. In field combat, especially spawns you've always got to deal with all sorts of fields... paralyze,fire,poison, energy etc...A tamer has a number of targets to choose from if it's a good raid. On top of that, the pet can get targeted by spawn and will go kill it, meanwhile the tamer has to keep spouting commands. If the tamer doesn't have sufficient taming/lore eventually the pet will get angry and lose loyalty.
I think the biggest issue is Yew PvP... and that's not really PvP. That's just one big gank fest.
On my shard do I rarely see a large number of PvP tamers running around ganking people. On my shard most prefer either a necro/mage or a dexer of some sort.
There are a couple running a mage/tamer riding a dreadmare...and some of the scripts they run are laaaaaaaaaaaame. Talk about a kick in the arse when they curse, dismount, bola, all kill, teleport with you, FS, dead. All in a matter of seconds. I think dreadmares are worse than GD's.
Y
Yalp
Guest
looks like a good mix of all kinds of templates. and a lot of fun!
L
LIL DON
Guest
This is atm true but how long till they are as common as a a 25 stat scroll. It porbably will be a while but it will happen. In the meantime they can wear their 1/3 casting 15 taming braclet and their 1/2 shield and their 15 taming ring and a BoB tali and have 115 taming o crap i forgot the mark of travesty that puts them past 120 on their newly created tamer with advanced char token. the rest of the skills are easy to gm+.
Other than being a bizarre social analysis of class warfare within the Ultima microcosm....
do you have a point?
I didn't see you say that they were balanced.... just that they and other classes have a rivalry. That's not really relevant.
I see 5 dragons and a few necros stopped a full push of 10+ players (and instantly killed most of them. That's about it.
I reported 3 scripters running simultaneously in the Jhelom pits today if that tells you something about training methods. Where gold won't cover it, scripting can help!
Wenchy
T
thechoppa
Guest
You are so biased. Reading you makes me sick.
As for War Ultima, true that, 10+ of the most skilled, best geared, all using pots and whatever exist in this game to stay alive. Their GM was the gm of possibly the most dominant guild to ever play UO: SX. You see their dead red name jump one after the other in the left corner, from the GD's and couple of necros (necro tamers for most). I beleive there are only 4 GD's though. I could be wrong.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
My point is there is no such thing as balance in a multi skill game. The only way and I mean the only way to achieve balance is to make every skill follow a calculated, mathematicaly chess game . No player can have better armor than the next no player can have better skills than the next no player can have better weapons than the next. All skills have the same abilities as the other skills. Stick figure against stick figure using mathematical calculations or chess like movement in a grid type game. Then and only then can balance be achieved.Other than being a bizarre social analysis of class warfare within the Ultima microcosm....
do you have a point?
I didn't see you say that they were balanced.... just that they and other classes have a rivalry. That's not really relevant.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
I Believe to be true all those that are against gd are on siege as there is a difference there. They must be cause if you can't beat a gd and it's tamer on a production shard then youre skills are not what you think they are.
But there IS balance in UO.
As long as one of your skills is taming.
Other than that, you can mix and match.
Seriously, UOKaiser, it's amazing how much you wind up arguing the wrong side of a given topic. Whatever's easy and cheesy and hurts some type of game balance (economy, pvp, whatever) there you are saying nope there's no problem here, and even if you try to fix it you can't so give up all hope ye who enter here.
Y
Yalp
Guest
Hmm... I have pointed out that the facts don't correlate to the hysteria on threads themed such as this.. On MY shard, tamers with greater dragons (or ANY pet for that matter), DO NOT rule pvp. They are few in number and last a very short time. It is very hard for anyone who has not drunk the nerf kool-aid to see the issue, let alone buy into the nerf mentality.
But it's a free country, you're welcome to avoid actually having an adult discussion about the facts.
If tamers/pets are so balanced why are devs considering nerfing them?
We hear about omen mage cries too but we don't hear dev commenting on how they should be nerfed. You might aruge that its all due to pet nerf outcrys but seriously face it, people don't die to a solo mage casting omen para instantly from 3 screens away(in fact in most real pvp area you don't even have the 3 screens to run). Saying current pet power is balance is exactly like saying WoD AI instant archer is balanced. You are essentially doing the samething they USED to do. They cried just like you when dev commented a nerf is coming but did that change anything?
It might take awhile but overpower ******** designs are all bonded to be nerfed. Face it, even the dev used the exact term "nerf".
Are you going to argue with the devs now?
Also your false comment on the video on pure GD pwnage already showed how biased you are. Or you really failed to see a small group of players w/GDs instantly wiped a huge pvp guild? Do you know what those two guilds are? Go tell them how they are completely lacking in player skill that caused them the wipe.
You said you wanted an adult like conversation, yet you are the childish one. You didn't even comment on the video(the obvious) with any truthful insight.
You said you wanted an adult like conversation, yet you are the childish one. You didn't even comment on the video(the obvious) with any truthful insight.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Im commenting from my experience. In production shards and i am a mediocre pvp I take down tamers with there gd without much trouble using either my necro mage, sword dexter,archer and my treasure hunter. If I can do this in regular shards 8 out of 10 times with me being mediocre I can't see them being a problem. Either all I cross are extrem noobs and can't work there dragons or Im much better than i think. Either way they are weaker to me and easier for me to dispatch than other necro mages or dexters. I just don't see it on production. Though I log in on siege and it's a whole different ballgame. I could barely scratch a tamer on siege im dead in no time flat. But I expect that there just 2 different type of shards where I can't wear elite armor because it's siege.But there IS balance in UO.
As long as one of your skills is taming.
Other than that, you can mix and match.
Seriously, UOKaiser, it's amazing how much you wind up arguing the wrong side of a given topic. Whatever's easy and cheesy and hurts some type of game balance (economy, pvp, whatever) there you are saying nope there's no problem here, and even if you try to fix it you can't so give up all hope ye who enter here.
I pride myself on playing every single template and doing everything in game from craftmenship to merchant to pvm to pvp to rares hunter. No matter what happens it will effect me. In this area I don't have a pvp tamer but they just not strong enough in production shards to be considered overpowered.
Well your anecdote has a lot of subjectives in it. You say you're mediocre. And we just assume you were against relatively competent tamers with trained up pets. If you're actually quite good, and/or fought mediocre or bad or new PvP tamers, *Shrug.* However I think a general perception in both PvM and PvP is that a non-taming build has to be VERY good to outperform even a so-so tamer. In fact, for a lot of things you probably can't, especially in the PvM department where no other build can essentially have a tank and then still pretty much be a fully capable caster or archer or whatever in their own right. Without also being a tamer, that is.
I think WOW's solution is a bit interesting---- hunters (same idea as tamer) can kill mobs or players with their pets, but don't get as much benefit or even can't loot the monster corpse if the pet did most of the damage.
