Popping In To Say Hi

[UODevTracker]

Original Thread

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[TheGrimmOmen]

Hey Everyone!

I just wanted to pop in to say "hello". I haven't posted here in a while and hope you are all doing well.

Cheers,
Grimmy

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Are you the guy responsible for the art in SA? Any explanations?

We're about to organize a rabble!

Oh! I LOVE raffles! ;-)

Oh, and as far as the first item in your post, if you have specific questions, I might be able to answer them. However, before you or anyone for that matter takes the time to write them out, please make sure your time is not spent in vain and ask genuine questions, not thinly or completely unveiled griefs. It'd be a waste of your time as I will not respond. As anyone who's read my posts on this board knows, as long as the intent is genuine, I do my best to respond to all constructive critiques positive and negative.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Better than waffles?

Ohhh, that's a tough one. I'll get back to you on that.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

HEH... who would imagine you could still have a sense of humor?

My question concerns Legacy vs non-Legacy graphics. How "difficult" is it to have both and to maintain updates and content changes for both?

If it is easy to do, such as pushing a button to run a conversion macro, I say let us have the option. If it will take a considerable effort every time there is a content change, I suggest eliminating one, even if it is not my first choice.

"We at the Federal Bureau of Investigations do not have a sense of humor that we are aware of."

Wow. Good question. Well, firstly, we've have truly phenomenal support from engineering without them the prospect of supporting the two clients at all would be enough to make me take "the blue pill". But, thanks to engineering, as far as animations go, engineering has made significant improvements to the legacy client animation system which, coupled significant upgrades to the animation pipeline, makes supporting the 2 clients with animations practically seamless. There is still quite a few difficulties, but we're unraveling those kinks as we go. As far as the UOSA client supporting both types of animation systems, well even from just the art perspective, that's a rather daunting task, but not insurmountable. It's a good suggestion and we'll keep it mind.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

A simple question, the majority of complaints are about the graphics in SA, are the graphics we're seeing on the beta the final product or are they going to be worked on?

Another good question. The term "graphics" encompasses a lot. "I don't like how <fill in the blank>" provides a direction to the conversation. To quote the Middleman, "Specificity is at the heart of good communication."

And, "graphics" in general is constantly being worked on.

Cheers,
Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

So, our griefs are not important? We're not "genuine" when it's just a gripe?

You guys need to get your heads out'a yer you know whatsies. Your game is barely played except when there's a new uber to get, and even then you sub rate is very low, and sliding downwards. If you didn't have housing, you wouldn't be here anymore. Yet you have to take the time to reply like that? An edit, even.

I know, I know, you won't reply. It's .

Perhaps we have a conflict of terminology. Allow me to provide my subjective examples:

Gripes:"I don't like how <XXX> looks because..." or "Why did you guys do <XXXX>, I like the old way better because..."

Griefs: "You guys need to get your heads out'a yer you know whatsies..."

<Although I'm totally making that grief comment up. I can't imagine anyone saying something like that.>

Gripes can be constructive, and provide valuable feedback. I see griefs as dead end comments designed to be wholly unproductive aside from allowing someone to vent anger.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

I've been making the suggestion of putting in the KR art for the legacy worlds; aka for whats been created and going from there with the new art. KR got the toggle for 2D, it really is only fair that SA gets the toggle for KR art.

Excellent suggestion. I'll remember it.

Cheers,
Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Nice to see you around again Grimm.

While it's surely a daunting task, I would like to see all of the art redrawn in "HD" and incorporated into the game, even if it's a few items at a time. Does your new art "pipeline" allow for easy easy additions and/or replacements for item art? I realize the personnel pipeline may not at this time. I would love to have my cake and eat it to so to speak... an updated (graphically) UO client that still looks and feels like the original game.

Also, are there more legacy styled gumps coming? Books, spell/runebooks come to mind off the top of my head.

We've talked about adding more legacy styled GUMPs, but this is something we'll tackle as time permits. We've also discussed the possibility of providing higher resolution animations at a later date, but right now that's kind of on the shelf due to more pressing matters.

Cheers,
Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

currently i use giftboxes to store those hard to see items as was white background is there any way to get some item in sa that we can store like blackrock cloak of death etc in the backpack graphic drives my nutsfor some items. and i truely like the grid and would like it more if could make bigger or white hehe

I think this falls into the "hard to see items" category. i hadn't thought of changing the backpack background, but I'll remember it as an option. Thanks!

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

...

Grimm, you can see a sample of my critiques in this post in another thread.

For me a LOT of my graphical gripes would be solved with a KR High Res Graphics option for SA. That way people can tailor the SA client to what their system can handle.