I think WOW's solution is a bit interesting---- hunters (same idea as tamer) can kill mobs or players with their pets, but don't get as much benefit or even can't loot the monster corpse if the pet did most of the damage.
Y
Yalp
Guest
I saw more peeps on mounts then I saw greaters *4 greaters plus ww and mare. I saw dead greaters on the ground too during the course of the video. I saw more necro's than I saw greaters (at least 6) I saw those on mounts move through bag balls and crates blocking the teleporter. I also saw you cure from greater poisons in the blink of eye, but I was gonna leave that part out. I'd expect if the 4 greaters could take out 10+ non -tamer templates, then the fight would be over and there would be nothing left to show us. Since as soon as 1 of them rezzed.. the 4 dragons would put him down again. But that is not the case in those videos.
What I saw is peeps who were taken down by greaters change their tactics and have success against some of the dragons. Yes.. dragons killed some players. And yet, YES some players killed some dragons. Hmmm.. wonder how that could be?
--- since it was a harrower, and killing it as fast as you can and getting out is always a good strategy, I suspect the tamers and greaters were there in larger numbers than normal pvp.
Y
Yalp
Guest
like many actions from the devs over the years.. a knee-jerk reaction. I hope to present the other side of the coin for their review and consideration..
Y
Yalp
Guest
In my experience.. I don't think thats a general perception.
T
thechoppa
Guest
The defending group had 5 tamers 3 none tamers. The none tamers were told to summon deamons: 3 deamons
1 greater died, he was killed by the other teams greater
The defending team had 3 necros and 3 necro tamers
I was not part of that fight, how could you see me cure? And do you know that cure pots cures poison in a blink of an eye? Didn't think so, cause you seem to know jack sh..t about pvp, especially with stupid, biased, incompetent comments you make about that fight.
No, because they rezzed on level two hyloth, and the defending team stayed on the third level after the first push. On the second push, they went up and the designated rezzer had to run away in bake form to survive.
There has been one dragon down, and 24 deaths in the attacking guild. What can I say? Shut up? You are an annoying idiot trying to prevent your annoying overpowered template to be put into balance? I don't know. I'd like to stay polite but your lack of intergrety and search for the truth really gets at me.
No, just...shut up, common shut up if you don't know about what you are talking.
M
mr.blackmage
Guest
When AoS first came out, I aquired a friends account as he quit. It had my red pure scribe mage, a dexer (half worked) and a pvm tamer. I tried pvping as 2/4 for awhile on the mage, and did quite well, but with adrenaline going at full speed for 50% of the pvpers during this time frame, I could never get killing blows. So, I played on this tamer with 30 wrestling, gm mage/med/eval and 110 tame/anat. I then proceeded to slaughter every 5/6 mage that I came up against, dying very infrequently. Now, this was my first time playing a tamer, and I was using a white wyrm. Since I knew how to play a mage (I was the first, or one of the first, who knows, to figure out how to counter cast under the new system), I dropped so many people, even with my extremely limited template.
Fast forward to today. Tamers have not been lessened in power since AoS was released, new skills have been added, and most things have been nerfed (that were consider to be "OP" with the release of AoS).
Since AoS, there have been a few templates that I have almost zero chance of killing, due to me playing a wrestle scribe mage template. Since I have gone on these templates and been able to slaughter, (literally slaughter, as in my opponents have a zero% chance of winning) anyone that I came up against.... That's when I can draw my conclusion that something is overpowered. A lot of people don't seem to get the fact that if someone is a good pvper and not just playing a flavour of the month to get kills, that they can adapt to play ANY template, and they put people that are playing the "gimp" template to shame.
Unfortunately, due to these templates existing for years, there aren't really many "good" pvpers that remain. Hundreds of "top tier" (or as close as you can get) have quit due to a RNG giving a person an instant kill. On one of my many returns (just hoping that PvP has improved), I got all killed and was dead within a quarter of a second. As a pure mage, my max for burst damage, assuming I am not attacked at all, is around 100 damage in 5 seconds. I got hit with 140 in 1/4 of a second. That is over 20x the damage output that I can do, yet people are thinking that this is balanced, simply because it is a NPC?
here's a tip. Archery in its current form is dumb. Pets in there current form are dumb (although actually implementing rules for pets would go a huge distance to rectifying this). Necro with faster casting is dumb. The change to casting regarding rubberbanding was dumb. Not banning for breaking game rules is dumb. The change to specials, while a good idea, made wrestling almost completely useless besides as a purely defensive skill, which was dumb. Considering how much casting a pure mage has to do in order to simply survive let alone drop an opponent in addition to surviving, swinging once every 3 seconds with about a 35% chance to hit an opponent (and assuming im TRYING to get next to the dexer or archer attacking me), and being unable to cast while I try to get a special off, is dumb. There have been many additions to this game, and every now and then I get my hopes up that maybe something is being done to produce some balanced PvP once again.
Rock paper scissors is not balance. Whoever said that it is is ******** (no offense, I mean it lightly). PvP in UO WAS more like chess, in that you have moves and counter moves... That was the beauty of the system, it actually involved thought process and strategy to drop an opponent, not a simply repetition of "if the rng rolls my way this will instant drop someone" combo.
Bottom line, templates have to be hybrids now to be effective in PvP. This was never the intended case, yet here we are today. If PvP was balanced, then so many people would come back to this game, SO MANY. But instead, we have people from trammie spawner guilds (no offense to anyone, but that is the case on LS at least) who can instant kill people that were widely considered to be a top pvper. If anyone thinks that is right, then you should be playing a FPS.
Fast forward to today. Tamers have not been lessened in power since AoS was released, new skills have been added, and most things have been nerfed (that were consider to be "OP" with the release of AoS).
Since AoS, there have been a few templates that I have almost zero chance of killing, due to me playing a wrestle scribe mage template. Since I have gone on these templates and been able to slaughter, (literally slaughter, as in my opponents have a zero% chance of winning) anyone that I came up against.... That's when I can draw my conclusion that something is overpowered. A lot of people don't seem to get the fact that if someone is a good pvper and not just playing a flavour of the month to get kills, that they can adapt to play ANY template, and they put people that are playing the "gimp" template to shame.
Unfortunately, due to these templates existing for years, there aren't really many "good" pvpers that remain. Hundreds of "top tier" (or as close as you can get) have quit due to a RNG giving a person an instant kill. On one of my many returns (just hoping that PvP has improved), I got all killed and was dead within a quarter of a second. As a pure mage, my max for burst damage, assuming I am not attacked at all, is around 100 damage in 5 seconds. I got hit with 140 in 1/4 of a second. That is over 20x the damage output that I can do, yet people are thinking that this is balanced, simply because it is a NPC?
here's a tip. Archery in its current form is dumb. Pets in there current form are dumb (although actually implementing rules for pets would go a huge distance to rectifying this). Necro with faster casting is dumb. The change to casting regarding rubberbanding was dumb. Not banning for breaking game rules is dumb. The change to specials, while a good idea, made wrestling almost completely useless besides as a purely defensive skill, which was dumb. Considering how much casting a pure mage has to do in order to simply survive let alone drop an opponent in addition to surviving, swinging once every 3 seconds with about a 35% chance to hit an opponent (and assuming im TRYING to get next to the dexer or archer attacking me), and being unable to cast while I try to get a special off, is dumb. There have been many additions to this game, and every now and then I get my hopes up that maybe something is being done to produce some balanced PvP once again.
Rock paper scissors is not balance. Whoever said that it is is ******** (no offense, I mean it lightly). PvP in UO WAS more like chess, in that you have moves and counter moves... That was the beauty of the system, it actually involved thought process and strategy to drop an opponent, not a simply repetition of "if the rng rolls my way this will instant drop someone" combo.
Bottom line, templates have to be hybrids now to be effective in PvP. This was never the intended case, yet here we are today. If PvP was balanced, then so many people would come back to this game, SO MANY. But instead, we have people from trammie spawner guilds (no offense to anyone, but that is the case on LS at least) who can instant kill people that were widely considered to be a top pvper. If anyone thinks that is right, then you should be playing a FPS.
Anyone who thinks, mistakenly, that tamers are overpowered in PvP should have just been watching the fights on Sonoma tonight.
The largest PvP guild there, COP, was on in full force with their assorted Tamer templates and got absolutely owned by a much smaller and far superior group of true PvPers (vs the pretenders that seem to populate this board). It was an absolute slaughter and damned fun . Every one of them put into stat loss, dead pets..bodies everywhere. It was a glorious site to see and happens any time we get on.
If you are getting owned by any tamer template, you are either not thinking at all (likely) or are just plain bad at PvP (equally probable). I laugh at your PvP skills and all the shedding of tears here.
Can you say Emo?
Laughable but entirely feel sorry for you. Maybe you need to play an easier game. :bowdown:
The largest PvP guild there, COP, was on in full force with their assorted Tamer templates and got absolutely owned by a much smaller and far superior group of true PvPers (vs the pretenders that seem to populate this board). It was an absolute slaughter and damned fun
. Every one of them put into stat loss, dead pets..bodies everywhere. It was a glorious site to see and happens any time we get on.If you are getting owned by any tamer template, you are either not thinking at all (likely) or are just plain bad at PvP (equally probable). I laugh at your PvP skills and all the shedding of tears here.
Can you say Emo?
Laughable but entirely feel sorry for you. Maybe you need to play an easier game. :bowdown:
Maybe Sonoma PvPers just know how NOT to die to a tamer, and thus, making them the best PvPersAnyone who thinks, mistakenly, that tamers are overpowered in PvP should have just been watching the fights on Sonoma tonight.
The largest PvP guild there, COP, was on in full force with their assorted Tamer templates and got absolutely owned by a much smaller and far superior group of true PvPers (vs the pretenders that seem to populate this board). It was an absolute slaughter and damned fun
If you are getting owned by any tamer template, you are either not thinking at all (likely) or are just plain bad at PvP (equally probable). I laugh at your PvP skills and all the shedding of tears here.
Can you say Emo?
Laughable but entirely feel sorry for you. Maybe you need to play an easier game. :bowdown:
While I think the OP is being ridiculous, what I am about to say is not intended to say pets are NOT overpowered, it is just meant to be an answer to your woes. Discord. Discord. DISCORD.
I have a disco tamer that was made for PvM but, due to a guild on Napa currently being comprised TOTALLY of Dread and Cu toting mage weapon templates, she has become my new PvP friend. I run with a Cu, disco their pets and their pet is dead is seconds flat. My husband just made a Disco Dexer - Disco, Music, Fencing, Poisoning, Tactics, Anat, Heal. None of the skill need be over 115, and some are ok at GM. Same deal, disco the pet, poison and kill - same for the tamer.
I have a disco tamer that was made for PvM but, due to a guild on Napa currently being comprised TOTALLY of Dread and Cu toting mage weapon templates, she has become my new PvP friend. I run with a Cu, disco their pets and their pet is dead is seconds flat. My husband just made a Disco Dexer - Disco, Music, Fencing, Poisoning, Tactics, Anat, Heal. None of the skill need be over 115, and some are ok at GM. Same deal, disco the pet, poison and kill - same for the tamer.
V
Vyrquenox
Guest
the overpowered greater dragon, which last couple weeks was being 2 shot killed by an archer. How exactly is it overpowered since everyone with a spine can kill an untamed one if they wish. Where do you think this 5 million gold a week idea fits into anything in an logical way? Are you willing to pay out 5 million gold a week to stealth? Guess what else is there, you say a person with a pet MUST have vet? Well what price do they already pay if they don't? Do you not have a reptile slayer? As time passes a pet should decay and die? So what you are suggesting is that for having a greater dragon or a cu i pay 5 million a week, my pet will die and vanish unless I am there (despite my real life money payment) and also I must spend all my life feeding and telling it it's ok so that it won't go wild, like already was put in the game to mess around with tamers on events.
Get this, 'tamer' is only herespeak, there is not a bloody tamer class. You can have a fighter with a pet, you can cook and clean and have one, you are trying to throw class warfare out in a place where we have templates. How about this, I'll pay 5 million gold a week to have a cu, you lose your bow every time I whack it in two pieces with my sword, and then you talk about logic and rationality.
V
Vyrquenox
Guest
if all that gets said in these forums was true, then I find it fascinating that things supposedly wise and powerful people have said end up endlessly proven false as to what it is I, you, them, or your dog can do. I've been told a dexxer can't fight Oaks, I've been told a tamer is overpowered, I've been told I can't possibly do something so many times by such seasoned and veteran elite's on polar bears who bought their accounts off a dimestore and hit caps lock to talk to me that it is just stupid. You see a tamer with a greater dragon and flip the heck out because the person running that was a jerk, I see an easy fix. Log onto another character. Just because you failed once doesn't mean you always will, and just because your routine didn't work doesn't mean that someone else wasn't adjusting to you. You choose to be in a situation where your whole purpose is to make someone else miserable, then you had best be willing to be made miserable.
M
mr.blackmage
Guest
you said it in your own post, superior pvpers against a large trash guild. And no one has said that there aren't other powerful templates besides tamers either, just less powerful. I bet your team would have slaughtered them if you had their templates.Anyone who thinks, mistakenly, that tamers are overpowered in PvP should have just been watching the fights on Sonoma tonight.