Not everyone is still using a computer system from 2003 and not all of us had graphical performance issues with KR. We would like the option, the choice to be able to continue to utilize the newer, higher resolution graphics.

You're point is well taken Dermott. As you know, our big thing was stability, everything we add after that is icing. We're always looking into way to improve quality while trying to maintain stability and accessability.

-GrimmOmen

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Hi Grimm,
SA is looking great. Best of both world and I'm sure that was hard to do.

Would be great if you can make the items look larger in the containers and in the paperdoll slots. Like Zodia shows in her post... many things are tiny in the boxes.

Question.. will vendor bags always be freeform view? I'm guessing for compatability purposes, right?

Question 2... Will you be putting the KR crafting menu back? I found the KR menu is much easier. I love the make x amount. I also like how when you chose the item you want to craft, it shows the item right there on the same menu with details rather than 2D's way of clicking View to see the success rate and how many ingots to make.

I happen to like the KR paperdolls. Just need more poses and faces and tatoos.

Thanks Hildebrand, we're really working hard to blend both worlds better!!

Question 1: Engineering and Design worked together to determine how vendor bags would be implemented. I'm sure that they are the way they are for good reason, but if it's just s matter of not having the different view style implemented yet, I know one of them has that task in the back of thier head, and hopefully will have to time to implement it. If not, well, those people are like coding Veloceraptors.... "... they remembaaa...."

Question 2: I think that if we get enough feedback to support it, then it'll most likely come up. I don't know if it's scheduled for this release, but as you know we're constantly implementing player feedback even between major publishes.

Best,
GrimmOmen

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Grimm, did you make sure to take your tylenol after putting the SA client up for beta?

My question is this: Alot of people expect graphics like that found in other modern morphs. However, is EA willing to put that much money into this game?

I think SA Looks promising. I've been playing it quite a bit over the past month, and besides some small problems the client is very stable.

So continue the good work!

BTW: Whoever did the spell special animations gets two thumbs up. When someone is hit with a flamestrike I absolutely love it.

I'm really glad you've had such a positive experience! As for the money issue, what I can say is that Mythic as provided UO with tremendous support.

Oh yea - and the animator (Stu "Grumpy") responsible for those animations is no longer with us -in a business sense. But, yes, he's a great animator.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Maybe Grimm can explain how certain weapons have been floating out of hands since day one of KR and it's STILL not fixed.

Well, here's some data you might find interesting:

#of assets processed during the course of UOSA developement: 795.
# of animations processed during UOSA developement: 27,528.
# of finalized frames of animation processed during UOSA developement: 1,326,685.
# Time it would take to watch all the UO animation frames in a theater: 15.4 hours.

Other things to note:
- all assets have been processed several time over.
- These number are POST optimization, meaning that many assets are not using the full compliment of frames - if they did you could probably double the # of rendered frames.

Sooo, I miss a few sometimes. But it doesn't mean I don't care! But we'll get em!

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

I've always been a hard core 2D fan, but I've been playing around with SA and it's beginning to kinda grow on me as I pick through it and learn it. The only thing I would wish changed are the colours. They look much drabber and less intense in SA than in 2D.
Is there a way the user can change this, will the devs/artists/whoeverdoesit change this or are we stuck with less depth to the colours in SA?

BTW Grimmy, you're definitely one of my favourites!! The best dog I ever owned or WILL ever own was nicknamed Grimmy, lol (Grimley).

Are you referring to the colors of the UI? We were really going for something more subdued, with a nod to the legacy UI by sticking with predominantly stone with gold and silver embellishments.

Thanks for the kind words, and that's an awesome name for a dog.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

It must suck to draw a whole game's worth of new art for a "graphical upgrade" and then have it all basically thrown in the trash in favor of sprites from 1997. Then again, how was anyone supposed to have a pentagram or abbatoir in their house and not laugh themselves hoarse at the silly perspective errors, among other things?

Actually, it does. But being a professional game artist means that you have to look at it as an opportunity to learn, and do your best to grow even from your failures.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Good to see you.

Always good to see you Crysta!!! Hope all is well!

-Grimmy

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Hi Grimmy! *waves wildly*

NOK! Good to see you!!!

-Grimmy

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Grim, a few things:

1. How soon can we expect the "running animation" for Dawn's music box in SA? Currently, you start it playing and it disappears until it goes back to the static.

2. for 2D, any chance of a robe graphic fix for the neck area? Even with armor and gorget underneath, you get a band of flesh around the neck area that the armor DOESN'T show. The only way to hide it is to wear a fancy or regular shirt of the same colora as the robe.

3. (not uo related) - you ever gonna level that D&D: Tiny Adventures character on Facebook? It's been sitting at 4500 XP from retirement while you've been hard at work on SA, and I've now got 7 generations on you, after starting much after you.