The largest PvP guild there, COP, was on in full force with their assorted Tamer templates and got absolutely owned by a much smaller and far superior group of true PvPers (vs the pretenders that seem to populate this board :bowdown:
V
Vyrquenox
Guest
it all depends on what your definition of the word IS is. The crux of the matter is everyone always wants to have developers change whomever it is they aren't. Or sideline the issue saying they want themselves nerfed up because they are just TOO GOOD at it all. When that isn't the case, and they are smug about the idea they can say "well i did say I needed it too" when they never mean that, they mean "here is my grand experience on a secondary character i don't give a crap about and don't like to play anyway much, and my main goal in life is to get in line to be able to insult someone for losing."
M
mr.blackmage
Guest
I think it's more that people who actually remember what the pvp was like in comparison to what it is now are just asking for more templates to be viable in pvp. Sure there can be power differences, but having chances, whether it being 5% or 50%, of dying instantly or very nearly so, is pretty dumb.
K
Kazumi the Wild
Guest
Well, I've read through this entire thread, and just because we don't have enough already, I'm going to give my opinion...
I am a tamer. I'm also a noob. No, I haven't started playing recently, I've played roughly 3 1/2 years over the last 10. I suck at PvP - in the few times I've ventured into Fel, I was immediately sized up, killed, and had my pets led away.
Based entirely from a noobish perspective...
1. Fix Casting Pets. There's no reason why a pet should be able to hit a player 3 screens away just because they were on screen when it started to cast. That's idiotic. I don't see why this couldn't be changed for PvM either... I know I couldn't begin to count the number of Ebolts that pegged me in the back and killed me off when the monster was literally 2 screens away. Idiocy.
2. Fix Fire Breath. I think, based on the numbers we see people giving, that Fire Breath damage is based off of the Greater Dragon's HP... BEFORE it got those stats halved when it was tamed. I think the most obvious fix for this would simply be to have Fire Breath be based on CURRENT hp levels, rather than its pre-stat loss hp levels. That basically halves the Fire Breath damage, neh?
(Noob moment - Fire Breath was, and still is, based on the monsters HP... right?)
I think anyone who seriously suggests something like "Make stabling 5 mil a week" or "Pets die of old age after 1 week" or "Remove bonding" or "stat points and skill points = 720 between pet and player" really need to consider what the Devs are actually going to SERIOUSLY implement - comments like that do nothing but fan the flames, getting tamers to take serious umbrage and throw out the baby (some great suggestions for fixes to deal with imbalances of power) with the bathwater.
Given the diverse experiences with tamer opponents in PvP, it seems likely to me that tamers are neither so overpowered that a single tamer is "teh unstoppable" without a 3 man gank squad, nor are tamers underpowered such that a tamer with GD isn't a force to be reckoned with - the videos and experiences of many show that, while there are ways to mitigate some aspects, a GD can be the sort of instant-kill that seriously frustrates. Perhaps Dread Mares also need some sort of tweak - i wouldn't know, being neither PvPer nor owner of a dread mare (missed that boat).
Sorry for intruding on the wise, level-headed, constructive discussions of PvPers with more UO experience in their pinkie toe than I'd have were I duped a thousand times. I'll try to stay quiet and keep my crazy ideas to myself from now on. :bowdown:
I am a tamer. I'm also a noob. No, I haven't started playing recently, I've played roughly 3 1/2 years over the last 10. I suck at PvP - in the few times I've ventured into Fel, I was immediately sized up, killed, and had my pets led away.
Based entirely from a noobish perspective...
1. Fix Casting Pets. There's no reason why a pet should be able to hit a player 3 screens away just because they were on screen when it started to cast. That's idiotic. I don't see why this couldn't be changed for PvM either... I know I couldn't begin to count the number of Ebolts that pegged me in the back and killed me off when the monster was literally 2 screens away. Idiocy.
2. Fix Fire Breath. I think, based on the numbers we see people giving, that Fire Breath damage is based off of the Greater Dragon's HP... BEFORE it got those stats halved when it was tamed. I think the most obvious fix for this would simply be to have Fire Breath be based on CURRENT hp levels, rather than its pre-stat loss hp levels. That basically halves the Fire Breath damage, neh?
(Noob moment - Fire Breath was, and still is, based on the monsters HP... right?)
I think anyone who seriously suggests something like "Make stabling 5 mil a week" or "Pets die of old age after 1 week" or "Remove bonding" or "stat points and skill points = 720 between pet and player" really need to consider what the Devs are actually going to SERIOUSLY implement - comments like that do nothing but fan the flames, getting tamers to take serious umbrage and throw out the baby (some great suggestions for fixes to deal with imbalances of power) with the bathwater.
Given the diverse experiences with tamer opponents in PvP, it seems likely to me that tamers are neither so overpowered that a single tamer is "teh unstoppable" without a 3 man gank squad, nor are tamers underpowered such that a tamer with GD isn't a force to be reckoned with - the videos and experiences of many show that, while there are ways to mitigate some aspects, a GD can be the sort of instant-kill that seriously frustrates. Perhaps Dread Mares also need some sort of tweak - i wouldn't know, being neither PvPer nor owner of a dread mare (missed that boat).
Sorry for intruding on the wise, level-headed, constructive discussions of PvPers with more UO experience in their pinkie toe than I'd have were I duped a thousand times. I'll try to stay quiet and keep my crazy ideas to myself from now on. :bowdown:
Archers 2 hit kill a greater...... can you be more ignorant? What kind of archer dish out 1000 damage in two hits? I can tell you at 300% cap DI with dragon slaying bow it still take at least 6 shots to kill a tamed GD and double that for a wild one.
Your GD has 160 max HP or something? Or an archer 2 shot killed your redline GD? Please show me a screenshot of an archer dishing out 400+ dmg shot otherwise please show me a screenshot of a GD with max 160hp.
Also it still takes an archer more than 2 seconds to kill a GD assuming hes doing 400+ (impossible) damage pet shot, and within two second timeframe with good RNG roll the archer will be instant dropped by a GD.
We all know for a fact that GD/Dread instant dropping people with little assistance from the tamer (one that really knows how to play one). So if you can come up with a fact that a solo archer is in fact doing 400+ a hit to a GD will be greatly appreciated. (You do have photoshop right? it will be the only way that you can show us the proof)
Unless you have a really really sh!tty GD w/minimum HP and minimum resist possible across the board that died over 1000 times and has its resist skill dropped to 0 and got cursed by a 120 mage then got discorded by 120 bard then get shot by an archer with 120 anatomy and tactics and 300DI with slayer WITH a necro omen your dragon at perfect timing (EoO do not push you over 300 DI cap) even so I still doubt that your worst GD in UO history can be killed in two shots.
Your GD has 160 max HP or something? Or an archer 2 shot killed your redline GD? Please show me a screenshot of an archer dishing out 400+ dmg shot otherwise please show me a screenshot of a GD with max 160hp.
Also it still takes an archer more than 2 seconds to kill a GD assuming hes doing 400+ (impossible) damage pet shot, and within two second timeframe with good RNG roll the archer will be instant dropped by a GD.
We all know for a fact that GD/Dread instant dropping people with little assistance from the tamer (one that really knows how to play one). So if you can come up with a fact that a solo archer is in fact doing 400+ a hit to a GD will be greatly appreciated. (You do have photoshop right? it will be the only way that you can show us the proof)
Unless you have a really really sh!tty GD w/minimum HP and minimum resist possible across the board that died over 1000 times and has its resist skill dropped to 0 and got cursed by a 120 mage then got discorded by 120 bard then get shot by an archer with 120 anatomy and tactics and 300DI with slayer WITH a necro omen your dragon at perfect timing (EoO do not push you over 300 DI cap) even so I still doubt that your worst GD in UO history can be killed in two shots.
R
RichDC
Guest
Maybe not 2 (btw im not in favour of keeping the firebreath as it is and casting rules should change) but a discod GD will drop to half health fast!!!
Then you only have a max of a 20hp firebreath !
And for a GD to kill some one in 2secs you have to either be:
A)incredibly unlucky!
or
B)increadibly stupid!
Even my tamer when taming in a luck suit with max resist of 50 survives longer than that!
Then you only have a max of a 20hp firebreath !
And for a GD to kill some one in 2secs you have to either be:
A)incredibly unlucky!
or
B)increadibly stupid!
Even my tamer when taming in a luck suit with max resist of 50 survives longer than that!
Skills should never be nerfed, only countered. Nerfing skills to appease whining players is the first sign of an inexperienced dev team.
So, rather than weakening tamers, something should be ADDED to the game that players can use to take down tamers more easily. In that regard, the 'balance' lies in group A's decision to bring a tamer to the fight vs group B's decision to bring the 'counter' or not.
Suggestions:
-Pets *fully* bardable. Perhaps discord/peace have an amplified effect on pets.
-Pets *fully* vulnerable to the *full* effects of WoD even when they're above 30% hp.
-Perhaps make golems do more dmg/take less dmg from pets so they become somewhat usefull anti-tamer tools for all to use.
Just my 0.02
So, rather than weakening tamers, something should be ADDED to the game that players can use to take down tamers more easily. In that regard, the 'balance' lies in group A's decision to bring a tamer to the fight vs group B's decision to bring the 'counter' or not.
Suggestions:
-Pets *fully* bardable. Perhaps discord/peace have an amplified effect on pets.
-Pets *fully* vulnerable to the *full* effects of WoD even when they're above 30% hp.
-Perhaps make golems do more dmg/take less dmg from pets so they become somewhat usefull anti-tamer tools for all to use.
Just my 0.02
You dont know what you are talking about. You can discord the GD anyway you want and its HP will not change which means their fire breathe will still remain at 60-80hp assuming you have a dragon with 1000+ hp after buff.
You do not know how discord works it seems and I am too lazy to explain.
R
RichDC
Guest
And you dont read properly!!!
I didnt say that discording a GD lowers its health (re-read!!!)
I said that a discorded GD will DROP TO half health quick!!
Meaning (because im sure you still wont understand) a discod GD drops resistances and skills, making it take more damage and easier to hit thus LOSING health faster, thus in turn dropping the strength of firebreath.
I know full well how disco works using it in training MANY times and having seen the effects in the field MANY times.
Next time read a post before you start ranting about what people do and dont know you just make yourself look stupid
I didnt say that discording a GD lowers its health (re-read!!!)
I said that a discorded GD will DROP TO half health quick!!
Meaning (because im sure you still wont understand) a discod GD drops resistances and skills, making it take more damage and easier to hit thus LOSING health faster, thus in turn dropping the strength of firebreath.
I know full well how disco works using it in training MANY times and having seen the effects in the field MANY times.
Next time read a post before you start ranting about what people do and dont know you just make yourself look stupid
Y
Yalp
Guest
So you're gonna tell me what I saw in a public video and then insult me? Claim you weren't there then tell me intimate details of the fight? Hmm.. me thinks you lie sir. Until you can actually engage in dialogue free of personal smears and attacks.. you're not worthy of my time.
Wow...WarUltimate. I really think you need to come down off your soapbox and start looking for a game you can actually play. One that fits more into your style of playing and level of expertise. It is obvious, after looking at your post history, that UO is probably just too hard for you. 
You seem to have a long history of complaining about pretty much everything and any template out there that you are not able to beat on whatever template you are currently playing on. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be many templates (in the PvP world) that you actually can beat (based on your posting history). If you believed someone when they told you that the cook/ herder template rocked in PvP... I am sorry... but they lied to you.
Believe me, I am sorry you are getting owned son (by pretty much everything from the looks of it) but realistically..maybe it is time to just look at something that is easier. Your history of complaint posting is approaching legendary. You do know that you do not HAVE to play UO? I am truly and sincerely sorry if your self esteem is being damaged by everyone else's template easily killing you but it is your own fault. Thinking and learning are an individual's responsibility, NOT a group or developer's responsibility.
Take a look at the posts in this thread. Remove your own and the rest of the usual bandwagon brigade kids and you will see that most everyone is telling you, and the Op, that you are just plain wrong. Take this to heart and make a decision to either be smarter in your game play or... find something else to do. I am sure you would do well in ...oh..well..maybe a role player's guild? I hear they have very strict rules on how and what you can do in a given fight scenario. You may find this easier, as there is really not much to think about. Just show up and follow the script.
Anyways, I am done with posting in this thread. I like a harder game and am fine with tamers, pets, dexers, archers, mages...whatever..just as they are. They are all easy kills and pose no trouble at all. Every one of their templates are easy faction points and guaranteed insurance in my bank box. I even like it when they kill me once in a while. Always winning is boring. I calculate my PvP success by being able to kill a hell of a lot more of them than they do me.
Might I recommend a template for you that will save you money in tissue purchases, when confronted by a tamer template? Try a fighting Bard against tamer templates. Any of the fighting bard templates will do. They are easy to build, altho they do require some thinking while you fight. If this part of PvP causes you stress, I am sure there are a few folks here who would happily give you some PvP tips and hints and I am sure there is someone on your shard that would step up and give you some lessons on how to really PvP.
The key to good long term PvP is be prepared and be able to think on your feet. Having only one template, and playing only it, dooms you to this kind of thinking you currently have. Have multiple templates and be able to assess what template is needed for any given situation. You get a lot more entertainment for your account dollars that way, as well.
As far as this game goes, that is the best advise I can give you son. Good Luck.