Hello!
1. It doesn't do that? I wasn't a part of the environments team, so I wasn't aware of that. Please send that in as a bug (if you haven't already) I'll see what I can see on this side.
2. 2D fixes are much more involved than SA art fixes. It most likely will not be for a while given our current workload.
3. HA! Ok, now I feel bad for Earstblood. I'll go get him going! Thanks - the last thing I need is a dragonborn character angry at me.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Ah.... my question as well, I feel the current male paperdoll just doesn't do my character justice. He looks far more old feeble and well... not very "buff" compared to the 2d doll. After all my character is a warrior, who uses his bow quite often and I would think you would need a whole lot more upper body strength to use on than the current doll alludes to.

As well I still wonder if you could perhaps make the SA paperdoll smaller? I know there is a slider for the scale of the UI but unless you can scale each piece separately it doesn't really help. I've found if I scale the paperdoll to a more manageable size then the map and the er.... macro bar as well as the options bar are way too small for me to be comfortable with. I really have no need for my paperdoll to be quite so large. If it were say 33% smaller that would be preferable.

And I wanted to say by the way that my ethereal horse looks way cool in SA as does the brazier. Though in comparison the brazier with it's very refined hot coals look makes the fire pit pale in comparison. Though I do like the smoke effects of both.

You and I have similar feelings about the paperdoll. I know that we want to update the male paperdolls, but I'm not sure of where that is in our scheduling.

I'm really glad you like the Ethereal horse, actually, it's current state is the result of another artists work, Mike. I'll pass on your compliments to him!!

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Do not feel his "failure" as the CG supervisor was because of "poor work" as you are seemingly trying to insinuate. The art work on KR was very visually pleasing, even with the few minor offsets, which are not completely due to the art team as it does take multiple teams to get that right, perhaps the art was flawless and the engineering team failed to code its "placement" right? Granted, not the most likely case and I am using the word placement loosely, if you do not know what I mean then just never mind.

And by minor offsets, I actually mean offsets. And I actually do mean minor, generally.

On the rider offset note, the rider offsets are in the works to get fixed, so don't worry, that's a pretty high priority for us.

Contrary to Canary's belief, I'm not "in charge" of art. Anything that you guys bring up that I think is a good idea, I have to submit to the Art Director and Producer for approval. And then we have to see where it lies in our priorities,and honestly, right now, we're very, very, busy.

For general information (again), I was the character lead for UOKR, and about 50% of the creatures for UOSA. Where we are now in regards to the quality of characters is miles above where we were in UOSE and UOML. Now there are always instances where you wished certain things came out better or differently than they did, but generally speaking, things are waaay better.

Oh, CG Supervisor is a technical position. I manage the art tools and art development pipeline.

Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

HAH! Glad to hear about all the things you guys are working on fixing, but I was not worried at all. I was simply defending you, if his statement was even close to being true or not (the bit about you being in charge is what I mean by him being wrong, but then again I think his whole post was wrong.) I really get upset when people try to attack you guys in anyway. Any how, happy about the rider offsets, happy with the SA client in general, and happy to see someone answering all the questions in here.

Thanks, cloak - all the way around.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

And here I was, thinking you quit coz I reached gen 2 before you But it also means you're probably hard at work!

LOL - No, but that didn't help.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Haha, the reply can be taken in 2 ways you know -

1) "No, your getting to gen 2 had nothing to do with it"

2) "No, I wasn't hard at work"


BTW, what do you think about adding toggles for legacy terrain/creature art? Is it possible? Or will it bloat up the client install too much?

I think it would be pretty cool. Not very easy from a technical side, but cool. I have to say I'm with Supreeme on this, I think it would be great as an optional download, but I'm not sure about it coming with SA by default.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Ok let me rephrase that.

Due to your poor design work and insistence on the look of things, we are left with a visually underwhelming client. You supported the 'blurry' look of KA as well as the bad, mediocre animation (as you have defended both on stratics). As one of the 2 Art Leads, it was YOUR job to ensure and put out a quality product for the producer... which you failed to do. Your lack of quality is what led to the general dismissal of the KR client by the vast majority of players.

Please don't try to pawn it off on only the producer when it was YOUR hands it passed through. That's pretty pathetic.

Canary,
This will be my last acknowledgment/response to you. It's obvious to me that you are very disappointed in many aspects of UOSA, not the least of which is graphics, and despite you being rude, disrespectful, and purposfully misinterpretive, it still matters to me. Graphics quality is a constant, never changing priority for me and the team as a whole, and we will strive to continue to improve them.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Agreed.

On the positive side; this client is very stable right now.

Maybe if it stays this way we might get an option for high res graphics.

Exactly. Establish a baseline, then progress from there.