:bowdown:
You seem to have a long history of complaining about pretty much everything and any template out there that you are not able to beat on whatever template you are currently playing on. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be many templates (in the PvP world) that you actually can beat (based on your posting history). If you believed someone when they told you that the cook/ herder template rocked in PvP... I am sorry... but they lied to you.
Believe me, I am sorry you are getting owned son (by pretty much everything from the looks of it) but realistically..maybe it is time to just look at something that is easier. Your history of complaint posting is approaching legendary. You do know that you do not HAVE to play UO? I am truly and sincerely sorry if your self esteem is being damaged by everyone else's template easily killing you but it is your own fault. Thinking and learning are an individual's responsibility, NOT a group or developer's responsibility.
Take a look at the posts in this thread. Remove your own and the rest of the usual bandwagon brigade kids and you will see that most everyone is telling you, and the Op, that you are just plain wrong. Take this to heart and make a decision to either be smarter in your game play or... find something else to do. I am sure you would do well in ...oh..well..maybe a role player's guild? I hear they have very strict rules on how and what you can do in a given fight scenario. You may find this easier, as there is really not much to think about. Just show up and follow the script.
Anyways, I am done with posting in this thread. I like a harder game and am fine with tamers, pets, dexers, archers, mages...whatever..just as they are. They are all easy kills and pose no trouble at all. Every one of their templates are easy faction points and guaranteed insurance in my bank box. I even like it when they kill me once in a while. Always winning is boring. I calculate my PvP success by being able to kill a hell of a lot more of them than they do me.
Might I recommend a template for you that will save you money in tissue purchases, when confronted by a tamer template? Try a fighting Bard against tamer templates. Any of the fighting bard templates will do. They are easy to build, altho they do require some thinking while you fight. If this part of PvP causes you stress, I am sure there are a few folks here who would happily give you some PvP tips and hints and I am sure there is someone on your shard that would step up and give you some lessons on how to really PvP.
The key to good long term PvP is be prepared and be able to think on your feet. Having only one template, and playing only it, dooms you to this kind of thinking you currently have. Have multiple templates and be able to assess what template is needed for any given situation. You get a lot more entertainment for your account dollars that way, as well.
As far as this game goes, that is the best advise I can give you son. Good Luck.
:bowdown:
H
Harb
Guest
Boy has this thread gotten long, and covers everthing from evolution to the 2008 election. I posted earlier in this thread, but as I've continued reading, thought I'd add a couple observations.
As the OP began, tamers are indeed very powerful, and comparitively overpowered in the PvP context (we can debate PvM another day). I play tamers, and agree with the OPs base premise. Of my three tamers, only one is geared for PvP, as an archer/ tamer. Unlike many, this character has a little over 220 skill points in taming/ lore and will ultimatley be at 240. None of this includes item based skill, but in my observations, this isn't the norm. On my guy in particular, I opt for HCI/ DCI/ DI and dex, as the taming piece is secondary to his combat skills.
On the other extreme, should one desire and have access to unlimited higher end items, you can play a fully capable "tamer" with as few as 75 points commited in actual skill, and you can easily reach 75 skill points the day the character is created. This is due to the formula for checks/ commands. Between a mask, talisman, a ring and bracelet with +15 taming and as much lore as possible, 75 actual skill points of taming becomes 120. That 120 points counts for 80% of command checks, lore accounting for the other 20%. The mask and talisman add 15 points of lore, and with 12 or 13 points of lore on each piece of jewelry, you've got 40 free points in lore. That'll round checks off to 104, adequate for any of the PvP desireable pets.
Now, I don't/ won't advocate eliminating item skill properties. I don't believe the answer lies in nerfing a skill, skill set, or the tools (pets in this case) associated to any set (GDs are a minor exception, their breath attack is too high vs. players). But seriously, 75 points of skill, relative to employed strength, is more than slightly misalligned.
I spoke to herding back in post 139 of this thread, and won't cover that ground again, but it seems to me that the first step for a solution is recalibrating command/ loyalty checks. While it probably doesn't need to be linear, lore playing a increased role inherently ups committed skill requirement. If a third skill is added, it reinforces the same theme. Again though, with the unequalled popularity of taming, whatever is done can not be a class "nerf" in the more widely played aspects of the game environment.
As the OP began, tamers are indeed very powerful, and comparitively overpowered in the PvP context (we can debate PvM another day). I play tamers, and agree with the OPs base premise. Of my three tamers, only one is geared for PvP, as an archer/ tamer. Unlike many, this character has a little over 220 skill points in taming/ lore and will ultimatley be at 240. None of this includes item based skill, but in my observations, this isn't the norm. On my guy in particular, I opt for HCI/ DCI/ DI and dex, as the taming piece is secondary to his combat skills.
On the other extreme, should one desire and have access to unlimited higher end items, you can play a fully capable "tamer" with as few as 75 points commited in actual skill, and you can easily reach 75 skill points the day the character is created. This is due to the formula for checks/ commands. Between a mask, talisman, a ring and bracelet with +15 taming and as much lore as possible, 75 actual skill points of taming becomes 120. That 120 points counts for 80% of command checks, lore accounting for the other 20%. The mask and talisman add 15 points of lore, and with 12 or 13 points of lore on each piece of jewelry, you've got 40 free points in lore. That'll round checks off to 104, adequate for any of the PvP desireable pets.
Now, I don't/ won't advocate eliminating item skill properties. I don't believe the answer lies in nerfing a skill, skill set, or the tools (pets in this case) associated to any set (GDs are a minor exception, their breath attack is too high vs. players). But seriously, 75 points of skill, relative to employed strength, is more than slightly misalligned.
I spoke to herding back in post 139 of this thread, and won't cover that ground again, but it seems to me that the first step for a solution is recalibrating command/ loyalty checks. While it probably doesn't need to be linear, lore playing a increased role inherently ups committed skill requirement. If a third skill is added, it reinforces the same theme. Again though, with the unequalled popularity of taming, whatever is done can not be a class "nerf" in the more widely played aspects of the game environment.
B
Brian Bóruma
Guest
Back in 2001 I used to PvP. I lived in Fel and PvP'ed with a bunch of friends that also PK'd and such I had a red and I used a tamer and a dragon. I sucked at PvP but I tried and had fun, while the fun lasted. Once item based UO came and skills were replaced with uber items and armor and such I turned into a trammie. But I still like to try to PvP so....
I took my tamer and Greater Dragon to Yew gate a few months ago. I had my uber all 70's 3/6 casting suit my fully trained greater dragon dam I looked cool. I arrived and I promptly sicked him on a red and before I knew it my uber overpowered tamer was taking a dirt nap and my dragon promptly joined me.
Honestly Greater Dragons overpowered? Please show me how?? I can go to Yew Gate Fel and survive with my Legendary archer. My Legendary Tamer took a legendary dirt nap in 7 seconds flat.
I took my tamer and Greater Dragon to Yew gate a few months ago. I had my uber all 70's 3/6 casting suit my fully trained greater dragon dam I looked cool. I arrived and I promptly sicked him on a red and before I knew it my uber overpowered tamer was taking a dirt nap and my dragon promptly joined me.
Honestly Greater Dragons overpowered? Please show me how?? I can go to Yew Gate Fel and survive with my Legendary archer. My Legendary Tamer took a legendary dirt nap in 7 seconds flat.
Of course, the whole item thing depends on how you think you should be able to use a skill. I expect that if my spellweaver is going to cast word of death, she'll need to train. I don't look for the nearest vendor, I go out and train the skill. Tamers are one class who can rely greatly on skill items without compromising their strength as other classes would. They can be well protected behind a pet to the point where a flimsy luck suit is ok on them, yet would be suicide for anyone else. In short, The tamer is powerful, their items can reduce the need for real skill and the pet protects them from the penalties that keep check on other skills who might otherwise do the same. My warriors can't accommodate twinking into their kit and still defend themselves as efficiently, but I could twink a tamer up and hide behind her GD if I chose. There isn't a balance to the skill items on a tamer like there is for other classes, which in my view should be changed. Somehow. Anyhow!
And it's also worth pointing out that a tamer with 85 skill can control 2 bake kitsune. You can PvP just fine with those (I've seen and done it myself and if I wanted a full PvP tamer those are my pets of choice) Bakes can PvM in a whole host of places, and a little training to GM taming adds in even more pet options. My younger tamer has 97.6 taming now, she controls a mare and beetle, hiryu and her kitsune. That's a pretty good set of pets for a char who hasn't hit GM yet. Training takes time, but look at the end power
I'm not sure about raising the skill requirement for control, because all the taming skills can be boosted with items. And you don't really need more than 110 for good pet control etc, often a lot less (see the paragraph above this). There would be nothing preventing a tamer from boosting their taming up to 120 to tame a pet, then putting on his other jewels to control and work with that pet in the dungeon. The last change in control requirements made a difference, but it hasn't done enough. So that's one reason why I don't believe that another gentler bump is enough. But look at the sampire change - a lot of teeth gnashing went on, but players adapted to it. Ok some probably went by the wayside, but tamers are the same. If we could adapt to stable slots and control slots, I'm certain we can adapt to vet skill for bonding or skill items being removed. Though I fully understand that my views are controversial and I don't expect anyone's agreement on them hehe.
And apologies for the long post, I had meant that to be a lot shorter lol.
Wenchy
And it's also worth pointing out that a tamer with 85 skill can control 2 bake kitsune. You can PvP just fine with those (I've seen and done it myself and if I wanted a full PvP tamer those are my pets of choice) Bakes can PvM in a whole host of places, and a little training to GM taming adds in even more pet options. My younger tamer has 97.6 taming now, she controls a mare and beetle, hiryu and her kitsune. That's a pretty good set of pets for a char who hasn't hit GM yet. Training takes time, but look at the end power
I'm not sure about raising the skill requirement for control, because all the taming skills can be boosted with items. And you don't really need more than 110 for good pet control etc, often a lot less (see the paragraph above this). There would be nothing preventing a tamer from boosting their taming up to 120 to tame a pet, then putting on his other jewels to control and work with that pet in the dungeon. The last change in control requirements made a difference, but it hasn't done enough. So that's one reason why I don't believe that another gentler bump is enough. But look at the sampire change - a lot of teeth gnashing went on, but players adapted to it. Ok some probably went by the wayside, but tamers are the same. If we could adapt to stable slots and control slots, I'm certain we can adapt to vet skill for bonding or skill items being removed. Though I fully understand that my views are controversial and I don't expect anyone's agreement on them hehe.
And apologies for the long post, I had meant that to be a lot shorter lol.
Wenchy
G
Goodoljoe
Guest
I think +taming jewelry was a mistake,specially with the new 85 skill char tokens they sell now they put one day newbs with GD on the streets now.If not take away skill jewel for tame,at least make it have some drawbacks.And I am tamer so my views are not biased
H
Harb
Guest
I'm not really sure this is the proper direction, and if chosen as a corrective measure, would strongly recommend against a "blanket" removal, as folks actually have time/ effort vested in the few masks that exist and to a lesser extent the more common talismen. Removing the two skills from rings and bracelets may work, but as earleir, anything that takes away from things players have legitimately done or find value from may be best left alone.I think +taming jewelry was a mistake,specially with the new 85 skill char tokens they sell now they put one day newbs with GD on the streets now.If not take away skill jewel for tame,at least make it have some drawbacks.And I am tamer so my views are not biased
I don't think a linear adjustment will work (e.g 50% taming, 30% lore, 20% herding (see earlier post (#139 this thread))). In the game, really only three things happen, you kill/ survive/ produce. Taming, as a single skill with minimal investment, strides at the top of the perch in the two related to adventuring or dueling. It'll take some work and substantial testing, but we have seen good developmental work from the team of late (I didn't say communication, marketing, support, etc), and my bet is that they can/ should get this one right!
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
Once upon a time, embracing your honor or using the faction power "monster ignore" (Siege only) protected you not only from monsters but from pets too.
Someone at EA decided that was overpowered even though honor only lasts a short while and removed the feature.
That was at the same time that the new potions (e.g. conflags) were introduced.
There was a design to implement a potion called "Mask of Death". This potion was supposed to take the place of honor and monster ignore and provide temporary protection from pets.
It never made it onto the shards.
So, what happened was that they removed the two ways to temporarily avoid pet damage while failing to offer any alternative. To compound the problem, new more powerful pets were introduced which have now culminated in the GD.
Add in the problem that now pets actually obey commands.
Pets are overpowered. It isn't a question. The question is how many silly, unneeded changes they are going to make to UO while allowing this imbalance to continue to drive away players.
I haven't played in months. I got tired of :
1. Not being able to see my opponents (because on Siege hide/stealth is god mode)
2. Having invisible people sick their 1000 point, bleeding, crushing, 5 screen casting, killing machines on me.
That is not fun.
Edit: Here is the link to the 32nd publish if you want to see the plan.
http://www.redeyeballs.com/uo/2005_04_01_archive.html
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Not sure the mechanics behind it, but I think jewels should be usable to tame a creature, but they should not factor into controlling them.
G
Goodoljoe
Guest
I think what morgana says is reasonable,theres also point of people who paid lots of milions for taming masks and what not,but that didnt stop devs from nerfing sampires,people also paid milions for those necro masks...
H
Harb
Guest
You'd have to have been around for quite a while to rmember, but pre-publish 16 my wife and I had become die hard bards in the PvM context, like many others. P16 was extremely well handled, implemented, explained and adjusted, but served as the only "true nerf" our little world/ game has ever really seen. Despite best efforts and intent, the result wasn't good. We lost more players following that publish than at any time following the introduction of the Tram rules set. Players simply do not take it very well when something they enjoy is fundamentally changed to the "lesser." Tamers, much of it due to the inherent inequity, are the class of favor amoung many, many active players. It's for this reason that any change, and in this case a needed change, be very "delicately" implemented. The game isn't postured today to accept an exodus, regardless of scale.
As for the necro changes, my sampire suffered not in the least. That adjustment was done to correct a known/ manipulated oversight. Skill caps are skill caps, abilities/ effects require skill, etc. In a way, as long as that theme is balanced against surviveability/ destructive power of pets relative to skill, we'll all be just fine
U
UOKaiser
Guest
As express the needed change is on siege only. The production shard people who want change are against tamers or really are horrible pvp players. Only siege is needed a change thats it because of obvious reasons. The siege nerf crowd is getting mixed up in the production shard. I hope dev realize this hell we all can realize this make changes to siege but leave the production shards alone. Dont cave in to the revenge of the other classes. Only siege have real grievence. No production fel players has a case against easy to kill GD in the production shards unless they decide gm armor and a gm katana is enough for them to kill a gd which it aint and no sane production pvp will run around in that armor expecting to win.
I think the masks etc could just have different skills put on them, or other useful mods so they'd have value, just not for a tamer. But yeah, it didn't deter the devs with the sampire thing.
I wouldn't mind if items were useful while a tamer was training so it helped them tame high end critters, but to bond, control or stable that pet, should require real skill if you want tamers to bother training. At least that's my feeling. I think there should be some enthusiasm for training aside from getting a new title and being able to change the skill items out
I think control should come from taming and lore, bonding and resurrection from the lore with vet and stable slots from tame, lore and vet. Much as I love my herding, I'm not sure that I'd suggest tamers need it for anything major. A modest boost to pack hit points perhaps, as you'd expect a group which was guided by a shepherd to be kept together better and thus be harder to pick off. Or it enables the shepherd to set a pack leader who is then given a boost to HPs or something. I'm waffling right off topic, but I think herding should relate to groups of animals in some ways rather than be an essential for tamers. I use the skill almost daily, and to me it has a stack of perks already, even if it's very under used.
Was gonna waffle some more about other taming balance, but I think I'll start repeating myself if I do lol.
Wenchy
I wouldn't mind if items were useful while a tamer was training so it helped them tame high end critters, but to bond, control or stable that pet, should require real skill if you want tamers to bother training. At least that's my feeling. I think there should be some enthusiasm for training aside from getting a new title and being able to change the skill items out
I think control should come from taming and lore, bonding and resurrection from the lore with vet and stable slots from tame, lore and vet. Much as I love my herding, I'm not sure that I'd suggest tamers need it for anything major. A modest boost to pack hit points perhaps, as you'd expect a group which was guided by a shepherd to be kept together better and thus be harder to pick off. Or it enables the shepherd to set a pack leader who is then given a boost to HPs or something. I'm waffling right off topic, but I think herding should relate to groups of animals in some ways rather than be an essential for tamers. I use the skill almost daily, and to me it has a stack of perks already, even if it's very under used.
Was gonna waffle some more about other taming balance, but I think I'll start repeating myself if I do lol.
Wenchy
A
Azmira Zalof
Guest
Everyone saying a greater dragon isn't overpowered is either
a) blind.
b) a GD tamer.
c) ********, stop drooling on your keyboard.
Any tamer that knows what they're doing can stand their own vs. 2-3 people with the right equipment. Just because 2-3 people CAN kill a tamer isn't the argument. The insane amounts of pet vs. player damage IS the problem. Anyone claiming that these new high end tameables aren't overpowered vs. players is the intellectual equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!".
FACTS:
-Greater dragons can have over 1000 hp. The average pvper has 100-135 hp.
-Greater dragons can out damage any other template out there (40-50 damage melee + bleed and 45-65 dragon breath). Second closest is a max damage archer using concussion blow, but even then, they can't match the DPS (damage per second) a greater dragon can.
ex. An archer with 180 stamina and a 40 ssi crossbow swings once every 2.25 seconds. A concussion bow with hit lightning will do about 50-60 damage vs. 70 physical. (Side note: I also think concussion archers do excessive amounts of damage).
A dragon, with 125 dex, can reach the wrestling swing cap (once every 1.25 seconds) without doing anything. A dragon can also melee, bleed (in the same hit) and instantly cast/fireball. So the damage potential goes from straight melee (40-50) to melee + firebreath (40-50 + 45-65).
-Greater Dragons can fireball for 45-65 vs. 70 FIRE RESIST. This can be done from several screens away, as has been documented numerous times in this thread. Thus, the standard tamer logic "JUST RUN AWAY!!111" does not apply.
It's simple facts. Dragons do too much damage in PVP. (<---- Read: player vs. player). This is a simple fix. Hard caps on pet damage vs. players. 35 damage melee cap and 35 or so damage firebreath cap. That isn't ridiculous. Works for armor ignore, and there are plenty of people still using composite bows.
a) blind.
b) a GD tamer.
c) ********, stop drooling on your keyboard.
Any tamer that knows what they're doing can stand their own vs. 2-3 people with the right equipment. Just because 2-3 people CAN kill a tamer isn't the argument. The insane amounts of pet vs. player damage IS the problem. Anyone claiming that these new high end tameables aren't overpowered vs. players is the intellectual equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!".
FACTS:
-Greater dragons can have over 1000 hp. The average pvper has 100-135 hp.
-Greater dragons can out damage any other template out there (40-50 damage melee + bleed and 45-65 dragon breath). Second closest is a max damage archer using concussion blow, but even then, they can't match the DPS (damage per second) a greater dragon can.
ex. An archer with 180 stamina and a 40 ssi crossbow swings once every 2.25 seconds. A concussion bow with hit lightning will do about 50-60 damage vs. 70 physical. (Side note: I also think concussion archers do excessive amounts of damage).
A dragon, with 125 dex, can reach the wrestling swing cap (once every 1.25 seconds) without doing anything. A dragon can also melee, bleed (in the same hit) and instantly cast/fireball. So the damage potential goes from straight melee (40-50) to melee + firebreath (40-50 + 45-65).
-Greater Dragons can fireball for 45-65 vs. 70 FIRE RESIST. This can be done from several screens away, as has been documented numerous times in this thread. Thus, the standard tamer logic "JUST RUN AWAY!!111" does not apply.
It's simple facts. Dragons do too much damage in PVP. (<---- Read: player vs. player). This is a simple fix. Hard caps on pet damage vs. players. 35 damage melee cap and 35 or so damage firebreath cap. That isn't ridiculous. Works for armor ignore, and there are plenty of people still using composite bows.